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James Kim


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I plan for abandoning the car in an urban setting most of the time

Me too. Cell phone and credit card :)

As recently experienced in the great blackout of 2006, that doesn't work well in large blanketed black out areas. Cell phones barely made the grade unless you were close enough to a working tower and no guarantee of getting on them then with the saturation levels. Credit cards were worth their weight in value in stores that had no power. I suppose I could have grabbed a hat and flipped them into it from 10 feet away. :D

I thought we were talking about abandoning the car in a city :)

All of King County and more was blacked out. That includes many cities and towns including Seattle and Bellevue to just name a couple familiar towns.

Edited by TotemLake
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I plan for abandoning the car in an urban setting most of the time

Me too. Cell phone and credit card :)

As recently experienced in the great blackout of 2006, that doesn't work well in large blanketed black out areas. Cell phones barely made the grade unless you were close enough to a working tower and no guarantee of getting on them then with the saturation levels. Credit cards were worth their weight in value in stores that had no power. I suppose I could have grabbed a hat and flipped them into it from 10 feet away. :D

I thought we were talking about abandoning the car in a city :)

All of King County and more was blacked out. That includes many cities and towns including Seattle and Bellevue to just name a couple familiar towns.

Still don't have power at my office, in Bellevue.

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I plan for abandoning the car in an urban setting most of the time

Me too. Cell phone and credit card :rolleyes:

As recently experienced in the great blackout of 2006, that doesn't work well in large blanketed black out areas. Cell phones barely made the grade unless you were close enough to a working tower and no guarantee of getting on them then with the saturation levels. Credit cards were worth their weight in value in stores that had no power. I suppose I could have grabbed a hat and flipped them into it from 10 feet away. :cool:

I thought we were talking about abandoning the car in a city :)

All of King County and more was blacked out. That includes many cities and towns including Seattle and Bellevue to just name a couple familiar towns.

My car continued to operate throughout the power outage. :) It never occurred to me to abandon it when the lights went out.

 

Yeah, I know about gas pumps requiring power, but on the guaranteed 1/2 tank of gas you'd have at any given moment you could drive a long way :P (unless you drive an H2).

 

just in case you have't picked up on it, I am just having a little fun with this thread.

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I plan for abandoning the car in an urban setting most of the time

Me too. Cell phone and credit card :rolleyes:

As recently experienced in the great blackout of 2006, that doesn't work well in large blanketed black out areas. Cell phones barely made the grade unless you were close enough to a working tower and no guarantee of getting on them then with the saturation levels. Credit cards were worth their weight in value in stores that had no power. I suppose I could have grabbed a hat and flipped them into it from 10 feet away. :cool:

I thought we were talking about abandoning the car in a city :P

All of King County and more was blacked out. That includes many cities and towns including Seattle and Bellevue to just name a couple familiar towns.

My car continued to operate throughout the power outage. :) It never occurred to me to abandon it when the lights went out.

 

Yeah, I know about gas pumps requiring power, but on the guaranteed 1/2 tank of gas you'd have at any given moment you could drive a long way :) (unless you drive an H2).

 

just in case you have't picked up on it, I am just having a little fun with this thread.

Oh yah. I picked up on that, but it was a perfect situation that repeated itself from 1993. In 1993 I had 1/4 tank of gas and it was used up sitting in a gas line 1.5 miles long. I kid you not. I managed to drive into the station and get a full tank. That experience never left me. I was lucky; recognized it; and now plan for these situations.

 

A direct result of that inaugural day has emergency supplies in the car; now in the form of a backpack with the 10 essentials to get me home by foot if I have to. With the 1/2 tank rule in the winter and with a little luck, the car will run it's course through the worst of it. However, it doesn't plan for engine troubles or other mechanical breakdowns and my Jeep has had its share of them. I lost count of all the cars I saw abandoned on the freeway because they ran out of gas.

