Why have the Premium Membership?

[Pemaquid2]

Hello Folks,

 

My wife and I are admittedly new geocachers at about 30 or so finds(most of which I have yet to log). We learned about Geocaching from freinds of ours in North Carolina this past spring. In June we moved to Buffalo, NY. We then purchased our own GPS reciever for our anniversary this summer and hit the ground running. We were hooked immediately.

 

In this area, I have noticed there seems to be a lot of the premium member only caches. The more expereinced cachers around here seem to save all their more interesting or preferred caches for members.

 

My question is what is the real purpose and benefits of having this premium membership?

 

One of the things I love about Geocaching is that once you invest in the receiver, the sport/hobby is free and literally open to everyone. I realize the membership is not (yet) real cost prohibative but why should it cost at all? I understand some folks may not be as respectfull as the caches as they should be. While I have not yet hid a cache, I can understand the effort and energy that goes into hiding it and maintaining it, and that is one reason to allow only the serious cachers to go seek it. However, I feel as if this is very elitist and goes against what this great sport/hobby is or should be about.

 

Please help me understand the positve reasons for such a membership status separation.

 

thanks,

Pemaquid2

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Hello Folks,

 

My wife and I are admittedly new geocachers at about 30 or so finds(most of which I have yet to log). We learned about Geocaching from freinds of ours in North Carolina this past spring. In June we moved to Buffalo, NY. We then purchased our own GPS reciever for our anniversary this summer and hit the ground running. We were hooked immediately.

 

In this area, I have noticed there seems to be a lot of the premium member only caches. The more expereinced cachers around here seem to save all their more interesting or preferred caches for members.

 

My question is what is the real purpose and benefits of having this premium membership?

 

One of the things I love about Geocaching is that once you invest in the receiver, the sport/hobby is free and literally open to everyone. I realize the membership is not (yet) real cost prohibative but why should it cost at all? I understand some folks may not be as respectfull as the caches as they should be. While I have not yet hid a cache, I can understand the effort and energy that goes into hiding it and maintaining it, and that is one reason to allow only the serious cachers to go seek it. However, I feel as if this is very elitist and goes against what this great sport/hobby is or should be about.

 

Please help me understand the positve reasons for such a membership status separation.

 

thanks,

Pemaquid2

Oh. You have some interestig assumptions. So, geocaching should be free for all? Who, then, will pay for the hosting and servers for the geocaching website, for all the programming, and all the administration?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Oh, crap! Troll alert! I think that I just fell for a post by a troll! Sorry about that, folks, it is my normal policy not to feed trolls, but I did not detect this one in time!

[WanderingGirl]

I don't have Premium Membership yet, although I am planning on getting it soon. The only major thing that I can think of is that it helps offset the costs of keeping Geocaching.com up and running. And the $3 is really cheap compared to other sites. I pay $6 a month for premium membership for another internet site.

[+MAG315]

Part of the money to maintain this website comes from paying members who care enough about the hobby to support it financially. It costs a lot of money to maintain a site like this and the additional services provided to paying members requires a dedicated server which also costs money. Yes, you can participate in this hobby without buying anything other than a GPSr and nobody will ever badger you to pay for the using this site. However, I do not appreciate being referred to as "elitist" because I choose to support Geocaching.com.

[+ByrnedFish]

in many cases the premium membership is just a way to make caching easier for people who go on trips, or are really into FTFs. It is much easier to plan a trip to anywhere with the use of pocket queries. you can get isntant notify emails if you are in to FTF hunts. it is a small price to pay, and it enhances the sport if you are really into it. Im from Rochester NY, and i knoly know of about 3 members only caches here. Just ignore them, as in my opinoin they are no different. they are often still filled with useless junk, and in some cases have an even less exciting veiw or interesting walk. THe premium membership helps to pay for the site, and helps to enhance hte sport for those willing to pay. its nothing that special, just a way to say THANKS to Groundspeak

[ParentsofSAM]

If you are a true lover of geocaching than a PM is worth it for 2 little words:

 

POCKET QUERIES!

 

Outside of that great benefit then you are supporting something that you and your wife find enjoyment in.

