Jump to content

Dogs


Beds Clangers
Followers 4

Recommended Posts

As someone who's never been bitten, yet has dealt with some aggressive dogs while caching, perhaps I can give a bit of advice. If a dog ever comes towards me I act as if s/he's my best friend, without actually giving him or her a hand to bite. I make playful fussing sorts of noises, as if his or her exposed teeth are all part of the game. I'm not sure if this calms the dog, or just confuses it enough so it fails to carry out its threats, but it works for me.

 

Agree .

 

I used to say "go away" in an aggressive voice to any dog that came bounding up to me ,but couple of years ago I changed tack and now say hello in the friendliest voice I can muster.

My thinking is most dogs would surely recognise the words "hello" as being a friendly gesture .

It seems to work better for me .... but I can't control what I smell like .

 

Oh .and if we are together me ol' man will try to be a distraction if he can ..who wants equality ? :laughing:

Link to comment

a barking dog does not equal an aggressive dog.

Let me guess: it's just being friendly, right? :laughing:

 

To return to Nick's original point, I'm very grateful to those who've posted suggestions for anti-dog devices - I didn't know such things existed. They all seem to be rather large: an ultrasonic transmitter should fit on a keyring, but if that's what's available... I've just ordered the Maplin one. Shame the devices aren't more severe, but let's see how I get on with this one.

Link to comment

By virtue of S.5 Firearms Act 1968, it makes Pepper Spray a prohibited weapon not just an offensive weapon which is why it's illegal to have it at home whereas it is not illegal to have an offensive weapon per se at home.

 

And if you are found in possession of one, you would be extraordinarily lucky to get away with just a caution (as quoted in a previous posting). More likely you will end up with a conviction for possessing a firearm..................

Link to comment

a barking dog does not equal an aggressive dog.

Let me guess: it's just being friendly, right? :laughing:

 

<snip>Shame the devices aren't more severe, but let's see how I get on with this one.

 

 

Dogs have a voice you know?! Can I politely suggest that you learn a bit more (anything even) about dogs before making such evil comments?

Link to comment

If anyone knows where I can buy an anti-alanwhite device, please let me know. If he intends to approach all dogs with his anti-dog device ready for unprovoked use I'd rather not be near him.

I won't use it unprovoked. I'll only use it if a dog comes near to me (or a member of my family) and is not on a lead.

 

Sorry, I can't help with your prospective purchase. I didn't even know there were anti-dog devices until this thread. The fact that they exist at least proves that I'm not the only person who feels this way.

Link to comment

If anyone knows where I can buy an anti-alanwhite device, please let me know. If he intends to approach all dogs with his anti-dog device ready for unprovoked use I'd rather not be near him.

I won't use it unprovoked. I'll only use it if a dog comes near to me (or a member of my family) and is not on a lead.

 

Sorry, I can't help with your prospective purchase. I didn't even know there were anti-dog devices until this thread. The fact that they exist at least proves that I'm not the only person who feels this way.

 

Shhheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!

 

So all it will take is a dog coming near you off lead? Do me a favour, DON'T do any of my caches, most of them are near my home, and I frequently walk my dog off lead in the areas where my caches are sited.

Link to comment

If anyone knows where I can buy an anti-alanwhite device, please let me know. If he intends to approach all dogs with his anti-dog device ready for unprovoked use I'd rather not be near him.

 

Ladysolly and I each carry a whistle (Acme Thunderer), which either of us can use to summon help in case of emergencies - I think the idea of carrying a whistle is one that is recommended in outdoors activities. And a mobile phone (one between us).

 

This question did remind me about a device that some people might find useful.

 

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/3015.htm

 

I use one of these in my datacenter as a "POWER JUST WENT OUT" alarm. It's able to wake me from a deep sleep in the middle of the night (and has done a couple of times in the last several years). I can confirm that it's so loud, you wouldn't want to be within a few yards of it. for more than a couple of seconds. Add a switch and a battery, and I'd think it would deter any human from being nearby, while at the same time, acting as an alarm that would hopefully attract help. It's 110 decibels, and it is LOUD!!!

 

Dorsetgal might be interested in getting one (or something similar), given the experiences she's recounted earlier in this thread; it would greatly deter an attacker, plus could be used to call for help when she has a mobility problem while caching. Geodog is obviously a very intelligent and helpful (and good-looking) dog, but dogs do have limitations.