 

Credit cards are useless in blackouts except to pick some locks. The cell phone system was extremely fragile and non-existent in some areas. Where it did exist, took several tries to get a connection if you got one at all before the battery died.

 

Here's an exercise for you. In the event of an earthquake, map a route from your job to your home that does not require you to go under or over a bridge, no matter how insignificant that bridge. I work a minimum of 10 miles from home and have several routes I can use to get home. Every route has a bridge involved. I can't do it... even with a full tank of gas. So what do you do? The closest I can get is within 5 miles of my home. I would have to walk the rest of the way and be prepared for some kind of chaos. That's what I plan for.

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I plan for abandoning the car in an urban setting most of the time

Me too. Cell phone and credit card :rolleyes:

As recently experienced in the great blackout of 2006, that doesn't work well in large blanketed black out areas. Cell phones barely made the grade unless you were close enough to a working tower and no guarantee of getting on them then with the saturation levels. Credit cards were worth their weight in value in stores that had no power. I suppose I could have grabbed a hat and flipped them into it from 10 feet away. :cool:

I thought we were talking about abandoning the car in a city :P

All of King County and more was blacked out. That includes many cities and towns including Seattle and Bellevue to just name a couple familiar towns.

My car continued to operate throughout the power outage. :) It never occurred to me to abandon it when the lights went out.

 

Yeah, I know about gas pumps requiring power, but on the guaranteed 1/2 tank of gas you'd have at any given moment you could drive a long way :) (unless you drive an H2).

 

just in case you have't picked up on it, I am just having a little fun with this thread.

Oh yah. I picked up on that, but it was a perfect situation that repeated itself from 1993. In 1993 I had 1/4 tank of gas and it was used up sitting in a gas line 1.5 miles long. I kid you not. I managed to drive into the station and get a full tank. That experience never left me. I was lucky; recognized it; and now plan for these situations.

 

A direct result of that inaugural day has emergency supplies in the car; now in the form of a backpack with the 10 essentials to get me home by foot if I have to. With the 1/2 tank rule in the winter and with a little luck, the car will run it's course through the worst of it. However, it doesn't plan for engine troubles or other mechanical breakdowns and my Jeep has had its share of them. I lost count of all the cars I saw abandoned on the freeway because they ran out of gas.

 

Credit cards are useless in blackouts except to pick some locks. The cell phone system was extremely fragile and non-existent in some areas. Where it did exist, took several tries to get a connection if you got one at all before the battery died.

 

Here's an exercise for you. In the event of an earthquake, map a route from your job to your home that does not require you to go under or over a bridge, no matter how insignificant that bridge. I work a minimum of 10 miles from home and have several routes I can use to get home. Every route has a bridge involved. I can't do it... even with a full tank of gas. So what do you do? The closest I can get is within 5 miles of my home. I would have to walk the rest of the way and be prepared for some kind of chaos. That's what I plan for.

I live 25 miles from work and don't think I can drive 5 miles without encountering a bridge etc and it doesn't need to be an earthquake. All it takes is a bad accident on 405 and everyone switches to the surface roads which equals instant gridlock. What should take me less than hour to get home becomes many hours under those conditions.

Edited by Recdiver
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I live 25 miles from work and don't think I can drive 5 miles without encountering a bridge etc and it doesn't need to be an earthquake. All it takes is a bad accident on 405 and everyone switches to the surface roads which equals instant gridlock. What should take me less than hour to get home becomes many hours under those conditions.

 

When I was working, it was about 10 miles to work, but there was no way to avoid a bridge. Work was on one side of the Duwamish and home on the other. On my normal route, I only had to cross one bridge. That one was on 99 south of Boeing Field. I knew several others I could have used. The hardest time I had getting home was a snow storm. The bridges still worked, but the hills were not passable. Any planning should include that variable as well.

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What about when it snows right after a windstorm that knocked out power, followed by an earthquake with a tsunami, a major e-coli breakout, the resulting riots followed by a volcanic eruption? :(

 

I live 340 feet above sea level. A tsunami won't reach me but it will have a strong effect on how close the beach property will become to me. :D

 

Volcanic eruptions will only bother my ability to see and maybe breathe as we currently understand our live volcanoes. I'm not near any lahar areas.

