Quantity vs quality

[+kitkatt1960]

I have seen a massive upswing in the number of caches that are placed in the world. If my little corner of the world is any indication of the quality of the general cache, our hobby is in big trouble.

 

It seems to me that a lot of the caches being placed is just "because I can do it".

 

Originally there was an underlying current that the placed caches would be tied to one of the following:

1) A unique geophysical phenonomena..... like a cliff on the praries, or a prarie in the mountains...

2) A unique view of the area....top of the highest hill on a really flat plain....

3) A location with a unique piece of history attached to it.... Like the old location for a moved town or factory...or a farm ...or the first oil well in the country or whatever.....

When you found one of those caches you actually learned something.

Some of the multies of the "past era" even made you use the special features of your GPS.... like changes units of measure.... or varied datum to find secondary points....

 

You learned something on these..... you went to places that you usually did not go.... and you had fun, single or in teams... it didnt matter.....

 

Lately however the "I" generation has moved in.

I can place a cache....

I can put it somewhere that I can get to it easy.

I dont care if anyone else likes it

I am the only one that counts.

 

Well I am longing for the old days..... when you felt good that you found a cache, not the way that I feel now when I trip over poorly placed, or replaced caches, or in areas that are ecologically destroyed by cachers that dont take the time to walk around a flower bed to get to a cache.

 

I am sure that we all have one guy in the area that seems to have this thing about being the one with the most caches in the region.... JUST CUZ HE CAN. Well I have gotten to the point that I will not go out of my way to find a cache of his. If I trip over it when looking for someone elses, then I log it... but otherwise ....NO WAY. I will drive a hundred miles for an interesting cache before I will walk across the street for a bland one.

 

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy LOTS of challenging and well based caches..... but there has got to be a limit....

 

Then again, even I slip into the Mass vs quality zone..... especially when I get into an area where ONE cachers has placed caches every 200 meters along the main path in a park! Just as a form of protest!

 

Well now I have to go for a 100 mile drive to find my next cache!

 

Have Fun... and enjoy... after all this is supposed to be a hobby!

[+Red90]

Here is a thread for you.

[+TrailGators]

I agree with you but I don't think we will ever change the masses. If GC had an attribute for a lamp post and a guard rail that would help us filter those caches from our PQs....

[+Juicepig]

I agree with you but I don't think we will ever change the masses. If GC had an attribute for a lamp post and a guard rail that would help us filter those caches from our PQs....

 

I don't think people would put the "Lame" attribute on their cache intentionally though. There is always the option of contacting the owner to determine if it is worth the drive - make up a polite and properly formatted email that asks the question - is this worth driving 100 km too?

 

Then just copy and paste the email to every cache owner in the area. It may seem like a lot of work, but it may certainly filter the crap, and may teach the owners a thing or two about why other people geocache.

[+C&C+COMPANY]

I have a 3 month old, that likes to go for drives in the middle of the night.....I tend to get bored just driving around, these so called "lame" caches are handy sometimes for me. So to each his/her own that's why there is a ignore functon on Gc.com, you don't have to do the caches.

I have been caching since 2002 and in my area we have gone though the same thing you talk about in your area, but I believe the caches in Nova Scotia are back on the up swing.....Hide some yourself if you feel really strongly about it

Edited November 23, 2006 by C&C+COMPANY

[+TrailGators]

I agree with you but I don't think we will ever change the masses. If GC had an attribute for a lamp post and a guard rail that would help us filter those caches from our PQs....

I don't think people would put the "Lame" attribute on their cache intentionally though.

That's too much work.... How an attribute like "Quick and Easy Grab?" This isn't insulting and let's us filter those out. It also let's numbers hounds filter for caches like that!

[+hidnseek]

quick and easy does that not equal a 1/1 rating? i walk in the woods would at least be a 1.5/1 (wheelchair friendly most woods are not)

Edited November 23, 2006 by hidnseek

[+wavector]

You need to get out and find some more local caches to add balance to your viewpoint. Reviewing your profile convinces me that your statement "I really enjoy LOTS of challenging and well based caches" may not be an accurate representation of your approach to geocaching. It is my opinion that you will miss out on most of the fun if you continue to insist that other geocachers should change the way they play to conform with your views.

Ben Moffat placed most of the original caches in and around Medicine Hat. They were in many cases all nice hikes in areas that were undistinguished by history or any other factors. Caches like One Powerful Site, One Coul Site, All Clues Point Here or Riverbend have none of the attributes you contend are shared by historic hides but every one was an enjoyable and fun cache to find. The caches placed by cachers like Hoser7 were very similar to Ben's caches, Echodale of Yesteryear, Below the Teepee Trail and Pirate's Stash were nothing extraordinary, no historic lessons, just nice walks in places like the Teepee Park or Echodale Farm or along the river. Even if people want the park and grabs those hiding can still make challenging hikes and challenging hides for those that enjoy them and let the park and grab crowd do the park and grab thing. Park and grabs are the most popular caches today, park and grab micros with no walks at all are common. I recently read a log where a couple of intrepid locals chose the huge hike down the hill and over the creek turning a straightforward drive up cache into a neat adventure, I wish I had thought of that.

 

Here is a list of some challenging caches you might want to take a look at, all of these caches have been found by most of the locals and for the most part people have enjoyed them. It is easy to complain but it is more effective if you actually have a basis for your observations. These are simple caches that involve hikes, I do not see your logs on any of these...

 

Beaver Creek A good hike, in place for three years. This is near Horseshoe Survival but this one is a few more miles, you do have to walk, most of the locals enjoyed this cache.

 

Cypress Hills by the Campbell Outdoors Club. This is a good hike and many of the locals have enjoyed this walk, it has been in place for years.

 

Off the beaten path in Cypress Hills is one of a series of caches placed by local geocachers SJBD Letkeman, all of them involve hikes though the one linked above is a really great hike that most local cachers have enjoyed.

 

Sudoku, Fun and Games A very simple puzzle and nice little hike, a lot of Sudoku resources are available to help you solve the puzzle. There are other traditional caches nearby as well for those that like a longer walk. I am not sure why you have never found a puzzle cache so I thought of recommending this easy one as a good example of a fun adventure.

 

The easiest way to reshape the geocaching landscape is to get out there and hide geocaches, offer up hunts for people to find, complaining really doesn't help. As you gain more experience you will find that your views are "your views" and the caches you like are the caches "you like", nothing more. Good luck in attaining greater enjoyment out of your geocaching experiences.

 

In direct answer to your question Quality vs Quantity. One of Alberta's most prolific cachers in terms of hides is Calgary's 3jaze. His 77 geocache hides are all really, really good caches. Every one of them has "quality" as a hallmark. They are well maintained, well thought out and well visited caches. Finding twenty or thirty of these caches would, I venture, entirely reshape your understanding of this game/activity/sport/hobby. Quality is evident and geocachers have tools to express the fact that they like a geocache. There are Watchlists, Bookmarks and online logs, all these let people decide for themselves, as it should be. Quantity and quality often coincide in this activity.

