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What should I get, Canoe or kayak?


Me and my dad

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I wan't to add water transportation to my Christmas wish list but don't know what to ask for. I have Boy Scout experience with canoes but have never been in a kayak. Which one do I want and why? Pros and cons of each? I will be cacheing streams and lakes with a 9 year old. This means I'll need a two man kayak but can one pilot a two man kayak alone? All advice welcome.

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My wife and I have a canoe, she sits in front, all of our caching gear goes in the middle (why the heck do we need to carry all this gear for simply playing "hide-and-seek" ;):santa::mad: ?!) and I sit in the back. I've also kayaked (by myself, no passenger/copilot), and the kayak, being hollow, had a spot to store gear in. Kayaks are fun, but for a parent and a child, I'd recomend a canoe. They are actually very stable (we've canoed all the way across Oneida Lake for geocaching with no problem) and even on the off chance you flip one, they don't sink and you can flip it right back over and get in (it's not easy but you can do it). If you get a canoe, buy an extra "emergency" paddle and strap it in the canoe, they tend to get dropped on occasion and float away fast!

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I wan't to add water transportation to my Christmas wish list but don't know what to ask for. I have Boy Scout experience with canoes but have never been in a kayak. Which one do I want and why? Pros and cons of each? I will be cacheing streams and lakes with a 9 year old. This means I'll need a two man kayak but can one pilot a two man kayak alone? All advice welcome.

What I think you are asking is, "What type of water transportation do I use with my GPS to go find caches?"

 

Will you find caches on a river or around a lake? Two different types of water to deal with. Pick your most do-able style. I would say if you do not have rivers with very active white water and steep drops, go with the canoe. That would cover both types of water. If lots of white water, kayak.

Edited by zoltig
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I own a tandem kayak, and often paddle alone. I've paddled my Old Town Loon 160T solo as far as 100 miles on a 4 day trip down the Manistee River in Michigan.

 

That said, you REALLY need to try paddling a tandem before buying one, especially since you never paddled a kayak before. Tandem kayaks are definately not for everyone!

 

If you will often be alone, the tandem might make sense. If you will always have a paddling partner, you might be happier with a canoe. Most canoes are made to be paddled by two persons, although solo models exist.

 

I strongly suggest you forget making a decision before Christmas until you think this through.

 

Here is a really great paddling website.

 

http://paddling.net

 

Post your question there and you'll get a lot of informed responses.

 

 

I

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We have a canoe as well as several kayaks.

It's a tough choice. A small canoe is easier to paddle with a child, and generally carries more gear and is easier to handle then a yak. It would also be hard for 1 adult to get a canoe on and off a car. There are roof systems that can assist, so don't let this kill the canoe option.

There are some solo kayaks that have a large enough cockpit to also seat a child or dog. I seem to remember one even had a jumpseat for a child. Tandem kayaks are longer then solos, and as such are tougher to manuver un tight places, especially with a solo paddler.

 

I know, so far I havent been a whole lotta help. Well, we have a boy who just turned 10, and how we handle it depends on the paddle. Long distance or tough conditions we would go for the canoe. Last summer we bought him a small sit-upon style inflatable kayak. On calm water he paddles this, usually with a leash tied to my waist (me in my yak) just in case. It's worked out very well, to the point were my wife and I also bought inflatables for knocking around on the river near our house. The boy seems to enjoy paddling his own boat, so we'll be looking for a real kayak (if I can find something that fits a 50lb kid) for him next year.

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I'm a paddlecraft nut, with experience in both canoes, sit-in kayaks and sit-on-top kayaks. I have three 'yaks sitting in my yard as I type. In my younger days, I loved nothing more than paddling my canoe to parts unknown, just to see what was around the corner. Every so often, I'd see "some nut" paddling one of those Eskimo thingys, and just shake my head at their foolishness.

 

Now I'm one of those "nuts". :santa:

 

Pound for pound/foot per foot, kayaks are far more stable than any canoe ever built. Kayaks are faster than canoes, simpler to steer than canoes, and aren't affected by cross winds nearly as bad as canoes are. I'm not knocking canoes, as I've owned & paddled everything from a beat up aluminum Mohawk to a Kevlar Nova Craft, and having done so, I would almost always opt for a kayak over a canoe. The exception would be if I'm planning a paddling trip requiring more than 200 pounds or so of gear. Canoes have an advantage over kayaks when it comes to filling a dual role as both transportation and barge.

