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About a year ago I was badly bitten by a dog while placing a cache, long story, but dog in question is no more :laughing:

 

Today, while trying to get rid of a TB at one of my own caches, guess what?? I was again attacked and bitten on both legs and my hand by another dog.

 

This time it was a black labrador off its lead and it just went totally crazy when it saw me. I stood still, with my hands in my pockets and only after it bit my leg did I react, it then bit my hand!!! Owner was totally shocked and gave me all their details which I've given to the police who will follow this up.

 

Now have three dogs bites, left leg just below my knee, right leg on my shin and by far the most painful, left hand thumb area. Been to A&E and for good measure they stuck a very large needle in my backside!!!

 

OK, THIS IS NOT AN ANTI DOG POST, but is there anything I can do to make myself less likey to dog attacks and what SHOULD OR CAN I do to defend myself?

 

As a cat owner, is this the reason and should I simple give all dogs a very wide berth?

 

I have now thought about a can of pepper spray but not sure if they are legal in the UK?

 

Regards

 

Nick, sitting on half a chair typing with one hand :anitongue:

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Sorry to hear about your encounter today. Had a quick look on Google and found this.

 

'The Dog Dazer weighs less than four and a half ounces (130g) and is compact in size: 4.5 x 2 x 1.3inches (11.5 x 5 x 3.5cm). It is made of tough plastic and has a steel clip to fit on a belt for easy access. It works at distances up to about fifteen feet (5 metres). Using it is simple - point it at a threatening dog and press the button on the top of the Dazer for a few seconds. (A red LED light indicates that the Dazer is functioning properly.) If an aggressive dog is approaching you, it will usually stop, make a detour or retreat.

Full details for use are provided with the Dog Dazer, which must be used in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, cautions and warnings. (It is not designed to be effective against all dogs and should not be used with animals that are docile, infirm - or with highly trained animals such as police dogs nor, as mentioned above, friendly pets.) But as regards nasty animals, we have had many letters from users who have reported how effective the Dog Dazer has been when they have come up against unpleasant dogs while walking in Greece, Spain and other southern European destinations. However, there can be the occasional exception. If a dog is deaf, for example, the Dog Dazer is not effective. We mention this because it is simply not possible to guarantee the product will work in every conceivable circumstance. However, we have had sufficient feedback from users of the product who have purchased from us, to know that it does work and can be a godsend when one is confronted by an aggressive animal. Perhaps the best recommendation we can give it is to mention that in the UK, Dog Dazer is regularly used by Royal Mail, the police, doctors, vets, gas and electricity companies, and many local authorities.

 

HOW TO ORDER

The price within the UK, which includes first class postage and packing, battery and V.A.T. is £38.95. Please send orders by post, enclosing a cheque or money order - this item is always in stock and your order will normally be sent by return of post. Send orders to Sunflower Books, PO Box 115, Exeter EX2 6YU, making your cheque or money order or postal order payable to Sunflower Books. If you wish to order online, use the option shown in the next paragraph (Destinations in Europe) but please be aware that the online price is £42.00 for UK or Europe.'

 

This is maybe what you need, easier than carying a piece of 4 x2!!

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Nick, how awful for you, I hope your wounds will heal soon.

 

This sounds like very unusual behaviour for a Labrador, but I appreciate that is no consolation now.

 

It sounds like you did all the right sort of things when the dog approached you, although it is difficult in such a situation, I would just add, don't make eye to eye contact with the dog, and try and look as uninterested as possible ... although I appreciate by the time it has bitten you once, this is impossible.

 

To be honest, I very much doubt that the fact you own a cat is why this happened, it sounds like two very unfortunate, most probably unrelated incidents.

 

That said, I also appreciate, you are now going to possibly be very alert whenever dogs approach, try not to let them smell fear, as the bully boys of the dog world will take advantage.

 

If it would help, try carrying one of these, with you, perfectly legal in the UK and less harmful that a pepper spray.

 

Just out of interest, do you hapen to know the sex of the offending animal? Also, if male, neutered or intact?

 

For anyone wanting to educate children how to avoid unpleasant interractions with dogs, the Kennel Club have a really good safe and sound website.

 

I hope the wounds heal soon!

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I had a dog run up to me a few weeks ago, and bark at me, and make little mock attacks, very aggressively. I just stiood still, waiting for it to go away, which it did. Then the owner came up, and explained that the problem was that I was wearing a hat. Apparently, the dog always does that to people wearing hats.

 

I didn't make the obvious retort.

 

But if that dog had done more than just bark at me, like actually attack, I would have belted it with my walking pole, and if that hadn't done the trick, the next step would have been stabbing the dog. I'd be willing to argue that it was self-defence.

 

Ladysolly has been jumped on and slobbered over by a dog on one walk we were on. It ruined the whole day for her.

 

I don't think you can give dogs a wide berth. When walking on public paths, you'll often encounter people walking dogs, with the dogs off the lead, and the dogs come up to you. I don't much mind being looked at and sniffed, I really don't like being barked at aggressively when the dog is off the lead, I really hate being jumped up at. And I'd go apes*** if I got bitten.

