Abandoned railroads....

[Blue_Stone]

So you wanna place a cache along an open, abandoned railroad bed....But every online map you can find still has it on the legend as a regular, active railroad.

 

Its obviously NOT active, since the rails and ties are all LONG gone.

 

Any ideas on how to let the reviewers know its NOT active?

 

And, no, I havent had a conflict with a reviewer about this... (yet)...

But I'm planning a hide along one, and I'm pretty sure this will come up.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Blue_stone

[+TrailGators]

So you wanna place a cache along an open, abandoned railroad bed....But every online map you can find still has it on the legend as a regular, active railroad.

 

Its obviously NOT active, since the rails and ties are all LONG gone.

 

Any ideas on how to let the reviewers know its NOT active?

 

And, no, I havent had a conflict with a reviewer about this... (yet)...

But I'm planning a hide along one, and I'm pretty sure this will come up.

How about some photos of the area with your GPS showing the coords....

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Take and send pictures of the area to your Reviewer when you submit the listing.

 

See if it's listed as a Rails-to-Trails site.

 

And, no, I havent had a conflict with a reviewer about this... (yet)...

I suppose you are joking, but the vast majority of Reviewers will bend over backwards to help you get a listing published. Don't go into the relationship excpecting conflict!

[+Ladybug Kids]

So you wanna place a cache along an open, abandoned railroad bed....But every online map you can find still has it on the legend as a regular, active railroad.

 

Its obviously NOT active, since the rails and ties are all LONG gone.

 

Any ideas on how to let the reviewers know its NOT active?

 

And, no, I havent had a conflict with a reviewer about this... (yet)...

But I'm planning a hide along one, and I'm pretty sure this will come up.

How about some photos of the area with your GPS showing the coords....

When you submit your cache page add a note to the "Reviewer Note" box that explains the rails are long gone. Our Chuggah Chuggah!!! cache was approved as placed on an old railroad trestle without problem. There are many "rails to trails" caches out there.

 

Edit after Keystone's post: Forgot to mention...we did verify the right of way was now under jurisdiction of the Alaska Department of Natural Resources.

Edited January 20, 2007 by Ladybug Kids

[Keystone]

It helps greatly if you know who owns the former railroad property. The railroad guideline is first and foremost a trespassing issue (at least in the U.S.). Even if the tracks are not active, the railroad will likely still enforce the trespassing laws, especially at places like trestles and tunnels. In contrast, if the tracks have been removed and the area has been given over to a rails to trails organization, municipal "linear park," etc., then trespassing on railroad property is no longer an issue.

 

Reviewers are quite used to seeing tracks showing up on outdated maps, and then working through the issues with the cache owner. The more information that's provided upfront, the faster your cache gets listed.

[Blue_Stone]

Wow, thanx for the quick responses, especially for being so late in the AM.

 

I forgot to add to the original post that i thought about pics of the trail, with GPS and coords in view. (Use this a lot in benchmarking).

 

Where would i check to see if its a rails-to-trails trail?

 

And no, AR, I wasnt really expecting or planning on conflict. Just thought I would mention it wasnt an issue in case folks thought my topic was in RESPONSE to a reviewer conflict. I posted so i could get ideas and advice to see what others have done, so i could do all the work BEFORE making the reviewer ask me all the details, hence making for a hopefully quicker, less-conflicty approval. The "yet" was meant to be light hearted, and only because I'm positive this issue WILL come up on my listing.

 

And thanx Keystone. I was hoping you would see this and reply. I almost thought about contacting you directly for advice.

 

This is an odd case, I guess. There are NO signs whatsoever anywhere. None stating no tresspassing, none stating what railroad it belonged to, none stating current ownership...nothing.

They are in a very remote area (though you cant tell by the maps), and I know tons of local snowmobilers and ATVers use them. I'm guessing hikers and bikers and horseback riders arent using them because the bed is still gravel.

Well, this is an abandoned line that forks off a currently active railroad a couple miles away from where I want to place the cache, so I guess I'll start by calling the railroad....

(Actually, now that i think about it, THATS probably one reason why its not a rails to trails trail...doh!)

 

Well, thanx for the responses and examples...Keep em coming!

[+briansnat]

Often if you can find out the name of the line that once ran on the tracks, you can find a mention of its demise on some RR buff website. If its a "rails to trails" conversion, there is often an article you can find about its creation somewhere on the web.

 

A photo might also help, but as Keystone mentioned, even if the line is abandoned, it still might be RR property.

If the tracks are gone or totally overgrown that will probably help your case.

Edited January 20, 2007 by briansnat

[+wimseyguy]

It's been my experience that you usually have to earn the reviewer's mistrust, not the other way around. Just be upfront in your communications and do your homework before submitting the cache.

[+palmetto]

I routinely use county tax appraiser's websites to determine property ownership. Many of them have all their data available online, and are using a clickable county map. Click the map in the area, zoom in, click zoom - enable the layers with roads, and property boundaries, and eventually start asking for ownership data. A bit of an initial learning curve, but pretty easy really. You agree to the terms (read them?) and often have to allow pop ups from the site, as the actual ownership info will usually come up in a pop-up window. Of Florida's 67 counties, I've only encountered 2 where the ownership data was not (yet) available online. I would expect this to be true all over the country as the cost of site creation and maintenance is nominal and the savings in employee time at their physical offices is considerable.