 

The aforementioned Paddling.net is a great resource to get you started in your search. The very best advice I could give anyone thinking about plopping down several hundred dollars for a paddle craft is, "Try it before you buy it". Good luck, Brother! Welcome to the madness! :mad:

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I think a canoe is a bit more versatile. You can carry a third person if necessary, or a cooler and generally a lot more weight. With the right canoe you run whitewater or fish a quiet lake. Also you aren't stuck in one position the entire time. Sit on the seat, kneel, sit on the floor to relax in the sun.

 

Sure a kayak is faster and you can take it places that you can't bring a canoe, but I think you can do a bit more with a canoe.

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Like some of those above me, I've got experience in both canoes and kayaks. I'd paddled lots of canoes before every trying a kayak, and it took me a while to get used to it.

 

While I much prefer the efficiency of a kayak--like Riffster said, they're faster and more agile--the canoe is more versatile like Mopar pointed out. Probably better for having a kid along.

 

When someone asks me the difference, this is how I explain it to them:

 

To simulate paddling a canoe, get a chair and put it in your bathtub. If you have any gear, put that in there too. You'll probably have some snacks or a water bottle. Now, sit on the chair.

 

To simulate paddling a kayak, get a chair and put it in the bathtub. If you have any gear, put that in the bathtub, too. A water bottle and some snacks. Now sit in the bathtub and put the chair over your legs.

 

Jamie

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I have a fairly large Mad River fiberglass canoe (16 1/2' if I remember right) which I usually paddle alone, and several flobot folding kayaks. The following statement is absolutely true: "kayaks are far more stable than any canoe ever built. Kayaks are faster than canoes, simpler to steer than canoes, and aren't affected by cross winds nearly as bad as canoes are". I would usually chose the kayak for speed, stability, and any open water. I would the canoe if I wished to carry any equipment, or if I wanted to fish (tough to do in a kayak) or take someone along. I've never used a tandam kayak. I also wish I had a hardshell kayak (man those things must be swift compared to mine!) My canoe is great for lazy backwater journeys and for when I want to get in and out often (tougher to do in a kayak).

52248_300.jpg

 

My folding kayak:

3ca2eb8d-cc1a-4d8e-93e3-e65b4cb9d62e.jpg

Edited by EraSeek
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Consider a third option - an inflatable.

 

They come in all shapes and sizes and are far more easily transported.

 

Seyvlor makes the rafts and inflatable boats for the Navy, including the SEAL team equipment, and thir civilian products are built with the same quality and durability.

 

I keep a 2-man 10' Sevylor Fish Hunter in the back of my Tahoe, along with a fly rod, and anytime I am traveling and see a pretty stream I am ready to go! Mine even has a small electric motor that will take me about 15 miles on a motorcycle battery charge!

 

Take a look at their inflatable kayaks and canoes

 

Good stuff!

Ed

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Interesting.

 

I have rafted, canoed, kayaked, sailed and motor boated in every type of marine craft imaginable with my five kids since they were in diapers (they're 15 thru 33 now); we've owned everything from toy rafts to 28' flybridge cruisers... what makes the difference in your experience?

 

Do you perceive one to be safer for kids than another?

 

My experience is that the wider the vessel and the lower the center of gravity the better the experience - you are far less likely to overturn a raft than a canoe, hard-sided or soft.

 

If you go with the kayak or canoe consider outriggers, which make it niegh on to impossible to overturn them.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Interesting.

 

I have rafted, canoed, kayaked, sailed and motor boated in every type of marine craft imaginable with my five kids since they were in diapers (they're 15 thru 33 now); we've owned everything from toy rafts to 28' flybridge cruisers... what makes the difference in your experience?

 

Do you perceive one to be safer for kids than another?

 

My experience is that the wider the vessel and the lower the center of gravity the better the experience - you are far less likely to overturn a raft than a canoe, hard-sided or soft.

 

If you go with the kayak or canoe consider outriggers, which make it niegh on to impossible to overturn them.

I didnt mean you, TAR. I was typing that post at the same time you were typing yours. I did mention the inflatable option (though not the raft). Just some of the posts in this thread seem more oriented to solo paddling then paddling with a child.

Edited by Mopar
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Just some of the posts in this thread seem more oriented to solo paddling then paddling with a child.

 

OK. I bought my canoe, a large one as I said, with the idea of bringing the family, (wife or any of our 3 kids). That has rarely happened. When they have come (the wife never has) the canoe worked well. I have also taken the kids (on rarer occasions) in our single person kayaks (me in one, the kid in the other). This also worked ok, though I stayed close. The canoe probably worked better simply because we were in the same boat and we could share more and I could control things a bit better, but having some independance for the kid was a good thing too. Just keep in mind your experience may be the same as mine. They may have other things they'd rather do. Boating, geocaching, pretty much my thing; Nintendo, friends, their thing. I wish they'd come and have the adventures I have, but if I forced them into it no one would be happy.

