my logs s*ck

[+Bad_CRC]

When I go to a great cache, and have a blast looking for it, I tend to leave extremely appreciative logs and include photos if the area is pretty.

 

But when I go to an average or carpy cache, I tend to be less glowing. One of the caches that made me realize this was for a cache at a memorial, where the cache was actually hidden right in the memorial, we got really uncomfortable digging around in the bushes and garden right at an active memorial, so we left without a find. I posted a DNF log saying that we didn't find because we were uncomfortable looking there... not thinking or intending at the time that it could be considered a slight against the cache owner.

 

I had another find that was hidden right along a fence with 4 huge snarling barking dogs behind it... literally inches away, and I posted that it was hard to be stealthy with large dogs right nearby. Just a comment, not meant to disparage, but I think it could be taken that way.

 

and of course, for most carpy caches, I'll post a TNLN TFTC like everyone else.

 

Now that I've seen the logs in retrospect, I don't really see a point in adding them like that. cache owners really just want to see that people had fun, and to be thanked for their effort.

 

I'm thinking of only saying how great every cache is, even when it's not. What are people's opinions on this? Do you always say you had a blast, even when the cache was a badly placed micro? I certainly don't want to bring anyone down over something as trivial, there's enough other reasons to be depressed these days.

[+ThePropers]

My logs are usually equivalent to how much I enjoyed my caching experience, so my logs probably sound much like yours. I have found myself badmouthing the cache in my logs (take this log for example) or pointing out other unfavorable things, such as barking dogs or security personnel or dirty looks from people.

 

On the other hand, I am positively glowing when the caching experience is very good and I have a great time.

 

I am also guilty of leaving the "TNLNSL" log for caches in parking lots, where there just isn't much to say one way or another. For other caches that aren't really that remarkable, but are still enjoyable, I'll comment on the trail or location or container or say something else positive.

Edited October 26, 2006 by ThePropers

[+Stunod]

I think my logs also reflect my level of enjoyment. I won't be flat-out rude in my log, but I will state if there are any issues future hunters should be aware of.

I have been known to leave logs that say only "Thanks for the " because that was all I got out of finding the cache: an online smilie...

[+Woodlit]

If I had a great time finding a cache, I make sure I say just how much fun I had. Include details of my search and also post pictures.

When it comes to a badly placed cache, I will tell them that I didn't like the area and exactly why. If it was to close to private property, etc. I feel that potenial finders have the right to know if it is a bad area.

Now carpy caches is a different story. Like you said, I see no reason to trash on somebody else's geocache, so to keep it simple i'll mention about how long it took me, what I took, what i left, and of course always say thank you. Carpy or not, they took the time to place this thing here, so other people can run out and find it. But how you say those things can tell them a lot. The first few caches I hid, everybody always mention that they found it right away, and nothing else. So after that I spent more time on containers and camo. Then I realized people wouldn't say anything about their trip. So I would work on better areas, more difficult surrounds, better hike, better view, etc. It was peoples criticism that pushed me to work on my caches. Now the logs for my caches are a lot better. People are going into detail on how much they like them.

So sometimes a few bad logs are all a person needs to realize they should take more time for placing their caches. Then everybody benefits from better geocaches.

[+Sherman T. Potter]

Interesting thoughts.....

 

I usually try to say something nice about the cache or the hunt if it's warranted. I think with so many caches out there and the number growing daily, we are not going to be "moved" by all of them. Not to say I don't appreciate the cache but some are obviously better than others. A quick grab-n-go micro is not going to hold the same place with me as some awesome cache I really had to work for.

I just started placing caches after having found just over a hundred, so I consider myself a novice. So I guess I would want honest feedback regarding a cache rather than "fluff"......assuming the cacher is experienced. (But that starts a whole debate about at which point one is "experienced").

 

STP

[+briansnat]

I used to look at caches as a gift from the owner and tried to be as kind as possible, even if I felt the cache was lame, or unappealing. I would at the very least say thanks. But these days, with so many thoughtlessly placed caches that obviously have no purpose other than to boost the owner's hide count, I'm more inclined to be honest.

 

I think that glowing logs about lousy caches will only encourge the owner to place more caches like that. You don't have to rip the cache, but if you didn't enjoy the cache hunt, I don't think being dishonest about your experience is the answer.

[+cimawr]

If I had a great time finding a cache, I make sure I say just how much fun I had. Include details of my search and also post pictures.

When it comes to a badly placed cache, I will tell them that I didn't like the area and exactly why. If it was to close to private property, etc. I feel that potenial finders have the right to know if it is a bad area.

