AZ_KMx2 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I have MapSend Topo 3D and I'm happy with its topo capabilities, but not so much with its trail maps or lack there of. It has some trail heads but I haven't found any trails yet. I would like to find software that had comprehensive trail maps so I could plan my hikes and caches accordingly. More often than not we go trailblazing to a cache only to find out that there was a trail nearby that wasn't mentioned on the cache page. Am I kidding myself thinking that there is such software that I can go put all my waypoints on it and and print a nice page of trailmaps with the caches on it too? Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) National Geographic Topo who supplies 24K quad map program (State Series about $90 for Arizona) allows you to trasnfer waypoint and see their maps on your PC. It also has a service called MapXchange People walk trails with their GPS's and supply the track/route waypoints to MapXchange. Below are the current trails. You can download to NG Topo maps for Arizona. Then you take all the cache wypoint and import them into the NG map so they and the trail waypoints are all shown. You can then print out the maps or transfer the waypoints to you GPS to follow the trails to the cache. Very neat! Arizona TOPO! Arizona Files created with TOPO! Arizona and TOPO! SYNC USA 2006 Arizona Game Management Units National Geographic Maps, 07/28/06 Hunting Harquahala Peak: Harquahala Pack Trail LocalHikes.Com, 02/01/06 Hikers Bear Canyon Along Catalina Hwy. LocalHikes.Com, 03/05/05 Hikers, Dogs Harquahala Peak: Harquahala Pack Trail LocalHikes.Com, 02/01/06 Hikers Bill Williams Mountain Trail #21 LocalHikes.Com, 11/10/04 Hikers, Dogs, Horses HoneyBee Canyon (North) Trail LocalHikes.Com, 07/16/03 Hikers, Dogs, Bikes Blacketts Ridge LocalHikes.Com, 04/10/05 Hikers Kennedy Peak LocalHikes.Com, 02/01/06 Hikers Cactus Forest Trail LocalHikes.Com, 03/05/05 Hikers, Horses Kentucky Camp Ghost Town LocalHikes.Com, 11/10/04 Hikers, Dogs, Bikes, Horses Canyon Loop Trail - Catalina State Park LocalHikes.Com, 07/16/03 Hikers, Dogs, Bikes, Horses Kofa Mountains: Signal Peak LocalHikes.Com, 02/01/06 Hikers Cathedral Rock: Esperero Trail LocalHikes.Com, 11/10/04 Hikers Lava Flow Trail - Sunset Crater Volcano LocalHikes.Com, 11/10/04 Hikers Cave Creek - Gardner Canyon Loop LocalHikes.Com, 11/10/04 Hikers McCleary Peak: Florida Canyon LocalHikes.Com, 11/10/04 Hikers Douglas Spring Trail LocalHikes.Com, 02/14/05 Hikers, Horses Mica Mountain: Italian Springs Trail LocalHikes.Com, 04/10/05 Hikers Escudilla Mountain Trail #308 LocalHikes.Com, 11/10/04 Hikers Phoneline Trail LocalHikes.Com, 03/05/05 Hikers Finger Rock LocalHikes.Com, 07/21/03 Hikers Pusch Peak LocalHikes.Com, 03/05/05 Hikers, Horses Finger Rock Canyon to Mount Kimbal to Pima Canyon LocalHikes.Com, 02/14/05 Hikers Sabino Canyon LocalHikes.Com, 03/05/05 Hikers, Bikes Garwood Dam to Douglas Spring Trail Loop LocalHikes.Com, 03/05/05 Hikers, Horses Silver Peak: Trail No. 280 LocalHikes.Com, 02/01/06 Hikers Files created with TOPO! Arizona only - Indicates file that requires TOPO! version 3.0 or higher to view. Get the latest upgrade >> Arizona Airports Andy DeBord, 09/19/00 Flying Mt Kimball: Pima Canyon Trail LocalHikes.Com, 12/02/03 Hikers Atascosa Lookout: FS Trail 100 LocalHikes.Com, 02/04/04 Hikers, Dogs Mt Wrightson: Old Baldy Trail LocalHikes.Com, 08/01/03 Hikers AZT Dale Shewalter, 10/21/03 Hiking, Long Distance Backpacking Nature Trail - Oracle State Park LocalHikes.Com, 01/06/04 Hikers, Dogs, Bikes Baboquivari - Hike to Lions Ledge LocalHikes.Com, 07/22/03 Hikers Nature Trail Loop - Catalina State Park LocalHikes.Com, 01/06/04 Hikers, Dogs Bear Flat Pancho Doll, 08/07/01 hiking, swimming noon creek to marijilda creek MONS lARSON, 02/13/04 Hiking and Camping Black Canyon Trail Pancho, 04/23/03 Backpacking/Hiking Phoenix Township and Range Data Source: National Atlas of the United States, 07/05/01 Black River Adventure Vern Baker, 10/27/03 Camping, fishing, hiking Phoneline Trail - Oracle State Park LocalHikes.Com, 01/06/04 