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Pocket Caches are Back?


Criminal

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Ironically the thing I've noticed is that the same folks that complain about the way urban micros are placed are the same ones that are complaining about this. Its as if to say, "Cache my way or don't cache." Myself, I'm not interest in logging an event (or any other cache) multiple times, but I don't care if someone else does. It doesn't affect me, at all.

Odd, I started this thread and have not posted in the other.

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Ironically the thing I've noticed is that the same folks that complain about the way urban micros are placed are the same ones that are complaining about this. Its as if to say, "Cache my way or don't cache." Myself, I'm not interest in logging an event (or any other cache) multiple times, but I don't care if someone else does. It doesn't affect me, at all.

 

Whats wrong with advocating quality caches, or truthful logging of GC.com listed caches, not one day temp cahes?

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But, what I do not understand is this: If you can log the event for the little wooden snowman (which is not a cache listed on geocaching.com), why not log the same little wooden snowman five or six times? Then the cacher could have two-hundred-forty smileys for attending one event? If one is going to log one event forty times, why stop there?

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A group in Germany is currently couch-potato logging virtual caches all over the world - caches that require you to visit the site which they, of course, did not.

 

Event cachers continue to log multiple finds on event caches to get credit for caches that don't meet the guidelines and could never be listed.

 

The number two cacher in the world logged a cache 15 times in late 2005 (I think is was) because she was mad at the cache owner.

 

And pocket caches... pocket caches? Who, in their right mind...

 

And then there are the retirement cards - an archived cache posing as an un-approvable traveling cache.

 

The "prime-directive" of geocaching is to physically find a listed cache and log it. To deviate from that is taking the game in a direction that was not intended. How do people justify this activity?

 

It's not simply a matter of "to each their own", or "it doesn't affect me so why are you worried about it". That type of answer always falls short. This is a very public social game and when people invent their own rules they might have to take some flak for it.

 

I have always been very vocal and flexible about cache logging as long as it wasn't abused. A handful of "creative" finds in anyone's profile is absolutely nothing to get worked up over and I have never been shy about making that point. That is where the "it doesn't affect me so why are you worried" logic is appropriate. But when Found It logging goes this far out of bounds then it qualifies as abuse.

 

Maybe its time for a one-find-per-cache program modification. Then no one would get worked up over this issue.

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Ironically the thing I've noticed is that the same folks that complain about the way urban micros are placed are the same ones that are complaining about this. Its as if to say, "Cache my way or don't cache." Myself, I'm not interest in logging an event (or any other cache) multiple times, but I don't care if someone else does. It doesn't affect me, at all.

 

Whats wrong with advocating quality caches, or truthful logging of GC.com listed caches, not one day temp cahes?

 

It's not about quality; it’s about being able to log caches that are not listed on this site.

 

That’s the bottom line.

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You know, I was under the impression you couldn't hold an event simply to go caching. So why do you get 20 some 'cache finds' from an event?

I believe you may have misunderstood that part. You cannot get a bunch of people together and go do a bunch of caches and call it an event. An event has to have a place to meet, some food to eat or some activities to do, perhaps some prizes or demonstrations or even some other kind of "fun" such as stargazing or CPR training, etc. Most events also include downtime near the middle so the kiddos can rest up or so folks can go grab a few local caches.

You get "cache finds" because someone hid temporary event caches, with coordinates, and you found them, with a GPS.

 

My personal opinion is there ought to be a category just for event caches. They would be logged as "event caches found" and be a separate "type" of cache, like puzzles, or multis etc.

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Ironically the thing I've noticed is that the same folks that complain about the way urban micros are placed are the same ones that are complaining about this. Its as if to say, "Cache my way or don't cache." Myself, I'm not interest in logging an event (or any other cache) multiple times, but I don't care if someone else does. It doesn't affect me, at all.

 

Whats wrong with advocating quality caches, or truthful logging of GC.com listed caches, not one day temp cahes?

 

It's not about quality; it’s about being able to log caches that are not listed on this site.

 

That’s the bottom line.

