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New Geocachers placing caches?


DiS02
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Okay,

I've got my flamesuit on but I dont want this turned into a flame war, if that makes sense. (I may catch heck from those this is pointed at but ya know what, I dont care.)

 

A new cacher placed a cache with no finds on his/her online geoname, a couple people are now a *bit* upset about it, one the leader of the (local) group. One of the people upset has posted in previous logs that 'no one under 50 or so finds should be able to put out hides'.

 

A couple other people have posted notes welcoming the new cacher & sort of chatising those naysayers.

 

I used to do geocaching without logging my finds online until recently, I have been a member of GC.com since sometime in 95. I recently placed my first hide with only 10 online finds logged. I have also gootten family & a couple close friends involved in just the past couple months. I am going to be placing several more caches in a very short time (hopefully before the new yr), one or two that will be 5-5's dues to needing special equipment to get too.

 

With attitudes like this it makes me remember why I dont hang with certain *people* & why & why for the longest time I didnt log my finds online.

Also the stories I could get into about certain people would cast them in extremely bad light, thats for dang sure.

 

Be careful you dont live in a glass house before you start tossings roks at others, they may just bounce back & take you out.

 

Sheesh

 

--My questions are.. & of course open to reasonable debate & discussion :) --

 

1- What right does anyone have to think they can dicate how many finds you need before you can place a cache? I'm talking outside the PTB of this site?

 

2- What right does a (local) cacher or leader of the (local) group have in saying who can & cant place caches & when?

Edited by DiS02
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We're human, and all have the right to free thought and speach in this country. It's one of the reasons it's such a great country.

 

If someone wants to be a jerk and act like they know best, and their way is the only way, then they'll run their mouth and tell everyone else how they should cache.

 

It doesn't mean that they're right, and it doesn't mean that anyone has to listen to them. :)

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1- What right does anyone have to think they can dicate how many finds you need before you can place a cache? I'm talking outside the PTB of this site?

 

2- What right does a (local) cacher or leader of the (local) group have in saying who can & cant place caches & when?

 

Everyone has a right to their opinion, and everybody else has a right to ignore the owner of that opinion, or to debate it.

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I have been a member of GC.com since sometime in 95.

You must be the guy that taught Dave Ulmer how to Cache. (Sorry, I couldn't resist).

 

This has come up before. Some veterans hide poor Caches. Some nubies hide great Caches. And you can't predict in advance someones initial hide quality or their eventual potential. If someone feels that only 50 find Cachers are qualified to hide Caches, they have the option to not hunt for them. The rest of us can make up our own minds.

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I'm with you. Even assuming this isn't an experienced cacher who made a separate account for some reason, or just never logs finds, or something else other than it appears -- plenty of n00bs hide great caches. New blood often brings fresh ideas to caching. The first suspended-from-a-tree cache in my area was by a guy who didn't have all that many finds (and he says thought of it long before he actually hid it).

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A new cacher placed a cache with no finds on his/her online geoname, a couple people are now a *bit* upset about it, one the leader of the (local) group. One of the people upset has posted in previous logs that 'no one under 50 or so finds should be able to put out hides'.

 

Do you have a link to the cache in question?

 

If the cache was “good” or there were no problems with the coordinates, no such comments would have been posted. For some reason this cache was determined to be a waste of someone’s time and they attributed the crappy hide to the hider’s experience. That ain’t right.

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I don't think there is a magic number but I do feel that beginners should wait a while until they have some experience finding caches, but mostly so that they are more aware of what is and isn't a good idea. There was a new cacher in my area who jumped in and started hiding caches right away. Hide 1 was on private property and required crawling through a hole in a chain link fence to get to. Hide 2 was in the parking lot of an elementary school. Hide 3 was off of a rail trail but was on private property, near (or under) an RV.

 

This cacher has hidden some nice (allowable) caches since then, but there was alot a angst at the beginning, especially since he didn't take the criticism very well.

