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"Liar Caches"

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I'm not sure how some of you can actually stand behind a deceptive and all out BS cache as this! I have never heard of such a cache (granted, I've only been caching almost a year) and would likely have been one of the mad cachers who outed the cache for what it was. ESPECIALLY if I had taken special time to prepare and paid big bucks to get there! AND...don't tell me to check the logs for DNF's...we all know that many who don't find a cache never log their failing to find!!!

 

So now I have to worry about a cache where the owner has the stupid thing on his porch and the coords are LYING??? It's bad enough that coords can be bad accidentally...but to purposely LIE to someone about the coords would really put a bad taste in my mouth! Just because there are 24 people that found it, do you think they were all happy to be lied to?? If I spent an hour or so searching for a cache that isn't even there (and wasn't EVER there) I'd be wanting to out that LIE myself!!

 

And now I don't know what to believe about those PUC caches either?? I had been thinking about an attempt on a few of those...are they real or not??

 

I guess the worst thing would have to be the fact that the group even contacted the cache owner to inquire about it...such a smug and selfish act to NOT tell the truth before letting them make the trip and waste the money and time!! And to say you didn't realize they were making the trip ESPECIALLY for that cache...what a slap in the face!! I think the clue would have been when they wrote ASKING about it!!

 

CACHE OF THE YEAR...are we supposed to believe THAT part???

 

I agree...almost as funny as tripping a senior with a cane!!

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Is there bad feelings in general between Minnesota and Wisconsen like there is between New Jersey and, well, everybody else? :laughing:

No

It was a joke (except for the bit about New Jersey. That's the truth.)

Oh. I grew up in an undisclosed state whose border is contiguous with that of NJ, and I always loved NJ, and, now that I live in Western Maryland, I still love NJ.

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. . .And now I don't know what to believe about those PUC caches either?? I had been thinking about an attempt on a few of those...are they real or not??. . .

I strongly suspect that all of the Psycho Urban Caches and Psycho Backcountry Caches are tall tale caches, because, if I recall correctly, the owner himself showed up on this forum thread this very afternoon and confessed publicly to the fact that they were all hoaxes, merely tall tale caches. Seems that even the log entries and the photos are hoaxes created by a commercial advertising agency. Shame! So, no, in my book at least, you do not want to travel all the way to Maryland to tackle any of these caches, because it seems to me that they are all really 1/1 or 1.5/1.5 guardrail or lamppost skirt micros. Shame. But at least you saved yourself the airfare to Maryland! :ph34r:

 

 

 

:laughing::ph34r:

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I'm not sure how some of you can actually stand behind a deceptive and all out BS cache as this! I have never heard of such a cache (granted, I've only been caching almost a year) and would likely have been one of the mad cachers who outed the cache for what it was. ESPECIALLY if I had taken special time to prepare and paid big bucks to get there! AND...don't tell me to check the logs for DNF's...we all know that many who don't find a cache never log their failing to find!!!

 

So now I have to worry about a cache where the owner has the stupid thing on his porch and the coords are LYING??? It's bad enough that coords can be bad accidentally...but to purposely LIE to someone about the coords would really put a bad taste in my mouth! Just because there are 24 people that found it, do you think they were all happy to be lied to?? If I spent an hour or so searching for a cache that isn't even there (and wasn't EVER there) I'd be wanting to out that LIE myself!!

 

And now I don't know what to believe about those PUC caches either?? I had been thinking about an attempt on a few of those...are they real or not??

 

I guess the worst thing would have to be the fact that the group even contacted the cache owner to inquire about it...such a smug and selfish act to NOT tell the truth before letting them make the trip and waste the money and time!! And to say you didn't realize they were making the trip ESPECIALLY for that cache...what a slap in the face!! I think the clue would have been when they wrote ASKING about it!!

 

CACHE OF THE YEAR...are we supposed to believe THAT part???

 

I agree...almost as funny as tripping a senior with a cane!!

Whoa. Please take a deep breath. This cannot be healthy. :laughing::ph34r:

 

bigarmhug.gif

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I have a Liar's cache out there somewhere. I have gotten a great response with it. I did not, however, say that you need special equipment. I even included some hints on the page that it's all a big lie. I live in Florida, and there is the warning for falling rocks. There isn't a rock over 2 feet off the ground for 500 miles!

 

I have emailed some of the people who have found the cache, and they have told me that they were delighted with the cache, and it was one of their favorites. You should see the logs that i have gotten, though!

 

That's just rude to make people buy stuff. That's not about fun, that's about sticking it to folks. I am sorry to hear about that.

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Whoa. Please take a deep breath. This cannot be healthy.

 

Ya know, I was thinkin' nearly the same thing for anyone to react so adversely to the idea of a liar's cache given that they have no experience with that type of cache.

 

It has made me doubt that the concept of tripping a senior with a cane might not be funny. :D

 

I happen to have a cane and I think I'll go trip some seniors with it to see if it in fact isn't funny. :):):)

 

Seriously though, I'm starting to think some folks hafta be pretty sheltered not to get the fun in this type of cache. I'm not saying they have to agree, but given the previous history of any given liar's cache some understanding of other folk's enjoyment in it might dissuade someone from becoming a popinjay.

 

The world really isn't cotton candy, fluffy bunnies and kittens..... Sometimes things aren't what they seem on the surface and in the geocaching context, just sometimes it's really flippin' funny when you find out what's underneath if you take the time to understand.

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I strongly suspect that all of the Psycho Urban Caches and Psycho Backcountry Caches are tall tale caches, because, if I recall correctly, the owner himself showed up on this forum thread this very afternoon and confessed publicly to the fact that they were all hoaxes, merely tall tale caches.

