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Bring Back Virtuals To The Cities


outdoorsaddix

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I don't know about the rest of you, but I pay for a service, and I should have some sort of input to that service.

Really?

 

Do you really think because you buy gas at the corner station every week you get to tell the station owner how to run his business?

 

Do you tell the supermarket what food they have to carry?

 

Do you tell your accountant what size tax return you demand?

 

Yes, you have a way of providing input; if you don't like a product or service, dont use it.

That's the way a free-market economy works. If most people like my product/service I make a profit. If people dont I go bankrupt and out of business.

 

From all appearances Groundspeak is quite successful. Seems like they have a pretty good grasp of what the market (not just a small percentage of people) wants.

 

How bout this.

 

I get the newspaper every Sunday.

 

If I don't get it, I don't pay for it.

 

Yes I SHOULD have input if I pay for a service.

 

If you go to your local meetings and ask the cachers their thoughts on Waymarking, you may find you are the minority.

 

I don't like Waymarking so I don't use it, i can find a hamburger without a GPS.

Edited by TalesFromTheSurface
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And Groundspeak is more of an "accidental near-monopoly" like Microsoft. In a true free-market, someone out there with the time, means and will wouldcome out with an alternate site that included virtuals (and perhaps locationless), and people just go there. But you can look up all the threats and lawsuits that emerged from any major attempt to compete with Groundspeak even well before Waymarking. In this sense Groundspeak is successful for the same reasons that Microsoft is; they provided a niche want when no one else foresaw the growth, and was able to grow big enough in a short enough time to make it almost impossible for competitive entry. While that happens from time to time in a free-market, that is not a free-market.

/me scratches head, confused.

 

There seem to be plenty of other websites that offer virtual and locationless geocaching-like experiences. I can probably name at least 1/2 dozen currently active, and more that have gone by the wayside from lack of use. None that I know of are or were threatened with lawsuits. The fact that they freely exist yet you don't know about them seems to in fact prove my free-market point. Most people seem to be happy enough with Groundspeak's vision (and version) of geocaching that they don't care to go looking for alternatives.

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Tried Waymarking - wasn't thrilled. Might try it again, might not who knows. But I look at it like this. I buy a newspaper but don't read the society page. Doesn't mean the newspaper shouldn't put the time and effort into that portion because there are people who do like it. So I make a choice to not read the society page but to read the sports page that shows USC won yeterday and Clemson lost ;) (sorry local joke. love you upstate guys)

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[How bout this.

 

I get the newspaper every Sunday.

 

If I don't get it, I don't pay for it.

 

Yes I SHOULD have input if I pay for a service.

Yes, and you can write letters to the editor until you get carpel tunnel about how you want your NEWSpaper to also publish short stories in the sunday edition, and how if they don't you are going to stop subscribing. That doesn't mean they have to do it, or even respond to you. To carry the analogy further, in this case the paper responded by creating a fiction magazine and offering that for sale on the newstand along side their newspaper.

Edited by Mopar
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Ok Ok, maybe I was a little quick to jump on this thread.

 

I noticed one of the moderators went over and checked it out and is going to get involved, so I should at least field test it. Several moderators wouldn't jump on thread to defend geohall without making up their own mind...would they?

 

I loaded up the GPS with the closest Waymark and went exploring. I was surprised at what I found.

Of course I was a bit sarcastic at first however, after taking this short trip I think I have learned to field test these things first.

Thanks for the great experience.

 

My First Waymark!

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Tried Waymarking - wasn't thrilled. Might try it again, might not who knows. But I look at it like this. I buy a newspaper but don't read the society page. Doesn't mean the newspaper shouldn't put the time and effort into that portion because there are people who do like it. So I make a choice to not read the society page but to read the sports page that shows USC won yeterday and Clemson lost ;) (sorry local joke. love you upstate guys)

 

First, dang those Gamecocks!

 

Second, is this an argument for keeping Virtuals?