Edited November 23, 2006 by wavector

[+mtn-man]

Have Fun... and enjoy... after all this is supposed to be a hobby!

I find it interesting that you give a rant belittling some people's approach to geocaching, then close with the statement I have quoted above. Perhaps you should take your own advice?

[+The MadHatters]

My better judgement told me to stay away from this one, but I've never before listened to it so move over everyone and let "THE CACHER FORMERLY KNOWN AS PIGSHANKS" up to the trough!!!

 

Now I stumbled onto the hobby a few years back looking for info on the net to build maps for my GPSr. Hey!!! Great idea. Get's me out with the wife and kids to places I probably wouldn't grt to otherwise. Ben Moffat had THE best sites in town. Okay, maybe no history involved, but in my mind the scenery was awesome. The novelty wore off quickly though(Par for the course with me) and that was the end of things for a while. Earlier this summer I found some old pics on the PC of the kids holding the caches and their new found treasure and decided to check things out again. Whoa!! What a diference a few years makes. Anything and everything was fair game. Caches on bridges and in the middle of flower beds in public parks. Even the local mall where it is virtually impossible to get permission to hang a bloody poster has one or two. Now I don't profess to be an expert on caching, put I have seen a lot of damage done by the "Oh so sensitive cachers" and truly believe that we will soon be looked upon in a non-flattering manner. Reading other posts of Cemetary caches and playground caches makes me wonder about people. No way in h*ll would I hunt in a playground for fear of what may happen. I know if I saw someone lurking around a bunch of kids in a playground, no explaination would suffice. And why would cachers think it neccessary to hide something in a cemetery is beyond me. Lack of respect is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

I will continue to seek out caches that I feel are worthy of my time and effort to locate. If that means one or two a year, OH WELL!!! A simple walk with some history and/or a nice view is all I want. If I see a cache that causes me concern I make the concern known to the owner. If the goal of the cache is to convey some sort of superior intellect then guess what??? This old boy aint a gonna be lookin' fer it.

 

You can keep hiding what you want in whatever your gonna hide it in, But if it doesn't sound good to me you won't find my name in the log.

 

Oh! And UBG, frettin bout it is gonna make your hair fall out

[+TrailGators]

quick and easy does that not equal a 1/1 rating? i walk in the woods would at least be a 1.5/1 (wheelchair friendly most woods are not)

True but I have seen ratings all over the place for quick and easy grabs. So maybe a stopwatch attribute (meaning less than 10 minutes) would be better. It would help numbers people and those in a hurry! It would also help those who like caches that take more time! Edited November 24, 2006 by TrailGators

[+hidnseek]

quick and easy does that not equal a 1/1 rating? i walk in the woods would at least be a 1.5/1 (wheelchair friendly most woods are not)

True but I have seen ratings all over the place for quick and easy grabs. So maybe a stopwatch attribute (meaning less than 10 minutes) would be better. It would help numbers people and those in a hurry! It would also help those who like caches that take more time!

less then ten minutes yes, there is the attirbute for less then an hour so that can help narrow some more down

[+wavector]

I will continue to seek out caches that I feel are worthy of my time and effort to locate.

 

There are several cemetery caches located in Alberta South hidden by special interest groups using geocaching as a tool to introduce visitors to the Special Areas and the history of some of the sites. One cache I can think of was placed in a location where there used to be a town, today the cemetery is the only thing left. We found a cache in Zortmann, Montana that was located in a private family cemetery, we didn't know this until we got there. Two young American boys were buried there, side by side under handmade grave markers. Their father, though it may have been an uncle, was buried under a beautiful white marble headstone. The cache was clearly placed by, or with the knowledge of, those family members left behind. The container was right beside one of the graves and was surrounded by silk flowers. I imagine this cache was placed in remembrance of lives cherished. The cache asked cachers to leave no trade items but to just pay respect and remember. The cache was actually listed as being placed by the local geocaching assocation, I think the family may have asked that it be placed but I really don't know. We were profoundly moved by this cache and those young men, that day they lived in our hearts again just for a short while. I really don't try to prejudge and would never decide that these were disrespectful gestures, I just find caches that people hide and do my best to appreciate the reasons why they might have hidden them.

The Prairie South School Division in Saskatchewan has hidden somewhere around thirty caches at school sites all over the SW of Saskatchewan, the Regina School Board has done a similar thing in Regina. These are just a few nearby examples that demonstrate your stated stances may be dated and do not encompass the growing popularity of geocaching as a tool to really reach everyone. Every geocacher can go and hide geocaches and change the caching landscape. People who go out and find the geocaches hidden by others have tools they can use to express how they feel about the geocaches they find.

Shelter II really captured the imagination of the whole geocaching community, if you go look for a cache like Shelter II and you can't find it that doesn't make it a bad cache. It means that the hider has provided a challenge the seeker could not meet, many people find this very frustrating. Whining about geocaches you can't find isn't productive. Complaining about geocaches you have never found is even less productive than whining about geocaches you can't find. I have searched for several challenging hides that really require seekers to think outside of the box, many people really enjoy these types of hunts, the hider intends to challenge the seeker. Read the logs on this cache for a really good example of a cache like this, opening up to these new ideas is easier than complaining that it isn't the way it oughtta/usedto be.

 

As far as geocachers/geocaching getting a bad name it is entirely possible, the whiners try to make themselves heard by whining and it is a negative action. On the other hand geocaching also includes activities like CITO that try and establish relationships with the parks, a great way to participate in helping build a positive relationship with local authorities and local parks.

I do agree that some placements are more likely to attract notice for the damage they cause than others. I did see some local cachers archive a cache after seeing the damage caused by the first searchers, it was a very responsible reaction. Doing no damage in a search is a two way street, the hider and the finder both have to use common sense. Something like the Park Friendly initiative developed by Landsharkz isn't intended to make hiders feel good about themselves, it is intended to provide a benefit to the environment that is real, caches hidden within a meter or two of the trail are less likely to cause damage.

 

Hiding good quality geocaches is the best way to influence the activity in the direction you want to see it go. The whole idea is to get out there and show people the kind of geocaches you prefer by finding and bookmarking the ones you like and hiding ones you would like to find. I try to use quality containers, place good trade items, create nice hikes, place caches that can be done by everyone and work hard to vary the caches I place, everyone enjoys different hunts. The five caches that I have placed in the Cypress Hills are the least found caches that I have placed, all require extensive hiking but the hikes end at .50 cal ammo boxes (1 is a large Lock n Lock). The most visited cache that I have placed is a park and grab by the highway.

Edited November 24, 2006 by wavector

[+ReadyOrNot]

How an attribute like "Quick and Easy Grab?" This isn't insulting and let's us filter those out. It also let's numbers hounds filter for caches like that!

