Pocket Caches are Back?

[+drat19]

Oh oh Drat. . . . . you better get after those people in MN. . . .

Oh the horry spreads to MN

 

It looks like the event was a blast. Hopefully none of the cachers (many of whom are geo-friends of mine) who multi-logged it will try to compare their find stats with anyone else.

 

Here's one of the multi-logs posted on that page; don't tell me The Numbers Don't Matter to some people:

 

- - - begin paste-in - - -

 

found coke can fiftieth find hope to get one hundred in less then a week

 

- - - end paste-in - - -

 

Again, if they're having fun, great, but if they want to compare with anyone...

Edited January 23, 2007 by drat19

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Seattle has already spoken on the issue of pocket caches.

Yes, they have spoken - they decided to allow it to continue.

Really? I recall several caches being locked and a reviewer being fired.

See, this is where you use utter deceit while calling me a liar!

 

Traveling caches were shut down in the incident you refer to, not pocket caches,

 

and

 

I expect you know why I got myself fired, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with this.

 

You have brought my dismissal as a Reviewer up several times, as if I should be ashamed... crawl under a rock and die... sorry, I am not! I am quite proud of my relationship with Groundspeak before, during and since. If you have issues with it take it up with Roth.

 

Tacky of you to try to use it, though.

[+Criminal]

Seattle has already spoken on the issue of pocket caches.

Yes, they have spoken - they decided to allow it to continue.

Really? I recall several caches being locked and a reviewer being fired.

See, this is where you use utter deceit while calling me a liar!

 

Traveling caches were shut down in the incident you refer to, not pocket caches,

 

and

 

I expect you know why I got myself fired, and it had nothing whatsoever to do with this.

 

You have brought my dismissal as a Reviewer up several times, as if I should be ashamed... crawl under a rock and die... sorry, I am not! I am quite proud of my relationship with Groundspeak before, during and since. If you have issues with it take it up with Roth.

 

Tacky of you to try to use it, though.

No, actually I wasn't sure if it was you or someone else!

 

No deceit, several pocket caches were closed because they were traveling.

 

EDIT: I called you a liar? I don't think so, you weren't at that event.

Edited January 23, 2007 by Criminal

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

No, actually I wasn't sure if it was you or someone else!

Since as far as I know I was the only Reviewer fired that year I will call bullhonkery to that.

 

No deceit, several pocket caches were closed because they were traveling.

Pocket caches by definition can't travel. They exist for one event, are logged on that event pages and nowhere else. If it has it's own listing, as the ones you refer to did, I believe, then they are not Pocket Caches.

 

This, I believe, is the crux of the Pocket Cache issue - folks who don't even know what they are or how they are used running rampant with assumptions and misinformation!

Edited January 23, 2007 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+Moose Mob]

Private battles belong in private messages. Please take it away from the forums.

 

Thanks

Edited January 23, 2007 by Moose Mob

[+greyhounder]

Copied from event description.

 

Special thanks to Jeremy, Gr8 Eyes and Lego Lover for offering assistance with the downloads during the morning check in! Jeremy also has the WGA cable box on loan which means we should have the cables for most units.

 

????????

 

This :

 

 

One of the members of the Wisconsin Geocaching Association created this handy little device to help with upload geocaches to the GPS. It has since been given the name "The Eggplant"

 

It's nifty.

 

Bec

Edited January 23, 2007 by greyhounder

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

Maybe they should just take events out of the total find stats. They aren't geocaches anyhow. This would make everyone me happy!

 

There, I fixed it for you. You don't speak for everyone, and apparently some people LIKE it the way it is.

[Mr.Yuck]

If Groundspeak ever decides to post rules, or even guidelines, defining what a find is, then I will happily don my inquisitors white robe, grab my pitchfork & torch, and join Criminal in his self appointed witch hunt. Till then, I'll have to pass.

 

Oh crud. You figure there would be a picuture of an angry mob with pitchforks and torches somewhere on the internet. This is the best I could do though, sorry.

 

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

I don't think anyone has answered this question:

 

How has an individual logging an event mutliple times detract from anyone else's enjoyment from caching?

 

Let me use a baseball analogy. I enjoy watching baseball. I've watched games that Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa played in.

 

It was later revealed that they were likely using steroids. Though steroid use was not against the rules of baseball at the time, Bonds, McGuire and Sosa are now widely considered cheaters and the records they set, suspect. The stigma was enough to keep McGuire out of the Hall of Fame during the recent vote.

 

The fact that I later found out that they were using steroids didn't affect my enjoyment of those games one bit. But I'm still within my rights to call them cheaters and say what they did was wrong and not good for the game.

 

And their actions affected everyone in the game. Thanks to them, you wonder about everyone who was playing at the time. That guy who had a great year, was it legit or was he "juiced"? You can't look at ANY player without wondering in the back of your mind whether or not he was on steroids when he accomplished something. And that is totally unfair to the guys who played clean.

