Hiding a cache on a Wildlife Preserve

[tracama]

I am concerned about the number of visitors to my cache. I know the numbers will settle down, however quite a few have mentioned that they have scared a deer or two, either on the way in or out. I know we all respect wildlife and do our best not to disturb the environment, but I have seen evidence at 2 other of my caches of broken branches and bark "accidently" pulled off trees. The tree in question was marked for removal, so I purposely did not place my cache there. Do you think I should remove the cache in question or post a gentle reminder to respect the environment?

[+Bad_CRC]

I am concerned about the number of visitors to my cache. I know the numbers will settle down, however quite a few have mentioned that they have scared a deer or two, either on the way in or out. I know we all respect wildlife and do our best not to disturb the environment, but I have seen evidence at 2 other of my caches of broken branches and bark "accidently" pulled off trees. The tree in question was marked for removal, so I purposely did not place my cache there. Do you think I should remove the cache in question or post a gentle reminder to respect the environment?

 

 

you might want to. Despite the lip service given to it, many cachers are not sensitive to that kind of thing. I've noticed there are quite a lot who think it's the greatest thing if their dogs chase wildlife, or even kill something while they are out in the woods.

 

if it's a sensitive area, it might be better to not send a lot of people into it, though someone else might just put another one out there.

[+Ambrosia]

There's a few things that you could do.

 

You could post a reminder on the page. I would do that no matter what. But I'm still not sure how much reminders work, really. Either people are respectful or they're not. But at least you've done it for your own satisfaction.

 

You could make it for premium members only, that may cut down on the amount of people.

 

How big is the cache? If it's an ammo with the parallel sticks going for it, while it's not as compelling, it's very obvious and should cut down on hurting the area while looking for it.

 

The biggest thing to cut down on people would be to make it a multicache, but since you already have it as a regular cache you shouldn't change the history. But it's something to keep in mind for the future. I have several multis, and they get much less traffic than a regular cache.

 

You could move it, but if you move it a hundred feet or more (everyone has a different opinion) you're getting to the point where you should just make a new cache because you've changed the location so much.

 

You could archive it.

 

You could leave it and say that although we're trying to be careful, the land is there for us as well as the animals. (Oh, did I open a can of worms with that one.)

 

I'm sure others have even more ideas. These are a few that popped into my head at the moment.

[+double-z]

I think sometimes we over analyze a situation. Sounds like your cache is in a great spot, people get to go out in the woods to find a cache and as a bonus they also have a wonderful oppurtunity to see wildlife in their natural habitat. I seriously doubt the cachers you mention are the first humans the deer have ever seen in or near that location and I also doubt seriously that the deer were traumatized by seeing humans. Just another perspective.

Good Luck !!

[+Ride The Heights]

when I place a cache I look to see how fragile is the vegetation around the cache. If the area has invasive plants that do not belong in the environment, then let the area get trampled. you are actually helping the rest of the ecosystem by reducing the impact of the invading plant.

 

I posted a concern at the last cache i found that i noticed cachers were scrambling across the rocks distroying the moss and lichen, breaking branches looking for the cache. The spot I felt was in an undisturbed area and was being quickly worn after only a few caches arrived. There were just as nice hiding areas just a short distance away where people were not crashing through branches and tearing moss off of rocks.

 

I have placed my caches in places where ferns and moss are not trampled. I even created a multi cache so that the waypoints guided the cachers around and then through a bog on a boardwalk so that the fragile eco system of the bog was not disturbed.

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

I know we all respect wildlife and do our best not to disturb the environment, but I have seen evidence at 2 other of my caches of broken branches and bark "accidently" pulled off trees.

 

You mention seeing deer in the immediate area. Did you know that at certain times of the year the bucks rub their antlers against trees and branches? Their doing so WILL break smaller branches (we've seen branches up to 3/4 inch thick broken) and they rub their antlers against tree trunks and remove the bark with this rubbing.

 

You may wish to verify who (or what) is "damaging" the tree before accusing another cacher.

 

Don't forget that other animals have been known to leave their marks on trees as well, like bears (they leave slash marks).

