Warning for Seekers of Water Caches in Cold Temperatures

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Earlier this morning I posted a cautionary note on several of our cache listing pages for anyone considering seeking any of our water-based caches in the next few months, or in fact, any water caches located on local rivers or the bay in the Maryland/PA/DC/VA area. After posting my note to the cache listing pages for our water caches and to our local Maryland Geocaching Society forum as well, I realized that much of the northern US also has cold waters at this time of year, and so my warning note is hardly limited in scope only to the Maryland area. And hence, I have decided to reproduce my post here as well, and so here is some cautionary information for you if you are planning on seeking caches on cold waters this time of year:

 

Despite the unnaturally warm winter weather which we have largely enjoyed so far this winter season in the USA, data collected by USGS for local rivers and the bay in the MD/PA/DC/VA area show that the average water temperatures in this area are currently about 40 degrees F. If you are a seasoned canoeist or kayaker, you are likely aware of the dangers of even a very brief immersion in water at any water temperature below about 60F. Aside from hypothermia, which can incapacitate the muscles of a healthy adult within minutes of immersion, there is an even greater danger from what is known as “cold shock” syndrome, which can kill immediately. Cold shock is an involuntary expulsion of air and inhalation of cold water when the body hits cold water, resulting in drowning in most cases. Trained and experienced canoeists and kayakers will not even consider venturing out on a boat in water temperatures below 60F (many experts cite any temps below 65F as a more reasonable limit) without wearing a dry suit or a wetsuit.

 

For water temperatures such as we are currently seeing, most canoeists and kayakers will simply not venture out on the water at all, due to the temperature, and, if they do, will insist upon wearing a thick wetsuit (including booties and insulated gloves) and hood or a very heavy-duty dry suit plus booties and insulated gloves. Further, risks are always much higher in a canoe or traditional sit-inside kayak, since both are sit-inside (SI) boats, and not only is there a very large chance of tipping the boat, but SI boats are notoriously difficult to re-enter from the water, even for persons who have received extensive re-entry training. In contrast, sit-on-top (SOT) kayaks and canoes, such as most inflatables, are far more stable on the water due to their greater buoyancy, making it much harder to tip the boat, and if a boater does end up in the water, it is much easier to re-enter a SOT canoe or kayak than a traditional SI boat.

 

For more info, there is an excellent article on cold water immersion and hypothermia at the Potomac River Safety Committee website, at http://www.rowpbc.net/safety.php and some good articles on both hypothermia and cold shock at http://www.ccpac.org/safety/cold-water-shock.html and http://www.enter.net/~skimmer/coldwater.html .

Bottom line: If you are even REMOTELY considering going out on the cold river waters at this time of year, please dress appropriately and be sure you have extensive training and wet practice in how to re-enter your boat (not as important for SI boats, as reentering is as easy as grabbing the far side of the boat and swinging your hips into the boat.)

 

So, if you plan on seeking any of water caches on cold water at this time of year, please be careful and be safe!

Edited January 19, 2007 by Vinny & Sue Team

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Thanks for the reminder and the links Vinnie and Sue. We'll be adding warnings to a couple of our caches as the temps continue to drop here. Having learned firsthand a painful lesson in just crossing a creek while winter-caching last year we'd also like to remind everyone to wear appropriate gear as the late winter arrives. Things would have gone much differently had we not both been wearing good synthetics and layering when I fell in. Good time to start making a habit of caching with a partner, too.

[+Jhwk]

uhm, Duh? or Ner?

 

trying to find a way to insolate my butt (other than fat) so I can find my next closest caches. 3/4 are water borne caches and require a boot... or my kayak.

 

Think I'll wait for all of the ice to melt. Oh wait, there's another snow storm headed for the ozarks. great

 

nothing like being without power for a week to make you appreciate electricity.

[+NorthWes]

Very informative and well-done post.

 

I sold some flashing beacons to a village yesterday near Bristol Bay Alaska that's trying to mark the perimeter of an open area (that stays open at all air temps due to water flow and thermal action) on a lake bordering one of their major snowmobile trails. They've lost 4 people to the water there in the wintertime in the last 7 years. Generally, if you go into the water without a partner along to help you out and to get you changed/warmed up, you're done for.