 

You're missing the one HUGE difference that makes this a ridiculous analogy. Baseball is a COMPETITION. There are real, tangible INCENTIVES for doing well in baseball, or at least better than other participants.

 

Did I miss the big announcement? Is there now a prize for being the best geocacher? Is it just a trophy or is there money, too? Am I going to lose out on a multi-year endorsement because of my low numbers?

[+ParrotRobAndCeCe]

I play how I want to, but my stats which were aquired honestly, don't carry their true weight when comparing them to other cachers on pages like the "grand high pobah, or zinnware." I really like www.itsnotaboutthenumbers.com because he processes the data to include how many "unique caches" that you have found.

The problem is that you want the numbers on these sites to be comparable. Even if everyone was "honest" and only counted physical cache where they signed the logs, virtual caches they actually visited, and events they actually attended but only one time for each event - how could you compare all the difficult hiking caches you say you like to do with the person whose finds include parking lot lampposts.

 

Uh, you can't. Why do you think they hate micros, too? For the exact same reason - because it makes it easier for others to get numbers bigger than theirs.

 

While I don't condone this practice, I won't let it bother me because it has absolutely no effect on why I cache.

 

How silly of you, toza. You cache simply because it brings you pleasure and enjoyment? That's ridiculous.

Edited January 23, 2007 by ParrotRob

[Moun10Bike]

Pocket caches by definition can't travel. They exist for one event, are logged on that event pages and nowhere else. If it has it's own listing, as the ones you refer to did, I believe, then they are not Pocket Caches.

 

This, I believe, is the crux of the Pocket Cache issue - folks who don't even know what they are or how they are used running rampant with assumptions and misinformation!

 

This is definitely not my understanding of what a Pocket Cache is. A Pocket Cache is a listed cache that is removed from the posted coordinates (or in some cases, just the logbook is), brought to an event for people to log, and the online logs are posted on the PC's cache page rather than the event page. The name came from the fact that people were carrying them around in their pockets at events.

[+Criminal]

No, actually I wasn't sure if it was you or someone else!

Since as far as I know I was the only Reviewer fired that year I will call bullhonkery to that.

 

No deceit, several pocket caches were closed because they were traveling.

Pocket caches by definition can't travel. They exist for one event, are logged on that event pages and nowhere else. If it has it's own listing, as the ones you refer to did, I believe, then they are not Pocket Caches.

 

This, I believe, is the crux of the Pocket Cache issue - folks who don't even know what they are or how they are used running rampant with assumptions and misinformation!

I’m not privy to the hiring and firing of reviewers, I have no idea who or how many were hired or fired for a given period. I had heard from people not employed by Groundspeak (thus hearsay) that someone was fired for some reason during that time. I also heard it was you, but had since forgotten that fact, that’s why I said “someone was fired”. It’s short-attention-span-theater here.

 

IIRC, the pocket caches at GW4 were actual caches with fixed coordinates that were taken to the event to allow folks to log them without going through the bother of looking for them. That made them traveling caches. If you previously had used the term ‘pocket caches’ for something else, I wasn’t aware. Like I said, before GW4 I had no idea such nonsense was going on.

 

Regardless of the definition, neither are geocaches. It is my personal opinion that using the geocaching website to tally finds on things that are not geocaches is harmful to the game. It erodes the honor system of logging (leading to calls for more rules) and devalues the efforts of the people who really found that or any other geocache.

 

I used the term ‘liar’ because one must tell a lie to select Found It when they did not or Attended numerous times because such is physically impossible.

[Pto]

Wasnt this about multi-logging an attend at an event?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Pocket caches by definition can't travel. They exist for one event, are logged on that event pages and nowhere else. If it has it's own listing, as the ones you refer to did, I believe, then they are not Pocket Caches.

 

This, I believe, is the crux of the Pocket Cache issue - folks who don't even know what they are or how they are used running rampant with assumptions and misinformation!

 

This is definitely not my understanding of what a Pocket Cache is. A Pocket Cache is a listed cache that is removed from the posted coordinates (or in some cases, just the logbook is), brought to an event for people to log, and the online logs are posted on the PC's cache page rather than the event page. The name came from the fact that people were carrying them around in their pockets at events.

Now we're getting somewhere! This, as I said, is the heart of the matter, I believe - a misunderstanding in terms and definitions!

 

JoGPS created Pocket Caches as described in my post explaining where the fun is in them, at GW2, I think.

 

Pocket caches as they are used at all of the events I have ever been to have been used as I described them.

 

This may go a long way to explaining the furor in these forums - caches listed and taken to events have never, at least in my experience, been called Pocket Caches.

 

This misunderstanding of what Pocket Caches are and how they are used, and evidently misunderstood and misrepresented in some areas, needs to be straightened out.

 

A Pocket Cache is simply a temporary event cache, a container with a log, with a life span of that event, that is hidden and found at that event, and is logged by logging an Attended note for each Pocket Cache found.

