Religion Themed Caches

[+USN Radio Chief]

I am considering placing a cache on the grounds of a historical local Catholic Church. I know that there has been much debate about religion and caches....but I'm being very clear about the contents of this cache. Is this appropriate?

 

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

[+Bad_CRC]

please don't.

[nobby.nobbs]

well i would say. location. fine as long as permission granted. contents-no. keep it non religious. saves any trouble or people getting upset.

should anyone want to learn more they can choose to walk into the church.

[+mgbmusic]

I am considering placing a cache on the grounds of a historical local Catholic Church. I know that there has been much debate about religion and caches....but I'm being very clear about the contents of this cache. Is this appropriate?

 

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

 

I'd have to agree. I am a religious person myself, and I think sharing God's word with others is an important aspect of the faith.

 

having said that, however, there are those who would take offense at this type of cache, and I'd be surprised if it got published in the first place. If I were a local reviewer (and please don't take that as an offer!) I would have to say no. Location is great, and interesting, but the SWAG would have to be neutral. Above all things, caches must remain neutral lest others think they are being excluded. I personally would visit the cache as you posted, but others would ignore it, and still others would complain to Groundspeak, the forums, their neigbhbors, and anyone else woh would listen about the opressive, blah blah blah, SWAG. Caches have been turned down for less. You might be able to get it through, but at what cost?

 

Bottom line - stay neutral. You can post as many disclaimers on the cache page as you want, but at the end of the fay, there will still be people who visit and take offense, just as there will be people who complain that their coffee was served hot, they idn't know you shouldn't drive with the windshield screen in place, and how were they supposed to know they shouldn't pump gas while smoking...

 

--MGb

[+USN Radio Chief]

Thanks mqbmusic -

 

I might just place a micro at the church and stash my ammo box with neutral swag somewhere else. I was just trying to think of cache items that I myself would like to find.

 

I'm so tired of getting to a cache in a rather boring spot (and there are a lot of them out there), opening it and finding the following contents: half a barbie doll, an old hot wheels, a used eraser, a rusted pocket knife, a dirty matted stuffed animal, a you're going to hell phamplet, a plastic spider ring, and a broken happy meal toy. I carry pretty good stuff to swap, though I leave it in my bag most of the time and sign TNLN. Often I leave something nice and take nothing at all. (I would never never leave a religious item of any kind in someone else's cache, but I wouldn't take offense to finding a religious cache either.)

 

If people are going to take me to an uninteresting spot please have some good swag for me to trade. I don't mind a junky cache if the location is historical, beatuiful, neat, or otherwise of the beaten trail.

 

But I agree with you now-- neutrality is the best policy, simply because folks are too thick to read the cache discription that I will post. Then they find a box of Catholic oriented items and instead of just signing the log and moving on or skipping to the next cache, they start complaining about whatever. It takes a great deal to offend me. Sometimes I just assume that others are as hard-skinned as myself but I know that most people arn't.

Edited November 22, 2006 by navycrackerjack

[Suscrofa]

<moderator edit>

Edited November 22, 2006 by Quiggle

[+briansnat]

There is nothing wrong with placing religious items like rosary beads, crucifixes, stars of David and Korans in a cache. Some people might appreciate these and those who don't can trade for something else. I think where most people draw the line are those pamphlets meant to proselytize.

 

There is nothing wrong with religious themed caches, nor is there anything wrong with placing a cache on church property.

 

But if you have a religious themed cache with pamphlets and items geared towards a single religion that is placed on church property, then you have a cache with an agenda and that is not permitted under the guidelines.

Edited November 22, 2006 by briansnat

[+Happy Humphrey]

I wouldn't be offended at finding a religious-themed cache full of Catholic items, but it's worth pointing out that it may as well be full of McToys etc for people like me, as I have no interest in taking such items.

 

I agree that it starts to look like a cache with an agenda if everything about it is to do with a particular church (or charity, or association...) and I would probably avoid such a cache if I was in the area. I go caching to escape all that stuff! So a wise decision to stock it with neutral (quality) swaps and encourage cachers to trade equal or up.