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The aforementioned Paddling.net is a great resource to get you started in your search. The very best advice I could give anyone thinking about plopping down several hundred dollars for a paddle craft is, "Try it before you buy it". Good luck, Brother! Welcome to the madness! :)

That sounds good to me.

Not really the right time of year, but it might make a lot of sense to figure if went and rented (or burrow if you know anyone with a canoe or 2 person kayak) and went on some excurisons before paying out $$.

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Here's another thought, since my perception is that as a group, we've done a great job of illustrating that there are several workable solutions, and it ultimately comes down to an issue of the OP's personal preference. But how does he establish a preference?

 

Before I bought my first paddlecraft (yak/canoe/raft doesn't matter), I paddled about 15 different kinds of boats. I actually started out thinking I wanted a whitewater kayak first, but ended up getting something different because of my experiences. I had that luxury because I joined a local paddling group that not only provided basic paddling instruction, but was blessed with members that went out of their way to loan me different boats, paddles, PFDs, etc, so I could decide what would work for me before I plunked down my dinero. They gave advice on what accessories to buy right away, and what I could delay until my budget caught up with my greed. They even held some wintertime paddles in a local indoor pool for the purpose of just kicking the tires on different boats (sponsored by vendors, of course).

 

Now, I'm not saying that every paddling group will offer all of this, or if there's even one in the OP's area (though that close to Boston, this might be a place to start), but it's an option to consider. It would blow the whole holiday wish-list plan, but I'm so glad I waited. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

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I wan't to add water transportation to my Christmas wish list but don't know what to ask for. I have Boy Scout experience with canoes but have never been in a kayak. Which one do I want and why? Pros and cons of each? I will be cacheing streams and lakes with a 9 year old. This means I'll need a two man kayak but can one pilot a two man kayak alone? All advice welcome.

Consider 2 kayaks. I have seen kids handle them fine. Renting before you buy is a good idea. Your area in Massachusetts has plenty of rental places. If you intend to paddle mostly on rivers, avoid a double, you will never be able to turn it around on a narrow river. Also, don't buy a cheap PFD, if it's uncomfortable or restricting, you will be tempted not to wear it.
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If you intend to paddle mostly on rivers, avoid a double, you will never be able to turn it around on a narrow river.

 

This is true. With a tandem kayak you are losing some of the benefits that a kayak has over a canoe, the main one being maneuverability.

 

Also, its easier for most tandem canoes to be paddled solo than for most tandem kayaks. I say most, because I wouldn't want to paddle an Old Town Tripper, Mad River Lamoille or We No Nah Minnesota or Jensen solo. But many tandem canoes paddle very nicely solo. My Mad River Explorer is easy to handle alone. The Nova Craft Prospector, We No Nah Spirit II and Bell Yellowstone are other tandem canoes that have a rep of handling very easily solo.

Edited by briansnat
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I have a Loon 160T also, and I am able to pilot it solo, but since I am "vertically challenged," and I drive a minivan, it is difficult to load without help.

 

One thing you should consider is storage. This particular model must be stored on its end (impossible) or on its side (it just fits into our garage.) If storing outside, one must take particular caution to make sure there is no water left in it when stored, or it will become a breeding ground for mosquitoes. Canoes are always stored upside down, and are much easier to empty.

 

While browsing the Old Town canoe site earlier, the same size canoe has double the capacity of the kayak, and only weighs 10 lbs more. The kayak also creates alot of drag while driving.

 

I agree with many of the previous posters, go to a local shop that rents both and decide for yourself. I felt more secure in the kayak, but that's just me.

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I would go with the kayak. And I would go for two.

 

Your son is old enough to paddle by himself. Just start him out easy. And buy good PFDs for each of you. And get lessons or read good books about paddling.

 

In all likelyhood you are not going to be paddling in/on rough water. And a kayak is the most forgiving craft on the water. This is a great time in his life for him to learn a new sport and get a good dose of self confidence.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

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Folding boats only if there is a storage issue, or a travel issue.

 

Folbots.com

A venerable United States Manufacturer with lower prices than the famouns german makers.

 

Canoe for general purposes. Paddle a canoe solo by turning it around and sitting in the bow seat. It is amazing how many people want to continue paddling solo from the stern seat. All that does is raise the bow high in the air where any little breeze turns it into a weather vane, blowing all over the place.

 

Kayaks have it all over canoes for solo paddling. Canoes have it all over for tandem paddling, camping, fishing . Kayaks are much more stable, much better in the wind.

 

Canoe and Kayak Magazine Buyers Guide is available now. On newstands.

