Fun with DNF's

[+CM-14]

Does anyone else find a preverse pleasure when DNF's are logged on a cache that they went out of there way to make difficult?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

No, DNFs suck.

 

I have a cache that is extremely difficult to find (Rambler's Only Micro); most finders need a hint, so I publish my phone number on the listing so they don't waste a trip!

 

I also serve as a phone-a-friend for caches in my area and get anywhere from 2 to 5 calls a day from cachers that need a clue.

 

Only one cache owner has asked that clues not be given on one of his multis... we're like that in the South, caching should be friendly and fun, not a PITA!

[+AStargirl]

I think I would kind of enjoy it (as long as there weren't too many DNFs) if my intent was to make it difficult. I wouldn't hesitate to offer hints to anyone that e-mailed me or logged having a lot of trouble though.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Yes and no. Yes we enjoy knowing that our Got Skills? series caches are difficult and have often taken more than one try sometimes to accomplish. But we don't enjoy seeing repeated failure or a cacher just plain giving up. They're not for everyone though and they're rated difficult for a reason. We're happy to do a walk-along or give out a phone number, too. We went through many days of work setting them up so we aren't too bothered by roughly half the logs being DNFs. We enjoy most when we see a couple DNFs by the same cacher followed by a Found It and a great log proclaiming their skills! It seems most have taken their DNFs in stride and their finds are often bragged about later more so for just that reason.

[+johninvandergrift]

I view DNF's as validation for caches that are meant to be hard finds. In regards to your question about a "perverse pleasure" from DNF's........I view them as "treats" handed out to cache hiders for well hidden caches. So yes, I guess I get a little pleasure from them.

[+StarBrand]

I generally try to make my caches findable by anybody that is really looking. However, I have gone out of my way to make a few a bit tougher. 1 or 2 DNF in a row - just bad luck - 3 or more and I better check on it. No - I never find any "pleasure" in a DNF. Not while seeking and not as an owner.

[+RockyRaab]

Lately, I've been concentrating on making my caches out of the ordinary. I thought the first unusual one I created would be a real booger to find, but it's never logged a DNF. I lowered the difficulty rating on that account. The most recent one is even more devilish, and one cacher logged that he'd made four trips to find it. After a clue from me, he finally did log a smilie - with a real compliment about how clever the cache is.

 

I think I'd like to see perhaps one DNF for every ten smilies or so, just to reinforce my cache-crafting skills. That would be a pleasure, but I don't think it's a perverse one.

[+Bill & Tammy]

Most of my hides are fairly easily found, especially by those with some caching experience. However there is one cache I have which has eluded everyone without assistance. Still waiting for someone to find it unaided. And yes, I do get a kick out of the DNF's on it.

[+RockyRaab]

Bill and Tammy,

 

Off topic, but may I offer my congratulations for what is perhaps the best, clearest written cache page description it has been my pleasure to read. Thank you.

[+Bluejaytoo]

Yep, I love seeing the occasional DNF; it tells me I've done my job. I have one cache that a few folks have ignored my warnings and tried to access it from a pretty dangerous approach. Some actually made it, some wised up and reconsidered. My ultimate dream is to hide a cache that results in a year's worth of DNF logs, with an occasional note posted by me: "Yes, it's still there." For that I would leave a very valuable FTF prize.

[+Kit Fox]

I derive great pleasure reading the DNFs from those cachers that actually admit to DNFing on my cache Exponentially Declining Impulses. The main thing about this cache is that it isn't a "needle in the haystack" hide, it is a well crafted container.

 

I find no pleasure or have no patience for cachers that hide nano caches in Ivy or nanocaches in large bushes. This is not fun.

[+briansnat]

Does anyone else find a preverse pleasure when DNF's are logged on a cache that they went out of there way to make difficult?

 

I place my caches with the point of being found, so when I see a DNF I see it as a failure on my part.

[bogleman]

Many can hide a micro/small that can be a challenge to find & bring in many DNF's. Hide a large or regular cache and stump people then we can talk.

[+sbell111]

Does anyone else find a preverse pleasure when DNF's are logged on a cache that they went out of there way to make difficult?