[+kohldad]

I don't see the problem either. If an owner has the right to limit the requirements as they see fit which is upsetting to others, why isn't it right for an owner to place religous items in a cache. If a person fails to read the cache description and then gets upset because of the contents, then it's the cacher's fault.

 

It is my responsibility as a cacher to determine the safety and adherence to my GeoCaching etiquette when choosing the caches to visit. I will be going by a cache that would be a FTF, however, since it requires that I visit a bar to find out the owner's favorite drink, I will not visit it because it doesn't fit, but that is only my opinion and I have no problem with the cache being placed or approved.

 

However, I could see having a problem if the cache contained items that the general public finds offensive. Otherwise, if it fits the described guidelines and you have permission from the property owners, I have no problems at all with it. In fact, if I was in the area I would probably have the cache on my to-do list because of its location.

[+sbell111]

I am considering placing a cache on the grounds of a historical local Catholic Church. I know that there has been much debate about religion and caches....but I'm being very clear about the contents of this cache. Is this appropriate?

 

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

I would enjoy finding that cache.

[cezanne]

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

 

As I do not live in the US, my answer that I feel that a cache as you describe it is perfectly ok, will not be helpful for you. I am actually very glad to live in a country where the cachers are given much more freedom what items they wish to put into the caches (this includes caches with no swag at all).

 

When I read the suggestions given to you in some replies to restrict yourself to neutral stuff, I was quite amazed that people believe that such items do exist. Actually, most items in the real world are not neutral at all. Today's world is a complex one. Some examples for trade items that can be found in caches that are not at all neutral: a CD of a pop star who is using drugs (something not at all uncommon), items that have been produced in developping countries at the expense of exploiting the people there, items the production of which has very negative effects on the environment and should rather not be produced, many (if not most) books, items promoted by athletes who committed doping offences etc (I mentioned only examples with a certain type of negative touch - I could also have listed examples for non-neutral items where a exists a positive bias).

BTW: McToys are not neutral either (for several reasons).

 

Someone who believes that, for example, a leather wallet produced in Asia by poor exploited children is something superior to a rosary, is in my opinion acting in a quite hypocritical manner. The only solution to achieve real neutrality would be forbid trade items in caches at all.

 

No cacher is forced to trade. If he/she does not like the swag in a certain cache, a TNLN action is always possible.

 

Cezanne

[+Wayfinders]

I see no problem with it personally. I would suggest a good explaination as to your intent on the cover page.

That way, if someone is offended or put off in some way they can simply ignore the hide. I also find it disturbing to find items in caches of a sectarian charactor. I would be prepared for some negative feedback however.....this ammo box could very well be a pandora's box.

[+Snoogans]

I am considering placing a cache on the grounds of a historical local Catholic Church. I know that there has been much debate about religion and caches....but I'm being very clear about the contents of this cache. Is this appropriate?

 

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

 

Heck, I'm never offended when I find religious tracts and other religious items in a cache. They are no threat to me.

 

Being Agnostic, (whatever floats your boat is just fine by me and also having been born Catholic) I wouldn't/couldn't be offended by that cache. A Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Wicca, or Pagan cache couldn’t offend me either. I think a Church of Satan cache would cross the line with me though. (Is that an Agnostic double standard?) Ask yourself if you would be offended by any of those in your neighborhood.

 

Now, would you be offended if I hid a really clever puzzle cache (Let's call it HMS Beagle) that was based on Darwin and the theory of evolution? It would take hours of research to find the clues to the puzzle. You would have to become totally immersed in the theory of evolution. What if your child tried to solve the puzzle when you weren't watching?

 

It's early yet, I could see this becoming a heated debate. Please let us know if the cache is approved. I'm sorry to say that I doubt that it will:

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

[Luckless]

I'd have no problem with it. Don't think I'd want to trade for anything, but that is my perogative. When I first heard about geocaching I thought it would be great to find a corporate sponsor for your cache willing to put some real good stuff in there, but then I was told the rules. Even had a shop owner to whom I explained about travel bugs ask about getting one and sending it out as an advertisement for her shop. Had to tell her no. Oh well, I can see the reason for keeping it noncommercial.

