Do you check your logs?

[+Ichabod]

I recently put out a puzzle series of five caches. A couple of days after the FTF, another cacher logged a find on all five caches (2nd to find.) The logs were highly suspect, and I have subsequently discovered that this cacher did not sign three of the five logs, so I have deleted the lot.

 

I don't typically compare the actual log to the on-line log, but the nature of the logs, and other factors made me look in this case.

 

How many of you make a regular comparison and possibly delete bogus logs? It is rather sorry that the situation exists at all.

[+Snoogans]

The logs were highly suspect, and I have subsequently discovered that this cacher did not sign three of the five logs, so I have deleted the lot.

 

You deleted ALL five logs? Or just the three?

 

If all five....Why?

 

I don't typically compare the actual log to the on-line log, but the nature of the logs, and other factors made me look in this case.

 

How many of you make a regular comparison and possibly delete bogus logs? It is rather sorry that the situation exists at all.

 

I sometimes compare, but I don't delete logs. (for the most part)

[+TrailGators]

Amazing how dishonest some people are.... I have never checked because I would rather not lift that rock....

[+Airmapper]

I will compare, but haven't gotten around to deleting many yet. I deleted a bogus cache threat once, and I left one suspect log just to keep from starting some issue where I have some nut annoying me. I may get rid of it later.

[+Ichabod]

The logs were highly suspect, and I have subsequently discovered that this cacher did not sign three of the five logs, so I have deleted the lot.

 

You deleted ALL five logs? Or just the three?

 

If all five....Why?

 

 

Yes, I did delete all five. Due to some bizarre circumstances, which I don't care to go into, it became obvious that the gc account in question is most certainly a sock puppet. He had only two finds prior to finding my five, which would have required him to travel a bare minimum of 32 miles around the metro area. If he lied about three, I see no reason why he didn't lie about the other two.

[+StarBrand]

Not regularly but I have had reason to check them when i saw some very suspicious logging patterns. Only led to some deletions 1 time that could not be cleared up with some emails.

[+Bad_CRC]

no. I don't really see how it hurts me or anyone else if someone is cheating, so I dont see a need to start trouble. if they want to log my caches without finding them, hopefully my caches are good enough that it's their loss.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I rarely check. I don't want to beat down that cacher's path anymore than it already is. All the same, I've found entries on the paper log that weren't online, but never the other way around.

[+kc8bdr]

I also have found names in the log book that had not logged on line, that does not bother me if that is how they want to play the game fine by me.

 

I have never verified an on line log, not worth my time. (Time best spent getting a few finds of my own ) The way I see it an online log says that the cache was in place with out any major problems (Unless otherwise noted in that log) so a fake log has the potential to be misleading, both to me as the cache owner and the next finder.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Nope, never have, never intend to!

 

The game is about fun, and policing the game isn't fun for me. I don't encourage cheats, but I don't hunt them down either.

 

I used to; In the mid-seventies I was one of the busier repossession agents in Riverside CA , did some skip tracing, repossessed cars and boats... If you got your car or boat by deception or didn't make your payments you could expect me to come calling. I got paid for that. I don't get paid for keeping cachers honest!

 

No fun + No pay = I don't do it!

 

Ed

[+ReadyOrNot]

With all the posts I make in the forums about this topic, I actually have never checked the online log against the paper log on any of my caches. Would be interesting to do this and see if there are any differences. I have deleted a log once. Someone clearly meant to post a note regarding a travel bug that was in my cache, but accidently posted it as a smiley. They were very pleasant about the whole thing and corrected the mistake.

[+BadAndy]

I have never compared the two against each other and I seriously doubt I ever will. It's just not that important to me.

[+OHMIKY]

When I do maintenance I read logs - I do not compare them to the logs on the site - and don't really care. If folks want to log a find who have not actually visited the cache, I figure it is no skin off MY nose - and if they can fool themselves into believing that they have a 'find' more power to them for such a flexible reality.

 

The neat thing is sometimes I find the visitors log a find in the cache who never log online, and those are neat logs to find.

[+nikcap]

I will verify signatures in the logbook with online logs. Fortunately, we've have not had a problem with bogus online logs in my area.