 

Believe me, i'm adamantly against the practice of multiple attended logs for the purpose of logging un-approvable caches.

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Ironically the thing I've noticed is that the same folks that complain about the way urban micros are placed are the same ones that are complaining about this. Its as if to say, "Cache my way or don't cache." Myself, I'm not interest in logging an event (or any other cache) multiple times, but I don't care if someone else does. It doesn't affect me, at all.

 

Whats wrong with advocating quality caches, or truthful logging of GC.com listed caches, not one day temp cahes?

 

I'm all for "quality" caches, as you put it. However, I am also willing to accept that there are different ways to play this "game". As far as truthful logging, I'm just saying it doesn't hurt anyone but the finder if someone logs the same cache over and over. If TPTB have a problem with it, then let them have at it. All I'm saying is it doesn't really hurt anyone if they log multiple times. However, if it bothers you, you go ahead and complain if it makes you feel better. That doesn't bother me either.

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You know, I was under the impression you couldn't hold an event simply to go caching. So why do you get 20 some 'cache finds' from an event?

I believe you may have misunderstood that part. You cannot get a bunch of people together and go do a bunch of caches and call it an event. An event has to have a place to meet, some food to eat or some activities to do, perhaps some prizes or demonstrations or even some other kind of "fun" such as stargazing or CPR training, etc. Most events also include downtime near the middle so the kiddos can rest up or so folks can go grab a few local caches.

You get "cache finds" because someone hid temporary event caches, with coordinates, and you found them, with a GPS.

 

My personal opinion is there ought to be a category just for event caches. They would be logged as "event caches found" and be a separate "type" of cache, like puzzles, or multis etc.

 

No, I'm pretty sure I understand. You cannot hold an event to simply meet at a trailhead and go caching, and you cannot hold an event unless it's about caching. No scroll saw events, but plenty of "Hey, let's have breakfast and talk about caching and then afterwards… I love those kind.

 

Why you need to pump your stats for caches not listed on this site makes no sense to me.

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Get over your righteous self man. . . . .

 

There's something seriously wrong when you can justify someone's cheating. Cheating is wrong. Lying is wrong. There are people in this world that want you to believe that morality is nothing more than personal opinion. If that's the case, this world is worse than I thought.

This whole thing could be stopped in its tracks by implementing one smiley per cache. They can post all the notes they want, but only one smiley.

 

Where did I justify anyone cheating? link please: ?

Never did I claim cheating wasnt wrong, or that Lying is OK, Did I? I never saw the reference to morality but I do miss things.

 

IMO, This is a GAME and people are going to "play it" how they want to play it- Regardless of how others see it as "wrong". I agree with your premise, but cant seem to apply it as you do to this aspect of my life. Nobody is cheating me of Anything by doing this. There is no ill affect on my by this happening. Lying? To who? You? the caching community who views thier profile? If thats the case- why do people spend so much time and put so much value in a profile of a cacher they never met?

 

I dont care what other people do to enjoy themselves- They went to an event- good for them. I dont get time to make many(1)- and I claimed it 1 time. I dont cache for anyone, or for any "pride" in stats, or "accomplishments". Its a hobby and nothing more. I dont use this as a major source for social activity, or making new freinds. I do that fine on my own, in my more important aspects of life. This is just icing on the cake.

 

If this game is That big of a part of someones life they are willing to spend numerous hours a day/week/month/year going out of their way to critisize people nationwide for not playing up to standards that really arent defined in the guidelines defined by This site- well then they might be one of those people that would complain about a free lunch. Sign says "free hamburgers today" you go in and get one- Next guy behind you comes in and asks for cheese on his & gets it. All of a sudden your free lunch is ruined because you didnt get cheese, and the guy who got cheese is a cheater for beating the system and ordering cheese. You dont like cheese, but were cheated out of it by that other guy anyway . . . . . . Did the sign say you cant get cheese? No. D

 

A smiley isnt a freakin resume - your not lying or cheating anyone but yourself by doing this. If you are placing that high of a value on some stats on an internet website, well then I dont know what to tell you.