[+mgbmusic]

I am considering placing a cache on the grounds of a historical local Catholic Church. I know that there has been much debate about religion and caches....but I'm being very clear about the contents of this cache. Is this appropriate?

 

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

 

Heck, I'm never offended when I find religious tracts and other religious items in a cache. They are no threat to me.

 

Being Agnostic, (whatever floats your boat is just fine by me and also having been born Catholic) I wouldn't/couldn't be offended by that cache. A Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Wicca, or Pagan cache couldn’t offend me either. I think a Church of Satan cache would cross the line with me though. (Is that an Agnostic double standard?) Ask yourself if you would be offended by any of those in your neighborhood.

 

Now, would you be offended if I hid a really clever puzzle cache (Let's call it HMS Beagle) that was based on Darwin and the theory of evolution? It would take hours of research to find the clues to the puzzle. You would have to become totally immersed in the theory of evolution. What if your child tried to solve the puzzle when you weren't watching?

 

It's early yet, I could see this becoming a heated debate. Please let us know if the cache is approved. I'm sorry to say that I doubt that it will:

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

Well golly gee, maybe spoke too soon. Having seen some forum topics regarding 9/11 caches, etc. I'll stand by my original statement that:

 

a) It prolly won't get approved

It's not worth the potential sh&&storm you may be bringing down on yourself.

 

--MGb

[cezanne]

 

It's early yet, I could see this becoming a heated debate. Please let us know if the cache is approved. I'm sorry to say that I doubt that it will:

 

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

I am sorry, but I do not manage to follow your argument.

It appears that no one here is offended by the fact that the hideout is planned to be close to a church. The discussion seems to be concerned just with the trading items.

 

In my opinion, most cachers either choose trading items that they do not need any longer and want to get rid of the stuff (certainly not the case in the case described by the OP) or that they regard as nice.

Why is it any better if someone regards some electronic gadgets, such as resistors etc as nice and interesting stuff to be put into a cache as if someone put rosaries, cooking books prepared by a religious order etc into a cache? I do not hope that the person who puts resistors and the like into his/her cache or a certain selection of books or McToy items wants to convey any sort of message to me. Human beings do have a brain and the ability to decide on their own what items they want to own and which not.

 

It appears quite ridiculous to me if one has to come up with an explanation why one puts certain trading items (non-dangerous ones!) into a cache. Hopefully no one would come up with the idea that McToys are put into caches to either encourage or discourage (depending on one's personal attitude) the visit of fastfood restaurants.

 

Cezanne

[+mgbmusic]

I was quite amazed that people believe that such items do exist. Actually, most items in the real world are not neutral at all.

 

-Snip -

 

Someone who believes that, for example, a leather wallet produced in Asia by poor exploited children is something superior to a rosary, is in my opinion acting in a quite hypocritical manner. The only solution to achieve real neutrality would be forbid trade items in caches at all.

 

Who's more hypocritical. The person who owns "negative" items, or the person who owns them, and knows it?

 

--MGb

[+BlueDeuce]

My only concern is your expectations towards the quality of trade items in caches. Regardless of what you start out with any cache will eventually degrade to half a barbie doll, an old hot wheels, and a used eraser, unless you are willing to continually restock your caches at your expense.

 

It’s just the way it is.

[+emurock]

I am considering placing a cache on the grounds of a historical local Catholic Church. I know that there has been much debate about religion and caches....but I'm being very clear about the contents of this cache. Is this appropriate?

 

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

I would enjoy finding that cache.

I would enjoy findind that cache too and sounds like some nice swag.

[+sbell111]

My only concern is your expectations towards the quality of trade items in caches. Regardless of what you start out with any cache will eventually degrade to half a barbie doll, an old hot wheels, and a used eraser, unless you are willing to continually restock your caches at your expense.

 

It’s just the way it is.

You know, there is quite a market for old hot wheels cars.

[+mgbmusic]

I am sorry, but I do not manage to follow your argument.

It appears that no one here is offended by the fact that the hideout is planned to be close to a church. The discussion seems to be concerned just with the trading items.

 

In my opinion, most cachers either choose trading items that they do not need any longer and want to get rid of the stuff (certainly not the case in the case described by the OP) or that they regard as nice.