 

John

[topografix]

Dogs running off-leash are probably the biggest threat to wildlife in the area. Lots of animals will avoid an area if there is canine scent. You might want to set the No Dogs attribute for your cache.

[+Alan2]

I think we should ban wildlife from around caches. I had one slash through the lid of my plastic container with his teeth. Ruined the cache. I had to drive a 100 miles to replace it. Very inconsiderate of him if you ask me. Well, maybe he was a she.

[+Bad_CRC]

I think we should ban wildlife from around caches. I had one slash through the lid of my plastic container with his teeth. Ruined the cache. I had to drive a 100 miles to replace it. Very inconsiderate of him if you ask me. Well, maybe he was a she.

 

ammo can.

[+Peanuthead]

Since the title of this thread says 'Wildlife Preserve'. I feel it prudent to repost the guidelines sent out a few years ago by the government entity in charge of National Wildlife Refuges:

 

"This communication will serve as notice to your organization that the activity known as geocaching is not permitted on National Wildlife Refuges and is a violation of Federal law. Federal Officers have begun prosecuting individuals

involved in geocaching on National Wildlife Refuges which results in a permanent Federal criminal record following conviction in a Federal court. In the interest of protecting individuals who are being mislead by erroneous information I strongly suggest you update your website to reflect the US Fish and Wildlife Service owned and leased lands as areas not to be used for geocaching."

Law Enforcement Specialist (name withheld)

 

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

Office of Refuge Law Enforcement

4401 N.Fairfax Drive

Arlington, Va 22203

Ph- (number withheld)

[+sbell111]

Lots of places are called wildlife preserves by lots of people. Most of these are not 'National Wildlife Refuges'.

Edited November 23, 2006 by sbell111

[+uxorious]

If I happen to startle some deer while in the woods, it sure doesn't bother me at all. That is the nature of deer, and it does not hurt them at all to be startled by any and everything. Now if someone is harassing them, thats is a different story.

 

As for dogs chasing wildlife, I'm a dog person, and know lots of dog people. No one I know personally will let their dog chase wildlife, or thinks it is fun if they do. I know OF people who do, but most dog owners do not. If it is a true wilderness preserve dogs are not allowed off leash anyway.

 

As for tearing up the local flora. If the cache has been found before, and you are tearing up moss, breaking tree limbs, or just making a mess of things, don't you think you might be looking in the wrong place? How did the cache get discovered before, without tearing everything up?

[+briansnat]

Since the title of this thread says 'Wildlife Preserve'. I feel it prudent to repost the guidelines sent out a few years ago by the government entity in charge of National Wildlife Refuges:

 

"This communication will serve as notice to your organization that the activity known as geocaching is not permitted on National Wildlife Refuges and is a violation of Federal law. Federal Officers have begun prosecuting individuals

involved in geocaching on National Wildlife Refuges which results in a permanent Federal criminal record following conviction in a Federal court. In the interest of protecting individuals who are being mislead by erroneous information I strongly suggest you update your website to reflect the US Fish and Wildlife Service owned and leased lands as areas not to be used for geocaching."

Law Enforcement Specialist (name withheld)

 

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

Office of Refuge Law Enforcement

4401 N.Fairfax Drive

Arlington, Va 22203

Ph- (number withheld)

 

Being that the OP lives in Canada, I don't see how this is relevant.

 

I know we all respect wildlife and do our best not to disturb the environment, but I have seen evidence at 2 other of my caches of broken branches and bark "accidently" pulled off trees.

 

As someone else here mentioned, its common for both deer and bear both rip bark from trees, as do some birds. Unless a cache is a micro hidden among tree bark, I really don't see why geocachers would have a cause to wader through the woods pulling bark off trees.

 

know the numbers will settle down, however quite a few have mentioned that they have scared a deer or two, either on the way in or out.

 

Anybody who walks throught the woods for whatever reason is going to scare a few deer. The deer run a few hundred feet then settle back down. It's not an issue. Dogs off leash that chase deer are a different story.