Diluting caching? So is turning it into a nationwide witch-hunt of cachers you never met, and wont in the future -who dont play like others want them to play. And by what authority? This forum, used to bash people nationwide. People thousands of miles away, who never met you or might not even care to. Making families, kids and thier freinds out to be the moral scum of the earth- why? Because they can, and do.

 

So if you start plooking the girl in accounting, I guess you can say you’re just being married ‘your way’ ....

 

What? The vows of marriage are no where near the guidlelines here at gc.com. Nice stretch tho, really on topic too.

 

Oh, and don’t concern yourself with my health, I can be appalled at the deterioration of the game by the Wisconsin style cachers without it actually affecting me one bit.

 

IMO, people like you are a bigger detriment to this game than families of cachers having fun, across the country from you. "insert your home state here" style forum bashing is pretty bad for caching too......

 

Come to think of it, I bet grade school kids might take a higher value in a smiley count than most adults, but I guess not all........You better start a tour of all local grade schools to begin to educate the youngstars on the evils of having fun, and the ill affects of over smiley-ism. Its a disease that must be fought

now.

I can see it now- "The war on multiplesmileyism"

 

A nationwide effort will be required, so you and the rest better get planning

 

Its a Wisconsin thing .

 

Quick, get the Minnesota geocachers to have this Liar's Event archived :rolleyes:

 

Pefect= On topic and relevant to this discussion.

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Ironically the thing I've noticed is that the same folks that complain about the way urban micros are placed are the same ones that are complaining about this. Its as if to say, "Cache my way or don't cache." Myself, I'm not interest in logging an event (or any other cache) multiple times, but I don't care if someone else does. It doesn't affect me, at all.

 

Whats wrong with advocating quality caches, or truthful logging of GC.com listed caches, not one day temp cahes?

 

It's not about quality; it’s about being able to log caches that are not listed on this site.

 

That’s the bottom line.

 

Believe me, i'm adamantly against the practice of multiple attended logs for the purpose of logging un-approvable caches.

 

Yes, I know you do.

 

Sorry, it's hard to have a knee jerk reaction just to make point and still acknowledge the overall post. :rolleyes:

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Everyone playing the game / sport has a right to have fun one way or the other, either by playing the way they want to or trying to shoot them down for doing it, as long as each side is having fun what difference does it make.

 

It’s still fun, so have fun ya’ll

 

Okay, I believe I have just as much fun at events as anyone else, and I log them only once. I believe that we all can agree that enjoyment of events does not increase by the number of times we log them.

 

So when you say have fun one way or the other what exactly are these folks having fun doing? Are you telling me they enjoy the actual act of logging caches? The act of typing out logs for a cache 10, 15, 20 times is fun?

 

For me it's not so much a morality/honesty/cheating thing as much as a fun thing. If numbers aren't the reason, and it doesn't do anything to improve the actual event itself, where is the fun in sitting in front of your computer logging a cache over and over? You can argue you have a right to have fun watching paint dry on a wall, and I won't take the right from you. But it doesn't make the activity seem any more logical. Or fun.

 

Oh, and don’t concern yourself with my health, I can be appalled at the deterioration of the game by the Wisconsin style cachers without it actually affecting me one bit.

 

Thanks for saying this. Just because someone disagrees with another's point of view doesn't mean they are losing sleep at night worrying about it. Sheesh.

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Count me among those who just can't understand why people need a smiley to have fun. I've had a blast at events, met a lot of great people and made some good friends. Because I only got one smiley out of it instead of 26 doesn't mean I had less fun. Or does it? Hmmmm, maybe I should log some more "attendeds" for past events to see if I really wasn't having as much fun as I could have.

 

OK, I thought I'd report back. I just logged multiple attends on an event that I had attended. I'm not 100 % sure, but I don't think my fun level increased noticeably. I did have a hint of a smile on my face while I typed the logs, but it was hard to tell if that was because of the increased fun level of that event, or because I thought of a joke my step-daugther told at dinner.

 

I only logged 8 attends. Perhaps that wasn't enough? Is there a minimum number of smileys I need to have fun?