 

Anything else is something else.

[+Snoogans]

Wasnt this about multi-logging an attend at an event?

 

 

The funny part as I recall, the original pocket cache thread had nothing to do with the multi-logging of an event, but hey, go with what sells your agenda....

[+JoGPS]

First let me breakdown what a true pocket cache is not

 

(1) not a cache that has or ever will have a GC#

(2) not a moving cache, there are some grand fathered in from before March 2003

(3) not a temporarily cache that will later become a regular cache later.

(4) not an extra log book someone brought to the event just for the smiley

(5) not a cache that is archive, or one never used

(6) not a cache someone temporarily disabled and brought to the event

(7) not a cache someone brought to the event just so folks could get an extra smiley

(8) not to be logged on anyone’s cache just for the smiley

(9) am sure I left a few off, read and understand the guidelines

(10) if any of the above are done the cache listing will be archive and locked

 

An event pocket cache is a temporarily cache hidden just for the event, or in someone’s pocket for the meet & greet for an ice breaker. They can be logged multiple times “ONLY” on the event page not anywhere else. There is no guideline against it.

 

Show Me The Cache came up with the idea and name at the first Geo-Woodstock in Louisville KY as a way to break the ice and walk up and meet new folks and the new catch phrase was created “”Is that a cache in your pocket or are you just happy to see me “”

 

Yep I am still having fun

 

Joe

[Neos2]

To clear up some terminology confusion:

 

Pocket cache = container in someone's pocket with log to sign; usually small, such as a film canister.

Found by asking someone if they have the pocket cache in their pocket and signing the log.

 

Event cache = container with logbook to sign hidden at or near an event venue. Can be any type of container, can be any difficulty of hide, as with any other cache. Coordinates posted somewhere (piece of paper, on a board, on the event page, etc). Found by putting coordinates in the gps, and finding the cache (i.e. "the ususal way a cache is found") during the event or a short time before or after the event (usually less than one weekend).

 

Caches that were locked after a major event = caches that were placed in some town, some state, and while still listed in their original location were taken to the major event to be logged.

Found by ? (I wasn't there, so I do not know if they were hidden with coordinates to locate them posted somewhere or just sitting out in the open on tables, sorry!)

 

Edited to add that JoGPS posted while I was typing up my version of what is a pocket cache, and I like his better!

Edited January 23, 2007 by Neos2

[+TrailGators]

To clear up some terminology confusion:

 

Pocket cache = container in someone's pocket with log to sign; usually small, such as a film canister.

Found by asking someone if they have the pocket cache in their pocket and signing the log.

 

Event cache = container with logbook to sign hidden at or near an event venue. Can be any type of container, can be any difficulty of hide, as with any other cache. Coordinates posted somewhere (piece of paper, on a board, on the event page, etc). Found by putting coordinates in the gps, and finding the cache (i.e. "the ususal way a cache is found") during the event or a short time before or after the event (usually less than one weekend).

 

Caches that were locked after a major event = caches that were placed in some town, some state, and while still listed in their original location were taken to the major event to be logged.

Found by ? (I wasn't there, so I do not know if they were hidden with coordinates to locate them posted somewhere or just sitting out in the open on tables, sorry!)

Sounds like "The Bad, The Bad and The Ugly!" Edited January 23, 2007 by TrailGators

[Neos2]

To clear up some terminology confusion:

 

Pocket cache = container in someone's pocket with log to sign; usually small, such as a film canister.

Found by asking someone if they have the pocket cache in their pocket and signing the log.

 

Event cache = container with logbook to sign hidden at or near an event venue. Can be any type of container, can be any difficulty of hide, as with any other cache. Coordinates posted somewhere (piece of paper, on a board, on the event page, etc). Found by putting coordinates in the gps, and finding the cache (i.e. "the ususal way a cache is found") during the event or a short time before or after the event (usually less than one weekend).

 

Caches that were locked after a major event = caches that were placed in some town, some state, and while still listed in their original location were taken to the major event to be logged.

Found by ? (I wasn't there, so I do not know if they were hidden with coordinates to locate them posted somewhere or just sitting out in the open on tables, sorry!)

Sounds like "The Bad, The Bad and The Ugly!"

So if you think geocaches are "Bad" why do you geocache?

[+TrailGators]

To clear up some terminology confusion:

 

Pocket cache = container in someone's pocket with log to sign; usually small, such as a film canister.

Found by asking someone if they have the pocket cache in their pocket and signing the log.

 

Event cache = container with logbook to sign hidden at or near an event venue. Can be any type of container, can be any difficulty of hide, as with any other cache. Coordinates posted somewhere (piece of paper, on a board, on the event page, etc). Found by putting coordinates in the gps, and finding the cache (i.e. "the ususal way a cache is found") during the event or a short time before or after the event (usually less than one weekend).

 

Caches that were locked after a major event = caches that were placed in some town, some state, and while still listed in their original location were taken to the major event to be logged.

