What is a troll?

[+Team Christiansen]

I have seen a number of threads referring to trolls. What are they? From the context of some of the threads, the best I can figure is that it is somebody who has an unpopular agenda or rant and disguises himself by creating a new fake account to launch the same old rant.

 

Am I even close?

 

Some of the threads include an experienced poster making the discovery of a troll. How can you tell?

Edited December 14, 2006 by Team Christiansen

[+MattAlbertson]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forum_troll

 

I enjoyed learning that pictures like the following are called...Thread Bombs

Edited December 14, 2006 by MattAlbertson

[+briansnat]

You're close. A troll does not necessarily involve a fake (a.ka. sockpuppet) account though.

 

Here is a pretty good definition of troll.

 

Trolls are usually pretty obvious, though sometimes a newbie to a forum might appear to be a troll to the regulars. Often if its a real troll, he will make his one post then sit back and watch the "fun", rather than continue participating in the thread.

[+TrailGators]

Interesting! I also learned what a "snert" was.

[+Bad_CRC]

never heard of a snert before. it sounds made up.

[+KBI]

Someone states a controversial position intended to start a debate.

 

If you agree with his position, he's a hero.

 

If you disagree with his position, he's a troll.

[+Renegade Knight]

Someone states a controversial position intended to start a debate.

 

If you agree with his position, he's a hero.

 

If you disagree with his position, he's a troll.

 

I'd go a bit stronger on the debate. A troll is a let match signing onto a gasoline forum. An Athiest on a Christian forum telling them the are all slack jawed homophobic morons who are no more than sheep deluding themselves in faith in a passive god who naturaly doesn't exist. He would then produce a photo of a porn star devoid of clothing and say if you need to have faith this is something real and worthy that you can sink your teeth into. After that it's all fun and games for the troll.

 

A non troll may sign on that same site as an athiest and ask why they believe and debate evidence, science etc. to gain a better understanding.

 

The troll is in it for the frame fest. The other...may result in a flame fest but they were trying to learn. Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart.

[+New England n00b]

The original poster must be some kind of idiot for not knowing this. What a maroon! GO back to school you ub3r-LU53R!

 

\This post was for demonstration purposes only. Had this post been a real troll emergency... I'd be taking a few days off from the forums at least - by Admin Brick Action.

[+briansnat]

Someone states a controversial position intended to start a debate.

 

If you agree with his position, he's a hero.

 

If you disagree with his position, he's a troll.

 

I don't see trolling as simply bringing up a controversial subject. Someone who is earnestly bringing up a subject for debate isn't a troll. A troll is someone who brings up a controversial topic simply to enjoy the fireworks.

 

The original poster must be some kind of idiot for not knowing this. What a maroon! GO back to school you ub3r-LU53R!

 

\This post was for demonstration purposes only. Had this post been a real troll emergency... I'd be taking a few days off from the forums at least - by Admin Brick Action.

 

That's is more an example of flaming than trolling.

Edited December 14, 2006 by briansnat

[+mtn-man]

Someone states a controversial position intended to start a debate.

 

If you agree with his position, he's a hero.

 

If you disagree with his position, he's a troll.

I don't see trolling as simply bringing up a controversial subject. Someone who is earnestly bringing up a subject for debate isn't a troll. A troll is someone who brings up a controversial topic simply to enjoy the fireworks.

 

The original poster must be some kind of idiot for not knowing this. What a maroon! GO back to school you ub3r-LU53R!

 

\This post was for demonstration purposes only. Had this post been a real troll emergency... I'd be taking a few days off from the forums at least - by Admin Brick Action.

 

That's is more an example of flaming than trolling.

True and true.

 

(Chuckles at the Admin Brick reference.)

[+ThePropers]

Ditto all the above.

 

To see a bunch of trolls in action, and clarify exactly how they behave, visit any IMDB.com movie and look at the message boards. I'll use Star Wars as an example (although pretty much any movie will do). Look it up, then look through the message board. Some good examples of threads started by trolls are:

1. Star Wars (1977) fans are close minded:

   
   Star Wars (1977) fans are the most closed minded, bigoted, lop sided people I have ever seen, I was recently "hit numerous times" by a plastic light saber at a sci fi convention in Denmark because I said Star Wars (1977) was a horrible film.
   

2. Worst. Movie. Ever?

   
   Wow this is by far the worst movie ever. A monkey can fling crap at a camera for an hour and it still be better than this garbage. What a waste of my life. Full of gay music, special effects that look like they date back to the 1970s, and cheesy and stupid storyline. I dont know how people can stand watching this crap for more than 10 minutes. I fell asleep then woke up and turned it off cause it was sooo boring. I bet only nerds and losers like this crap. I mean the storyline is so stupid and doesnt make sence. And the special effects...wow how stupid do they look. Darth Vader is probably the worst part of this movie. He sounds like a robot with asthma...pathetic. THis movie is horrible...
   

3. Star Wars - Most overrated rubbish of all time

   
   Discuss.
   