If I did see a name in online that didn't match the log book, I would inquire with that cacher. I would assume that they found something. Maybe another cache or letterbox or something. I would also give the cacher the opportunity to correct their log entry. Maybe they meant to log a DNF or note, but the log defaulted to a find.

I'm naive, I don't assume cachers are cheating.

Edited December 28, 2006 by ekitt10

[ParentsofSAM]

Well we have and it started nothing but trouble so we will never again.

 

We do and have delete logs when people log more than one find on our caches. That has happened more than a few times!

[CoyoteRed]

Yes, we reconcile logbooks with online logs on maintenance trips. It's quite amazing who will log a find and clearly did not find the cache. Fortunately, it doesn't happen often.

 

We consider it simply part of our duties as responsible cache owners.

[+Ichabod]

 

The neat thing is sometimes I find the visitors log a find in the cache who never log online, and those are neat logs to find.

 

I agree. I always enjoy all the logs that were never posted on-line.

[+ScoutingWV]

There are a lot of ways to play this game.

 

If someone logs a book and not online the owner may be happily surprised. If someone logs neither it's considered their choice as to how they play the game. I don't understand why someone who may choose to not sign a logbook or even forget to do so (yes it can happen especially if you hunt with a group of fellow cachers) is branded a "cheater".

 

Sure, if I log my finds on the web site for caches I say I found in Maine, Texas, Minnesota, Florida, Egypt, and England in the same day, odds are good that I would be cheating but it still isn't necessarily the case. I could be catching up on my logs after a business trip. And I don't think I should be able to log a cache as "found" more than once. But please don't read the rule to me about having to find the container and sign the log in order to make a find valid. I know it's there. Really, it's a guideline and a suggestion. I think people should play the game in a way that they enjoy and doesn't harm anyone else or break any laws.

 

Only my opinion. I am now putting on my flame-proof suit...

[+geocacher_coza]

I think people should play the game in a way that they enjoy and doesn't harm anyone else or break any laws.

Perfectly said! Why worry and play policemen to check up on someone? If someone cheats they only fool themselves, nobody else.

I've got better things to do in life than checking logs. Paranoia is not part of my character so NO I NEVER check my cache logs

[+Kabuthunk]

Every time I visit the cache actually. In fact, I also take pics with my digital camera of the log pages and post 'em on my geocache page (not on Groundspeak... but the one I also upkeep on my personal site).

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If folks want to log a find who have not actually visited the cache, I figure it is no skin off MY nose - and if they can fool themselves into believing that they have a 'find' more power to them for such a flexible reality.

No skin off your nose? I'm looking at your avitar and thinking, "Man, you don't even have a nose!" Of course, this is only funny until the next time you change your avitar.

[+OHMIKY]

No skin off your nose? I'm looking at your avitar and thinking, "Man, you don't even have a nose!" Of course, this is only funny until the next time you change your avitar.

 

<veer direction="off topic">

well, I may never change it since it is my trademark in another realm, but I have toyed with using this one:

 

</veer>

 

I happen to think that people who worry too much about what other people do should learn to lighten up

[+Renegade Knight]

Most of my caches are stolen. That leaves me with no logs to cross check. On the few that are not stolen, I don't cross check unless I suspect there is a problem.

 

In the past I have had to set straight a couple of cache owners who were deleting my sons logs. Once they knew he did find the cache but his name wasn't in the log book they were fine.

Edited December 29, 2006 by Renegade Knight

[+DSine]

I haven't checked yet, however I probably will soon. We just placed out first two a month or so ago and as they are both winter friendly I am sort of going by peoples posts as to the condition of the caches but I will check my caches soon for condition, leave swag and check signatures. I will check the signatures as we have some interesting things happen to local caches here in the area. In one an RCMP Officer left his business card and logged the find after construction workers in the area found the large cache and called the RCMP. The RCMP removed the cache, after investigating the cache decided to return it to its spot Also, another cache which is placed on a weather station, has a log in it saying, "I have you all beat, I work here. The watch tower man" I don't know what I will do if I have someone logging a find without actually finding the cache, hopefully I won't come up on that problem.

[+Ichabod]

I think people should play the game in a way that they enjoy and doesn't harm anyone else or break any laws.

Perfectly said! Why worry and play policemen to check up on someone? If someone cheats they only fool themselves, nobody else.

