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Too Many Micros?


Polaris1000
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It's irresponsible, and it certainly is a black mark on the hobby of geocaching.

 

Agreed, however just like the people that want to "train" hiders, how to you train this type of seeker? (Whom I wtill believe to be in the minority)

 

Take them Wal-Mart.

 

Understanding the humor (I think) <_< , how will that teach people to be more responsibile when looking for caches?

 

I don't know if you can teach them responsibility, just like you can't teach them that it is not about the numbers. Guardrails and shopping cart corrals were meant to take abuse, maybe if they banged their head off of one enough times it will knock some sense in to them.

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go to a real cache in the woods, there is often a trail or two that goes to the location. damage, but mostly contained.

 

go to a micro in the woods, and you'll see a large area that has been completely trampled. soil compacted, plants dead, groundcover dug up and cleared. all done by supposedly earth-friendly geocachers as they spend time "looking" for a film canister in the woods while bushwacking everything in the way.

 

It's irresponsible, and it certainly is a black mark on the hobby of geocaching.

I've found a few caches and I have to tell you, I have not seen what you are describing.

 

First of all, you are making it appear that any type of damage is common. This is not true. Second, the minimal amount of damage that I have seen is likely to be gone in a very short amount of time; within a few weeks, in my opinion. Given that most caches that require a hike don't get very many searchers and that the number of searchers fall way off after the first few weeks, there is no way that I can buy what your selling.

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The great thing is, micros are approriate in any situation or location.
I disagee with this. I really dislike micros in the woods. As geocachers we should be trying to limit our impact. ...

Certain people make this point somewhat frequently. Thinking about it, however, I can think of very few 'woods' that are going to be damaged by any searching for a micro. I assume that cachers are not chopping trees down and throwing them in a chipper.

 

go to a real cache in the woods, there is often a trail or two that goes to the location. damage, but mostly contained.

 

go to a micro in the woods, and you'll see a large area that has been completely trampled. soil compacted, plants dead, groundcover dug up and cleared. all done by supposedly earth-friendly geocachers as they spend time "looking" for a film canister in the woods while bushwacking everything in the way.

 

It's irresponsible, and it certainly is a black mark on the hobby of geocaching.

 

I just can't relate to this thread...

 

Everyone here keeps talking about "forests" and "woods."

 

What are those? We don't have those here!

 

How do you all find caches in the woods, I get near a couple of eucalyptus trees here and the numbers go haywire. <_<

 

I guess I must be comming from the same direction as Cornerstone4. The woods and forrest of Minnesota and New Jersey must be very different from the coastal brush and scrub of So. California.

 

Yes I guess it is different. There are about half a dozen caches in the area shown in this photo.

 

92ffcbb0-9325-4476-adae-83f67b19bf8a.jpg

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You state that people begin the game and encounter micros. They then hide micros, thereby perpetuating the 'problem'. What you are missing is that they clearly liked the caches that they found enough to emulate them. I fail to see how it could be a problem that people are finding and hiding caches that they enjoy.
No, they just don't know any better. It's a nature vs. nurture arguement. Numbers, micros and spew are degrading caching. Its just a matter time. You see the same thing with geocoins. They used to be rare and unique and now look at it, it's ridiculous. If only people would steal micros at the rate they steal geocoins.

First, I have to believe that you are not seriously advocating the stealing of caches.

 

Second, are you really trying to argue that a noob trys out caching and finds only 'lame' micros. He doesn't have any fun finding those micros but hides a few just like them anyway? I don't believe that this is what actually happens.

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You state that people begin the game and encounter micros. They then hide micros, thereby perpetuating the 'problem'. What you are missing is that they clearly liked the caches that they found enough to emulate them. I fail to see how it could be a problem that people are finding and hiding caches that they enjoy.
No, they just don't know any better. It's a nature vs. nurture arguement. Numbers, micros and spew are degrading caching. Its just a matter time. You see the same thing with geocoins. They used to be rare and unique and now look at it, it's ridiculous. If only people would steal micros at the rate they steal geocoins.

First, I have to believe that you are not seriously advocating the stealing of caches.

 

Second, are you really trying to argue that a noob trys out caching and finds only 'lame' micros. He doesn't have any fun finding those micros but hides a few just like them anyway? I don't believe that this is what actually happens.

 

Stupid is as stupid does and that applies to either your first or second point, but that's the great thing about micros if you can't find the one in the parking lot just go inside to the photo counter and ask for new one.