Found by ? (I wasn't there, so I do not know if they were hidden with coordinates to locate them posted somewhere or just sitting out in the open on tables, sorry!)

Sounds like "The Bad, The Bad and The Ugly!"

So if you think geocaches are "Bad" why do you geocache?

Geocache = a cache listed on Geocaching.com that is located at the coodinates that were submitted to and approved by an official Groundspeak reviewer.

It seems like you forgot to include that definition with your list.

Edited January 23, 2007 by TrailGators

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

.... An event pocket cache is a temporarily cache hidden just for the event, or in someone’s pocket for the meet & greet for an ice breaker. They can be logged multiple times “ONLY” on the event page not anywhere else. There is no guideline against it.

 

Yep I am still having fun

 

Joe

Thank you Joe! If we are going to discuss something we all need to know what it is!

 

We needed clear definition of the history and present definition of Pocket Caches and you are the only one that could have provided it.

 

Maybe these posts will get us all on the same page as to what a Pocket Cache actually is, so we can all discuss the same thing!

 

I'm glad you are having fun, thanks for all you do to make this game fun for all of us!

[Neos2]

So here's my take....I may have said this already. I am getting forgetful.

 

I think event caches should be official event caches. They should be listed as child waypoints or something similar to that on the event page, (but not until after the event starts, so no one finds them early). I like finding good caches, and I like finding them during events. SomeMany of the event caches I've found are far superior to other caches out there in the wild. They should show up in my account as "event caches" with "found it" "note" and "DNF" options for me to choose from. I don't really care how they count in my overall stats--I know how to add and subtract. I would like them listed there, though.

 

I don't think there should be too many event caches at one event. I am willing to debate how many is too many, but I suggest about ten per hour hour event sounds reasonable to me. More than that and it becomes hard to come up with quality caches.

[Neos2]

To clear up some terminology confusion:

 

Pocket cache = container in someone's pocket with log to sign; usually small, such as a film canister.

Found by asking someone if they have the pocket cache in their pocket and signing the log.

 

Event cache = container with logbook to sign hidden at or near an event venue. Can be any type of container, can be any difficulty of hide, as with any other cache. Coordinates posted somewhere (piece of paper, on a board, on the event page, etc). Found by putting coordinates in the gps, and finding the cache (i.e. "the ususal way a cache is found") during the event or a short time before or after the event (usually less than one weekend).

 

Caches that were locked after a major event = caches that were placed in some town, some state, and while still listed in their original location were taken to the major event to be logged.

Found by ? (I wasn't there, so I do not know if they were hidden with coordinates to locate them posted somewhere or just sitting out in the open on tables, sorry!)

Sounds like "The Bad, The Bad and The Ugly!"

So if you think geocaches are "Bad" why do you geocache?

A "geocache" = a cache listed on Geocaching.com that is located at the coodinates that were submitted to and approved by an official Groundspeak reviewer.

It seems like you forgot to include that definition with your list.

Well, I said "some" terminology--- and I figured anyone who didn't know what a geocache was would probably either not be on this forum or would feel free to ask!

[+greyhounder]

I really like www.itsnotaboutthenumbers.com because he processes the data to include how many "unique caches" that you have found.

 

And this was created by a cacher from Wisconsin!

 

Bec

[+Criminal]

It's a disservice to call these pocket snot rags "pocket caches." I don't care about "the numbers" but I do care about folks who circumvent the features of the site

in order to log someone's pocket lint.

 

If these converted listings are reported they will be archived and locked. If after a warning folks continue to make them they will be banned.

 

My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations.

 

--------------------

 

Jeremy Irish Groundspeak - The Language of Location ™

 

I wonder if Jeremy has anything new to add

What else does he need to say?

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=1524015

The point is irrelevant. Temp caches aren't allowed on the site. And as I indicated in countless threads in the past, I think logging attended twice for an event is stupid, and posting additional logs to "match" whatever "count" you determined your numbers should be is equally stupid. However I have no plans to be the point police and create complicated rules for determining what counts as a find. That is up to the cache listing owner to decide.

 

However I do reserve the right to stop abuse on this web site, and frown highly upon fake logs on archived caches (or any cache) just to boost numbers here - such as counting finds on other listing sites. Just because I don't want to be the point police doesn't mean I can't take appropriate action against the users who decide to abuse the features of this site.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=1524077

No. No temporary caches. No special log type. No "count" find for caches found during an event. I don't know how much clearer I need to be.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=1528724

a cache listing is meant to be hidden for a certain timeframe that is far longer than the weekend or day of an event. The whole objective to listing caches on a web site is for others to go out and find them. Creating a small window of opportunity for a listing is counter to the entire intent of the web site.

 

Wanting to throw up a bunch of temporary caches so you can log them as a "find" is the height of selfishness, IMO. You are well aware that the "cache" is just a part of the event, like a three legged race.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=2261899

Am I the only one confused by the "the website allows it" statement?