 

No one is paying for something that is supposed to be free, we donate to a hobby/sport we love to partake in.

[+BlueDeuce]

This page has a lot of information about what a membership offers.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/subscribe/

 

Do I have to pay to go Geocaching now?

 

Never! The traditional geocaching game will always be free. Subscriptions will be for new enhancements and new games added by Groundspeak. It takes development time and resources in order to make these ideas come to life, as well as hardware upgrades to keep up with the ever-increasing traffic.

[+Airmapper]

[+Renegade Knight]

Hello Folks,

 

My wife and I are admittedly new geocachers at about 30 or so finds(most of which I have yet to log). We learned about Geocaching from freinds of ours in North Carolina this past spring. In June we moved to Buffalo, NY. We then purchased our own GPS reciever for our anniversary this summer and hit the ground running. We were hooked immediately.

 

In this area, I have noticed there seems to be a lot of the premium member only caches. The more expereinced cachers around here seem to save all their more interesting or preferred caches for members.

 

My question is what is the real purpose and benefits of having this premium membership?...

 

The first thing you need to know is that what makes geocaching as we know it possible is the listing site where you can list caches and post find logs. It makes it simple and easy to hunt caches and list caches for people to hunt. The easier it's made for cachers the more it costs to build and maintain a website. The more the activity grows the more it costs to keep up.

 

That's regardless of the listing site. With no listing sites we would be listing our caches on newsgroups or making our own cache pages and it would be a lot harder to find caches and let people know we found them in general.

 

That all said this site keeps the basics free but charges for premium features that make life a a cacher easier and more enjoyable.

 

It's not a question if if we are going to pay, just who.

 

The debate over Premium members only caches is another thing and very controversial in and of itself.

[+gof1]

Welcome to the game Pemaquid2. I cache in the Buffalo area and am quite familiar with Cheektowaga. I drive through it every day on the way to work.

The local cachers generally fall into four categories when hiding a PMO (premium members only) cache.

1) They want to support the listing site so they give PMs (premium members) first crack at it.

Usually they will remove the restriction after a month or two.

2) They are of the mistaken impression that by making it a PMO cache it will be less likely to be muggled (stolen)

3) They want to keep the traffic to a cache low to prevent excessive wear or damage to the area of the cache.

I'm not convinced that this will do any good. There are a lot of PM cachers around here.

4) Just because they can. Go figure.

 

As for becoming a premium member, the biggest reason for me was to support the GC.com site. It isn't cheap to run and it is the engine that drives this train. All the perks are a bonus.

[Mr.Yuck]

Oh, crap! Troll alert! I think that I just fell for a post by a troll! Sorry about that, folks, it is my normal policy not to feed trolls, but I did not detect this one in time!

 

No you didn't!!! I'm local to this cacher, and understand they are smack in the middle of one of the highest concentrations of MOC's in the world. Check out their zip code of 14225 if you don't believe me. I can almost see this being a turn off to a brand new cacher wanting to check this strange hobby out. They know nothing of course about the other great benefits like PQ's, instant notifications, bookmark lists, unlimited watch lists, etc...

 

[EDIT] Oh apparently I was posting this about the same time as another local. Go figure

Edited December 14, 2006 by TheWhiteUrkel

[bogleman]

I'll play - I've been a PM since 11/06

 

I have been a member since 11/04 and I had an epiphany last month and decided I would part with 30 precious dollars.

 

I have always thought of this “thing” as just another passing fancy. I told myself that if I was still into this “thing” in a year that I would become a PM – well that came and went. I had this vision of being the most active NPM so I pushed on.

 

I have had some personal issues so to say and have always been hesitant to give when I can get it for well free.

 

Nobody has ever questioned my membership; nobody ever asked me why, does anyone care – well I did.

 

My $30 is so everyone can have fun including the NPM's

[+Bad_CRC]

There's only one member's only cache within 50 miles of me, and it's certainly not the best cache in the area. I think they are silly, but they are easy enough to skip if you don't want to pay for a membership.

 

I got a premium membership because once I decided to try paperless caching it was required.