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Count me among those who just can't understand why people need a smiley to have fun. I've had a blast at events, met a lot of great people and made some good friends. Because I only got one smiley out of it instead of 26 doesn't mean I had less fun. Or does it? Hmmmm, maybe I should log some more "attendeds" for past events to see if I really wasn't having as much fun as I could have.

 

OK, I thought I'd report back. I just logged multiple attends on an event that I had attended. I'm not 100 % sure, but I don't think my fun level increased noticeably. I did have a hint of a smile on my face while I typed the logs, but it was hard to tell if that was because of the increased fun level of that event, or because I thought of a joke my step-daugther told at dinner.

 

I only logged 8 attends. Perhaps that wasn't enough? Is there a minimum number of smileys I need to have fun?

 

Hey, I was just wondering how many events you've attended. Looks like you have been to a bunch.

 

I think it's awesome that people in your area are hosting so many!

 

8 one one night!

Edited by BlueDeuce
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You know, I was under the impression you couldn't hold an event simply to go caching. So why do you get 20 some 'cache finds' from an event?

I believe you may have misunderstood that part. You cannot get a bunch of people together and go do a bunch of caches and call it an event. An event has to have a place to meet, some food to eat or some activities to do, perhaps some prizes or demonstrations or even some other kind of "fun" such as stargazing or CPR training, etc. Most events also include downtime near the middle so the kiddos can rest up or so folks can go grab a few local caches.

You get "cache finds" because someone hid temporary event caches, with coordinates, and you found them, with a GPS.

 

My personal opinion is there ought to be a category just for event caches. They would be logged as "event caches found" and be a separate "type" of cache, like puzzles, or multis etc.

Around here, if event organizers want to hide caches for an event, they go out ahead of time, hide caches that meet the guidelines, and have them published for the event.

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Ironically the thing I've noticed is that the same folks that complain about the way urban micros are placed are the same ones that are complaining about this.

I thought I was one of the advocates for creativity in cache placement? I'm not complaining. Multiple logging is something that I would not do, because it would not feel right to me, but it certainly isn't cheating. Groundspeak wrote the guidelines dictating how they feel this game should be played. Multiple logging is not against their guidelines, therefor, even the wildest stretch of the imagination won't twist it into cheating or lying. How can anybody possibly conceive that this is a morality issue? Put your white robes, pitchforks and torches back in the closet. It's a game, folks. Not a religion. :rolleyes:

 

So when you say have fun one way or the other what exactly are these folks having fun doing? Are you telling me they enjoy the actual act of logging caches? The act of typing out logs for a cache 10, 15, 20 times is fun?

Don't know, Brother. I enjoy logging my finds. It's part of what makes this game fun. Maybe they feel different?

Off topic: What is a Hrpty Hrrs? I Googled it without success. :rolleyes:

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If someone jumps in and out the door of an event 1000 times didn't they attend the event 1000 times? :rolleyes:
Nope, but they likely had fun (or they wouldn't do it). Is counting how many times they jumped in and out fun for you?
Yea right... :rolleyes: What's fun for me is going to an event and meeting nice people and having a few brews. If there's a poker run I'll do that too. Then I'll go home and log what happened and thank the event holders. It would definitely not be fun to sit in front of my PC and log the event 100 times. I can't believe anyone thinks that would be fun.
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I guess morality and ethics are relative... I will log a pocket cache but I won't smear my peers if they don't do things my way.

Funny, you just did.

 

Funny how You can call his post a smear. . . . . . (Pot, Kettle)

. . . but I’m not going to chuckle and pretend they aren’t a fat pack of liars.

 

Wisconsin style geocaching. Is that the term for playing it dishonestly?

 

He's logged 810 finds on a couple of dozen event caches, get it right.

 

Yup! The REALLY funny ones are where you see the same single event on 4-5 pages.

 

And thats just this thread on this day.

 

Tell me again how the grade school kids logging finds of temp caches at events is hurting your excellence in geocaching?