But that same owner insisted that "real" liars caches must be listed as mystery-type caches, and practically none of those are. Therefore, they must be real. QED.

 

:)

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I strongly suspect that all of the Psycho Urban Caches and Psycho Backcountry Caches are tall tale caches, because, if I recall correctly, the owner himself showed up on this forum thread this very afternoon and confessed publicly to the fact that they were all hoaxes, merely tall tale caches.

But that same owner insisted that "real" liars caches must be listed as mystery-type caches, and practically none of those are. Therefore, they must be real. QED.

 

B)

Sigh! :) But then again, since some call these "liar's caches", maybe I am lying either in classifying the caches, or in insisting that such caches be classified as puzzle/riddle caches! :):D

 

:)

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So now I have to worry about a cache where the owner has the stupid thing on his porch and the coords are LYING??? It's bad enough that coords can be bad accidentally...but to purposely LIE to someone about the coords would really put a bad taste in my mouth! Just because there are 24 people that found it, do you think they were all happy to be lied to?? If I spent an hour or so searching for a cache that isn't even there (and wasn't EVER there) I'd be wanting to out that LIE myself!!

 

Did you read the cache page before you blew that gasket?

 

It says in two places that the cache is on my front porch!

 

Yep, the coords say it's in the middle of my driveway, but I tell you in the listing that they are off, and you can see the dang thing from the street, so is it really worth going ballistic over it?

 

I think somebody woke up on the wrong side of the rock!

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler

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And now I don't know what to believe about those PUC caches either?? I had been thinking about an attempt on a few of those...are they real or not??

Save your money - there ARE no PUC caches, it's all a lie.

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Sorry, couldn't find all three in one picture. :)

 

Those are now saved on my notepad next to TAR's can of worms pic. :):)

Edited by Snoogans

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. . .And now I don't know what to believe about those PUC caches either?? I had been thinking about an attempt on a few of those...are they real or not??. . .

I strongly suspect that all of the Psycho Urban Caches and Psycho Backcountry Caches are tall tale caches, because, if I recall correctly, the owner himself showed up on this forum thread this very afternoon and confessed publicly to the fact that they were all hoaxes, merely tall tale caches. Seems that even the log entries and the photos are hoaxes created by a commercial advertising agency. Shame! So, no, in my book at least, you do not want to travel all the way to Maryland to tackle any of these caches, because it seems to me that they are all really 1/1 or 1.5/1.5 guardrail or lamppost skirt micros. Shame. But at least you saved yourself the airfare to Maryland! :)

 

 

 

:):)

 

If a liar lies about a "liar's cache," what does that mean?

 

 

 

 

That hurt my head.

 

 

I better go LIE down.

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. . .And now I don't know what to believe about those PUC caches either?? I had been thinking about an attempt on a few of those...are they real or not??. . .

I strongly suspect that all of the Psycho Urban Caches and Psycho Backcountry Caches are tall tale caches, because, if I recall correctly, the owner himself showed up on this forum thread this very afternoon and confessed publicly to the fact that they were all hoaxes, merely tall tale caches. Seems that even the log entries and the photos are hoaxes created by a commercial advertising agency. Shame! So, no, in my book at least, you do not want to travel all the way to Maryland to tackle any of these caches, because it seems to me that they are all really 1/1 or 1.5/1.5 guardrail or lamppost skirt micros. Shame. But at least you saved yourself the airfare to Maryland! :)

 

 

 

:):)

 

If a liar lies about a "liar's cache," what does that mean?

 

 

 

 

That hurt my head.

 

 

I better go LIE down.

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And now I don't know what to believe about those PUC caches either?? I had been thinking about an attempt on a few of those...are they real or not??

Save your money - there ARE no PUC caches, it's all a lie.

Yes. This is true. The entire Psycho Cache thing was a hoax of gigantic proportions foisted by a secret and powerful cabal of elitist Maryland geocachers (who themselves are an arm of the Iluminati-orchestrated New World Order conspiracy led by the alien grays) upon the unsuspecting geo-world as a massive and macabre joke. In other words, it was a conspiracy of the first order. The reality is that there are no Psycho Urban Caches nor any Psycho Backcountry caches nor any finders; they were all fictional entities created by an advertising agency in Miami and a small graphics design company in Cincinatti, Ohio. Sorry for any inconvenience, folks. Move along. Show is over.

 

 

 

 

:):)

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team

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I am sorry i don't have all the emails that went back and forth but here is one for you:

 

>From: "

>To: "

>CC:

>Subject: Re: [GEO] bflentje contacting The Lil Otter from Geocaching.com

>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:50:03 -0600

>MIME-Version: 1.0

[big honkin' snip]

>

>Call it hearsay if you want. I deleted out the emails for all involved for privacy.

Another way to protect privacy would have been to remove all the IP addys in the headers. In fact, the headers themselves were unnecessary.

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Sorry, couldn't find all three in one picture. :)

 

Those are now saved on my notepad next to TAR's can of worms pic. :D:)

Oh, no...I'm helping to create a monster. :)

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I'm not sure how some of you can <blah blah blah. rant, rave. blah, blah blah> trip a senior with a cane!!

Can somebody please pass this guy some Ritalin? :)

Brother, you're getting way too worked up about something that you admit to being clueless about. We don't want you bursting a blood vessel! A bit of advice, if you plan on spending several hundred dollars and driving several hundred miles, just to hunt one cache: Find someone a bit less gullible to read the cache page for you. Perhaps do a bit of research. Maybe look at a map? Sure sounds like much ado about nothing. They cached and lived to tell about it. How can that be a bad thing?