 

I quite like your pepper spray idea.I'll suggest that to ladysolly. Maybe one could use that without permanent damage to the dog, so you don't have to wait until the dog has it's teeth sunk into your leg?

 

What do dog owners think about this - does a pepper spray permanently hurt a dog, does it act as a provocation (I'd hate to turn a friendly albeit barking dog into an attacker)? And is it legal to carry such a thing, provided your intention is to only use it in self-defence?

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I suspect you've just been very very unlucky Nick. It's no consolation but I've never been bitten by a dog - but there again, perhaps I've just been very very lucky.

 

One possibility is your cats, who leave their scent on your clothes and hands. Did the dogs give you a sniff before attacking, or did they just go for you? Actually, if the attacks came from 'down wind', the question's irrelevant, but it's still a theory.

 

I hope you heal fast and your luck improves sharpish!

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I was once bitten by a dog in SW India.And have had a couple of scares with monkeys too. :anitongue: As animals can smell your fear, I do recommend it may be a good idea to carry some sort of protection.Somthing non harmful to the animal seems a good idea,but (sorry if this offends)..a good hiking/trekking pole may serve you better.

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About a year ago I was badly bitten by a dog while placing a cache, long story, but dog in question is no more :anitongue:

 

Today, while trying to get rid of a TB at one of my own caches, guess what?? I was again attacked and bitten on both legs and my hand by another dog.

 

OK, THIS IS NOT AN ANTI DOG POST, but is there anything I can do to make myself less likey to dog attacks and what SHOULD OR CAN I do to defend myself?

 

 

Sympathies from us .

 

Googled when I read your posting and found this site .

 

news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_5370000/newsid_5379000/5379062.stm

 

Usefull info for me who gets wary around dogs I don't know,though I,ve never been bitten .

Strange me ol' man ,who isn't wary ,was bitten as a child .

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This is very bad news for dogs and dogs owners alike, I am sorry this has happened to you.

 

As animals can smell your fear

I believe that this is true, and I always present the back of my hand and say hello to any dogs that come running up to me. If I think that a dog is about to attack, I will stamp my feet towards it, and shout extremely loudly. For me this has always worked and the dog checks it's approach. If they haven't done something already, I then say something to the owner about getting it under control.

 

You must be wary about using anything like pepper spray, one of my dogs may bark at you if you are carrying a stick or ball. This doesn't mean he wants to bite you, but only play. I know it's difficult to tell the difference, but you have to prove that to the police when the owner wants you charged, and you haven't actually been attacked.

 

In all it's a very grey area, so frightening the dog away in my opinion is the best approach, if it keeps coming, then a harsher approach may be justified!

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I've never been bitten by a dog, but I'm not a big fan of them. About one dog in 10 seems to be well-behaved - meaning, able to function in human society, including the default setting of "sit there and don't worry the kids" - which I put down to excellent, caring owners. The rest... well, don't get me started.

 

Anyway, when one runs up to me - its owner usually shouting at it to desist, in English or French or some other language which is *a bit too advanced for dogs* - I just stand stock still and place my hands on top of my head (much as if I was being arrested by armed police). I reckon that bites out of my legs will heal but sectioned fingers are tough to put back on, especially if they've been chewed. Maybe that will help you next time, Nick.

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Sorry to hear that you have been attacked by a dog, and for the second time. I hope you heal real soon.

 

Dont think this will help, but here goes anyway.

I used to be a cat person and had loads of prob with dog . Never bitten but very close. Since ive had a dog i dont seem to have any probs even when out running with or with out Alfie, You just have to get use to them something i dont suppose you want to do at the moment.

They are wild animals and the owner responsibility and i could not be with out mine.

Get well soon

Hodge

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About a year ago I was badly bitten by a dog while placing a cache, long story, but dog in question is no more :laughing:

 

Today, while trying to get rid of a TB at one of my own caches, guess what?? I was again attacked and bitten on both legs and my hand by another dog.

 

This time it was a black labrador off its lead and it just went totally crazy when it saw me. I stood still, with my hands in my pockets and only after it bit my leg did I react, it then bit my hand!!! Owner was totally shocked and gave me all their details which I've given to the police who will follow this up.

 

Now have three dogs bites, left leg just below my knee, right leg on my shin and by far the most painful, left hand thumb area. Been to A&E and for good measure they stuck a very large needle in my backside!!!

 

OK, THIS IS NOT AN ANTI DOG POST, but is there anything I can do to make myself less likey to dog attacks and what SHOULD OR CAN I do to defend myself?

 

As a cat owner, is this the reason and should I simple give all dogs a very wide berth?

 

I have now thought about a can of pepper spray but not sure if they are legal in the UK?

 

Regards

 

Nick, sitting on half a chair typing with one hand :anitongue:

Link to comment

About a year ago I was badly bitten by a dog while placing a cache, long story, but dog in question is no more :laughing:

 

Today, while trying to get rid of a TB at one of my own caches, guess what?? I was again attacked and bitten on both legs and my hand by another dog.

 

This time it was a black labrador off its lead and it just went totally crazy when it saw me. I stood still, with my hands in my pockets and only after it bit my leg did I react, it then bit my hand!!! Owner was totally shocked and gave me all their details which I've given to the police who will follow this up.