 

Because even if I don't want to read a paticular section of the paper, it's still there for those who do. It wasn't sold to another Newspaper...

Edited by TalesFromTheSurface
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[How bout this.

 

I get the newspaper every Sunday.

 

If I don't get it, I don't pay for it.

 

Yes I SHOULD have input if I pay for a service.

Yes, and you can write letters to the editor until you get carpel tunnel about how you want your NEWSpaper to also publish short stories in the sunday edition, and how if they don't you are going to stop subscribing. That doesn't mean they have to do it, or even respond to you. To carry the analogy further, in this case the paper responded by creating a fiction magazine and offering that for sale on the newstand along side their newspaper.

 

Mopar's right. Having worked for a large-city newspaper for about 20 years, I constantly heard people say they would cancel their subscriptions due to a certain columnist or editorial stance. I also recall how the editors and circulation department would laugh when subscription numbers remained steady or even rose during such periods. In the newspaper world, controversy sells, and the number of people who actually do cancel is a small percentage.

 

So, give as much input as you want, but don't expect TPTB to change their minds. It wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to end virtuals and begin waymarks. Jeremy mentioned it over a matter of months/years, requesting and encouraging forum input, and worked diligently on it. Did you miss those discussions? Again, the train has left the station, but it's not too late to get on board at the next stop.

 

Not all waymarks are great, neither are all caches, but I hope you choose selectively and enjoy more. I have hundreds of waymarks I'd like to visit and probably thousands of caches I hope to find.

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[How bout this.

 

I get the newspaper every Sunday.

 

If I don't get it, I don't pay for it.

 

Yes I SHOULD have input if I pay for a service.

Yes, and you can write letters to the editor until you get carpel tunnel about how you want your NEWSpaper to also publish short stories in the sunday edition, and how if they don't you are going to stop subscribing. That doesn't mean they have to do it, or even respond to you. To carry the analogy further, in this case the paper responded by creating a fiction magazine and offering that for sale on the newstand along side their newspaper.

 

Mopar's right. Having worked for a large-city newspaper for about 20 years, I constantly heard people say they would cancel their subscriptions due to a certain columnist or editorial stance. I also recall how the editors and circulation department would laugh when subscription numbers remained steady or even rose during such periods. In the newspaper world, controversy sells, and the number of people who actually do cancel is a small percentage.

 

again is this FOR keeping Virtuals? I am sure the paper didn't remove the column or change its stance. It was there if you wanted to read it.

 

How about the geoworld? If controversy sells, then maybe we are helping people discover the wonderful world of Waymarking!

 

I have been Waymarking and I am sold on it! ;)

Edited by TalesFromTheSurface
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[How bout this.

 

I get the newspaper every Sunday.

 

If I don't get it, I don't pay for it.

 

Yes I SHOULD have input if I pay for a service.

Yes, and you can write letters to the editor until you get carpel tunnel about how you want your NEWSpaper to also publish short stories in the sunday edition, and how if they don't you are going to stop subscribing. That doesn't mean they have to do it, or even respond to you. To carry the analogy further, in this case the paper responded by creating a fiction magazine and offering that for sale on the newstand along side their newspaper.

 

Mopar's right. Having worked for a large-city newspaper for about 20 years, I constantly heard people say they would cancel their subscriptions due to a certain columnist or editorial stance. I also recall how the editors and circulation department would laugh when subscription numbers remained steady or even rose during such periods. In the newspaper world, controversy sells, and the number of people who actually do cancel is a small percentage.

 

again is this FOR keeping Virtuals? I am sure the paper didn't remove the column or change its stance. It was there if you wanted to read it.

 

How about the geoworld? If controversy sells, then maybe we are helping people discover the wonderful world of Waymarking!

 

I have been Waymarking and I am sold on it! ;)

 

Well, you removed my next paragraph, eliminating the full context. In that case, you should have included a [snip] indicating such. Of course, I've often done the same.