Hikers, Dogs, Bikes Boulder Canyon Loop Shane, 08/02/01 hiking Picacho Peak: Hunter Trail LocalHikes.Com, 08/01/03 Hikers Buckhorn Wash Dagley Reeves, 01/28/03 ATV, Dirt Bike, 4WD or at least high clearance. Picacho Peak: Sunset Vista Trail LocalHikes.Com, 01/08/04 Hikers Canelo Pass to Patagonia Murf, 05/08/03 Good dirt road riding in the area and birding is also very good - lots of Forest Service Pontatoc Ridge Trail LocalHikes.Com, 01/06/04 Hikers Cave Creek Pancho Doll, 08/07/01 hiking, swimming Ragged Top: North Gully LocalHikes.Com, 09/02/03 Hikers Cherry Creek Loop Shane, 08/02/01 hiking Red Mountain Trail LocalHikes.Com, 10/09/03 Hikers, Dogs, Horses Clear Creek Bob Ribokas, founder, Grand Canyon Explorer, 09/17/99 Hiking Reevis Ranch David Radel, 08/03/01 hiking Coke Ovens D Reeves, 01/29/03 Offroad, 4wd or ATV Rim Trails Will Martin, 05/28/01 hiking, biking, camping, fishing, backpacking Colorado River Andrew Solomon, river guide and medical student, 09/17/99 Paddling, hiking, fishing Roger's Canyon Cliff Dwellings Shane, 08/02/01 Corridor Bob Ribokas, Founder Grand Canyon Explorer, 09/17/99 Hiking, wildlife viewing Romero Pools - Catalina State Park LocalHikes.Com, 07/21/03 Hikers Elephant Head: East Ridge Trail LocalHikes.Com, 03/04/04 Hikers Romero Ruins Trail - Catalina State Park LocalHikes.Com, 12/02/03 Hikers Ellison Creek Pancho Doll, 08/07/01 hiking, swimming Sandys and Walnut Canyon LocalHikes.Com, 08/01/03 Hikers, Dogs, Bikes, Horses Fish Creek Pancho Doll, 08/07/01 hiking, swimming Segment 17 & 18. Picketpost to Roosevelt Lake Bill Watson, 04/17/03 Hiking Fossil Creek (2 trails) Ted Stratton, 04/23/02 hiking, swimming, fishing, camping Signal Hill Trail LocalHikes.Com, 08/01/03 Hikers Fossil Springs Pancho Doll, 08/07/01 South Canyon to the Colorado River Roger Olander, 09/08/01 Fishing, hiking, camping Fountain Park Trail LocalHikes.Com, 08/01/03 Hikers, Dogs Superstition ridgeline Matt Gilbert, 09/08/03 Gisela Narrows Pancho Doll, 08/07/01 hiking, swimming Sycamore Canyon Pancho Doll, 08/07/01 hiking, swimming Havasue Canyon Hike - 20040128 Herman R. Willett, 03/13/04 Hiking, Backpacking, Primative Camping, Waterfalls Tonto Trail Gray Rector, 09/17/99 Hiking Heart of Rocks: Massai Point LocalHikes.Com, 02/04/04 Hikers Tumamoc Hill LocalHikes.Com, 01/08/04 Hikers Heliograph Peak Trail #328A LocalHikes.Com, 10/09/03 Hikers, Dogs US Earthquakes Data Source: USGS, 04/14/00 Quaking in your boots HoneyBee Canyon South Trail LocalHikes.Com, 07/22/03 Hikers, Dogs US Hot Springs Data Source: US Geological Survey, 09/17/99 Hot spring enjoyment Horton Springs Roger Olander, 08/29/01 Camping fishing and picnic-ing US State Highpoints Glenn Bock, 09/12/01 hiking Icehouse Canyon LocalHikes.Com, 12/02/03 Hikers, Dogs US Volcanoes US Geological Survey, 01/08/01 Peakbagging, Volcano exploring Kendrick Mountain Trail Dennis Lightfoot, 07/07/03 Hiking Valley View Overlook Trail LocalHikes.Com, 08/01/03 Hikers Kendrick Mountain Trail LocalHikes.Com, 07/22/03 Hikers, Dogs Ventana Canyon LocalHikes.Com, 01/08/04 Hikers Lake Pleasant Scott Brayshaw, 07/03/01 4x4ing Wasson Peak - Sendero Esperanza Trail LocalHikes.Com, 03/04/04 Hikers Lake View Trail LocalHikes.Com, 10/09/03 Hikers, Dogs, Horses Wasson Peak: King Canyon Trail LocalHikes.Com, 08/01/03 Hikers Limestone Spring Tom Peters, 01/11/04 West Baldy Trail #94 LocalHikes.Com, 08/01/03 Hikers, Horses Linda Vista Trail LocalHikes.Com, 07/22/03 Hikers, Horses Windy Ridge Trail Loop LocalHikes.Com, 09/02/03 Hikers Meteor Craters of North America Data Source: USGS, 10/05/01 exploding on impact Woodbury Cabin Area Dave Casey, 02/14/04 Hiking, Hunting, Exploring Mt Humphreys: Humphreys Trail LocalHikes.Com, 09/02/03 Hikers, Dogs - Indicates file that requires TOPO! version 3.0 or higher to view. Get the latest upgrade >> Edited November 16, 2006 by Alan2 Quote Link to comment
AZ_KMx2 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 That is pretty cool. I'll look into that. Thank you! Quote Link to comment