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I'm not sure how some of you can <blah blah blah. rant, rave. blah, blah blah> trip a senior with a cane!!

Can somebody please pass this guy some Ritalin? :)

Brother, you're getting way too worked up about something that you admit to being clueless about. We don't want you bursting a blood vessel! A bit of advice, if you plan on spending several hundred dollars and driving several hundred miles, just to hunt one cache: Find someone a bit less gullible to read the cache page for you. Perhaps do a bit of research. Maybe look at a map? Sure sounds like much ado about nothing. They cached and lived to tell about it. How can that be a bad thing?

Clan Riffster, I must say that I strongly agree with your post. Sounds like he needed a nap!

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Sounds like he needed a nap!

Naps are a wonderful thing. Kinda like a reset button for the soul. :)

Edit to add: If I drove 500 miles and found nothing more than a guardrail hide-a-key, I'd still have fun. Some folks are preprogrammed for angst.

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Sounds like he needed a nap!

Naps are a wonderful thing. Kinda like a reset button for the soul. :)

Edit to add: If I drove 500 miles and found nothing more than a guardrail hide-a-key, I'd still have fun. Some folks are preprogrammed for angst.

Exactly! Our experiences in life are what we make out of them! :)

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Yep...and after taking my "nap", I still have the same feeling!!

 

No Rambler I didn't read your cache description (didn't see one at the time)...I was taking you at what you said. Sorry if I was out of line on yours, at least you TELL them the truth in the lies!!

 

YES, these ARE new to me, and being that...SORRY if I believe people who tell me things like this. MOST cachers I run into don't lie about something like this, so NO, I didn't realize they were even out there (sorry, I'm a trusting FOOL...I guess trust is something we shouldn't EVER have anymore??)

 

I liken this to the car salesman at the used car lot...the snake in the grass that would tell you anything to sell you a car. Unless you KNOW this punk is what he is, how are you going to know he's lying?? So...it's FUNNY when your 18 yr old goes car shopping and meets up with this punk?? It's funny when he sells the kid a lemon of a junker that has just been spit polished and a fresh pine tree has been added to the mirror??

 

You see, there ARE those kids that want to go out and do it for themselves...and there are those snakes WAITING for them to come along!! Those poor inexperienced youngsters who have yet to be shown that TRUSTING someone could be STUPID!!

 

Before seeing this post, I didn't realize we had "car salesmen" in the sport (and sorry to all you HONEST salepeople out there, not a slam on you or your profession...unless YOU are one of those snakes...then GIVE MY GOD-SON BACK HIS MONEY). :)

 

YES...programmed for angst...yes....spending a day plus to go after a cache, whatever costs it would be to get there in my Jeep (let's say...$100 round trip for that 500 mile jaunt PLUS any incidental mileage for having fun in the area, driving to other caches etc, paying to sleep on the ground in a tent when I COULD be home in my bed, having the COOL anticipation of going after a SERIOUSLY difficult and rewarding cache (which likely took me a bit of time to plan for, as I can't just take off on a whim...let's see, vacation time may be used, babysitters for the kids, house sitter, pet carer forer...WHATEVER little thing that wouldn't normally have done unless it was an COOL thing like finding a 5/5 ADVENTURE cache).

 

That probably DOES sound like it's just being blown out of proportion...unless YOU'RE the one that goes through all this only to find a joke of a cache waiting for you when you get there.

 

Read a map...great advice...mine doesn't show up on the cache page...does EVERYBODY else's?? Maybe I should buy up maps and keep them handy just to debunk any cache that sounds too good to be true!! Oh...but how would you know they're too good to be true?? I've been out to find "Holey Wall" in Vegas...didn't make it as I wasn't in good enough shape (personal health problems), but my friends did. I trusted that that one was real...it was! Sounded too good to be true, but there it was REAL and waiting for another attempt (I WILL be back...I also hope to get back to the top of Bridge MT. to sign that log...didn't have a cache there when I first climbed it...nope not going after MT Wilson, almost dying twice is enough for me).

 

So...sorry if I took all this at face value...what a fool I am to trust anyone these days...silly, silly trusting fool. SORRY if I'm that "18 year old" who trusts the snake because I just didn't know not to...sorry I thought all cachers were trustworthy and at least a BIT ethical about telling the truth IF asked!! I guess there's "snakes" in everything we do these days...that's sad!!

 

And NO...this isn't meant for those harmless and laughable liar's caches that don't take it to the extreme that this was taken to...those WOULD likely be fun...as long as they are listed as such and not built up as the cache to end all caches with no clue as to the truth.

 

btw...no, I wouldn't have thought to buy a topo map of the area...I wonder how many others would have???? Easy to say that you would to make yourself look smart, so I'll bet most would say they would...but are YOU a liar too??

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BLAST AWAY LIAR'S...have fun with it...but I'm sure many of you realize this one was taken too far...and Vinney and Sue...I won't bother wth your caches, I can't tell if you're lying or not, but after this, I wouldn't waste my time! Not a slam on you at all...just not worth my time or money to find out!!

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One last thing.... What's with all the hyphenated words? Is that a MN thing?

 

More likely, it's a software effect on words that originally spanned line breaks.

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Yep...and after taking my "nap", I still have the same feeling!!

 

Read a map...great advice...mine doesn't show up on the cache page...does EVERYBODY else's??

 

Every cache page I see has links to 10 different online maps of the location on the left-hand side above the written description. The online maps include Topozone.

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We've done one liars cache and I have to say that it was alot of fun.