 

While I enjoy the mobility winter provides here in Alaska in the form of snow and the deep freeze, I'm not a big fan of crossing 'stiff' water on foot or by snowmobile alone. One trip thru the ice on a stream (aboard a snowmobile, four feet down I went!) was all it took to cure me of taking the frozen water's loadcarrying abilities for granted! Without my partner along, I'd have had a hard time getting out of the hole, and would've never gotten back to the cabin before freezing up (he hauled me back two and a half miles at -20; my clothing was too frozen to get off right away inside the 80 degree cabin when we arrived). Bunny boots kept my feet ok during the ride back, and the polypro & fleece next to my skin weren't frozen yet... The snowmobile recovery later that day was a real bear of a task, but sheer legs, a hoist, and another dip (with safety line) into the water got 'er done. The machine had to be towed back, and I made a second mad dash back to the safety of the cabin to rethaw. Didn't get even a third as wet on the second dip, but I was worn down enough so that I was useless the rest of the day. What saved my bacon was I never ingested water or went below my shoulders... and the stream wasn't flowing very fast - and my partner was quick as lightning and knew how to get me out.

 

I tell folks the backcountry begins here where you step off the road, and you should never travel without a saavy partner.

[+CYBret]

I hope this isn't a repeat in this thread, I'm on dial-up right now and haven't checked all the links, but this video is very informative when it comes to this kind of stuff.

 

Bret

[+Tahoein' Bunch]

here In Ca. we have a few rivers and such and irrigatin canals but nothing i could even imagine as being stuck in ice coverd water sheeeeesh i get cold thinking about it.

 

Greg

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Very informative and well-done post.

 

I sold some flashing beacons to a village yesterday near Bristol Bay Alaska that's trying to mark the perimeter of an open area (that stays open at all air temps due to water flow and thermal action) on a lake bordering one of their major snowmobile trails. They've lost 4 people to the water there in the wintertime in the last 7 years. Generally, if you go into the water without a partner along to help you out and to get you changed/warmed up, you're done for.

 

While I enjoy the mobility winter provides here in Alaska in the form of snow and the deep freeze, I'm not a big fan of crossing 'stiff' water on foot or by snowmobile alone. One trip thru the ice on a stream (aboard a snowmobile, four feet down I went!) was all it took to cure me of taking the frozen water's loadcarrying abilities for granted! Without my partner along, I'd have had a hard time getting out of the hole, and would've never gotten back to the cabin before freezing up (he hauled me back two and a half miles at -20; my clothing was too frozen to get off right away inside the 80 degree cabin when we arrived). Bunny boots kept my feet ok during the ride back, and the polypro & fleece next to my skin weren't frozen yet... The snowmobile recovery later that day was a real bear of a task, but sheer legs, a hoist, and another dip (with safety line) into the water got 'er done. The machine had to be towed back, and I made a second mad dash back to the safety of the cabin to rethaw. Didn't get even a third as wet on the second dip, but I was worn down enough so that I was useless the rest of the day. What saved my bacon was I never ingested water or went below my shoulders... and the stream wasn't flowing very fast - and my partner was quick as lightning and knew how to get me out.

 

I tell folks the backcountry begins here where you step off the road, and you should never travel without a saavy partner.

Thanks for a great post. When I go diving or boating in cold water, that is, any water where the water temp is below 65F, I wear one or two layers of synthetic outdoor "dry" longjohns and kakaking socks under my 3 mm wetsuit, and then two layers of "dry" synthetic outdoor outerwear over the wetsuit, along with neoprene booties, gloves and hood. In fact, the experts on cold weather boating with whom I correspond stress that what I have described above is still GROSSLY insufficient for dealing with short-term immersion in waters much below 50 F!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I hope this isn't a repeat in this thread, I'm on dial-up right now and haven't checked all the links, but this video is very informative when it comes to this kind of stuff.

 

Bret

Hmm... the link which you sent was actually for a Stress Test site at Discovery Channel, and not about cold-water safety when boating...!

[+CYBret]

I hope this isn't a repeat in this thread, I'm on dial-up right now and haven't checked all the links, but this video is very informative when it comes to this kind of stuff.

 

Bret

Hmm... the link which you sent was actually for a Stress Test site at Discovery Channel, and not about cold-water safety when boating...!

 

Actually the "stress test" is an advertisement. Let the video load on the left side. Hopefully you've got the right plug-in.