GeoidPS Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Is there a program to transfer the tracks from the NG site to Mapsource? From what I understand, you can download all the trails you want from NG, but you can't use this on a gps. Quote Link to comment
Inukshuk94 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I know that Google earth is compatible with Garmin and Magellan and when I zoom into an area I can see some trails. Not all, but it's a start. Quote Link to comment
topografix Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 National Geographic is close to the bottom of the barrel when it comes to data interchange. They used to have a .tpg file format for exchanging waypoint data, but scrapped it in favor of .tpo, which is completely undocumented, and contains lots of binary junk in addition to your GPS data. As far as I know, there aren't any programs that can read a .tpo file. Everyone else is moving to support GPX, but NG Topo, with their MapXchange site, wants you to be locked into using .tpo Quote Link to comment
+Klatch Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 You can export a track from TOPO! as a GPS route. This route can go directly to your GPSr or exported as a GPX file. The resulting GPX file CANNOT be read by MapSource, but can be opened by EasyGPS and, after saving, it can then be read by MapSource. Not a nice track on your MapSource map, but a workaround if you want the track for navigating. Quote Link to comment
+Redwoods Mtn Biker Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 GPSBabel will export / convert version 2/3 NG TOPO .tpo files. I don't have time this a.m. to check on version 4. Must get to day job! Maybe Robert can enlighten us. I wrote about this here: Convert Nartional Geographic TOPO! (.tpo) files Rich Owings www.GPStracklog.com www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com “We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books.” – Edward Abbey Quote Link to comment
+Klatch Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 GPSBabel will export / convert version 2/3 NG TOPO .tpo files. I don't have time this a.m. to check on version 4. Must get to day job! Maybe Robert can enlighten us. I wrote about this here: Convert Nartional Geographic TOPO! (.tpo) files Rich Owings www.GPStracklog.com www.MakeYourOwnMaps.com “We were desert mystics, my friends and I, poring over our maps as others do their holy books.” – Edward Abbey I successfully converted a version 4 .tpo track file to a .gdb track file using GPSBabel. Thanks for the heads up! Quote Link to comment
AZ_KMx2 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 Mostly what I am looking for is what software has the most trail maps on it. My current topo can upload tracks and all the other goodies it just doesn't have much for trails on it. Quote Link to comment
+Klatch Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) Mostly what I am looking for is what software has the most trail maps on it. My current topo can upload tracks and all the other goodies it just doesn't have much for trails on it. Well, if you meant maps for in your GPSr, the MapSend product(s) is about all there is for Magellan units. The National Geographic TOPO! State Series maps are the USGS 1:24000 topographic quads, but even though they do show lots of trails, they haven't been updated in years and are not so reliable in showing existing trails. These types of maps cannot be uploaded to your GPSr. About the best you can do is trace a track on them where it indicates a trail to be and export a .gpx file to open with MapSend and send to your unit. You also convert the track to a Magellan format with GPSBabel, as stated above. Most state/national parks and forests have paper maps available showing the trails, but of course these aren't going to allow you to upload to your Magellan. Edit: I am a Garmin user, so if MapSend can't import GPX files, I stand corrected. Edited November 16, 2006 by Klatch Quote Link to comment
