Cache Blown Up Again

[+knoffer]

... I believe that most if not all these bomb scares could be alleviated by simply notifying the local Law enforcement agencies that you are placing a cache, where it is and what it is. ...

I think that you will see diminishing returns with this plan.

 

Also, it is similar to the issue of permission. Just because you tell one LEO about the cache, doesn't mean all the others will get the message and understand it. How many of your friends have you explained geocaching to and received a blank stare in return?

I can only speak from personnal experience and when I have done this it has been well received by the local Authorities.

A while back, a thread was started that discussed this very idea. In practice, it didn't work. As I recall, the cacher was told by the police that they didn't want to know where every single cache is. Further, I suspect that you live in an area which has much fewer cachers, caches, and LEOs than some of us. Could you imagine going to the police 2000 times to give them this information?

I can see your point. The amount of caches is certainly an issue. My local area within 10 miles probably has about 600-700 caches. Though within 25 miles this probably climbs to well over a 1200. I guess there really is no sure fire way to fix the issue at hand. I guess I just prefer to do this for piece of mind that it is known that it is there and that when I placed it was OK'd at that time.

Edited December 21, 2006 by knoffer

[+sbell111]

... I guess I just prefer to do this for piece of mind that it is known that it is there and that when I placed it was OK'd at that time.

This kind of reminds me of the thread a few weeks ago in which someone described their experience placing a cache on a college campus. They had asked permission from Security and were turned down. Naturally they were, since Security (and all LEOs) are in the practice of restricting behavior, not approving it.

Edited December 21, 2006 by sbell111

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

So if these poor Nigerians that need me to help get their father's lost fortune out of the country learn to write "This is not a fraud" in the title I will be more likely to read them?

[+knoffer]

... I guess I just prefer to do this for piece of mind that it is known that it is there and that when I placed it was OK'd at that time.

This kind of reminds me of the thread a few weeks ago in which someone described their experience placing a cache on a college campus. They had asked permission from Security and were turned down. Naturally they were, since Security (and all LEOs) are in the practice of restricting behavior, not approving it.

I know in my area there is several caches on College Campuses and new ones have been added. So far it hasn't been an Issue. Maybe the area I live in isn't as scared of the potential threats. Plus caching is seen as a postive aspect of the outdoors and promoted by the local News.

Fox 6 News Weather Man's caching page

[+sbell111]

... I guess I just prefer to do this for piece of mind that it is known that it is there and that when I placed it was OK'd at that time.

This kind of reminds me of the thread a few weeks ago in which someone described their experience placing a cache on a college campus. They had asked permission from Security and were turned down. Naturally they were, since Security (and all LEOs) are in the practice of restricting behavior, not approving it.

I know in my area there is several caches on College Campuses and new ones have been added. So far it hasn't been an Issue. Maybe the area I live in isn't as scared of the potential threats. Plus caching is seen as a postive aspect of the outdoors and promoted by the local News.

Fox 6 News Weather Man's caching page

That wasn't my point.

 

My point is that permission is obtained from the land manager, not the fuzz.

[+knoffer]

... I guess I just prefer to do this for piece of mind that it is known that it is there and that when I placed it was OK'd at that time.

This kind of reminds me of the thread a few weeks ago in which someone described their experience placing a cache on a college campus. They had asked permission from Security and were turned down. Naturally they were, since Security (and all LEOs) are in the practice of restricting behavior, not approving it.

I know in my area there is several caches on College Campuses and new ones have been added. So far it hasn't been an Issue. Maybe the area I live in isn't as scared of the potential threats. Plus caching is seen as a postive aspect of the outdoors and promoted by the local News.

Fox 6 News Weather Man's caching page

That wasn't my point.

 

My point is that permission is obtained from the land manager, not the fuzz.

This is true. The local land Manager is where you always start.

[+sbell111]

This is true. The local land Manager is where you always start.

While I disagree with it's effectiveness, I applaud your willingness to notify the police of new caches.

 

Certainly, they don't have the authority to approve or deny the placement of caches (other than those placed on Police property).

[+Berta Nick Zoey]

Whats wrong with a simple solution. When creating a cache, require that theres a place on the cache submission page for a description of the cache, beyond micro, small, med , large. It doesnt have to be so detailed as to be rediculous. But it could give the reviewer some sort of idea what its like and then if the reviewer has questions, maybe a pic of it could be required. We already have a systm in place that tries to make sure that caches arent placed near schools, govt agencies, etc. So, why not take it a small step further and have the reviewers scan the description for suspicion of container type. If 99% of the people say ammo box, tupperware, film canister, etc then the review process continues the way it has been. But if the description gets the reviewer to wonder about it. Then take a closer look at it.

[+sbell111]

Whats wrong with a simple solution. When creating a cache, require that theres a place on the cache submission page for a description of the cache, beyond micro, small, med , large. It doesnt have to be so detailed as to be rediculous. But it could give the reviewer some sort of idea what its like and then if the reviewer has questions, maybe a pic of it could be required. We already have a systm in place that tries to make sure that caches arent placed near schools, govt agencies, etc. So, why not take it a small step further and have the reviewers scan the description for suspicion of container type. If 99% of the people say ammo box, tupperware, film canister, etc then the review process continues the way it has been. But if the description gets the reviewer to wonder about it. Then take a closer look at it.