 

Hey! My first lamp post hide took me 6 visits... I remember it well.. It was a Walgreen's parking lot with a beatiful view of a texaco station. I enjoyed it so much, I've been back there MANY MANY times (for Milk and socks)

[+Bullfrog Eh-Team]

Hey! My first lamp post hide took me 6 visits... I remember it well.. It was a Walgreen's parking lot with a beatiful view of a texaco station. I enjoyed it so much, I've been back there MANY MANY times (for Milk and socks)

How pleased we are to live in a relatively remote 'lakes and forested' area. Almost all of our cache finds and hides required at least a short hike into the bush, and exposure to the natural world. The only ones we 'ignore' are those restricted to 'water access only', and even those we may attempt as winter ice sets in (next week?). I guess we're fortunate that the nearest 'lamp post hide' is over 100 km away; and, we're also fortunate that 'sparcity' usually generates 'quality'.

[+The Blue Quasar]

Sbell said it best in another thread "Hide caches that you would like to find"

 

That's what I do, and if people find mine to be too difficult or involve too much time, there is nothing I can do. I'm not going to change what I enjoy.

 

When it comes to finding other people's find that may not be 'exciting or interesting'. I log them and forget them, at least they are off my list. You might think that encourages the idea, but I disagree. If you read the logs on ones I like, you can tell. If someone makes the effort to create a completely enjoyable experience my log reflects their efforts. If it is a drive up... I don't write much.

 

The Blue Quasar

 

edit... wrong smilie

Edited November 24, 2006 by The Blue Quasar

[+TrailGators]

If someone makes the effort to create a completely enjoyable experience my log reflects their efforts. If it is a drive up... I don't write much. The Blue Quasar

I do the same thing! Most of the time, I can't remember the "no effort" caches when I get home to log them. So I have an honest reason for putting "no effort" into my logs for those kind of caches! Edited November 24, 2006 by TrailGators

[+wavector]

Most of the time, I can't remember the "no effort" caches when I get home to log them.

 

There are cachers who place a lot of effort into a cache, effort does not always equate to "good", many times effort is wasted because the basics are overlooked or the placer doesn't even bother to read the guidelines.

I have no doubt that those placing caches that "I think" are of poor quality sit back and wait for accolades to roll in, I am sure they are "proud" of the caches they hide. I would bet that many equate effort expended in creating caches as a sign of quality but I don't think that this is true. There really is no set standard for quality in this activity, perhaps a signable logbook, there is mostly what "you like" and what "you don't like". Blue Quasar makes a good point in that this idea has been best defended by sbell111. I tend to acknowledge that Markwell is also right in his list of points that make a great cache so I guess I can have it both ways. I edited this message because there is no need for a brush war and it is pretty clear to anyone interested who has offended the OP by hiding too many caches.

 

In my own defence, I really enjoy the logs I get on my caches and don't pay much attention to the complaints of those who can't find them. I have given out a lot of clues through email and have some tough hides, even for the very experienced. I have a number of different caches which people have on their Favourite lists, I have several caches which a number of geocachers have marked as a Favourite. I have caches I like that don't have a single really great commendation and no watchers and I have caches that people have flat out told me they didn't like. I do think that it is a wide world and a lot of people will end up helping create the geocaching landscape, I guess that is the whole idea.

Edited November 24, 2006 by wavector

[+AV Dezign]

I agree with the above, any cache can be bad, no mater how much effort was put into it.

 

Eveybody hates an LPC right? Dirty parking lot - lamp post - you know the drill... now read these logs... (you will need to use babble on most of them since most are French).

 

GCXTC4 The Laws of Lob

 

(the cache is currently dissabled for winter)

[+wavector]

Oh my, a cache at the local Loblaw's.

 

The logs for that cache are very clear, I am a hundred percent sure I would like that cache! I like inventive hides and cool containers and have found that many other geocachers do as well.

 

The logs for the local shopping center cache in our town are not as much fun as yours but most people really seem to like the cache. I called it Mother because my wife really likes to shop. If you don't like being scrutinized then this cache may not suit your fancy but it seems well liked by all the locals if you read the logs. Like your Loblaws cache it is pretty clear that it isn't humdrum. I can't see any logs on Mother where finders have complained or even said anything negative. I see 1 eyed purple hair comments, felt like a spy comments, felt like everyone was watching me comments, can't believe it is still there comments etc but no negatives at all.

Edited November 24, 2006 by wavector

[+Shawn&Holly]

I have noted a huge increase in caches placed here over the last 2 years, in our home town, the number of caches are decreasing. I think having a number of well placed caches is a good thing and the best thing to do is hide caches you like to hunt and hopefully cachers in the area will enjoy them and hide quality caches also. I also do not see the relation between park&grabs and number hounds, we like park&grabs as well as moderate hikes and caches that takes you to historic locations and great views (the latter might just be a drive up cache, done many of them). Don't think we are number hounds, just get out and enjoy the hobby as such at your own pace, looking at your cache hides, would love to visit and find a few, but it is a bit more of a drive then we can do

[+northernpenguin]

There are approximately 200,000 some-odd geocachers, which makes for 200,000 some-odd opinions of what a good geocache is. Get a program like GSAK and filter out the caches based on words like "parking" "walmart" and "lamp" if you don't like a particular type, or use the geocaching.com "Ignore" feature.

[+Kabuthunk]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm trying to start off my hiding on a "unique, scenic, fun location" in the country... so if there's more people like me who start hiding, things will go uphill

 

Note: Still working on the cache container. Cache should be up in like... a week or so if you're in southern Manitoba.

 

But remember this... if there's only "good" caches, then what will happen to film-canister manufacturers? Do YOU want to be the one responsible for them needing to fire half their workers? Huh?

[+The MadHatters]

I have no doubt that those placing caches that "I think" are of poor quality sit back and wait for accolades to roll in, I am sure they are "proud" of the caches they hide. I would bet that many equate effort expended in creating caches as a sign of quality but I don't think that this is true.

 

 

 

 

Another drive up, the dog hates these caches. The kids weren't to thrilled but I managed to get them to look for the cache. Found the cache, the slip of paper with Chet and Jane's sig and the nano log in the micro cache. A quick sign and we were on our way to next cache. Thanks for the cache.

 

 

found this cache, I think it may be one of Alberta's southernmost caches. It is a wet cache that is for sure. I spent some time drying this one out but I am certain that it won't matter, film canisters make extremely poor geocaches

 

This was another quick stop and another micro? I am not sure why a micro was placed here but we found it without any problems.

 

I can see by a few of the comments left on cache logs that you don't hold back if "you think" a cache is poor quality. I can remember a cache that you jumped all over because you thought it was too close to the tracks and earlier in this thread(before you edited it out) you stated how on one multi it was a waste of time driving around with no challenge to you, and another was garbage because it was in what you called, garbage. Instead of negative comments, why not encourage them with some ideas. Myself and another local have spent some time coming up with cache ideas, but I now feel that they will not pass your scrutiny so why bother.

 

I can remember a discussion at Timmies a few months back and how various interest groups seemed to fade away because some members felt that the direction of a few was to be the course for the remainder. It's too bad though, because I felt that there was some avenues that needed exploring.

 

But on a lighter note, It's cold and it's snowing. Ice fishing is a week or two away.

