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DNF Task Force


mgbmusic
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I was checking the local cache listings recently and keep coming across three caches nearby (series) that seem to have been abandoned, muggled, stolen, etc. and nobody seems to do anything about it, except keep on logging the DNF's.

 

I was thinking it might not be a bad idea to set up a sort of DNF task force, a group of volunteer cachers who could go out and look for these caches that seem to have disappeared, scour the area for potential hiding spots, etc, and report back to the reviewer/owner and set a more definitive word that -yes this cache is either missing, or it's hidden so well God can't find it.

 

I'd volunteer for such a group, but with my whopping 34 finds (or more importantly my 10 DNF's) - I might just suck at it.

 

I dunno. Just a thought. Don't know if it's been discussed before, but..

 

--MGb

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I was checking the local cache listings recently and keep coming across three caches nearby (series) that seem to have been abandoned, muggled, stolen, etc. and nobody seems to do anything about it, except keep on logging the DNF's.

 

I was thinking it might not be a bad idea to set up a sort of DNF task force, a group of volunteer cachers who could go out and look for these caches that seem to have disappeared, scour the area for potential hiding spots, etc, and report back to the reviewer/owner and set a more definitive word that -yes this cache is either missing, or it's hidden so well God can't find it.

 

I'd volunteer for such a group, but with my whopping 34 finds (or more importantly my 10 DNF's) - I might just suck at it.

 

I dunno. Just a thought. Don't know if it's been discussed before, but..

 

--MGb

How would this group be any different from the cachers who previously looked for the cache?

 

If someone really wants to know if a cache is there, they should ask someone who's already found it to go check on it.

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How would this group be any different from the cachers who previously looked for the cache?

 

If someone really wants to know if a cache is there, they should ask someone who's already found it to go check on it.

 

I guess I should've explained better. The theory is this would be a group of pretty experienced cachers who know a lot of the tricks who would be able to cover as much ground as possbile. This could not be a definitive word that it is gone and that is that, but it would be the closest thing to an "expert opinion" that geocaching could provide.

 

It'd basically be one or more individuals who could go to a site, and decide is it missing, is it on private property, etc and report back to the reviewer so they can have eyes on ground opinions so the reviewer could make the call.

 

The previous cachers may have little or no experience looking and, like me, may just suck at it. :lol:

 

--MGb

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It seems to be a good enough idea, and a nice thought, but isn't that the owners job? If someone places a cache then they should have no problem returning to check on it.

 

The needs maintenance log is a way of making a notification that it is in need of care, and I believe it will get the reviewers attention if not acted upon after so long. If it is a cache that violates the guidelines, then you could make an Should Be Archived log to notify the reviewer, however I would attempt to contact the owner before going that far, depending on the situation.

 

EDIT: wording

Edited by Airmapper
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...It'd basically be one or more individuals who could go to a site, and decide is it missing, is it on private property, etc and report back to the reviewer so they can have eyes on ground opinions so the reviewer could make the call. ...
So basically, you want to set up a mob of cache police. Will they have to furnish their own pitch forks, or will they be provided? Edited by sbell111
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Here is what I do when I run into a cache that seems to be abandoned. Start a dialogue with the reviewer in the area. Email him or her and tell them the situation. The reviewer is there for a reason...to monitor such events. If the cache is abandoned, the reviewer will archive the cache. If you want to adopt the cache, then you may work with the reviewer to change ownership. It is a simple task. Apparently your reviewer isn't doing his job. If that is the case, keep going up the ladder and notify Groundspeak of the situation.

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Here is what I do when I run into a cache that seems to be abandoned. Start a dialogue with the reviewer in the area. Email him or her and tell them the situation. The reviewer is there for a reason...to monitor such events. If the cache is abandoned, the reviewer will archive the cache. If you want to adopt the cache, then you may work with the reviewer to change ownership. It is a simple task. Apparently your reviewer isn't doing his job. If that is the case, keep going up the ladder and notify Groundspeak of the situation.

But if nobody tells the reviewer that there may be a problem, then the "reviewer isn't doing his job?" How do you make THAT leap? The OP mentions nothing about a reviewer ignoring requests to take action. And, we don't wander around the listing pages 24/7 looking for caches with cracked containers noted in the logs.