 

That's my take on it. I may even LIKE a cache, but feel that potential finders should be aware of something the hider forgot to mention - whether deliberately or not - or wasn't aware of (like the one I mentioned in another thread which had barbed wire and tons of broken glass semi-buried in the nearby leaves), or the time I had the cops called because the homeowner on whose property line the coordinates put me thought I was a prowler.

 

Now carpy caches is a different story. Like you said, I see no reason to trash on somebody else's geocache, so to keep it simple i'll mention about how long it took me, what I took, what i left, and of course always say thank you.

 

And also my take; I may think a hide's a bit lame, or sloppily/lazily put together, but I don't say anything other than that I found it, what I left/took, etc. UNLESS it's something that would really affect other finders - things like "The pencil's broken, bring your own" or "I think I might have called this a small cache rather than a regular" (which matters in terms of what people bring for trade items), or similar.

[+sbell111]

If I don't love a specific cache, but there really isn't anything wrong that should be reported, I'll typically just explain my day. 'Found a few driving home from the airport', 'Decided to ditch work for a few minutes and go after a cache', etc.

[+biosearch]

I tell an owner that I like their cache if it a good experience. If it isn't, for whatever reason, I will let them know, but try my best to be polite about it. For instance the dogs, I would probably send a private message to the owner saying something to the effect of, "don't know if they were there when you placed the cache, but there are some very large dogs near the cache. If that was your intent....." yadda, yadda...

 

I've contacted a couple owners in that manner. My experience has been positive in that regard. The owners, to this point, have been thankful that I've pointed things out.

 

I make use of the individual to individual message ability.

 

Just a thought.

[+uxorious]

I thought part of the reason for the logs was to help not only the owner, but other cachers when there is a problem. A neighbor just got a new mean dog, the bridge on the trail washed out, hornets nest next to the cache, etc.

 

If I see something I think needs to be mentioned, I will. I don't think that is trashing the cache. Particularly if I also can add I did like the cache. (Harder to do if I thought the cache was lame too..)

 

I have limited mobility, and some things that seemed like nothing back in the days a ten mile hike was not unusual, now really need to be taken into account. (these days a one or two mile hike makes me lay awake in pain for a couple nights.)

 

A lot of people have different levels, and sometimes it is not clear in the cache description. I don't think it is an insult to mention them.

[+eagletrek]

Tell it like it is. Tell the truth; good, bad, or indifferent.

[+sbell111]

I used to look at caches as a gift from the owner and tried to be as kind as possible, even if I felt the cache was lame, or unappealing. I would at the very least say thanks. But these days, with so many thoughtlessly placed caches that obviously have no purpose other than to boost the owner's hide count, I'm more inclined to be honest. ...

Tell it like it is. Tell the truth; good, bad, or indifferent.

I read these kind of responses in similar threads often. The problem with this attitude is that it tends to stifle the hiding of new caches. These new caches might have been great, OK, or lousy, but why should I hide any more, if someone might take the opportunity to thrash it? Edited October 26, 2006 by sbell111

[+BlueDeuce]

I used to look at caches as a gift from the owner and tried to be as kind as possible, even if I felt the cache was lame, or unappealing. I would at the very least say thanks. But these days, with so many thoughtlessly placed caches that obviously have no purpose other than to boost the owner's hide count, I'm more inclined to be honest. ...

Tell it like it is. Tell the truth; good, bad, or indifferent.

I read these kind of responses in similar threads often. The problem with this attitude is that it tends to stifle the hiding of new caches. These new caches might have been great, OK, or lousy, but why should I hide any more, if someone might take the opportunity to thrash it?

 

If you just state the facts and not editorialize then you can't be faulted for your posting.

 

"I outran the bull, dug through a pile of garbage and was shot at by a landowner. Thanks!"

[+sbell111]

If you just state the facts and not editorialize then you can't be faulted for your posting.

 

"I outran the bull, dug through a pile of garbage and was shot at by a landowner. Thanks!"

Agreed, but many people use the truth as an excuse to release their inner Beavis.

[+briansnat]

I used to look at caches as a gift from the owner and tried to be as kind as possible, even if I felt the cache was lame, or unappealing. I would at the very least say thanks. But these days, with so many thoughtlessly placed caches that obviously have no purpose other than to boost the owner's hide count, I'm more inclined to be honest. ...

Tell it like it is. Tell the truth; good, bad, or indifferent.

I read these kind of responses in similar threads often. The problem with this attitude is that it tends to stifle the hiding of new caches. These new caches might have been great, OK, or lousy, but why should I hide any more, if someone might take the opportunity to thrash it?

 

Hopefully it will stifle the hiding of new thoughtlessly placed caches and encourage the owner to put a little more thought into his next hides. If someone is so thin skinned that he can't accept criticism, then perhaps hiding caches isn't for them. Every cache owner gets critical logs now and them.