 

There were tons of clues on the cache page and it really had us scratching our heads as to how some of the things mentioned could have ever been accomplished. We read the out of this world logs and we knew something was amiss, but we still fell for the cache,,, hook, line, and sinker! :)

 

I'm sure there will be cachers who will be disappointed with this one but i'm thinking mainly because ot the lack of the "grand" challenge that is initially promised. I actually asked the cache owner about the very circumstances that this thread has brought up because i felt it could cause a problem down the road for them as well. His/her answer was that they would be forthcoming with more honest information to any that they knew were coming from afar with plans on finding the cache.

 

This is where i see the problem as being for the cache put out by The Lil Otter. She should have been more honest when the group of cachers emailed for advice. I think she knew they were putting alot of effort and money into finding her cache and she should have slowed that down. I see some of you saying that it's no big deal but i can bet that most of you would be a bit upset too if you wasted that much money on the endeaver. :)

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Is there bad feelings in general between Minnesota and Wisconsen like there is between New Jersey and, well, everybody else? :)

 

No

It was a joke (except for the bit about New Jersey. That's the truth.)

 

Why do people not like Jersey?

Because they are jealous. :)

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BLAST AWAY LIAR'S...have fun with it...but I'm sure many of you realize this one was taken too far...

 

:) Really? On which side has it gone too far if even on their own local forum they're tired of hearing about it? :)

 

In just a few days this whole mess will be two months old. :D

 

Maybe the cache owner should have done MORE to prepare them. Maybe they should have asked MORE questions and tried other sources, or I dunno, looked at a map.

 

Convince me that a couple car loads worth of ADULTS could ALL be that naive. I don't buy it one bit. :D

 

We have yet to see PROOF of deceit on the cache owner's part, yet some will take the claims of those who cry most loudly at face value. Being an ADULT, I'm always suspicious of those who cry most loudly.

 

What I see is a group of ADULTS who wanted something to get good and mad about and then to stay mad for whatever reason floated them. They admittedly had an opportunity to confront the cache owner in person and DIDN'T. They CHOSE to sit seething. Hmmm why? They pressured the archival of their scapegoat's cache through mass e-mail and multiple forum threads on several geocaching sites and it wasn't enough. TWO MONTHS later they drag the issue into the press. :D Who has gone too far? B) Righteous wrath is an oxymoron.

 

samuel_l_jackson(pulp-fiction-med).jpg

 

I keep flashing on Pulp Fiction about this whole thang:

 

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

 

:)B):D

 

Can't say it hasn't been entertaining though.

Edited by Snoogans

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I am sorry i don't have all the emails that went back and forth but here is one for you:

 

>From: "

>To: "

>CC:

>Subject: Re: [GEO] bflentje contacting The Lil Otter from Geocaching.com

>Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 17:50:03 -0600

>MIME-Version: 1.0

[big honkin' snip]

>

>Call it hearsay if you want. I deleted out the emails for all involved for privacy.

Another way to protect privacy would have been to remove all the IP addys in the headers. In fact, the headers themselves were unnecessary.

 

Oh I did not know to remove the IP's. Thanks

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BLAST AWAY LIAR'S...have fun with it...but I'm sure many of you realize this one was taken too far...

 

:) Really? On which side has it gone too far if even on their own local forum they're tired of hearing about it? :)

 

In just a few days this whole mess will be two months old. :D

 

Maybe the cache owner should have done MORE to prepare them. Maybe they should have asked MORE questions and tried other sources, or I dunno, looked at a map.

 

Convince me that a couple car loads worth of ADULTS could ALL be that naive. I don't buy it one bit. :D

 

We have yet to see PROOF of deceit on the cache owner's part, yet some will take the claims of those who cry most loudly at face value. Being an ADULT, I'm always suspicious of those who cry most loudly.

 

What I see is a group of ADULTS who wanted something to get good and mad about and then to stay mad for whatever reason floated them. They admittedly had an opportunity to confront the cache owner in person and DIDN'T. They CHOSE to sit seething. Hmmm why? They pressured the archival of their scapegoat's cache through mass e-mail and multiple forum threads on several geocaching sites and it wasn't enough. TWO MONTHS later they drag the issue into the press. :D Who has gone too far? B) Righteous wrath is an oxymoron.

 

samuel_l_jackson(pulp-fiction-med).jpg

 

I keep flashing on Pulp Fiction about this whole thang:

 

The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he, who in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.

 

:)B):D

 

Can't say it hasn't been entertaining though.

 

Snoogans I think it may be you that is snowballed by the owner of this cache. Sorry but true.

 

First off it's a multi folks looking at the map may or may not tell you ANYTHING and yes we did look at the starting point which was a public access area net to a river with a LARGE open area to the south, some really decebt hills to the north, a swampy area south, and island on the west side of said river. After asking the owner the thought was that the coords could potentally send us to another area for the actaul adventure.

 

Snoogans we asked a few others we knew about the cache and they assured us it was real, still not being convinced Lil Otter was then contacted.

 

So are you saying that you believe Lil Otter was upfront and totally truthful and told us that the cache was a fake. Say we had not asked any specific question do you feel that an owner of such a cache who does KNOW (the event page proves that) that a group is coming out for her cahce and she KNOWS its a fake doesn't have any duty to come out and tell the truth beforehand, even if she had not been contacted as she was?

 

Actually Snoogans most of us had moved on tho we still get asked about the cache and situation. Speaking for the 2 that have been the most vocal about this whole thing in the past, neither of us went to the paper or had anything else to do with the writing of the article.

 

Why didn't we confront her in person, well because there were oh about a handful of other cachers there and because at that point we were to angry to talk to her civil about it.