 

Do you think I should remove the cache in question or post a gentle reminder to respect the environment?

 

No. The vast majority of geocachers have a great deal of respect for the environment. For those a note is pointless and could be viewed as somewhat condescending. I'm sure there are a handful of geocachers who have a total disregard for the environment and no note on a cache page will make them behave appropriately.

Edited November 25, 2006 by briansnat

[+Alan2]

I think we should ban wildlife from around caches. I had one slash through the lid of my plastic container with his teeth. Ruined the cache. I had to drive a 100 miles to replace it. Very inconsiderate of him if you ask me. Well, maybe he was a she.

 

ammo can.

 

Yup-that's what I did.

[tracama]

I think sometimes we over analyze a situation. Sounds like your cache is in a great spot, people get to go out in the woods to find a cache and as a bonus they also have a wonderful oppurtunity to see wildlife in their natural habitat. I seriously doubt the cachers you mention are the first humans the deer have ever seen in or near that location and I also doubt seriously that the deer were traumatized by seeing humans. Just another perspective.

Good Luck !!

 

Thanks for making me laugh!

[tracama]

I know we all respect wildlife and do our best not to disturb the environment, but I have seen evidence at 2 other of my caches of broken branches and bark "accidently" pulled off trees.

 

You mention seeing deer in the immediate area. Did you know that at certain times of the year the bucks rub their antlers against trees and branches? Their doing so WILL break smaller branches (we've seen branches up to 3/4 inch thick broken) and they rub their antlers against tree trunks and remove the bark with this rubbing.

 

You may wish to verify who (or what) is "damaging" the tree before accusing another cacher.

 

Don't forget that other animals have been known to leave their marks on trees as well, like bears (they leave slash marks).

 

John

 

Damage was done at a different cache in a "people" park with planes flying over.

[tracama]

Since the title of this thread says 'Wildlife Preserve'. I feel it prudent to repost the guidelines sent out a few years ago by the government entity in charge of National Wildlife Refuges:

 

"This communication will serve as notice to your organization that the activity known as geocaching is not permitted on National Wildlife Refuges and is a violation of Federal law. Federal Officers have begun prosecuting individuals

involved in geocaching on National Wildlife Refuges which results in a permanent Federal criminal record following conviction in a Federal court. In the interest of protecting individuals who are being mislead by erroneous information I strongly suggest you update your website to reflect the US Fish and Wildlife Service owned and leased lands as areas not to be used for geocaching."

Law Enforcement Specialist (name withheld)

 

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

Office of Refuge Law Enforcement

4401 N.Fairfax Drive

Arlington, Va 22203

Ph- (number withheld)

 

 

No worries mate! It's a Canadian site owned by the city. Permission obtained.

[+IGJoe]

People are going to have an impact on the area however I think most people forget that we are a part of (not above) the ecosystem when we are in it. If we only hide caches where humans/cachers will not affect the area we are going to be left with nothing but lamppost micros.

[+ReadyOrNot]

People are going to have an impact on the area however I think most people forget that we are a part of (not above) the ecosystem when we are in it. If we only hide caches where humans/cachers will not affect the area we are going to be left with nothing but lamppost micros.

 

I guess I'm just one of these crazy people that believe animals and nature are here for "US" to enjoy. I don't believe we are a part of the ecosystem, the ecosystem is here for US. I think this whole thread is just plain funny. The fact that people are actually concerned about a deer being frightened is beyond humorous. What's next? Concern about the psychological welfare of squirrels? They are kind of jumpy.. Maybe a dose of prozak will fix them right up

[+briansnat]

People are going to have an impact on the area however I think most people forget that we are a part of (not above) the ecosystem when we are in it. If we only hide caches where humans/cachers will not affect the area we are going to be left with nothing but lamppost micros.

 

I guess I'm just one of these crazy people that believe animals and nature are here for "US" to enjoy. I don't believe we are a part of the ecosystem, the ecosystem is here for US. I think this whole thread is just plain funny. The fact that people are actually concerned about a deer being frightened is beyond humorous. What's next? Concern about the psychological welfare of squirrels? They are kind of jumpy.. Maybe a dose of prozak will fix them right up

 

Lets please stick to the original topic and refrain from ridiculing those who have a different opinion. Thanks your your expected cooperation.