Why is it any better if someone regards some electronic gadgets, such as resistors etc as nice and interesting stuff to be put into a cache as if someone put rosaries, cooking books prepared by a religious order etc into a cache? I do not hope that the person who puts resistors and the like into his/her cache or a certain selection of books or McToy items wants to convey any sort of message to me. Human beings do have a brain and the ability to decide on their own what items they want to own and which not.

 

It appears quite ridiculous to me if one has to come up with an explanation why one puts certain trading items (non-dangerous ones!) into a cache. Hopefully no one would come up with the idea that McToys are put into caches to either encourage or discourage (depending on one's personal attitude) the visit of fastfood restaurants.

 

Cezanne

 

Right, if you look at it that way, that McToys encourage visitng fast food restaurants, then your argument is valid. Let's not forget a few things tho:

 

A) McToys, while common, are not the only things you find in caches.

Nobody worships or creates a culture or society based around microchips - or at least nobody I'd want to meet....ever.

 

--MGb

[+pceetech]

I think everyone should lighten up a bit

It's about the hunt anyways, not what you find. If your not into the the contents of the cache, log the smiley and move on. It doesnt sound to me like the OP has an "agenda". The cache would be near a church, so the contents reflect that, big deal. If it burns someones eyes to look at religous stuff, then they probably would want to skip this cache altogether due to it location, no matter whats in the box.

I hope this one gets approved.

 

PCeeTech

[+briansnat]

It appears that no one here is offended by the fact that the hideout is planned to be close to a church. The discussion seems to be concerned just with the trading items.

In my opinion, most cachers either choose trading items that they do not need any longer and want to get rid of the stuff (certainly not the case in the case described by the OP) or that they regard as nice.

Why is it any better if someone regards some electronic gadgets, such as resistors etc as nice and interesting stuff to be put into a cache as if someone put rosaries, cooking books prepared by a religious order etc into a cache? I do not hope that the person who puts resistors and the like into his/her cache or a certain selection of books or McToy items wants to convey any sort of message to me. Human beings do have a brain and the ability to decide on their own what items they want to own and which not.

 

I don't think its the trading iems per se that are the issue. There is nothing wrong with those kinds of things in caches (The "you're going to hell unless you beleive what we beleive" pamphlets are a different story).

 

Its the fact that all the items are geared towards one religion that makes it an issue. I've seen several religion themed caches and the reviewers apparently have no issue with them because they've been published.

But when all the items are oriented towards a single religion and its on the grounds of a church that practices that religion, that's when I think it crosses the line and begins to promote an agenda.

[+nicolo]

I am considering placing a cache on the grounds of a historical local Catholic Church. I know that there has been much debate about religion and caches....but I'm being very clear about the contents of this cache. Is this appropriate?

 

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

I would enjoy finding that cache.

I'd also be OK with that kind of cache, particularly if the historical nature of the church is mentioned in fair detail on the cache page. I'm a big fan of historical type caches.

 

I also don't buy a previous post "caches must remain neutral lest others think they are being excluded". Boo hoo, someone might feel excluded. I hate lame micros but people in our area keep putting them out there, should I feel excluded? New flash, not everyone likes every cache/cache type, get over it and look for ones that you do like ( I need to listen to my own advice! ).

[+Happy Humphrey]

When I read the suggestions given to you in some replies to restrict yourself to neutral stuff, I was quite amazed that people believe that such items do exist. Actually, most items in the real world are not neutral at all.

I took "neutral stuff" in this context to mean "not making any particular point / without an agenda". A random mix of varied items fits that description.

Someone who believes that, for example, a leather wallet produced in Asia by poor exploited children is something superior to a rosary, is in my opinion acting in a quite hypocritical manner. The only solution to achieve real neutrality would be forbid trade items in caches at all.

 

No cacher is forced to trade. If he/she does not like the swag in a certain cache, a TNLN action is always possible.

I don't think that anyone was suggesting that certain items are "superior" or otherwise, it's just that the rosary (if accompanied solely by other religious trinkets) would appear to be emphasising a "religious" theme. When combined with the church location, I would begin to suspect a sneaky agenda - not offensive, but not attractive either. I think that the OP would like an attractive cache.