 

My camping gear is in an outside shed so an earthquake that destroys my home creating an adverse effect on my living conditions won't make them too dire.

 

E-coli will have an effect only if you don't cook your foods completely. Water filter or purification pumps should handle your water supply.

 

The jeep is good at handling deep snow... I've done it. Driving in the dark doesn't bother me as much as it does others. My walk home will still be about 5 miles.

 

I am planning on adding a firearm to my equipment, for self-preservation purposes sometime after I get my mobile ham radio.

Edited by TotemLake
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James Kim

 

It looks like after many miles of walking, he ended up only about a mile from the car.

 

Wikipedia has conlflicting information on this. I can't really tell from the google maps, but the confusion seems to be whether he was a mile from the car or the Lodge:

"He was ultimately found roughly four miles from his vehicle as the crow flies, and about one mile from Black Bar Lodge, a boating outpost."

 

Then also Wikipedia states:

"There are a few unfortunate side notes to this tragedy. It was first thought that the Kims' car was parked at the intersection to the access road for Black Bar Lodge( 42°39'1.25"N - 123°44'54.15"W.) This would have put them less than a mile from a shelter that, while closed for the winter, would have had ample wood and food to allow them to survive for an extended period of time. This is not true; they were actually six miles from this shelter. Additionally, at final measure, the trek James Kim took on his own to rescue his family brought him 8 miles up a road, and then 8 miles down Big Windy canyon. Where he was found, he was roughly a mile (as the crow files) from his family’s car."

 

Also, it turns out that vandals were not the ones responsible afterall:

"Perhaps most frustrating, the side road where they were stranded should have been gated. It was originally believed that the BLM gated the road at the end of hunting season on November 1, 2006, and at some later point, vandals cut the lock. [1] However, on December 13, 2006, it was revealed that the employees of the U. S. Bureau of Land Management, the managers of the park, who had been dispatched to close the gate had decided against locking the gate due to the possibility of hunters being stranded inside."

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James Kim

 

It looks like after many miles of walking, he ended up only about a mile from the car.

 

Wikipedia has conlflicting information on this. I can't really tell from the google maps, but the confusion seems to be whether he was a mile from the car or the Lodge:

"He was ultimately found roughly four miles from his vehicle as the crow flies, and about one mile from Black Bar Lodge, a boating outpost."

 

Then also Wikipedia states:

"There are a few unfortunate side notes to this tragedy. It was first thought that the Kims' car was parked at the intersection to the access road for Black Bar Lodge( 42°39'1.25"N - 123°44'54.15"W.) This would have put them less than a mile from a shelter that, while closed for the winter, would have had ample wood and food to allow them to survive for an extended period of time. This is not true; they were actually six miles from this shelter. Additionally, at final measure, the trek James Kim took on his own to rescue his family brought him 8 miles up a road, and then 8 miles down Big Windy canyon. Where he was found, he was roughly a mile (as the crow files) from his family’s car."

 

Also, it turns out that vandals were not the ones responsible afterall:

"Perhaps most frustrating, the side road where they were stranded should have been gated. It was originally believed that the BLM gated the road at the end of hunting season on November 1, 2006, and at some later point, vandals cut the lock. [1] However, on December 13, 2006, it was revealed that the employees of the U. S. Bureau of Land Management, the managers of the park, who had been dispatched to close the gate had decided against locking the gate due to the possibility of hunters being stranded inside."

I've noticed Wikipedia isn't always authoritive on some subjects as the info entered can be unsubstantiated.

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I watched enough of Man vs Wild to get real ticked off ...SNIP

I believe in training but it should focus more on preparedness than survival. Learning how to biuld a fire in the PNW is good to practice but maybe always carrying matches and Sterno is a better approach? The best survival is staying out of situations that you are not prepared to deal with. My caution is that one need not do stupid things (Man vs the Wind) with a false confidence of having survival training.