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You state that people begin the game and encounter micros. They then hide micros, thereby perpetuating the 'problem'. What you are missing is that they clearly liked the caches that they found enough to emulate them. I fail to see how it could be a problem that people are finding and hiding caches that they enjoy.
No, they just don't know any better. It's a nature vs. nurture arguement. Numbers, micros and spew are degrading caching. Its just a matter time. You see the same thing with geocoins. They used to be rare and unique and now look at it, it's ridiculous. If only people would steal micros at the rate they steal geocoins.

First, I have to believe that you are not seriously advocating the stealing of caches.

 

Second, are you really trying to argue that a noob trys out caching and finds only 'lame' micros. He doesn't have any fun finding those micros but hides a few just like them anyway? I don't believe that this is what actually happens.

Stupid is as stupid does and that applies to either your first or second point, but that's the great thing about micros if you can't find the one in the parking lot just go inside to the photo counter and ask for new one.

I have to assume that you don't mean that either of those stupid people are you. Given that assumption, I don't see your point.

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The great thing is, micros are approriate in any situation or location.
I disagee with this. I really dislike micros in the woods. As geocachers we should be trying to limit our impact. ...

Certain people make this point somewhat frequently. Thinking about it, however, I can think of very few 'woods' that are going to be damaged by any searching for a micro. I assume that cachers are not chopping trees down and throwing them in a chipper.

 

go to a real cache in the woods, there is often a trail or two that goes to the location. damage, but mostly contained.

 

go to a micro in the woods, and you'll see a large area that has been completely trampled. soil compacted, plants dead, groundcover dug up and cleared. all done by supposedly earth-friendly geocachers as they spend time "looking" for a film canister in the woods while bushwacking everything in the way.

 

It's irresponsible, and it certainly is a black mark on the hobby of geocaching.

 

I just can't relate to this thread...

 

Everyone here keeps talking about "forests" and "woods."

 

What are those? We don't have those here!

 

How do you all find caches in the woods, I get near a couple of eucalyptus trees here and the numbers go haywire. <_<

 

I guess I must be comming from the same direction as Cornerstone4. The woods and forrest of Minnesota and New Jersey must be very different from the coastal brush and scrub of So. California.

 

Yes I guess it is different. There are about half a dozen caches in the area shown in this photo.

 

92ffcbb0-9325-4476-adae-83f67b19bf8a.jpg

 

A picture is worth a thousand words...and that right there is one good sermon!

That is what it is all about.

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500 caches within 19 miles of my home (a suburban city adjoining metro Birmingham, Alabama)

However, if I move my focus 40 miles south to Clanton, Alabama (still a sizable city) I get:

-snip-

500 caches within 84 miles

 

Your numbers are off - 500 is the max PQ result size for gc.com. If any result gives you 500 then there are likely to be many more.

 

-Ben

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If a new cacher finds a cache, enjoys it, and then hides a similar cache, it is not stupidity. It is merely the enjoyment of the hobby and the act of giving back to others.
All game some and some gave....micros. ~sigh~

Ummm, your personal bias is showing.

 

(This weeks forum topics brought to you by the number 9 and the word 'bias'.

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If a new cacher finds a cache, enjoys it, and then hides a similar cache, it is not stupidity. It is merely the enjoyment of the hobby and the act of giving back to others.
All game some and some gave....micros. ~sigh~

Ummm, your personal bias is showing.

 

(This weeks forum topics brought to you by the number 9 and the word 'bias'.

 

I absolutley 100% have bias, I don't claim not to, I am opinionated and egotistical, too. I think there are too many micros, but there are about 26-27 less than there were.

Edited by D@nim@l
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I absolutley 100% have bias, I don't claim not to, I am opinionated and egotistical, too. I think there are too many micros, but there are about 26-27 less than there were.
<_<

 

Less than when? Why?

You would know better than I.

I see. You are referring to my 26 Praetorian Guard micros that I archived in 2004 after my accident. I took the responsible step. Micros require quite a bit of maintenance and I was physically unable to provide it, so I archived them. Some of them were replaced by others as a tribute to the series, but the originals are long gone.

 

What's your point? ;)

Edited by sbell111
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YAWWWWWWWN...... :D

 

Another, "Let's throw away our right to choose" thread.... :D

 

I guess it just proves "that size does matter." I like all types of caches.