Those are obviously topics started for the sole purpose of getting the masses riled up. However, people buy into it again and again.

Edited December 14, 2006 by ThePropers

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Someone states a controversial position intended to start a debate.

 

If you agree with his position, he's a hero.

 

If you disagree with his position, he's a troll.

 

I'd go a bit stronger on the debate. A troll is a let match signing onto a gasoline forum. An Athiest on a Christian forum telling them the are all slack jawed homophobic morons who are no more than sheep deluding themselves in faith in a passive god who naturaly doesn't exist. He would then produce a photo of a porn star devoid of clothing and say if you need to have faith this is something real and worthy that you can sink your teeth into. After that it's all fun and games for the troll.

 

A non troll may sign on that same site as an athiest and ask why they believe and debate evidence, science etc. to gain a better understanding.

 

The troll is in it for the frame fest. The other...may result in a flame fest but they were trying to learn. Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart.

Yes, I agree. In my experience, the most definitive thing about a troll is that they are trying to incite a riot; they seem to thrive on hostility and angst. And many may have a fanatical personal agenda beyond that as well. And yes, they may use sockpuppet accounts with which to accomplish their ends, but that is not necessary for a troll to be a troll.

[+sbell111]

never heard of a snert before. it sounds made up.

[+WyoBigFish]

Here you go, a photo of one in his native habitat:

 

[+KBI]

Someone states a controversial position intended to start a debate.

 

If you agree with his position, he's a hero.

 

If you disagree with his position, he's a troll.

I'd go a bit stronger on the debate.

I don't see trolling as simply bringing up a controversial subject. Someone who is earnestly bringing up a subject for debate isn't a troll. A troll is someone who brings up a controversial topic simply to enjoy the fireworks.

That may have been the original meaning, but ... having seen how the term is used around here, and having been called a troll a few times myself, my definition comes from direct experience. Were they right? Who can say -- it all apparently depends on how well the alleged 'troll's' statements line up with one's own point of view .

Edited December 14, 2006 by KBI

[+cimawr]

What I find interesting about the term "troll", as used in regards to someone who posts to a newgroup or forum for the purpose of getting a reaction out of people, is how few people realize the actual meaning of the word.

 

Most seem to think that it refers to the fairy-tale ugly creature who lives under bridges, when in fact it's a literal description of the POST, not the poster; trolling is a synonym for fishing, and someone who trolls a discussion group is fishing for a reaction.

 

troll1 /troʊl/ Pronunciation Key -

–verb (used with object)

to fish for or in with a moving line, working the line up or down with a rod, as in fishing for pike, or trailing the line behind a slow-moving boat; to move (the line or bait) in doing this; to fish by trolling; the act of trolling; a lure used in trolling for fish: the fishing line containing the lure and hook for use in trolling.

Edited December 14, 2006 by cimawr

[+KBI]

Most seem to think that it refers to the fairy-tale ugly creature who lives under bridges, when in fact it's a literal description of the POST, not the poster; trolling is a synonym for fishing, and someone who trolls a discussion group is fishing for a reaction.

 

troll1 /troʊl/ Pronunciation Key -

–verb (used with object)

to fish for or in with a moving line, working the line up or down with a rod, as in fishing for pike, or trailing the line behind a slow-moving boat; to move (the line or bait) in doing this; to fish by trolling; the act of trolling; a lure used in trolling for fish: the fishing line containing the lure and hook for use in trolling.

That has always been my assumption as well. 'Trolling for an argument' as in 'trolling for fish.'

 

Fits better with the 'baiting' metaphor, too.

 

I was about to say all that, but you beat me to it, cimawr.

[+sbell111]

What I find interesting about the term "troll", as used in regards to someone who posts to a newgroup or forum for the purpose of getting a reaction out of people, is how few people realize the actual meaning of the word.

 

Most seem to think that it refers to the fairy-tale ugly creature who lives under bridges, when in fact it's a literal description of the POST, not the poster; trolling is a synonym for fishing, and someone who trolls a discussion group is fishing for a reaction.

 

troll1 /troʊl/ Pronunciation Key -

–verb (used with object)

to fish for or in with a moving line, working the line up or down with a rod, as in fishing for pike, or trailing the line behind a slow-moving boat; to move (the line or bait) in doing this; to fish by trolling; the act of trolling; a lure used in trolling for fish: the fishing line containing the lure and hook for use in trolling.

We have to be a little wary of that definition. After all, there are only three kinds of threads. The first is started by someone honestly wanting to learn some information (How do I use GSAK?, What's the best GPSr for me?, What is a troll?). The second is started by someone who is really just trying to get affirmation of his opinion (Micros are lame, Ammo cans must be banned, logging your own cache, etc). The third type either attempts to leanr more about each of us as a way to build community (How did you serve?, Cache hounds, Jeep pics, I cleaned my car and this is what I found) or is just silliness.

 

If we use the given definition, everyone who starts the second type of thread, would be a troll.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

What Cimawr said. Great analogy!

 

The poster trolls his lure around looking for a bite.

 

Fish run in schools, much like forum posters.