AZ_KMx2 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 I am not real worried about uploading the trailmap to my GPSr. I have the topo on it already. What I was thinking I wanted to do was place cache sites on the map so I have a better feeling on where to leave the trail from. I usually make a 3D topo with cache sites on it and print that out so I can at least tell what side of the mountain they are on before I set out. Quote Link to comment
+Klatch Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I am not real worried about uploading the trailmap to my GPSr. I have the topo on it already. What I was thinking I wanted to do was place cache sites on the map so I have a better feeling on where to leave the trail from. I usually make a 3D topo with cache sites on it and print that out so I can at least tell what side of the mountain they are on before I set out. I feel like I am chasing a moving target, but have you tried one of the online aerial/topo sites? They will accept cache coordinates and often the aerial photos will show jeep roads and trails that are not on the maps. This one allows you to toggle back and forth between aerial photos and topo maps. There are other sites, someone will jump in with other links, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) Anyone know a way to convert NG waypoints automatically to NG Notes so you can transfer them to NG's Pocket Topo for a PPC? Right now you cannot transfer waypoints, only notes so if you want a go to waypoint, you have to use the Note in Pocket Topo. Edited November 17, 2006 by Alan2 Quote Link to comment
AZ_KMx2 Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 I feel like I am chasing a moving target, but have you tried one of the online aerial/topo sites? They will accept cache coordinates and often the aerial photos will show jeep roads and trails that are not on the maps. This one allows you to toggle back and forth between aerial photos and topo maps. There are other sites, someone will jump in with other links, I'm sure. Sorry if I haven't been clear. Let me rundown what I want. I am looking for the best most comprehensive trail map software. I would like to have a trailmap where I could add caches or other POIs along the trail, and be able to print that out. I already have Mapsend Topo USA which is a good topo system and has all the capabilities I need other than a good set of trail maps. I can upload already travelled routes using that. I can find gas, food, lodging and banks on it though. Haven't figured out why I need all that on my handheld GPS yet. Anyway.. I use google to look at trails occasionally but it is rather hit or miss if I can get a tight enough zoom to see much. Quote Link to comment
+Klatch Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I feel like I am chasing a moving target, but have you tried one of the online aerial/topo sites? They will accept cache coordinates and often the aerial photos will show jeep roads and trails that are not on the maps. This one allows you to toggle back and forth between aerial photos and topo maps. There are other sites, someone will jump in with other links, I'm sure. Sorry if I haven't been clear. Let me rundown what I want. I am looking for the best most comprehensive trail map software. I would like to have a trailmap where I could add caches or other POIs along the trail, and be able to print that out. I already have Mapsend Topo USA which is a good topo system and has all the capabilities I need other than a good set of trail maps. I can upload already travelled routes using that. I can find gas, food, lodging and banks on it though. Haven't figured out why I need all that on my handheld GPS yet. Anyway.. I use google to look at trails occasionally but it is rather hit or miss if I can get a tight enough zoom to see much. OK, then I recommend National Geographic TOPO! State Series. It is a little pricey at about $90-$100, but I think it does most of what you want. It will not have all the current trails, and as far as I know there is no software that does. You can upload and download cache waypoints, and put your own tracks on them. You can print them and have a paper map to carry with you. Here is a small screen shot showing waypoints and tracks I made while hiking. It is only a small part of the map you can