 

Apart from an e-mail, one of the best ways for problem caches to come to a reviewer's attention is if they stay "temporarily" disabled for a couple of months. The reviewer can then leave a note on the page, because the maintenance section of the listing guidelines says that a cache should only be disabled for a short period of time unless there's special circumstances. Another way to get a reviewer's attention is to log a "needs archived" log. Notices of those logs are forwarded automatically to the appropriate volunteer covering that area. Remember that "needs maintenance" logs do NOT automatically attract a reviewer's attention.

 

EDIT to add: Calkan's post oversimplifies the adoption process. Involuntary adoptions are now quite rare. The process is summarized in the FAQ thread that's pinned at the top of the "Getting Started" forum.

 

While reviewers do rely upon, and appreciate, reports via e-mail from concerned cachers, formalizing this as suggested in the OP has its pitfalls, depending on the individuals involved. It's a fine line between "helpful geocitizen" and "cache cop."

Edited by Keystone
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Here is how to handle those lost cache, DNF, destroyed or other situatiions. Email the cache owner about the problem. He should be paying attention to his caches. If not, then he is not following Groundspeak rules. Email the owner again, and then if there isn't a response, notify the reviewer. If there is no response, then go to Groundspeak. Oviously you have a cache owner and a reviewer sleeping on the switch. Our reviewer is constantly looking at what is happening in our neck of the woods. He has been vigilant and cooperative with these type of situations. Now I can't speak for other reviewers, but something is definitely amiss if they are not noticing repeated DNF's. As for adopting caches, it has been done and yes, through the proper channels. If a geocacher notices a problem with a cache, the first plan of action is to notify the owner. If the owner does not reply to a couple of emails, then notify your reviewer. He will then try to contact the owner. If there isn't a reply, then the reviewer has the ability to archive the cache in question. As for adoption, if a reviewer feels the circumstances warrant an adoption, then he will make it happen. The system works if all geocachers use it. Lets give it a chance.

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Oviously you have a cache owner and a reviewer sleeping on the switch. Our reviewer is constantly looking at what is happening in our neck of the woods. He has been vigilant and cooperative with these type of situations. Now I can't speak for other reviewers, but something is definitely amiss if they are not noticing repeated DNF's. As for adopting caches, it has been done and yes, through the proper channels. {snip} As for adoption, if a reviewer feels the circumstances warrant an adoption, then he will make it happen.

Did you read my last post? You are seriously misunderstanding how the reviewer role works in regards to cache maintenance and adoptions. Reviewers are under no obligation to scour the caches in their area, looking for caches to disable because of multiple DNF's. And involuntary adoptions are rare nowadays. The owner must be inactive for a long time, and must fail to respond to repeated attempts to contact them. And there must be a problem with the cache that requires the owner's attention.

 

Unless you can point to specific situations in Illinois (where the OP lives) where the cache reviewers are disregarding "Needs Archived" logs or caches that have been disabled for many months, I must ask you to stop labeling the reviewer as you are doing in your posts. Thank you.

Edited by Keystone
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So basically, you want to set up a mob of cache police. Will they have to furnish their own pitch forks, or will they be provided?

Both pitchforks and torches will be provided by the Acme Company.

Sweet! How about one of those cool rocket-powered pogo sticks?

Edited by sbell111
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Well enough said on my part...guess I get a whippin' by Keystone. No desrespect meant to any reviewer. I would blame the cache owner primarily for not keeping up his cache. Though circumstances might cause some caches to be abandoned...cache owner moving, death, etc. In most cases, Geocachers remarks are the only indicator to a problem existing with a cache. I don't expect a reviewer to go out and phyically try to find a lost cache. That isn't his responsiblity, nor what I was saying. The reviewer does however have the ability to "archive" the cache when the owner is unresponsive to multiple DNF's and emails. How else will the cache be archived without the consent of the missing owner? Hey, I adopted a cache...enough said about that. Though, you call it involuntary adoption...no I volunteered to adopt.

As far as locating the missing or damaged cache by a group of volunteers? Go for it...my time is better spent looking for something that I can find. I will now step off of my soapbox.

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Exactly. When times are light and a good cache has been down in our area for longer than 4-5 months, we ususally send an email to our friends (or do it ourself) to contact the owner and offer to adopt the location.

 

If the location was poor to begin with or fraught with constant muggling, we usually let the reviewer in on the loop and the cache is most likely taken down for good.