[+The Blue Quasar]

The one thing that I learned in 2006, is that caching is changing. Some times for the better and some the worse.

 

Either way, I have made it fun for me, and hopefully my geo-friends. At one time I used to get upset about this cache or that cache, or over some imagined issue of neglect or rule breaking, but not anymore.

 

No one is holding a gun to my head. I choose to find the ones I do. Do I enjoy them all?? In some ways yes for every single one. I got outside and did the hobby I chose. I don't want them all to be good anymore. Would it be any fun if the Maple Leafs won every game by a huge amount? At first, maybe... but then it gets boring.

 

Sometimes we have the time to devote a few hours to a really good cache, and sometimes we only have a few minutes to spare. We are lucky to have such options. That same Leaf fan doesn't get that luxury.

 

Variety is the spice of life... true here too.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+wavector]

Myself and another local have spent some time coming up with cache ideas, but I now feel that they will not pass your scrutiny

 

If you are placing caches to impress me then you might have a point, if you are placing caches to please yourself then why wouldn't you hide them? Perhaps you missed the opening post in this thread. I think one of the moderators used the word "belittle" which is I believe an apt description of the attitude displayed. Not only did the OP choose to come into the forums and belittle others he completely misrepresented his own geocaching approach. He professed to "enjoy a LOT of challenging caches" but a simple review of his profile indicates that he has never found a Mystery Cache, never found a Virtual Cache, never found a Locationless Cache, never attended a CITO cache, never found a Webcam Cache and in fact hasn't even found the caches close to his home location that he says he likes to find, this is a complete misrepresentation is it not? Do you think his statements are true? Do you think he enjoys a lot of challenging hides?

I think it would be far more accurate to say he has a fairly narrow window on the geocaching world.

 

I say exactly what I think about a cache. I am looking at your excerpted logs and I know exactly which caches they come from. The wet cache was placed by Lethbridge cachers Rock Chucks and yes, it was soaking wet. I spent about 15 minutes drying it so that I could sign the log and it is going to get wet again because it is a film canister. Perhaps you would praise the cache and the cacher. I don't think praise is an accurate representation of my adventure.

The micro cache with the nano log was a drive up micro on the side of the road and the kids were not thrilled. You say you cache with kids but I suspect that if you don't understand my statement regarding my less than thrilled children then you may not cache with your kids very often. I fail to see your point in quoting this log but perhaps you would praise the cache and the cacher, I just laid out my adventure exactly as it happened.

The third quote is from a cache placed by Greg and Max in Montana called High and Lonesome I think. That cache location could have held a fridge and I really was surprised to see a micro cache. My log relates my exact reaction to finding a micro in that location, go find that cache and then write a log on it and we can compare logs.

 

You need to reread this thread, the OP is the one casting stones, he has an issue with caches placed by other cachers, I am not sure what you are reading to come to your conclusions that there is someone else who is interested in attempting to control other cachers but the OP is the only one doing that.

 

I described the last cache I found accurately and I did not say it was garbage, I said the cache was constructed from garbage and this is accurate. Perhaps used plastic dog food containers are fine cache containers but they are still garbage. The dog food maker creates an inexpensive container that can be thrown away after the dog food is eaten, hence it is garbage. You have jumped from the cache being made out of garbage to me calling the cache garbage, this is not accurate, I never once called the cache garbage but I stated quite clearly it was one that "I think is a very poor quality cache".

I described a ten part drive up multi where all the stages and the final were dollar store micro containers. I never stated that the cache wasn't challenging, I stated that the containers were connected to benches and living trees with screws and staples and this is actually against the guidelines. I stated that people who cannot read the guidelines put a lot of effort into a cache but the effort is wasted if they intended to create a good quality cache, I said that the cache was one "I think is of very poor quality."

 

You have failed to respond to a single point I made regarding your position on cemetery caches and school yard caches. You have represented your viewpoints and they are clearly out of synch with the examples I posted. Do you think the school boards are wrong? Do you think the family in Zortmann is being disprespectful? I am interested in your answers because I am wondering if you have the ability to be accurate in your statements, the OP does not. Some people cannot admit they are wrong even when it is very clear that they are out of order. When I filed that SBA I really thought that the cache was in a location prohibited by the guidelines and it was unsafe, it was why I filed the SBA. I removed the SBA and apologized to the cache owner. I am not sure where you see the problem, an SBA log is always placed by someone other than the cache owner. Are you telling me that you are never going to file an SBA on a cache or that you have never made a mistake?

 

You are free to place any cache you want and that really seems to bother the OP, not me. Read what he is saying, his complaint is that people are placing caches "because they can".

Edited November 25, 2006 by wavector

[+nicolo]

<sniff> <sniff> I smell angst in Medicine Hat

[+TrailGators]

My thoughts....

[+wavector]

I smell angst in Medicine Hat

 

That is accurate.

 

Medicine Hat is usually an angst free zone and we do have a good variety of caches. We have plenty of nice hikes and I have linked some in this thread.

These forums are like a living room we all share and the OP's remarks clearly identify who is to blame for all the problems he is experiencing finding joy in geocaching. He and I can sit and drink coffee together and not have a problem but when it comes to geocaching perhaps we will never see eye to eye. I wouldn't mind being identified and I can even accept criticism if it is funded in fact.

 

The OP has not stated the situation accurately.

 

I will let my cache logs speak for themselves. I hope that hiding more caches does not make things worse as I have a lot of new ones on deck and more in the conceptual stage.

"I think" I work hard at placing a good variety of caches and "I think" many can be very challenging and "I think" the locals like my caches. The logs are really the community feedback and "I think" they are very clear. What do you think?

 

But you are accurate, even this message indicates angst so angst there is in Medicine Hat.

[+The MadHatters]

 

[qoute]If you are placing caches to impress me then you might have a point, if you are placing caches to please yourself then why wouldn't you hide them?

 

I am not imagining that a gun gets pointed at someones head and they are forced to place a cache which leads me to believe that they were placed for their pleasure. You find it and have nothing good to say about it. Even your dog hates it!

Most chacers in the Hat do not have the number of findes that you have, so reading up an a cache and finding comments like "I managed to get them to look for the cache" might make them reconsider this one.

 

Perhaps you missed the opening post in this thread. I think one of the moderators used the word "belittle" which is I believe an apt description of the attitude displayed. Not only did the OP choose to come into the forums and belittle others he completely misrepresented his own geocaching approach. He professed to "enjoy a LOT of challenging caches" but a simple review of his profile indicates that he has never found a Mystery Cache, never found a Virtual Cache, never found a Locationless Cache, never attended a CITO cache, never found a Webcam Cache and in fact hasn't even found the caches close to his home location that he says he likes to find, this is a complete misrepresentation is it not? Do you think his statements are true? Do you think he enjoys a lot of challenging hides?

I think it would be far more accurate to say he has a fairly narrow window on the geocaching world.

