Religious caches

[+BlueDeuce]

look this debate is getting way out of hand!

 

Oh don't worry this is a common discussion; it comes up twice a year at a minimum. My complaint is that this was scheduled for around March and Mr. Vegas bumped the “lame cache” thread that was supposed to be debated now.

 

Or was it “my cache wasn’t approved”?

 

Hmmm, let me go check.

 

(OK, we got the Members only thread and the cache ratings debate going right now. ‘Gc.com needs a new server’ was last month and ‘need more reviewers’ is this February)

 

Yep, it was lame caches.

 

Course you can throw in a travel bug prison thread or even a geocide at any time.

Edited January 6, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[FlagFinder]

I don't see the issue. It's a book where puzzle answers can be found. Even better, it's a book that has been sliced and diced online, so you don't even need to read it to find the puzzle answers.

 

If there were more paragraphs urging you to go to church and talk to a minister about the questions and answers, that'd be different.

 

Using the Bible as a reference source is OK. Going on and on about what a wonderful book it is would constitute an agenda.

 

Oh, and it's a wonderful book.

 

Requiring a person to read a bible to find a cache is pushing a christian agenda. I do not care how you want to sugar coat it, that is what it is.

 

First off you aren't required to read it. You can pass. I know of caches that require that I watch a certain movie. Not interested, so I pass.

 

Second, I don't see the the Bible as a Christian agenda. Its a book of historic significance. To me its also a very nice fairy tale. I am not threatened by it.

i could start a new religion based on the 3 lil pigs now are you gonna read it you dont have to do the cache if you dont want to who cares, maybe you would but its not about you

[+ReadyOrNot]

It takes a lot more than a fictional book like The Bible or The DaVinci Code to offend me.....

 

<HOLDING TONGUE>It always amazes me how people who believe in the theory of evolution get so upset when I call it "Fictional". I'm going to refrain from getting upset, but many people do not view the Bible as fictional. The topic of this thread is not whether the bible is fiction or non-fiction.</HOLDING TONGUE>

 

I do appreciate the general message of your post though, which is that they are both readily available to use to solve puzzles without pushing an agenda.

[+ThreeRushkateers]

Just look up the verses using the Skeptic's Annotated Bible. You might learn something which counters the agenda nicely.

 

I'm an atheist and I think it's OK for this type of cache to exist, although it clearly is pushing an agenda. If it were in my area, I probably wouldn't look for it because I don't enjoy reading the Bible. I would be more likely to put out a puzzle cache about some scientific or non-religious book, though! If they were denied the right for such caches, we would have less freedom for caches we put out. I'm not OK with that.

[+Snoogans]

i could start a new religion based on the 3 lil pigs

 

Funny, because L. Ron...... Naaaaaaa, it ain't worth the warning.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

i could start a new religion based on the 3 lil pigs

 

Funny, because L. Ron...... Naaaaaaa, it ain't worth the warning.

Yes, folks, if you're not offended yet, just stay tuned. We've got plenty more where that came from coming at you in mere moments!

[+flask]

i don't know if i'm the only person with this particular set of credentials, but when i started caching i was an atheist with pagan leanings. WHILE I WAS OUT GEOCACHING i had a full religious conversion and am now a deacon at my church.

 

i was not bothered at all by biblical references, in caches or out.

 

surprise, people! the bible qualifies as literature independent of religious belief.

 

i'm a musician. choral singing is a specialty of mine. as a singer you often perform sacred music. it is not necessary to believe it. it's still good music. i even wrote some sacred music in the Christian tradition; many of my friends were christians and i wrote sacred music because it was meaningful to them.

 

(my conversion is kind of a jaw-dropper for them.)

 

if anything, i'd be more concerned to have the bible used for something as trivial as a game, but outside of that it seems to me to be a non-issue. freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion, but if you don't like a cache, you are free not to visit it.

 

we have a local cache that extolls casablanca as the best movie ever. i don't care for the movie at all, and i probably won't do that cache.

 

and yes, i'd be comfortable with a quran or a book of shadows being used to find coordinates. why not? i'm not afraid of other cultures.

[+werethehekowie]

Here is how I see it. Such a cache is simple enough. I like the hunt, but the find is better. Any book of clues is just that. I can fill in the most of the cache clues without looking them up. So I don't sense an agenda. Maybe I am just peculiar.