 

Yep. It certainly does. Anyone who tries to tell ya different is actually trying NOT to hurt your feelings. :D

 

WARNING: LONG O.T. TANGENT....

 

Awhile back I was invited to test drive the new Buell crotch rocket. It was a big deal for the local Harley/Buell dealership. They made a regular party out of it. Local radio station, BBQ, lotsa free crap, etc.

 

I'm a big guy and they put me on their most powerful model (somethin' like a hundred ponies to the back wheel) and the group took off on a 30+ minute ride in the country. It was pleasant.

 

When we got back they wanted to interview all the riders.....

 

When my turn was up they asked, "What did you think of the bike?"

 

I said, "It's kinda boggy."

 

The salesman was beside himself. He said, "THAT MACHINE HAS 100 HORSEPOWER!" "How on Earth can you say it's boggy?" "What the heck do you ride?"

 

I pointed to my V-Max (150+bhp & 0-60 in 2 seconds) that was parked about 30 feet away.

 

He just walked away muttering something about rice-burners <_<:):D

 

I was first in line for free BBQ while everyone else was still gettin' the hard sell. :D

 

Yep, I'm roont for every other motorcycle that I ride in the future. They will ALLLLL feel boggy unless I try out a prostock drag bike and THAT ain't bloody likely.

 

Size DOES matter. :D;)

 

05_vmax_red_6.jpg

Edited by Snoogans
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Do rocks have an 'up' and 'down'?
No but its obvious when they have been overturned or disturbed. You may cavalierly dismiss this, but I doubt a park offical who saw a field of overturned boulders at a geocache site would think its a good thing.
I guess I do 'cavalierly dismiss this', but the reason that I do is because you have failed to explain why it matters which side of a rock points up.

 

Not picking a fight, and not disagreeing with your basic point that much geo-damage is superficial and temporary, but I will explain how (some) rocks have an 'up' side. Here in the desert, rocks develop a surface coating called desert varnish. It's a patina of mineralization laid down over a long period of time by the action of bacteria. There's also, of course, lichen growth, which imparts bright colors to desert rocks. Varnish and lichens are the 'up' sides of rocks.

 

In addition to there being an 'up' side, there's also a down side--the moist, cool, shady area where little critters live. It's callous to dry out and destroy these habitats without reason. I'm no cactus-hugger, and I won't exaggerate these things to the level of environmental catastrophe, but there's no reason to thoughtlessly destroy anything. Moving rocks in a stack of rocks is fine, IMO. Replacing them as you found them is better. Flipping over rocks that are seated in soil and leaving them upside down is tantamount to digging.

 

That said, we don't have too much trouble with micros (or super-concealed caches) in the more natural, remote areas here. Those folks who think the whole game is in the hide don't get too far from pavement.

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go to a real cache in the woods, there is often a trail or two that goes to the location. damage, but mostly contained.

 

go to a micro in the woods, and you'll see a large area that has been completely trampled. soil compacted, plants dead, groundcover dug up and cleared. all done by supposedly earth-friendly geocachers as they spend time "looking" for a film canister in the woods while bushwacking everything in the way.

 

It's irresponsible, and it certainly is a black mark on the hobby of geocaching.

I've found a few caches and I have to tell you, I have not seen what you are describing.

 

First of all, you are making it appear that any type of damage is common. This is not true. Second, the minimal amount of damage that I have seen is likely to be gone in a very short amount of time; within a few weeks, in my opinion. Given that most caches that require a hike don't get very many searchers and that the number of searchers fall way off after the first few weeks, there is no way that I can buy what your selling.

 

You know, I think we could be dealing with another regional thing here...

 

I just visited Florida. Unfortunately, the only caches I found were micros in lots for the most part. But, I did manage to do some walking off pavement at times. With the daily rain there, it seems difficult to have any kind of trail unless it is paved. (I know this is an exaggeration, but it leads to my point.) I imagine that if a cache was hidden off-trail, the ground would quickly sprout new growth, and within a few weeks without visitors, the geo-trail would quickly vanish.

 

Here is So. Cal., we can go many months without rain. If you go off-trail in June, you trample the weeds that are there. If you turn over rocks, the bottom of the rocks have dirt stuck them. It could be 6 months before we get rain again, so those telltale signs will stay there until the rains come.

 

Just food for thought.

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If a new cacher finds a cache, enjoys it, and then hides a similar cache, it is not stupidity. It is merely the enjoyment of the hobby and the act of giving back to others.
All game some and some gave....micros. ~sigh~

Ummm, your personal bias is showing.