 

Even so, it's true, controversy sells, but that's already attained here in the forums (as this thread illustrates) with Waymarking in place and virtuals gone unless grandfathered, so no need to bring them back.

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[snip]

Not all waymarks are great, neither are all caches, but I hope you choose selectively and enjoy more. I have hundreds of waymarks I'd like to visit and probably thousands of caches I hope to find.[/snip]

TFTS, I did notice you had tried Waymarking, that's why I replied in my earlier post that I hoped you would "enjoy more." Did you miss that part?

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I am so glad we have Waymarking to fill that void. ;)

 

I am going to try to do TWO in one day.

 

Maybe even start a new video series?

 

Yes, when waymarkers are creative, the quality of their listings can equal or surpass many virtuals of the past.

 

I've actually spent several hours completing just a few waymarks in order to meet the requirements and enjoy the experience. I somehow managed to ignore the fast-food ones that day.

 

Of course, you may need to coordinate the video with Groundspeak and the fast-food restaurants you visit for permission.

 

Note: Others' attempts at sarcasm are often ignored by this poster.

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Ok Ok, maybe I was a little quick to jump on this thread.

 

I noticed one of the moderators went over and checked it out and is going to get involved, so I should at least field test it. Several moderators wouldn't jump on thread to defend geohall without making up their own mind...would they?

 

I loaded up the GPS with the closest Waymark and went exploring. I was surprised at what I found.

Of course I was a bit sarcastic at first however, after taking this short trip I think I have learned to field test these things first.

Thanks for the great experience.

 

My First Waymark!

I love this post.

 

You jumped into a topic, but then decided to give Waymarking a shot. You were pleasantly surprised! You then came back here and told your story. Many thanks for giving it a shot and coming back to tell us what you thought.

 

I chuckle when people make comments like "I don't need a GPS to find a hamburger". It shows that that person has no clue what Waymarking is really about.

 

(Edited to add that I didn't realize that the poster was being sarcastic, but shows that he has no clue what Waymarking is really about either instead.)

Edited by mtn-man
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Yes, when waymarkers are creative, the quality of their listings can equal or surpass many virtuals of the past.

 

I've actually spent several hours completing just a few waymarks in order to meet the requirements and enjoy the experience. I somehow managed to ignore the fast-food ones that day.

 

I can understand this. I didn't quite finish my second attempt at a Waymark today. I got past the plastic pool of death balls, and made it up the the killer net ladder, but alas there were all these short people plugging up the tunnel of terror. I will have to try this one when I am prepared to battle my way to the double yellow rainbow. Its going to make a great video!

 

Of course, you may need to coordinate the video with Groundspeak and the fast-food restaurants you visit for permission.

 

I'll check with the managers and see if they gave permission to list their restaurants on Waymarking before I publish the film.

Do I need permission from the restaurants to publish the image that meet the requirements on Waymarking? Could be a problem huh?

 

I am not using Groundspeaks logo or name, I changed it just a wee bit. ;)

 

I also promise to start listing these "Quality Locations"

Edited by TalesFromTheSurface
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Yes, when waymarkers are creative, the quality of their listings can equal or surpass many virtuals of the past.

 

I've actually spent several hours completing just a few waymarks in order to meet the requirements and enjoy the experience. I somehow managed to ignore the fast-food ones that day.

 

I can understand this. I didn't quite finish my second attempt at a Waymark today. I got past the plastic pool of death balls, and made it up the the killer net ladder, but alas there were all these short people plugging up the tunnel of terror. I will have to try this one when I am prepared to battle my way to the double yellow rainbow. Its going to make a great video!

 

Of course, you may need to coordinate the video with Groundspeak and the fast-food restaurants you visit for permission.

 

I'll check with the managers and see if they gave permission to list their restaurants on Waymarking before I publish the film.

Do I need permission from the restaurants to publish the image that meet the requirements on Waymarking? Could be a problem huh?