 

 

The answer, as everyone has said, is that it costs money to pay for the site of course, those who pay the bills should get something extra for that, don't you agree?

 

For me, less than the price of renting one DVD for a whole month's worth of adventure and entertainment is a heckuva good bargain, and I'm a frugal sonofabagel.

[+El Diablo]

Personally I just want to make Jeremy and Bryan rich! Seriously though...this is a business site with expenses to be paid. I'm proud to support such a great sport/game/hobby.

 

El Diablo

[+Confucius' Cat]

 

In this area, I have noticed there seems to be a lot of the premium member only caches. The more expereinced cachers around here seem to save all their more interesting or preferred caches for members.

 

My question is what is the real purpose and benefits of having this premium membership?

There are also no doubt a LOT of NOT members only caches.

 

It is really quite simple. For FREE you get a lot. If you pay you get MORE.

 

It is kinda like asking McDonalds why their regular hamburger is 79 cents and a Big Mac is 2.29. It is your choice, as simple as that. The .79 is adequate but the 2.29 is offered for those who want a little more.

 

It is GC's stated policy that there will never be a charge for the use of the site. The extra features of the premium membership are offered as an extra for those who want more than just the standard features and as an incentive for users to pay for the enormous costs of maintaining the site.

 

I went for 2 years before I ponied up because I figured, much like you expressed in the OP, that it was cool to be able to use the GPS for free once purchased. But since I have become a premium member, I have not regretted it at all. As others have said, the Pocket Queries alone make the membership worth the money.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to say "Thank You" to all those premium members who supported MY GAME for those first 2 years.

 

While you are thinking about getting the PM, be sure to thank those who are paying for YOUR "trial period".

[+Jae71]

The really cool thing is that you don't have to have a PM. Sure, it is easier with it, but if $3 is that hard to part with, then don't.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Jae71

[+ChileHead]

You mean I didn't have to pay all these years! Doh!

[+gof1]

Oh, crap! Troll alert! I think that I just fell for a post by a troll! Sorry about that, folks, it is my normal policy not to feed trolls, but I did not detect this one in time!

 

No you didn't!!! I'm local to this cacher, and understand they are smack in the middle of one of the highest concentrations of MOC's in the world. Check out their zip code of 14225 if you don't believe me. I can almost see this being a turn off to a brand new cacher wanting to check this strange hobby out. They know nothing of course about the other great benefits like PQ's, instant notifications, bookmark lists, unlimited watch lists, etc...

 

[EDIT] Oh apparently I was posting this about the same time as another local. Go figure

 

Howdy Urk, hows things?

As long as we are discussing PMO caches why don't you tell us why you made a couple of yours PMO?

I did it with the Mystery In Clarence series for reason #1, and the restriction has been lifted.

I had fun watching all the little cachers who kept looking at them.

[+nekom]

The negligible cost of a premium membership is worth the additional features to me.

[Mr.Yuck]

Oh, crap! Troll alert! I think that I just fell for a post by a troll! Sorry about that, folks, it is my normal policy not to feed trolls, but I did not detect this one in time!

 

No you didn't!!! I'm local to this cacher, and understand they are smack in the middle of one of the highest concentrations of MOC's in the world. Check out their zip code of 14225 if you don't believe me. I can almost see this being a turn off to a brand new cacher wanting to check this strange hobby out. They know nothing of course about the other great benefits like PQ's, instant notifications, bookmark lists, unlimited watch lists, etc...

 

[EDIT] Oh apparently I was posting this about the same time as another local. Go figure

 

Howdy Urk, hows things?

As long as we are discussing PMO caches why don't you tell us why you made a couple of yours PMO?

I did it with the Mystery In Clarence series for reason #1, and the restriction has been lifted.

I had fun watching all the little cachers who kept looking at them.

 

Reason #3 basically. It looks like I had 2 of 26, and a third where the restriction was removed later. I will now make it 1 of 26, after I finish typing this.

 

This just came up last week in the website forum, and the handful of states that were quoted came in at under 2% MOC's. Ohio, one of the highest cache density states in the union, came in at under 1%, I believe. The OP, assuming zip code 14225, is looking at 20% (1 out of 5 caches) for the first 200 caches, only 5.6 miles out from the home coords. I have to assume a brand new 13 cache series will have the restriction lifted some day.