 

Now have three dogs bites, left leg just below my knee, right leg on my shin and by far the most painful, left hand thumb area. Been to A&E and for good measure they stuck a very large needle in my backside!!!

 

OK, THIS IS NOT AN ANTI DOG POST, but is there anything I can do to make myself less likey to dog attacks and what SHOULD OR CAN I do to defend myself?

 

As a cat owner, is this the reason and should I simple give all dogs a very wide berth?

 

I have now thought about a can of pepper spray but not sure if they are legal in the UK?

 

Regards

 

Nick, sitting on half a chair typing with one hand :anitongue:

 

Stop wearing the clanger suit when you are caching!

Tee Hee

 

either that or get your own dog

 

:laughing:

Bob

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Sorry to hear that you've been attacked again, Nick... :anitongue:

I was attacked whilst out caching a couple of years ago. That dog was subsequently destroyed... and dam right too.

 

There a lot of 'Dog Law' here that may be of interest.

 

This bit from The Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 & Dogs Act 1871 seems relevant

 

QUOTE:

2. If a dog is dangerously out of control in a public place, or a private place where it is not permitted to be, the owner; and if different, the person for the time being in charge of the dog, is guilty of an offence.

 

"A dog shall be regarded as dangerously out of control on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or not it actually does so."

 

In the case of Briscoe -v- Shattock QBD 12 October 1998 it was held that a dog could be considered "dangerous" and "not kept under proper control" within the meaning of Section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871, even if the only danger shown was to other dogs, and not to humans. Being dangerous reflected the dog's disposition not his acts.

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<snip>

 

I really don't like being barked at aggressively when the dog is off the lead, I really hate being jumped up at. And I'd go apes*** if I got bitten.

 

<snip>

 

I quite like your pepper spray idea.I'll suggest that to ladysolly. Maybe one could use that without permanent damage to the dog, so you don't have to wait until the dog has it's teeth sunk into your leg?

 

What do dog owners think about this - does a pepper spray permanently hurt a dog, does it act as a provocation (I'd hate to turn a friendly albeit barking dog into an attacker)? And is it legal to carry such a thing, provided your intention is to only use it in self-defence?

 

I wonder how you define an aggressive bark?

 

I think I would be absolutely furious if you carried a pepper spray with you and used it on my dog because you thought it was barking aggressively at you.

 

Pepper spray should not be used by the inexperienced in any circumstances, and I would counsel against it being used willy nilly because of peceived danger, particularly against an animal. :laughing:

 

My dog occasionally barks and charges around while off the lead, are you going to pepper spray him if our paths cross? I would hope not. :anitongue:

 

There are many reasons dogs bark, taking one aspect of a dogs communication and trying to interpret it in isolation will invariably end you up in trouble. It is far better to look at the whole picture of the body language of the whole dog. :laughing:

Edited by Dorsetgal & GeoDog
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<<I wonder how you define an aggressive bark?>>

 

It's when the dog is barking at me, and making little rushes at me, and generally acting like it thinks I'm a possible attack target. Or at least, that's what it's making me think. An unaggressive bark is when the dog is barking, but isn't anywhere near me.

 

<<I think I would be absolutely furious if you carried a pepper spray with you and used it on my dog because you thought it was barking aggressively at you.

 

Pepper spray should not be used by the inexperienced in any circumstances, and I would counsel against it being used willy nilly because of peceived danger, particularly against an animal. :laughing:

 

My dog occasionally barks and charges around while off the lead, are you going to pepper spray him if our paths cross? I would hope not. :anitongue:

 

There are many reasons dogs bark, taking one aspect of a dogs communication and trying to interpret it in isolation will invariably end you up in trouble. It is far better to look at the whole picture of the body language of the whole dog. :laughing:>>

 

I don't speak dog. I don't understand a dog's body language. I don't own a dog. Surely it's the responsibility of the dog owner to do all that, not mine?

 

See my subsequent post - I've gotten a "Dog dazer", which is high pitched sound. And yes, I will use it. It doesn't hurt the dog at all.. I'm not planning to get a pepper spray, unless someone here makes a good case for one.

 

Another defence I've used while out walking, when two dogs bounded up in an excited way, was to yell "Down" at them. One of them actually did go down, and looked very surprised, and watched me as we walked away. The other one found something else to do.

 

But don't you think it's the dog owner's responsibility to have the dog on a lead if the dog often rushes up to people and barks at them, or likes to jump up on strangers? You might know that your large dog with sharp teeth is just being friendly or playful, but the only way the stranger is going to find out, is by not being bitten. And, as you saw from the OP, some dogs do bite. Waiting to find out if a particular dog is a biter or not, isn't something that dog owners should inflict on other walkers.

 

I hope Nick gets better soon. And I hope I've learned from his misfortune and don't get bitten by a dog that I was hoping was "just a barker".

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I've had my fair share of close calls with dogs whilst out caching.

I was bitten several times by dogs in my childhood, and have always been wary of them.

 

Several owners have used the defense "oh he thinks you'll have a dog walking with you" - even had one snotty owner questioning why I was out walking alone, assuming I was up to no good.

 

Might get an ultrasonic device; and see if it works on Cows too!

