Multi-caches

[Mattiepoo]

A colleague and i are considering building a decently long multi-cache that would involve finding several different spots to receive coordinates to the next area eventually leading to a regular cache with a combo lock seal ( the combination would be gathered along the way with the coordinates). I was just wondering how many steps would be to many?

[+ePeterso2]

For me, that would depend upon how interesting each of the prior stages was. I would gladly do a 20-stage multi if every point along the way was cool, interesting, or meaningful.

 

I placed a multi with 7 prelim stages (can be done in any order), where each stage/waypoint corresponds to an educational information plaque along a trail through a restored nature preserve. Information gathered from each plaque (and hopefully folks will learn something interesting about the area along the way) gets transformed into a set of coords of the final stage.

 

Personally, I think the test of "Why did you bring me here?" needs to have a good answer for every stage of a multi. A stage that exists only to give me one number in a series isn't as compelling as something that gives me a nice view or teaches me something about the area or challenges me with a fun puzzle to solve.

Edited December 20, 2006 by ePeterso2

[+briansnat]

I think 3-4 stages is optimum. 5 could be fine depending on the stages. Above that it goes from fun to tedious for me and my interest in doing the cache would lessen with every additional stage.

[+Woodlit]

I think 3-4 stages is optimum. 5 could be fine depending on the stages.

 

Anything more, I think would feel like it is a chore.

[Clan Riffster]

How many stage you create is ultimately up to you. The number of visits it receives will decrease as the number of stages increases. One of my multis involves finding 26 small metal tags. Each tag has a single letter of the alphabet, (A-Z), and a single digit number, (1-0). Find the 10 letters that spell CLAN RIFSTE and you get the coords to find the final. If you choose wisely, you'll only need to locate 10. If Lady Luck is not with you, you might end up hunting all 26.

[+*mouse*]

I find 4 stages about my limit and only then if the cache gets good ratings from others.

 

If you're planning more, you could always make each stage a normal traditional cache. People may be more keen if they can get more than one find - I know I would!

[+Isonzo Karst]

the test of "Why did you bring me here?" needs to have a good answer for every stage of a multi.

 

I owned a cache with 8 stages, that many because each stage was in a cool spot AND helped get you on the correct trail to complete a 12 mile loop. The stage needs to have a purpose - either the place is worth a stop, or as a specific navigational aid. I recently gave up on a cache along a trail with multi stages whose purpose (get the numbers off a power pole?) where utterly unclear to me, and absolutely tedious.

 

I believe 26 is the most stages I've done, and it was frankly tedious - that cache has only had 2 finders and is unlikely to ever have many. It would work just as well (better) with 4 or 5.

[+Juicepig]

Make it as many as you want, but anything over 5 stages and you should probably warn people in the cache description that this is an X-Stage multi. Also, make sure your stages are permanently affixed, as opposed to just loose film canisters

[Mr.Yuck]

I think 3-4 stages is optimum. 5 could be fine depending on the stages.

 

Anything more, I think would feel like it is a chore.

 

I'd agree, assuming you're talking about the same general area, in other words, the same park, all done on foot. Anything more, it just seems like the placer is making you aimlessly wander around. Clan Riffster's 26 stage multi, on the other hand, sounds pretty interesting

[+cimawr]

I think 3-4 stages is optimum. 5 could be fine depending on the stages. Above that it goes from fun to tedious for me and my interest in doing the cache would lessen with every additional stage.

 

What he said.

 

And I also agree with the poster who said that the *stages* should have intrinsic interest; I'd lose interest in, and probably abort, a multi which consisted of "lame micros".

[+ePeterso2]

I *really* dislike 2-stage multis whose first stage is a film can in a relatively uninteresting location with coords to the second stage in an interesting location. I mean, Gentle Cache Placer, why did you waste my time taking me to the pill bottle in the palm tree first when you could have just as easily sent me to the final?

 

And I also don't care for 2-stage multis whose first stage is far more interesting than the second. I mean, if stage one is a film can at a pretty memorial fountain and stage two is a lock-n-lock full of mildewed McToys in an unmanicured areca palm full of rats, then I would have been perfectly happy stopping after stage one, had I known about stage two.

 

I've got a plan in mind for a 10+ stage multi/puzzle cache in a relatively small area, solely as an endurance test, but also as an antithesis to the lamp skirt micro that seems all-too-common here. But even then, it will still have something important, unique, and reasonably interesting to do along the way (as opposed to just forcing you to walk back and forth across the park for no reason). I don't realistically expect it to get visited much, but hopefully folks who do will feel like they accomplished something worthwhile.