 

I'm no world traveler, but I do see many caches made MOC's initially to give premium members first crack, where the restriction is lifted relatively quickly. There are also high concentrations in some areas in an attempt to combat cache piracy. Utica/Rome N.Y., and The Delaware Water Gap area of Pa./NJ come to mind, but I haven't checked them out lately.

 

Me? I became a premium member about 8 months after joining. My intention was to give back to the website, and the hobby I enjoy so much, and obviously was an addicted fanatic by that point. Of course I later found out that PQ's alone are worth the $3/month . As far as the OP, I say again, I think it would be a turn-off to see 20% of the caches 5 miles from home needing to be paid for, before I fully investigate this geocaching thing.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Oh, crap! Troll alert! I think that I just fell for a post by a troll! Sorry about that, folks, it is my normal policy not to feed trolls, but I did not detect this one in time!

 

No you didn't!!! I'm local to this cacher, and understand they are smack in the middle of one of the highest concentrations of MOC's in the world. Check out their zip code of 14225 if you don't believe me. I can almost see this being a turn off to a brand new cacher wanting to check this strange hobby out. They know nothing of course about the other great benefits like PQ's, instant notifications, bookmark lists, unlimited watch lists, etc...

 

[EDIT] Oh apparently I was posting this about the same time as another local. Go figure

 

Howdy Urk, hows things?

As long as we are discussing PMO caches why don't you tell us why you made a couple of yours PMO?

I did it with the Mystery In Clarence series for reason #1, and the restriction has been lifted.

I had fun watching all the little cachers who kept looking at them.

 

Reason #3 basically. It looks like I had 2 of 26, and a third where the restriction was removed later. I will now make it 1 of 26, after I finish typing this.

 

This just came up last week in the website forum, and the handful of states that were quoted came in at under 2% MOC's. Ohio, one of the highest cache density states in the union, came in at under 1%, I believe. The OP, assuming zip code 14225, is looking at 20% (1 out of 5 caches) for the first 200 caches, only 5.6 miles out from the home coords. I have to assume a brand new 13 cache series will have the restriction lifted some day.

 

I'm no world traveler, but I do see many caches made MOC's initially to give premium members first crack, where the restriction is lifted relatively quickly. There are also high concentrations in some areas in an attempt to combat cache piracy. Utica/Rome N.Y., and The Delaware Water Gap area of Pa./NJ come to mind, but I haven't checked them out lately.

 

Me? I became a premium member about 8 months after joining. My intention was to give back to the website, and the hobby I enjoy so much, and obviously was an addicted fanatic by that point. Of course I later found out that PQ's alone are worth the $3/month . As far as the OP, I say again, I think it would be a turn-off to see 20% of the caches 5 miles from home needing to be paid for, before I fully investigate this geocaching thing.

 

Interestingly enough, the vast New York City area (which some would think might have the greatest cache piracy potential of any area in the world) has very very few premium only caches. In fact, until recently, the only ones I knew of within 50 miles of us were a bunch in Long Island hidden by Squealy, but there appear to be a few more now; including one by Perfect Tommy that related to last summers Westchester County tornado that he appears to have "un-premiumed" after a few days.

 

Is the Cheektowaga "glut of premium caches" recent? My sister lived in Cheektowaga until last month (when she moved to Williamsville) and when I visited her last August I looked up local caches and there seemed to be plenty for us "non-premium" members (didn't end up going for any because was busy with other things).

 

PS Moving from North Carolina to Buffalo? My sister tells me the other way around is much, much, much more common......

Edited December 14, 2006 by HaLiJuSaPa

[+Confucius' Cat]

In the past couple of caches i have submitted, I have accidently checked the premium only box and discovered my mistake before it was published. I wonder how often this happens to others or am I the only one? Perhaps this could explain some of the unusually high MOC densities observed.