[+wimseyguy]

It all depends on your motivation for placing the cache there and filling it with religious items. If you are doing it with the intent of sharing your faith and spreading "the word" then you are placing the cache with an agenda and it is against the guidelines. If you think the location is worthy of sharing with others because of the history, or the scenic overlook farther down the path, and the contents just happen to be stuff you have cleaned out of your kithcen and desk drawers, then it is OK.

 

FWIW I often trade sweet potato tracts for the religious tracts I sometimes find in caches. It is our official state vegetable, and very nutritious. The tracts have lots of good recipes in them. I once tried to hide a cache full of pasta and related recipes, but the reviewer told me that food shouldn't be in caches and it was archived.

[+nicolo]

... I would suggest a good explaination as to your intent on the cover page.

That way, if someone is offended or put off in some way they can simply ignore the hide.

...

Ditto.

[cezanne]

 

Right, if you look at it that way, that McToys encourage visitng fast food restaurants, then your argument is valid.

 

Personally, I do not look at it that way. I used the example just as one of several ones to demonstrate that perfectly neutral swag does not exist.

 

A) McToys, while common, are not the only things you find in caches.

 

I am not sure whether I understand you correctly. I know a lot of caches which only contain such items (or equivalent ones) and I know many caches that do not contain trading items at all.

 

Nobody worships or creates a culture or society based around microchips - or at least nobody I'd want to meet....ever.

 

I guess we should stop argueing about issues like that - it is getting too philosophical for this forum. In a certain sense the developped part of the world has built up a society that worships money and all the things that make the participating people richer regardless of the negative side-effects on other people/parts of the world. I do not think that I am any better - I live in a modern society as well and make use of many things which have negative effects, but I am at least partially aware of this situation which makes me reluctant to agree to rules which restrict others in such minor actions as to what trading items one puts in one's cache.

Most cachers will either not trade at all as a principle (like I do) or they will take an item if they find one in a cache which is sufficiently attractive to them. (Like I do not expect an average cacher to start thinking about the effect of fastfood restaurants on the health of people, I feel that it can be expected from an average cacher to refrain from interpreting a rosary in a cache as a means to convince him of the superiority of a certain religious believe.)

 

 

Cezanne

[+Snoogans]

FWIW I often trade sweet potato tracts for the religious tracts I sometimes find in caches. It is our official state vegetable, and very nutritious. The tracts have lots of good recipes in them. I once tried to hide a cache full of pasta and related recipes, but the reviewer told me that food shouldn't be in caches and it was archived.

 

I still have the sweet potato tract you gave me at one of the GWs. It resides in my sig item collection.

 

BTW- I still can't stand the taste of sweet potatoes. You failed in your sly attempt to convert me.

[cezanne]

When I read the suggestions given to you in some replies to restrict yourself to neutral stuff, I was quite amazed that people believe that such items do exist. Actually, most items in the real world are not neutral at all.

I took "neutral stuff" in this context to mean "not making any particular point / without an agenda". A random mix of varied items fits that description.

 

Ok, this definition makes my main comment obsolete, but I still do not think that "neutral" is a good notion

in this context.

Moreover, I have not found many caches that contain a random mix of varies items. Most cache boxes in the area where I cache are pretty small (ammo boxes are a rare exception) and many cachers do not care about trading at all. As a consequence, a mix of varied items hardly ever occurs.

 

I don't think that anyone was suggesting that certain items are "superior" or otherwise

 

If the items I listed in my first posting are allowed, while rosaries get forbidden, this is even worse than suggesting a sort of superiority.

 

, it's just that the rosary (if accompanied solely by other religious trinkets) would appear to be emphasising a "religious" theme. When combined with the church location, I would begin to suspect a sneaky agenda - not offensive, but not attractive either. I think that the OP would like an attractive cache.

 

Here I agree with you. I was not criticizing the feedback which was given to the OP. Like you I believe that the majority of cachers will not be enthusiastic about the religiously-flavoured trading items, but that's a different matter. I just feel that it is wrong to forbid trading items like rosaries (regardless of what other items are contained in the cache). Someone who is really fanatic about his religion, will rather not allow the exchange of, say a rosary, against a profane item of the same monetary value. The hider is planning to allow such trades.