 

Other people might also be interested, perhaps.

Link to comment

So all it will take is a dog coming near you off lead?

You make it sound as though the device will physically injure the dog. Obviously I haven't yet seen or heard the device, so I can only quote Maplin's website:

This device projects ultrasonic waves, which are hardly audible to humans, but cause discomfort (my emphasis) to dogs. This means that, when you use this item, you will be able to establish a safe zone between you and the unfriendly dog.

Establishing a safe zone is my immediate concern.

Link to comment

So all it will take is a dog coming near you off lead?

You make it sound as though the device will physically injure the dog. Obviously I haven't yet seen or heard the device, so I can only quote Maplin's website:

This device projects ultrasonic waves, which are hardly audible to humans, but cause discomfort (my emphasis) to dogs. This means that, when you use this item, you will be able to establish a safe zone between you and the unfriendly dog.

Establishing a safe zone is my immediate concern.

 

Even Maplins state unfriendly dog, by your criteria you are going to use it on any off lead dog in close proximity.

 

Like I said earlier in the thread, these devices have only been shown to not physically harm the dog.

Link to comment

I won't use it unprovoked. I'll only use it if a dog comes near to me (or a member of my family) and is not on a lead.

 

Do me a favour - don't do any of our caches either. It has taken us eight months to get smudge to trust people and come close to them after a lifetime of abuse. I would hate for all that work to be undone by some ***** (rhymes with duckwhit) who will needlessly attack any dog who happens to be walking along the same path as them.

 

Shame the devices aren't more severe,

You could just carry a penknife and stab them in the eyes.

Link to comment

Shame the devices aren't more severe, but let's see how I get on with this one.

 

Huh :laughing:

 

such as what? a baseball bat with nails in it? I can't believe I just read that on here....

Sigh. Why do dog lovers have to react so aggressively to another person's desire to protect themselves?

 

To clarify (and I accept that severe probably wasn't the best choice of word), all the devices suggested here have a very limited range: just a few metres. I'd like a device that would keep a dog much further away than that.

 

And there remains the question of what to do when the dog isn't discouraged by the device.

Link to comment

Even Maplins state unfriendly dog, by your criteria you are going to use it on any off lead dog in close proximity.

What would you have me do? Wait to receive the same fate as Nick?

 

Like I said earlier in the thread, these devices have only been shown to not physically harm the dog.

So we agree there's no problem with their use, then?

 

Please don't misunderstand me. We clearly are never going to agree on dogs. The original question was "what can one do to protect oneself?". One of the useful outcomes of the discussion has been to identify these devices. They sound good (no pun intended) so I've bought one. Obviously having bought one I'm planning to use it when appropriate. Where I think we disagree is in what we consider to be appropriate. But I'm certainly not going to wait until the dog bites me to find out whether it's "just being friendly".

Link to comment

 

Dorsetgal might be interested in getting one (or something similar), given the experiences she's recounted earlier in this thread; it would greatly deter an attacker, plus could be used to call for help when she has a mobility problem while caching. Geodog is obviously a very intelligent and helpful (and good-looking) dog, but dogs do have limitations.

 

 

No thanks, I am not at all interested in carrying one of these, nor one of the weapons you have previously mentioned in this thread.

 

I'll take my chances, keep things in perspective and take things for the isolated occurrences that they clearly are. If I worried about everything that might happen to me in a lifetime, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. You might do well to do the same.

Link to comment

...The illustration was used to explain to drsolly that a barking dog does not equal an aggressive dog.

 

Dogs can and do bark joyously at times, as a dog owner yourself, I would have thought you would have understood that!

 

The issue is the perception of fear. Barking & growling have tones to them if you know what they are. Not everone will.

 

As for the pepperspray, interesting law. What exactly can a person use to fend off a dog that's easy to carry and doesn't involve using one of your arms as a decoy while you root around for a branch to beat the dog with?

Link to comment

....No thanks, I am not at all interested in carrying one of these, nor one of the weapons you have previously mentioned in this thread.

 

I'll take my chances, keep things in perspective and take things for the isolated occurrences that they clearly are. If I worried about everything that might happen to me in a lifetime, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. You might do well to do the same.