 

I'm sorry but other the groudspeak or our own forums (2) there were no other forums and both were legit places to talk about our experiences esp in my case. The instructions in Lil Otters own cache was to be able to claim a find you must not reveal the truth, well folks I never even attempted to claim a find on the cache therefor I was never held to that agreement.

 

As for Mass emails wha'ever. I emailed people in MN and MN only (from our own 2 forums) who I knew were going to take on the trek. I explained that they could go but not to make a big deal out of it and that the cache was a fake and it was a 1 stage Regular. After Lil Otter sent the email out that she did that and only then did we go public to our own forums and later followed to Groundspeak.

 

If people emailed her becasue of the truth either in support or against that is the risk you take as an owner of any cache and esp a liar's cache.

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...In just a few days this whole mess will be two months old. :) ...
It might be useful to recognize that none of the involved parties brought this thread to the forums.

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Snoogans I think it may be you that is snowballed by the owner of this cache. Sorry but true.

 

Actually no. I've dusted it up with LO in the past over her remarks about Jacksonville caches and cachers. I know who I'm dealing with. However, in this case I'm not impartial.

 

I can't argue with you point by point, because I believe neither side is being totally forthcoming, but such is nearly always the case in forum disputes. One side lets fly with just enough truth to rally the villagers to get out their torches and pitchforks. In this case, I guess I'm the fair maiden who wishes to protect the monster. :D

 

So are you saying that you believe Lil Otter was upfront and totally truthful and told us that the cache was a fake.

 

:wacko::D:yikes:

 

This is the point where your misinformation tactics become plain as day. Please quote me from anywhere on this thread where I have said ANY such thing.

 

I believe I said:

Maybe the cache owner should have done MORE to prepare them.

 

Say we had not asked any specific question do you feel that an owner of such a cache who does KNOW (the event page proves that) that a group is coming out for her cahce and she KNOWS its a fake doesn't have any duty to come out and tell the truth beforehand, even if she had not been contacted as she was?

 

I can only put myself in the cache owner's shoe's to answer. In the situation outlined, had it been my cache, no one would have left home without knowing the truth.

 

However, I now suspect that the group would have only gone down by a couple of members and we wouldn't be on our third page of the second round of this argument. :D (Word to the wise for all of you out there who are planning a liar's cache.)

 

Actually Snoogans most of us had moved on tho we still get asked about the cache and situation. Speaking for the 2 that have been the most vocal about this whole thing in the past, neither of us went to the paper or had anything else to do with the writing of the article.

 

Hmmmm, someone must have. When I was reading the article, I focused on the word "plucky," and remembered reading it in the original thread about this situation. "Plucky" isn't a adjective you see every day. Certain people (especially writers) tend to reuse their special adjectives often though. ;):wacko:

 

You could give me three original, unpublished, pages by any two different authors and Stephen King and just about anyone familiar with the works of SK would pick out the page authored by him. I certainly could.

 

Why didn't we confront her in person, well because there were oh about a handful of other cachers there and because at that point we were to angry to talk to her civil about it.

 

Sorry, I'll spare you the adjectives I have in response to that. Adult to adult, you could have asked to speak to her privately. Excuses for not behaving like an adult don't cut it when it has gone this far.

 

From what I gather just from reading, you had another chance to confront her the next day and instead stood her up. So, there were two missed chances.

 

Just a few questions....

 

How many folks were in your group? It's unclear, was there more than 1 group? How many actually share the hard feelings described? Did anyone defy the percieved group dynamic and actually enjoy the trip? :D

Edited by Snoogans

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Snoogans I think it may be you that is snowballed by the owner of this cache. Sorry but true.

 

Actually no. I've dusted it up with LO in the past over her remarks about Jacksonville caches and cachers. I know who I'm dealing with. However, in this case I'm not impartial.

 

I can't argue with you point by point, because I believe neither side is being totally forthcoming, but such is nearly always the case in forum disputes. One side lets fly with just enough truth to rally the villagers to get out their torches and pitchforks. In this case, I guess I'm the fair maiden who wishes to protect the monster. :D

 

So are you saying that you believe Lil Otter was upfront and totally truthful and told us that the cache was a fake.

 

:wacko::D:yikes:

 

This is the point where your misinformation tactics become plain as day. Please quote me from anywhere on this thread where I have said ANY such thing.

 

I believe I said:

Maybe the cache owner should have done MORE to prepare them.

 

All I did was ask you a question to see where exactly you stood, up until now you have defended LO vigerously in this thread, now your stance is more clear to me, I am sorry i should have put a question mark there instead of a period.

 

Say we had not asked any specific question do you feel that an owner of such a cache who does KNOW (the event page proves that) that a group is coming out for her cahce and she KNOWS its a fake doesn't have any duty to come out and tell the truth beforehand, even if she had not been contacted as she was?

 

I can only put myself in the cache owner's shoe's to answer. In the situation outlined, had it been my cache, no one would have left home without knowing the truth.

 

However, I now suspect that the group would have only gone down by a couple of members and we wouldn't be on our third page of the second round of this argument. :D (Word to the wise for all of you out there who are planning a liar's cache.)

 

Actually Snoogans most of us had moved on tho we still get asked about the cache and situation. Speaking for the 2 that have been the most vocal about this whole thing in the past, neither of us went to the paper or had anything else to do with the writing of the article.

 

And therein lies the problem the owner, LO, did not in any way shape or forum inform this group of the truth of this cache.

Hmmmm, someone must have. When I was reading the article, I focused on the word "plucky," and remembered reading it in the original thread about this situation. "Plucky" isn't a adjective you see every day. Certain people (especially writers) tend to reuse them often though. ;):wacko:

 

You could give me three original, unpublished, pages by any two different authors and Stephen King and just about anyone familiar with the works of SK would pick out the page authored by him. I certainly could.