 

It's not about boating, but rather about falling through the ice. It's an interesting video where a doctor lets himself fall through the ice and then shows you how to get back out.

 

We've got a couple caches in our area that are meant to get you out into some shallow water. I've heard a few people say they're going to wait until the water freezes and walk out to them. I hope they know what they're doing.

 

Bret

[+StarBrand]

I'm sorry - I am just feeling rather sarcastic right now.....

 

Are we really warning people that water is cold during winter weather??

[+ThePropers]

I'm sorry - I am just feeling rather sarcastic right now.....

 

Are we really warning people that water is cold during winter weather??

 

What has become of us? On the plus side this has nothing to do with micros, lampost hides, changing a username, bringing back virtuals, or the appropriateness of logging multiple finds.

 

On another note, it is dangerous to climb trees in all types of weather. And even if it's really hot out, it's possible to drink too much water and die.

 

However, I applaud V&S on the safety lesson. Everyday the news is filled with stupid people doing stupid things, so we should never assume people will know enough to stay out of the water in freezing temperatures.

Edited January 19, 2007 by ThePropers

[+StarBrand]

I actully do appreciate the reminder for those that can get a little caught up in the hunt and not pay much attention to anything else. Water is quite hazardous this time of year.

 

The question just haunted me for a while so I had to post it.

[+Woodlit]

I did find that video CYBret linked to, to be very informative.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

I'm sorry - I am just feeling rather sarcastic right now.....

 

Are we really warning people that water is cold during winter weather??

 

Yea, my first impulse was to think "Duh", but then I reminded myself that many people who get into geocaching may have no experience with the outdoors, so this post is actually a great idea.

[Pnerissa]

I live here in Florida and hid a cache just last weekend out on one of the islands. The water temp was 65, but I still wore my wetsuit while paddling my kayak. Mainly because I can't stand the cold and definitely didn't want to risk capsizing and being cold AND wet. I'm a southern girl, so I freeze below 70. I'd never make it in a northern state.

 

And in reference to the comment from The Propers about falling out of a tree in any weather, yep, I pulled that feat off the weekend before last as well. Tried climbing a wet tree and fell smack out of it. Just got over-excited about inspecting my own cache. *sigh* Think I got a hairline fracture of the knee, but I'm okay.

 

Neri

Edited January 20, 2007 by Pnerissa

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I'm sorry - I am just feeling rather sarcastic right now.....

 

Are we really warning people that water is cold during winter weather??

 

What has become of us? On the plus side this has nothing to do with micros, lampost hides, changing a username, bringing back virtuals, or the appropriateness of logging multiple finds.

 

On another note, it is dangerous to climb trees in all types of weather. And even if it's really hot out, it's possible to drink too much water and die.

 

However, I applaud V&S on the safety lesson. Everyday the news is filled with stupid people doing stupid things, so we should never assume people will know enough to stay out of the water in freezing temperatures.

Interestingly, what prompted me to write that cautionary note was that I am aware of several cases lately where local geocachers went out on canoes or kayaks on 40 F water and wore no protective gear. In one case, three experienced geocachers who are also experienced outdoorspeople spilled their canoe in 38F river water a couple of weeks ago while seeking one of my caches, and while wearing no coldwater protective gear. Likely the main thing that saved them was that they spilled the canoe in water only 3.5 feet deep. In another case, even more recently, I learned that a geofriend of ours made several trips on the bay in 40 F waters in a SI kayak wearing no coldwater protective gear. He simply hoped that he would not take a spill into the water. I firmly believe in the maxim "to each their own way", but to me, this is pushing the danger line a bit too far.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I'm sorry - I am just feeling rather sarcastic right now.....

 

Are we really warning people that water is cold during winter weather??

 

More like reminding people of the consequences of even a little exposure. I was only crossing about a foot and a half of water, but when that birch tree I was holding onto came right out of the bank.... 10 seconds later I'm climbing up the bank towards Fox (who's trying desperately not to laugh since it was about 20 below) with water from my hat to my boots on one side of my body and a seriously banged up knee. Add that to being a mile into the woods and it's suddenly not such a dumb warning It wasn't even a water cache, but it's a good reminder to dress properly.

[+briansnat]

This lady is not afraid of a little cold water.