 

I re-read the entire post. I see once again that because the OP's idea of challenging differs yours, he has never found a Mystery Cache, never found a Virtual Cache, never found a Locationless Cache, never attended a CITO cache, never found a Webcam Cache and in fact hasn't even found the caches close to his home location that he says he likes to find that the OP is not justified in calling his finds challenging. To me it sounds like the OP is upset and decided to vent. And I can well imagine where this vent is pointing at. I have seen the caches mentioned in the OP post. Good Ol' Ammo Can . Now I wouldn't go as far as calling the park an evironmentally sensitive area, but it is a park like no other in the Hat. Not hard to find this one. Just follow the newly established trail in the knee high prairie grass. Or there is SAY WHAT YOU WANT, in a wonderful little park in downtown. If you checked out the listing, I posted pics of this great cache showing plants trampled, flag pole rope pulled off and laying on the ground, in ground control box covers ripped off, and electrical outlet boxes damaged. I hope this was not caused by cachers, but all of this is within 25' of the coords and the rest of the park seemed fine. Reading your post you thanked the placer for the challenging cache, but I guess that this was an acceptable location in you eyes. I read the OP post and he said good hide... but by my gps, a bit off the target... not complaining,,,just that I did have to work for this one... (probably the first that I had to work for!) TFTH, and sorry for the hassles in the past!

 

I say exactly what I think about a cache. I am looking at your excerpted logs and I know exactly which caches they come from. The wet cache was placed by Lethbridge cachers Rock Chucks and yes, it was soaking wet. I spent about 15 minutes drying it so that I could sign the log and it is going to get wet again because it is a film canister. Perhaps you would praise the cache and the cacher. I don't think praise is an accurate representation of my adventure.

 

Fair enough. I know they get the posted log sent to them, but did you sent him an email explaining what you found.

 

The micro cache with the nano log was a drive up micro on the side of the road and the kids were not thrilled. You say you cache with kids but I suspect that if you don't understand my statement regarding my less than thrilled children then you may not cache with your kids very often. I fail to see your point in quoting this log but perhaps you would praise the cache and the cacher, I just laid out my adventure exactly as it happened.

 

Yes it was a drive up nano, and no my kids were not to impressed. A 7 and 5 year old are more interested in trading for swag than in the view or the description, But I liked it because it told of a piece of local history.

 

The basis for this one is that there is a unique feature in the area that has survived the construction of a main road in "our town". When you find this mini / micro you will be viewing a gathering point that is one of our summer hot spots for personal enjoyment and physical activity.

 

Across the valley you will see a set of cliffs.... on top of that ridge (somewhere near the current site of Vienerville) the Medicine Hat Golf Club was originally started in 1916. Somewhere near 1920ish, the Club took a swing at a new location. When you look toward the current club house, from the cache location, you will see what used to be the original 18th hole. It is now occupied by the putting green.

 

Line yourself up, and look down.... That strange shaped hill, directly in front of you was the original 18th Tee Box. The 17th green was in the area of the buildings behind you.

 

Good luck on the search for this mini. Take your own SHARP writing instrument, as the log is all that is there..... I tried to put a pencil in, but as you will see, Pencil does not always mean useable or sharp!

 

The third quote is from a cache placed by Greg and Max in Montana called High and Lonesome I think. That cache location could have held a fridge and I really was surprised to see a micro cache. My log relates my exact reaction to finding a micro in that location, go find that cache and then write a log on it and we can compare logs.

 

Once again, I am not imagining that a gun gets pointed at someones head and they are forced to place a cache which leads me to believe that they were placed for their pleasure, not yours. I was actually quoting from Honyocker with description of:

 

A nice place to pull over and stretch on Highway 2 just east of Havre Montana. Small cache but will hold several travel bugs making this a travel bug rest stop.

 

I stop here often to stretch and check my vehicle. Not much to look at but a nice shadey place to get some fresh air, let the dog do his thing and wave at Amtrak's "The Empire Builder" as it rushes by in the distance. Be sure to read the history sign

 

It stated small cache to hold travel bugs.

 

August 5 by wavector (473 found)

This was another quick stop and another micro? I am not sure why a micro was placed here but we found it without any problems. TFTC

 

You need to reread this thread, the OP is the one casting stones, he has an issue with caches placed by other cachers, I am not sure what you are reading to come to your conclusions that there is someone else who is interested in attempting to control other cachers but the OP is the only one doing that.

 

It has been read and re-read. Yes the OP seems to have an issue with someone and/or something, and maybe frustration took over the keyboard. Maybe some clarification is needed.

My conclusion is just that, MINE! When a self appointed "Quality Controller" speaks up about others caches in a negative way two things could happen;

1. The cache owner gets upset/angry/frustrated and chooses not to place more caches and /or removes the one in question.

2. Others read these comments and make a decision not to find these caches and the same results may happen.

 

Over time only the ACCEPTABLE caches will remain.

 

I described the last cache I found accurately and I did not say it was garbage, I said the cache was constructed from garbage and this is accurate. Perhaps used plastic dog food containers are fine cache containers but they are still garbage. The dog food maker creates an inexpensive container that can be thrown away after the dog food is eaten, hence it is garbage. You have jumped from the cache being made out of garbage to me calling the cache garbage, this is not accurate, I never once called the cache garbage but I stated quite clearly it was one that "I think is a very poor quality cache".

I described a ten part drive up multi where all the stages and the final were dollar store micro containers. I never stated that the cache wasn't challenging, I stated that the containers were connected to benches and living trees with screws and staples and this is actually against the guidelines. I stated that people who cannot read the guidelines put a lot of effort into a cache but the effort is wasted if they intended to create a good quality cache, I said that the cache was one "I think is of very poor quality."

 

This basically sums up my argument. You think it is of poor quality, and use the term garbage to describe certain aspects of this multi. Some people may think twice about trying for this because of your comments. Please re-read comments above the last quote. I have procured some ammo cans of various size from work, so I guess because they no longer meet the requirements of the military(bent, dented,etc.) they get sent to the salvagable scrap pile. So would it be safe to assume that ammo cans are garbage, or film canisters, or pill bottles. One mans garbage could be another mans cache container. REF Fish. I don't think it could still be used for it'd original purpose. IS IT ....?

 

You have failed to respond to a single point I made regarding your position on cemetery caches and school yard caches. You have represented your viewpoints and they are clearly out of synch with the examples I posted. Do you think the school boards are wrong? Do you think the family in Zortmann is being disprespectful? I am interested in your answers because I am wondering if you have the ability to be accurate in your statements, the OP does not. Some people cannot admit they are wrong even when it is very clear that they are out of order. [/qoute]

 

So now my beliefs are wrong. In the case of a private family cemetary, if the owners are in favor of it, NO PROBLEM, I don't have to hunt this one. If it is a cache that brings you to a old cemetary and the cache is not located in the cementary, fine. I will try for these as it of historical nature, and I may venture in and repectfully view the monuments. If the cache is phisycally located in a cemetary, active cemetery or not, I would definately NOT search a cache. Unless there was consent given by every family who had a loved one buried in there I don't believe such a cache should be listed, let alone hunted for.

