Can you list a cache that is only available at certain times?

[+WeatherednBoston]

I recently completed all cache requirements to log this Delorme Challenge cache:

 

GCYJY1

 

If you know about the Delorme challenge you know how much time, gas and energy it takes to complete a cache like this. I completed all cache requirements within 3 days and have had trouble logging the final for over a month now.

 

My problems have been:

 

You have to make arrangements with the owner to log the cache...you just cant go to the given coords. You have to set up an appointment lol

 

I have made arrangements twice...first appointment fell through when I was not given the coords to the final...second try...owner did not show up at arranged time and cache was not placed at the coords that were provided to me.

 

My question is:

 

If you place a cache can you keep it in your house and only let people "find it" by having them email you to make an appointment...and at that point you place the cache outside at the given time. Then take it back in your house once the appointment time has passed?

 

I believe this is what is happening here to me. Is that really allowed?

 

If so I will probably place a cache at my front door but only place it out there when someone emails me letting me know they would like to come "find it". But I honestly thought that this was NOT allowed.

[+The Leprechauns]

I don't like that arrangement one bit. The final cache ought to be out someplace in the woods, rather than having its location manipulated at the hider's whim. There are several challenge caches set up that way. When I hid the Pennsylvania version I made sure it had a good hike at the end, and every person who qualifies to find it has received instructions within a few days of submitting their eligible finds.

 

After all that work, you should receive an e-mail with the coordinates and other instructions (by itself, that requires a guidelines exception), and then be able to proceed to the final cache.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'll agree with The Leprechauns. The final cache should be a regular cache hide. When we finished the Tour de Cache - NJ Counties (far easier than a DeLorme challenge... Only required twety-one finds, but each stage had to be capable of holding a travel bug,) we received the coordinated for the final stage. A very nice hide, centrally located. We did meet the cache owner there, but that was entirely coincidental.

[+BBWolf+3Pigs]

I don't like that arrangement one bit. The final cache ought to be out someplace in the woods, rather than having its location manipulated at the hider's whim. There are several challenge caches set up that way. When I hid the Pennsylvania version I made sure it had a good hike at the end, and every person who qualifies to find it has received instructions within a few days of submitting their eligible finds.

 

After all that work, you should receive an e-mail with the coordinates and other instructions (by itself, that requires a guidelines exception), and then be able to proceed to the final cache.

 

Ditto. With one exception.

 

If someone completes my challenge (Rhode Island - all 12 pages!), but cannot do the final due to physical limitations, I will make arrangements to bring the cache out of the woods to the parking area.

[+WeatherednBoston]

I don't like that arrangement one bit. The final cache ought to be out someplace in the woods, rather than having its location manipulated at the hider's whim. There are several challenge caches set up that way. When I hid the Pennsylvania version I made sure it had a good hike at the end, and every person who qualifies to find it has received instructions within a few days of submitting their eligible finds.

 

After all that work, you should receive an e-mail with the coordinates and other instructions (by itself, that requires a guidelines exception), and then be able to proceed to the final cache.

 

I wish I could embark on a good long hike to log the final instead of having to beg repeatedly to log the final.

[+WeatherednBoston]

 

If someone completes my challenge (Rhode Island - all 12 pages!), but cannot do the final due to physical limitations, I will make arrangements to bring the cache out of the woods to the parking area.

 

Thank you for responding! I have wanted to start the RI challenge but didn't know if yours was set up the same way. I figure...why bother if logging the final is so hard.

 

I will want to start and finish the RI one soon! Perhaps I will get to log yours first

 

I hope the NH one is set up like yours as well.

[+Loch Cache]

I recently completed all cache requirements to log this Delorme Challenge cache:

 

GCYJY1

 

If you know about the Delorme challenge you know how much time, gas and energy it takes to complete a cache like this. I completed all cache requirements within 3 days and have had trouble logging the final for over a month now.