I wouldn’t take much, if any, of what I saw on a TV show and believe for one minute that the information was practical or accurate. Discovery has a show called Bear Grylls, last week he was in a survival situation, and he was trying to catch a horse so he could ride back to civilization. Later he built a makeshift raft and shot the rapids. Right. :laughing:

 

Nobody is going to intentionally thrust themselves into a survival situation. I doubt many of us would ever carry a heavy can of sterno on a day hike or geocaching. This thread is sort of paralleling the one I started over here. I tried it, found it was more difficult than I thought, and saw some similarity with the situation James Kim was in. He was cold, wet, tired, and hungry. He supposedly had either matches or a lighter, but died of hypothermia.

 

Does anyone have a preference for when we’d like to do this? 30th or 31st? Later, after the holidays?

 

I saw the 6th get tossed in as a suggestion for this event. Is this still on?

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Regardless of whether a 'hike' is 20 miles or 2 miles, or even if you never leave sight of the city, it's important to know and practice the skills that will enable you and your companions to survive. To that end, if anyone wants to discuss getting together somewhere to collectively pool our knowledge and practice things like firecraft in a real world environment, let me know and we'll plan something.

Good question, Totem Lake. I was hoping to have heard from Crim on this subject.

:laughing: Other questions:

1 - Does Criminal want to plan it? Or was he hoping someone else would plan it?

2 - Does the 6th still work? That's this Saturday.

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Regardless of whether a 'hike' is 20 miles or 2 miles, or even if you never leave sight of the city, it's important to know and practice the skills that will enable you and your companions to survive. To that end, if anyone wants to discuss getting together somewhere to collectively pool our knowledge and practice things like firecraft in a real world environment, let me know and we'll plan something.

Good question, Totem Lake. I was hoping to have heard from Crim on this subject.

:laughing: Other questions:

1 - Does Criminal want to plan it? Or was he hoping someone else would plan it?

2 - Does the 6th still work? That's this Saturday.

I'm thinking about it, mostly about where to do it. The place I would suggest is Ranger Hole but that's west in the Olympics where most of the folks north of Tacoma rarely venture (which is good in many regards). My second choice is up in Og's neck of the woods up past Enumclaw. I can’t get my car in there though, so I’d have to hitchhike or carpool with someone.

 

Let’s brainstorm and see if we can get this planned in the next two days.

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Regardless of whether a 'hike' is 20 miles or 2 miles, or even if you never leave sight of the city, it's important to know and practice the skills that will enable you and your companions to survive. To that end, if anyone wants to discuss getting together somewhere to collectively pool our knowledge and practice things like firecraft in a real world environment, let me know and we'll plan something.

Good question, Totem Lake. I was hoping to have heard from Crim on this subject.

:unsure: Other questions:

1 - Does Criminal want to plan it? Or was he hoping someone else would plan it?

2 - Does the 6th still work? That's this Saturday.

I'm thinking about it, mostly about where to do it. The place I would suggest is Ranger Hole but that's west in the Olympics where most of the folks north of Tacoma rarely venture (which is good in many regards). My second choice is up in Og's neck of the woods up past Enumclaw. I can’t get my car in there though, so I’d have to hitchhike or carpool with someone.

 

Let’s brainstorm and see if we can get this planned in the next two days.

Is it a clearance or snow issue? If it's clearance, I can meet you someplace and Jeep it in. If it's snow, I am attempting to find time to get new tires.

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Regardless of whether a 'hike' is 20 miles or 2 miles, or even if you never leave sight of the city, it's important to know and practice the skills that will enable you and your companions to survive. To that end, if anyone wants to discuss getting together somewhere to collectively pool our knowledge and practice things like firecraft in a real world environment, let me know and we'll plan something.

Good question, Totem Lake. I was hoping to have heard from Crim on this subject.