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Thankfully, I have never been bitten by an agressive dog, and I hope it stays this way. I have however, been barked at with curled lips (the dog, not me!) and it really is a frightening experience.

 

I don't think overly-freindly dogs are any better, and are in need of just as much training. I do not enjoy being jumped up at by an excited dog with big muddy, and often sharp claws while on a nice stroll.

 

If I do meet a well behaved dog on walks, and I do want to give the dog a pet or stroke, I will always ask the owner before hand, just to be safe.

 

It is a shame that the necessary action is sometimes needed when a dog attacks somebody unprovoked, but it is better than a child getting mauled by the same dog later on.

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<<I wonder how you define an aggressive bark?>>

 

It's when the dog is barking at me, and making little rushes at me, and generally acting like it thinks I'm a possible attack target. Or at least, that's what it's making me think. An unaggressive bark is when the dog is barking, but isn't anywhere near me.

 

Well I would beg to differ, but hey I am one of those awful dog owners aren't I? Simply because a dog barks in proximity to you does not make it an agressive bark, nor does it make it an aggressive dog.

 

In an emergency, my dog would rush up to someone and bark to alert them; an example of the emergency being me unconscious around the next bend, God forbid he tries to alert someone and gets Dazed for his trouble!

 

I don't speak dog. I don't understand a dog's body language. I don't own a dog. Surely it's the responsibility of the dog owner to do all that, not mine?

 

Yes, that was abundantly evident in your first post, and if you scroll up you will see that I put a useful link about how to interpret the signs. If your logic is followed then on the roads it is a drivers job to avoid you and you shouldn't learn the Green Cross Code, or the Highway Code, in fact forest rangers should do their job and remove all the poisonous snakes before you come through, and all the canals and rivers drained in case you happen to be passing by. Please! In the time it took you to make those two posts you could have read up on signs of situations likely to result in a dog bite incident and been much wiser.

 

 

See my subsequent post - I've gotten a "Dog dazer", which is high pitched sound. And yes, I will use it. It doesn't hurt the dog at all.. I'm not planning to get a pepper spray, unless someone here makes a good case for one.

 

I hope you will use it responsibly, read and obey the instructions and use it absolutely as a last resort ... many dogs have extremely sensitive hearing and yes, you could cause damage, even if it doesn't say so on the box, so in extreme circumstances only. I hope you have really purchased it to enhance your own confidence and not really with the intent on using on every dog that happens to bark near you.

 

I have only ever seen claims that the dazer does not do physical harm ... you should be aware of the potential of causing other harm with it.

 

Like it or not, dog walking is a legitimate occupation in the countryside and you will encounter dogs, it may well be worth a few minutes of your time to gen up on dog body language, I am sure you would benefit, if only by reducing your perceived vulnerability.

 

Also, it would pay to remember, dogs are owned by people, and you can always call to someone to control their dog. That is always my first reaction if I see any situation getting out of hand, which is rare. A simple "recall your dog please" can and does work, agreed, not every time, but it is a useful first defence.

 

Sadly, just as their are irresponsible people in every walk of life, there will be irresponsible dog owners too, but it pays to remember, in spite of what you hear, unprovoked dog bites like in this case, are thankfully extremely rare.

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<<Well I would beg to differ, but hey I am one of those awful dog owners aren't I? Simply because a dog barks in proximity to you does not make it an agressive bark, nor does it make it an aggressive dog.>>

 

I'm sure you're an excellent dog owner. Sadly, a few are not. A recent example:

 

We were out caching, and the footpath led through a hillside which was being grazed by sheep. As we walked along, we saw a loose dog, playing (I'm guessing that was the dog's point of view) with the sheep. The owner just didn't seem to care.

 

<<In an emergency, my dog would rush up to someone and bark to alert them; an example of the emergency being me unconscious around the next bend, God forbid he tries to alert someone and gets Dazed for his trouble!>>

 

I do think I can tell the difference between a "Timmy's fallen down the old well" bark, and a teeth-showing, snarling, growling "For two ha'pennies I'd rip your leg off" bark. To some extent. I certainly don't claim expertise.

 

I don't speak dog. I don't understand a dog's body language. I don't own a dog. Surely it's the responsibility of the dog owner to do all that, not mine?

 

<<Yes, that was abundantly evident in your first post, and if you scroll up you will see that I put a useful link about how to interpret the signs. If your logic is followed then on the roads it is a drivers job to avoid you and you shouldn't learn the Green Cross Code, or the Highway Code, in fact forest rangers should do their job and remove all the poisonous snakes before you come through, and all the canals and rivers drained in case you happen to be passing by. Please! In the time it took you to make those two posts you could have read up on signs of situations likely to result in a dog bite incident and been much wiser.>>

 

I tried the link. It didn't work with my system. Do you have a link to something that I can just read, rather than what I'm guessing is a show-and-tell aimed at educating young children?

 

<<I hope you will use it responsibly, read and obey the instructions and use it absolutely as a last resort ... many dogs have extremely sensitive hearing and yes, you could cause damage, even if it doesn't say so on the box, so in extreme circumstances only. I hope you have really purchased it to enhance your own confidence and not really with the intent on using on every dog that happens to bark near you.>>

 

I do plan to read the instructions. I didn't get it to enhance my confidence, I got it as a dog deterrent. I don't plan to use it irresponsibly. I hope I never use it at all.