 

And since you brought up the rule infrations in a now edited post, I thought I might as well post them in case something was overlooked. I have numbered them for easier reference.

 

By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived.

 

Caches may be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

 

1. Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)

2. Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.

3. Caches that deface public or private property, whether a natural or man-made object, in order to provide a clue or a logging method.

4. Caches placed on archaeological or historical sites. In most cases these areas are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans.

5. Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.

6. Caches near or on military installations.

7. Caches near or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports

 

As for schools, same rules for me apply. If it is an old school not being used for teaching children, hide away. If it is still an active school and the cache is not physicalli in/on the property and there is a reference to the school, fine, but an active cache on school property? Not unless every parant/guardian consented to having people with no school business allowed onto the property for a treasure hunt. Not likely! Can you be 100% sure that there is not a cacher within the hobby or even someone posing as a cacher that may be questionable. I didn't think so. There is no way I would even consider a cache at a local school and if one appeared I would be the first to a) contact the school division and report it, and b)SBA it. Does this answer your questions? Also, Rule 7 seems to say so.

 

An earlier edited post made reference to a 10 point multi that broke rule #3. So SBA it if you feel it is not in complience. Drop the owner a note and see if it can be resolved. And since you first referenced the rules i have dug up a few more in the area that MAY or MAY NOT be questionable. You tell me!

 

Rule#7 Pikacache - located on a bridge

Consent Say What You Want - located in park on city owned utility panel. Permission not stated on listing if indeed exsists.

Consent Dreaming Rodeo - County gravil pit(closed) now city lands Posted no trespassing but signs have been destroyed. Info from City Of Medicine Hat.

Consent Mother and Daughter - Privately owned facility that is generally uncooperative to other types of requests. Permission not stated on listing if indeed exsists.

Consent Swim located in city owned facility with possible liability issue. Permission not stated on listing if indeed exsists.

Consent All Cypress Hills Caches Interprovincial Park noted for its unique and diverse landscape/plant/animals. Permission not stated on listing if indeed exsists.

 

When I filed that SBA I really thought that the cache was in a location prohibited by the guidelines and it was unsafe, it was why I filed the SBA. I removed the SBA and apologized to the cache owner. I am not sure where you see the problem, an SBA log is always placed by someone other than the cache owner. Are you telling me that you are never going to file an SBA on a cache or that you have never made a mistake?

 

My point to this one is that an email to the cache owner instead of a public log referencing the cache and your concerns would have been more appropriate. The "I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU BECAUSE I HAVE....." attitude really does nothing in promoting the hobby as you say you do in past topics.

 

 

You are free to place any cache you want and that really seems to bother the OP, not me. Read what he is saying, his complaint is that people are placing caches "because they can".

 

Maybe ask the OP to expand a bit on that one.

 

<sniff> <sniff> I smell angst in Medicine Hat

 

Gee, and I thought I cleaned that off the bottom of my shoes!!!

Edited November 25, 2006 by The MadHatters

[+kitkatt1960]

I read all of the responses, and I have come to the conclusion that each and every one of you needs to hear my appology.

 

 

My aplogy to all

 

Now that I have done this and other formal moves.... lets see if the trend continues.

 

Fred,

Whom by the way is not affraid of being known

VE6FRM

[+wavector]

When a self appointed "Quality Controller" speaks up about others caches in a negative way two things could happen;

1. The cache owner gets upset/angry/frustrated and chooses not to place more caches and /or removes the one in question.

2. Others read these comments and make a decision not to find these caches and the same results may happen.

 

Who do you imagine has appointed themselves the Self Appointed Quality Controller? Do you think that was the OP's intention starting this thread?

 

So now my beliefs are wrong. In the case of a private family cemetary, if the owners are in favor of it, NO PROBLEM

 

Compare this to your original post, are they?

 

And why would cachers think it neccessary to hide something in a cemetery is beyond me. Lack of respect is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

So in a nutshell you think maybe the OP is just doing a little harmless venting but the real issues are still other peoples caches?

You think the issues are with other people' caches and other people's logs?

You see problems with more than one local cacher and more than one local cache?

According to your post my log on "SAY WHAT YOU WANT" is a problem because you think the hider is responsible for the search damage?

I found a micro where the cache description says there is a Small and I posted in my log I was surrpised to see a micro and you see that as a problem as well?

 

Note that I didn't start a thread in a public forum complaining that my enjoyment of this activity was being compromised because of other peoples caches or logs. I will let the logs on the caches I find and on the caches I hide speak for themselves.

[+wavector]

Archiving Our Town?

 

I am not sure why you are archiving Our Town but it is your cache and your decision. I would not archive a cache because someone complained about it, if I did that then I would have a few less caches. I have had complaints about several caches but I take it all with a grain of salt. A discussion of quality in caching is almost certain to bring differing viewpoints to the fore and there is never a problem in having different viewpoints. I think it is fair to point out that you are a cacher that has not logged many of the local hiking caches, Beaver Creek has been there for years and you have never walked the miles to find it. Telling everyone you have to drive a hundred miles to find a cache may be melodramatic but it isn't accurate. I am curious as to why you won't bother finding any of the local hiking caches but have time to come into the forums to complain that no one is placing caches you like or that others are placing caches because they can.

I am not sure why you wish to make things adversarial in Medicine Hat. I am not sure why there seems to be so many issues with other cachers or other caches, it is clear that MadHatters is taking the same station that you have taken and the problems he has identified now extend to the logging practices used by others, liability issues on caches hidden by other geocachers, permission issues ranging from the Provincial Parks to the local mall.

 

This does not bode well for the activity in our area.

People hiding caches "because they can" is where you started and I have to say I still don't see a problem with that. Perhaps you will expound as MadHatters suggested?

 

The issues have been extended to cover how others log caches, how others search for caches, how others hide caches and how others deal with permission issues. Your apology doesn't dampen things much, your place in an imaginary food chain has very little to do with your posts in these forums and nothing to do with the conversation as it has happened so far. Archiving Our Town certainly takes care of the fact that the micros were attached to living trees, lampposts, signs and benches with staples and screws and this isn't controversial so much as it is against the listing guidelines. I mentioned this when we went for coffee. At some point your cache might have been drawn to the attention of this listing site by another geocacher but I doubt it.

 

In any case I can tell you that I have found every one of your caches with the exception of Pelican Reach (which we were going to do last weekend but never managed to get there) and I will let my logs speak for themselves. The problems with Our Town had nothing to do with "my opinions" but were related to the guidelines on this listing service and I can honestly say that I would rather see the problems corrected than see the cache archived (this is true even of caches that I didn't enjoy because I know that others will), we need all the caches we have and then we need a whole bunch more.

 

I am not afraid of anyone knowing who I am either, my particulars have been included in several newspaper articles and I even got interviewed for the TV news one day!

 

David

[+The MadHatters]

Who do you imagine has appointed themselves the Self Appointed Quality Controller? Do you think that was the OP's intention starting this thread?

 

I know not the intentions of the OP. Ask the OP. All I know is that if it walks like a duck................QUACK

 

Compare this to your original post, are they?