:unsure: Other questions:

1 - Does Criminal want to plan it? Or was he hoping someone else would plan it?

2 - Does the 6th still work? That's this Saturday.

I'm thinking about it, mostly about where to do it. The place I would suggest is Ranger Hole but that's west in the Olympics where most of the folks north of Tacoma rarely venture (which is good in many regards). My second choice is up in Og's neck of the woods up past Enumclaw. I can’t get my car in there though, so I’d have to hitchhike or carpool with someone.

 

Let’s brainstorm and see if we can get this planned in the next two days.

Is it a clearance or snow issue? If it's clearance, I can meet you someplace and Jeep it in. If it's snow, I am attempting to find time to get new tires.

The last time I was up there it was both. The vic has about 2mm of clearance. I have some chains that might fit your jeep, PM me your tire size and I'll check.

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There’s a McDonalds on 410 on the far side of Enumclaw, we can meet there at 0930, if you’re late we’ll park at N47° 02.006 W121° 33.537, which is the parking spot for this Og cache. That should put us on the trail by 10ish. You’ll need a FS parking pass and I’ll bring mine in case anyone doesn’t have one. We’ll hike towards that cache and set up in the area. We’ll likely go off-trail for a short distance. Bring your FRS if you’ll be late and we can guide you to us.

 

Bring:

The types of fire starting materials you carry or would reasonably expect to carry while hiking. If you don’t hike with a pint bottle of gasoline, it wouldn’t make sense to bring one. Also, expect some snow, possibly a lot of it too, so dress accordingly. If the snow is really deep, I get first dibs for riding on TotemLake’s back while he tries out his new snowshoes.

 

This is not a contest to see who can get a fire going. Think of it as more of a workshop where we’ll all teach each other.

 

Can we get a headcount?

Edited by Criminal
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I'm in, and it looks like I'll have time to get a new set of front tires this week afterall. Btw, the new snowshoes look great! Can't wait to try them out!

If anybody is planning on riding my back, they better make sure they have the OSHA required straps and handholds installed.

:ph34r:

Edited by TotemLake
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I wish that I could join your group on Saturday. I'm sure that many of us could learn a lot from your training/experiences. Please give a full report if you can still type with frostbitten fingers.

 

Meanwhile, back at the original topic, I can now tell my survival story from the area several miles downstream from Bear Camp. On November 9 I drove in on the "road to the right" At the time that I went through the open gate the words "COAST" with an arrow to the left and DEAD END that were painted on the roads were not covered with snow. I drove 23 miles out the DEAD END road into Curry County. My objective was the final county in my "Counting Counties in Oregon" (GCR9XY) The highest rated cache in Curry county that was not archived is "Just Clowning Around". I arrived at the jumpoff point at 8:30AM 1.0 mile from the Rogue River. I arrived at the cache at 2:20PM! I climbed about 1700 feet elevation in about a 2 mile path to get back to my 4WD truck.

I got back to my truck at 9:30PM. After 13 hours away from my truck I was glad that it started and that I had dry clothes to put on. I called my wife on my cell from about 3 miles west of Merlin at 2:30AM. Don't ever count on cell coverage anywhere in Oregon.

I am certainly glad that whoever was driving the GOVERNMENT truck that I saw several miles up the road did not lock me in.

 

Things that I had and needed: 6V lantern, SUUNTO sighting compass, detailed BLM map of the area and I filled the tank in Grants Pass before I went in.

What I didn't do/pack: wore cotton Jeans, very limited food/liquids, no fire starting essentials, relied more on luck than skill.

If anyone reading this has questions about caches that are properly rated at 4.5 or 5.0 on the terrain, I can share some insights on how to minimize the risk.

My suggestion to the BLM about the gates: CLOSE but do not lock them. It keeps the uninformed such as Mr. Kim from going in, but lets anyone who is back in the maze to get out.

Lets all try to stay safe out there.