 

<<I have only ever seen claims that the dazer does not do physical harm ... you should be aware of the potential of causing other harm with it. >>

 

The advertisement says "Completely harmless to animals". Presumably, the manual with the device will warn me of any potential for harm, although since their advertisement says "completely harmless", maybe they won't. I notice, by the way, that you also recommended a "dog stop", which makes 120db of sound; why is this something you recommend, yet you're against the Dazer?

 

<<Like it or not, dog walking is a legitimate occupation in the countryside and you will encounter dogs, it may well be worth a few minutes of your time to gen up on dog body language, I am sure you would benefit, if only by reducing your perceived vulnerability.>>

 

I certainly agree that dog walking is a perfectly legitimate activity, and I don't plan to attack any dogs that I see when I'm out! But Nick's experience has made me think.

 

<<Also, it would pay to remember, dogs are owned by people, and you can always call to someone to control their dog.>>

 

No, you can't. Not always. When the dog is off the lead, it can run so far ahead of the owner that you can't see them or call to them (that's what happened with the dog that was upset by my wearing a hat [that was what the owner explained to me]). In another incident, two dogs bounded up and started barking at us (on a public footpath). No owner was anywhere around. Those were the dogs that responded to my yell of "DOWN". Also, some people can't actually control their dogs. Not everyone is a good and responsible dog owner.

 

<<Sadly, just as their are irresponsible people in every walk of life, there will be irresponsible dog owners too, but it pays to remember, in spite of what you hear, unprovoked dog bites like in this case, are thankfully extremely rare.>>

 

Indeed. And my first line of defence is to stand still and let the dog realise that I'm not a problem; my second line of defence is to yell "DOWN" at the dog. Please tell me if I'm doing completely the wrong thing here. I do like dogs!

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I really feel for Nick and any other person who has been attacked by a dog. I can also understand people being wary of dogs. But I am afraid that being a loving dog owner, reading this thread is making me angry and annoyed at the ignorance of some people.

 

I know that there are bad dogs and owners out there, but please don't tar us all with the same brush. Put it into some perspective. How many dogs do you actually see when out, and how many turn out to be aggressive? I would suspect that it's about 1 - 2% that are aggressive and not 90% as has already been implied.

 

In 3 years of caching I have met hundreds of dogs whilst out, and only been barked at aggressively by two. One the owner got control of the dog immediately and apologised, the other owner just ignored it. The latter in my opinion was the bad owner.

 

I think Nick has been extremely unlucky in that the preverbial lightning has struck twice. :laughing:

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i would just also agree with nick&ali if you carry pepper spray you ar elikely to get arrested as is illegal.

 

i don't own a dog but am not anti dog.

 

yes dog walking is legitamate, however, the dog should be under control at all times so either the dog should be within site and command of the owner and be trained to respond immediately or on a lead.

the analogy of car on a road... sorry but it is the car drivers responsibility to avoid a pedestrian even if the pedestrian is acting like an idiot.

 

ultimately it is the responsibilty of the dog owner to keep the dog either on a lead or to train the dog so that it does not approach strangers.

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My dog occasionally barks and charges around while off the lead,

 

I have two Jack Russel's, both well behaved and very friendly. They are allowed off of the lead to do as they will when no one else is about. As soon as other people are spotted, they are called to heal and put on the lead. Some people do not like dogs others are frightened by them. Why should people be put in fear or be pestered because dog owners lack responsibility?

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I don't speak dog. I don't understand a dog's body language. I don't own a dog. Surely it's the responsibility of the dog owner to do all that, not mine?

 

I like your way of thinking, drsolly....!

 

In an emergency, my dog would rush up to someone and bark to alert them; an example of the emergency being me unconscious around the next bend, God forbid he tries to alert someone and gets Dazed for his trouble!

 

Dorestgal - Genuine question.. Does your dog wear visible identification like other assistance dogs or is he a personal (but well trained!) pet? Just curious!

 

Obviously that would also make a diference to a lot of the situations debated (in your case) as

1) I imagine he will sit down still whilst barking to alert people, not prance around a person

2) He will have a smart jacket on which should hopefully give people an instant sense of security around him!

 

James

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I don't speak dog. I don't understand a dog's body language. I don't own a dog.
I do think I can tell the difference between a "Timmy's fallen down the old well" bark, and a teeth-showing, snarling, growling "For two ha'pennies I'd rip your leg off" bark. To some extent. I certainly don't claim expertise.

drsolly, do you or don't you understand a dogs body language? As to me these two statements made by you, taken in the concept of your debate with dorsetgal, are a contradiction!

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Having a dog ourselves we are not normally wary of other dogs except for black labradors as Booboo has the scars from a little incident that was totally unprovoked by him :laughing: . We don't like to be predjudiced against black labradors but I have found the odd rogue one here and there over the years.

 

I would suggest you get a dog then other dogs will leave you alone and automatically go to sniff your own canine friend :rolleyes: They're a great excuse to go out caching/walking.