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The belief that a bigger find count is worth more than a smaller find count is the root of all evil. I can't tell if the "cheaters" are the ones that believe the a bigger find count is worth more or if the "accusers" are the ones that believe a bigger find count is worth more. If a bigger find count isn't worth more than it doesn't matter if someone logs an event multiple times.

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Maybe they should just take events out of the total find stats. They aren't geocaches anyhow. This would make everyone happy! :rolleyes:

 

Nah, let's keep it simple and at the same time, keep people honest. Make it to where a person can only claim ONE find per cache or per event! :rolleyes:

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The belief that a bigger find count is worth more than a smaller find count is the root of all evil. I can't tell if the "cheaters" are the ones that believe the a bigger find count is worth more or if the "accusers" are the ones that believe a bigger find count is worth more. If a bigger find count isn't worth more than it doesn't matter if someone logs an event multiple times.

 

It's not a question of which is worth more. It's a question of accuracy. It's a question of honesty. a "Find" is when you find a "LISTED" cache and put your John Hancock in a logbook. Simple as that. I agree with a post a few back that stated events aren't even really caches. Unless the organizer has a log book up his nose and doesn't move around very much.

 

I think they should move events over to Waymarking (or somewhere else) and implement 1 find per cache. Problem solved!

 

.... And maybe burn all the micros (Just Kidding :rolleyes:)

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I don't think anyone has answered this question:

 

How has an individual logging an event mutliple times detract from anyone else's enjoyment from caching?

I've posted variations of this personal story multiple times in the past; here it is again:

 

In Mississippi back in the '02-'04 timeframe, back when Dan Miller's stat site was still active, we used to have an INFORMAL, FRIENDLY in-state stats competition...no prizes, and plenty of good-natured ribbing about it. There was no Micro Spew back then (and I'm proud to report that in MS we still have very little of it in general...come on down!), and our informal competition encouraged cachers to drive all over the state and crank as many caches as possible. Even among urban caches in our few cities within the state, one could generally be assured of a quality caching experience, so it was about both The Numbers and also about The Fun.

 

One time I found a cache and before completing my processing of it, got sidetracked by some local wildlife. When I returned home to log it, I correctly and honestly reported that I found the cache but failed to sign the logbook. I got SHREDDED (good naturedly) on our local forums for being a "false logger"...for taking a Smiley ONCE on a cache on which I failed to sign the log (and on which I had publicly owned up to it!). Needless to say, I never made THAT mistake again - the peer pressure was too great. In our little Mississippi caching subculture, if you wanted to play the stats game, you played it honestly or you suffered suitable wrath in the public forums. Oh, and if you attended one of our wonderful state Events, you logged it ONCE.

 

With the growth of the game since '04, and the growth of ways in which folks can pump up their stats, either honestly (Urban Micro Spew runs - cheap finds, but honest), or dishonestly (Google caching, pocket caches and other multi-event-log-finding, etc etc), the Stat has become completely de-valued and meaningless. I'm now a Reformed Numbers Ho. (However, in MS, since honest logging is still HIGHLY encouraged, we do hold events to honor cachers on their Milestone (1K, etc) finds. It's what I like to think of as Southern-style Hospitality with a bit of Yankee-style Enforcement!).

 

I still get as much enjoyment as I can by being selective about my cache hunts (avoiding Spew, logging honestly, etc.), but the de-valuation of the Stat has indeed taken away one aspect of enjoyment from my play of the game. I readily admit it.

 

Anyone else care to admit that they, too, have been similarly affected by the de-valuation of Stats?

Edited by drat19
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I don't need to quote anyone, just some observations here. First, and I just brought up a similiar point last week in the discussion about German armchair virtual loggers, there is no witchhunt here. And there is no angry mob carrying torches and pitchforks wearing white robes (btw Clan Riffster, I thought the white robe reference was a little over the top. :rolleyes:) This is just a discussion of current events in the geocaching world. :rolleyes:

 

The wacky world of web design and development has rapidly zoomed way over the top of head (although I can still crank out HTML by hand like a mother), but I'm sure TPTB could fix it so you can not post multiple finds or attended logs to cache pages in about 5 minutes flat. This has not happened to date, so what happened at this event is not out of line under current unwritten website policy.