 

Windrose

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Nobody has the RIGHT to DICTATE to others how to do things, but as experienced cachers I think we all have the obligation to help newbies.

 

It's all in how it comes across. If stated properly, this could be a suggestion of "you may want to wait until you find X number of caches before placing your own so you can learn what you like, the rules........balh blah blah".

 

But, if he/she did in fact come right out and say "no one under 50 or so finds should be able to put out hides", that's not trying to help - it's just sounding off and not needed.

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1- What right does anyone have to think they can dicate how many finds you need before you can place a cache?

2- What right does a (local) cacher or leader of the (local) group have in saying who can & cant place caches & when?

 

None, and none. They can pontificate about it all they want, of course, but they can't do squat.

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A new cacher placed a cache with no finds on his/her online geoname, a couple people are now a *bit* upset about it, one the leader of the (local) group. One of the people upset has posted in previous logs that 'no one under 50 or so finds should be able to put out hides'.

 

Do you have a link to the cache in question?

 

If the cache was “good” or there were no problems with the coordinates, no such comments would have been posted. For some reason this cache was determined to be a waste of someone’s time and they attributed the crappy hide to the hider’s experience. That ain’t right.

Yeah, that was what I was wondering about in this case. Did they just look at the cache page and see the 0 finds and 0 hides and immediately start complaining? Or did they go to the cache first and have a problem with it and then complain?

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...

1- What right does anyone have to think they can dicate how many finds you need before you can place a cache? I'm talking outside the PTB of this site?

None.
2- What right does a (local) cacher or leader of the (local) group have in saying who can & cant place caches & when?
None. I would have told him to get bent.

 

You might want to remind this so-called leader that if we all waited until we had fifty finds before hiding any that the game would have died out in the beginning. This 'leader' has caches to find because others didn't wait to hide caches. Some of those caches were great, others were bad. The bad ones generally don't last long, so it all works out.

 

So many times, we find people who decide that they are in charge and the rest of us should listen to them. It's sad that this behavior actually works with some people.

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--My questions are.. & of course open to reasonable debate & discussion :surprise: --

 

1- What right does anyone have to think they can dicate how many finds you need before you can place a cache? I'm talking outside the PTB of this site?

 

2- What right does a (local) cacher or leader of the (local) group have in saying who can & cant place caches & when?

Too bad the person decided to editorialize instead of trying to make constructive comments. A person who's an acknowledged "leader" should know better.

 

Having said that, Geocaching isn't a "fundamental right" like eating, and does require some level of skill, so any discussions about equal rights is a bit silly. The newbie should consider taking advice from more experienced cachers with an open mind, even rants. The "ranter" should also consider the consequences of his actions and realize that he's in a position of being a mentor. A bit of responsibility on all sides can avoid misunderstandings as mentioned here.

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I'm a NOOB started in late Oct

 

between the family account and my alone account i have 13 finds. I have hid 1 cache, in a place i used to run the dogs with my brother and cousin. It has been well recived..it is by no means a cache and dash. It is a 1.5 mile hike round trip. you can take a short cut to knock it down to 1/2 mile 1 way..but you will either get very muddy or very wet!!

 

I had orignally planned on putting out 2 micros near work but deicded to ask some of the locals what they thought...they asked me not to since there are a few multis that end there...not having the time to do these on a lunch hour i had no idea...so didn't place...chose wiser... If the NOOB has a good idea, they should fish it out and see what the locals say...worse would be to submit after taking all the time to place and finding out a Mutli ends within the same area....

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... Having said that, Geocaching isn't a "fundamental right" like eating, and does require some level of skill, so any discussions about equal rights is a bit silly. The newbie should consider taking advice from more experienced cachers with an open mind, even rants. The "ranter" should also consider the consequences of his actions and realize that he's in a position of being a mentor. A bit of responsibility on all sides can avoid misunderstandings as mentioned here.
What fundemental skill? Being able to walk while looking at an arrow? Anyone who's ever played 'Hot or Cold' can play this game.