 

No matter though, there are still PLENTY of freebies out there for a newbie to get a taste before spending the big money.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I never really needed the premium features, and I still haven't made good use of them, but I like to pay the fee as a way of saying "thank you," not just to the web site and associated powers but also to everyone who has helped to make this possible. There's nothing elitist about Premium caches, though I used to think so, myself.

[+welch]

My question is what is the real purpose and benefits of having this premium membership?

You might try posing this question to your local cachers (the ones making the MOCs your seeing). Remember that its a touchy subject so try to ask in a nice non judgemental way...

 

If you can figure out why some of them set up their caches the way they do maybe it will help you understand them. Or maybe you'll decide they're elitist jerks that you don't want to be involved with.

Either way you'll get some reasons.

[+TrailGators]

Most caches are free. People that do it for free have nothing to complain about. If you find that it is a PITA to load caches the hard but free way into your GPS, then you can pay a meager 8 cents a day to be able to download a Pocket Query with 500 caches. I can download a PQ and load my GPS with 500 caches in a matter of minutes! So if your own time is worth less than 8 cents a day then keep doing it the hard way for free!

Edited December 14, 2006 by TrailGators

[Mr.Yuck]

My question is what is the real purpose and benefits of having this premium membership?

You might try posing this question to your local cachers (the ones making the MOCs your seeing). Remember that its a touchy subject so try to ask in a nice non judgemental way...

 

If you can figure out why some of them set up their caches the way they do maybe it will help you understand them. Or maybe you'll decide they're elitist jerks that you don't want to be involved with.

Either way you'll get some reasons.

 

Naw, no elitists. I suspect (I could be wrong) it's reason #4, as outlined by Gof1. I could be wrong though . I'll bet a local discussion takes place, if it isn't already (I haven't looked).

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I started caching in, I think, August of '03 and bought my subscription the next day, mainly in hopes that that Groundspeak would grow to be a one-stop source of all the geocaching info I might need (and except for CacheMate and GSAK they have!).

 

PQ's rock, Caches Along A Route is fantastic, and MOCs let me reward other members with nice FTF prizes, after which I open them to everyone.

 

When I signed up I had just retired after 28 years of owning an IT conultancy with a staff of 10 and can guess approximately what their operating costs must be.

 

We must pay if we want this site to thrive.

 

Alabama has water everywhere, you can literally dig a well in most of the state by hand, but I like what my water department does for me, so their service is worth paying for even though I don't have to!

 

Same thing to me.

 

Ed

[+Mudfrog]

I read an article about geocaching back in March of 02. Found my first cache 2 days later on the 27th of that same month. Figured i was hooked then and it was just a few days afterwards that i paid for the annual membership. Sure didn't do it for any extra benefits though as there weren't many back then. I figured i was using a website for my personal enjoyment so me helping out with the measly $30 membership was well worth it. Besides, it just seemed like the right thing to do!

[+DSine]

I admit I don't have a PM yet. I am waiting until Christmas as hubby gets upset when I buy things this close to Christmas, for myself and as I am the caching hound in my house the membership would be more suited for me than him Anyway, I think the membership is well worth the money to support a sport that my family enjoys doing together. We are looking at getting a Palm Pilot this weekend so we can go paperless, also I love the idea of being able to cache on a route. I see geocaching like this: We can continue to have a great time without the PM, the caches are out there and we can plan out our weekends and go caching and have fun. We can also upgrade to the PM and be able to use, and support, some of the functions that people have put a lot of effort into making this sport easier and more fun for the rest of us. I don't understand the whole paperless and Cachemate , etc but I plan on learning quickly and then we can just get up and go instead of taking an hour or more to plan where we are heading and what we will see. As we live in Nova Scotia we don't get much daylight hours right now every minute counts

Just my 2 cents worth.

[+res2100]

There is an excellent article written by The Blue Quasar entitled "Groundspeak Premium Membership: Why Should I Upgrade?" in the current issue (Autumn 2006) of the OGA Newsletter. Perhaps that will inspire you to upgrade to a Premium Membership, as there are definitely lots of benefits. You can find the current (and past) newsletters on the newsletter page here:

http://www.ontgeocaching.com/oga-newsletter.htm

 

Or for a direct link (1.2megs, Adobe format) to the newsletter:

http://www.ontgeocaching.com/pdfs/OGA_News_V03_N03.pdf

[+sbell111]

... My question is what is the real purpose and benefits of having this premium membership? ...