 

I'm not confused by it. I just accept it as flawed reasoning. It isn't any more valid than saying that a house with an unlocked front door means it is ok to move in there.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=2270287

the official stance is that you can really only find a cache once. To implement social change by allowing some arbitrary number of logs for a cache tends to encourage this behavior. This is not a technical reason for doing an all or nothing proposition but a social one.

 

And as you mention:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=2246774

It's a disservice to call these pocket snot rags "pocket caches." I don't care about "the numbers" but I do care about folks who circumvent the features of the site in order to log someone's pocket lint.

 

If these converted listings are reported they will be archived and locked. If after a warning folks continue to make them they will be banned.

 

My goodness. The activity used to be about the journey to discover new locations

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Geocache = a cache listed on Geocaching.com that is located at the coodinates that were submitted to and approved by an official Groundspeak reviewer.

It seems like you forgot to include that definition with your list.

So if it's listed elsewhere it's not a geocache?

 

The man hisself gave you the definition of a Pocket Cache as an accepted form of geocache; personally, I think his soft rarely-spoken word carries more weight than anyone else outside the Frog Palace.

[+mudsneaker]

so I guess if its ok to do multiple logs for events. Then by the same ideal its ok to log every stage of a multicache? I mean hey, it was there, and I found it, so should be able to post all those smilies too right.

Why stop at just event caches when theres tons of multicaches to pump those numbers up too. Those folks that are doing it are missing out on so many more!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

to be clear...

 

multi logging =

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

... Bunch of the bosses post clipped for brevity only...

In most of those cases he is talking about the misuse of traveling and archived caches and not about Pocket Caches.

 

He has been clear on his disdain for Pocket Caches, but has not vetoed their use.

 

These other caches and incidents he mentions are not Pocket Caches and should not be painted with the same brush.

[+Criminal]

so I guess if its ok to do multiple logs for events. Then by the same ideal its ok to log every stage of a multicache? I mean hey, it was there, and I found it, so should be able to post all those smilies too right.

Why stop at just event caches when theres tons of multicaches to pump those numbers up too. Those folks that are doing it are missing out on so many more!http://www.myspacesmilies.com/smilies/sign0058.gif

That was my point earlier. Where do we draw the line?

Edited January 23, 2007 by Criminal

[+vaddynwashere]

Um... what's a pocket cache?

Please don't ignore me, I really am trying to understand what all the fuss is about...

Thanx.

[+mudsneaker]

did you read this page? theres a few posts defining it

[+briansnat]

Um... what's a pocket cache?

Please don't ignore me, I really am trying to understand what all the fuss is about...

Thanx.

 

A pocket cache is basically where someone walks around with a "cache" in his pocket and when people meet him, they get to log a find. Being that they are against the guidelines and can't be listed here, some people like to abuse the features of this website to get credit for a "find".

 

Not to be confused with temporary event caches, which are placed for people to find during some events. They are not listed on this website, so logging them here is controversial as you can see.

Edited January 24, 2007 by briansnat

[+Cornerstone4]

Um... what's a pocket cache?

Please don't ignore me, I really am trying to understand what all the fuss is about...

Thanx.

 

All of the fuss is about temporary caches at events. You cannot list a temporary cache on this site, and you cannot have an event for the express reason to go out and hunt caches.

 

Somewhere along the way, folks started setting up temorary caches at events to give folks a little something to enjoy. Then, many of those people were bothered since finding these temporary caches didn't add to their numbers. So, they then started logging an "Attended" to the event for as many temp caches as they found. Therefore, you see some folks attending the same event 10 or 20 times...

 

That's it in a nutshell.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Um... what's a pocket cache?

Please don't ignore me, I really am trying to understand what all the fuss is about...

Thanx.

 

Read the last page and a half, we're working towards a common understanding, but most importantly from JoGPS' post above:

First let me breakdown what a true pocket cache is not

 

(1) not a cache that has or ever will have a GC#

(2) not a moving cache, there are some grand fathered in from before March 2003

(3) not a temporarily cache that will later become a regular cache later.

(4) not an extra log book someone brought to the event just for the smiley

(5) not a cache that is archive, or one never used

(6) not a cache someone temporarily disabled and brought to the event

(7) not a cache someone brought to the event just so folks could get an extra smiley

(8) not to be logged on anyone’s cache just for the smiley

(9) am sure I left a few off, read and understand the guidelines

(10) if any of the above are done the cache listing will be archive and locked

 

An event pocket cache is a temporarily cache hidden just for the event, or in someone’s pocket for the meet & greet for an ice breaker. They can be logged multiple times “ONLY” on the event page not anywhere else. There is no guideline against it.

 

Show Me The Cache came up with the idea and name at the first Geo-Woodstock in Louisville KY as a way to break the ice and walk up and meet new folks and the new catch phrase was created “”Is that a cache in your pocket or are you just happy to see me “”

 

Hope that helps.