[FlagFinder]

i don't know if i'm the only person with this particular set of credentials, but when i started caching i was an atheist with pagan leanings. WHILE I WAS OUT GEOCACHING i had a full religious conversion and am now a deacon at my church.

 

i was not bothered at all by biblical references, in caches or out.

 

surprise, people! the bible qualifies as literature independent of religious belief.

 

i'm a musician. choral singing is a specialty of mine. as a singer you often perform sacred music. it is not necessary to believe it. it's still good music. i even wrote some sacred music in the Christian tradition; many of my friends were christians and i wrote sacred music because it was meaningful to them.

 

(my conversion is kind of a jaw-dropper for them.)

 

if anything, i'd be more concerned to have the bible used for something as trivial as a game, but outside of that it seems to me to be a non-issue. freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion, but if you don't like a cache, you are free not to visit it.

 

we have a local cache that extolls casablanca as the best movie ever. i don't care for the movie at all, and i probably won't do that cache.

 

and yes, i'd be comfortable with a quran or a book of shadows being used to find coordinates. why not? i'm not afraid of other cultures.

well said with the music that better explains it than i could have ever done.

[+JoesBar]

There's a cache in northwest PA that requires the seeker to know Tolkien's 'The Lord of the Rings.' Maybe I missed it, but noone is complaining.

 

Why is it that folks jump up and down every time the Bible is brought to a public forum? I'm Catholic, and if somebody set up a cache that required reading the Koran or the Torah, I wouldn't beef.

[FlagFinder]

There's a cache in northwest PA that requires the seeker to know Tolkien's 'The Lord of the Rings.' Maybe I missed it, but noone is complaining.

 

Why is it that folks jump up and down every time the Bible is brought to a public forum? I'm Catholic, and if somebody set up a cache that required reading the Koran or the Torah, I wouldn't beef.

i wouldnt say its beef but more like when you see a chicken get its head cut off but its true here in the US like 30 years ago no one made a big deal about people talking about the bible but now its like wow im surprised they still have have the president sworn in using a bible. this past week someone here got sworn in using the koran you should have seen that debate.

[adampierson]

It's clear that if a cache has any hint of religeon or politics it runs the chance rubbing someone wrong way. Cachers will have the same hang ups as anyone else you meet in the world. They are people and we are falible. So suck it up, stop being the Grinch, learn to be tolerable and have some fun. Otherwise find another hobby where you can be happy with. Probably a very lonely hobby.

[+BlueDeuce]

It's clear that if a cache has any hint of religeon or politics it runs the chance rubbing someone wrong way. Cachers will have the same hang ups as anyone else you meet in the world. They are people and we are falible. So suck it up, stop being the Grinch, learn to be tolerable and have some fun. Otherwise find another hobby where you can be happy with. Probably a very lonely hobby.

 

Yeah, you wouldn't think the scroll saw community would have anything to bitch about. Somehow they do.

 

Edit: But now that I think about it, I have yet to hear anyone complain about a religious pattern being made available for use. Must be a bunch of bible thumpers in that crowd.

Edited January 7, 2007 by BlueDeuce

[Luckless]

My first reaction on reading the guidelines was "uh oh..." since if this cache is rejected than some of the ones I was thinking about eventually listing are also off limits. I don't have much of an interest in biblically themed caches, but I do have an interest in local and urban agriculture and "green mapping" both of which could be interpreted as pushing environmental agendas. Given that I would be interested in developing these partly to introduce other people to some ideas that I find fun and interesting, I certainly don't have a problem with someone else doing the same thing with what they find of value. Obviously there's a pragmatic line somewhere in here that's going to be difficult to define, as it probably should be, but I don't think these caches cross it.

 

My advice to you is to check your cache ideas out with your reviewer. He's the one designated by the powers that be to make the final decision as to whether a cache gets posted.

[+KingBubbaTruck]

As I see it, many people in america are confusing 'Pursuit of Happiness' with a mythical 'right to not be offended'.

 

Now being forced to suffer from the 'Tyranny of the Offended'.

 

Doesn't matter your point of view or politics, fully grown up people play this childish game everyday.

 

"I'm offended by what you do/believe/say so therefore you can't do/believe/say what you did/believed/said and I'm going to stop you so that you can't offend me".

 

Peronally, I'm offended by people who get offended so easily and I don't think they should be able to offend me by being so easily offended!