 

An interesting thing I've noticed on this event that has not been brought up: The cache page blatently advertises that there were 8 temporary virtual caches available for logging. Virtual caches are no longer allowed on this website! (There were also at least 3 pocket caches, and at least 1 locationless). It would be interesting to know if this cache page was approved with the advertisment of virtual caches, or if that paragraph was "snuck in" after approval.

 

As far as Markwell's post above this one (unless someone hits "submit" before me). I sure don't have an answer. I did attend an event this past weekend with no temp. caches, and got only one attended log for my efforts, and it could be said I had fun. :rolleyes: I've also twice attended a large recurring yearly event that usually has about 10 temporary caches, but always a "one log" policy. I had fun there too.

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I don't think anyone has answered this question:

 

How has an individual logging an event mutliple times detract from anyone else's enjoyment from caching?

I've posted variations of this personal story multiple times in the past; here it is again:

 

In Mississippi back in the '02-'04 timeframe, back when Dan Miller's stat site was still active, we used to have an INFORMAL, FRIENDLY in-state stats competition...no prizes, and plenty of good-natured ribbing about it. There was no Micro Spew back then (and I'm proud to report that in MS we still have very little of it in general...come on down!), and our informal competition encouraged cachers to drive all over the state and crank as many caches as possible. Even among urban caches in our few cities within the state, one could generally be assured of a quality caching experience, so it was about both The Numbers and also about The Fun.

 

One time I found a cache and before completing my processing of it, got sidetracked by some local wildlife. When I returned home to log it, I correctly and honestly reported that I found the cache but failed to sign the logbook. I got SHREDDED (good naturedly) on our local forums for being a "false logger"...for taking a Smiley ONCE on a cache on which I failed to sign the log (and on which I had publicly owned up to it!). Needless to say, I never made THAT mistake again - the peer pressure was too great. In our little Mississippi caching subculture, if you wanted to play the stats game, you played it honestly or you suffered suitable wrath in the public forums. Oh, and if you attended one of our wonderful state Events, you logged it ONCE.

 

With the growth of the game since '04, and the growth of ways in which folks can pump up their stats, either honestly (Urban Micro Spew runs - cheap finds, but honest), or dishonestly (Google caching, pocket caches and other multi-event-log-finding, etc etc), the Stat has become completely de-valued and meaningless. I'm now a Reformed Numbers Ho.

 

I still get as much enjoyment as I can by being selective about my cache hunts (avoiding Spew, logging honestly, etc.), but the de-valuation of the Stat has indeed taken away one aspect of enjoyment from my play of the game. I readily admit it.

 

Anyone else care to admit that they, too, have been similarly affected by the de-valuation of Stats?

 

This is exactly how I feel about the game.

 

I play how I want to, but my stats which were aquired honestly, don't carry their true weight when comparing them to other cachers on pages like the "grand high pobah, or zinnware." I really like www.itsnotaboutthenumbers.com because he processes the data to include how many "unique caches" that you have found.

 

I got an email back from the owner of the event in question, and his reply basically said that he is comfortable logging temporasry caches, because the WGA Wisconsin Geocachers Association Sanctions events just like his. This is living proof that a group that promotes geocaching, and cheating, has a trickle down effect.

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Everything else aside I feel that owners of events that promote multiple visits for events contribute to several server too busy thread complaints. I would be miffed if I found that the server was tied up because of this practice.

recent thread

recent thread

recent thread

recent thread

 

I don't know a darn thing about coding and all the behind the scenes magic but this is a waste of resources - all the emails for each log to the owner, to every one watching the listing - emails bouncing back cauz someone marked it as spam, ect...

 

I am sure that the system can handle things fine but the little things pile up and ultimately effect everyone. You want to log an event multiple times good for you, I feel that it is cheap and tacky.

 

I guess its a peer pressure thing - the host wants everyone to have a good time and everyone else wants to have a good time, it's sad to think that we are that shallow to judge our happieness by a freaking number count and a silly smile face.