There is a company Jersey Paddler and they have a website that can help you identify your needs.

 

First boat I would definately go canoe. Old, tired, fat, stiff go with the canoe.

 

Svelte, lithe, wiry, slim of butt , solo go with the Kayak.

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Canoe for general purposes. Paddle a canoe solo by turning it around and sitting in the bow seat. It is amazing how many people want to continue paddling solo from the stern seat. All that does is raise the bow high in the air where any little breeze turns it into a weather vane, blowing all over the place.

 

Note that this only works with symmetrical canoes. Some canoes have asymmetrical hulls and have a front and a back. So if you are looking to paddle a tandem canoe solo, then make sure you choose a canoe with a symmetrical hull

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Count us in the canoe bunch.

 

My wife and I, two dogs, and lots of gear, including folding lawn chairs, ice chest of goodies, dry bags with extra clothes, and day packs with hiking gear made the canoe the better choice for us. A canoe lets you move the cargo around to better trim depending on wind and water conditions. Shifting gear around is bit more problematic in a kayak.

 

I disagree with the poster that said it hard to paddle solo in a 2-seater canoe. Ours is just about as easy either way.

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Canoe - Easier to get in and out of, which is very important especially when navigating a portage route.

 

Heavier canoes are better in my opinion, Yes they suck when you have to carry them for a few kilometers, but it really pays off when you are in water with sharp rocks, or have to navigate over a beaver dam.

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Many good points here. I'll throw in my two cents.

 

I've paddled just about anything you can and a lot of things you shouldn't. Hands down, the best option is the right, tandem, sit-on-top kayak.

 

I recommend a Hobie Kona or similar. Benefits are:

 

-Low and wide, resulting in insane stability. You'll be hard pressed to flip one.

-Tracks well.

-For the price, comes with all necessary accessories. (Paddles, seats, and even insulated water bottles!) Other manufacturers "get you" with the cost of these necessary items as add-ons.

-TONS of in hull storage.

-Lots of deck space. So much so that you could add a third, small occupant on the front deck, middle section, or rear tankwell. We've done this a few times.

 

Now, here's the number one benefit. The Kona, and some other models out there, can be setup as a one-person kayak. You simply remove the two seats, putting one in a "middle position" that's provided.

 

My wife paddles our Kona with my 9 y/o daughter in the front seat. The amount of time my 9 y/o is actually contributing to the forward motion is minimal (LOL!). She's still able to keep up with me just fine.

 

Number one recommendation is to try before you buy. Any paddle shop worth their weight will allow you a "test drive". Most of the shops here have monthly demo days where they take most of their models to a local lake and let folks give them a try. The ones that don't will often rent you one for the day and offer the price of the rental off the purchase price should you decide to buy a new one.

 

Best of luck!

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I just want to remind people that the OP wants to paddle with a 9yr old.

IMNHO that is totally different then solo paddling or 2 adults.

 

My thought exactly! I would definately say that a canoe is probably the tool. I like ocean kayaking and they are really nice for that, but rivers and lakes in a "caching" trip with a 9 year old? - I'd so canoe.

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I would make a case for purchasing a sit-on-top (SOT) kayak, likely an inflatable. The record shows that a SOT kayak is far safer in water than a traditional sit-inside (SI) kayak or canoe, unless the SIT kayak or canoe is quipped with side floats, which tend to be known in the trade as sponsons. It is hard to fall out of a SOT kayak, and, if you do fall out, it is far easier to re-enter a SOT kayak than it is to re-enter a SI kayak or canoe, and it is continued water immersion which kills most people on the water.

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On a similar note as Vinny's; My SOT is the Drifter, by Ocean Kayak. The first day I owned it I took it out paddling in Mosquitto Lagoon. The salesman convinced me to learn shallow water as well as deep water re-entry techniques, and as part of my initial practice, I intentionally tried to flip my 'yak over. I could get it turned so far it was dang near sitting on it's edge, but I couldn't invert it. Getting back into a sit-in-side is a difficult task at best, not unlike getting back in a flipped canoe. Getting back on a SOT is as easy as climbing on a surfboard. If you're considering paddling in areas where water temperature can kwickly lead to physical disfunction, you should think about how long it's going to take you to re-enter your vessel of choice.

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I would go with the kayak. And I would go for two.

 

Your son is old enough to paddle by himself. Just start him out easy. And buy good PFDs for each of you. And get lessons or read good books about paddling.

 

In all likelyhood you are not going to be paddling in/on rough water. And a kayak is the most forgiving craft on the water. This is a great time in his life for him to learn a new sport and get a good dose of self confidence.