Edited January 7, 2007 by KingBubbaTruck

[+FerrisFamilyof5]

As I see it, many people in america are confusing 'Pursuit of Happiness' with the the a mythical 'right to not be offended'.

 

Instead, we are now being forced to suffer from the 'Tyranny of the Offended'.

 

Doesn't matter your point of view or politics, fully grown up people play this childish game everyday.

 

"I'm offended by what you do/believe/say so therefore you can't do/believe/say what you said and I'm going to stop you so that you can't offend me".

 

Peronally, I'm offended by people who get offended so easily and I don't think they should be able to offend me by being so easily offended!

 

I'm offended that your offended by people who are easily offended...we need more tolerance in this world...and your arn showing any....

 

[+Snoogans]

As I see it, many people in america are confusing 'Pursuit of Happiness' with a mythical 'right to not be offended'.

 

Now being forced to suffer from the 'Tyranny of the Offended'.

 

Doesn't matter your point of view or politics, fully grown up people play this childish game everyday.

 

"I'm offended by what you do/believe/say so therefore you can't do/believe/say what you did/believed/said and I'm going to stop you so that you can't offend me".

 

Peronally, I'm offended by people who get offended so easily and I don't think they should be able to offend me by being so easily offended!

 

Hear him O my Brutha's and Sista's!

 

It's a long read but you should all take a look at "Winning the Cultural War," a speech deliverd by Moses at Harvard University in 1999.

 

I'm not a big fan of CH's politics, but I would have stood clapping after that speech. Heck, I may just add it to my profile page.

Edited January 7, 2007 by Snoogans

[+wimseyguy]

I don't see the issue. It's a book where puzzle answers can be found. Even better, it's a book that has been sliced and diced online, so you don't even need to read it to find the puzzle answers.

 

If there were more paragraphs urging you to go to church and talk to a minister about the questions and answers, that'd be different.

 

Using the Bible as a reference source is OK. Going on and on about what a wonderful book it is would constitute an agenda.

 

Oh, and it's a wonderful book.

 

Requiring a person to read a bible to find a cache is pushing a christian agenda. I do not care how you want to sugar coat it, that is what it is.

My brother the rabbi is gonna be so bummed to find out that he's been pushing a Christian agenda by using the bible at work the past 20 years. I seem to remember from Sunday School that some part of that book is geared more for another religion.

I've got no problem with these caches as they are published, and I don't practice any religion. I guess 'bro got all of those agendas when we were sorting them out as kids.

The Geocache Listing Guidelines don't apply to travel bugs.

 

I would enjoy finding the one you described.

 

I also enjoyed moving my Unite for Diabetes TB.

 

OK, back to Bible Puzzle Caches. Most are easily solved by going to BibleGateway.com and searching for text or for chapter and verse. So like I said, you don't even need the book, or to read any more than the snippet returned by the search engine.

I do wonder if repeatedly suggesting a visit to the same website could possibly be construed as promoting an agenda though? Good thing those guidelines do not cover what is discussed in here.

Now please bring me a shrubbery! Hmm, this is the third active thread that I have introduced Pythonesque quotes into. Perhaps I am promoting some sort of agenda as well?

 

 

[+The Leprechauns]

I do wonder if repeatedly suggesting a visit to the same website could possibly be construed as promoting an agenda though?

I still think that your subversive sweet potato agenda ought to get you banninated.

 

Oh, and thanks for the pamphlet. The yams were yummy!

[+Snoogans]

I do wonder if repeatedly suggesting a visit to the same website could possibly be construed as promoting an agenda though?

I still think that your subversive sweet potato agenda ought to get you banninated.

 

Oh, and thanks for the pamphlet. The yams were yummy!

 

I can't stands 'em I says, but my Sweet Potato Tract has an honored place among my sig item collection.

[+Renegade Knight]

...It's a long read but you should all take a look at "Winning the Cultural War," a speech deliverd by Moses at Harvard University in 1999.

...

Nice link and a good read. I question the things he speaks about almost every day.

Edited January 7, 2007 by Renegade Knight

[+Renegade Knight]

As I see it, many people in america are confusing 'Pursuit of Happiness' with a mythical 'right to not be offended'.

 

Now being forced to suffer from the 'Tyranny of the Offended'. ...

 

Well said.