[+Criminal]

Um... what's a pocket cache?

Please don't ignore me, I really am trying to understand what all the fuss is about...

Thanx.

 

All of the fuss is about temporary caches at events. You cannot list a temporary cache on this site, and you cannot have an event for the express reason to go out and hunt caches.

 

Somewhere along the way, folks started setting up temorary caches at events to give folks a little something to enjoy. Then, many of those people were bothered since finding these temporary caches didn't add to their numbers. So, they then started logging an "Attended" to the event for as many temp caches as they found. Therefore, you see some folks attending the same event 10 or 20 times...

 

That's it in a nutshell.

Except you’re forgetting a certain so-called ‘leader’ who, after finding out she couldn’t log the temp caches at GW4 because they’d been locked, logged some of her own hides to ‘correct’ her already fake numbers.

[+Cornerstone4]

First let me breakdown what a true pocket cache is not

 

(1) not a cache that has or ever will have a GC#

(2) not a moving cache, there are some grand fathered in from before March 2003

(3) not a temporarily cache that will later become a regular cache later.

(4) not an extra log book someone brought to the event just for the smiley

(5) not a cache that is archive, or one never used

(6) not a cache someone temporarily disabled and brought to the event

(7) not a cache someone brought to the event just so folks could get an extra smiley

(8) not to be logged on anyone’s cache just for the smiley

(8.5)not to be allowed to be logged at next months Temecula Valley Caching event...

(9) am sure I left a few off, read and understand the guidelines

(10) if any of the above are done the cache listing will be archive and locked

 

An event pocket cache is a temporarily cache hidden just for the event, or in someone’s pocket for the meet & greet for an ice breaker. They can be logged multiple times “ONLY” on the event page not anywhere else. There is no guideline against it.

 

Show Me The Cache came up with the idea and name at the first Geo-Woodstock in Louisville KY as a way to break the ice and walk up and meet new folks and the new catch phrase was created “”Is that a cache in your pocket or are you just happy to see me “”

 

Added point 8.5 to Joe's list...

 

Edited January 24, 2007 by Cornerstone4

[+edscott]

 

Baseball players are paid millions. They get to enter the Hall Of Fame if they play a lot better than other players in ways that are considered "honest". They can win or lose games based on how well they play.

 

It DOES make a difference if a baseball player cheats, or takes an unfair advantage over other players even though it's not against the rules.

 

Geocachers are not paid to cache (sneaking off to cache during work hours doesn't count). There is no Geocaching Hall Of Fame that we can get into if we find a lot more caches than everyone else. We can't win or lose caching by changing how we play.

 

It DOESN'T make a difference if a geocacher "cheats", or claims extra finds on an event, even though it's not against the rules... unless you let it bother you.

 

so unless there is money involved there are no ethics? interesting perspective.

[+tozainamboku]

Geocaching.com is a listing site for people to list their caches. The cache owners have the right (within reason) to determine what constitutes a find on their caches. The guidelines limit this somewhat and though it is not explicitly stated I have seen TPTB lock the listing for caches where a cache owner is deleting logs just to spite someone else or where an owner has allowed logs (other than back dated finds) on an archived cache that no longer exists. With the cache owners having control over the logs, we see several issues that give the puritans conniptions. Cache owners can award a find for trying, they can award bonus finds, and they can require additional requirements be met to log a find. Jeremy has indicated that he personally doesn't like any of these variations. He is probably a puritan when it come to the definition of a find. But he has also chosen not to change the guidelines or the website code at this time. For now these variations are allowed.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Dang! I must be doing something wrong! Attend an event? Yes, I've done that. Event caches? I don't generally do them, but how does that qualify as attending the event multiple times?!? Come to think of it, I did the five event caches at one event. It never occurred to me to log them. Why would I? They're not geocaching caches. And this is an event, not a geocache. Of course, I'd never log a cache more than once anyway. And I'd never log an event more than once. (Locationless caches were a different story, as were Markwell's Photography caches. Like moving caches, the objective/coordinates changed.) I did a nice multi once, with a 'bonus'. The bonus was a nice place to visit, but it was not a cache, so I didn't log the cache twice. One cache, one smiley. Likewise, I've never logged one of my own caches. That would be a silly thing to do.

The question keeps arising of how this affects my game. And, "Hey, I'm having fun." It doesn't affect my game. But I have no idea what game you're playing. It's not the game I'm playing. I'm geocaching. Don't know what to call what you're doing, but it's not geocaching.

Honesty? Integrity? Do they exist in the modern world? Sometimes I wonder.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Um... what's a pocket cache?

Please don't ignore me, I really am trying to understand what all the fuss is about...

Thanx.

 

All of the fuss is about temporary caches at events. You cannot list a temporary cache on this site, and you cannot have an event for the express reason to go out and hunt caches.