 

I am not using Groundspeaks logo or name, I changed it just a wee bit. :D

 

I also promise to start listing these "Quality Locations"

 

Impressive video, so clever of you and just what I expected, though I was surprised you went to so much trouble to express your dislike for Waymarking.

 

As I also expected, it appears you might have missed the fine print at the bottom of my previous post concerning the use of sarcasm. I'm sorry that you feel the need to continue in this vein, though I admit to chuckling at your video and am happy for you that you find yourself so funny even in a thread where others may try to be constructive. I'm not saying sarcasm doesn't have its place...just that the Cheers forum may be a better fit for your freedom of expression. They may even hold an award ceremony for your video if you feed the pig. ;)

 

Trying to remain on topic and reduce the sarcasm level, please respect the moderators/TPTB and their decisions even when you disagree and fixate on waymarks as being uncreative or limited to fast-food spots. For me, a micro near a SC interstate exit would provide the same "adrenaline rush" that you expressed in your video. Guess I should try to avoid giving you any more ammunition.

 

(edited for typo and micro comparison)

Edited by Teach2Learn
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I have to take my Highway Micros down after the first of the year, there is a new maint. engineer over those counties. You know I really have grown to hate those things. At least there was something to find lol. With the micro gone it might make a good Waymark!

 

The Skinny: I did find some very good Waymarks put out by gpsblake and others.

 

I will, without the sarcastic hint in the post, take the advice of the Waymark supporters. I can play the Virtual game at Waymarking.com or I can go somewhere else.

 

The videos look like fun and I found what I need to satisfy my need for virtuals, so thanks.

 

I really didn't go out of my way to make the video. The whole trip took 15 minutes and the editing about 10.

 

Gone Filming!

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You are correct! Waymarking is the way to go.

 

I don't know what came over me... :anitongue:

 

You've obviously made up your mind. Waymarking is commercial and boring and offers none the challenges that reading a plaque on a virtual did. Yep it sure was more exciting when some told you to go to that statue by the courthouse and count how many plaques were on the monument. Ok. I'm sure you learned something. And you did have to meet a requirement to log it which may have meant trying to figure out which plaques you were suppose to count. I suspect that there are many more people who would be thrilled by a website where they could find the coordinates of historical monuments and not have to deal with having to mail in the answer to some trivial question. But you are a geocacher, and as fizzymagic has says, a virtual cache would provide a challenge of something to find at the site.

I really believe that you would have better success, if instead of asking TPTB to bring back virtuals to geocaching, that they fix Waymarking so that it supports the needs both of the waymarkers who just want to know where the statue is so they can visit it, and the geocacher who would like to have the challenge of finding something. In fact, a waymark can have logging requirements to claim a visit. The problem is that only a few categories enforce this on their waymarks and most are in the Waymarking games category. I have tried in the Waymarking forums to encourage the development of Waymarking categories that will provide the missing excitement that a geocacher would find in a good virtual cache. But there are a lot of waymarkers who believe that the point of Waymarking is just to visit a place. I say why can't we have both. If you want to just visit the historical site log a visit, but let those who are more interested in counting the number of squares in the sidewalk in front of some memorial claim a find for their effort.

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I have to take my Highway Micros down after the first of the year, there is a new maint. engineer over those counties.

 

Not until I find that micro on I-385 at Exit 22 by Fountain Inn. (joking of course) I searched a while for that sucker and never found it.

 

The Skinny: I did find some very good Waymarks put out by gpsblake and others.

 

Thanks. Waymarking is what you make of it. I could log 100 waymarks in Saluda if I went through all the categories. But I can pick and choose the ones I want. Speaking of Saluda, my poor little county seat doesn't have any geocaches. I'll have to rectify that when I get back from vacation next week.

 

--

 

And to those wanting the virtuals back. You always have the choice of doing a multi-cache by making the interesting area part of the cache leading to the final cache location.