 

Cezanne

[+Snoogans]

I hate lame micros but people in our area keep putting them out there, should I feel excluded?

 

 

Can we have just one heated debate without beating the redheaded stepchild to illustrate a point.

[+nicolo]

I hate lame micros but people in our area keep putting them out there, should I feel excluded?

 

 

Can we have just one heated debate without beating the redheaded stepchild to illustrate a point.

 

Uhhh, probably not.

[+sbell111]

Risking running this strangly agsty thread off the rails, what's a sweet potato tract?

[+Moose Mob]

Risking running this strangly agsty thread off the rails, what's a sweet potato tract?

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source

tract (2)

 

–noun a brief treatise or pamphlet for general distribution, usually on a religious or political topic.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Origin: 1400–50; late ME tracte, appar. shortening of ML tractātus tractate]

 

—Synonyms essay, homily, disquisition.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)

Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

[+sbell111]

Risking running this strangly agsty thread off the rails, what's a sweet potato tract?

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source

tract (2)

 

–noun a brief treatise or pamphlet for general distribution, usually on a religious or political topic.

Ummm, OK.

 

BTW, are we trying to get sweet potatoes elected or are we hoping that they will save our soul?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

My lovely wife, GeoRose, chose her geonick after finding a rosary in her first cache. I have seen silver crosses and other religious material in caches; it's not common but it happens.

 

I would hate to think that my particular beliefs were so weak that I would be threatened or offended by seeing a pamplet promoting something else! It's a big world, people are different, so what?

 

As Briansnat has said at least twice in this thread, don't use it to proselytize (recruit) or promote your particular views on religion and you're good to go!

 

Consider placing stuff in it from all religions - if that idea is abhorent and you can only see putting stuff from your brand of religion in it then yes, you are promoting your personal agenda!

 

It's not the theme of religion that's to be avoided - it's the 'you must / should practice MY religion' message that is to be avoided.

 

Ed

[cezanne]

I don't think its the trading iems per se that are the issue. There is nothing wrong with those kinds of things in caches (The "you're going to hell unless you beleive what we beleive" pamphlets are a different story).

 

It appears that several posters in this thread do have a problem with those kind of things in caches.

Of course I was not talking about pamplets of the type you mention as they clearly send along a message.

 

Its the fact that all the items are geared towards one religion that makes it an issue.

 

Does it? Would you feel the same way if someone only put items related to Linux or to Mac-computers into a cache or only toys for children up to the age of three years? I would not. In the first case, I would just deduce that the hider most probably is a member of the Catholic church (or whatever religion the items might belong to). In the other cases, I would guess that the hider is a fan of Linux or Mac-Computers respectively has small children at home or grown ups that do not need their toys any longer.

 

But when all the items are oriented towards a single religion and its on the grounds of a church that practices that religion, that's when I think it crosses the line and begins to promote an agenda.

 

I do not agree. As trading items are not something obligatory for caches, I feel that it's up to the hider of a cache to select items he likes. I am not expecting from someone belonging to religion X to select items

that represent other religions (actually, I feel that this can become quite dangerous and it is much easier to offend people in that way by choosing wrong items). On the other hand, I also do not feel that it makes sense to require that a cache hidden close to a religious building must have a profane contents (such as Linux items or toys for children).

 

Following your argument it appears to me that one would also need to object against caches hidden close-by a fast-food restaurant which are filled with cooking books listing exclusively recipes for dishes that all contain huge amounts of fat and calories. (You can make up the same story also with some vegan restaurant and cooking books based on that style of nutrition as well.) This can be seen as a sort of agenda as well, and most probably there exist people which are even offended by such a cache. Nevertheless, I prefer to keep the responsability with the cache hiders and seekers and object against reviewers interfering in such a way.

 

 

Cezanne

[cezanne]

Consider placing stuff in it from all religions - if that idea is abhorent and you can only see putting stuff from your brand of religion in it then yes, you are promoting your personal agenda!