[Neos2]

Two years ago, I met a bunch of geocachers for a great little hike through the woods. The high for the day was 40 °F, and the weather was alternately sleeting, hailing, or snowing. At the end of the day, we took a canoe across a partially frozen creek to get to the last long, steeply graded hill.

 

We had to take turns crossing the creek. Luckily for everyone else concerned, I was the first one in the canoe on one trip across. You got it, I tipped myself into the creek near shore in water about waist deep on me. Luckily for me, no one panicked, although there was a canoe between me and the land at that point, and even after the canoe could be moved, the bank there was slippery with mud, and a bit too high for me to just step out. I spent about 10 minutes in the water before I could get out, and it was a fascinating experience. Since I was stuck there anyway, I opted to focus on examining the experience.

 

My legs felt too heavy and too numb to move easily. There were tree roots near the bank, and my foot became tangled in them. I had to really focus on them to "feel" where I was putting my feet. I had to make a conscious effort to move my legs and I had to tell myself to unbend my knees to rise up to the shore (holding on to someone's arm for leverage). I realized that had I been alone in that situation and/or had I gone completely underwater, there might have come a point where I decided it was just easier to let the water take me than to keep trying to fight. I finally understood how people could drown in relatively shallow cold water.

 

Obviously, I did get out. Naturally, walking back several miles in wet clothes was not an option at that point, so I quickly went back into the canoe to cross the creek. I certainly was aware of the continuing risk of hypothermia at that point. The walk up the steep grade with soggy clothes was not easy, either. Wet clothes weigh a lot. Even when wet, woolblend "longjohns" keep in some body heat, and I was also wearing several layers of mostly dry clothing on my upper body, including a waterproof jacket which held the wind off my torso. If I had been smarter, I would not have also been wearing blue jeans (bad outer layer choice!).

 

At that point shelter and warmth were a must, so I headed up the hill. I had two people walk up the hill with me (Thanks Torry and Mrs. Geode Hunter) giving me pep talks to keep going--I was quickly becoming exhausted; it's a good thing the trip was less than a mile as the hill was very steep. I felt as though I was taking baby steps the entire way. A third person (thanks Chuck!) met me partway up the hill to whisk me to a truck with the heater blasting-- and from there to pick up a warm blanket and head to my car, where some dry clothes and a thermos of hot coffee waited. (Note: mulled cider or cocoa/chocolate or even soup might have been a better choice, but coffee worked to provide internal heat).

 

By the time my husband got to the car, I was begining to feel warm again, although weary. It made a great story to tell my high school students, perhaps making them slightly more aware of the risks of cool weather and cold water. Most of us expect the worst in temperatures below freezing, few of us realize how dangerous cool weather can be.

 

Most hypothermia events happen in 40-50°F temps, and usually involve either alchol or extended outdoor activity. Alcohol dulls the sense of being cold, and admittedly many of these cases involve chronic alcholics who are homeless. But it's a good idea to remind outdoor sport enthusiasts that normal body temp is near 100°F and a 40-50° difference can add up quickly--add water to that, and you lose body heat 25 times faster.

[+tomfuller & Quill]

Any of you who want to come to central Oregon in February are welcome to visit the "Clear Lake Cabin Fever 3rd Edition" Event cache GCZNYJ. Here you will see Odder doing a polar bear swim for the third year in a row.

Last year 2 men joined her in the 32.5 degree water for several minutes.

Later in February 2006 PMOGUY did his second polar bear swim of the month as he pushed me in a small inflatable to Chatham Island in the Columbia River. Some people were shocked that we could find cache 2925 in the winter.

Tom Fuller

[+CYBret]

I've come close to hypothermia a time or two. It's amazing how stupid you get and how fast you get there when the cold hits.

 

I tell some of the story in this article and found this interesting bit of hypothermia advice while doing the research:

Hypothermia kills because most people never realize they are experiencing it until it is too late. How can you tell if you're at the critical juncture when cold is becoming a killer? Try touching your thumb to your little finger on the same hand. One of the first signs of hypothermia is trouble with dexterity. If you have difficulty passing this simple test it's time to get inside and get warm.

 

Bret

[+escondido100]

speaking of stupid things people do...here in hawaii you can pay money to swim with lava.....check it out!!!

 

this is really frowned upon around here...those gasses are very toxic and the shelf of lava caves in almost daily.......ps there are a few caches near here.

Edited January 20, 2007 by escondido100