 

(This weeks forum topics brought to you by the number 9 and the word 'bias'.

 

He just misses TITB... <_<

 

(JK Dan)

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... but I will explain how (some) rocks have an 'up' side. ...

Thanks. I was serious about the question and somewhat surprised that no one answered it.

 

I thought that might be the case. I grew up in Florida and would have had the same reaction until I moved here. Now that I've lived in the Arizona desert for a couple decades, I get it. Trouble is that so many people make so many wild claims that it has become easy to dismiss anything faintly 'environmentally conscious' as nonsense.

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Yep, I'm roont for every other motorcycle that I ride in the future. They will ALLLLL feel boggy unless I try out a prostock drag bike and THAT ain't bloody likely.

 

Size DOES matter.

 

Not that I'm gonna pooh-pooh a V-max, but dude, you haven't been looking at bikes recently.

 

For instance, a late model GSX-R 750 is around 220 lbs lighter and has 155hp. ...750! <_<

 

Or the ZX-14 @ 197 hp and 113 lb-ft on 475 lb bike. ;)

 

Of course, neither are the most comfortable and might have a hard time keeping up with my lowly KLR650 when it's in its element. :)

 

Yeah, everyone I've talked to about the Buell comments on the wonderful advancements in motorcycle technology, yet they cram an ancient engine in it. It is a shame.

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Yep, I'm roont for every other motorcycle that I ride in the future. They will ALLLLL feel boggy unless I try out a prostock drag bike and THAT ain't bloody likely.

 

Size DOES matter.

 

Not that I'm gonna pooh-pooh a V-max, but dude, you haven't been looking at bikes recently.

 

For instance, a late model GSX-R 750 is around 220 lbs lighter and has 155hp. ...750! ;)

 

Or the ZX-14 @ 197 hp and 113 lb-ft on 475 lb bike. <_<

 

Of course, neither are the most comfortable and might have a hard time keeping up with my lowly KLR650 when it's in its element. :)

 

Yeah, everyone I've talked to about the Buell comments on the wonderful advancements in motorcycle technology, yet they cram an ancient engine in it. It is a shame.

 

Depends on how they're geared. The Max is a monster class quarter mile bike. On the short runs it will hang with or out perform nearly ANY cafe bike. The thing steers like a whale though.

 

My days of speed and power are behind me now. The Max tried to kill me (almost) a couple of times and cured me of the need to burn up the road risking life and limb. I'm actually considering sellinfg it....Finally.

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If a new cacher finds a cache, enjoys it, and then hides a similar cache, it is not stupidity. It is merely the enjoyment of the hobby and the act of giving back to others.
All game some and some gave....micros. ~sigh~

Ummm, your personal bias is showing.

 

(This weeks forum topics brought to you by the number 9 and the word 'bias'.

 

He just misses TITB... <_<

 

(JK Dan)

 

Miss him? Heck I wound up making his to do list last night, too!

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If a new cacher finds a cache, enjoys it, and then hides a similar cache, it is not stupidity. It is merely the enjoyment of the hobby and the act of giving back to others.
All game some and some gave....micros. ~sigh~

Ummm, your personal bias is showing.

 

(This weeks forum topics brought to you by the number 9 and the word 'bias'.

 

He just misses TITB... :D

 

(JK Dan)

 

Miss him? Heck I wound up making his to do list last night, too!

 

<_<

 

I stopped by the local Wal Mart skirtlifter today...it's still there. I'll keep you posted. :)

 

;)

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micros in non-urban areas should not be allowed

James, I gotta disagree with you on that. This game has enough guidelines already. While I agree with your sentiment, (35mm film canisters deep in the woods are always lame :o ), convincing your peers of this belief is far preferable to forcing your, (our?), beliefs on others. If you see a micro in the woods, hit your "Ignore" button. If enough people do this, the cache will die a lonesome death, and you can then hide a real cache there, if the spot warrants one.

 

Ammo boxes offer no challenge to find

Sorry Baloo, I think you're wrong. (yeah, I know what my opinion's worth :laughing: ) A creative hider can place an ammo can which will foil any casual hunt.

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Yep, I'm roont for every other motorcycle that I ride in the future. They will ALLLLL feel boggy unless I try out a prostock drag bike and THAT ain't bloody likely.

 

Size DOES matter.