 

My problems have been:

 

You have to make arrangements with the owner to log the cache...you just cant go to the given coords. You have to set up an appointment lol

 

I have made arrangements twice...first appointment fell through when I was not given the coords to the final...second try...owner did not show up at arranged time and cache was not placed at the coords that were provided to me.

 

My question is:

 

If you place a cache can you keep it in your house and only let people "find it" by having them email you to make an appointment...and at that point you place the cache outside at the given time. Then take it back in your house once the appointment time has passed?

 

I believe this is what is happening here to me. Is that really allowed?

 

If so I will probably place a cache at my front door but only place it out there when someone emails me letting me know they would like to come "find it". But I honestly thought that this was NOT allowed.

 

As the owner of the cache I take offence to not being contacted directly, but having this placed in the forums instead. But since it is here I will respond here.

 

I will just say that the cache is located next to my garage. Sometimes on the left, sometimes on the right, sometimes behind it, but always next to the garage when there is someone who has qualified to find it. (If everyone who has completed the challenged has found the final there is no need to keep it outside.) It is an oversized container (13 gallon tub) stocked with lots of stuff such as hats, CD holders, T-Shirts, etc, that you would not find in an average cache. I do not wish to leave it in the woods to get muggled. It is nice that others have set up a long hike at the end of their challenges, for this one I wanted to be an easy finish without using too much gas or time.

 

The requirement to email me is to get the caches verified (which I state I will do in 72 hours) and not to set up an appointment. I need a few days to verify some of the finds. I trust that each cacher has personally found and physically signed the logbooks at all the caches they list. I go to at least two caches to check, but obviously can’t check them all. The only reason I would like to know when you are coming by to find the final is so I can meet and greet those who have completed the challenge. (Also to warn my wife someone might be lurking around the garage.) Twice you said you were coming by, once you did not and the other time I never saw you even though I was home. (The cache was sitting next to the garage.)

 

As far as taking a month since completing the requirements you failed to mention going to Florida for several weeks and that you have not made an attempt to contact me or find the final since 12-9. Also, you forgot to mention that the first group of coords you sent had three errors in it which delayed verification. And finally, for the record, I am not sure where you get three days. The dates you submitted to me range from 10-5 to 11-26 and cover at least 10 different days.

 

If you want to contact me, you know my email. If you want to log the final, stop by anytime, it is a big blue tub next to the garage.

 

Loch Cache

 

PS. Here is a link to the cache page. Click Here The guidelines are clear and similar to the other Delorme Challenges.

[+Kabuthunk]

I may be mistaken, but I believe the term "pwned" would be appropriate here.

 

As for the situation as a whole... I can somewhat see both sides of the coin, so to speak. On one side, you can't get the cache as much "at your leisure" if you need to wait for the final to be placed, so to speak. On the other side of the coin... I can see not wanting to keep a ton of more expensive things in a large, by the sound of it quite visible, container lying around if you know that absolutely noone will be looking for it legitimately, until they've done the prior caches.

 

But... from the sound of it, looks like the original poster's description was a bit exaggerated. And given it evidently takes a very long time to complete the entire challange... waiting an extra day or so for the final wouldn't really bother me. There's been one or two multi-part or related puzzle-type caches where a decent amount of time has passed before I got to the end of it.

 

So yeah... long and short of it... in my opinion, minor annoyance, but wouldn't bother me to the point of complaining in any way.

[+sbell111]

I would be bummed if I found all the necessary caches and then found out that the final was next to your garage, since I would skip it for that reason alone.

 

The 'appointment' issue is also very irritating.

 

Thankfully, other states do the 'challenge' better.

Edited January 2, 2007 by sbell111

[+WeatherednBoston]

Loch since you say the cache is permanently placed, I will be there within the next few days to sign the log book. No need to leave any items in there...I have no intention of "picking out a prize" or trading any TB's. All I want to do is sign the log book and get my hard earned smiley!!!!!! So please...all you need to do is have the log book out there for me.