I've got better things to do in life than checking logs. Paranoia is not part of my character so NO I NEVER check my cache logs

 

In general, I agree with this sentiment, however, I hardly feel I'm being paranoid. This is the first time I have ever deleted a log, or even bothered to check the log in this way. One might argue that he found all the caches and just didn't sign the logs. Based on the logs, the account, emails from the account prior to the logs to other cachers, past issues with the same cacher, etc. etc. etc., I doubt he attempted finding even one cache. The actual 2nd to find for the series asked me what was up with the logs for this person, since he didn't see his signature on any of the log sheets.

 

I think there is a small measure of pride by local cachers for completing a series of puzzles that has taken time, effort, a gallon or two of gas, and in some cases lost sleep, not only to complete the puzzles, but to get out and make the finds. It seems to cheapen their effort by leaving such bogus logs alone.

 

If someone wants to delude themselves, well, this is a free country, but I don't feel like enabling them either.

[+Vanillahip]

If someone wants to delude themselves, well, this is a free country, but I don't feel like enabling them either.

 

Exactly! I will check MY caches and delete any cheaters who logged a find online but did not sign the logbook. In my way of thinking, why is there a logbook requirement if you can just fake one online and not have it deleted? Just to be fair, there are circumstances where I would not delete such a posting, but there would need to be some communication so I know whats going on. Just like Coyote Red said..I consider it my responsibility as a cache owner.

 

I also have no complaints about cache owners who do not do this as there are many valid reasons for it...dealing with wackos who might steal your cache, getting hate email, just not being worth your time, etc.. Cache owning can be played just as differently as cache finding and it's all good!

[+Brayden's Brigade]

I don't check the log against the cache page and delete anything. There are several legitimate reasons why someone may not have signed the log.

 

For example, just today, I took my sister and her son out and introduced them to geocaching. I bought my nephew a GPS for Christmas and made him an account. They had a blast and my sister was hooked. Tonight, she created her own account and logged the finds even though she signed her son's geocache name on the logs (he was too busy marveling at the swag).

 

I once wasn't able to sign a log because my pencil was broke and there wasn't a writing utensil in the cache. I pawned a pen off a clerk at an ice cream parlor a ways down the road so I wouldn't be in that predicament on the rest of the caches I had planned for that day.

 

If you are caching with a large group, it is easy to simply forget to sign in all the excitement.

Edited December 31, 2006 by Brayden's Brigade

[+pdxmarathonman]

I think people should play the game in a way that they enjoy and doesn't harm anyone else or break any laws.

Perfectly said! Why worry and play policemen to check up on someone? If someone cheats they only fool themselves, nobody else.

I've got better things to do in life than checking logs. Paranoia is not part of my character so NO I NEVER check my cache logs

 

In general, I agree with this sentiment, however, I hardly feel I'm being paranoid. This is the first time I have ever deleted a log, or even bothered to check the log in this way. One might argue that he found all the caches and just didn't sign the logs. Based on the logs, the account, emails from the account prior to the logs to other cachers, past issues with the same cacher, etc. etc. etc., I doubt he attempted finding even one cache. The actual 2nd to find for the series asked me what was up with the logs for this person, since he didn't see his signature on any of the log sheets.

 

I think there is a small measure of pride by local cachers for completing a series of puzzles that has taken time, effort, a gallon or two of gas, and in some cases lost sleep, not only to complete the puzzles, but to get out and make the finds. It seems to cheapen their effort by leaving such bogus logs alone.

 

If someone wants to delude themselves, well, this is a free country, but I don't feel like enabling them either.

These are the circumstances that justify monitoring the online logs. For a simple non-puzzle, non-multi cache I can't imagine giving a 2nd thought to whether a sock puppet cacher logged a cache. Oh wait, make that a 3-star or less, regular cache

Edited December 31, 2006 by pdxmarathonman

[+pdxmarathonman]

I don't check the log against the cache page and delete anything. There are several legitimate reasons why someone may not have signed the log.

 

For example, just today, I took my sister and her son out and introduced them to geocaching. I bought my nephew a GPS for Christmas and made him an account. They had a blast and my sister was hooked. Tonight, she created her own account and logged the finds even though she signed her son's geocache name on the logs (he was too busy marveling at the swag).