 

Not that I'm gonna pooh-pooh a V-max, but dude, you haven't been looking at bikes recently.

 

For instance, a late model GSX-R 750 is around 220 lbs lighter and has 155hp. ...750! :o

 

Or the ZX-14 @ 197 hp and 113 lb-ft on 475 lb bike. :laughing:

 

Of course, neither are the most comfortable and might have a hard time keeping up with my lowly KLR650 when it's in its element. :(

 

Yeah, everyone I've talked to about the Buell comments on the wonderful advancements in motorcycle technology, yet they cram an ancient engine in it. It is a shame.

 

Depends on how they're geared. The Max is a monster class quarter mile bike. On the short runs it will hang with or out perform nearly ANY cafe bike. The thing steers like a whale though.

 

My days of speed and power are behind me now. The Max tried to kill me (almost) a couple of times and cured me of the need to burn up the road risking life and limb. I'm actually considering sellinfg it....Finally.

Sounds like you're ready to trade in the horsepower of the V-Max for the torque of a Roadliner!

 

07roadliners_silver_1_0093007d.jpg

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Yep, I'm roont for every other motorcycle that I ride in the future. They will ALLLLL feel boggy unless I try out a prostock drag bike and THAT ain't bloody likely.

 

Size DOES matter.

 

Not that I'm gonna pooh-pooh a V-max, but dude, you haven't been looking at bikes recently.

 

For instance, a late model GSX-R 750 is around 220 lbs lighter and has 155hp. ...750! :laughing:

 

Or the ZX-14 @ 197 hp and 113 lb-ft on 475 lb bike. :o

 

Of course, neither are the most comfortable and might have a hard time keeping up with my lowly KLR650 when it's in its element. :)

 

Yeah, everyone I've talked to about the Buell comments on the wonderful advancements in motorcycle technology, yet they cram an ancient engine in it. It is a shame.

 

Depends on how they're geared. The Max is a monster class quarter mile bike. On the short runs it will hang with or out perform nearly ANY cafe bike. The thing steers like a whale though.

 

My days of speed and power are behind me now. The Max tried to kill me (almost) a couple of times and cured me of the need to burn up the road risking life and limb. I'm actually considering sellinfg it....Finally.

Sounds like you're ready to trade in the horsepower of the V-Max for the torque of a Roadliner!

 

 

Nope.

 

I've had my heart set on a Fat Boy for over 10 years & The Snoogstress wants a Harley of her own which works for me, because I can't stand to ride with anyone else on a bike. Plus, chicks that ride on their own are DOUBLE HOT! :(

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I guess I must be comming from the same direction as Cornerstone4. The woods and forrest of Minnesota and New Jersey must be very different from the coastal brush and scrub of So. California.

 

Yes I guess it is different. There are about half a dozen caches in the area shown in this photo.

 

92ffcbb0-9325-4476-adae-83f67b19bf8a.jpg

:laughing:

There are at least 8 in the area shown in this photo.

 

ec751bca-749c-4f62-b380-15a2910ab9f7.jpg

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of course there are exceptions, but it seems that as a rule, micros just aren't very good because there is little investment or motivation involved.

 

when you set up a real cache, you are usually investing hours of time, and at least $20-$50+ for a container, logbook, and startup swag. Significant motivation for a quality cache exists before the cache container is even finished.

 

when someone puts out a micro, they use a free junk film canister from the trash, a sheet of paper, and sometimes a broken half of a pencil. No money, no time invested, and it tends to show in the final result.

 

 

There are plenty of real caches that aren't that great, and I've no doubt there are hundreds of micros that are great caches.

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Everytime I read that someone doesn't like micros I think (as do many others), "If you didn't want to go to Minneapolis why did you get on the train?"

 

Everytime I go to a big city to geocache (I live in a rural, cache challenged area) I think, "Man, this micro crap is getting way out of hand".

 

I like micros. I think there is a place for micros. I turns out, though, that there are a lot more "places" for micros than I had invisioned.

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...you are usually investing hours of time, and at least $20-$50+ for a container, logbook, and startup swag.

 

Regular containers, large enough for most travel bugs and stocked with plenty of goodies, don't have to cost half of $20.

Edited by Team Sagefox
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of course there are exceptions, but it seems that as a rule, micros just aren't very good because there is little investment or motivation involved.

 

when you set up a real cache, you are usually investing hours of time, and at least $20-$50+ for a container, logbook, and startup swag. Significant motivation for a quality cache exists before the cache container is even finished.