 

I place my caches with the point of being found, so when I see a DNF I see it as a failure on my part.

I agree. For that reason, I almost always email DNFers to see what the problem was and see if they want a hint.

[+TetrAmigos]

Yesterday I went out of my way to hit a 1/1 park-n-grab on the way to a client meeting. Based on the cache, description, type and comments I figured exactly what the others did.. it'd be a quick grab and just the right amount of positive energy buzz I would need to get to my client meeting ready to close the deal.

 

Wrong. I got DNF'ed on what was "reportedly" a very easy cache. Frankly, I love a DNF.. if I deserve it. If the cache was well-placed, the difficulty level proper and the hint an actual hint and I still can't find it? Well done, cache-placer. However, when I visit a cache and find that the cache was poorly placed (in this case, an area where the placer should have known the landscape maintenance would dislodge and likely throw out the cache), place it somewhere else! The worst part was the hint: "It's in the most obvious location...really!" Even some of the early experienced cache finders teased the cache placer about the hint.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Does anyone else find a preverse pleasure when DNF's are logged on a cache that they went out of there way to make difficult?

No. While I do not mind logging DNFs myself and do not mind seeing others log DNFs, I would prefer that other geocachers manage to find the cache, even if it is very tough.

[+wimseyguy]

Some of my caches are harder to find than others. Yes, I do get a bit of a giggle when a DNF is posted to those. I imagine that the dozen watchers on one of them also smile at the DNF's.

Done correctly it is almost a park n grab so it isn't like I led them on the Battan Death March, just to log a DNF.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Does anyone else find a preverse pleasure when DNF's are logged on a cache that they went out of there way to make difficult?

 

I place my caches with the point of being found, so when I see a DNF I see it as a failure on my part.

I agree. For that reason, I almost always email DNFers to see what the problem was and see if they want a hint.

 

Darn it, I just admitted to agreeing with him most of the time I don't see how a DNF should be seen as a failure at all for the cache setter. We go for caches that involve some exercise and a challenge. If every challenge were easy to overcome they wouldn't really be challenges at all. We want a challenge and we try to give others a challenge as well.

[+Team Perks]

I hide them so that they can be found...even my difficult ones. I see no sense in feeling smug when someone can't find my cache.

[+sbell111]

Does anyone else find a preverse pleasure when DNF's are logged on a cache that they went out of there way to make difficult?

I place my caches with the point of being found, so when I see a DNF I see it as a failure on my part.

I agree. For that reason, I almost always email DNFers to see what the problem was and see if they want a hint.

Darn it, I just admitted to agreeing with him most of the time I don't see how a DNF should be seen as a failure at all for the cache setter. We go for caches that involve some exercise and a challenge. If every challenge were easy to overcome they wouldn't really be challenges at all. We want a challenge and we try to give others a challenge as well.

The thing is, I sometimes get bummed when I can't make the find. Therefore, I figure that other people may get bummed if they can't find my cache. I get a little paranoid when a see a DNF because I'm afraid that it might by my fault.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I hide them so that they can be found...even my difficult ones. I see no sense in feeling smug when someone can't find my cache.

 

That doesn't seem to make any sense. You've hidden 4.5 and 5 star difficulty caches. It seems like you enjoy providing a challenge, too. I hope I get to do some of yours so I can see what you mean though.

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Does anyone else find a preverse pleasure when DNF's are logged on a cache that they went out of there way to make difficult?

I place my caches with the point of being found, so when I see a DNF I see it as a failure on my part.

I agree. For that reason, I almost always email DNFers to see what the problem was and see if they want a hint.

Darn it, I just admitted to agreeing with him most of the time I don't see how a DNF should be seen as a failure at all for the cache setter. We go for caches that involve some exercise and a challenge. If every challenge were easy to overcome they wouldn't really be challenges at all. We want a challenge and we try to give others a challenge as well.

The thing is, I sometimes get bummed when I can't make the find. Therefore, I figure that other people may get bummed if they can't find my cache. I get a little paranoid when a see a DNF because I'm afraid that it might by my fault.