[FlagFinder]

take a picture of the tracks if they are polished they were used recently if not then they havnt

[+wimseyguy]

take a picture of the tracks if they are polished they were used recently if not then they havnt

Its obviously NOT active, since the rails and ties are all LONG gone.

Could be kinda tough in this case. And I think if the rails are[/] still there that the trespassing issue still remains, no matter how recently they have been used.

[+Trucker Lee]

try google for the rails to trails thing. use your state or town, and rails to trails. often on old maps, the railroads are marked as to owner (atsf, uprr, sprr, etc. )

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

take a picture of the tracks if they are polished they were used recently if not then they havnt

Its obviously NOT active, since the rails and ties are all LONG gone.

Could be kinda tough in this case. And I think if the rails are[/] still there that the trespassing issue still remains, no matter how recently they have been used.

Exactly, in my experience thr RR always pulls the rails and ties when they abandon a line.

[+ironman114]

take a picture of the tracks if they are polished they were used recently if not then they havnt

Its obviously NOT active, since the rails and ties are all LONG gone.

Could be kinda tough in this case. And I think if the rails are[/] still there that the trespassing issue still remains, no matter how recently they have been used.

Exactly, in my experience thr RR always pulls the rails and ties when they abandon a line.

 

 

Hmmm... Seems they have lost these rails then:

 

 

Rails but no ties.

 

 

Rails go off into the trees.

 

 

One of two abandoned RR bridges. Note the trees growing between the rails at the far end.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

take a picture of the tracks if they are polished they were used recently if not then they havnt

Its obviously NOT active, since the rails and ties are all LONG gone.

Could be kinda tough in this case. And I think if the rails are[/] still there that the trespassing issue still remains, no matter how recently they have been used.

Exactly, in my experience thr RR always pulls the rails and ties when they abandon a line.

 

 

Hmmm... Seems they have lost these rails then:

 

 

Rails but no ties.

 

 

Rails go off into the trees.

 

 

One of two abandoned RR bridges. Note the trees growing between the rails at the far end.

 

Note Bold Underlined part above, there is a reason I chose those words.

[+ironman114]

Note Bold Underlined part above, there is a reason I chose those words.

 

And now you have experienced seeing where they haven't removed the Rails and ties.

 

I will be placing a cache there and you can come find it and then you will see the rails first hand.

[FlagFinder]

noticed how the rails dont look shiney polished like they havent been used for a while

[+wimseyguy]

And I'm sure all of this debate has been very helpful to the OP as it really relates to the situation he has asked about.

[FlagFinder]

lol its amazing how one thing leads to another ...we're still talking about railroads though

[+Renegade Knight]

...Exactly, in my experience thr RR always pulls the rails and ties when they abandon a line.

I had thought they pulled the rails and ties before they turned it over to someone else. Until then I thought they just let them rot in piece.

 

As an aside, the UPRR here in my town tried to abandon a portion of their ROW. The goverment said "No". You gotta love politics. Though in this case I agree with their logic. That section of ROW doesn't have rails on it. It was for the purpose of obtaining water for the steam locomotives. There is a trail, some abandoned structures and some caches in the area. Never was any rail.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

Note Bold Underlined part above, there is a reason I chose those words.

 

And now you have experienced seeing where they haven't removed the Rails and ties.

 

I will be placing a cache there and you can come find it and then you will see the rails first hand.

 

I love railroads, I don't like seeing any of them abandoned. Hide your cache, and hopefully someday I will find it.

[FlagFinder]

u should talk to burlington northern lol maybe they will let you hide a cache on a train but it would be moving but that would be so cool! you could have hobos in your cache

[+mamid]

true story:

when my mother was in school, her teacher dragged everyone to the woods one day to show them an "abandonned" railway. My mother took one look at the rails and pronounced them live. Teacher didn't believe her so the kids all piled into the school bus and waited.

 

Teacher didn't argue with her anymore when the train went by about 20 minutes later. My grandfather was a steam engine enthusiast and his favorite was steam train engines so he had passed on that information to his children and grandchildren about the rails being shiny not rusted. I've had a similar argument with one of my teachers too, but we didn't sit around to wait.

[FlagFinder]

shiney rule helps a lot doesnt it

[+mamid]

yup.

it also means that if you find a shiny rail when you're lost in the wilderness, you can follow it - not on the track, but beside it - and it will eventually take you to a road or other signs of civilization.

[IronMaiden]

Quote: Ironman114

Hmmm... Seems they have lost these rails then:

 

 

Rails but no ties.

 

 

Rails go off into the trees.

 

 

One of two abandoned RR bridges. Note the trees growing between the rails at the far end.

 

Hey!!! That's our son on those rails . Looks like he's walking the "iron" like someone I know.

 

I've been on this old rail road it's really a neat place. Has a couple of nice waterfalls under the bridges.

Edited January 25, 2007 by IronMaiden