Tom Fuller Crescent, Oregon

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You'll need a FS parking pass and I'll bring mine in case anyone doesn't have one.
I'd love to use this, if possible, please. I looked into getting one online, but it would have to be mailed to me, and I won't get it in time.

 

Us two will be there.

 

You can buy a FS pass at REI, and several other locations, unless something has changed this year.

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You'll need a FS parking pass and I'll bring mine in case anyone doesn't have one.
I'd love to use this, if possible, please. I looked into getting one online, but it would have to be mailed to me, and I won't get it in time.

 

Us two will be there.

 

You can buy a FS pass at REI, and several other locations, unless something has changed this year.

 

Can I use a Sno-Park Pass in place of a FS Pass??

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You'll need a FS parking pass and I'll bring mine in case anyone doesn't have one.
I'd love to use this, if possible, please. I looked into getting one online, but it would have to be mailed to me, and I won't get it in time.

 

Us two will be there.

 

You can buy a FS pass at REI, and several other locations, unless something has changed this year.

 

Can I use a Sno-Park Pass in place of a FS Pass??

No. That's in addition to the FS pass at snow parks.

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Good question, Totem Lake. I was hoping to have heard from Crim on this subject.

:lol: Other questions:

1 - Does Criminal want to plan it? Or was he hoping someone else would plan it?

2 - Does the 6th still work? That's this Saturday.

 

So, as I sit here listening to the wind-driven rain pelting the side of the house, I am wondering about the usefulness of having this get together tomorrow. I realize that the whole point is that we would like to practice fire-making and talk about survival strategies so that if we find ourselves stranded in adverse conditions at some point we will be better prepared, but I also know that it would be beneficial for me, at least, to get some practice in under conditions where a newbie like myself has a decent chance of actually getting something to burn. Any other thoughts or opinions?

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Grrr.

 

We have been discussing this topic for a good long while this evening. We even tried keeping a match lit out in the backyard. While I feel badly for doing this, I think it's the right choice: we are going to bail on the date that I myself chose.

 

weather.com's Forecast for Enumclaw, WA for tomorrow:

Cloudy with occasional rain showers. High 43F. Winds SW at 10 to 20 mph. Chance of rain 60%. Rainfall near a quarter of an inch.

 

Sorry!

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Good question, Totem Lake. I was hoping to have heard from Crim on this subject.

:lol: Other questions:

1 - Does Criminal want to plan it? Or was he hoping someone else would plan it?

2 - Does the 6th still work? That's this Saturday.

 

So, as I sit here listening to the wind-driven rain pelting the side of the house, I am wondering about the usefulness of having this get together tomorrow. I realize that the whole point is that we would like to practice fire-making and talk about survival strategies so that if we find ourselves stranded in adverse conditions at some point we will be better prepared, but I also know that it would be beneficial for me, at least, to get some practice in under conditions where a newbie like myself has a decent chance of actually getting something to burn. Any other thoughts or opinions?

You might need your sunglasses.

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It looks like you guys had fun. Too bad the brigde was out! Those weren't cheesy supports either! That must has been a sight to see and I don't blame you at all, the river really rushes by fast there!

 

I sure wish I had checked this thread earlier, i'd have come along with you all. Dang it, I missed out on a good time. Let me know the next time you're in my neck of the woods!

 

Og

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Off Topic a bit, but grateful for suggestions.

 

I'm coordinating a homeschool program, and would like to incorporate some outdoor and survival skills. The kids range in age from 7-14. Does anyone have suggestions as to how to design a program, or what resources to use? I'm still alive, so I must be doing ~something~ right, but I am most certainly unqualified to teach anybody on this subject. Can teach anything, though, if I do the prep work and learn it well myself.

 

Failing that, do any of you want to come to Port Townsend and teach the kids for a couple of hours? I AM pretty good at sliding work onto others, and my group would hide a cache in advance in your honor. :D

 

Thanks in advance....

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Just a quick note on our discoveries of trying to start a fire out in the very wet woods...

