Spirit Quests

[Idaho_Clovisman]

Raven02 i agree with you 100%

allot of people who play this game are well lets say immature in certain ways and argumentative.

they have some dumb rules

they have some dumb people

naysayers and trolls here get to ya

 

<rolls eyes>

 

It'd be laughable if it weren't so damnably tragic.

 

Very Lost you prove my point two fold first you constructed a 9 word post that adds not one thing to this thread and you took what i said out of context,reread the whole thread and try again...

[+VeryLost]

Very Lost you prove my point two fold first you constructed a 9 word post that adds not one thing to this thread and you took what i said out of context,reread the whole thread and try again.

 

I'm sorry you missed what I was illustrating. It's one of those thing that, if you need it explained to you, you wouldn't appreciate anyway.

[Clan Riffster]

I'm one of those guys that loves old cemeteries. In my youth, I used to do tombstone rubbing's, then it became somewhat of a fad, so I let it go. I heartily enjoy a well done cemetery cache, and always maintain a respectful air as I go about my business. That being said, I'll probably never hide a cache in a cemetery. So far, every cacher I've met has been courteous, friendly and well mannered, but from reading the forums, I know that's not always the case. I'd hate for a cemetery cache which I placed to draw a cacher with a rowdy nature.

[+Hoosier_Daddy]

Most of the cemetaries that I have come across have markers for veterans of wars past, as well as stones remembering a loved one who never returned (MIA). A veteran myself, I find myself saluting these men (mostly) that went before me and gave the ultimate sacrifice, and in some cases, never made it home at all.

 

Cemetary caches are among my favorites. I may spend 5 minutes skirting the perimeter of the site to get to the tree where the container is, and 20 minutes walking the stones. At many veterans markers, I come to a stop, stand to attention, and give a proper, crisp, military salute. At every marker, I consider the dash between the dates.

 

See, we all are born, and die, for the most part, the same as the next guy. Few people are remembered for how they died. All are remembered for how they lived. The dash is usually all that is on that stone to recognize that. I imagine the area as it was when that person was alive, walking the streets, going to the old country church, raising a family. As I walk the stones, generations of families long forgotten, who paved the way, in one form or another, come to life again, if only in my head.

Especially touching to me are the husband/wife stones. At these stones, the cries of joy as a new life is brought into the world, children laughing and playing, father and mother growing old together, and the mourning as each is laid to rest all rush through my head. I never knew them, yet I feel a connection with each one in a way. This world would not be what it is, the way it is, the shape it is, with the people that are in it were it not for them, and I respect and honor them for it.

 

For me, there are two types of GeoCaches:

 

There are the fun ones. The park and grabs, the 5-star micros and so on that are designed for fun and a challenge. Magnetic keyholders on a light pole, an ammo can under a bridge. These are for the thrill of the hunt, the number of finds on your profile, and the occasional cool piece of loot.

 

Then there are the ones that are more of a public forum for us to share a special place, a beautiful, little-known park, a incredible view, or a forgotten piece of history. These, to me, are what I love. Sure, there is a little container with a log sheet in it, but the purpose of these seems to me to be one of respect, of introspection, of "slow down and look around you", or even "remember those who came before you".

 

Finally, perhaps this has been said some other way before, but cemetaries aren't supposed to be a mass storage area for the dead. There are plenty of more space-efficient ways of doing that. No, instead, I think they are there to remember the dead. Why leave a stone if not to remember who is laid there?

 

Do we respect the dead by forgetting they ever existed, or worse yet, by being ignorant of the fact? I would rather remember them.

 

To many, GeoCaching is just a game, but sometimes it is more than that. I have found many places (cemetaries included) that I never even knew existed because of it. Call it a game if you will, but this "game" has opened my eyes to places that allowed me a glimpse into our past that I never would have had otherwise.

[+Morgan's Marauders]

I have just been on a walk with my wife and kids and have had time to think about what was said here. I have come to the conclusion that:

 

I owe you all an apology for the tone of my message. I didnt want to be offensive to anyone for that I apologize.

 

I do stand by the content on that message. I could have said it in a nicer way.

 

I just hope we can have fun doing this thing we seem to love and enjoy so much.

 

Happy Hunting.

 

 

DRAT!!! Where is a little applause smiley??

 

 

 

 

Nicely done!

[+New England n00b]

I have just been on a walk with my wife and kids and have had time to think about what was said here. I have come to the conclusion that:

 

I owe you all an apology for the tone of my message. I didnt want to be offensive to anyone for that I apologize.