 

Sounds like an appointment is not necessary any longer...I dont know why I had to set up a time before. I really dont like caching in the dark or late at night. I do most of my caching during daylight hours so I can see what I'm doing. Last appointment was for 7:30 am...and I was there at 7:15 until 7:30 am and I couldnt find the cache anywhere. First I searched at the given coords then I searched on all sides of your garage. I even had to enter the secured fenced in yard to search around the whole garage. I really didnt like doing that at all. Felt like I was trespassing. But since you knew I was coming I sure did enter the yard...was trying to get it over and done with and be on my way. Was on my way to a geocaching event in NH and had no time to waste seeing as prizes were being given away for event caches if you were FTF and if I had waited any longer I would not have had the chance at FTF. (Yes, I got a FTF Woot!)

 

As far as taking this to the forums instead of contacting you directly...I have done everything in my power to log this final. I felt as if contacting you for a third appt ...felt like I had to beg or something lol I wasnt gonna beg. Getting one smiley should not be this hard.

 

I searched around your garage really well...theres not many things there...I even opened up the trash barrels and looked inside them! Oh well. I will be there soon.

Edited January 3, 2007 by WeatherednBoston

[+Loch Cache]

Loch since you say the cache is permanently placed, I will be there within the next few days to sign the log book. No need to leave any items in there...I have no intention of "picking out a prize" or trading any TB's. All I want to do is sign the log book and get my hard earned smiley!!!!!! So please...all you need to do is have the log book out there for me.

 

Sounds like an appointment is not necessary any longer...I dont know why I had to set up a time before. I really dont like caching in the dark or late at night. I do most of my caching during daylight hours so I can see what I'm doing. Last appointment was for 7:30 am...and I was there at 7:15 until 7:30 am and I couldnt find the cache anywhere. First I searched at the given coords then I searched on all sides of your garage. I even had to enter the secured fenced in yard to search around the whole garage. I really didnt like doing that at all. Felt like I was trespassing. But since you knew I was coming I sure did enter the yard...was trying to get it over and done with and be on my way. Was on my way to a geocaching event in NH and had no time to waste seeing as prizes were being given away for event caches if you were FTF and if I had waited any longer I would not have had the chance at FTF. (Yes, I got a FTF Woot!)

 

As far as taking this to the forums instead of contacting you directly...I have done everything in my power to log this final. I felt as if contacting you for a third appt ...felt like I had to beg or something lol I wasnt gonna beg. Getting one smiley should not be this hard.

 

I searched around your garage really well...theres not many things there...I even opened up the trash barrels and looked inside them! Oh well. I will be there soon.

 

Good. I do not want anything to be a barrier to that smillie. Since I may or may not be home I will leave it outside the fence on the left so the dog won't bother you. Please feel free to take something anyway, no trading needed. There are coffee mugs, hats, stuffed singing doll and even a TB or two.

 

Loch Cache

[+The Cheeseheads]

If you place a cache can you keep it in your house and only let people "find it" by having them email you to make an appointment...and at that point you place the cache outside at the given time. Then take it back in your house once the appointment time has passed?

As the owner of the Wisconsin DeLorme cache, I can understand not leaving the cache out 24/7. Since nobody can hunt the cache unless I give them the coordinates, and nobody gets the coordinates unless they finish the series, there's no reason to leave the cache out all the time and risk a muggling.

 

However... by doing this, I am putting the responsibility on myself to check the validity of a potential finder's finds and resetting the cache in a timely manner. I don't require an "appointment". I'll place the cache, then send out the coordinates. I'll pick up the cache after it gets logged online.

[+NevaP]

I am the owner of the Nebraska Delorme Challenge Cache.

 

I spent some time yesterday in polite e-mail conversation with the PTB at Groundspeak clarifying how we handle our cache container and log. We had been taking it to events where those who had completed the challenge signed the log but to comply with the guidelines that ban moving caches we will no longer do this.