 

Why didn't we confront her in person, well because there were oh about a handful of other cachers there and because at that point we were to angry to talk to her civil about it.

 

I believe the qoute is taken from the website itself because I know who said the word and we both are corious as to how the article was written.

 

Sorry, I'll spare you the adjectives I have in response to that. Adult to adult, you could have asked to speak to her privately. Excuses for not behaving like an adult don't cut it when it has gone this far.

 

From what I gather just from reading, you had another chance to confront her the next day and instead stood her up. So, there were two missed chances.

 

Just a few questions....

 

How many folks were in your group? It's unclear, was there more than 1 group? How many actually share the hard feelings described? Did anyone defy the percieved group dynamic and actually enjoy the trip? :D

 

There were 6 in the original group, 1 drove down the next day after knowing the truth because he plans on making a real gauntlet and wanted to check this one out. All but the 2 had hard feelings that I know of, one that didn't was the one who knew the truth coming down, the second I never actaully asked him how how felt one way or another but I suspent he may be the one that helped with the article because of how I recieved the info that this discussion was out here and about the article. There were 4 females in the original group, 2 males, and 1 male that joined us. Other then the experience with this specific cache and this specific cache owner the trip was fine, tho not one we probably would have made at that time if we had known the truth. Several were planning on making that cache a milestone instead they used other caches. In fact out of the whole trip the best caches which another MN cacher puts us onto after we talked to them about the cache in question (they had done it already and got an earful for not informing us of the truth. The difference is they apologized and wished they had informed us.) was the Twin Bluffs Series.

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All I did was ask you a question to see where exactly you stood, up until now you have defended LO vigerously in this thread, now your stance is more clear to me, I am sorry i should have put a question mark there instead of a period.

 

:wacko: I'm guilty of doing that from time to time. Everyone makes mistakes. :D

 

Thanks for answering my questions. The picture is a bit more focused.

Edited by Snoogans

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I liken this to the car salesman at the used car lot...the snake in the grass that would tell you anything to sell you a car. Unless you KNOW this punk is what he is, how are you going to know he's lying?? So...it's FUNNY when your 18 yr old goes car shopping and meets up with this punk?? It's funny when he sells the kid a lemon of a junker that has just been spit polished and a fresh pine tree has been added to the mirror??

Funny? No. Fitting? Yes. I've spent the better part of the last 20 or so years teaching my kids self reliance. Part of this upbringing is teaching them that the world is not a Disney cartoon. All is not fluffy bunnies and soft theme music. There are folks out there who, (Gasp!), prevaricate for a living, including the occasional used car salesman. I've instructed them in the art of purchasing used cars, which includes having said cars inspected by competent mechanics prior to spending any money on them. If, after all this careful instruction, one of my kids got duped by a used car salesman, I'd say they got exactly what they deserve. (hasn't happened yet, but then my kids aren't as naive as others)

 

Those poor inexperienced youngsters who have yet to be shown that TRUSTING someone could be STUPID!!

Sounds like a failure on the parents part.

 

but are YOU a liar too??

I don't think so. Your mileage may vary.

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All I did was ask you a question to see where exactly you stood, up until now you have defended LO vigerously in this thread, now your stance is more clear to me, I am sorry i should have put a question mark there instead of a period.

 

:wacko: I'm guilty of doing that from time to time. Everyone makes mistakes. :D

 

Thanks for understanding

 

Thanks for answering my questions. The picture is a bit more focused.

 

No problem

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I did state to them that "I am sorry that you gals didn't have the best of times, it was never meant to be so"

 

Do you think that just repeating this endlessly will solve the problem? It didn't do anything before.. I have no idea what these gals want.. besides all this drama and limelight..

 

As you saw on their MN board.. they delighted in bragging of all the "fun" they were doing on the side i.e.

1. Personal attacks.. I never bragged about my own caches but was talking about a 7 mile FL hike in the swamps.. as well as a train trestle I crawled out on in the hills of KY..

2. Playing 'games' by constantly editing their logs on the cache page... I finally was notified that I could have the page LOCKED but that still yet allows them to edit their 'notes'

3. Creating bookmarks etc

4. Logging that a team member died..

5. Emailing etc..

 

I also spoke about my lack of caching.. how I tired of Walmart lamp hides. Yes, my cache was a simple cache located at a boat launch (located in the top vacation spot and surrounded by 5 state parks).. that had a 2.5 year run... enjoyed by many (even others from out of state) so I had NO idea how hellish it would become. I have NEVER lied to them..

 

If I sound cold and to the point.. it's because of all the behind the scenes "muck" that they did to have their revenge.. they weren't happy with mail spam.. that wasn't enough.. they were not happy with my "sorry".. they were not happy with going to the Admins... they were not happy with personal attacks on me.. they were not happy with 'drama' logging.. they were not happy with forums... they were not happy with bookmarks.. they were not happy with chuckling how they found newer ways to get back at me.. they were not happy with outing the cache.. they were overjoyed with my archiving the cache after a MONTH of going through the above...

 

I am just glad that they didn't take me up on camping in my backyard to know of my location... atleast I had breaks where I could turn off the computer and forget about what newest ploys these gals could come up with.. so if all I have to endure now is a 'reporters' wrath.. so be it.. but can the games stop soon???

 

~The Lil Otter

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Okay folks, the gossip in me has now become very curious: What is all this vague and ambiguous talk on both sides (particularly on the side of the self-proclaimed "bleeding victims") of the "team member who died"?

 

Are they (the self-proclaimed bleeding victims) claiming that the strenuous hunt for the cache in question killed the team member?