The purpose of premium memberships is so the company can have the income stream.

 

When premium memberships were first announced, there was some concern that the site would become pal-to-play. Jeremy assured us that that would not happen. Instead, TPTB have added several new features such as pocket queries, 'caches on a route', and member-only caches that are available to PMs.

 

Most member only caches are no more special than regular caches, so I would recommend that you ignore them until you decide whether you want to become a PM. Take a look at the other features to determine whether it is worth it to you to pay for a membership.

 

Enjoy Buffalo. I'll be there this weekend to tailgate and go to the game. It's going to be a fun time. I'm hoping that Lee Evans will be able to pass us some good tickets. If not, my brother and I haveback-up tickets in section 310. Too bad the weather isn't playing along. We could use some flurries on Sunday.

[+media601]

...I feel as if this is very elitist and goes against what this great sport/hobby is or should be about.

 

I always have to laugh when someone refers to $3.00/mo as "elitist".

[+Kit Fox]

... My question is what is the real purpose and benefits of having this premium membership? ...

The purpose of premium memberships is so the company can have the income stream.

 

When premium memberships were first announced, there was some concern that the site would become pal-to-play. Jeremy assured us that that would not happen. Instead, TPTB have added several new features such as pocket queries, 'caches on a route', and member-only caches that are available to PMs.

 

Most member only caches are no more special than regular caches, so I would recommend that you ignore

 

I become a premium member within one week of signing up.

 

I remember when the premium membership gave you "zoomable maps" and Pocket Queries, and piece of mind for supporting this site. There were no bookmarks, no upgrades on the cache pages like "find all nearby caches, that I haven't found. You had to remember your home coordinates, because that option wasn't available to check for pocket queries.

 

I also remember the servers crashing every weekend, and having to wait until Monday or Tuesday to log my weekend finds.

[Clan Riffster]

As several cachers of note have already mentioned, becoming a PM is a matter of choice. Google Earth, EasyGPS, Cachemate & GSAK offer free use, and provide benefits to those willing to pony up a few bucks. Geocaching is no different. If you want the offered additional benefits, pay for them. If you don't want them, then don't pay for them. There is nothing "elitist" about your practicing free will, nor is it "elitist" for a company to charge others for a service you aren't required to pay for.

 

I had a series that required limiting the number of visits, so I made it a MOC series. I've since changed it to a regular.

[+emurock]

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

Personally in terms of the features, I think if you average more than about 1-2 caches/week, you should become a PM, below that it's very optional.

[+budd-rdc]

I'm surprised no one compares Geocaching.com to PBS (Public Television). They both rely on membership subscription and corporate sponsors to provide content. Well, PBS is non-profit so people make tax-deductible donations...

 

I was non-PM for just over 4 months, and happily ignored MOC's. I became a Premium Member for the features I get in return, and I'm very happy with them. So I say why not. Others in the thread have already covered the many reasons why Premium Membership is a good thing.

[+PeterNoG]

I checked out 14225. Only 153 MOC caches out of 6146. Lots to choose from before you become a PM.

[+ICHTHYS]

Geocaching IS open to all. You are welcome to place and hide and find all the caches you want without any interference from Groundspeak.

 

Groundspeak, on the other hand, offers a SERVICE to the geocaching community by providing a place to list caches and post and log your finds ONLINE. And this costs money, and it is a business, so they offer free access to draw customers in and a premium level of access that supports their cost of doing business (and hopefully make a profit).

 

But there is nothing that keeps you from logging your finds on the logs in the caches and leaving it at that. In fact that IS what geocaching is about, signing the log in the cache, not collecting smilies and logging finds online.

 

Groundspeak is a service to you, and you can use it for free, or pay a small amount and get additional services. But it is not necessary to use Groundspeak's service to go geocaching. But it sure makes it easier!

 

Groundspeak has done an excellent job of creating a demand for their services that it is the premiere place to get cache information. But geocaching is still an activity open to all, with our without Groundspeak.