 

I'm not talking about flaming a cache owner or being rude, but if more people were honest perhaps the overall quality of caches might increase.

[+sbell111]

Hopefully it will stifle the hiding of new thoughtlessly placed caches and encourage the owner to put a little more thought into his next hides. If someone is so thin skinned that he can't accept criticism, then perhaps hiding caches isn't for them. Every cache owner gets critical logs now and them.

 

I'm not talking about flaming a cache owner or being rude, but if more people were honest perhaps the overall quality of caches might increase.

What I posted just above applies.

 

It is not the truth that is at issue. If there are problems with a cache, certainly thet should be addressed in the logs. However, those cachers who trash the caches in their log just because it wasn't the best cache ever are 'a danger to the game', in my opinion.

 

Some caches are great. Others are just caches. People need to stop being personally offended if they don't absolutely love every, single cache.

[+Woodlit]

I'm not talking about flaming a cache owner or being rude, but if more people were honest perhaps the overall quality of caches might increase.

 

100% true

[+BlueDeuce]

If you just state the facts and not editorialize then you can't be faulted for your posting.

 

"I outran the bull, dug through a pile of garbage and was shot at by a landowner. Thanks!"

Agreed, but many people use the truth as an excuse to release their inner Beavis.

 

Yep.

[+jmmhooper]

If you just state the facts and not editorialize then you can't be faulted for your posting.

 

"I outran the bull, dug through a pile of garbage and was shot at by a landowner. Thanks!"

Agreed, but many people use the truth as an excuse to release their inner Beavis.

 

Yep.

 

I have yet to be rude in a posting, I figure they went through the trouble to put it together why be rude. Why criticize their choice of location. I have the choice to search it out or not.

[+Okiebryan]

I struggle with this. I have in the past posted in a log that I was expecting something more, or that I would have done something a little differently... but then I got a few emails from COs defending their caches.

 

So pretty much now all I do is say thanks for the cache, or something short like that.... but if a cache is good, I write a novel.

 

I guess it's like Grandma used to tell me, "If you don't have something nice to say, shut yer trap." I guess I'll stick with that logic for now.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I'm a Scorpio. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. Though I do seem to have mellowed after a few years of geocaching. I tend to be truthful. If I can think of nothing kind to say about a cache, I won't. From the last discussion of this subject, I picked up a great line: "Mopping up microspew". And I've used it. Sorta says it all. Also in the last discussion, one of my best lines: "Second ugliest place I've ever hunted a cache." The owner thought it hilarious.

If a cache lets me down, I will express my concern. Especially for the four that had not been hidden before I went searching. Or the Chinese food container I found recently. They make terrible caches! If the view is great, I try to remember to say so.

[+Mule Ears]

In my area we've experienced a little outbreak of too much honesty in cache logs. One cacher in particular has been on the receiving end of a lot of sniping and griping in found-it logs. Even on his caches that the critics approve of, they give him left-handed compliments like 'not in a trash heap this time, and includes a pencil--quite an improvement.' The guy's put a lot of work and imagination into his caches, but he offended some of our more prolific cachers early on, so he's getting the dirty end of the stick. (And, OK, some of his in-town caches aren't in the most scenic locations, but hey...) It hasn't gone unnoticed, either. Another cacher just put out a cache with a can't-we-all-just-get-along theme.

 

I'm with SBell on the indirect approach. If you can't find something praiseworthy about the cache, talk about the hunt, or the trip, or something else. It's not necessary (and not wise) to peddle false praise, but it's unnecessary to be mean.

[+BlueDeuce]

If you just state the facts and not editorialize then you can't be faulted for your posting.

 

"I outran the bull, dug through a pile of garbage and was shot at by a landowner. Thanks!"

Agreed, but many people use the truth as an excuse to release their inner Beavis.

 

Yep.

 

I have yet to be rude in a posting, I figure they went through the trouble to put it together why be rude. Why criticize their choice of location. I have the choice to search it out or not.

 

I was just talking about this to a caching buddy just yesterday.

 

One cache in my opinion was in a bad location, a bad hide, with a crappy container, but I don't say anything specifically about it. Just the facts about waiting for the guy to finish his joint so I can search playground equipment, seeing the container in plain site and not being able to cover it up. (I was FTF and have the logs to prove it if requested) Then other people come along and say what a great cache it is.

 

Okay. I really don't think I'm THAT far off in my thinking that I've mis-judged what is supposed to be a great cache.

 

So what does this have to do with the thread topic? Not much.

 

Personally, considering I don't critique bad caches, I post very little in my logs.