 

I do stand by the content on that message. I could have said it in a nicer way.

 

I just hope we can have fun doing this thing we seem to love and enjoy so much.

 

Happy Hunting.

 

 

DRAT!!! Where is a little applause smiley??

 

 

 

 

Nicely done!

Because it needs to be said again. I wish people would read whole threads before replying. Happy hunting to you as well, Raven02!

[+tenacityj]

Raven, I understand why you came on so strong in the beginning. Death can be a touchy subject, plus the fact that we ARE playing a game can offend some.

 

However, having that been said; there can be some use to having caches within a cemetary. I am a PE teacher and have knowledge of quite a few games. I would say that this "game" that we are playing is not anything like any other game. How many other games actually ask their players to pick up trash in areas while playing - not very many.

 

This game can bring people to cemetaries to view headstones, these same people (in majority) will be willing to clean off headstones and pick up trash. Also, by having cachers visit a headstone to retrieve information can be a great way to honor your relatives. I have grandparents that have passed that were extremely close to me and I would consider having people visit just to show how great they were.

 

I also have a distant relative who committed murder/suicide; this relative did what he did because (it is believed) he was on different diabetes medication. Otherwise, he was a great person - one that I loved dearly. What he did is not mentioned on his headstone, but how much he was loved is. What better way to have people honor him than to have people visit who have no idea about your dark past, but to only see the good.

 

I don't just visit cemetaries unless the cemetary holds the resting place of one of my relatives. Caching is what brings me to other cemetaries. I do believe that my deceased relatives would approve of information caches near their resting place, becuase they know I care enough to not only visit but to have others visit in order to spread the word about their life.

 

I have done a few caches where I have had to read the information on the headstone. I am not only respectful, but I also take something away from what I read. I often think about that person: what he/she may have looked like, were they funny, were they brave, did they have strict morals, what was their profession, were they ever in the military, how big was their family; but the one thing that I really take away is that someone loved this person. Sometimes I even pray for the soul and for the deceased's family.

 

So of course your "opinion is RIGHT" because praying for others in a cemetary is so disrespectful.

 

By the way, opinions are not considered right or wrong because if an opinion is right, it is called a fact. Therefore, facts exist not right opinions otherwise it would not be called an opinion.

[+briansnat]

To many, GeoCaching is just a game, but sometimes it is more than that. I have found many places (cemetaries included) that I never even knew existed because of it. Call it a game if you will, but this "game" has opened my eyes to places that allowed me a glimpse into our past that I never would have had otherwise.

 

There's someone who gets it.

[+Raven02]

I seem to have been misunderstood from reading all of your posts. I am not opposed to visiting loved ones, cleaning. restoring, Gaining knowledge, learning about history, Viewing the headstones, down right curiousity(sp), etc... I too have loved ones in cemetaries and it would be nice to have someone clean off the stone when needed. There are plenty of good reasons to go to a cemetary. I have no problem with those reasons at all. If cemetaries are your thing by all means go see them all. I have walked through the cemetaries in New Orleans before the hurricane. I just have a problem with doing this type of thing in a cemetary. I just think you should show more respect thats all. I can see that from these posts that we all have a level of respect for cemetaries. We all have to find that place where we draw the line. Obviously its different for us all.

 

Happy Hunting

 

From reading the latest posts here I feel the above needs to be repeated. Some ppl think I am opposed to going to cemetaries for any reason. That could'nt be farther from the truth as stated above. I was actually at Fort Amanda yesterday looking at the stones of the 75 unknown soldiers that died in the war of 1812. I stood there an actually thanked them outloud for their sacrifice. I just think that if you want to go to a cemetary for the reasons that you all have stated you could go to the state board of cemetaries in your state and find out where they are. No need to hide or find a cache to go there. If indeed cemetaries are your thing then this would be one way to go about it. Now I understand that some will not do this. I understand that some will need the carrot (i.e cache) to actually go to these cemetaries. I can only hope that whatever you do at these cemetaries you do it with respect. I know from the posts here that most of you do. And as I read these posts I see that we all have a line when it comes to activities that should happen in a cemetary. And that line is different for us all. I hope I have made my view a little more clear. Please dont assume my views on anything....all you have to do is ask.

Edited November 12, 2006 by Raven02

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Please dont assume my views on anything....all you have to do is ask.