 

Deane

AKA: DeRock & the Psychic Cacher - Grattan MI

 

Exactly!!! I was wondering how far down I would have to scroll to find someone that had some confidence in a 9 year old's ability to paddle.

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Another option to consider is a pontoon boat for fly fishing. I have had one for several years and they are stable, have tons of space for gear and are insanely maneuverable. Your 9-year-old would be able to paddle his or her own and that's a real plus at that age as they are thinking about the "I can do it myself" thing.

 

Here is a link to the Outcast series. I've been in all kinds of weather, dragged it through rocks and dirt and all and it seems to be about bullet-proof. They also deflate and pretty much fit in the trunk of a decent sized car. There is also a two person model, but it seems kind of pricey.

 

Outcast Pontoon Boats

 

Shoot, at this age, as long as you can get them to still be seen in public with you, you are already ahead of the game! :(

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Go with the canoe it is much more practicle for two people and easier to get in and out of. A 14 1/2 foot model would be fine for you two. You will find a canoe can be bought for the mid 300 dollar range that will serve you for years. later on if your kid is still into going with you get one man yaks for each of you. happy paddling. Cladius.

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I wan't to add water transportation to my Christmas wish list but don't know what to ask for. I have Boy Scout experience with canoes but have never been in a kayak. Which one do I want and why? Pros and cons of each? I will be cacheing streams and lakes with a 9 year old. This means I'll need a two man kayak but can one pilot a two man kayak alone? All advice welcome.

 

I'm a boy scout myself, and I enjoy both. For a pair of adults, a canoe makes the most sense, with stability and capacity being pluses. A tandem kayak would probably be better for a small child tho admittedly, I have little experience with a tandem. Kayaks by far out do canoes in terms of maneuverability, but lack quite a bit of stability. Canoes tend to be heavier, so solo moving is an issue until the tyke grows up.

 

For lake water tansport -canoe, hands down. For river, I'd probably recommend the Kayak. I kayak myself on the White River near Whitehall/Montague often and you can't beat a kayak's maneuverability. Canoes, as least the type I'm used to, can be piloted solo, but you generally have to kneel in the middle and can be trying on the knees.

 

As your tyke grows tho, a canoe will turn out to be the better investment - just make sure he doesn't lose interest in canoing! A properly paddled canoe, by two experienced rowers can be just as maneuverable as a kayak, and hold more weight as well.

 

Be prepared - and keep that kid in scouts!

 

Interesting side note - Once at Owasippe on the White River, a new scouting regulation rerquired one CPR certified person and one Life gaurd who were not the same person. My enterprising father found that my brother and I were the only ones in camp that had each. We went of 10 canoe trips that week, for free, two or three a day - between 25-50 scouts in canoes and us in kayaks. Good times... Tiring...but good times...

--MGb

 

Eagle, 1994.

 

Edited for content

Edited by mgbmusic
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100_0893.jpg

 

Love my Old Town Predator K140's!

Open hull design and the seat slides on rails. You could easily get your child in here and it's not too big for a kid to learn in.

 

My granite X-Terra is Screaming for a Kayak... Man that looks good up there. I have a question though, my X is pretty tall as it is, Just how much of a pain is it to get the yak on top? and, what do you think is the overall height once it's up there? There's a couple low bridges round here. B)

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[ my X is pretty tall as it is, Just how much of a pain is it to get the yak on top? and, what do you think is the overall height once it's up there? There's a couple low bridges round here. B)

 

There are other types of mounts, and a few devices to assist in getting them up there.

 

Mounting them like ours may or may not be easier, and you have more clearance:

6ca30022-9762-40cc-8811-b62f1c62a790.jpg

 

You can add one of these for about $50 or so, and it looks like it would be a big help loading solo:

8004018-image-1-big.jpg

 

This is the ultimate in cool, but runs like $400-500!

thule-897xt-hullavator-anim.gif

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There is some good advice above, but I will add mine anyway B)

 

I bought a canoe about 25 years ago and still have it. I used it with my sons when they were kids. We traveled down rivers, camped on river banks, fished rivers and lakes, and even did some bow-fishing from the canoe. I was a very good investment. I have also used 2 person kayaks and they are also fun, but not as versatile. The canoe can carry much more gear, and a third person can sit on the floor in the center. I think a kid might get "antsy" in a kayak since you cannot move around at all. So I would recommend the canoe.

 

If you decide to get a canoe, you will notice there is a wide range of choices. If you think you may want to do some white water some day, you probably want one of the shorter smooth bottom canoes. If capacity is a requirement, get a 17 footer. But if you will be loading the canoe on the car by yourself, weight is a major issue, unless you are a weight lifter.

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