 

The cache will continue to reside at the given coordinates (which are my backyard) and it will now stay there and be available 24/7. It's fastened to a tree with a bicycle cord and it's padlocked. Only those who have completed the challenge get the combination for the padlock. We will continue to maintain an unofficial fancy logbook, which resides in a decorated container, which will travel to recognition events where verified Delorme Challenge loggers may record more lengthy descriptions of their adventures if they wish to do so. But the official log is the one in the locked backyard container and it must be signed at that location.

 

I think a challenge cache, Delorme, county or whatever is about doing the challenge and not finding the final cache. It's a recognition of caching achievement. That's why I chose the easy to find padlocked container and I think this is an acceptable alternative to one put somewhere with secret coordinates.

 

Someone mentioned that they wanted the final container to be a good hunt. Out here in the hinterlands doing a Delorme or County challenge takes a good deal of effort. For Nebraska it means driving 2000 to 3000 miles and traversing some iffy back roads because some of our caches, the only one in a county or on a Delorme page, are in somewhat remote areas. When the required caches have finally been found (65 for our Delorme, 93 for our County challenge) the cacher doesn't seem to mind that the final cache is as we birders say, a gimme. I realize that people in small states with fewer caches to find might want a good one for the final log.

 

I do think Groundspeak needs to consider guidelines for challenge and compilation caches as these are becoming more numerous and popular.

[+The Leprechauns]

Under another (shared) account, I am a co-owner of the Pennsylvania DeLorme Challenge. The cache stays in place 24/7 because I don't feel like hiking more than ten miles every time someone qualifies to find it. The most recent log was a hard-earned DNF on the final cache. As illustrated by that log rather graphically, the biggest risk to my cache container is from the ursine variant of genus muggle. Our philosophy in hiding the cache was to provide a memorable experience as a capstone to the likewise memorable process of collecting the 69 required map grid caches. That being said, we have a secret method available so that the cache can be logged in place by a geocacher who is physically limited to two-star terrain. It may or may not involve borrowing a helicopter from the Vinny and Sue Team. And therein lies one of the beautiful things about geocaching: caches don't all need to be the same; each is unique. You can have a DeLorme Challenge final that's a park and grab, or you can have one that's a memorable hike.

 

Also under another account, I have acted in the role of volunteer cache reviewer for no fewer than four other "Challenge" caches -- two DeLorme Challenges and two "All Counties" Challenges. A DeLorme Challenge cache , by definition, involves a minimum of two listing guideline violations and usually at least three violations. I take great care to review each Challenge cache submission just like it was any other mystery/unknown cache, and I work with the cache owner to explain how and why I am granting an exception to the listing guidelines. This guarantees a detailed back and forth process between reviewer and cache owner to cover the listing guideline issues raised by the challenge cache -- often taking weeks and a dozen or more messages being exchanged. The existing guidelines are, IMHO, entirely adequate to address challenge caches. The reviewer is never obligated to agree to an exception to the guidelines. Thus, as a cache reviewer I could feel free to deny a "Wal-Mart Challenge" cache if one were to be submitted.

[+LaPaglia]

If you place a cache can you keep it in your house and only let people "find it" by having them email you to make an appointment...and at that point you place the cache outside at the given time. Then take it back in your house once the appointment time has passed?

As the owner of the Wisconsin DeLorme cache, I can understand not leaving the cache out 24/7. Since nobody can hunt the cache unless I give them the coordinates, and nobody gets the coordinates unless they finish the series, there's no reason to leave the cache out all the time and risk a muggling.

 

However... by doing this, I am putting the responsibility on myself to check the validity of a potential finder's finds and resetting the cache in a timely manner. I don't require an "appointment". I'll place the cache, then send out the coordinates. I'll pick up the cache after it gets logged online.

 

What about those that have already found the cache and want to revisit? Why should they be required to make an appointment to visit a cache they already earned the right to visit?

[+WeatherednBoston]

Well the cache owner did put the cache outside for me to find and I got to sign the log book today. So this topic can be closed down now.

 

Thank you all for your opinions and comments.