 

I once wasn't able to sign a log because my pencil was broke and there wasn't a writing utensil in the cache. I pawned a pen off a clerk at an ice cream parlor a ways down the road so I wouldn't be in that predicament on the rest of the caches I had planned for that day.

 

If you are caching with a large group, it is easy to simply forget to sign in all the excitement.

In all of these cases the concern can be mitigated with an online log that says something like: "Found with BB, forgot to sign since my son was having such a good time in the wonderful location that you placed this cache!"

rather than the "Found it" log on a 5-stage puzzle cache that a sock-puppet cacher might do.

[Mr.Yuck]

I do it, but not to be "The Geo-Police", to verify online finds. I have never suspected on my own caches, or known of any suspected fake finds to ever take place in my area. I look at the paper log pretty much to see how many finders never logged on the website. It's always amazed me how many people go out and find caches that never log their visit online at geocaching.com About a year ago, a new website feature made it so that you have to have an account, and be logged in to view cache coordinates. Before that, any Tom, Dick or Harry could have just surfed the listings and read cache coordinates. I figured this new feature would cut way down on the number of non-online logging geocachers. But in my experience, it hasn't one bit.

 

I'm basically talking about people with unfamiliar usernames, that aren't part of the local online geocaching community at large. Not the occasional long-time user who stops logging online for whatever personal reasons.

 

Oh, and for the record, if I ever did suspect a phony find, sure I'd be checking the paper log.

Edited December 31, 2006 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+Stonebreaker73]

Haven't done it yet. Hate having to check people's honesty. If someone complained I would check though.

[+ABXGuy]

no. I don't really see how it hurts me or anyone else if someone is cheating, so I dont see a need to start trouble. if they want to log my caches without finding them, hopefully my caches are good enough that it's their loss.

 

Ditto... who care how they play. I don't.

 

If you delete logs online if their name is not in the log book do you also do vice versa and scratch out names from the log book if they don't log them online.

 

If it's not about the numbers and not a competition then what's the big deal. Just my 2¢

Edited December 31, 2006 by ABXGuy

[+RockyRaab]

I questioned what I thought was a spurious set of finds once and got thoroughly hammered for it right here in this forum. Never again.

 

My enjoyment comes from finding good caches and placing better ones. But as far as policing who claims what, I say "Frankly, Scarlett..."

[+tozainamboku]

 

The neat thing is sometimes I find the visitors log a find in the cache who never log online, and those are neat logs to find.

I check my logs whenever I do maintenance on my caches. I always cross out the names of those that didn't log online. If you don't log online you didn't find the cache.

 

If you delete logs online if their name is not in the log book do you also do vice versa and scratch out names from the log book if they don't log them online.

Yes. See above.

Edited December 31, 2006 by tozainamboku

[Guyute1210]

I just took my online list and compared it to what was online. I found at least 2 that were supicious, and didn't see their sig in my log. One person only has ~4 finds, so i don't think they cache anymore, but the other one that looked really suspicious, the person has over 3000 finds. I believe they did at least a drive by of the cache site, but never got out of their car to get the cache and sign the log. I will be deleting them in the next few days. If your name is not in the log, it's not a find. It does not bother me to delete bogus finds.

[+ReadyOrNot]

no. I don't really see how it hurts me or anyone else if someone is cheating, so I dont see a need to start trouble. if they want to log my caches without finding them, hopefully my caches are good enough that it's their loss.

 

Ditto... who care how they play. I don't.

 

If you delete logs online if their name is not in the log book do you also do vice versa and scratch out names from the log book if they don't log them online.

 

If it's not about the numbers and not a competition then what's the big deal. Just my 2¢

 

I can't understand why so many people think that cheating is not "a big deal". That is certainly not what I teach my children and I'm quite certain you wouldn't teach your kids that it's okay to cheat. I spent 4 hours working on the puzzle that the OP created. As the OP mentioned in a previous post, it takes away from from the game when people cheat and it is a big deal.

 

Quite a few months back someone with a sock-puppet account logged some of the most difficult caches in the world, such as a cache on Everest and one at the South Pole... "Quick find, TFTH" (or something like that). I don't know about you, but if I actually took the time and the energy to find those caches, I'd be a bit put off by someone just willy nilly logging a find on the cache.