[+ReadyOrNot]

As I see it, many people in america are confusing 'Pursuit of Happiness' with the the a mythical 'right to not be offended'.

 

Instead, we are now being forced to suffer from the 'Tyranny of the Offended'.

 

Doesn't matter your point of view or politics, fully grown up people play this childish game everyday.

 

"I'm offended by what you do/believe/say so therefore you can't do/believe/say what you said and I'm going to stop you so that you can't offend me".

 

Peronally, I'm offended by people who get offended so easily and I don't think they should be able to offend me by being so easily offended!

 

I'm offended that your offended by people who are easily offended...we need more tolerance in this world...and your arn showing any....

 

 

I agree.. But people need to understand what true tolerance is. Tolerance is not accepting the other person's position or being forced into accepting someone else's viewpoint. This is how the world views tolerance today. Tolerance is simply accepting that the other person has a different viewpoint and having the right to NOT agree with that viewpoint.

 

As a Christian, when I say, "I believe A, B, C, D, etc.", people often tell me, "You are being intollerant".??? What?!?!?!?! Just because I disagree with you, I'm intollerant? I just can't tollerate that.

[+Team Teuton]

"I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." - Charles Darwin

 

What was Darwin speculating on when he wrote that?

[Suscrofa]

 

I agree.. But people need to understand what true tolerance is. Tolerance is not accepting the other person's position or being forced into accepting someone else's viewpoint. This is how the world views tolerance today. Tolerance is simply accepting that the other person has a different viewpoint and having the right to NOT agree with that viewpoint.

 

As a Christian, when I say, "I believe A, B, C, D, etc.", people often tell me, "You are being intollerant".??? What?!?!?!?! Just because I disagree with you, I'm intollerant? I just can't tollerate that.

 

I TOTALLY agree ! This kind of "tolerance" is a misnommer and with the PC, the obsession to please everyone, is currently spoiling our western society.

 

It has been said that "Tolerance is the virtue of a man without conviction" and this is so true. We have lost all our values and convictions and are ready to accept, indeed "tolerate" the intolerable !

 

Tolerance is to accept that someone has a different opinion, not to accept this opinion ever less abide by it. And if this difference is against the majority's opinion or interest, you have the right to say so and take action against it especially if it threaten the majority.

 

You will always displease a group of people, so what ? Democracy is about the majority, not to comply to all the desires of all the minorities all the time.

It is becoming like minorities imposing their dictatorship.

 

I live in France, a disaster in the making, a wholle society on the brink of collapse and "excessive biased tolerance" in education, justice etc... is certainly one of the reason for it.

[+Renegade Knight]

"I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." - Charles Darwin

 

What was Darwin speculating on when he wrote that?

 

The odds are it was his work that led to the theory of evolution.

[+SixDogTeam]

Clear violation of the guidelines.

 

only those with a religious agenda would excuse this. if the book was the koran you'd see different attitudes on those same people.

 

all of those should have a SBA posted.

 

Clearly NOT a violation of the guidelines.

Only those with an anti-religious agenda would object to this.

If the book was the Koran, you'd see the same attitudes displayed by those same people.

 

None of those should have an SBA posted.

[tttedzeins]

"I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." - Charles Darwin

 

What was Darwin speculating on when he wrote that?

 

The odds are it was his work that led to the theory of evolution.

 

Yeah but that evolved over time.

 

When I first read the OP I figured there was an agenda, but you good people have made me reconsider my opinion. NOW I figure that the OP is the one with the agenda

 

Having been a born again christian in a previous life I am quite sensitive to all that stuff, but then the ex told me I was a soulless b@$*&rd (and as we all know women are always right) so I figured that it must all be wrong cos if I don't have a soul then it can't be saved and can't go to heaven so there can't be a heaven, so it is all ... well you get the point.

[+rhelt100]

I've often wondered about caches of this sort. Personally, I don't have any issue with them, but I think this is because I was brought up Christian.

 

 

I know several have already commented on what I'm about to say, but I'm going to say it anyways. Before you make a real decision on this, you need to put yourself in somebody else's shoes. What if the book referenced is the Koran? or the Necronomicon? or better yet... what if you're asked to get information from verses in the Satanic Bible? (yes there is such a thing, I just looked it up)

 

 

Looking at it this way makes me think. I'm not a very religious person, but due to my upbringing I would have issues with a cache that referenced the Satanic Bible. I could, of course, just ignore it. But, I think I would consider this a cache with a religious agenda.