 

Not much I can do ifthe owners of a family cemetary say OKAY except ignore it.

 

And why would cachers think it neccessary to hide something in a cemetery is beyond me. Lack of respect is the first thing that comes to mind.

 

Still beyond me as to why a cemetary needs to be trampled all over for a game.

 

So in a nutshell you think maybe the OP is just doing a little harmless venting but the real issues are still other peoples caches?

 

I think it's venting, But I will get Dr. Phils expert advise.

 

You think the issues are with other people' caches and other people's logs?

 

I am entiltled to my thoughts(quickly verified, yes, I still live in Canada and not in Kanuckistan)

 

You see problems with more than one local cacher and more than one local cache?

 

I may. And when the rules are used to condemn one cache, I just made a note of others that may be in the same boat.

 

According to your post my log on "SAY WHAT YOU WANT" is a problem because you think the hider is responsible for the search damage?

 

No, but why not question a location that damage has occured in, yet question anothers cachers abilities because a micro didn't agree with your dog.

 

I found a micro where the cache description says there is a Small and I posted in my log I was surrpised to see a micro and you see that as a problem as well?

 

One man's small is another man's micro.

 

Note that I didn't start a thread in a public forum complaining that my enjoyment of this activity was being compromised because of other peoples caches or logs.

 

Noted

 

I will let the logs on the caches I find and on the caches I hide speak for themselves.

 

Some of your hides are very well done, I will give you that. Some I have chosen to ignore, and I hope you respect that. And some of your logs do speak volumes, Intentional or not.

 

And I see that one of the so called offender caches have been archived. I do hope that my ramblings have not been the reason. If so, I'll send off a monkey .

 

And since everyone is coming out of the closet with their real identities,

 

Shawn

VE6TEQ

The Mad one in The Madhatters

Widowmaker to the old CB'ers

Pigshanks everywhere else

[+The MadHatters]

I am not sure why you wish to make things adversarial in Medicine Hat. I am not sure why there seems to be so many issues with other cachers or other caches, it is clear that MadHatters is taking the same station that you have taken and the problems he has identified now extend to the logging practices used by others, liability issues on caches hidden by other geocachers, permission issues ranging from the Provincial Parks to the local mall.

 

You first brought up that Our Town was in violation of the rules in a post that was written by you, then for what ever reason removed. I was just bringing to light other local caches that could be labelled as "In Violation". What made you single out this cache. One from someone you seem to have conflict with. I've seen all the points on this multi. I wasn't a bloody 10"spike holding these in place. It was a tiny threaded hook. Damage done - no, against the regs - yes. So what about the others. Can you please give me your take on the rest of the list I compiled.

[FlagFinder]

i do a lot of dense caching mainly because i have no way around other than to walk or bike gets kinda hard when geocaching is illegal in your favorite county park that takes up half the town. yet i do like quality caches and you dont see to many i try to look for stuff that i find might interest people such as the base of our town founders farm no one knew it was there when i placed the cache or the nicest park around or an extremely good camo by when you find it your third time around you wonder how you missed it. although i like to find creative containers like my first cache an easter egg hunt its excellent for the kids but i have come into times where i get out of hand usually in the summer when i have nothing to do and i start hiding like crazy in one day when i only wanted to hide one good one luckily our cache reviewer will remind us when we are getting a little out of hand i will most likely change my ways of hiding once i get a license soon

[+wavector]

One from someone you seem to have conflict with.

 

Actually the opening post was made by Fred, not by me. My reply was helpful and not adversarial. I didn't single his cache out, it is the only local cache that is in clear violation of the guidelines.

 

The list you have compiled is a list of caches that you suspect might have permission issues, there is not a single violation of the guidelines - There are no bans on geocaching in Medicine Hat, there are no bans on geocaching in Provincial Parks, the bridge isn't deemed a terrorist target and the cache at the mall is placed in public location. I am not sure why you and Fred want to steer this to an adversarial situation, it is geocaching and geocaching is supposed to be fun.

 

My advice was helpful, my post is right there in the thread. Geocaching is a community effort, we are all responsible for every aspect of the geocaching landscape. Geocaching broadens our horizons. If you had found that same family cemetery in Zortmann you might have a different view of geocaching in cemeteries and what it might mean to others, is that not so? If Fred had found a geocache where the hider mentioned the difficulty of getting everything in place without using screws or staples then he might have had that guideline at the forefront when he hid OUR TOWN, is that not so?

Embracing all aspects of geocaching also broadens horizons and it will change the way you see the world and the people in it. Geoachers aren't just "feel good" environmentalists, here in Medicine Hat geocachers have helped move tons of garbage into the dump. The owner of the SAY WHAT YOU WANT cache contacted me when he first read your log and I went to the site to inspect it on his behalf as he couldn't get there and he was concerned. I have never met Gib and we only know each other through geocaching. I told him that your description of the damage was accurate, I suggested a better clue might help and even passed on the links to JohnnyGeo's Electrical Safety website. To advance the activity we all have to work together, if a geocacher uses a felt pen to write coordinates on a road sign in Connecticut, we are adversely affected in Alberta. If eklector works with the Saskatchewan side of the Cypress Hills Park to explain geocaching we benefit here on the Alberta side of the park, everyone benefits from positive activity.

I did mention the screws to Fred when we went out for coffee, I thought that was better than an email. Fred is free to ignore every cache I place as are you and it won't bother me in the least, really. My contributions to the geocaching landscape may not suit your fancy but misrepresenting your approach to geocaching and identifying me as the culprit for your lack of joy isn't really unifying is it? I don't see the point in complaining that people hide caches because they can, I have asked Fred to explain that and perhaps he will. I really don't agree with Fred's view that the activity in our area is in trouble, we have many good hiders and many new geocachers who are enthusiastic about what they like and I think geoaching will continue to grow. I really would rather work together than see any type of adversarial situation develop and this has always been my stance.

I actually thought of Fred and Cathy when I tried to decipher this cache in Manitoba the other day.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Originally there was an underlying current that the placed caches would be tied to one of the following:

1) A unique geophysical phenonomena..... like a cliff on the praries, or a prarie in the mountains...

2) A unique view of the area....top of the highest hill on a really flat plain....

3) A location with a unique piece of history attached to it.... Like the old location for a moved town or factory...or a farm ...or the first oil well in the country or whatever.....

When you found one of those caches you actually learned something.

....

Lately however the "I" generation has moved in.

I can place a cache....

I can put it somewhere that I can get to it easy.

I dont care if anyone else likes it

I am the only one that counts. ...

 

There are as many or more of the former caches than there ever have been. However there are only so many suitable locations especially close by and those fill up first. Then people make do with the rest of the landscape we live in. There is a real irony in that people tend to hate urban caches but we live in an urban world on a daily basis.

 

A couple of more I generation quotes.

 

I think all caches should be the kind I like.

I'll complain about the ones that I don't like.