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Bramble and Mop bark and make A lot of noise, but this is not because they are aggressive it's because they are frightened by the other party and this is there defense.

They would never bite, we usually let them off the lead and put them back on when someone approaches.

I am sorry for your encounter it's not normal for that type of dog?

Kevin

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It's high time that people were prohibited from keeping wild animals, and especially from taking them out in public.

 

My sympathy is with Nick, and with the relatives of all those - mostly children - who've been seriously injured by these "pets".

 

Most dog owners just don't care. The dog runs around all over the place; the owner yells at it ineffectually; the dog does its business and the owner walks off and leaves it.

 

Just what is the point anyway? I can understand the need for a working dog, but the others?

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As a frequent footpath user, I get tired of being bothered by off-lead dogs. I'm well aware that the approaching hound is highly unlikely to actually bite, but dog owners don't seem to understand the annoyance that the charging animal causes. Not to mention the irritation from muddy pawprints on hitherto clean clothes. I have never been bitten seriously, but tripped over several times and shocked a few times by surprise attacks.

 

It's even more annoying when the owner notices your discomfort and calls out "don't worry, he won't bite!" as if that helps (sometimes in a tone of voice suggesting "you big wimp"!). :laughing:

 

HH

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Sweeping generalisation time then? That comment reminds me of the saying 'the more I meet people, the more I love my dogs'. Now don't get me started on people with those other wild animals -horrible kids - why take them out to run around and scream, and generally annoy other people.

Dogs have been domesticated and a companion for man for thousands of years.

 

Sorry Nick that you have had this experience twice. I too am wary of dogs I don't know, even though we have 2 dogs of our own. I carry a dog stop, and have been know to shout at other owners who allow their dogs to behave unacceptably. I know some people carry one of those jiff lemon squeezers or a an umbrella to 'pop' open if they are approached when they don't want to be. Learning about dog language is useful - as said before looking a dog in the eyes / staring is confrontational. You could turn sideways and yawn (a calming signal), but not look at the dog, while asking the owner (if they're about) to remove the dog. When removed then threaten them with the local dog warden. No-one should let their dog get so far away from them that they cannot see what they are doing.

Unfortunately the common denominator in dogs behaving badly are the human owners, who can't be bothered to do some basic training, and think their dogs (and probably their children) are entitled to do whatever they like whenever they like.

 

Edited to add some details of calming signals........

THE CALMING SIGNALS

1. Turning of the head

This can be swift, turning the head to the side and back, or held to the side. This is a sign the dog is not comfortable. Examples of this are often seen:

His head may turn if you stoop over him

If another dog approaches him to fast

If she finds a camera being pointed in her direction scary.

 

You can use the turning of your head to communicate to a dog that seems scared and starts to growl or bark at you Sometimes its not the head, but the eyes only from side to side and look away to avert a direct stare. Your dog may use it if you stare at him or approach front to front.

 

2. Turning away

Turning the side or back to someone is very calming. When dogs play and that game gets wild some of them will start turning their side or back, just to calm the game down a little. Your dog may use it if another dog acts threateningly, or growls at him.

 

You can use it when a dog shows signs of nervousness or aggressiveness to you. If he jumps at you, turn away and most times he will stop. If your approaching a strange dog and you see the dog getting nervous, turn your back and more often than not the dog will come to you.

 

3. Licking Noses.

A quick movement of the tongue, so quick it is often missed. Your dog may use it, along with other signals when approaching another dog, if you the owner bends over the dog, holds him tight, grabs him or talks to him angrily.

 

It is one signal we as humans can not use, we are not quick enough!

 

4. Yawning

The most intriguing of the signals, at least people seem to enjoy using it. Your dog may yawn when you visit the Vets, when you fight or quarrel in the family, when you hold your dog to tight, when a child comes up to hug him, and many other situations. You can use it when your dog feels uncertain, a little scared, stressed, worried or when you want him to calm down a bit.

 

Turid Rugaas "Calming Signals" - see the Book Review

Edited by Chris n Maria
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Most dog owners just don't care.

 

Do you need any more tar for that brush?

 

This thread is not about anti-dog, it is about ways to help Nick and others avoid being bitten/attacked (again). I expect the thread has run its course, and has started to cause offence with some of the posts.

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This thread is not about anti-dog, it is about ways to help Nick and others avoid being bitten/attacked (again). I expect the thread has run its course, and has started to cause offence with some of the posts.

The best way to prevent Nick - and everyone else - from being attacked by dogs is not to take the dogs out in public places.

 

And funnily enough, I do take offence when a dog runs up to me and the owner is nowhere to be seen/unable to control the dog/says "it's alright: he's only being friendly". Delete as applicable.

 

I really don't understand why dog owners feel it necessary to defend the reputation of their dogs. People are much more important than dogs.

 

Have a look at this, and this and this, just to pick a few easily found items of news. How much evidence do we need?

 

We have plenty of organisations that will protect the "rights" of dogs and their owners. Does anyone know of an organisation that is campaigning against dogs?