 

I strongly suspect that folks actively ignore multi and puzzle caches as a general rule, fearing them to be of the same ilk. Or folks just download a bunch of waypoints into their receivers but don't bring the cache pages with them, so they can't solve the multi or have no idea why there's no cache at the posted coords. I don't know if that's true or not, but it seems strange to see logs for a particular cacher all over one area but never at any of the puzzle/multis.

 

I guess that's not a bad thing ... makes it worth more to those who do accomplish them.

 

-eP

Edited December 20, 2006 by ePeterso2

[+TMAACA]

Four to five stages is generally my limit. I try to keep in mind that each stage of a multi (however cool the area) could effectively block that area from having a traditional cache, so I try to keep the stages grouped together fairly closely. Just my preference...

[+j_czerwin]

I find 4 stages about my limit and only then if the cache gets good ratings from others.

 

If you're planning more, you could always make each stage a normal traditional cache. People may be more keen if they can get more than one find - I know I would!

 

I agree -- another twist a person did in my area was to make other caches part of a multi -- but then make the multi disguised as a puzzle cache that you had to figure out that you were doing a multi requiring information from the other caches. Turns out there was a big number on the logs, and if you logged them all you's have the coords for the final. Booby Prize by DopeyDuck (GCT4ZM)

[+Renegade Knight]

I don't even like 2 stage multi caches. That said I'll do them but my interest drops rapidly the more stages the cache has to it. In spite of that with the right cache, the right challenge, the right 'something' that captures my interest and 99 steps would be just fine. The trick is to capture folks interest on a broader scale and that's hard.

[+lacey38655]

I have a 10 stage multi, in a great area, with twist and turns along the way, the cache ends in an area that has a great view. 25 minute walk in and 25 minute walk out (on level terrain). Then you have to find 9 micros in the woods right on the trail. I have had 2 people try and 1 find. It has been open maybe 5 months now. Be prepared, not all people are puzzle solvers, multi finders, or even long hike tradionals. I put mine out for the select few that want this type of cache. I enjoyed it and the person that found it, enjoyed it. If within 6 more months, the cache has not been found by more then the one person, I may archive it and put something else there.

[+Alan2]

I've done a bunch of theme multi's around covered bridges like this one.. The 5 intermediate locations have their coordinates given. You go to each one to gather clues for the actual coordinates for where the container is hidden in the woods.

 

I think the key is that each location is interesting, picturesque and not difficult to get too that makes these pretty popular.

[+The O'Hara Cache Crew]

My friends and I (the Crew) were going to attempt a 13 stage multi that would make you travel to the 4 corners of the city (Cleveland and surrounding suburbs, Elyria, Fairlawn, Twinsburg and Mentor) and each stage would be worth it's own smiley/find but in finding all 12 of the other caches the you would gather the coords for the 13th and a very decent FTF prize. Also, you would not have had to find all 13 to receive a "find" for each individual stage. But it never was completed. 2 of the 4 lost interest in caching not long after they started.

 

If it had worked... you would have traveled approximately 100 miles, in a giant U shape with Lake Erie at the top of the U. The best part was, that each of us lives in one of the corners, so it was feasible that we could have coordinated 3 good hides each (well 4 for myself) in interesting places, and been published all at the same time. unfortunately It's just too much for one person to travel to each corner multiple times to research and hide the caches. So maybe someday but probably not. Oh well, It would have been a good one.

[+TrailGators]

I have done three 16 stage multis. One of them took me 2.5 days to complete. They were all recommended and I really enjoyed doing all of them! I know most numbers people would cringe at only getting one smiley after all that effort, but I could care less. It's all about the adventure to me. However, I also know of some long tedious multis that I will never do. There is no adventure if you are bored....

[+SRD525]

When you hide a cache, wether it's a multi, a regular, a micro, or whatever, you should always consider the time and effort it takes for the cache seeker to complete the mission and at the very least, reward them with SOMETHING for THEIR efforts. Something in the way of a nice vista from the area of the hide, or a good hike in a beautiful natural unspoiled area, or a little know, or well know, tidbit of local/significant/arcane/quirky history, etc,,, but for crying out loud,, do something that will have me thinking that I was glad to have made a visit, and would recommend it to others. Otherwise, what have you really done for anyone,,,but yourself?