print: Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Mostly what I am looking for is what software has the most trail maps on it. My current topo can upload tracks and all the other goodies it just doesn't have much for trails on it. I'm not aware of any mapping software that has a comprehensive coverage of trail systems. Most will show some older trails. I know NG Topo! and Mapsource Topo have the Appalachain Trail (though very inaccurately in some places as it's often moved) and some older long standing trails. But 99 percent of the trails in my area are not on either. The reason being (I'm guessing) is that hiking trails in many areas are in a constant state of flux. Trails are closed or re-routed as land ownership changes. New trails are constantly being added and old trails moved. Paper trail maps that are a year or two old can be seriously out of date, so imagine trying to keep mapping software up to date. Your best bet is to get something like NG Topo! and create your own trail maps using the MapeXchange to find trail tracks in your area. Quote Link to comment
AZ_KMx2 Posted November 17, 2006 Author Share Posted November 17, 2006 It seems with accuracy and availability of modern GPSrs it would be fairly simple to keep electronic maps updated. Send sombody out on the trail and d/l the track when they get back and overlay it. Same thing we can do. I guess I'll just stick with what I have been doing and once I get some more experience things should smooth out some. Quote Link to comment
Grasscatcher Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) Anyone know a way to convert NG waypoints automatically to NG Notes so you can transfer them to NG's Pocket Topo for a PPC? Right now you cannot transfer waypoints, only notes so if you want a go to waypoint, you have to use the Note in Pocket Topo. Alan2, I do some beta testing for NG and will send your question to them, and see what they reply. Will, let you know .... Quick response! Hope this helps..... From TOPO.... Carl, I can't think of an easy way - but this is a good suggestion. We'll try incorporating some auto-conversion process in the export-to-PDA function for this. Edited November 17, 2006 by Grasscatcher Quote Link to comment
+Night Stalker Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I own National Geographics Topo State for several states and add geocaches to it when I am in an area with trails so that I can plan my hikes. It works pretty well though sometimes the trails aren't marked very well, but recently with the drought in our area some of the lakes and streams that show on the map don't exist either. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Anyone know a way to convert NG waypoints automatically to NG Notes so you can transfer them to NG's Pocket Topo for a PPC? Right now you cannot transfer waypoints, only notes so if you want a go to waypoint, you have to use the Note in Pocket Topo. Alan2, I do some beta testing for NG and will send your question to them, and see what they reply. Will, let you know .... Quick response! Hope this helps..... From TOPO.... Carl, I can't think of an easy way - but this is a good suggestion. We'll try incorporating some auto-conversion process in the export-to-PDA function for this. Thanks for checking with Topo. What really would be nice if NG would transfer the waypoints to the Pocket Topo maps. However, if converting them first to a "note" is the only choice, that would be better than having to do it by hand for each waypoint, something I have done a few times. Quote Link to comment
superstition Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Backpacker Magazine has been posting hundreds of trails online around the country in conjuction with Trimble Outdoors. You can find them on the Backpacker web site ( www.backpacker.com/hikes ) or on the Trimble Outdoors web site. There are quite a few trails in Arizona. Best of all, the trails have GPS points of interest and many contain photos or video. You can download the trails to a Garmin, a Magellan, or even a GPS phone from Nextel or Sprint. The Trimble mapping software is free to download for geocachers for a trial period ( Cache In Trash Out ) Quote Link to comment