 

1. The wood was wet and iced over. The ground was so saturated with water it was physically frozen with an ice layer an inch thick. What I'm saying is we really didn't do a good job starting a fire.

 

2. Tender - see #1. The saving grace was the spanish moss hanging about. It lights up really well, but you need a lot of it. Look for the light green-grey versus the dark green. It's drier. Look for twigs as a step up, pine or pitch. Cedar if you can find it will work if you shave enough bark off to get to the core. Otherwise, the bark will act as a layer between your fire and the wet or frozen ground and eventually will help build a coal base.

 

3. Fire starters work but only if you have the right amount to work for the conditions you're in. Magnesium bricks are probably the toughest to work with as you need to get enough shavings to make a good light up. I've read anything of a pile from a dime to a 50 cent piece will work. It's very light and can be easily blown out of its little pile of shavings by the slightest breeze. After 2 hours of trying that, I went to a pressed wax stick by Coleman. I had to feather the corner edges so it would light with my wind proof lighter. We also tried plastic and some other materials which would have worked had the wood we collected was dry enough to start burning.

 

4. Make sure you have enough tender to start, and again as much to feed into your started fire while you're trying to feed larger sized fuel into this pathetic little fire.

 

5. If I was 12, it would have been no problem what-so-ever to start that fire. :anicute:

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Just a quick note on our discoveries of trying to start a fire out in the very wet woods...

 

1. The wood was wet and iced over. The ground was so saturated with water it was physically frozen with an ice layer an inch thick. What I'm saying is we really didn't do a good job starting a fire.

 

2. Tender - see #1. The saving grace was the spanish moss hanging about. It lights up really well, but you need a lot of it. Look for the light green-grey versus the dark green. It's drier. Look for twigs as a step up, pine or pitch. Cedar if you can find it will work if you shave enough bark off to get to the core. Otherwise, the bark will act as a layer between your fire and the wet or frozen ground and eventually will help build a coal base.

 

3. Fire starters work but only if you have the right amount to work for the conditions you're in. Magnesium bricks are probably the toughest to work with as you need to get enough shavings to make a good light up. I've read anything of a pile from a dime to a 50 cent piece will work. It's very light and can be easily blown out of its little pile of shavings by the slightest breeze. After 2 hours of trying that, I went to a pressed wax stick by Coleman. I had to feather the corner edges so it would light with my wind proof lighter. We also tried plastic and some other materials which would have worked had the wood we collected was dry enough to start burning.

 

4. Make sure you have enough tender to start, and again as much to feed into your started fire while you're trying to feed larger sized fuel into this pathetic little fire.

 

5. If I was 12, it would have been no problem what-so-ever to start that fire. :anicute:

I took a NOLS outdoors class in Alaska where it rains a lot. The technique they taught us was to split a big piece of wood with a hatchet(we actually used wood washed up on the beach) so you can see the dry middle. Then shave off thin strips of wood, much like from a wood plane. You then split the left over wood to smaller sticks, about an inch square or less.The shavings burn hot enough to dry out the sticks. It takes quite awhile so once we tried the technique a few times we switched to using our stoves. :huh:
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Here are some of the things I learned during the outing.

 

1. Preparation is a very important step, don’t skip that one. We had a decent pile of various sized sticks so we didn’t have to dash around hunting for the proper size one for the next layer while our tinder was burning out.

2. Don’t arrive at a location intending to scavenge for the things you’ll need, instead, forage along the way. If you see good moss while you’re walking, gather it as you go.

3. Don’t be conservative with your tinder. The only way you’re going to get damp wood to burn is to dry it first. To do that you’ll need a (tinder) fire off sufficient size and duration to dry out the smaller stuff, which will dry out the larger stuff.

4. Don’t count on any one source of anything, and the simplest method is usually the most reliable. My butane lighter was acting flakey and wouldn’t light. My sparking tool worked great, but it wouldn’t spark off the damp tinder. My matches worked perfectly. The same goes for the tinder and the fuel wood.