 

It's not like hiding a cache is rocket science, either.

1. Put cache together.

2. Find spot.

3. 'Hide' cache.

4. Mark a waypoint.

5. 'Advertise' your cache online.

 

Easy-peasy.

Edited by sbell111
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... If the NOOB has a good idea, they should fish it out and see what the locals say...worse would be to submit after taking all the time to place and finding out a Mutli ends within the same area....

... or you can ask your friendly neighborhood Reviewer. I'm sure that he'd be happy to tell you if there was any such problem with the location.

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It's not like hiding a cache is rocket science, either.

1. Put cache together.

2. Find spot.

3. 'Hide' cache.

4. Mark a waypoint.

5. 'Advertise' your cache online.

 

Easy-peasy.

No, it isn't rocket science, but I needed a teacher to learn how to communicate. Can't take those things for granted.

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It's not like hiding a cache is rocket science, either.

1. Put cache together.

2. Find spot.

3. 'Hide' cache.

4. Mark a waypoint.

5. 'Advertise' your cache online.

 

Easy-peasy.

No, it isn't rocket science, but I needed a teacher to learn how to communicate. Can't take those things for granted.
I'm sorry. I don't get your point. Edited by sbell111
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A new cacher placed a cache with no finds on his/her online geoname, a couple people are now a *bit* upset about it, one the leader of the (local) group. One of the people upset has posted in previous logs that 'no one under 50 or so finds should be able to put out hides'.

 

Who is to say that the person is a n00b at all - could be a :surprise: covert account :huh: and someone is out fishing.

 

No restrictions, as long as the cache is placed within the guidelines it is good to go. The last thing I do is to evaluate the hiders experience on placing a cache based from their total hides/finds - does it matter?

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IF asked I would recommend that a new cacher wait until they have found some before they hide.

I would NOT presume to tell anyone they can't hide a cache.

When a new cacher finds one of our caches I always make it a point to welcome them to this game ad offer to help them get going. I will answer any questions they have as well as I can. Sometimes that answer is "I don't know".

I would hate to rag on some new cacher and have them give up because they think we're a bunch of creeps.

 

I also have to wonder if the cache was in fact hidden by a new cacher, or an old hand with a secret identity.

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I am still 'new' to this great activity and placed my first cache earlier this year and i simply read up on placing caches, did all the recommened hints, etc... I have now placed 9 caches (found 41) and so far with all the feedback, all my caches seem to be doing well. So I don't feel simply having found a certain number of caches qualifies you to place a cache, hey, even soemone who has found 1,000 caches can still place a bad cache out there.

 

And for who controls the caches, I guess that is partly the role of the inital reviewer to see at least the basics are OK. Then i think it all plays it's self out if it's a bad cache, people are going to let you know for what ever reasons.

 

to be honest, i have found more enjoyment with placing caches then finding them. By searching around, thinking about making it a good 'hard' cache ,and even making the container 'worthy'is fun!

 

Thanks!

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I would hate to rag on some new cacher and have them give up because they think we're a bunch of creeps.

 

Well, we are, aren't we? I mean, I was promised that I would fit right in here!

 

No, you are thinking of the forums and I was talking about caching. :surprise:

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I am an advocate for waiting. If I am asked for my opinion, I suggest the completely arbitrary number of 100 finds prior to placing a hide. If I'm not asked, I don't say diddly. Some folks get the whole geocaching concept right out of the chute, placing amazing caches with only a few finds, whilst others seem to benefit from a bit of seasoning, since their hides improve as their experience increases. (I fell into the second category)

 

Sounds like the "local leader" might be a toad.

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Yeah, first off sorry for the typo, I was typing on a laptop & obviously mistyped 95 instead of 05. :surprise:

My bad, so sorry, hehe. Least y'all figured out I meant 05 :huh:

 

Now, the new-persons cache was approved by a well experienced approver. I dont want to get into details on here, mainly because it could apply anywhere, just not here.