 

My advice is anybody just getting short log postings should re-consider their cache placements

 

 

(Oh by the way, as for that 'I have a choice' comment, how do I know that it's a cache I don't want to search for? being FTF and all.)

Edited October 26, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+SniperChicken]

I love doing those caches that make you feel good and are glad that you chose that cache to do! Several times i have said to myself "that was awesome!" and will definitely let that reflect in my online log...but you always run into those that you find fault with;caches hidden where you thought were unappropriate or bordering "against regulations" . I always try to relay my thought in the log but never try to leave any verbage that would discourage anyone from attempting that particular cache or other hides by that geocacher. The majority of all the geocachers i have met have had a very pleasant demeanor about them,the sport emits that type of aura...we do not need to ire ourselfs or our fellow cachers ,we must try our best not to taint this sport and at the same time help maintain the quality of our caches. In every area there are cachers who are like mentors.Newcomers to the sport or even experienced cachers go to them for advice and even help in finding difficult caches. Quality in,quality out,we all need to make a good example for others to follow. Amen

SniperChicken

[+jmmhooper]

(Oh by the way, as for that 'I have a choice' comment, how do I know that it's a cache I don't want to search for? being FTF and all.)

 

What I meant was if you want to be rude and complain about a location, you know where approx. you are going i.e parking lot, alley......... don't go search it out if you are not going to like the area. Instead of going there searching in trash then go online and complain about the area, thats what I meant.

 

I agree if you want to complain about what is in the cache or nitpick the container then you won't know until you find it, I grant you that.

[+BlueDeuce]

(Oh by the way, as for that 'I have a choice' comment, how do I know that it's a cache I don't want to search for? being FTF and all.)

 

What I meant was if you want to be rude and complain about a location, you know where approx. you are going i.e parking lot, alley......... don't go search it out if you are not going to like the area. Instead of going there searching in trash then go online and complain about the area, thats what I meant.

 

I agree if you want to complain about what is in the cache or nitpick the container then you won't know until you find it, I grant you that.

 

Just to clarify, I didn't complain about what was in the cache or nitpick the container in the log and I don't think anyone should. I do think that it is possible to hold a direct conversation with a cache owner to discuss why, for example, a tin coffee can isn't a good choice for a cache container. And it is probably in the best interest of the community to do so.

 

I do think there are times when caches are 'on the line' that it is best to remember that I don't know everything and now is the time to keep my mouth shut. I look at the cache today and my opinion still hasn't changed, but neither has my approach. I just shake my head and hope that maybe someday I'll see why it's such a great cache.

Edited October 27, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+Kit Fox]

When I go to a great cache, and have a blast looking for it, I tend to leave extremely appreciative logs and include photos if the area is pretty.

 

But when I go to an average or carpy cache, I tend to be less glowing. One of the caches that made me realize this was for a cache at a memorial, where the cache was actually hidden right in the memorial, we got really uncomfortable digging around in the bushes and garden right at an active memorial, so we left without a find. I posted a DNF log saying that we didn't find because we were uncomfortable looking there... not thinking or intending at the time that it could be considered a slight against the cache owner.

 

I had another find that was hidden right along a fence with 4 huge snarling barking dogs behind it... literally inches away, and I posted that it was hard to be stealthy with large dogs right nearby. Just a comment, not meant to disparage, but I think it could be taken that way.

 

and of course, for most carpy caches, I'll post a TNLN TFTC like everyone else.

 

Now that I've seen the logs in retrospect, I don't really see a point in adding them like that. cache owners really just want to see that people had fun, and to be thanked for their effort.

 

I'm thinking of only saying how great every cache is, even when it's not. What are people's opinions on this? Do you always say you had a blast, even when the cache was a badly placed micro? I certainly don't want to bring anyone down over something as trivial, there's enough other reasons to be depressed these days.

 

This is like making a kid with failing grades "student of the month" to build his self esteem. It makes no sense to reward bad behavior.

 

I used to look at caches as a gift from the owner and tried to be as kind as possible, even if I felt the cache was lame, or unappealing. I would at the very least say thanks. But these days, with so many thoughtlessly placed caches that obviously have no purpose other than to boost the owner's hide count, I'm more inclined to be honest. ...

Tell it like it is. Tell the truth; good, bad, or indifferent.

I read these kind of responses in similar threads often. The problem with this attitude is that it tends to stifle the hiding of new caches. These new caches might have been great, OK, or lousy, but why should I hide any more, if someone might take the opportunity to thrash it?

 

Hopefully it will stifle the hiding of new thoughtlessly placed caches and encourage the owner to put a little more thought into his next hides. If someone is so thin skinned that he can't accept criticism, then perhaps hiding caches isn't for them. Every cache owner gets critical logs now and them.