What's your end game?

 

What if I answer 'tupperware'? ammo can? PVC? fake rock? film can?

[Team CDCB]

While great in theory, in practice that wouldn't work I'm afraid.

 

If you have a cool idea for a cache and it gets turned down by the reviewer, what are you going to do the next time?

 

Cache description: Plastic box.

 

Instant approval.

[+Renegade Knight]

....Ummm, this cache didn't really violate any of those rules.

 

Some would say that it violated #2 (the first #2), but it looked no more like a bomb than any other item that we would hide. ...I guess we could all switch to hide-a-keys, fake rocks, and film cans...

 

Other than I can't count, only having all thumbs and no fingers when I type, this cache was probably just a garden variety cache except for that first #2 rule. When I read the article it didn't seem like anyone over-reacted except me in the forums.

 

Looks like we can hold off for a bit on hid a key containers and fake rocks.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I believe that most if not all these bomb scares could be alleviated by simply notifying the local Law enforcement agencies that you are placing a cache, where it is and what it is....

 

It may help, it helps more if they have active geocachers on staff. That said there was one incident where the cache was placed (with permission) and someone was seen messing around by the cache. The behavior (not the cache) was called in, the cache was found. The cacher came back by saw the commotion and said "hey, that's a cache I'll open it for you" They were not allowed to do so. The cache was destroyed, the sheriff in this case did rant and threaten the cache finder with charges even though the finder offered to solve the problem.

 

Alas I don't see how once the incident is started how it can be stopped. The bomb squad can't just trust somone off the street even if they do know things out of the risk they would cause some kind of harm. The property owner did know about the cache but was not available. The staff didn't know about the cache etc.

 

Even if the law had complete access to a handy databse of all the caches...they would still need to respond to reports of suspicious behavior and objects.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

... Alas I don't see how once the incident is started how it can be stopped. The bomb squad can't just trust somone off the street even if they do know things out of the risk they would cause some kind of harm...

 

From the 2004 Darwin Awards

"Curiosity may have killed this cat, but no amount of satisfaction can bring him back."

 

(25 May 2004, Indonesia) The city of Ambon was on edge. Just two days before, a bomb hidden in a cookie tin, disguised with two bottles of beer and some peanuts, had exploded and wounded five people. So police took extra precautions when a worried man alerted them to a suspicious black plastic bag that had been hung on the handle of his motorbike, while it was parked outside an open market.

 

The police cleared the area, moved the bag to the middle of the street, and waited for the bomb squad to arrive. Alarmingly, this bag also contained a cookie tin. The police set up a safety cordon 20 meters away from the bag, and warned people to stay back. But after 25 minutes spent waiting for the bomb squad, curiosity got the best of Willem, a 45-year-old fish vendor, and a number of other onlookers. They wanted to get a closer look, see what else was in the bag. What could happen?

 

What indeed. As they approached the bomb, it exploded, killing Willem and injuring 16 others...

[Clan Riffster]

Just thought I'd add some perspective as a law enforcement officer:

When Joe public calls in something suspicious, typically, the first person they speak with is a dispatcher. The dispatcher will gather as much data from the caller as possible, and will then assign the call to an officer. The officer, (constable/deputy/trooper/etc), tries to determine if additional units need to respond, such as EOD, (bomb squad). If the initial responder does not feel he/she is dealing with an improvised explosive device, they will most likely deal with the situation as they deem necessary. If they do believe they might be dealing with an IED, they will call for help. Once that happens, the cache is most likely gonna be toast. Why? Public safety? Not really, although that's a good catch phrase. EOD just likes blowing stuff up.

 

Any solution to reduce caches being blown up needs to take these factors into consideration. If educating LEO's is the best course of action, then it needs to be the street level LEO's getting the education. My department is comparatively small, (just over 400 sworn), and I've never seen anything "official" discussing caching. I'm thinking I might aughta change that.

 

Perhaps the best course of action would be to hide stuff so Joe public never sees it?

[+Tiki Treasure]

The bottom line is that the cache was placed along a road where there is NO foot traffic and nothing was around the cache to blow up (buildings, cars etc..) for miles. I've seen pipe bombs and this did not look like one. Ask any of the cachers that found it. I don't know if it was the Inmate work crew that freaked out or the CDF crew. The tree no longer has any place to have a cache so it's now archived.

[+Cpt.Blackbeard]

They archived the tree! Those animals!

Seriously, sorry you lost your cache. Hopefully the next time a cache is reported they will be better able to ID it.

[+Tiki Treasure]

I've lived in the area for 6+ years and I've never seen any kind of work crew cleaning the sides of the road. The one time they clean up they butcher the only tree around and knock my cache down. This road only has cars driving down it so it never would have been found by a muggle walking by. Out of all my caches this one is the only PVC one I had. Never again. If I were a muggle I would be more scared of a camoed out ammo can rather then a PVC pipe. Oh well.