 

I do not agree. Apart from the fact that it is impossible to cover all existing religions, I think that it is not a good idea if someone who is not familiar with a certain religion, selects items to represent this religion. Suppose for example someone puts a very bad translation of the old testament into a cache - then most probably neither the Christian people will be pleased nor the people not interested into the bible at all, and the chances that most items will remain in the cache forever even grows.

 

 

It's not the theme of religion that's to be avoided - it's the 'you must / should practice MY religion' message that is to be avoided.

 

I agree that this message should be avoided, but I never ever thought of trading items as a way to send any form of message to the seekers of a cache. A cache filled with Microsoft-related items would not make me believe that the hider wants me to change my opinion on this company and my preference for another type of operating system.

 

What you appear to set up as requirement sounds equally strange to me than requiring that a cache needs to contain stuff for all ages, all sexes, nationalities etc. Take a female cacher - why shouldn't she fill her cache with items which are typically only of interest to women? Do you deduce a message from the selection of trade items also in such a case (such as that for example male cachers are not welcome or whatever)?

 

If cachers are required to hide their personal beliefs and preferences, this has negative effects on the

diversity of caching and hinders people from being authentic. I like to learn more about the preferences and beliefs of my fellow cachers as long as they show respect for other people regardless of their beliefs.

 

Cezanne

[+wimseyguy]

Risking running this strangly agsty thread off the rails, what's a sweet potato tract?

Yup, what the twig eating electric eared ungulate said. Three panel pamphlets espousing the nutritional virtues of sweet potatoes via some tasty recipes. PM me a snail mail address if you would like one. Or just click the link.

[+sbell111]

Risking running this strangly agsty thread off the rails, what's a sweet potato tract?

Yup, what the twig eating electric eared ungulate said. Three panel pamphlets espousing the nutritional virtues of sweet potatoes via some tasty recipes. PM me a snail mail address if you would like one. Or just click the link.

No thinks, You lost me at 'nutritional'.

[+El Diablo]

Maybe consider making the cache contents less than 50% themed, and maybe that will get it past the Reviewer. Good luck with it! Here's an editorial I wrote a few years ago when this subject came up in the forums. Politically correct

 

El Diablo

Edited November 22, 2006 by El Diablo

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I am considering placing a cache on the grounds of a historical local Catholic Church. I know that there has been much debate about religion and caches....but I'm being very clear about the contents of this cache. Is this appropriate?

 

The cache, an ammo can, is located in the woods just south of the cemetery. The cache contains some rosaries, prayer cards, Saint Medallions, and other Catholic oriented swag. Trade these items with anything you wish, so we can get some regular swag in this box too. The FTF prize is a cookbook compiled by the Ladies of St. Boniface (full of good southern dishes and deserts that you would find on the table at any of the Church’s many potluck dinners.)

I do not happen to be Roman Catholic, but this cache would not bother me at all, as this is not heavy-handed or "hard-sell" atemtps to convert others to that religion. And, if I were in your area, I would likely hunt this cache. What does irritate me a bit (and no, this does not apply to your proposal) is when people place heavy-handed (i.e., "hard sell") and/or hostile/antagonistic (i.e., anti-this, anti-that, hate this group, hate that group) religious tracts in geocaches, whether their own caches or caches owned by others.

 

As a case in point about refraining from heavy-handed religious activity: I happen to be a card-carrying member of a flying saucer cult, and we believe that we earn "brownie points" with our gods (space aliens") if

we will set up "human-snare" geocaches which attract human geocachers and then capture them so that we can feed them (the human geocachers, that is) to our hungry gods (i.e., hungry space aliens.) As a matter of principle, I always refuse to to emplace such humansnare geocaches and I even refuse to help my gods (the space aliens who are the Catpains/Saints of the Supreme Holy Flying Saucers) to kidnap and eat geocachers on the trails.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+briansnat]

Following your argument it appears to me that one would also need to object against caches hidden close-by a fast-food restaurant which are filled with cooking books listing exclusively recipes for dishes that all contain huge amounts of fat and calories. (You can make up the same story also with some vegan restaurant and cooking books based on that style of nutrition as well.) This can be seen as a sort of agenda as well, and most probably there exist people which are even offended by such a cache. Nevertheless, I prefer to keep the responsability with the cache hiders and seekers and object against reviewers interfering in such a way.