 

I'm not talking about flaming a cache owner or being rude, but if more people were honest perhaps the overall quality of caches might increase.

 

I don't buy the argument that brutally honest logs will stifle the placing of new caches. I got two "critical logs" on one of my first cache placements. Which happened to be a hard to find micro, in a nice, unknown park. The fact that the cache was a "needle in a haystack," is why I got the critical logs.

 

Did I quite caching because of this minor setback? Absolutely not, I stepped up to the plate, hid a larger cache, in a better location (same park). I've since hidden 80 more caches, and consider my mistake a valuable lesson.

 

If a simple criticism of a first cache (not an attack on their character) causes someone to quit caching, then they were to thin skinned to hide caches in the first place. I remember very fondly the email lashing I received from a cache owner when I was honest in my log. His cache was hidden in an area frequented by homeless people, as a restroom. When I wrote about my unpleasant experience, as well as the shock of my 3 yr old nearly grabbing a pile of feces, the owner flipped out.

 

The reason he flipped out, is that this was the cache his young son was so proud of, and he was embarassed by the honest log. Had the father actually scoped the area out a little better, the whole incident wouldn't have happened. Had I not been honest in my log, other cachers would risk disease transmission, hunting for the cache.

 

Be honest in your logs, stating what was wrong with the cache, and why. Never make your logs a personal attack on the cache owner.

 

Lead by Example, Hide Great Gaches, in Great Locations.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Kit Fox

[+Bad_CRC]

This is like making a kid with failing grades "student of the month" to build his self esteem. It makes no sense to reward bad behavior.

 

Lead by Example, Hide Great Gaches, in Great Locations.

 

I don't think it's the same thing, it's more like saying thank you to the hosts on the way out of a dinner or a party even if it wasn't that fun. I don't like micros nearly as much as real caches, but logging every micro as "Micros suck. quit hiding them." wouldn't really do anythingbut make me look like a jerk.

 

And that's part of the reason I posted this, I have yet to have anyone post a negative log about one of my caches, I'm sure it would make me feel bad if (when) someone does, because I tried hard to make my caches worthy of the effort people make to find them.

[+BadAndy]

42

[+chuckwagon101]

Accentuate the positive! There is beauty and things of interest all around!

 

A dove built a nest within a foot of a micro on one of the first caches I found. She sat on the nest as I retrieved the film container and signed the log. Leaving a note about the dove was a plus for me and a heads-up for future cachers. I could just as easily have painted it in a less favorable light.....or simply said ....TFTC.

I think I enjoyed that micro more than all the other swag-filled caches I have found.....a grand total of about 15!

 

Chuckwagon

[+briansnat]

There is beauty and things of interest all around!

 

Obviously you've never been to Bayonne

[+parker313]

Cache logs are not only for the cache owner, they are also for the cachers who will come along in the future and search for this cache. If you felt uncomfortable searching at an active memorial, or felt quite intimidated and visible b/c of snarling dogs, those are important things that future cachers could find quite important.

 

As with all things, there is a way to be honest while still being tactful and there's being honest while being flat out rude. Your choice

[+9Key]

Brutally honest logs don't seem to have made a dent in the number of terrible caches in my area. I think it galvanizes the hiders, for some warped reason.

[+Jhwk]

see my promise below - no matter my perceived "quality" I will always take the time to thank you for putting out a cache. For me, it's just common courtesy, and we need a little of that now and again.

[+Kit Fox]

Accentuate the positive! There is beauty and things of interest all around!

 

A dove built a nest within a foot of a micro on one of the first caches I found. She sat on the nest as I retrieved the film container and signed the log. Leaving a note about the dove was a plus for me and a heads-up for future cachers. I could just as easily have painted it in a less favorable light.....or simply said ....TFTC.

I think I enjoyed that micro more than all the other swag-filled caches I have found.....a grand total of about 15!

 

Chuckwagon

 

I've done that before!

 

I just love these "scenic geocaching spots" in the city. The trashed filled ditch was in "full bloom", but the "waterfall" was dry. My olfactory senses were stimulated by the alluring scent I encountered at this cache spot.

Thanks for the cache (I think )

 

This is one of my brutally honest logs. The finder was at first miffed about my log, but admitted that they had recently found a bunch of my caches, and liked them so much, that they understood my reasoning.

 

I straddled the blackwater cesspool, and sifted through the trash until I found the cache. I used my back to block the curious eyes of Denny's patrons. The location leaves much to be desired.

 

 

A great way to "thank" cachers for placing caches in nasty areas is the double entendre log.

 

Thanks for bringing me to your special place!

[+jmmhooper]

I straddled the blackwater cesspool, and sifted through the trash until I found the cache. I used my back to block the curious eyes of Denny's patrons. The location leaves much to be desired.