[+KingBubbaTruck]

I'd treat it the way I'd treat anything else.

 

Satanic Bible? Eh, not really interested and nobody is twisting my arm to go and log the cache so I probably wouldn't do it. Oh, it's part of a Halloween themed cache? Done in a cemetary after dark? Hmmm, Well, that does sound a little interesting so why not pull out the ole' necromicon and give it a look see. Maybe I'll get a good scare and not be able to sleep for a night or two. I'm secure enough in my beliefs to not let a little thing like a geo-cache stray me off course...

 

I wouldn't avoid it or seek it out for any of those reasons. Just because the placer of the cache may or may not have an agenda doesn't mean I have to buy into their agenda. In this great county of freedom I'm perfectly free to make my own decisions, as is anyone else.

 

Not to change topic, but for example, Mr. Ellison who just joined Congress used his post swearing in photo op to be shown taking a ceremonial oath on the Koran. You know what? I think that's exactly what he should have done... Just like a Jew should use a torah, a Christian a bible, etc.... Whatever it takes for them to take the oath to protect our country seriously, I support...

Edited January 8, 2007 by KingBubbaTruck

[+Snoogans]

I know several have already commented on what I'm about to say, but I'm going to say it anyways. Before you make a real decision on this, you need to put yourself in somebody else's shoes.

 

What if the book referenced is the Koran?

 

Bring it on!! I have one so I'll be prepared.

 

or the Necronomicon?

 

You DO know that the Necronomicon is a figment of H.P. Lovecraft's wonderfully sick mind that has become somewhat of an urban legend. It's horror/fiction. Nothing more.

 

Anyone who believes it's a real ancient text also believes in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny, or hasn't taken the time to know what they're talking about.

 

I may just hafta do a cache with that one.

 

or better yet... what if you're asked to get information from verses in the Satanic Bible? (yes there is such a thing, I just looked it up)

 

I'll pass on that one, but then I'd pass on a Scientology cache as well since I threw my copy of Dianetics in the trash in 1985. I wouldn't feel offended/threatened by them though.

[+Snoogans]

Not to change topic, but for example, Mr. Ellison who just joined Congress used his post swearing in photo op to be shown taking a ceremonial oath on the Koran. You know what? I think that's exactly what he should have done... Just like a Jew should use a torah, a Christian a bible, etc.... Whatever it takes for them to take the oath to protect our country seriously, I support...

 

Yuppp! I hear ya. It's like we were separated at birth mannnnnn.

 

We have NO STATE RELIGION. Thank God. (If that was a pun it was most certainly intended.)

[+briansnat]

"I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." - Charles Darwin

 

What was Darwin speculating on when he wrote that?

 

It wasn't evolution. Those who intimate otherwise are either lying or mistaken.

[+Snoogans]

"I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." - Charles Darwin

 

What was Darwin speculating on when he wrote that?

 

It wasn't evolution. Those who intimate otherwise are either lying or mistaken.

 

Words taken out of context can be used to say anything we like.

[+Thrak]

It's a freaking puzzle cache. Let it go. Thank god I'm an atheist.

 

I don't have issues with books. What's the problem? I totally LOVE Christmas - including the religious Christmas music - but I don't celebrate it as a religious holiday. Likeways I can do a puzzle cache requiring research in on of the world's bestselling books without passing judgement on the content.

 

Heck, I could research the Hardy Boys for cache info without worrying that someone was pushing a Hardy Boys agenda.

 

I'm one of the least politically correct people you could find. I have no problem with these caches.

[+werethehekowie]

Not to change topic, but for example, Mr. Ellison who just joined Congress used his post swearing in photo op to be shown taking a ceremonial oath on the Koran. You know what? I think that's exactly what he should have done... Just like a Jew should use a torah, a Christian a bible, etc.... Whatever it takes for them to take the oath to protect our country seriously, I support...

 

Yuppp! I hear ya. It's like we were separated at birth mannnnnn.

 

We have NO STATE RELIGION. Thank God. (If that was a pun it was most certainly intended.)

[+Confucius' Cat]

if anything, i'd be more concerned to have the bible used for something as trivial as a game, but outside of that it seems to me to be a non-issue. freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion, but if you don't like a cache, you are free not to visit it.