AZ_KMx2 Posted November 18, 2006 Author Share Posted November 18, 2006 After searching around I found a site where a guy had mtn biked alot of trails in the area and tracked them all on his GPS. He was nice enough to upload that to Google earth and make it available for download. I just took that and put a bunch of caches on it. Not all the trails are tracked but it is a real good start. Quote Link to comment
superstition Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 Cool! Post the site. I would like to check it out. Quote Link to comment
Grasscatcher Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 If you can find trails on NG Map Exchange that interest you then you can use GPS Babel v 1.3.0 to convert from the NG "tpo" file to GPX format and/or many others . Converts waypoints, tracks,routes and other stuff as well. GPS Babel easily converts between many different formats. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted November 18, 2006 Share Posted November 18, 2006 OK I downloaded Babel. How do you use it? Can someone give me a example of the expression? Tks. Quote Link to comment
AZ_KMx2 Posted November 19, 2006 Author Share Posted November 19, 2006 Cool! Post the site. I would like to check it out. Started here- http://www.bikerag.com/bike_trail_maps_text_az.htm Went to South Mountain http://www.bikerag.com/images/MAPS/az_sout...enix_review.htm Then go to this link http://mtbikeaz.com/ (under the map) Under the second youtube video click the south mountain link- http://mtbikeaz.com/2006/10/10/south-mount...nix-gps-mapped/ Then there you see the google earth link for south mountain. Looking back its a wonder I ever found this. Quote Link to comment
Grasscatcher Posted November 19, 2006 Share Posted November 19, 2006 OK I downloaded Babel. How do you use it? Can someone give me a example of the expression? Tks. Save a file that you want to convert.....wherever In GPS Babel GUI 2 Use the pulldown arrow and select the "type" of Input file. Use browse button (rh end that line) to "path" to the file to be converted. Output file-select "type" file is to be converted "to" Type in name for converted file (must also type "(.) & three letter extension " ...then use browse button on that line to "path" to location you want to save it "Let's Go" Done Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Thnaks-that's pretty neat. My Zipped filed had GUI1 not GUI2. It came from downloaded 1.3.2 Zipped version for my PC. Is there a later one I'm missing? Also, the output worked with and without the 3 digit extension. Alan Quote Link to comment
Grasscatcher Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Mine just says 1.3.0 and GUI 2....but who cares... as long as it works! Quote Link to comment
+geodarts Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The other day I went out caching with a friend who has the Garmin topo and was impressed by (and a little envious of ) the trail information that is included on that. But having made a significant investment in Magellan products, I was not about to change. Today, found tracks that people have recorded on the web, set up a batch file to convert the format using GPS Babel, and then used addmagmap to place the tracks as trails on my magellan topo. The latter has to be done one at a time, and is somewhat tedius. Some of the resulting trails appear to be slightly off, but it will at least give me an idea of what I am looking at. Quote Link to comment
+Alan2 Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) You might want to check out National geographic Topo State Series. Besides giving you 24K USGS quad topo maps, the have loads of trails already routed for you. Scroll to California. MapXchange. One thing to keep in mind that although you can create trail, an load waypoints and routes between Topo and your GPS, the maps themselves are only for your computer as only Magellan can be loaded into Magellan GPS's. Edited February 8, 2007 by Alan2 Quote Link to comment
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