 

That's my point though. If everything tasted just as good as chocolate cake (or the kryptonite of your choice) then why bother with the effort of making a great cake? Wait, let's try a different one. Why bother camoflaging a cache if you want it to be found no matter what. The doing is the reward. The more effort put in, the more rewarding the experience. I want people to spend at least a fraction of the many hours we put into our caches enjoying them. The very definition of a 4.5 (which you have placed) claims that you should be ready to put in as much as a day or more to complete (that seems to indicate a DNF for not finding it the first time out is pretty normal). Do you just mean DNF's that are completely given up on? We all know we record DNF's differently (if some do at all) so is that a big factor?

Edited January 11, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+Team Perks]

I hide them so that they can be found...even my difficult ones. I see no sense in feeling smug when someone can't find my cache.

 

That doesn't seem to make any sense. You've hidden 4.5 and 5 star difficulty caches. It seems like you enjoy providing a challenge, too. I hope I get to do some of yours so I can see what you mean though.

I don't think wanting people to find a 4-star cache is contradiction. When I hide a difficult cache, I want people to enjoy the success of finding it. That doesn't necessarily mean I have to make it easy...I know I get a much greater thrill out of finding a really clever cache than finding a really easy cache, and I'm sure most other cachers would feel the same.

 

I also know it's frustrating to search and fail. Why would I want to enjoy knowing that others went through that experience?

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I hide them so that they can be found...even my difficult ones. I see no sense in feeling smug when someone can't find my cache.

 

That doesn't seem to make any sense. You've hidden 4.5 and 5 star difficulty caches. It seems like you enjoy providing a challenge, too. I hope I get to do some of yours so I can see what you mean though.

I don't think wanting people to find a 4-star cache is contradiction. When I hide a difficult cache, I want people to enjoy the success of finding it. That doesn't necessarily mean I have to make it easy...I know I get a much greater thrill out of finding a really clever cache than finding a really easy cache, and I'm sure most other cachers would feel the same.

 

I also know it's frustrating to search and fail. Why would I want to enjoy knowing that others went through that experience?

 

We don't want them to fail, we want them to overcome and enjoy the reward more so because they overcame delays and/or failure. When we look back at our caches' logs the best adventures recorded seem to often involve a DNF followed by a victorious giddiness. We've had the privilege to meet some of these cachers while on maintenance runs. On more than one occassion we've been told by cachers who were hung up on a tough part "NO...NOOO NOO, don't help us! We want to do this ourselves." Sometimes those meetings are followed by a DNF and usually later with a Found It. Sometimes they're even followed by a email asking for a hint as to when we'll do another at least that hard or harder. Seems likes it's working so far.

 

edit fer 2 spell

Edited January 11, 2007 by fox-and-the-hound

[+sbell111]

That's my point though. If everything tasted just as good as chocolate cake (or the kryptonite of your choice) then why bother with the effort of making a great cake? Wait, let's try a different one. Why bother camoflaging a cache if you want it to be found no matter what. The doing is the reward. The more effort put in, the more rewarding the experience. I want people to spend at least a fraction of the many hours we put into our caches enjoying them. The very definition of a 4.5 (which you have placed) claims that you should be ready to put in as much as a day or more to complete (that seems to indicate a DNF for not finding it the first time out is pretty normal). Do you just mean DNF's that are completely given up on? We all know we record DNF's differently (if some do at all) so is that a big factor?

I'm not even sure that I know what I mean. That being said, my higher difficulty caches take more work before you leave the house to decrypt the clues. If you get the decryption correct, they become fairly simple multis. My virt is difficult because I don't give you much of an idea what you are looking for and its impossible to get really good sat reception in the area. However, a wily finder will ask a cast member once they are close and receive additional help.

 

I realize that my feelings and my actions are a little different on this one. I don't hide ultra-camoed caches, but I provide those containers to others. I don't care to find puzzle caches, but I've owned two that have been well received. I'm a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside a knock-knock joke.