 

If you were to place a cache on the property of a fast food joint and fill it with trinkets advertizing that business there would be an objection. The reviewers wouldn't allow it. Put those same trinkets in a cache on the top of a wildnerness peak it probably would pass muster with the reviewers. Its the combination of the contents and location as well as the text on the cache page and cache name that will turn a cache into an agenda cache.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

Risking running this strangly agsty thread off the rails, what's a sweet potato tract?

Yup, what the twig eating electric eared ungulate said. Three panel pamphlets espousing the nutritional virtues of sweet potatoes via some tasty recipes. PM me a snail mail address if you would like one. Or just click the link.

Oh no! You have encountered the "sweet potato fundamentalists"! They believe that everything in life is better with sweet potatoes, and they even believe that sweet potatoes are the answer to every problem!

[+sbell111]

Risking running this strangly agsty thread off the rails, what's a sweet potato tract?

Yup, what the twig eating electric eared ungulate said. Three panel pamphlets espousing the nutritional virtues of sweet potatoes via some tasty recipes. PM me a snail mail address if you would like one. Or just click the link.

Oh no! You have encountered the "sweet potato fundamentalists"! They believe that everything in life is better with sweet potatoes, and they even believe that sweet potatoes are the answer to every problem!

You mean like 'pocket queries'?

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

...FWIW I often trade sweet potato tracts for the religious tracts I sometimes find in caches. It is our official state vegetable, and very nutritious. The tracts have lots of good recipes in them. I once tried to hide a cache full of pasta and related recipes, but the reviewer told me that food shouldn't be in caches and it was archived.

 

You gol'danged sweet potato fundamentalist! You pusillanimous polecat! I am gonna forward your self-incriminating email (above) to the FBI's Sweet Potato Fundamentalist Enforcement Unit! Meanwhile, till the men in black suits come to visit, may your danged sweet potatoes develop blight!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Disclaimer: I actually love sweet potatoes, and the above was written in jest. No sweet potatoes were harmed in the creation of this message.

[+StarBrand]

I don't see a problem with it so long as the listing page doesn't make an issue of religion(s). You don't rquire any trading rules or actually going in the church. Just themed trade items is all they are. As a non-catholic - roseary beads mean little or nothing to me. Tracts and recruitment materails should be left out but a few items of some religious interest sound harmless to me. I have found cross bookmarks, small decorative items with verses and small bibles left in a large varity of caches as trade items.

[Mr.Yuck]

I see no problem with it personally. I would suggest a good explaination as to your intent on the cover page.

That way, if someone is offended or put off in some way they can simply ignore the hide. I also find it disturbing to find items in caches of a sectarian charactor. I would be prepared for some negative feedback however.....this ammo box could very well be a pandora's box.

 

I agree with this 100%. Personally no problem, let it be known up front, prepare for some negative feedback. The last may or may not happen though.

 

I've on several occasions removed religious "recruitment" pamphlets from my own caches, since a couple of people have brought that up.

[+sun-moon-starz]

oops! delete extra post

Edited November 22, 2006 by sun-moon-starz

[+sun-moon-starz]

...FWIW I often trade sweet potato tracts for the religious tracts I sometimes find in caches. It is our official state vegetable, and very nutritious. The tracts have lots of good recipes in them. I once tried to hide a cache full of pasta and related recipes, but the reviewer told me that food shouldn't be in caches and it was archived.

 

You gol'danged sweet potato fundamentalist! You pusillanimous polecat! I am gonna forward your self-incriminating email (above) to the FBI's Sweet Potato Fundamentalist Enforcement Unit! Meanwhile, till the men in black suits come to visit, may your danged sweet potatoes develop blight!

 

 

Disclaimer: I actually love sweet potatoes, and the above was written in jest. No sweet potatoes were harmed in the creation of this message.

 

MMMMmmm! Sweet potatoes. Happy non-dogma'ed Thanksgiving Everyone!

 

FTIW, I take all the religious pamphlets out of caches, I figure that is what the hider wanted, to spread their word to the next finder, which would be me!