 

Are they claiming that heartbreak and grevious disappointment over discovering that the cache was a tall tale cache killed the team member?

 

Are they claiming that the cache owner was part of an Illuminati conspiracy which led to the team member's death?

 

Are they claiming that the team member was killed by an elite band of ultra-geo-assassins from Wisconsin?

 

Are they claiming that the cache owner is somehow responsible for any and all deaths of geocachers in MN?

 

Are they claiming that tall tale caches are responsible for a significant portion of the morbidity and mortality statistics in MN?

 

Really, I hope someone will help me to get a clue here! Because of my burning anxiety over these grave questions, I have, for the past few days, been watching the Jerry Springer show and listening to George Boory's Coast to Coast show in the hopes of finding out exactly what the mysterious "team member death" allegations entail, but to no avail! Will someone please help me? Thank you in advance! :D:D

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team

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Okay folks, the gossip in me has now become very curious: What is all this vague and ambiguous talk on both sides (particularly on the side of the self-proclaimed "bleeding victims") of the "team member who died"? ...

I thought it was a big lie in return for a request for a big lie.

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Okay folks, the gossip in me has now become very curious: What is all this vague and ambiguous talk on both sides (particularly on the side of the self-proclaimed "bleeding victims") of the "team member who died"?

 

Are they (the self-proclaimed bleeding victims) claiming that the strenuous hunt for the cache in question killed the team member?

 

Are they claiming that heartbreak and grevious disappointment over discovering that the cache was a tall tale cache killed the team member?

 

Are they claiming that the cache owner was part of an Illuminati conspiracy which led to the team member's death?

 

Are they claiming that the team member was killed by an elite band of ultra-geo-assassins from Wisconsin?

 

Are they claiming that the cache owner is somehow responsible for any and all deaths of geocachers in MN?

 

Are they claiming that tall tale caches are responsible for a significant portion of the morbidity and mortality statistics in MN?

 

Really, I hope someone will help me to get a clue here! Because of my burning anxiety over these grave questions, I have, for the past few days, been watching the Jerry Springer show and listening to George Boory's Coast to Coast show in the hopes of finding out exactly what the mysterious "team member death" allegations entail, but to no avail! Will someone please help me? Thank you in advance! :D:D

 

I believe the tale of a team member's death was created by an advertising agency in Miami and a small graphics design company in Cincinatti, Ohio. (or something like that) :D

Edited by wimseyguy

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Okay folks, the gossip in me has now become very curious: What is all this vague and ambiguous talk on both sides (particularly on the side of the self-proclaimed "bleeding victims") of the "team member who died"?

 

Are they (the self-proclaimed bleeding victims) claiming that the strenuous hunt for the cache in question killed the team member?

 

Are they claiming that heartbreak and grevious disappointment over discovering that the cache was a tall tale cache killed the team member?

 

Are they claiming that the cache owner was part of an Illuminati conspiracy which led to the team member's death?

 

Are they claiming that the team member was killed by an elite band of ultra-geo-assassins from Wisconsin?

 

Are they claiming that the cache owner is somehow responsible for any and all deaths of geocachers in MN?

 

Are they claiming that tall tale caches are responsible for a significant portion of the morbidity and mortality statistics in MN?

 

Really, I hope someone will help me to get a clue here! Because of my burning anxiety over these grave questions, I have, for the past few days, been watching the Jerry Springer show and listening to George Boory's Coast to Coast show in the hopes of finding out exactly what the mysterious "team member death" allegations entail, but to no avail! Will someone please help me? Thank you in advance! :D:D

 

I believe the tale of a team member's death was created by an advertising agency in Miami and a small graphics design company in Cincinatti, Ohio. (or something like that) :D

AAARRRGGGHH! I walked right into that one! :D:D:D

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Okay folks, the gossip in me has now become very curious: What is all this vague and ambiguous talk on both sides (particularly on the side of the self-proclaimed "bleeding victims") of the "team member who died"? ...

I thought it was a big lie in return for a request for a big lie.

 

100% right. If you read the log by Esko it describes how one of our members got hurt (all a lie per the owners request to make up a story about your adventure). In the end we decided to say she died at the hospital of the injuries.

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Okay folks, the gossip in me has now become very curious: What is all this vague and ambiguous talk on both sides (particularly on the side of the self-proclaimed "bleeding victims") of the "team member who died"? ...

I thought it was a big lie in return for a request for a big lie.

 

100% right. If you read the log by Esko it describes how one of our members got hurt (all a lie per the owners request to make up a story about your adventure). In the end we decided to say she died at the hospital of the injuries.

Ohhh... Thank you for explaining that! Somehow, with all the other dramas swirling around this cache and the related issues, I totally missed that, and had thought that perhaps there was a growing feud between MN and MI cachers over the fact that MI cache hiders were wantonly assassinating MN cachers. Thanks for explaining it -- I appreciate your assistance! :D

 

And, I am sorry to hear that you had a bad time at the MI tall tale cache. I have deliberately sought several well-crafted top-notch tall tale caches (in one case flying thousands of miles to do so), and personally, I have enjoyed each of them immensely. In other cases, some other tall tale caches much closer to home have not impressed me much at all, and I have deliberately chosen to skip them. For me, it has to do with level of craftmanship, love and care which goes into these caches which makes the difference, same as with any other cache.