[nobby.nobbs]

as has been said make each stage worthwhile with something to do, see, experience and so on. but then consider whether you are filling an area that could have several caches with just the one multi.

 

on balance i'd go for the max 5 stages.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Not a huge fan of multis, but I have seen some that I liked.

 

One in North Alabama was very creative and challenging, seven stages with the stages written on the back of fake leaves in a tree, in a pine cone, another one required knowledge of football trivia, each stage is at a historical site around a small town - it was interesting and fun and most folks enjoy it.

 

OTOH there's a seven-stage multi in a ball park near here that takes you back and forth across the park - each stage takes you back to where you just left - pain in the fanny for some, others like it.

 

One local six-stage multi takes you on a nine-mile hike through a State Park, a nice hike if you are up for it - but it gets very few logs!

 

I would suggest doing them as a series instead of a multi, and really don't see why they shouldn't all be individual themed caches - that way cachers can do all or part of them as time and interest allows.

 

I have a five-stage multi, just because it struck me funny one day... Thunder Road; the first stage at a biker bar, the second at a horse track, then at a shooting range, a church and finally an ammo can in the woods. It's nothing special but it's never gotten a complaint, if that can be interpreted as a good thing!

 

And people who hide puzzle caches should end up stuck in Iraq.

[+OHMIKY]

<snip>

 

And people who hide puzzle caches should end up stuck in Iraq.

 

Hm - I have one puzzle cache out there that is a three-stage multi - and I am not feeling the slightest twinge of guilt

[+DocDiTTo]

I tend to put multis further down on my "to do" list than traditionals, simply because most of the time I don't have much caching time -- especially if I'm traveling outside of my home area. A 2 stage multi I'll often target just like a traditional, but anything more than that usually consumes more time than I can afford to dedicate to it. Near home, time isn't an issue and I'll tackle almost any multi you throw at me. (I think 8 stages is the most we have a round here, one I own and another one I've found)

 

My 8 stage multi doesn't get hit often, but it's contained in a park and most of the stages use pretty creative containers that you don't often see. There are a couple MKH's in the beginning just to help folks get started, but they get more challenging from there.

 

Because the cache is in a park and there are often people around, I provide coords to the next 2 stages at most of the locations, so if there are muggles at one stage cachers can go hunt another place. Helps avoid people having to leave and return later. Almost all of the feedback from finders has been positive, many folks said it was a challenge and they wished we'd have more caches like it in the area.

 

That said, I won't be hiding any more 8 stage multis... too much work to set up and maintain. One is plenty.

[surferacf1]

I have a seven stage offset multi that has gotten nothing but good reviews, largely because it's all downtown and in interesting locations.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...da-d58d81d63c69

[+kitkatt1960]

Please do not take offense to my next comment. It is my opinion. If you agree fine, if not ... sorry....

 

Multi caches (regardless of size, distance covered, or complexity) only appeal to a small percentage of cachers.

 

I had a 12 point multi which I placed in my home town. I told people that it covered a large area. I told people that it would probably take a fair amount of time. I told people that it would be complex. I told people that they might see things that they probably would not see on other caches. I told people that it was going to be a bit of a challenge. AND I told them that the final was a mini.....

 

I had about 10 finds in 5 months...... the first few that attempted it left rave reviews.... the second set was a bit less "agreeable" and the most recent to find it was down right vindictive that I would have the nerve to force him to spend his gas on this type of cache. At the end of his tirade, I archived the cache....PERMANENTLY.

 

You will NEVER please everyone.

 

Just keep in mind that the small percentage that LIKE multi caches.... will go to the ends of the earth if the cache is complex, challenging, and above all entertaining!

 

The size is not an issue with me. I just want something that is not just a simple "walk up". Give your cache some thought ..... Make it have meaning!

 

Please do not make it another cache that is placed "just because I can"!

 

-----

 

End of Tirade!

 

Fred

1/2 of Kitkatt1960

[+carleenp]

The best multi-caches I have found are those where the stages had a purpose. Then it doesn't matter to me if it is a few stages or many.

 

The worst multi-caches are those where there doesn't seem to be a purpose at all. For example one that seems like it has many stage for no other purpose than to create a mult-cache with a lot of stages. On the flip side, a two stage one where the first stage is nothing of interest and the final is a few hundred feet away also seems to serve no real purpose.

 

Have a purpose for the stages and people are more likely to write good things in thier logs.