[+welch]

I checked out 14225. Only 153 MOC caches out of 6146. Lots to choose from before you become a PM.

 

6146 is if you use a radius of 100 miles (meaning the area is giant circle 200 miles across), if they don't happen to hunt all that area there still many caches to hunt but not as many.

 

zip 14225 is an interesting lump... If you reduce the radius the MOC take up a greater percent of the total

with a 100mile radius its 153/6146 = 2.5%

at 50 its 101/1524 = 6.6% (the percent has more than doubled, while total caches has drop to a quarter of what it was)

at 25 the numbers are 67/850 = 7.9 % (the MOC percentage has increased 1.3%, while the total caches have dropped to half of what the were)

If you go all the way down to right around the zip of their zip (say 5.6 mile radius) MOCs are 20% of all the caches.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Interestingly enough, the vast New York City area (which some would think might have the greatest cache piracy potential of any area in the world) has very very few premium only caches. In fact, until recently, the only ones I knew of within 50 miles of us were a bunch in Long Island hidden by Squealy, but there appear to be a few more now; including one by Perfect Tommy that related to last summers Westchester County tornado that he appears to have "un-premiumed" after a few days.

 

I think I've done three PM caches in The City (and I see one more). (At one point, I had Manhattan cleared...) I've probably done four or so in Jersey. There are not a lot around here. (And there are ways of getting around them, if you know a PM.)

 

To some of us, $30 ain't cheap. But, I enjoy the sport, so I help suport it.

[+michigansnorkelers]

$3 per month Elitist? I spend waaaaay more than that on gas every DAY I go geocaching.

 

I don't donate money to help out the websites I use. They're free, and I am content with their free side.

 

The same goes for Geocaching.com.

 

I don't donate money to keep the site going. But I DO have a premium membership. Why, because I'm not content with the free side. The premium features are WORTH IT TO ME. And that's why I'm a member.

 

And, member only caches are one of the premium features ... that I'm paying for.

 

To complain about premium members having premium features makes as much sense as complaining that premium cable TV subscribers get to watch first run movies and you don't!

Edited December 17, 2006 by michigansnorkeler

[Mr.Yuck]

I checked out 14225. Only 153 MOC caches out of 6146. Lots to choose from before you become a PM.

 

6146 is if you use a radius of 100 miles (meaning the area is giant circle 200 miles across), if they don't happen to hunt all that area there still many caches to hunt but not as many.

 

zip 14225 is an interesting lump... If you reduce the radius the MOC take up a greater percent of the total

with a 100mile radius its 153/6146 = 2.5%

at 50 its 101/1524 = 6.6% (the percent has more than doubled, while total caches has drop to a quarter of what it was)

at 25 the numbers are 67/850 = 7.9 % (the MOC percentage has increased 1.3%, while the total caches have dropped to half of what the were)

If you go all the way down to right around the zip of their zip (say 5.6 mile radius) MOCs are 20% of all the caches.

 

Ya know, I'm convinced no one pays attention the to numbers people throw out. There are many more MOC's within 5 miles of this guys house then there are are in the entire State of Illinois, which has almost 5,000 caches. You're a newbie, who just wants to check this geocaching thing out. 1 in 5 caches that show up on your zip search 10 pages out have that annoying little icon on them, and you can't even look at them. I'd think you'd be turned off by this Of course I'm just speculating, since the OP hasn't been heard from since the OP.

Edited December 17, 2006 by TheWhiteUrkel

[4x4van]

There are many good reasons for upgrading to a Premium membership, and just that of supporting the site is probably one of the best arguments. However, the one part of the equation that creates the most "angst" in these discussions is the MOCs. Personally, I think the so-called "feature" of MOCs creates more hard feelings among geocachers than it's probably worth.

 

No one is calling PMs elitist because of $3, but rather because some PMs have decided to allow only certain cachers to look for their caches. Unfortunately, perception is reality, and MOCs give an elitist impression by locking out a large percentage of cachers even though they have contributed greatly to this activity in other ways (mainly by hiding caches, without which there would be no reason for the site to exist in the first place).