 

And, of course, on a related note, we now are witnessing the bizarre spectacle of rumors being circulated that all of our Psycho Urban Caches (click for list and links) and Psycho Backcountry Caches (click for list and links) are really tall tale caches. It seems that someone on these forums named Vinny, who has been masquerading as the "owner" of these caches, has taken upon himself (itself?) to announce on one of the threads that these Psycho caches are all hoaxes crafted by an advertising agency in Miami, Florida and an advertising copywriting shop in Cincinnati, Ohio, and that even many of the geo accounts of so-called "finders" of these Psycho caches are outright hoaxes, either sock puppet acccounts or hoax accounts operated by little old ladies in nursing homes. Let me tell you, we live in a sick world if people can make accusations such as that! Worse, the world would be even sicker if those accusations turn out to be true! :D:D

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I saw a link to the article on another forums that started this discussion. Sadly I wrote a very long and very well written reply on that article page itself over 4 days ago and it was not eve rlisted under the article. I wish I would have saved it I think I made some very good points about this article.

 

I was gonna give away the PUC secret but Vinny beat me to it! :D:D

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Okay folks, the gossip in me has now become very curious: What is all this vague and ambiguous talk on both sides (particularly on the side of the self-proclaimed "bleeding victims") of the "team member who died"? ...

I thought it was a big lie in return for a request for a big lie.

 

100% right. If you read the log by Esko it describes how one of our members got hurt (all a lie per the owners request to make up a story about your adventure). In the end we decided to say she died at the hospital of the injuries.

Ohhh... Thank you for explaining that! Somehow, with all the other dramas swirling around this cache and the related issues, I totally missed that, and had thought that perhaps there was a growing feud between MN and MI cachers over the fact that MI cache hiders were wantonly assassinating MN cachers. Thanks for explaining it -- I appreciate your assistance! :D

 

And, I am sorry to hear that you had a bad time at the MI tall tale cache. I have deliberately sought several well-crafted top-notch tall tale caches (in one case flying thousands of miles to do so), and personally, I have enjoyed each of them immensely. In other cases, some other tall tale caches much closer to home have not impressed me much at all, and I have deliberately chosen to skip them. For me, it has to do with level of craftmanship, love and care which goes into these caches which makes the difference, same as with any other cache.

 

And, of course, on a related note, we now are witnessing the bizarre spectacle of rumors being circulated that all of our Psycho Urban Caches (click for list and links) and Psycho Backcountry Caches (click for list and links) are really tall tale caches. It seems that someone on these forums named Vinny, who has been masquerading as the "owner" of these caches, has taken upon himself (itself?) to announce on one of the threads that these Psycho caches are all hoaxes crafted by an advertising agency in Miami, Florida and an advertising copywriting shop in Cincinnati, Ohio, and that even many of the geo accounts of so-called "finders" of these Psycho caches are outright hoaxes, either sock puppet acccounts or hoax accounts operated by little old ladies in nursing homes. Let me tell you, we live in a sick world if people can make accusations such as that! Worse, the world would be even sicker if those accusations turn out to be true! :D:D

 

I am sure they can be quite fun and really if we had known the truth right up front we wouldn't have had the issue we have. Speaking for my SO and I we would not have made a specific trip to the cache to get it if the truth had been known, I would not have hosted an event for it either. The dog wouldn't have had to be kenneled (he has a seizure disorder so being away from home is hard for him and we do it only on very few occaions) The time and expense that went along with it would have been used elesewhere.

 

In fact the time and money would have been put into our own county caches in which we have spent many hours and money traveling our own state getting to know differnet areas, do different types of cache and really having fun. It's been great for our dog, us, and a few other cachers who have gone out with us.

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I saw a link to the article on another forums that started this discussion. Sadly I wrote a very long and very well written reply on that article page itself over 4 days ago and it was not eve rlisted under the article. I wish I would have saved it I think I made some very good points about this article.

 

I was gonna give away the PUC secret but Vinny beat me to it! :D:D

 

that's to bad it would have been nice to read.

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Ohhh... Thank you for explaining that! Somehow, with all the other dramas swirling around this cache and the related issues, I totally missed that, and had thought that perhaps there was a growing feud between MN and MI cachers over the fact that MI cache hiders were wantonly assassinating MN cachers. Thanks for explaining it -- I appreciate your assistance! :) ...
WI, not MI. Michigan geocachiers would never feud over such a silly matter. Those Wisconsiners (Wisconsinians?) are firebrands.

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. . .And, I am sorry to hear that you had a bad time at the MI tall tale cache. I have deliberately sought several well-crafted top-notch tall tale caches (in one case flying thousands of miles to do so), and personally, I have enjoyed each of them immensely. In other cases, some other tall tale caches much closer to home have not impressed me much at all, and I have deliberately chosen to skip them. For me, it has to do with level of craftmanship, love and care which goes into these caches which makes the difference, same as with any other cache. . .

I am sure they can be quite fun and really if we had known the truth right up front we wouldn't have had the issue we have. Speaking for my SO and I we would not have made a specific trip to the cache to get it if the truth had been known, I would not have hosted an event for it either. The dog wouldn't have had to be kenneled (he has a seizure disorder so being away from home is hard for him and we do it only on very few occaions) The time and expense that went along with it would have been used elesewhere.

 

In fact the time and money would have been put into our own county caches in which we have spent many hours and money traveling our own state getting to know differnet areas, do different types of cache and really having fun. It's been great for our dog, us, and a few other cachers who have gone out with us.

I agree. Of course, in the case of each of the tall tale caches which I cited above -- including both those which I chose to seek and those which I chose to ignore -- neither the cache owners nor anyone else ever told me that the caches in question were tall tale caches. Rather, I figured it out myself. In fact, the "tall tale" nature was rather obvious for each of them once I had read the cache listing page and most of the log entries, and in the case of the well-crafted top-notch tall tale caches, that fact made them all the more appealing and fun!

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team

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