Edited by gpsblake
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And Groundspeak is more of an "accidental near-monopoly" like Microsoft. In a true free-market, someone out there with the time, means and will wouldcome out with an alternate site that included virtuals (and perhaps locationless), and people just go there. But you can look up all the threats and lawsuits that emerged from any major attempt to compete with Groundspeak even well before Waymarking. In this sense Groundspeak is successful for the same reasons that Microsoft is; they provided a niche want when no one else foresaw the growth, and was able to grow big enough in a short enough time to make it almost impossible for competitive entry. While that happens from time to time in a free-market, that is not a free-market.

/me scratches head, confused.

 

There seem to be plenty of other websites that offer virtual and locationless geocaching-like experiences. I can probably name at least 1/2 dozen currently active, and more that have gone by the wayside from lack of use. None that I know of are or were threatened with lawsuits. The fact that they freely exist yet you don't know about them seems to in fact prove my free-market point. Most people seem to be happy enough with Groundspeak's vision (and version) of geocaching that they don't care to go looking for alternatives.

 

I think the comparison to Microsoft, and the "accidental near-monopoly" statement is dead on!!! Of course I'm strapping on my asbestos suit as I'm typing this :anitongue: Very well put, HaLiJuSaPa.

 

According to "The history of geocaching" by Scout (owner of gpsgames.org), both Navicache and Buxley's Maps have been threatened with lawsuits by the Frog. Scout's history of geocaching Disclaimer: This history page is very critical of geocaching.com

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White Urkel, thanks for the "validation". In terms of what Mopar said, yes, a lot of this is not recent; I think TPTB have become more sensitive to not "looking like Microsoft" now (I've only been a member since 9/05 so I can't validate this, but I've heard that in the days they were suing Navicache and Buxley a post like my earlier one would've been removed just to give an example).

 

Tozainboku, you have a great idea! I could accept the Waymarking split more if they fix it so that what geocachers like about virtuals is better served by it (and it can even keep what's there now for others; I don't mind ignoring the "fast food POI" category, etc. I even humored it by putting my own local McD's on there, but it's kind of a waste, only has 1 visit besides my own :anitongue:). I know you have a category that does kind of bring back the "surprise" and "WOW" factor, and it is much appreciated, even if it still needs to get popular to be more useful (i.e. I live in the NY Metro area and saw very few remotely near me to visit).

 

I think the major step that Jeremy, etc. could do is make it show in your cache count. Not necessarily a smiley, but just show as an icon like benchmarks are now (though I guarantee integrating it into the smiley/find count will grow Waymarking overnight, however I think part of the move to Waymarking was that too many people simply viewed many virtuals and most locationless as "free smileys" that overwhelmed the site; and with locationless this even made sense, I have never advocated bringing locationless back; although I loved them, this does make more sense in Waymarking than virtuals perhaps do and I can see how it slowed the site for all the other activities).

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White Urkel, thanks for the "validation". In terms of what Mopar said, yes, a lot of this is not recent; I think TPTB have become more sensitive to not "looking like Microsoft" now (I've only been a member since 9/05 so I can't validate this, but I've heard that in the days they were suing Navicache and Buxley a post like my earlier one would've been removed just to give an example).

 

I think Terracaching proves that at this point in time, and for the foreseeable future, there is never going to be any effort that is going to seriously compete with geocaching.com. AMD keeps making microprocessors, and is profitable, but will never have more than a single-digit market share, and I don't think TPTB at Intel are worried :anitongue:.

 

Speaking of which, since someone mentioned LC's, Terracaching has, as of the day I type this, 553 Locationless caches available. I'd say the more popular ones have 15-20 find logs apiece. Mildly successful, but I guess the point is they do exist out there on the web somewhere.

 

Tozainboku, you have a great idea! I could accept the Waymarking split more if they fix it so that what geocachers like about virtuals is better served by it (and it can even keep what's there now for others; I don't mind ignoring the "fast food POI" category, etc. I even humored it by putting my own local McD's on there, but it's kind of a waste, only has 1 visit besides my own :rolleyes:). I know you have a category that does kind of bring back the "surprise" and "WOW" factor, and it is much appreciated, even if it still needs to get popular to be more useful (i.e. I live in the NY Metro area and saw very few remotely near me to visit).