 

A great way to "thank" cachers for placing caches in nasty areas is the double entendre log.

 

Thanks for bringing me to your special place!

 

I don't get it...why would you continue the search in an area you did not like? You don't need to build up your stats that much do you? Just go to next cache leave that one.

 

There is one close houses on the wyoming praire I am not comfortable going after, don't like being watched, so i just skipped it.

[+Kit Fox]

I straddled the blackwater cesspool, and sifted through the trash until I found the cache. I used my back to block the curious eyes of Denny's patrons. The location leaves much to be desired.

 

A great way to "thank" cachers for placing caches in nasty areas is the double entendre log.

 

Thanks for bringing me to your special place!

 

I don't get it...why would you continue the search in an area you did not like? You don't need to build up your stats that much do you? Just go to next cache leave that one.

 

There is one close houses on the wyoming praire I am not comfortable going after, don't like being watched, so i just skipped it.

 

Both of those logs were over a year old. I posted them as an example.

 

Whenever I find caches like that now, they go straight to my ignore list. Here is a recent note I posted on a cache page that said nothing about the hiding location.

 

Solved puzzle, discovered a busy parking lot, skipped cache.

 

I normally weed out these caches in my pocket queries by only searching for difficulty levels of 2.5 or higher, and or a terrain rating of atleast 2.5 to 5. The pocket query is a valuable tool to me. Most "1/1" caches are parking lot hides that don't appeal to me anymore.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Kit Fox

[+KBI]

I used to look at caches as a gift from the owner and tried to be as kind as possible, even if I felt the cache was lame, or unappealing. I would at the very least say thanks. But these days, with so many thoughtlessly placed caches that obviously have no purpose other than to boost the owner's hide count, I'm more inclined to be honest. ...

Tell it like it is. Tell the truth; good, bad, or indifferent.

I read these kind of responses in similar threads often. The problem with this attitude is that it tends to stifle the hiding of new caches. These new caches might have been great, OK, or lousy, but why should I hide any more, if someone might take the opportunity to thrash it?

I agree up to a point, but just how much tiptoeing around are we supposed to do?

 

It is not the truth that is at issue. If there are problems with a cache, certainly thet should be addressed in the logs. However, those cachers who trash the caches in their log just because it wasn't the best cache ever are 'a danger to the game', in my opinion.

 

Some caches are great. Others are just caches. People need to stop being personally offended if they don't absolutely love every, single cache.

One extreme is never to say anything negative. The other extreme is to be brutally honest, giving one's complete and true opinion every single time with no sugar-coating. I think the best policy lies somewhere in between – but where?

 

A line has to be drawn somewhere. Where each of us draws that line is a matter of judgment, and it's not always an easy call.

 

My solution is to put myself in their shoes and imagine how I might react if it were me in the other person’s place. The Golden Rule, pretty much. The major flaw with that policy lies in the fact that people come equipped with staggeringly different levels of sensitivity, patience and reason, and a cache log which wouldn’t bother me as a cache owner might cause the next person to totally fly off the handle – therefore I try to err on the side of sugar-coating, but without holding back any critical info that future seekers of the cache might really need to know.

 

I logged a cache once which contained a mildly negative, yet factual and honest description of my experience. Nothing outstanding or sensational, just your typical boring log. The owner was on a two-month break from caching at the time. When he eventually logged back in and saw my comments, he promptly deleted my smiley with no warning or explanation. My emails to him went largely unanswered, yet my attempts to re-log kept getting immediately deleted. I brought the whole thing up in the forums to seek advice, which resulted in him finally letting my smiley stand. He then archived the cache in protest. Go figure.

 

No matter what you do you’re eventually going to step on somebody’s toes. Just use your best judgment, and don’t worry about it.

[+eagletrek]

As I've stated before, I tell the truth; good, bad, or indifferent but I must also agree with the comment about "leading by example".

 

If you place challenging, well constructed, and well thought out caches, you'll for the most part get great comments and indirectly encourage new cachers to give some thought to their caches before hiding them.

 

Recently, a new cacher in my area visited a number of my caches before placing any of his. He also emailed me for advise on cache construction and placement. A few days ago, I had the pleasure of finding his first four caches. They all got great reviews as this new cacher ensured his caches were well hidden, well thought out, required a nice hike, and were placed in an interesting area.

 

"Great caches most always get great logs!!!"

Edited October 27, 2006 by eagletrek

[+sbell111]

I agree up to a point, but just how much tiptoeing around are we supposed to do?

You know, I never find myself tiptoing around. If there is a real issue with a cache, I mention it.