 

It's your choice to not carry anything. It's also your choice to get out of bed and not worry about everthing that might happen to you. That's why they invented the Emergency Room and bandaids. However odds are you also take more precautions as you go about your life than you think you do. Things like cut away from your body, dressing for the weather, putting your dog on a lead and so on.

 

You would do well to afford others the security they seek as just having it would help with dogs. Dogs do sence your state of mind.

Link to comment

Even Maplins state unfriendly dog, by your criteria you are going to use it on any off lead dog in close proximity.

What would you have me do? Wait to receive the same fate as Nick?

 

Like I said earlier in the thread, these devices have only been shown to not physically harm the dog.

So we agree there's no problem with their use, then?

 

 

Alrighty then, let's wait for the day when Master White comes home full of woe because he has been verbally abused, harassed and generally upset by the bully boys on the block, simply because he walked too close to them.

 

You won't have even the slightest drop of compassion for him, cos like you said, they haven't done any physical harm, have they?

 

You would do better to educate rather than arm yourself, and while you're at it, lead by example so that another generation doesn't take the same bigoted attitude.

Link to comment

Even Maplins state unfriendly dog, by your criteria you are going to use it on any off lead dog in close proximity.

What would you have me do? Wait to receive the same fate as Nick?

 

Like I said earlier in the thread, these devices have only been shown to not physically harm the dog.

So we agree there's no problem with their use, then?

 

 

Alrighty then, let's wait for the day when Master White comes home full of woe because he has been verbally abused, harassed and generally upset by the bully boys on the block, simply because he walked too close to them.

 

You won't have even the slightest drop of compassion for him, cos like you said, they haven't done any physical harm, have they?

 

You would do better to educate rather than arm yourself, and while you're at it, lead by example so that another generation doesn't take the same bigoted attitude.

 

You would do best to educate and arm yourself, but you wont see the logic of that. You are also comparing bully boys to familys who don't go out of their way to harrass dogs. In my area the dogs that get harrased are the slobbering variety that throw themselves against the fence to attack whoever is on the other side. It's always gives me a good start to be walking along and then the fence shudders from the blow of the dog. No I would not feel sorry for that dog if he's zapped. That said, actual bully boys harrasing a dog deserve a little turnabout but we are not discussing bully boys, but regular cachers being attacked and what you can do.

 

In one regard we have given the same advice. Learn about dogs.

Link to comment

...The illustration was used to explain to drsolly that a barking dog does not equal an aggressive dog.

 

Dogs can and do bark joyously at times, as a dog owner yourself, I would have thought you would have understood that!

 

The issue is the perception of fear. Barking & growling have tones to them if you know what they are. Not everone will.

 

The problem here is one of understanding that the discussion was about barking dogs, you were the first person to talk about barking and growling.

 

I have no dispute that there are dogs who bark and growl, the issue was however,<sighs, as I know I have said this already> to help people understand a barking dog is not an agressive dog by definition.

 

Just as a shouting person is not necessarily angry.

Link to comment

....The problem here is one of understanding that the discussion was about barking dogs, you were the first person to talk about barking and growling.

 

I have no dispute that there are dogs who bark and growl, the issue was however,<sighs, as I know I have said this already> to help people understand a barking dog is not an agressive dog by definition.

 

Just as a shouting person is not necessarily angry.

 

I had thought the issue was one of what to do to defend yourself from a dog that is going to attack. You rasied the issue that not all dogs are going to attack, we both have said you should learn about dog behavior.

 

Perhaps a better question for you is this. Given that someone at some time may missunderstand your dogs intent and fear your dog will attack what would you have them defend themselves with? By defend yourself I mean put the dog out of commission or make it so the dog immediatly leaves.

Link to comment

 

Perhaps a better question for you is this. Given that someone at some time may missunderstand your dogs intent and fear your dog will attack what would you have them defend themselves with?

 

I wouldn't have them arm themselves with anything, firstly it woud not be necessary and secondly there is nothing on the market that I know of that is absolutely physically safe and will absolutely guarantee not to emotionally upset such a sensitive and caring dog. I entrust my life into the paws of this particular dog on a daily basis, if you had asked about other dogs my answer would have been different.

 

Read further up in this thread to see what he did at a time of extreme provocation.

Link to comment

For someone who only meets 1 in a hundred responsible owners Mr White must be exceptionally lucky because he hasn't been attacked yet.....also, hasn't he heard of dog wardens, part of whose job it is to deal with such unsavoury owners. Also be careful because the soon to be law Animal Welfare Act could deal with such people who think it is OK to use any device on a dog who isn't being threatening to anyone. Unlike many kids of today...........