 

A side comment. All caches are placed for the pleasure of the hider. If they got no enjoyment out of placing a cache they would not do it at all. Some caches provide more enjoyment than others. In time they will learn this and place those kinds of caches. Normally those are the ones that garner good logs. But you never know. Some people live in opposite world and love hate logs.

[+Renegade Knight]

Have Fun... and enjoy... after all this is supposed to be a hobby!

I find it interesting that you give a rant belittling some people's approach to geocaching, then close with the statement I have quoted above. Perhaps you should take your own advice?

 

I've noticed that as well. Any post or email that says "This is supposed to be fun" in any variation means that they are not having fun and they are about to blame someone else for their lack of fun. I've never seen one of those then lead to sunshine filled prose.

[+The MadHatters]

One from someone you seem to have conflict with.

 

Actually the opening post was made by Fred, not by me. My reply was helpful and not adversarial. I didn't single his cache out, it is the only local cache that is in clear violation of the guidelines.

 

The list you have compiled is a list of caches that you suspect might have permission issues, there is not a single violation of the guidelines - There are no bans on geocaching in Medicine Hat, there are no bans on geocaching in Provincial Parks, the bridge isn't deemed a terrorist target and the cache at the mall is placed in public location. I am not sure why you and Fred want to steer this to an adversarial situation, it is geocaching and geocaching is supposed to be fun.

 

My advice was helpful, my post is right there in the thread. Geocaching is a community effort, we are all responsible for every aspect of the geocaching landscape. Geocaching broadens our horizons. If you had found that same family cemetery in Zortmann you might have a different view of geocaching in cemeteries and what it might mean to others, is that not so? If Fred had found a geocache where the hider mentioned the difficulty of getting everything in place without using screws or staples then he might have had that guideline at the forefront when he hid OUR TOWN, is that not so?

Embracing all aspects of geocaching also broadens horizons and it will change the way you see the world and the people in it. Geoachers aren't just "feel good" environmentalists, here in Medicine Hat geocachers have helped move tons of garbage into the dump. The owner of the SAY WHAT YOU WANT cache contacted me when he first read your log and I went to the site to inspect it on his behalf as he couldn't get there and he was concerned. I have never met Gib and we only know each other through geocaching. I told him that your description of the damage was accurate, I suggested a better clue might help and even passed on the links to JohnnyGeo's Electrical Safety website. To advance the activity we all have to work together, if a geocacher uses a felt pen to write coordinates on a road sign in Connecticut, we are adversely affected in Alberta. If eklector works with the Saskatchewan side of the Cypress Hills Park to explain geocaching we benefit here on the Alberta side of the park, everyone benefits from positive activity.

I did mention the screws to Fred when we went out for coffee, I thought that was better than an email. Fred is free to ignore every cache I place as are you and it won't bother me in the least, really. My contributions to the geocaching landscape may not suit your fancy but misrepresenting your approach to geocaching and identifying me as the culprit for your lack of joy isn't really unifying is it? I don't see the point in complaining that people hide caches because they can, I have asked Fred to explain that and perhaps he will. I really don't agree with Fred's view that the activity in our area is in trouble, we have many good hiders and many new geocachers who are enthusiastic about what they like and I think geoaching will continue to grow. I really would rather work together than see any type of adversarial situation develop and this has always been my stance.

I actually thought of Fred and Cathy when I tried to decipher this cache in Manitoba the other day.

 

You have made it clear that Fred has the only cache in the area that is in violation. I will agree his is in violation, and Fred’s archiving it may or may not mean he agrees as well. But I feel that there are a few more questionable ones in the area. You do not. You choose to point out Fred's cache is defacing public property, yet because a cache is hid in a public portion of a privately owned mall permission is not required. Oh well, there are no real rules, only guidelines

 

These are listing guidelines only. Before a cache is listed a volunteer will review the page for inaccuracies, bad coordinates, and appropriateness before posting the cache to the site. The physical cache site is not verified. As the cache owner, you are responsible for the placement and care of your cache.

You will interpret them one way, I will interpret them another. Fred yet another.

 

I could go on, but no, enough is enough, this is getting old. I've wasted too much time on this crap.

 

Dave, I will continue to find caches I want to find and ignore the ones that do not appeal to me. When I feel it is time for me to hide a cache, I will. If you or your dog choose to find it, Great. If your dog finds it unchallenging, Oh well! And I do hope that you find that perfect cache, and that it will challenge you and your dog in ways that you have never been challenged before. Good Luck!

 

Fred, I do hope you can find a way to unarchive “Our Town”. If you need a hand, just give a holler. I will try not to be to judgemental, and even offer up some solutions to help you past this caching hurdle that you seem to have stumbled upon. Maybe a coffee or two and we can get it wavector Approved!!!!! Oh!! and Fred, if you choose to keep Our Town archived, it was a great multi and it will always be re"MEMBER"ed. Say Hi to Cathy.

 

 

Shawn

[+wavector]

we can get it wavector Approved

 

You have this wrong.

 

kittkatt1960 is the one who has issues with local caches and kittkatt1960 is the one who has had his joy compromised by others placing caches because they can. kittkatt1960 has opened this public forum for discussion of the problems he has experienced with other local cachers and other local caches. I had no complaints. I responded to this forum topic started by kittkatt1960 by pointing out that there is only one local cache that is in clear violation of the guidelines and that cache was placed by kittkatt1960. kittkatt1960 was the initial complainer in this thread but you have added a lot of other local caches to the problem list, apparently you and kittkatt1960 have a LOT of problems with MANY of the local caches.

 

These people can read you know and in the long term you would be doing your credibility a favour if you stop putting my name in there as the person complaining about the local cachers and the local caches. Imputing that I am the one who decided to complain isn't going to work and it detracts from your credibility.

 

I still want to believe that we don't have to have an adversarial situation, there is no need to archive caches or get mad at other cachers or caches. It started off as a pretty clear complaint and that is Fred's complaint, his criticism is broad and sweeping and he should expect responses.

Regardless of the complaint, I do hope that Fred enjoys geocaching, even if Fred thinks that I don't. I will continue to hide caches even though Fred clearly complained specifically about the number of caches I have hidden because I can. I gave Fred an honest reply, he needs to get out geocaching more and I linked a pile of caches (none of mine) he could go find, all local. I am not sure why it has developed to the point where you think I am the one complaining and you and Fred need to pass my muster as I am clearly not a local quality meter, Fred won't even look for my caches because they are all so bland. As for my logs, they are an accurate recounting of my adventure, that is the reason I write them. If my dog can get out of the truck, she likes the cache, if it is a decent walk she loves the cache, if my kids can trade they like the cache. If you don't want to hear about the adventures that I have with my kids and my dog while out geocaching you could just skip my logs. Apparently Fred can dish out criticism but isn't prepared to take any in return. I hope that this cloudy weather will just pass and we can go forward in harmony, perhaps we should get together for coffee again and make it an actual Event Cache so that we get more of the local cachers to show up, most of the Medicine Hat geocachers don't read these forums but would receive the automated notice of an upcoming event. I even have an idea for a good place we could go in Historic Downtown?

Edited November 27, 2006 by wavector