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I don't speak dog. I don't understand a dog's body language. I don't own a dog.
I do think I can tell the difference between a "Timmy's fallen down the old well" bark, and a teeth-showing, snarling, growling "For two ha'pennies I'd rip your leg off" bark. To some extent. I certainly don't claim expertise.

drsolly, do you or don't you understand a dogs body language? As to me these two statements made by you, taken in the concept of your debate with dorsetgal, are a contradiction!

 

I used to own a dog. I can understand elementary dog; I know what a wagging tail means, and I know what a deep growl and bared teeth means. But I don't claim expertise, only elementary knowledge. When a dog sprints towards me, barking loudly, then rushes about barking at me, I can't understand him. When the dog I referred to behaved like that, I was unable to interpret that as "I don't like people wearing hats" until the owner came up a few minutes later and told me about it.

 

Another time, some weeks back, there was a similar incident. With this one, the owner came up a few minutes later and explained "It's because you're carrying a stick" (referring to the walking poles we use).

 

Neither of these was what I'd call an attack, of course. But if I went up to a complete stranger and started shouting in his face, that would be unacceptable behaviour.

 

I do like dogs. And 99% or more of the dogs we meet while out walking are nice and well behaved; maybe a quick sniff at my ankles, which I don't mind at all, or a quick bark of "hello", and then bounding off to do other dogly things. I am not anti-dog, I am not anti-dog-owners. But I don't like badly-behaved dogs, and Nick's experience explains why.

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The best way to prevent Nick - and everyone else - from being attacked by dogs is not to take the dogs out in public places.

 

The best way to prevent rape is not to allow men near women. The best way to prevent my car windows being smashed is not to let teenagers out of the house.

Sometimes I walk past a dog owner who has stopped, with the dog pulled aside on his lead, in order to let me pass without inconvenience. I have no objection to that dog or dog owner at all - so Alan's draconian solution is not the only way.

 

I think that discussing this and making dog walkers more aware of the effect of their pastime is useful. Doubtless all dog owners reading this thread are the considerate type and wouldn't allow their hounds to charge up to strangers. But I'm convinced that a significant number just aren't aware of the effect of their unleashed pet.

 

HH

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Thanks HH for a more considered reply.

 

But I'm convinced that a significant number just aren't aware of the effect of their unleashed pet.

 

I'm sure you are right, as a considerable number of parents don't consider the effect of their kids behaviour and many car drivers drive recklessly without considering how many people they could kill, etc,etc.

 

Like most things it needs education not legislation - personally I am in favour of compulsory ownership classes for dog owners and compulsory parenting classes for parents. After all driving lessons are pretty much compulsory .

 

Chris

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Have a look at this, and this and this, just to pick a few easily found items of news. How much evidence do we need?

 

Clearly, the bbc is not going to report on every situation where a dog has been taken for a walk and and NOT attacked someone, so the evidence is somewhat skewed here... one might as well suggest that bouncy castles should be banned as kids fall off them (a fairly topical example...)

 

Maybe we should start a thread where everyone can list EVERY encounter with a dog, and whether it attacked or not, and then we could actually have some valid statistics...

 

For what its worth, I have never been attacked by a dog, or barked at aggresively, and only once has a somewhat over-friendly mutt planted its unwanted paws on my chest, and I was probably encouraging it anyway! Oh, and that was called back and the owner apologised...

 

Anyway, as someone else said, this wasn't supposed to be an anti-dog thread, and I hope that Nick has had some useful advice on how to stop attracting dogs! :laughing: My sympathy goes out to him on, I'm guessing, a rather distressing coincidence.

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Thanks HH for a more considered reply.

 

But I'm convinced that a significant number just aren't aware of the effect of their unleashed pet.

 

I'm sure you are right, as a considerable number of parents don't consider the effect of their kids behaviour and many car drivers drive recklessly without considering how many people they could kill, etc,etc.

 

Like most things it needs education not legislation - personally I am in favour of compulsory ownership classes for dog owners and compulsory parenting classes for parents. After all driving lessons are pretty much compulsory .

 

Chris

 

correct me if i'm wrong, but dog owners used to require a licence in this country a few years ago I think - why was that stopped?

 

I too would be in favour of compulsory obedience classes (as much for owners as dogs!) My dog in my youth went to these, and I could quite easily walk him anywhere without a lead, even on busy roads, as he would ALWAYS come to heel. Obviously, that wouldn't be the case for every dog, but it would be an enormous help.

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It's high time that people were prohibited from keeping wild animals, and especially from taking them out in public.

 

My sympathy is with Nick, and with the relatives of all those - mostly children - who've been seriously injured by these "pets".

 

Most dog owners just don't care. The dog runs around all over the place; the owner yells at it ineffectually; the dog does its business and the owner walks off and leaves it.

 

Just what is the point anyway? I can understand the need for a working dog, but the others?

 

Gobsmacked.......... :lol::o:(

Could the same be said for drivers/car owners, sharp knives in our kitchens ect ect, again common sense has to prevail

 

I do feel sorry for Nick his lucks been awful (it can only get better Nick :laughing: ) I too was bitten by a staffie and that's one dog I am very wary of, but you cannot call all dogs wild animals they have been domesticated now for thousands of years!! B):rolleyes::(

 

M :D

Edited by Us 4 and Jess
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In an emergency, my dog would rush up to someone and bark to alert them; an example of the emergency being me unconscious around the next bend, God forbid he tries to alert someone and gets Dazed for his trouble!