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... An interesting thing I've noticed on this event that has not been brought up: The cache page blatently advertises that there were 8 temporary virtual caches available for logging. Virtual caches are no longer allowed on this website! (There were also at least 3 pocket caches, and at least 1 locationless). It would be interesting to know if this cache page was approved with the advertisment of virtual caches, or if that paragraph was "snuck in" after approval.

No need to sneak anything in, we can have any kind of cache at an event we want to have - there are no rules for UNLISTED caches - Groundspeak runs a listing service, not the game of geocaching.

 

Reviewers assure that the event listing meets Groundspeak listing guidelines and no more.

 

Groundspeak is quite aware of multiple event logging and has chosen to allow it, making all these accusations of lying and cheating blatantly false.

 

I readily admit there are a couple hundred Pocket Cache logs in my stats, I don't know anyone that logs them and then denies it, so there is no dishonesty involved.

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Good thing The Numbers Don't Matter.

FUM MATTERS

FUM?? :rolleyes:

 

FUM. Fundimentally Underhanded Methods. :rolleyes:

You dog...you beat me to it (I'm not sure I would have thought of the exact same acronym, but I was thinking right along with you...). :rolleyes:

 

Fum

 

Ya’ll assuming again thinking I misspelled FUM but didn’t, go here [link removed by moderator per the "family friendly" rule] just having a little fun with the good old boys shooting folks or their views down

 

Joe

 

 

I checked out the site you linked...nothing but FILTH!.....SHAME ON YOU.

What else should we expect from sombody who doesn't get the fact that Just because GC.com lets you aquire numbers, that you have to do every sleazy thing in the book to increase them.

Sleazy is as sleazy does.

 

I sure hope that the 'we dont care what you think" attitude doesn't apply to the whole sate of Wi.

That would be just, Cheesy

 

Why are you chastising Joe for linking to the FUM website? :lol: They seem like very nice people. :blink:

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I don't think anyone has answered this question:

 

How has an individual logging an event mutliple times detract from anyone else's enjoyment from caching?

 

I actually think many of us have answered this question by saying it doesn't affect our enjoyment of the game.

 

These are forums, though, and it seems certainly a fair topic for discussion.

 

An equally fair question would be:

 

How does logging an event multiple times enhance the enjoyment of those that do it?

 

In all of these debates about play it your own way, and we're having fun, and cheating and lying, no one on the pro side of multiple logging has explained what exactly about the practice that they enjoy so much. I think that would go a long way in bridging the gap between the two camps. I hear it's not about inflating numbers, but I just can't see any other reason, unless someone truly just likes typing extra logs.

 

Show us where the fun lies in this practice.

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An equally fair question would be:

 

How does logging an event multiple times enhance the enjoyment of those that do it?

 

In all of these debates about play it your own way, and we're having fun, and cheating and lying, no one on the pro side of multiple logging has explained what exactly about the practice that they enjoy so much. I think that would go a long way in bridging the gap between the two camps. I hear it's not about inflating numbers, but I just can't see any other reason, unless someone truly just likes typing extra logs.

 

Show us where the fun lies in this practice.

GREAT counterpoint/question, GHH. I'm looking forward to seeing those replies.

 

Meanwhile, here's my wise-a** reply: What could be more fun than typing all those extra logs...especially on a Sunday evening when the GC.COM website is performing/responding at the peak efficiency that it does at that time??

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The belief that a bigger find count is worth more than a smaller find count is the root of all evil. I can't tell if the "cheaters" are the ones that believe the a bigger find count is worth more or if the "accusers" are the ones that believe a bigger find count is worth more. If a bigger find count isn't worth more than it doesn't matter if someone logs an event multiple times.

 

 

You know, I wasn't gonna post in this thread (heck, I haven't even read most of it. Same 'ol same 'ol) until I saw you (Toz) posted that.

 

 

I've said this before, in another thread, on this same subject, by this same OP. I'll get all riled up and foam at the mouth when someone's perceived questionable find erases one of my own finds. I'm not gonna tax a single brain cell to worry what the other guy is doing until then.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I do recognize some of the potential harm that others go outta their way to rationalize. It just has no affect on my enjoyment of geocaching. To quote Bill Murray in Meatballs: It just does't matter......