 

To those who place MOCs and never open them up to the rest of us, are you willing to also quit searching for caches placed by non-premium members? If you can honestly answer "yes" to that, then more power to you. Otherwise, you appear to be at least a bit of a hypocrite. After all, if we are not good enough to seek your caches, why should you bother to seek ours?

[+Airmapper]

There are many good reasons for upgrading to a Premium membership, and just that of supporting the site is probably one of the best arguments. However, the one part of the equation that creates the most "angst" in these discussions is the MOCs. Personally, I think the so-called "feature" of MOCs creates more hard feelings among geocachers than it's probably worth.

 

No one is calling PMs elitist because of $3, but rather because some PMs have decided to allow only certain cachers to look for their caches. Unfortunately, perception is reality, and MOCs give an elitist impression by locking out a large percentage of cachers even though they have contributed greatly to this activity in other ways (mainly by hiding caches, without which there would be no reason for the site to exist in the first place).

 

To those who place MOCs and never open them up to the rest of us, are you willing to also quit searching for caches placed by non-premium members? If you can honestly answer "yes" to that, then more power to you. Otherwise, you appear to be at least a bit of a hypocrite. After all, if we are not good enough to seek your caches, why should you bother to seek ours?

 

I agree, it's the PMOC feature that gets all the flack. All the other features of being a PM make caching a lot easier, but does not restrict your access to caches. I don't hear people complaining because some cachers get Pocket Queries and others don't. It's an extra service and you pay for it.

 

Unfortunately you are just a member, so no PM will take you seriously. At least that the feeling I got when I made similar statements before paying the frog.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Okay, so what's wrong with 'elitism' as it's being (incorrectly) called here?

 

I am member of several private clubs. If you are not a member you can't come in. You want in, pay your dues!

 

I am a member of several airline and travel clubs. I get points and rewards for flying on the same plane you do. You don't, unless you join the club. Membership has its privileges!

 

As a Teke, a Tau Kappa Epsilon fraternity member since my days in college over thirty years ago, I share unique rights, privileges, bonds and capabilities with fraternal brothers that others do not. Want to know how we recognize one another? Join the fraternity and find out! Outsiders do not get to know.

 

I am a Freemason. As a member of that world-wide fraternity I prefer to do business with and share certain rights and privileges with brother Freemasons. If you are not a Freemason those privileges are not extended to you.

 

To make it a bit more to the point, I am a member of Sam's Club, a private wholesaler. If you do not belong you cannot shop there. Want to shop at Sam's? Buy a membership. Anyone can.

 

So, is it 'elitist' to want to share certain caches, for whatever reasons, with only other Premium Members?

 

No. Of course not... no more than it is eltist to extend privilege to brother members of a fraternity, or to sell products at discount only to members of a buying club.

 

Enough whining about PMOCs - you want to hunt them, buy a Premium Membership! Pretty simple concept, really.

 

Ed

Edited December 17, 2006 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+CanSolo]

AlabamaRambler,

 

The only flaw in your logic is that you don't have to pay anything to access geocaching.com, whereas all your examples are of traditional private clubs.

 

I've ponied up the cash for a GPSr, does that make me any less of a cacher than someone who has paid gc.com, or more than those that don't have a GPS, but use online maps????

 

We are all cachers, and in the end if people chose to make certain caches available to people who have given up money to those that look after and nurture this sport, then good to them. But also understand the feeling from those that feel paying for a GPSr is way more than enough of an investment to cache, and to have caches "denied" from you because you don't want to pay money to a particular company.

[+budd-rdc]

Even if Groundspeak removed the MOC feature, people can still choose to require additional logging requirements to restrict access, so "elitism" will live on.

 

I've heard various reasons why a cache is MOC, and they have already been discussed. The only one that seems "elitist" is people hiding one to force people to become a Premium Member, since it's used as a recruiting tool. I suspect it's not effective, judging by how often this topic comes up. Besides, many of us became PM for the PQ.

[+michigansnorkelers]

Just wondering?

 

Are the people who complain about paying $3/month for a premium membership the same ones who leave those golf balls and other junk in caches?