5. We discussed the feasibility of creating some sort of heat reflector to keep the heat towards the center of the fire. Rocks would work, but if you use the larger sticks you’ve gathered, they’ll dry a little while reflecting the heat, two birds with one stone.

6. Practice practice practice…

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I'm sorry to repeat, but I ask again, is there a manual that I could follow to learn this stuff and thereby be able to teach it to kids? Boy Scout handbook? What? I've done some long distance hiking (6 months on the A.T.) and learned a few things through experience, but I'm still mostly hopeless. Well, I'm real familiar with lightening, bears and snakes. I just pretty much did everything else wrong and lived to tell about it. OK, I did bears wrong, too, but they didn't notice.

 

I understand the importance, but I have trouble getting those pressed fireplace logs to light in my fireplace. Start me somewhere, please, so that I can learn for myself and share with the kids.

 

Thanks.

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I took a NOLS outdoors class in Alaska where it rains a lot. The technique they taught us was to split a big piece of wood with a hatchet(we actually used wood washed up on the beach) so you can see the dry middle. Then shave off thin strips of wood, much like from a wood plane. You then split the left over wood to smaller sticks, about an inch square or less.The shavings burn hot enough to dry out the sticks. It takes quite awhile so once we tried the technique a few times we switched to using our stoves. :(

What I was trying to do first, was to work with my perceived conception of what I normally carried in my pack. A hatchet in my daypack is not normal for me to carry although I was certainly seeing then the advantage of having one to get past the iced layer. That didn't help me with my little Buck.

 

I might add, I was not adverse to pulling out my stove to cook my lunch and a cup of coffee. ;)

Edited by TotemLake
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I'm sorry to repeat, but I ask again, is there a manual that I could follow to learn this stuff and thereby be able to teach it to kids? Boy Scout handbook? What? I've done some long distance hiking (6 months on the A.T.) and learned a few things through experience, but I'm still mostly hopeless. Well, I'm real familiar with lightening, bears and snakes. I just pretty much did everything else wrong and lived to tell about it. OK, I did bears wrong, too, but they didn't notice.

 

I understand the importance, but I have trouble getting those pressed fireplace logs to light in my fireplace. Start me somewhere, please, so that I can learn for myself and share with the kids.

 

Thanks.

There are books out there that teach the theory. That's where a lot of our perceptions have come from. Actual practice though really brings home what can and can't be done. That's why we went out to do this. Currently we can't share what we don't know but we can share what didn't work really well.

 

Gathering tender along the way is a good start, but your pockets in these kinds of conditions aren't going to work really well to hold enough of what you need. I think I'm going to include into my daypack and little army diddy I have that can sling over my shoulder and act as a tender gathering bag.

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I'm sorry to repeat, but I ask again, is there a manual that I could follow to learn this stuff and thereby be able to teach it to kids? Boy Scout handbook? What? I've done some long distance hiking (6 months on the A.T.) and learned a few things through experience, but I'm still mostly hopeless. Well, I'm real familiar with lightening, bears and snakes. I just pretty much did everything else wrong and lived to tell about it. OK, I did bears wrong, too, but they didn't notice.

 

I understand the importance, but I have trouble getting those pressed fireplace logs to light in my fireplace. Start me somewhere, please, so that I can learn for myself and share with the kids.

 

Thanks.

There are books out there that teach the theory. That's where a lot of our perceptions have come from. Actual practice though really brings home what can and can't be done. That's why we went out to do this. Currently we can't share what we don't know but we can share what didn't work really well.

 

Gathering tender along the way is a good start, but your pockets in these kinds of conditions aren't going to work really well to hold enough of what you need. I think I'm going to include into my daypack and little army diddy I have that can sling over my shoulder and act as a tender gathering bag.

 

You say there are books out there. What book. What book would be a good place to start. Not just for lighting fires, but for outdoor skills in general. At a beginning level. Of course, if we were to read it, learn it, we'd then practice. Just start me from space #1.

 

Thanks~

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