No-one has yet mentioned the fact that someone lurking in the undergrowth, poking about, could actually make other people wary / wondering what you are doing. If they get worried / concerned for their safety, this will transmit to their dogs, who will naturally want to defend their owners. I have previously given in this thread some advice that could be considered which would not harm.

If anyone used one of these devices on our dogs, -esp the one who has been subjected to human abuse for over 3 years- they would find it where the sun don't shine. Animals have much more to fear from humans (especially bigoted ones) than vice versa.

So Mr White, as Chris said, don't come near any of our caches, as most are on our favourite dog walking routes. Dog friendly people very welcome of course.

Edited by Chris n Maria
Link to comment

What exactly can a person use to fend off a dog that's easy to carry and doesn't involve using one of your arms as a decoy while you root around for a branch to beat the dog with?

 

Equip yourself with an elementary knowledge of how to deal with a dog. I dunno anything about the electronic gizmos, but I do know some really simple basics about dogs.

 

Remember that dogs are simply wolves which have been selectively bred, cross-bred and inbred by mankind for something like 40,000 years. They have deliberately had the adulthood bred out of their wolf nature and have been bred to be perpetual puppies. Most of their behaviour is simply a trained form of play. Often, especially with larger dogs, this play can be misunderstood as aggression, even when it's not.

 

For real cases of unprovoked aggression, use a basic knowledge of Dog to handle the situation. Use some basic knowledge of predictable behaviour. For example, a dog will usually (mis)interpret a stare from a human, or another strange dog, as a sign of aggression. Simple remedy: don't look directly at the dog, even if you are saying placating things like "nice doggie, good doggie".

 

Turn perpendicular to the dog and look away, keeping the dog within your peripheral vision. Use an understanding of the wolf side of the animal's instinctive behaviour to predict its next move. It will almost certainly move around you to get behind you. That's a wolf thing which is deeply ingrained in its instinctive behaviour. Use a knowledge of how wolves behave to predict which direction the dog will go. If the owner/handler is to one side, the dog will go around you to the opposite side. Think tactically to defend yourself if this is a truly aggressive dog which is preparing a full attack.

 

Almost by definition, if a dog is attacking an innocent bystander or passer by, the owner/handler is incompetent and/or negligent. Nevertheless, don't remonstrate with the feckless owner, despite the fact that situation is entirely their fault. The dog will instantly perceive that its pack leader is under attack and will counter-attack. I suspect that this scenario is Alan White's problem. Because Alan White perceives that 99% of dog owners are feckless, his own body language and tone of voice is perceived by any dog as being aggressive or hostile to the owner/handler and the dog reacts accordingly.

 

What to do in the worst case? If a dog really is attacking you, ie starting to bite, don't use a stick to beat the dog. Instead, do what policemen are trained to do with their baton in that situation. Insert your stick between the dog's collar and neck, then twist. This will 'stop' the dog instantly. The amount of twist will determine the dog's immediate future.

 

In the worst possible case, with an attacking dog's fangs sunk into your leg or forearm, you have little choice but to bring the animal's life to a rapid close. The method for doing this which is taught in advanced training to UK land forces is quite simply to grab one of the dog' lower forelegs in each hand and rapidly splay the legs as far apart as you can with full force. This has the grievous effect of driving the animal's shoulder blades into the upper ribcage, disrupting the heart/lung configuration which terminates the dog. Not something which one is ever likely to have to do in this country, fortunately.

Link to comment

Mr White must be exceptionally lucky because he hasn't been attacked yet

And you know this how?

 

.....also, hasn't he heard of dog wardens, part of whose job it is to deal with such unsavoury owners.

Not too many of them monitoring the country footpaths, I expect.

 

Also be careful because the soon to be law Animal Welfare Act could deal with such people who think it is OK to use any device on a dog who isn't being threatening to anyone.

Typical of this country. Thinks it more important to protect animals than people. I'm beginning to understand how Tony Martin felt.

 

Dog friendly people very welcome of course.

And you call me bigoted....

 

Anyway, I've reported this post for its intimidatory and threatening nature, so no doubt the thread will get closed soon.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Followers 4
×
×
  • Create New...