 

I once almost got bitten by a crazed pooch who lived across the street from a cache. I described my experience in detail in the log. Interestingly, no one else mentioned a dog in previous or future logs.

 

If I find a wet cache, I mention it in the log.

 

If I come upon an angry landowner, I mention it in the log.

 

If I think the cache is lame, I keep my trap shut.

[+KBI]

I agree up to a point, but just how much tiptoeing around are we supposed to do?

You know, I never find myself tiptoing around. If there is a real issue with a cache, I mention it.

 

I once almost got bitten by a crazed pooch who lived across the street from a cache. I described my experience in detail in the log. Interestingly, no one else mentioned a dog in previous or future logs.

 

If I find a wet cache, I mention it in the log.

 

If I come upon an angry landowner, I mention it in the log.

 

If I think the cache is lame, I keep my trap shut.

That pretty much describes my habit as well. I rarely criticize anyone's creativity, and when I do I try to be sensitive and constructive about it.

 

You’re right to point out that there is a difference between practical elements and creative elements. I don’t think creativity is the topic here, however. The OP said:

... But when I go to an average or carpy cache, I tend to be less glowing. One of the caches that made me realize this was for a cache at a memorial, where the cache was actually hidden right in the memorial, we got really uncomfortable digging around in the bushes and garden right at an active memorial, so we left without a find. I posted a DNF log saying that we didn't find because we were uncomfortable looking there... not thinking or intending at the time that it could be considered a slight against the cache owner.

 

I had another find that was hidden right along a fence with 4 huge snarling barking dogs behind it... literally inches away, and I posted that it was hard to be stealthy with large dogs right nearby. Just a comment, not meant to disparage, but I think it could be taken that way...

Memorials, uncomfortable locations and barking dogs are a separate issue from mere lameness. The original post didn't address caches that were free of practical problems but didn't satisfy his expectations of entertainment.

 

Like I said: A line has to be drawn somewhere when commenting on these things in our logs. Where each of us draws that line is a matter of judgment, and it's not always an easy call -- but I'll only take the tiptoeing thing so far. If there's a problem, future finders AND the owner need to know about it. Speaking as a cache owner, I value the feedback.

[+GreyingJay]

I tend to be pretty verbose in my logs if there is some kind of a story to be told. I try to be funny and play up the experience I had finding the cache, whether it was because I got lost trying to navigate there, dropped a flashlight and had to feel around in a field of thistles, etc. Even if the cache was "meh" I try to find something to talk about. You might even find a log or two from me where the cache itself was so hum-drum that I barely even mentioned it, but instead spent 95% of my log talking about the great weather or whatever. "Oh, yeah, and I found the cache... TNLN."

 

I am guilty of being a tad snarky though when there's something about the cache that I don't like. Sometimes it's based on the habits of the hider ("Found yet another Joe Microspew cache. In fact, I think all 6 caches I found today were yours, and I didn't even have to drive farther than 5 minutes on any one of them!")

 

Sometimes the cache owner and I have different opinions of what constitutes a good hiding spot, like the cache tagged "Scenic View" that brought me underneath a freeway bridge whose pylons were covered in graffiti: "Not quite what I would call a scenic view, but it sure was a unique one."

 

A log on a rusted Altoids tin container in which the owner was clearly ignoring the "Needs Maintenance" attributes, as every single log in the past 6 months has mentioned how badly the container is holding up: "I only found it on my way back to the car after I thought I had failed in my search. It was on the ground, a rusted-out lump of metal, looking just like the other trash in the area (bottles, beer cans...) The magnet has nothing to hold onto anymore (glue doesn't stick to rust flakes) so the container was sitting plainly on the ground. I opened it up and sure enough it was a cache, so I signed the log."

 

On a DNF where the cache had been a cardboard box (!): "Yeah, I didn't see it either. I did see the crap in the grass, lots of it, as well as trash, bottles, and junk everywhere. I wasn't too impressed with this one, and I don't think it can still be there given the size of the container I see in the photos and the area to search.

I did find pretty easy parking, though."

[+Renegade Knight]

When I go to a great cache, and have a blast looking for it, I tend to leave extremely appreciative logs and include photos if the area is pretty.

 

But when I go to an average or carpy cache, I tend to be less glowing....

 

Owners need the feedback, good bad or ugly. You don't have to be intestinally cruel. Or if you just don't feel like writing about the cache , nobody said you had too. It can be about that time in the 1st grade when you're best friend invited little Chrissie over for a little show and tell, and boy did she. I wonder whatever happened to her. Maybe she's a geocacher now.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Renegade Knight

[+Pieman]

You should be honest as it helps other people but most people aren't honest. In the UK we have a ratings system that covers about 25% of all finds. It is amazing how some caches with lots of positive logs rate very low when you can vote anonymously.