 

It's certainly important to spend the few extra minutes to share with the cache owner and local reviewer. It can be especially frustrating for other cachers who would like to place a cache nearby but can't because the "temp. disabled cache" is holding down the minimum cache placement radius and could "potentially" be re-activated at any time.

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Well enough said on my part...guess I get a whippin' by Keystone. No desrespect meant to any reviewer. I would blame the cache owner primarily for not keeping up his cache. Though circumstances might cause some caches to be abandoned...cache owner moving, death, etc. In most cases, Geocachers remarks are the only indicator to a problem existing with a cache. I don't expect a reviewer to go out and phyically try to find a lost cache. That isn't his responsiblity, nor what I was saying. The reviewer does however have the ability to "archive" the cache when the owner is unresponsive to multiple DNF's and emails. How else will the cache be archived without the consent of the missing owner? Hey, I adopted a cache...enough said about that. Though, you call it involuntary adoption...no I volunteered to adopt.

As far as locating the missing or damaged cache by a group of volunteers? Go for it...my time is better spent looking for something that I can find. I will now step off of my soapbox.

The entire geocaching community also has the ability to post a Should Be Archived log. This notifies both owner and reviewer that there may be some issues with this cache. There's no need to create a Special Ops force to do so.

I believe Keystone was referring to 'involuntary' adoption with respect to the no longer active or responsive and soon to be former cache owner, not the volunteering adopter.

But I could be wrong, and do not wish to put words in his mouth. Just tasty sweet potato fritters and biscuits. :D

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...It'd basically be one or more individuals who could go to a site, and decide is it missing, is it on private property, etc and report back to the reviewer so they can have eyes on ground opinions so the reviewer could make the call. ...
So basically, you want to set up a mob of cache police. Will they have to furnish their own pitch forks, or will they be provided?

 

Sir! Step Awaaayy from the mirco....You're under arrest for extreme bad taste in cache placement, section 305 paragraph 4 which specifically relates to dumpsters...

 

Seriously..there are a lot of good points in these logs. Honestly, the last time i looked for the caches was back in October, so I'm not sure what's been done since. I'll have to take another hack at it next time I go out, then if it hasn't been done yet, contact the owner/reviewer etc.

 

We'll have to see what happens then. I just thought it might be an interesting idea is all...

 

--MGb

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I think Keystone has a point. I've met a few reviewers, and they were avid cachers. I can't imagine that if there was something wrong with a cache that they found, that they would allow it to be ignored. However, being active cachers means 2 things: There are a lot of caches that they've not yet laid eyes on, and since they actually cache, they don't spend all of their time scouring the thousands of cache logs in their area looking for excessive DNF's. Post a Needs Maintenance or Should Be Archived log as needed, and you're helping the reviewer keep abreast of situations in the state, and improving the caches in your community.

 

And if it comes down to torches and pitchforks, I want one of those 4 prong hay-forks. More prongs = better cache enforcement action.

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I was thinking it might not be a bad idea to set up a sort of DNF task force, a group of volunteer cachers who could go out and look for these caches that seem to have disappeared, scour the area for potential hiding spots, etc, and report back to the reviewer/owner and set a more definitive word that -yes this cache is either missing, or it's hidden so well God can't find it.

I don't think that this should be done. But if you like you can set up a task force that will replace and maintain the caches instead of reporting the caches state.

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I think we should change the name of the "DNF task force" to simply "the geocaching community." If enough people can't find it and the owner doesn't take action, then members of the "geocaching community" can log an SBA on the cache listing and alert the volunteer reviewers.

 

It's such a great idea I can't believe nobody's thought of this before!

 

:laughing:

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I think we should change the name of the "DNF task force" to simply "the geocaching community." If enough people can't find it and the owner doesn't take action, then members of the "geocaching community" can log an SBA on the cache listing and alert the volunteer reviewers.

 

It's such a great idea I can't believe nobody's thought of this before!

 

:laughing:

Agreed.

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I think we should change the name of the "DNF task force" to simply "the geocaching community." If enough people can't find it and the owner doesn't take action, then members of the "geocaching community" can log an SBA on the cache listing and alert the volunteer reviewers.

 

It's such a great idea I can't believe nobody's thought of this before!

 

:laughing:

Ahem... perhaps you should cast that third eye up a few posts :unsure:<_< .

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