 

It may not matter that much in the big scheme of things, but it does matter. Just my $0.02

[+ironman114]

I just took my online list and compared it to what was online. I found at least 2 that were suspicious, and didn't see their sig in my log. One person only has ~4 finds, so i don't think they cache anymore, but the other one that looked really suspicious, the person has over 3000 finds. I believe they did at least a drive by of the cache site, but never got out of their car to get the cache and sign the log. I will be deleting them in the next few days. If your name is not in the log, it's not a find. It does not bother me to delete bogus finds.

 

I have one cache where I did not sign the log. I wrote in it but forgot my signature. So by your standards you would delete my log since my name isn't in the log book.

 

I won't be back there any time soon because it is a 4 hr drive there and there is way too much snow and the roads are closed for the winter. It wasn't till after I had logged online that I realised that I hadn't signed and until now have been working too much to to cache or do logs. It wasn't till I read this thread that I remembered it.

 

 

I was going to rant here about anal retentive people, but rather than bring myself down to the level of those I detest here, I think that it isn't worth all the trouble and will quit posting in the forums again and just play the game the way I want to.

[+ReadyOrNot]

I just took my online list and compared it to what was online. I found at least 2 that were suspicious, and didn't see their sig in my log. One person only has ~4 finds, so i don't think they cache anymore, but the other one that looked really suspicious, the person has over 3000 finds. I believe they did at least a drive by of the cache site, but never got out of their car to get the cache and sign the log. I will be deleting them in the next few days. If your name is not in the log, it's not a find. It does not bother me to delete bogus finds.

 

I have one cache where I did not sign the log. I wrote in it but forgot my signature. So by your standards you would delete my log since my name isn't in the log book.

 

I won't be back there any time soon because it is a 4 hr drive there and there is way too much snow and the roads are closed for the winter. It wasn't till after I had logged online that I realised that I hadn't signed and until now have been working too much to to cache or do logs. It wasn't till I read this thread that I remembered it.

 

 

I was going to rant here about anal retentive people, but rather than bring myself down to the level of those I detest here, I think that it isn't worth all the trouble and will quit posting in the forums again and just play the game the way I want to.

 

Detest is a stong word to use don't you think? Simple communication with the owner of the cache would resolve any problem you would have it the log was questioned. I've forgotten to sign my name on several occasions.

[+Lighteye]

no. I don't really see how it hurts me or anyone else if someone is cheating, so I dont see a need to start trouble. if they want to log my caches without finding them, hopefully my caches are good enough that it's their loss.

 

My thought is as follows: If I discover that you have logged them without finding them, don't be shocked when I delete your smilies out of a sense of fairness. Been there, done that.

 

The End. No further discussion needed, lest I commit a forumcide.

[jwillis]

Hello, it's a game. And I'm not the Cache Police or their mommy. I've never checked and I have no intention of ever doing so. Sure, there's always someone who won't play by the rules, but I'm not going to let them ruin the game for me. There could be a million honest reasons why they didn't sign the log. I know my name probably never made onto some logs mainly because the younger team members have the Power of the Pencil. I figure it all evens out out because I know I've forgotten to submit some finds for smilies and not to mention on vacation the cache notebook disappeared so most our finds were lost along with it and I don't expect owners to submit the find for me.

[+Harry Dolphin]

My thought is as follows: If I discover that you have logged them without finding them, don't be shocked when I delete your smilies out of a sense of fairness. Been there, done that.

 

I'll agree with the Lighteyes. It's called integrity. Or honesty. I'd like to think that we have some of that here. People who want to play a different game should do just: Go play a different game.

I have not done a lot of checking and comparing. The Second to Find on one of my evil mystery caches was, indeed, the second to find. (And congratulations!) The visitor from across the pond did, indeed, cross the big river! I don't generally check logs unless something looks suspicious. But I am willing to attempt to restore integrity when necessary.

[+ranger-rob]

I guess it depends on your definition of "checking". I enjoy reading the paper logs because sometimes they're more intertaining than the ones online and, occasionally, someone will make an entry but not log it online. I've never deleted any and only actually checked one time because of a comment left online. As a general rule, no, other than to just read what people have written. I could care less about the numbers. That's for someone else to worry and fret about.

 

 

Edit: spelling

Edited January 2, 2007 by ranger-rob