Edited October 27, 2006 by Pieman

[Trinity's Crew]

I've said it before as have many others. Opinions about caches are largely subjective. This cache and this cache were pretty ordinary caches hidden in typical places in a local park near my home. What truly made them memorable were the experiences we encountered during the hunt. That was one of the most enjoyable outings we ever had and the logs reflect it. I wasn't really inspired to write these logs because of the caches. I was inspired by the fun we had.

[+forthferalz]

I tell an owner that I like their cache if it a good experience. If it isn't, for whatever reason, I will let them know, but try my best to be polite about it. For instance the dogs, I would probably send a private message to the owner saying something to the effect of, "don't know if they were there when you placed the cache, but there are some very large dogs near the cache. If that was your intent....." yadda, yadda...

 

I've contacted a couple owners in that manner. My experience has been positive in that regard. The owners, to this point, have been thankful that I've pointed things out.

 

I make use of the individual to individual message ability.

 

Just a thought.

yes well said! gentle humour works well too. I haven't actually met a cache whose owner meant it to be totally crappy experience but well we all see things differently and hiders don't see what finders see unlesss they beta test a placement and even then ... I moved a barking dog cache to a quieter spot although the snakes or killer wabbits might still be a bother.

[Gryffindork]

Perhaps I'm just easily pleased, or maybe its because i live in a wonderful area for geocaching, but I've never found a cache that i'd describe as "bad". Even if the cache itself was super easy to find, I've always been pleased with the area, the drive, or just the fact that the cache got me out of the house that day.

 

The only cache's i've ever been unhappy with are the ones i cant find, and i'm sure once i've found them i'll be totally thrilled with them as well.

 

I havent hid my first cache yet (still looking for the perfect spot!), but personally i'd like a little criticism, to make my future hides better ones. Granted, i'd probably be very upset if anyone was rude about it.

 

and btw, i dont get people who complain about micros. It should say on the web page what size the cache is, and if you dont like mircos, dont hunt them!

[+halffast]

I have alot of hides.A couple are great hikes with only a couple logs.Most of the others are more or less drive ups.The logs are mostly TFTC and I have had some that say Barking Dogs or the Bees were all over.Because of the Dogs I archived that one.The one with the Bees was dissabled until the bees had left.If not for the honest logs I would not have known of the problems at the cache.So tell it as it is wiothout getting mean about it.

[+Kit Fox]

When I go to a great cache, and have a blast looking for it, I tend to leave extremely appreciative logs and include photos if the area is pretty.

 

But when I go to an average or carpy cache, I tend to be less glowing....

 

Owners need the feedback, good bad or ugly. You don't have to be intestinally cruel. Or if you just don't feel like writing about the cache , nobody said you had too. It can be about that time in the 1st grade when you're best friend invited little Chrissie over for a little show and tell, and boy did she. I wonder whatever happened to her. Maybe she's a geocacher now.

 

I think more cachers should take "scenic pictures" whenever they visit caches in homeless encampments, trash dumpsters, and landfills. This could work as a "stealthy" cache rating system.

 

This would allow prospective cachers to see what they are getting into, before they ever enter the coords into their GPS. As an added bonus, the cache owner won't get his feeling hurt due to mean logs.

 

I want to reiterate that brutally honest logs don't need to be mean spirited, nor do they need to be personal attacks.

Edited October 28, 2006 by Kit Fox

[+KBI]

I want to reiterate that brutally honest logs don't need to be mean spirited, nor do they need to be personal attacks.

Agreed.

 

Here's a recent example (GCVCWF) where I posted a couple of notes which were brutally honest, yet as friendly and diplomatic as I could manage. I had a concern about the cache, and decided that it was too important to ignore. I handled it the way I would have liked for it to have been done for me if I were the owner. (Start with my DNF log* dated Sept 26.)

 

That was over a month ago. It may be too early to tell if the cache is 'virtually archived,' but so far my notes seem to have dissuaded others from hunting the cache. Considering the issue, that's probably a good thing. The owner hasn't contacted me or deleted my notes, but neither has he done anything yet to address the problem. The cache is on my watch list.

 

*(Note: I posted those under my CaptRussell account. I cache as CaptRussell when I'm on the road with my job, and as KBI for all other caching.)

 

(If I ever encounter a cache with "schizophrenia" in the title, I'll log that one under both names. )

 

IMPORTANT: I would like to request that no one else post any notes or SBAs there as a result of this forum post alone. If you've been there or are planning a trip to McAllen then be my guest, but it is not my intent for my forum post to generate a debate on this poor guy's cache page. I'm merely illustrating an example of what I believe is a truthfully-honest-yet-friendly cache page log.