 

The first notes were right after the approvers notes.. the ones ragging on the new acct name. The 50 or more post was made on another local cache by one of the aahh naysayers. They apparently never even visited the cache location as there is no mention of it.

 

If someone were to look at my stats here they would see I'd had 9 or so logged online finds before I did my 1st hide. One I'm very proud of & am proud of it because I prodded myself into it while finding an awesome state park area that not many know about.

I am also planning several more caches, I have the areas picked out, am putting them together, now just need the motivation to write them up & place them.

Several of them are going to be rough finds just because I want to do them that way. Personally I dont care if a lot of people go to them, I dont care if a lot of people dont find them, I'm doing them because *I* want too. I dont care if people call me a female dog, words dont bother me because they are just that, words. (shrugs)

 

The assumption was that because this person didnt have any finds that they are a newbie. As was said by another poster, it could be a very experienced cacher just stating to log them online, it could be an alias, it could be someone who has been reading the boards for quite awhile & just made the acct.

Honestly, I dont know, & really it doesnt matter to me. When I can get to that area I want to check out that cache, it sounds awesome & a couple others have said the same so I dont think its a bad cache.

 

If anything it almost sounds like a case of bad apples & jealousy that someone beat them to that area. It just surprised me I guess by the who made the comments, & the tone of them then the why.

 

(shrugs)

Ahh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I dont deny that, but attitudes like that make people turn away, instead of embracing it.

 

I wont confront them about it, I figure they have already been rebuked by more *experienced* cachers in the group & they wouldnt listen to me anyway, mainly cause they think I'm the big-mouthed noob who doesnt know how this game is played. I've had ahh brushes with them in the past & its one of the main reasons I refuse to associate with them.

 

Thanks all, I appreciate all sides of the thoughts posted :(

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Your questions were not about the relative quality of caches hidden by n00bs, but rather what right the local cachers have to complain about n00bs hiding caches. The answer is none.

As asked by others, were the complaints before or after they searched for them? If it were a terrible cache (coords badly off, not in accordance with guidelines, Gladware container), then constructive criticism is the best approach.

But, I'm not noted for my political correctness, or sensitivity. I've been noted to post logs like "Protective gloves are a good idea with the amount of broken glass on the rocks here." "Nice location, but Gladware seldom lasts more than a few weeks." "Didn't want to rifle through the homeless person's bedroom."

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Yeah, first off sorry for the typo, I was typing on a laptop & obviously mistyped 95 instead of 05. :surprise:

My bad, so sorry, hehe. Least y'all figured out I meant 05 :huh:

 

Now, the new-persons cache was approved by a well experienced approver. I dont want to get into details on here, mainly because it could apply anywhere, just not here.

 

The first notes were right after the approvers notes.. the ones ragging on the new acct name. The 50 or more post was made on another local cache by one of the aahh naysayers. They apparently never even visited the cache location as there is no mention of it.

As reviewers we apply the listing guidelines to all caches, regardless of the hider's experience level. If the cache meets the guidelines, we publish it. Now, a newcomer's cache hide may get looked at a bit more closely, and the reviewer may offer some helpful suggestions... but there is nothing in the guidelines that says one must have X number of finds before placing a cache.

 

I will often monitor caches hidden by 0/0 accounts to check the logs from the early finders. Some of the ones that took a lot of work to get published ("please go back and add a logbook, and move it away from the nearby puzzle cache's solution coordinates") turn out to be terrific hides that are well-received. Many newcomers have their favorite spots and are eager to share them with others. It is nice to be pleasantly surprised by those caches. Imagine if they had never been hidden.

 

Other caches, well, they don't get such glowing reviews. That is true of newcomers and veterans alike. For these I plug my nose with one hand while pressing the publish button with the other hand.

 

Cache pages should not be used as forums. They are for logging one's experience in finding the cache (or not finding it, as the case may be.) A cache owner is well within their rights to delete off topic logs. If the logs rise to flame level, i.e., a terms of use violation, write to Groundspeak or the local reviewer for assistance. We are not the log police, but we will address potty language, personal attacks, revelations of personal information and other TOU issues.