Edited January 11, 2007 by sbell111

[Clan Riffster]

I enjoy a good DNF when I'm the one doing the searching, but I don't like folks having to walk away from my hides empty handed. I use some fairly intense physical camo, which often leads folks to have to rely on their poking stick to locate my ammo cans, so I try and include fairly obvious hints.

[+Bill & Tammy]

Bill and Tammy,

 

Off topic, but may I offer my congratulations for what is perhaps the best, clearest written cache page description it has been my pleasure to read. Thank you.

 

Thanks, good to know a cache is appreciated on any level.

[+Metaphor]

Some people revel in the "evil" cache, designed to frustrate the searcher. Some people enjy the challenge of being frustrated by "evil" caches. I don't. I like to take a good walk, see some interesting territory, or enjoy something out of the ordinary. Searching ground zero for hours looking for a woodland micro or a super-camoflaged container slows down my purpose for going. I do like multi-caches that go for miles, especially if I can keep the pace up through the walk. 15-30 minutes finding a stage-- no problem. Two hours... eh. A dnf is a buzz-kill. Secondly, a string of dnf's on a cache, even a high difficulty rated one, makes me wonder if it is there, or whether I'm just not seeing it. I've got enough frustration in my world; I really don't want to add more just for someone else's "perverse pleasure." I want you to find my caches.

[+ePeterso2]

I had a DNF on one of my caches yesterday that made me smile.

 

If you just blindly follow the GPS arrow, you will get within 200' of the container (in fact, thousands of cars every day unwittingly get that close to it), but unless you're willing to swim and brave alligators and chemical runoff from a nearby major road, you won't get any closer that way. You've got to go a mile out of your way to find the high-and-dry access road leading to it. The hint gives you a clue on how to find the access point, but it intentionally has a double meaning to it - only one of the two meanings is consistent with the guidance given in the description, the other is completely contradictory.

 

Here's the log entry from the guy who chose the wrong interpretation. I've met him ... he's a good guy. He'll have a good laugh when he figures it out.

Edited January 12, 2007 by ePeterso2

[+Jhwk]

Does anyone else find a preverse pleasure when DNF's are logged on a cache that they went out of there way to make difficult?

 

I place my caches with the point of being found, so when I see a DNF I see it as a failure on my part.

BINGO!

 

I put them there to be found also. Of course, if I wanted to be a deviant I could. I just want folks to find and enjoy the experience.

[+sbell111]

snip

Edited January 12, 2007 by sbell111

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I hide them so that they can be found...even my difficult ones. I see no sense in feeling smug when someone can't find my cache.

Exactly! Same here!

[+Harry Dolphin]

'Perverse pleasure'? That's sad, and perhaps sick. I have done some of those. If most of the people who log the cache tell you that the coordinates are 170' off, then change the coordinates! Unless you're getting perverse pleasure from it. Then I suggest a psychiatrist.

Some of mine are easy; some are challenging; some are evil. There is no pleasure in seeing DNFs. I'll offer hints to any who ask (after FTF). They are meant to be challenging, but there is no pleasure in a DNF posted.

[+4leafclover]

As long as a cache is rated accurately, i do not mind, nor do I feel shame in, logging a DNF. It is a cache rated a 1-1.5 that I spend hours searching for that frustrates me. Then I imagine the owner laughing maniacally at the log...

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I don't like not finding a cache. Sure, I'll go back to find it later, but not for enjoyment so much as to stop the annoying feeling of failure.

 

My goal in hiding a cache is that anyone who reads the web page and follows the coordinates can find the cache. It's a limit that I hope to push. The perfect cache is never found by the muggle, but always found by the cacher, even if just barely.

[+cache_test_dummies]

I hate seeing DNFs on my caches, because my first assumption is always that the cache has gone missing.

 

Except when the DNF is from New England n00b, in which case I assume that the cache is still there.

[+IC1]

Most of my hides are fairly easily found, especially by those with some caching experience. However there is one cache I have which has eluded everyone without assistance. Still waiting for someone to find it unaided. And yes, I do get a kick out of the DNF's on it.

 

Not to burst a bubble here but as of Jan 16 2006 at least 2 people found it unaided... It was a very fun hunt though!!