 

 

I just have one question for the OP..... Have you appointed yourself Sheriff of Geocaching Town? Cuz, I can't remember the last time you started a topic (in the general forum at least) that wasn't in some way accusatory. :rolleyes: I hafta admit that I don't read every thread so maybe that's just my perception.

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... we can have any kind of cache at an event we want to have - there are no rules for UNLISTED caches - Groundspeak runs a listing service, not the game of geocaching. ...
If we follow your argument to it's conclusion, it would be perfectly OK to go after these temporary caches. However, the finds should not be recorded on GC.com. In the same vein, it is perfectly OK to go after caches listed to NC.com or TC.com, but those finds should not be recorded on GC.com. Why is it OK to log finds on caches not listed on GC.com to GC.com servers? If people want to record their finds for these temporary caches, they should record them to TemporaryCaches.com.
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I play how I want to, but my stats which were aquired honestly, don't carry their true weight when comparing them to other cachers on pages like the "grand high pobah, or zinnware." I really like www.itsnotaboutthenumbers.com because he processes the data to include how many "unique caches" that you have found.

 

Itsnotaboutthenumbers is mighty nice. It helps to put everyone's stats back into perspective...

 

Geocaching is not life or death but it is a hobby/game/sport that has some structure to it. There are some basic guidelines that are adhered to but after those, we can pretty much play how we want. That is, until we get to our stats. There is no gray area here so playing the way you see fit doesn't work. In this case, a person can only attend an event one time. There is absolutely nothing you or i can do to change this. :rolleyes:

 

I have stated before that i like keeping up with my numbers and that i do like to compare with others at times. It's fun for some of us to do that and it really doesn't affect other cachers in the least. Posting fake finds does take away from mine and other's fun in this respect since it makes stats pretty much worthless.

 

Bottom line, posting bogus finds on regular caches and events can and does affect others!

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Bottom line, posting bogus finds on regular caches and events can and does affect others!

 

 

I totally agree with my good friend Mudfrog's last line, but I'll add ONE qualifier to my agreement.

 

 

Bottom line, posting bogus finds on regular caches and events can and does affect others if they choose to let it affect them. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Edited by Snoogans
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I don't think anyone has answered this question:

 

How has an individual logging an event mutliple times detract from anyone else's enjoyment from caching?

 

Let me use a baseball analogy. I enjoy watching baseball. I've watched games that Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa played in.

 

It was later revealed that they were likely using steroids. Though steroid use was not against the rules of baseball at the time, Bonds, McGuire and Sosa are now widely considered cheaters and the records they set, suspect. The stigma was enough to keep McGuire out of the Hall of Fame during the recent vote.

 

The fact that I later found out that they were using steroids didn't affect my enjoyment of those games one bit. But I'm still within my rights to call them cheaters and say what they did was wrong and not good for the game.

 

And their actions affected everyone in the game. Thanks to them, you wonder about everyone who was playing at the time. That guy who had a great year, was it legit or was he "juiced"? You can't look at ANY player without wondering in the back of your mind whether or not he was on steroids when he accomplished something. And that is totally unfair to the guys who played clean.

Edited by briansnat
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If it's sooo much fun logging the finds (even the ones that don't really qualify), why bother to cache at all??? Why not just sit in front of the computer all day logging finds all over the world??? Oh, wait...that's couch potato caching!!

 

Logging multiple finds on an event cheapens the whole sport! I DO look up to those with more finds...and then I feel ripped off when I find that the #1 or #2 (or on and on) cacher in the world cheats to boast his (her) numbers.

 

Would it be alright if I picked up my golf ball and walked it to the green and STILL counted that as my shot?? Even if my golf partners ok it??? EVEN when, after completing my round and find I've beaten the club record and the rest of the golfers in the area look up to me???

 

In a sense, you are right!! This only hurts YOU!!! BUT, but saying that, I discounted the feelings of the guy I robbed of the record and all that look up to the TRUE count of strokes!!

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