[+Bad_CRC]

well his post does go do well to prove the OPs question about whether some geocachers are irresponsible and uncaring of the environment... so it is actually on topic, really. even if unintentional. :shrug:

 

edit: edited to soften language.

Edited December 27, 2006 by Bad_CRC

[tracama]

People are going to have an impact on the area however I think most people forget that we are a part of (not above) the ecosystem when we are in it. If we only hide caches where humans/cachers will not affect the area we are going to be left with nothing but lamppost micros.

 

I guess I'm just one of these crazy people that believe animals and nature are here for "US" to enjoy. I don't believe we are a part of the ecosystem, the ecosystem is here for US. I think this whole thread is just plain funny. The fact that people are actually concerned about a deer being frightened is beyond humorous. What's next? Concern about the psychological welfare of squirrels? They are kind of jumpy.. Maybe a dose of prozak will fix them right up

 

The city in question is becoming over populated with deer. That being said, I still do not want one scared out into traffic, where both animal and/or human could be injured.

 

As a person who works in the field of psychology, we are not amused.

[mtbikernate]

I would keep tabs on the area to make sure that the tree damage isn't being done by the deer or other wildlife. I've seen small trees shredded into toothpicks by bull elk in the rut, so wildlife is certainly capable of damaging trees. A kindly note on the cache page about respecting the wildlife preserve and its intent never hurts. If it helps one person realize that their actions in the woods impact more than just themselves, then it was worth it.

 

As for the deer, I wouldn't worry about them. The deer will get used to the people walking by and before long, they'll hardly even move. Don't worry about cachers scaring them into traffic, either. Deer do a good enough of a job scaring themselves into traffic (especially during the rut).

[+ReadyOrNot]

well his post does go do well to prove the OPs question about whether some geocachers are irresponsible and uncaring of the environment... so it is actually on topic, really. even if unintentional. :shrug:

 

edit: edited to soften language.

 

Hi! I do appreciate the fact that you have an opinion and position on this topic. I also have an opinion and position (I think that's why we are here right?). I do not appreciate being called irresponsible for my opinion. I believe that is a personal attack on me. If you'd like to discuss this topic, I would be more than happy, but a personal attack on me in my opinion is unacceptable. Please refrain from such behavior in the future. Thank you.

 

*EDITITED TO --REALLY-- SOFTEN LANGUAGE*

Edited December 28, 2006 by ReadyOrNot

[+ReadyOrNot]

People are going to have an impact on the area however I think most people forget that we are a part of (not above) the ecosystem when we are in it. If we only hide caches where humans/cachers will not affect the area we are going to be left with nothing but lamppost micros.

 

I guess I'm just one of these crazy people that believe animals and nature are here for "US" to enjoy. I don't believe we are a part of the ecosystem, the ecosystem is here for US. I think this whole thread is just plain funny. The fact that people are actually concerned about a deer being frightened is beyond humorous. What's next? Concern about the psychological welfare of squirrels? They are kind of jumpy.. Maybe a dose of prozak will fix them right up

 

The city in question is becoming over populated with deer. That being said, I still do not want one scared out into traffic, where both animal and/or human could be injured.

 

As a person who works in the field of psychology, we are not amused.

 

I apologize for my comment regarding squirrels taking prozak. I did not realize that my comment would cause such a high level of un-amusement. I have not worked in the field of psychology so certainly can not comprehend the damage that my comments may have caused you.. For that I apologize.

[+IGJoe]

Well I apologize for your apology. Your comments on the creative uses of antidepressants as effective treatement for anxiety inclined wildlife is a humorous take on the application of a medication. It makes no reflection on the users who take the medicine as perscribed. I thought it was funny and I wasn't laughing at people who use it.