 

Somewhere along the way, folks started setting up temorary caches at events to give folks a little something to enjoy. Then, many of those people were bothered since finding these temporary caches didn't add to their numbers. So, they then started logging an "Attended" to the event for as many temp caches as they found. Therefore, you see some folks attending the same event 10 or 20 times...

 

That's it in a nutshell.

Except you’re forgetting a certain so-called ‘leader’ who, after finding out she couldn’t log the temp caches at GW4 because they’d been locked, logged some of her own hides to ‘correct’ her already fake numbers.

 

Say it ain't so!!!! Really...she would do that???? REALLY???? and all this time I thought those were rumors about her Careful though, her friends get mad when you talk bad about her!!

[+vaddynwashere]

Well... it's not like they care what other cachers think...

If this is against the rules of this website - well, tell the admin and he'll kick them? Make them build their own website, and use their own resourses.

If this is not against the rules, then screw them, let them do whatever they want.

They're not your (or this community's) friends, you're not theirs... whatever?

 

I don't see how this is a problem?

[+Snoogans]

so I guess if its ok to do multiple logs for events. Then by the same ideal its ok to log every stage of a multicache? I mean hey, it was there, and I found it, so should be able to post all those smilies too right.

Why stop at just event caches when theres tons of multicaches to pump those numbers up too. Those folks that are doing it are missing out on so many more!http://www.myspacesmilies.com/smilies/sign0058.gif

That was my point earlier. Where do we draw the line?

 

 

Criminal, who is the "WE" you keep speaking of?

 

 

I draw my own lines from what has been promulgated thus far from geocaching.com and not from forum banter and posturing.They are the ones with the power to define how the game is played on this site. I have no need do define for others how they find enjoyment here, nor do I wish to judge folks for playing differently than me given that there are no written rules from geocaching.com about this issue. It matters not to me in the least. It matters even less that it's all happening thousands of miles away this time around, so maybe "we" isn't the best pronoun. Perhaps you and your little movement need to come up with a name to identify with and rally around, so folks like me won't be bothered with you using all encompasing pronouns to back your position. In short, your WE does not include me.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Geocaching.com is a listing site for people to list their caches. The cache owners have the right (within reason) to determine what constitutes a find on their caches. The guidelines limit this somewhat and though it is not explicitly stated I have seen TPTB lock the listing for caches where a cache owner is deleting logs just to spite someone else or where an owner has allowed logs (other than back dated finds) on an archived cache that no longer exists. With the cache owners having control over the logs, we see several issues that give the puritans conniptions. Cache owners can award a find for trying, they can award bonus finds, and they can require additional requirements be met to log a find. Jeremy has indicated that he personally doesn't like any of these variations. He is probably a puritan when it come to the definition of a find. But he has also chosen not to change the guidelines or the website code at this time. For now these variations are allowed.

 

So, what's a puritan? Someone who is against lying and cheating? You make it sound like it's a bad thing. Jeremy was pretty clear where he stands and used very strong language for those that abuse the system. Just because someone CAN do something doesn't mean they SHOULD do it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with calling "foul" when you see something happening that is wrong.

 

FOUL!

[+TrailGators]

To clear up some terminology confusion:

 

Pocket cache = container in someone's pocket with log to sign; usually small, such as a film canister.

Found by asking someone if they have the pocket cache in their pocket and signing the log.

 

Event cache = container with logbook to sign hidden at or near an event venue. Can be any type of container, can be any difficulty of hide, as with any other cache. Coordinates posted somewhere (piece of paper, on a board, on the event page, etc). Found by putting coordinates in the gps, and finding the cache (i.e. "the ususal way a cache is found") during the event or a short time before or after the event (usually less than one weekend).

 

Caches that were locked after a major event = caches that were placed in some town, some state, and while still listed in their original location were taken to the major event to be logged.

Found by ? (I wasn't there, so I do not know if they were hidden with coordinates to locate them posted somewhere or just sitting out in the open on tables, sorry!)

Sounds like "The Bad, The Bad and The Ugly!"

So if you think geocaches are "Bad" why do you geocache?

A "geocache" = a cache listed on Geocaching.com that is located at the coodinates that were submitted to and approved by an official Groundspeak reviewer.

It seems like you forgot to include that definition with your list.

Well, I said "some" terminology--- and I figured anyone who didn't know what a geocache was would probably either not be on this forum or would feel free to ask!

That was the only one missing and it is the only cache that founders intended for people to log on GC.com.

It seems clear that many people have forgotten this so I added it.

Edited January 24, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Criminal]

so I guess if its ok to do multiple logs for events. Then by the same ideal its ok to log every stage of a multicache? I mean hey, it was there, and I found it, so should be able to post all those smilies too right.

Why stop at just event caches when theres tons of multicaches to pump those numbers up too. Those folks that are doing it are missing out on so many more!http://www.myspacesmilies.com/smilies/sign0058.gif

That was my point earlier. Where do we draw the line?

 

 

Criminal, who is the "WE" you keep speaking of?