 

Mr. T brings up a very interesting point, about the the "finding something" aspect not being there on Waymarking, as opposed to the grandfathered virtual caches still available on this website. But I'll still never stop believeing it's mainly "all about the smiley" for people :anitongue:.

 

I think the major step that Jeremy, etc. could do is make it show in your cache count. Not necessarily a smiley, but just show as an icon like benchmarks are now (though I guarantee integrating it into the smiley/find count will grow Waymarking overnight, however I think part of the move to Waymarking was that too many people simply viewed many virtuals and most locationless as "free smileys" that overwhelmed the site; and with locationless this even made sense, I have never advocated bringing locationless back; although I loved them, this does make more sense in Waymarking than virtuals perhaps do and I can see how it slowed the site for all the other activities).

 

Man, you and me are really on the same sheet of music :rolleyes:. I think the single biggest thing TPTB could do to promote Waymarking is to have a link to Waymarking.com on the main page (just like they do for benchmarking, it could be right below it), and to have an icon in your stats for # of Waymarks found (again, just like they do for Benchmarking).

 

My impression of Waymarking? Probably 90% of the Waymarks in the world have been "placed" by 100 or so people, who each have hundreds (and in a couple of cases, over 1,000) of them "placed". With basically no one visiting them. Waymarking, at this point, is just a "placers" game, and the finders aren't coming.

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My single issue is information access!

 

When selected categories of Waymarks start showing up in PQs I will be a happy camper.

 

I have always wanted Geocaching.com to grow into a single-source provider of all geocaching info, and they continue to march in that direction. I hate having to keep up with multiple sites!

 

I had a category of Waypoints called Fishing Holes, where folks could register their favorite fishing spots around the world and anyone traveling could look to see where the good fishing was in the area. Zero WOW factor, zero Geocaching involved other than finding the coords, but wonderful information for those of us who keep a fishing rod in the trunk 'just in case'!

 

As to Groundspeak's 'monopoly', I say go for it! It's called Capitalism and a Free Market Economy - it's what makes America great! I don't care what any entreprenuer tells you, NO business owner wants competition!

 

Every business out there is trying to gain control of their market. The successful ones gain it, the rest limp along until eaten.

 

A capitalist-view reading of he various links to geocaching history really point out how an astute individual saw an opportunity and jumped on it, and put together a team that capitalized on the moment, becoming the only success story so far in this game! Anyone criticising entreprenuership like that is a born worker-bee!

 

I want Groundspeak to get filthy rich so they will continue to provide me all this great data and services for a pittance of cost.

 

Plus, look at what they are giving away with all these free memberships! Millions of dollars of data and service. I think that makes them my heroes and the outstanding contributor to this game!

 

Ed

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You know...I really can get on board with some of the Waymarks I have discovered in interesting categories that compare and are even better than some Virtuals that used to be listed on this site.

 

My beef, pun intended, is how they went for the fast food restaurants and I guess what I would consider a waste of dataspace. It gave WM a stigma that will be difficult to overcome. Before I get this response again, I know I can filter out those Waymarks. The point is that they are there, and that is why it becomes the center of attention for Waymarking non-supporters. "The Burger Hunters"

 

Now there is a discussion on WM about not including anymore FF Restaurants. Might be difficult to justify why you allowed McDonalds to be a Waymark and won't vote for Jack in the Box. Burger Wars, sounds like a good video idea.

 

I took a hard line oposition to the Waymarking discussion, but I actually see some value in it. When a topic like this comes up, you can count on several members of "Geohall" to step in and give the "Its all great in the Merry old land of OZ!" posts. If the new game was going to the bathroom in a flower pot, they would all agree it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. That being said, do you think any of them would admit that the 'Burger" waymarks are a little silly? maybe just a little? Anyhow, I wanted to convey the other end of the spectrum that would probably not be told.