An interesting thought in light of the "purple heart" thread that is currently running. Several posters are claiming offence about using a modified likeness of or even the words "ph" as a tongue-in-cheek award. Their complaint/logic is that using it for something trivial demeans those who have earned it.

 

Easily the same can be said for using the Bible this way.

 

The same basic argument is made for people who take offence to others that log bogus finds.

 

It is interesting that more people have not taken off on this theme.

 

I TOTALLY agree ! This kind of "tolerance" is a misnommer and with the PC, the obsession to please everyone, is currently spoiling our western society.

 

It has been said that "Tolerance is the virtue of a man without conviction" and this is so true. We have lost all our values and convictions and are ready to accept, indeed "tolerate" the intolerable !

 

Tolerance is to accept that someone has a different opinion, not to accept this opinion ever less abide by it. And if this difference is against the majority's opinion or interest, you have the right to say so and take action against it especially if it threaten the majority.

 

You will always displease a group of people, so what ? Democracy is about the majority, not to comply to all the desires of all the minorities all the time.

It is becoming like minorities imposing their dictatorship.

 

I live in France, a disaster in the making, a wholle society on the brink of collapse and "excessive biased tolerance" in education, justice etc... is certainly one of the reason for it.

Absolutely!

 

I am so glad to see someone else in the world that realises what the PC thing is doing to our society. I, myself have fallen victim to this in regard to caching. It is kinda funny. I have known all along that one cannot please everybody. Yet it would seem that not to try somehow makes you a heel or something.

 

I believe good people sincerely WANT to please everybody. That is what makes the PC "tolerance" such a vicious trap.

[+VeryLost]

Give us this day 1

Give us this day 2

Guve us this day 3

 

Looks fine to me. Plenty of cache clues are based upon works of fiction, these are no different.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Here's a take that no one else seems to have brought up yet:

 

If, by some strange magic, you visit a religious cache and it actually wins you over to that religion, then are you going to complain that it did?

 

If you visit a religious cache and it does not win you over, then has it really done anything to you worth mentioning?

 

If it converts you then you'll be happy about it. If it doesn't convert you, then it's no harm/no foul.

[+VeryLost]

You DO know that the Necronomicon is a figment of H.P. Lovecraft's wonderfully sick mind that has become somewhat of an urban legend. It's horror/fiction. Nothing more.

 

I've got one of the various books printed over the years with that title. It is, as you say, fictional (in fact, I'd go so far as to call it a hoax), but it's a remarkably well done one.

 

Now I'm going to have to dig it out and see if I can come up with some way to work it into a cache. This thread has come dangerously close to inspiring me to do a series of caches based on non-Christian religious works.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I've got one of the various books printed over the years with that title. It is, as you say, fictional (in fact, I'd go so far as to call it a hoax), but it's a remarkably well done one.

 

Now I'm going to have to dig it out and see if I can come up with some way to work it into a cache. This thread has come dangerously close to inspiring me to do a series of caches based on non-Christian religious works.

Tactless as usual. Geez, man, couldn't you at least try to be nice?

[+VeryLost]

I've got one of the various books printed over the years with that title. It is, as you say, fictional (in fact, I'd go so far as to call it a hoax), but it's a remarkably well done one.

 

Now I'm going to have to dig it out and see if I can come up with some way to work it into a cache. This thread has come dangerously close to inspiring me to do a series of caches based on non-Christian religious works.

Tactless as usual. Geez, man, couldn't you at least try to be nice?

 

Eh? How was I tactless or not nice? I've got no problem with the caches discussed in the OP. The numerous comments by others speculating about reaction to caches with puzzles based on other religious works intrigues me. If you're offended by the possibility that I might place such caches, well, what can I say - that's not a problem that concerns me.

[adampierson]

I vote this topic be closed. Clearly most people don't have a problem with this cache. And this topic will never be fully settled.

[+KingBubbaTruck]

I've got one of the various books printed over the years with that title. It is, as you say, fictional (in fact, I'd go so far as to call it a hoax), but it's a remarkably well done one.

 

Now I'm going to have to dig it out and see if I can come up with some way to work it into a cache. This thread has come dangerously close to inspiring me to do a series of caches based on non-Christian religious works.

 

Cool, if you do, can you make it a night only cache?

 

In a spooky locale?

 

Might make it worth going to Il for ....