 

 

I draw my own lines from what has been promulgated thus far from geocaching.com and not from forum banter and posturing.They are the ones with the power to define how the game is played on this site. I have no need do define for others how they find enjoyment here, nor do I wish to judge folks for playing differently than me given that there are no written rules from geocaching.com about this issue. It matters not to me in the least. It matters even less that it's all happening thousands of miles away this time around, so maybe "we" isn't the best pronoun. Perhaps you and your little movement need to come up with a name to identify with and rally around, so folks like me won't be bothered with you using all encompasing pronouns to back your position. In short, your WE does not include me.

To suggest that the ability to log temporary caches or pocket caches as ‘found’ (as opposed to a note or no log at all) makes the game ‘more fun’ is absolutely asinine. I’m all for everyone having fun at events, I have fun at events myself. The fun and the logging are totally separate issues. You are saying that if they found the temp or pocket caches and logged them as notes, they wouldn’t have as much fun? Pfft.

[Mushtang]

 

Baseball players are paid millions. They get to enter the Hall Of Fame if they play a lot better than other players in ways that are considered "honest". They can win or lose games based on how well they play.

 

It DOES make a difference if a baseball player cheats, or takes an unfair advantage over other players even though it's not against the rules.

 

Geocachers are not paid to cache (sneaking off to cache during work hours doesn't count). There is no Geocaching Hall Of Fame that we can get into if we find a lot more caches than everyone else. We can't win or lose caching by changing how we play.

 

It DOESN'T make a difference if a geocacher "cheats", or claims extra finds on an event, even though it's not against the rules... unless you let it bother you.

 

so unless there is money involved there are no ethics? interesting perspective.

Money was just one of the three differences I listed. But you only pointed out one example to try and make it look bad.

 

Interesting strategy.

[+Snoogans]

so I guess if its ok to do multiple logs for events. Then by the same ideal its ok to log every stage of a multicache? I mean hey, it was there, and I found it, so should be able to post all those smilies too right.

Why stop at just event caches when theres tons of multicaches to pump those numbers up too. Those folks that are doing it are missing out on so many more!http://www.myspacesmilies.com/smilies/sign0058.gif

That was my point earlier. Where do we draw the line?

 

 

Criminal, who is the "WE" you keep speaking of?

 

 

I draw my own lines from what has been promulgated thus far from geocaching.com and not from forum banter and posturing.They are the ones with the power to define how the game is played on this site. I have no need do define for others how they find enjoyment here, nor do I wish to judge folks for playing differently than me given that there are no written rules from geocaching.com about this issue. It matters not to me in the least. It matters even less that it's all happening thousands of miles away this time around, so maybe "we" isn't the best pronoun. Perhaps you and your little movement need to come up with a name to identify with and rally around, so folks like me won't be bothered with you using all encompasing pronouns to back your position. In short, your WE does not include me.

To suggest that the ability to log temporary caches or pocket caches as 'found' (as opposed to a note or no log at all) makes the game 'more fun' is absolutely asinine. I'm all for everyone having fun at events, I have fun at events myself. The fun and the logging are totally separate issues. You are saying that if they found the temp or pocket caches and logged them as notes, they wouldn't have as much fun? Pfft.

 

 

I've said no such thing and you know it. My posting in this thread is clear and consistant. I merely remain unconvinced why I should be moved to care and then to judge. You have started this debate all over again and again over an event quite some distance from you. Far away from people you don't have to face at your next event.

 

 

Convince me. Call up the Mayor of Geocaching Town and have him change the rules to fit your picture of what geocaching should be for all who fall in the shadow of your opinion, because what ya got so far ain't blowin' my skirt up. In short, I'd accept it from them changing/creating rules, but not from you.

[+BlueDeuce]

That was my point earlier. Where do we draw the line?

 

If it ain't listed here you don't log it here.

 

If it is listed here, you log it only once.

 

Seems to me if they simply made caches one stat per listing regardless of how many times you log it, people wouldn't waste their time logging temp caches.

 

Of course they could still enjoy finding them, which is what geocaching is all about. I'm pretty sure no fun/enjoyment would be lost.

[+Cornerstone4]

I have to admit, the only reason I would like to see TPTB step in and stop the practice would be to hear the collective gasp of horror when folks log in to the site one day and see their find counts have dropped significantly!

 

However, since Jeremy has made it very clear that he doesn't intend to make the change...then this debate doesn't really serve any purpost other than for entertainment value...

[Mushtang]

That was my point earlier. Where do we draw the line?

Seems to me if they simply made caches one stat per listing regardless of how many times you log it, people wouldn't waste their time logging temp caches.

Why do you think they're wasting their time. Don't you mean that if the site changed to the way YOU want it then YOU'D be happier?

 

I'm pretty sure no fun/enjoyment would be lost.

For YOU. I'm 100% sure that a lot of people that currently enjoy logging event caches multiple times would lose fun/enjoyment. Edited January 24, 2007 by Mushtang