 

One other thing: If it is rather long, make sure the cache page warns people of that so that they know what they are getting into and can plan for it.

[Mattiepoo]

First of all thanks for all your help. I've been giving this project some serious thought. Would a multi-cache where you had to do the multi's, in order, to gain numbers to the combination of a lock to access the final cache have any more appeal? I was thinking that this would make the multi-stages seem more worth while.

[+wesleykey]

I had about 10 finds in 5 months...... the first few that attempted it left rave reviews.... the second set was a bit less "agreeable" and the most recent to find it was down right vindictive that I would have the nerve to force him to spend his gas on this type of cache. At the end of his tirade, I archived the cache....PERMANENTLY.

 

You will NEVER please everyone.

 

 

I had two different 100 mile plus multi caches. The first was muggled by a local cacher who felt it did not meet his standards. The second was destroyed by those who posted SBAs and spoiler notes so that no one ever really logged it as I intended. My response was to archive them.

 

Back on topic, keep your multis shirt and easy, no more than 5 stages at most. State up front what is to come, such as three micros leading to a final ammo can, etc.

[+wesleykey]

I had about 10 finds in 5 months...... the first few that attempted it left rave reviews.... the second set was a bit less "agreeable" and the most recent to find it was down right vindictive that I would have the nerve to force him to spend his gas on this type of cache. At the end of his tirade, I archived the cache....PERMANENTLY.

 

You will NEVER please everyone.

 

 

I had two different 100 mile plus multi caches. The first was muggled by a local cacher who felt it did not meet his standards. The second was destroyed by those who posted SBAs and spoiler notes so that no one ever really logged it as I intended. My response was to archive them.

 

Back on topic, keep your multis shirt and easy, no more than 5 stages at most. State up front what is to come, such as three micros leading to a final ammo can, etc.

[+erny]

I have never placed a multi and I have only done one short one so i have read all these and I have learnt. Keep it interesting. Let people know what they are in for. and ask myself 'Would I want to do it?

[+niraD]

Around here, there's a 45-stage multi-cache (all micros). A lot of people choose it as a milestone cache. I'm sure a lot of other people just ignore it.

 

Definitely let everyone know up front what to expect. Those who aren't interested in it can find some other cache.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I *really* dislike 2-stage multis whose first stage is a film can in a relatively uninteresting location with coords to the second stage in an interesting location. I mean, Gentle Cache Placer, why did you waste my time taking me to the pill bottle in the palm tree first when you could have just as easily sent me to the final?

 

4-5 stages max.

 

I like the 2-stage idea when desiring to show folks what used to be called a virtual - a place where you can't put a cache at all or where you have to resort to a micro, then send them on to an ammo can final.

 

Ed

[+Teach2Learn]

I *really* dislike 2-stage multis whose first stage is a film can in a relatively uninteresting location with coords to the second stage in an interesting location. I mean, Gentle Cache Placer, why did you waste my time taking me to the pill bottle in the palm tree first when you could have just as easily sent me to the final?

 

4-5 stages max.

 

I like the 2-stage idea when desiring to show folks what used to be called a virtual - a place where you can't put a cache at all or where you have to resort to a micro, then send them on to an ammo can final.

 

Ed

 

Yes, yes, yes...I agree with AR on this one (and that isn't always the case ). This is a great way to utilize historical markers, urban sites, etc., where a container won't work at the first stage. Reviewers can advise you on how to create an offset multi in place of what used to be a virtual. Additionally, you can waymark it on the other site just for the first-stage spot if it's important to you.

[+ePeterso2]

I like the 2-stage idea when desiring to show folks what used to be called a virtual - a place where you can't put a cache at all or where you have to resort to a micro, then send them on to an ammo can final.

The first cache I ever placed is one of these ... stage 1 is a plaque, stage 2 is a decon box. And the plaque is located at the entrance to the area of the park in which it's hidden. This log entry sums it up:

 

Usually I hate multi-caches. I hate the idea of finding a half dozen caches and only getting credit for one. But I don't mind this kind. Not too far out of the way and just enough work to keep it interesting. Good multi if you ask me.

 

I'm drawing up a plan for an 11-stage multi in a nearby park that is designed as an endurance test to see who really wants to find it. It will be clearly marked and described as such (although since it will be a puzzle cache, that in itself will keep most casual cachers away). This thread has really helped me with the design ... both with ideas for things to include as well as to eliminate stages and mini-puzzles that would be excessively irritating.

 

-eP