 

Back to topic :

Personally I would not be concerned that others have 'startled' deer, in fact I would take that as a sign of success if it was my cache. Seeing wildlife while caching is a rare and valued occassion for most cachers. In my limited experience deer 'usually' don't run very far and would rarely bolt into open ground such as roadway when startled by a hiker.

 

Furthermore I would not be overly concerned about broken branches and such. Mother Nature is very hearty and I think the human race shows great conciet in our belief that the earth needs us to save it. Yes I realize we do damage the earth but my comments about 'we are a part of the ecosystem' are aimed at getting people to realize they don't damage nature by being in it and interacting with it. Nature will assimilate and utilize your presence whether we realize it or not.

[+Planet]

I'm sure the cachers have only startled the deer. I don't think anyone would deliberately sneak up behind them and scream BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA to scare the daylights out of them.

I run into deer in the woods all the time, and when I do, I whistle Fur Elise by Beethoven. They seem to like that tune and stop and listen. It's worked with wild turkeys too.

I was caching one day with a cacher from Utah, and we managed to accidentally corner a deer between a high ledge and a chain link fence. He started pawing the ground and almost snorting like a bull does, so we stood stock still, I started whistling, the deer stopped pawing the ground and we backed away slowly. Then one of us snapped a twig, the deer saw his way through and was gone in a flash.

If a branch breaks off, the tree will close up the scar with more bark. Lots of animals break branches off trees.

[+Renegade Knight]

I am concerned about the number of visitors to my cache. ... Do you think I should remove the cache in question or post a gentle reminder to respect the environment?

If you are concerned about the cache it would be best to archive it. Cachers are like everone else and have morons and idiots who can't seem to read the cache page, and do the right thing.

 

If you keep this in mind when you place the cache you can get a good result. Perhaps your next cache would be in a location where it causes you no concern until the number of visits does settle down.

 

The impact of a cacher finding a correctly hidden cache are on a par with the hikers who are already using the preserve as a recreational area.

[+pcsenn]

"This communication will serve as notice to your organization that the activity known as geocaching is not permitted on National Wildlife Refuges and is a violation of Federal law. Federal Officers have begun prosecuting individuals involved in geocaching on National Wildlife Refuges which results in a permanent Federal criminal record following conviction in a Federal court. In the interest of protecting individuals who are being mislead by erroneous information I strongly suggest you update your website to reflect the US Fish and Wildlife Service owned and leased lands as areas not to be used for geocaching."

Law Enforcement Specialist (name withheld)

 

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

Office of Refuge Law Enforcement

4401 N.Fairfax Drive

Arlington, Va 22203

Ph- (number withheld)

 

The guidelines say there are exceptions to the guidelines... Are caches ever allowed in National Wildlife Refuges in the US? Can permission be granted to violate Federal Law, and place a cache there?

Edited May 4, 2008 by pcsenn

[Keystone]

We are happy to allow exceptions if the cache owner demonstrates very clear permission from the land manager as an exception to their policy.

[+PhxChem]

 

As a person who works in the field of psychology, we are not amused.

 

Does the "we" refer to the other voices that you hear? If not, and you actually do work in the field, do you know of some type of condition where someone has the inability to, as us layman say "take a joke"? Even to the point of finding offence to the inappropriate use of prescription drug? I've seen that somewhere....

 

No one would ever give Prozac to a squirrel....that's what Paxil is for.

 

To keep it on topic, if you're worried about deer being scared by humans, archive it. No need to obsess over something you can't control.

[CoyoteRed]

The guidelines say there are exceptions to the guidelines... Are caches ever allowed in National Wildlife Refuges in the US? Can permission be granted to violate Federal Law, and place a cache there?

What can be listed here has nothing to do with whether caches are allowed on Refuges. I, personally, talked to a high-ranking fellow in DC and he said that NF&W personnel, while having the freedom to allow activities on their lands, have very strict guidelines as to what can be allowed. While talking to some local personnel I was informed it ain't gonna happen.

 

That's not to say it can't happen. The local management has the power to allow caches, but the impression I got was he would be out of a job. Geocaching simply isn't in line with the stated goals of the NF&WS, game conservation is.