 

Many very effective trolling lures look nothing like a fish's normal food - they are designed to excite and aggravate the fish into striking.

 

When a troll gets a bite it is usually from the younger and more excitable fish in the school, but occasionally a really big one will bite!

 

When a troller gets a hit he'll usually circle back and drag it through the school again.

 

Silver spoons are common baits for trolling, as so many fish can't resist 'Oooh, Shiny!' and take the bait.

 

The big bite, the fight and splash, are what the troller is after.

 

Ed

[+cimawr]

We have to be a little wary of that definition.

 

You can be as wary of it as you like, but the fact is that it IS the origin of the term "troll" - closely related to the term "trawl" - as used to refer to someone who deliberately makes posts to a discussion group for the sole purpose of baiting other people to react.

The original term was "trolling for suckers".

[+cimawr]

What Cimawr said. Great analogy!

 

Erm - it's not an analogy; it's the factual etymology of the term. Check any history of USENET, which is where the term originated in the 1980s.

Edited December 14, 2006 by cimawr

[+sbell111]

We have to be a little wary of that definition.

 

You can be as wary of it as you like, but the fact is that it IS the origin of the term "troll" - closely related to the term "trawl" - as used to refer to someone who deliberately makes posts to a discussion group for the sole purpose of baiting other people to react.

The original term was "trolling for suckers".

Settle down. No one is attacking you.

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

One thing I'll add to this discussion: sometimes folks are wrong about the troll designation. There's a recent thread where the OP was accused of being a troll, but I'm pretty sure they had a legitimate question.

 

I guess I agree with the hero/troll comment made earlier.

[+cimawr]

One thing I'll add to this discussion: sometimes folks are wrong about the troll designation.

 

I'd say people are *often* wrong about it in these forums. Asking a somewhat controversial question, a group regular needling someone for a reaction, getting mad and being insulting, putting down newbies, re-starting old and worn-out arguments about what's lame, etc., are often labeled "trolling", but that's not really what trolling is.

Honestly, I get the impression that a large percentage of the people who use the term in here have never experienced or read real trolling, and that quite a few confuse "flaming" with "trolling".

 

People who troll join and post to discussion groups ONLY for the purpose of entertaining themselves by getting people upset or starting fights. Normally, they don't have any real interest in the subject of the group, other than to think it makes the participants likely to entertain them. Occasionally, they're someone who actively dislikes what draws group members to the discussion; for example, someone who hates dogs posting to a dog discussion group because s/he gets enjoyment out of upsetting dog owners.

 

I really haven't seeh much of that on these forums, most likely because few people who aren't actually engaged in the geocaching game bother to read or post here. Lots of angst, arguments, snide comments, old-timers trying to put down newbies, etc., and occasional attempts at starting controversy for the heck of it or because someone has an axe to re-grind, but not a whole lot that I'd consider true trolling.

[+cimawr]

 

Settle down. No one is attacking you.

 

??? I'm not in the least upset, nor do I think or feel that anyone's attacking me. I'm having an academic discussion/debate WRT the etymology and definition of a word.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I had never been accused of trolling until I was involved in some controversy.

 

Then every post, it seemed like, was attacked as a troll. None were, I have never posted a troll, that's just not my nature, but certain folks wanted me gone from these forums and were quite vocal about it, so they went to great lengths to interpret my posts as inflamatory trolls.

 

It happens less often now, hasn't happened in months in fact, so the "You're trolling" accusation can be and is used to try to belittle and intimidate.

[+Kealia]

[+Team Christiansen]

Now, I know. Thanks for all the comments.

[+sbell111]

 

Settle down. No one is attacking you.

 

??? I'm not in the least upset, nor do I think or feel that anyone's attacking me. I'm having an academic discussion/debate WRT the etymology and definition of a word.

My mistake.

 

Going back to our previous comments, I was not questioning the etymology of the word. I was opining that the etymology did not really give you an accurate, practical definition, since using the etymology as a guide, about a third of the posts to this forum would be considered 'trolling'.

Edited December 14, 2006 by sbell111

[+Renegade Knight]

Now, I know. Thanks for all the comments.

 

Excellent! Alas, having read this thread, I now know less about troll and trolling than when I started.

[+Confucius' Cat]

I have seen a number of threads referring to trolls. What are they? From the context of some of the threads, the best I can figure is that it is somebody who has an unpopular agenda or rant and disguises himself by creating a new fake account to launch the same old rant.

 

Am I even close?

 

Some of the threads include an experienced poster making the discovery of a troll. How can you tell?

TROLL ALERT!

[+Confucius' Cat]

I have seen a number of threads referring to trolls. What are they? From the context of some of the threads, the best I can figure is that it is somebody who has an unpopular agenda or rant and disguises himself by creating a new fake account to launch the same old rant.

 

Am I even close?

 

Some of the threads include an experienced poster making the discovery of a troll. How can you tell?

TROLL ALERT!

Hey!

I put a smiley on it.

I AM NOT A TROLL!

[+Airmapper]