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No finds, and already placing a cache. Interesting.

Some people are just rude. Luckily, the finders of the cache in question (if this is the same cache) gave the cache hider plenty of support, including advising him that he has the ability to delete the offensive log. The cache appears to have been well received by all cachers except for the one malcontent..

Edited by sbell111
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--My questions are.. & of course open to reasonable debate & discussion :huh: --

 

1- What right does anyone have to think they can dicate how many finds you need before you can place a cache? I'm talking outside the PTB of this site?

 

2- What right does a (local) cacher or leader of the (local) group have in saying who can & cant place caches & when?

No, of course not. You don't take any chances with your questions, do you? :(

 

I'll answer the question you didn't ask: people with no logged finds seem more likely to place a cache only to abandon it. Off topic? Maybe, but what right does the OP have in saying who can and can't post and how? :surprise: (meant in good humor)

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...1- What right does anyone have to think they can dicate how many finds you need before you can place a cache? I'm talking outside the PTB of this site?

 

2- What right does a (local) cacher or leader of the (local) group have in saying who can & cant place caches & when?

 

What rights people think they have and what they do have are two different thing. The laurels they are resting on is real world experience though. Personally I hope that the average new cacher places whatever cache they get the urge to place before they become tainted by the local hiding style. There are lessons that can only be learned by placing caches.

 

As for the second question, unless the local head of the local group is locally elected...they are not the head of anything but a click. If they are respected they may hold some sway. They only have influence to peddle, not authority.

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As a fairly new cacher, I opted to wait until I had logged 50 finds before hiding my first cache. I felt that 50 finds allowed me to get a "feel" for the sport before hiding anything that would be "against the rules".

 

50 finds also allowed me to get a feeling for the types of caches that were possible, allowed me to understand what types of caches I liked and what I didn't like, which is what I have used as a basis for the caches that I hide. I am not a fan of un-themed micro's in the middle of nothing to see. So I don't hide them.

 

I prefer caches which use a great deal of creativity in the hide, and I enjoy caches that bring me to great spots. These have become my guidelines in my hides. But that's just me. I imposed my own limit of 50 caches. Nobody else told me when I was "good enough" to hide some tupperware.

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1- What right does anyone have to think they can dicate how many finds you need before you can place a cache? I'm talking outside the PTB of this site?

 

2- What right does a (local) cacher or leader of the (local) group have in saying who can & cant place caches & when?

 

1. I just started caching early last month with my cousin and just recently started caching on my own now. I don't think you need a minimum amount of finds to place a cache. In my own case I will wait after a few finds just to see several techniques that fellow cachers use and see what works and what doesn't. I presently have one in the works (in my head) lol.

 

2. Like someone said prior, excuse me for not remembering who...I would have told that local cacher or leader to get bent

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Dave Ulmer didn't have any finds when he placed his first cache.

 

But then, it was buried along side of the road and permission from the property owner. Oh, don't forget the can of beans in the cache.

 

This was going to be my point! If a certain number of finds were necessary to make a hide, this game would never have existed. When we started caching 30 finds were a lot for our area, now that looks like a two day total. New does not equate with stupid.

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Lol...not logging a find online? That would have never occurred to me. I started looking at the website, bought the GPS and book and went from there. *Child of the computer age here :D

 

But I do agree that newbie's sometimes need help. Being still a newbie in some people's eyes, I do however see things that other's do...leaving candy bars in caches (which I removed when I got there), taking without leaving, leaving quarters for good swag, but they're newbies, we all had to learn.

 

I don't think anyone should be down on anyone just because of numbers.

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I guess it doesnt matter who reopened this thread...

 

I guess I'm gonna have to ask for it to be locked (if possible) so it cant be reopened.

 

The local issue was pretty much resolved, a new 'fun' time occurred with a new target that was then taken care of. Life in my local area seems to never be dull. :anicute:

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