 

I have received quite a few emails with video scripts and ideas for funny Waymarking, and for that I truly do say, Thanks! I don't have a cinematography career in mind, but thanks for the show of support, Now I can understand why it is not a good idea to post against geohall.

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...That being said, do you think any of them would admit that the 'Burger" waymarks are a little silly? maybe just a little? Anyhow, I wanted to convey the other end of the spectrum that would probably not be told...

 

The end of the spectrum that you're not telling is that people like different things! 'Likes' and 'enjoyments' are completely SUBJECTIVE things.

 

Someone created them because they like them. Some go there because they like to.

 

Quit trying to force your subjective view on our game! The categories are there because someone found value in them - if you don't, don't visit them, but quit yer whining please! :anitongue:

 

Ed

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I think Terracaching proves that at this point in time, and for the foreseeable future, there is never going to be any effort that is going to seriously compete with geocaching.com.
TC is never going to compete with GC. TC is a niche market. They are targeted towards those that prefer hiking caches. They started out with really hard caches that very few could do and now have caches that anybody in decent shape can do. On the other hand, GC has become the mainstay for the masses dominated by easy drive-by caches. Unlike TC, GC doesn't have virtuals, but when you think about it virtuals threatened the growth of Waymarking so they had to go. Waymarkers get angry when you bring up all the hamburger joint waymarks but why did they allow all these in the first place? I think if the best Waymarks ever got integrated into GC.com it could be a win-win for both sites. :anitongue:
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...I think if the best Waymarks ever got integrated into GC.com it could be a win-win for both sites. :anitongue:

 

Y'all still don't get it! There can be no "best Waymarks ever" since we all like different things!

 

God, I can't believe I am defending them, but Waymarks let folks list and find whatever they like!

 

Ed

If that were true then why do they have a system to have people vote for and approve worthy categories? If what you said were true then everything should be allowed because at least one person out there likes it. Anyhow, I think it is possible that a majority of people could like some waymarks. Those are the ones I was talking about. There are some waymarks that would be fun for "geocachers" to find without having to go to another website.... Edited by TrailGators
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... If that were true then why do they have a system to have people vote for and approve worthy categories?

 

That's not a problem of Waymarks, per se, that's a control issue Groundspeak and the Reviewer community have yet to work out!

 

That's why I dropped my Waymark category and haven't returned to the site - I have no desire to play games where the Reviewers decide what I can and can't find interest in. As long as they want to control categories it's of no interest to me... it is an extension of the control they tried to exert on virts called a WOW factor... didn't work then, won't work now, no matter what you try to call it!

 

So far Waymarking is pretty much a Reviewer game. Maybe one day it will be a Geocacher game.

 

Ed

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So far Waymarking is pretty much a Reviewer game. Maybe one day it will be a Geocacher game. Ed
At least you can hide lame waymarks/categories! :anitongue: Like I said before there are some waymarks everyone seems to enjoy that would be worth stopping to find "while" we are out geocaching. I still say that they should find a way to put those waymarks on GC.com. :anitongue:
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The first 25 Waymarks that appear near my home coords are anywhere from 2weeks to several months old and have 0 finders.

 

A Virtual Geocache placed in this radius would have had a visit in the first 24 hours.

 

It looks like the Waymarkers are trying to locate every twig and blade of grass possible, but few are actually finding them compared to the number claiming the location. It is a numbers game to them in regrads to claiming.

 

Why don't more Waymarkers start playing this game?

 

 

I think this describes the current situation very well. Waymarkers are much more interested in founding new waymarks than they are in visiting ones that are already listed.

 

I've been doing some Waymarking, posting new waymarks in a bunch of categories that interest me, but I don't go out of my way to visit waymarks in any of these categories. I'll log a visit if I have discovered a potential waymark and then find that it's already listed. Most of my visits are to my own waymarks since we are encouraged to log a visit to our own (something I've mostly quit doing unless I had something to say about my visit that didn't really fit the description).