 

Dorestgal - Genuine question.. Does your dog wear visible identification like other assistance dogs or is he a personal (but well trained!) pet? Just curious!

 

Obviously that would also make a diference to a lot of the situations debated (in your case) as

1) I imagine he will sit down still whilst barking to alert people, not prance around a person

2) He will have a smart jacket on which should hopefully give people an instant sense of security around him!

 

James

 

James, just to clear this up, and it is written in my profile, GeoDog aka Caesar is a Registered Assistance Dog. He is registered in the United Kingdom with Assistance Dogs UK and is a graduate of the Dogs for the Disabled program.

 

He underwent extensive training from the time he left the nest at 8 weeks until he was placed with me at 17 months of age.

 

He has passed his Kennel Club Good Citizen Dog Scheme Bronze, Silver and Gold awards, he and I took part in the Gold Demonstations held at Crufts in 2004; in fact I was the first wheelchair using handler to do so.

 

Caesar has also passed his Therapy Dogs International (TDI) test and his American Kennel Club Canine Good Citizen Award (taken in USA this summer).

 

He has used regularly at Crufts and other shows by Dogs for the Disabled as a "demo" dog. His behaviour is exemplary, he has never bitten anyone or anything ... not even when attacked has he fought back.

 

When working with me in public he always wears a Dogs for the Disabled yellow jacket, a slip on his lead which says Dogs for the Disabled (both of which have the Assistance Dogs UK logo on them) and on his collar he wears two Dogs for the Disabled tags.

 

However he is a dog, albeit a very special one (not only to me but to the community we live in and many of the people he meets) and he needs time to free run every day.

 

I take Caesar free running, and yes, I do 100% of his care myself (and what right would I have to work him if I didn't exercise him as I am able to do so)?

 

Occasionally, because I am a person with a significant disability, I get into trouble when I am out and about. 95% of the time it is because my mobnility equipment has failed in some way.

 

Caesar would hopefully run from me to the nearest person, he will remain about 6 feet from them and most probably bark at them until they talk to him ... he will, most probably then race back and forth to try and goad them into following him ...

 

If he was unsuccessful at this he would in all likelihood go and nudge their hand with his muzzle ... and then try and get them to follow him.

 

I very much doubt he would sit and bark at someone, my understanding is that would be standing his ground and he would need someone to follow him.

 

At this time he would not be wearing a jacket ...

 

It would however, be possible to talk to him, get near him, and read his collar tags, and indeed ask him what's wrong. He would of course then attempt to get someone to follow him.

 

He has done this on two or three occasions in 6 years.

 

When I say he would hopefully do this, he is a dog and at the end of the day he will make a decision, he may decide to remain with me and try and attract attention from there ...

 

Often, people say to me, "But he would protect you wouldn't he"? The answer to this is no.

 

Just as an aside, there was a situation in 2002 when a man jumped out at me and I believe was intent on raping me, as it was I was indecently assaulted. Caesar was some 50 yards behind, he immediately realised I was in trouble (smelt my fear we are advised) and ran right at the man. Now this guy was naked with his trousers round his ankles, and Caesar charged at him forcing him to run backwards, and literally herded him across the path and kept going til the man fell backwards into a gorse bush. At no time did he bark, bite or even growl. He was however, highly alert, and as he stood guard on the bush I did notice his hackles were up.

He was included in a Dog of the Year calendar for his work that day, and over the years with me.

 

ccalendar2.jpg

 

Registered Assistance Dogs need exercise like all other dogs; they will not always be wearing their jackets, but in most cases will still come to the aid of the disabled person they are partnered with when necessary.

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Just found out, by coincidence, that's is "Dogs for the Diasabled" awareness day on the 29th. :laughing: Maybe there's an opportunity for things to be learnt about well controlled and trained 'working' dogs!

 

James, I read this with surprise.

 

I have just telephoned Dogs for the Disabled and asked if I have missed something, as this sounds important. They don't know anything about it either, perhaps you could give us more detailsof what you have heard pelase?

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To help redress the imbalance, later today I shall be biting a dog.

 

You don't need to do that - humans already do far more damage to dogs and other animals on a daily basis, some of which also makes the news (but which the White's obviously choose to ignore). I (Maria) know this because I volunteer for an animal rescue , and see the output of what so called 'civilised' humans do. So let's ban humans too, or certainly not let them out where they can offend others. Fireworks and cars do far more damage than animals do.

I pity people who have not known the unconditional love , loyalty and companionship of sharing your life with a pet - and it's good for your health too. I know who I would rather spend my time with.

 

http://www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk/ViewArticl...ticleID=1827268

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006440305,,00.html

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/arti...in_page_id=1770

 

Yeah, people are so much better than dogs

Edited by Chris n Maria
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correct me if i'm wrong, but dog owners used to require a licence in this country a few years ago I think - why was that stopped?

 

No idea - I assume as it was just a bit of paper it wasn't thought worth keeping. It was replaced (I believe) with a requirement that all dogs have a tag with owners name and address on it. But many owners don't realise that.

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