...but then we'd never have any flame wars.

[+flask]

i have a stage of a cache in a cemetery.

 

it's a quite cemetery on a back road that maybe people wouldn't know about. my town used to have churches and stores and smithies but now most of it is all gone.

 

the cemetery remains, though, and it's where i want to be buried when my time comes.

 

the really interesting thing there that i want cachers to see is that a confederate veteran is buried there, in a northern vermont cemetery.

 

the people who maintain our cemetery and put flags on veterans' graves make sure he gets a confederate one.

[+Big Max]

I thought about this a lot before I did my first cemetery cache. Seemed sacriligious at first. But than I thought about it from the standpoint of if it was me buried there. I would much rather have people coming by having fun playing games than doing 'research' on me or crying over my grave. Plus, most of these graves haven't had any relative visit them in years. The only visitors they are getting are geocachers or researchers (and very few of those). Like others I always have respect and straighten things up when possible. And before I did my first cemetery cache I never thought about what these peoples lives must have been like and how tough they must have been to bring civilization to our area.

[+bradmanz]

I think your wrong period.............there are not there to reflect on the people there, if you believe that I have land for you on the moon. They are there to play a game. thats all nothing else. They would not even think of going to see "gram" if not for the game. As for your comment on asking why you do something before dressing you down.....All I can say about that is when i see something going on that I think is wrong...you bet I will dress you down for it. As I said in my first post it is my "opinion"

about this subject.....an opinion I will stress that just happens to be RIGHT. I dont expect to make any friends talking about this subject and thats OK, especially those that think its ok to do this. But I do expect some form of "ethics" in this game or how will we be taken seriously. If we do not even respect the dead how can we expect the living to respect us and what we do?

 

Calm down. First things first. You've made one broad, general statement and made assumptions you have no right to make with the lack of information you possess.

 

The vast majority of the cemeteries that have a cache in them would most likely never have a visitor if not for geocachers. Most old, Pioneer cemeteries, if visited, sadly have become nothing more than a place for teenagers to hangout and do whatever teenagers do these days. So, IOW, if not for goecaching, there are literally thousands of graves that would never be reflected upon. I do not go to cemeteries to play games. I go to cemeteries and may also happen to hunt for a geocache that most likely will help me learn something about the people there or the area they were pioneer's of. I (and most cachers) are there to reflect. I didn't find cemeteries through geocaching, I found geocaching through cemeteries.

 

I, too am new to geocaching. I have no problem with cemetery caches that are placed respectfully and are visited respectfully. I love cemeteries and have been very fortunate to be able to make a career of restoring old cemeteries. I understand quite well the lack of attention our oldest cemeteries receive. As long as cachers aren't doing anything to the stones I have no problem with this and I would have no problem with people trapsing my grave to find a cache. As an added bonus, a cemetery that is visited frequently is less likely to be vandalised.

 

And Ironically, you blather on about respect all the while demanding that your opinion is the only correct opinion. Talk about a lack of respect. If it is an opinion it can be neither right nor wrong. It's an opinion. When you can produce some facts, then you might have a case.

 

As someone who spends a couple thousand hours a year in cemeteries I say cache on...respectfully...and do no harm.

 

bradmanz

Brad Manzenberger

Owner, Stone Revival Cemetery Restoration

[+2ofHis]

There is a cache here in Central Wisconsin, near Neilsville, at a war memorial grounds known as the Highground. Part of the memorial is a Native American effigy mound. The cache in question is a multi-, and part of it requires you to actually go and step onto the effigy mound. I had my doubts at first, until I read the plaque at the edge of the mound. It exhorted people to walk on the mound, to dance, to play, to let their children run & frolic on it, to thereby celebrate the life of those whose earthly remains were layed beneath it. Thus encouraged, I RESPECTFULLY walked onto the mound, got the info neccessary for the cache, gave a moment of silent and reverant meditation for those gone before, and went on my way. I don't believe I was in any way disrespectful, but I guess you are entitled to feel how you will.

[+j_czerwin]

It seems to me that you would not put a cache in someone's property without permission, and the bodies in a cemetary are on a leased plot of land. Wouldnt' you need to have permission from the cemetary? What do you think the cemetary would say?

 

Most importantly -- how about a Attribute for cemetary so those against it can stay out of it.

 

Also, another post talked about power cachers and Guinness records -- I would hope that cemetaries would be off of the list for them -- how respectful can you be in 30 seconds?!?