 

It is about the numbers for a lot of people and until there is a highly visible count of visits to waymarks not your own, things will probably stay like they are until we have waymarked every fountain, historical marker, abstract statue etc. (I'm doing my part)

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The peer review and final Groundspeak approval of Waymarking categories is not meant to weed out "lame" categories - only those that really don't work. Most of the peer review is help the category managers tweak their categories to improve them a bit. A category description that is poorly written and unclear as to what would be a valid waymark in the category might be turned down. Something the is either too common or too rare may get suggestions on how to split or combined the category so it would work better. The peer reviewers are asked to apply the following guidelines when judging a category:

There are certain guidelines you should follow when reviewing this new category. Most importantly, we ask that you set aside your personal feelings for a moment and objectively reflect on this category's suitability for placement in the directory. Before we get started, however, remember that duplicate categories should be disqualified from the start.

 

Global - The directory has the potential for worldwide appeal, but only if the categories are not too restricted by region. Consider whether people from all over the world will be able to contribute to this category. We can afford to be somewhat flexible with the application of this guideline for truly outstanding categories.

 

Prevalence - How many potential waymarks exist throughout the world? Too few and the category may be of little or no interest to anyone. Too many and you may end up with a category full of mundane, everyday locations.

 

Standout - Does the category arouse your curiosity? Can you imagine yourself sifting through the gallery for interesting and entertaining images, or potentially visiting one of the waymarks in person? If not, this category might not be a good fit.

 

Redundant - Could this category be included as a variable in an existing category? For instance, let's say this new category is called "Blue Lighthouses". But, wait! There may already be a "Lighthouses category". Would it make more sense to add a variable for different colors in the "Lighthouses" details?

 

If you have suggestions for the category manager please include them in the provided comment field. Suggestions can range from spelling corrections to variable additions, or a simple "Way to go!"

The people who raise objections to Waymarking because there are some categories they don't like sound like those who refuse to use the internet because it has pornography. Waymarking categories exist because there is some group is interested enough in that category to want to manage it. For the most part categories will get approved.

 

One problem may be that people expect the "Wow" requirement of virtual caches to apply to waymarks. The "Wow" requirement did not work!!!! People would insist that a shoe hanging from a tree was "wow". People committed geocide in the forums because their great idea for a virtual was shot down. Now we have a Shoe Tree category in Waymarking. Geocachers can still find the grandfathered virtuals they think are "wow". Or they can learn how to use Waymarking to find the categories of place that they personally are interested in visiting and really increase the chance that they will be wowed.

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People would insist that a shoe hanging from a tree was "wow". People committed geocide in the forums because their great idea for a virtual was shot down. Now we have a Shoe Tree category in Waymarking. Geocachers can still find the grandfathered virtuals they think are "wow". Or they can learn how to use Waymarking to find the categories of place that they personally are interested in visiting and really increase the chance that they will be wowed.
I found a geocache under a shoe tree in Big Bear! :anibad:
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... If that were true then why do they have a system to have people vote for and approve worthy categories?

 

That's not a problem of Waymarks, per se, that's a control issue Groundspeak and the Reviewer community have yet to work out!

 

That's why I dropped my Waymark category and haven't returned to the site - I have no desire to play games where the Reviewers decide what I can and can't find interest in. As long as they want to control categories it's of no interest to me... it is an extension of the control they tried to exert on virts called a WOW factor... didn't work then, won't work now, no matter what you try to call it!

 

So far Waymarking is pretty much a Reviewer game. Maybe one day it will be a Geocacher game.

 

Ed

 

So you didn't like it because they didn't want to play your way? Quit Whining!

 

Pot meet kettle...

 

I am actually going to give it a try, kick the tires a little...

Edited by TalesFromTheSurface
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