[+Snoogans]

You DO know that the Necronomicon is a figment of H.P. Lovecraft's wonderfully sick mind that has become somewhat of an urban legend. It's horror/fiction. Nothing more.

 

I've got one of the various books printed over the years with that title. It is, as you say, fictional (in fact, I'd go so far as to call it a hoax), but it's a remarkably well done one.

 

It just shows to go that a wonderfully sick mind can set things in motion and keep them in motion long after their own demise.

 

It's a blatant self fulfilling delusion the way most of the Necronomicon believer sites are set up. It’s entertaining and sad at the same time.

 

I love the last sentence of the conclusion to the truth of its authenticity on this site: "You know it's true," as if they can't even convince themselves.

Edited January 8, 2007 by Snoogans

[+ReadyOrNot]

"I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." - Charles Darwin

 

What was Darwin speculating on when he wrote that?

 

The odds are it was his work that led to the theory of evolution.

 

Darwin understood that "evolution" was simply a theory. Even he understood that. Folks today seem to think that evolution is some kind of scientific fact. Evolution is not a proven theory. Anyone that thinks evolution is a PROVEN theory needs to join me in the off-topic forum to discuss this further

 

I only bring this up because someone quoted my tagline.

[+ReadyOrNot]

"I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." - Charles Darwin

 

What was Darwin speculating on when he wrote that?

 

It wasn't evolution. Those who intimate otherwise are either lying or mistaken.

 

That's what he was talking about. All the quote represents is that he understood his speculations were theories and could not withstand the scrutiny of the scientific method. No different than Creationism. Creationism cannot withstand the scruity of the scientific method either. Both theories require an extraordinary amount of faith.

 

I'm trying to find a way to tie this into geocaching, but it just isn't happening. My apologies for going off topic, but this is a response and not instigated by me

[+briansnat]

That's what he was talking about. All the quote represents is that he understood his speculations were theories and could not withstand the scrutiny of the scientific method.

 

Actually the quote came from a letter to Dr. Asa Gray and they were specifically discussing his theories regarding the extinction of species. And when he referred to "true science" he was referring to Baconian scientific methodology which was the predominant school of scientific thought at that time. It no longer is and Darwin was among the early adopters of modern scientific method.

Edited January 8, 2007 by briansnat

[tttedzeins]

what if you're asked to get information from verses in the Satanic Bible? (yes there is such a thing, I just looked it up)

 

Just to go a bit OT here, you have to be careful not to confuse Satanism with the junk you see on TV and movies ie. Worshipping the christians devil. A lot of what the true Satanists teach makes a whole bunch of sense, they in no way endorse human/animal sacrifice or the harming of children. Some of the Sananic sins are: herd conformity and self deciet.

 

This is a good site for an overview of most religions.

 

Back On Topic:

 

If the cache was interesting enough I would go for it, especially if it involved reading a religious text of which I knew nothing about. Other peoples religions really interest me. Perhaps if more people read the bible they would not be so afraid of it or misquote it.

[+ReadyOrNot]

That's what he was talking about. All the quote represents is that he understood his speculations were theories and could not withstand the scrutiny of the scientific method.

 

Actually the quote came from a letter to Dr. Asa Gray and they were specifically discussing his theories regarding the extinction of species. And when he referred to "true science" he was referring to Baconian scientific methodology which was the predominant school of scientific thought at that time. It no longer is and Darwin was among the early adopters of modern scientific method.

 

How exactly was evolution proven? Evolution is full of speculation, with little actual science. Micro evolution exists, but what commonly occurs (and one can find this in many student textbooks) is an assertion is made that demonstrates micro evolution, such as micro changes as seen in the finches in the Galapagos islands. But the leap from Micro evolution to Macro evolution involves a leap of faith. Micro evolution can be proven scientifically, but Macro evolution remains purely theoretical (as well as chemical evolution and cosmic evolution).. But the textbooks pull a bait and switch. They get you to buy Micro (which is true) and then shove Macro down your throat using the evidences from Micro evolution.

 

There are many "proofs" in nature which make evolution on a macro scale impossible. And further, evolution does nothing to explain the "Origins of species".

 

You should move this topic to "Off Topic" because I would LOVE to continue this discussion and get into the nitty gritty details with you.. Maybe you can convert me to your religion

Edited January 8, 2007 by ReadyOrNot