 

And then there is a dead geocacher that WANTS a cache in their headstone. I think they should coordinate with a cemetary to be closer to the road or something. A friend of the family had this EXACT scenario and the cemetary said no. -- not even accepting a virtual.

 

I live in CA and when I travel to the east coast the cemetary ones freak me out. I would filter them if there was an attribute I knew about...

[+Glenn]

<snip>

How would you like hundreds of people running all over the place where you buried your mother, father, child just to play a game.

<snip>

I would like to know your opinions for or against.

I don't know where you geocache but the caches around here are lucky if they see one visitor a month. Saying that hundreds of people could be running all over the place looking for the same cache extremely overstates the popularity of the game.

 

As far as geocachers visiting my fathers grave. I really don't think my father cares very much either way. I would rather have a geocacher visit the grave marker, as part of a clue to a puzzle, than to have the grave marker knocked over, broken and/or spray painted by some hoodlum.

[+Confucius' Cat]

It seems to me that you would not put a cache in someone's property without permission, and the bodies in a cemetary are on a leased plot of land. Wouldnt' you need to have permission from the cemetary? What do you think the cemetary would say?

 

Most importantly -- how about a Attribute for cemetary so those against it can stay out of it.

 

Also, another post talked about power cachers and Guinness records -- I would hope that cemetaries would be off of the list for them -- how respectful can you be in 30 seconds?!?

 

And then there is a dead geocacher that WANTS a cache in their headstone. I think they should coordinate with a cemetary to be closer to the road or something. A friend of the family had this EXACT scenario and the cemetary said no. -- not even accepting a virtual.

 

I live in CA and when I travel to the east coast the cemetary ones freak me out. I would filter them if there was an attribute I knew about...

I might be wrong, but I believe the current policy requires explicit permission for cemetary caches. At least i have heard of some being denied or approval held up pending a permission letter.

 

The icon thing WOULD be a great idea I think, it would be helpful for those who like them as well as for those who don't.

 

OK, I'll bite... why do the "east coast ones" freak you out? Are the east coast cemtaries different than those in CA?

[+Bud]

Sorry to come so late to the discussion.

 

I've been geocaching for a little while and have a few finds, some of which are in cemeteries. I've placed a cache in my own family cemetery, because I'm a proponent of not forgetting those who come before us, GCW1C8.

 

We also make it a point in Kentucky to mention any interesting sights that you may see in these cemeteries, such as decorated war veterans. As a veteran myself, I don't find that disrespectful. I would invite the OP to view our Kentucky Spirit Quest guidelines, adapted from the Indiana Spirit Quest guidelines, designed specifically to avoid any potential problems with the non-caching community, not to mention spelling assistance by not spelling cemetery with an "a" , KSQ guidelines here.

 

Having lived in Texas for many years, I know the importance of Dia de Los Muertos and spending time with the dead so that we remember them and not be fearful of them, and I think that we can extend this to geocaching as well in an attempt to minimize these complaints.

 

It's also been mentioned before that cachers who are concerned about possible disrespect to graves could avoid the hunts there altogether, which I would certainly be in favor of. I have seen a few cemetery hides that I thought were sketchy, and have posted maintenance/archival notes, and would recommend the general community to do, just to police ourselves, before we have any more incidents like the ones in SC.

 

These are my thoughts, most of which are not too original to what has been discussed, but which may be useful in further discourse.

 

Be well and cache safely.

[+SixDogTeam]

 

I've been geocaching for a little while and have a few finds, some of which are in cemeteries. I've placed a cache in my own family cemetery, because I'm a proponent of not forgetting those who come before us, GCW1C8.

 

We also make it a point in Kentucky to mention any interesting sights that you may see in these cemeteries, such as decorated war veterans. As a veteran myself, I don't find that disrespectful. I would invite the OP to view our Kentucky Spirit Quest guidelines, adapted from the Indiana Spirit Quest guidelines, designed specifically to avoid any potential problems with the non-caching community, not to mention spelling assistance by not spelling cemetery with an "a" , KSQ guidelines here.

 

 

 

We had no idea there were 26 "Kentucky Spirit Quest" Caches. How on earth did we miss that? And we are proud that that they were modeled after ISQ's. I believe we had some small part in Indiana's reviewers requiring the no night caching icon be displayed on all Indiana cemetery caches. I hope the KSQ's follow that lead. We may have to put together a Spring Cache Tour down that way!! Wow!