 

OK...let's make sure we got this. For a cache to be creative, you have to overpay for the container and spend "at least $20".

 

when someone puts out a micro, they use a free junk film canister from the trash, a sheet of paper, and sometimes a broken half of a pencil. No money, no time invested, and it tends to show in the final result.

 

There are plenty of real caches that aren't that great, and I've no doubt there are hundreds of micros that are great caches.

 

OK, I think I follow now. To be a "real" cache, instead of picking the container out of the trash, you must go and spend money on someone else's surplus (trash) and take a bunch of stuff that would otherwise go in the trash, put it in and then go out and hide it in a fairly obvious spot so others can go through their stuff and unload it in your broken toy receptacle.

 

OK, that changes everything.

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OK...let's make sure we got this. For a cache to be creative, you have to overpay for the container and spend "at least $20".

OK, that changes everything.

Did you have such angst when you were teaching Mowgli? Maybe that's why he had such a hard time getting along with Shere Khan? :P:)

J/K!

 

Can we turn down the exaggeration button just a tad?

Obviously there's some merit in what everyone has said. My preferences tend to lean toward CRC's, in that I agree with the whole, "Effort = Reward" concept. Because I'm on a fairly tight budget, my typical hide costs about $30.

Ammo can = $5

Dollar Store/Wally World/Bullseye swag = $25

Camo = $5

Obviously, a can filled with high end swag would cost more to produce.

 

For our more affluent brethren, $30 is a drop in the bucket. For me, it's a significant investment. Because it's an investment, I make an effort to present a cache finder with an all around pleasant experience, to include a hide that is something more than just plopping a can next to a pine tree and covering it with sticks. If my total investment was a leaky film canister and a damp slip of paper, I might not feel the need to make such an extraordinary effort. That thought process certainly shows itself around here, anyway. Maybe things are different where you hunt.

 

I need to qualify all that with this statement; One thing I've learned to my benefit is that the problem is really with carpy hiders, not carpy hides. I've seen some remarkable micros, (none of them were film cannisters), and some lame regulars. I've learned to ignore the hider, rather than the individual hides. Someone who is uninspired enough to hide a film canister probably wouldn't do a great job hiding a Gladware container.

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It ain't about micros in the OP, but about children . . . it makes sense. ...
If your point is that kids prefer to find trinkets, just sort out the micros.

of course there are exceptions, but it seems that as a rule, micros just aren't very good because there is little investment or motivation involved.

 

when you set up a real cache, you are usually investing hours of time, and at least $20-$50+ for a container, logbook, and startup swag. Significant motivation for a quality cache exists before the cache container is even finished.

 

when someone puts out a micro, they use a free junk film canister from the trash, a sheet of paper, and sometimes a broken half of a pencil. No money, no time invested, and it tends to show in the final result. ...

Two thoughts: First, I have sold a number of micro containers for $10 to $20 each. Second, there are a honking lot of regular-sized caches hidden in used food containers and filled with junk drawer carp. The generalization that micro owners are cheap and lazy doesn't wash.

 

BTW, there are 324,315 caches in this picture.

blue%20marble.jpg

Edited by sbell111
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I know of a few cache hides in the area that involves a micro hidden in a heavily wooded area,one of them is even a nano! These can be extremely difficult to find given the area and possible hiding spots that you have to search,even more so when satellite reception is very shoddy.IF you do have to hide a small cache in this type environment it should be reflected in the difficulty level and suitable hints should be given to at least narrow down your search field. I have been guilty of hiding matchstick holder container size caches in the woods myself but i try my best to find a location that would easily be spotted by a cacher given the clue that i give.I don't think there should be a rule against cache size and location but i do think cache hiders need to use common sense in their hides...what if you where the one hunting this cache?? Sure it is easy to spot when you know where it is.

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The generalization that micro owners are cheap and lazy doesn't wash.

I think it's an excellent generalization. Definitely not set in concrete, but a good general description. To whit: Of the micros I find around here, roughly 90% spike my lame meter. That could easily be interpreted as, "In Clan Riffster's area, micros are generally lame". The micros themselves are obviously not to blame, since I've found similar containers as some of my favorite hides, so the most likely conclusion would be the hiders are lame. Since I've learned which hiders to avoid, my lame micro find ratio has dropped to roughly 10%, but my "Ignore" list has grown exponentially. :P

 

Yeah, I know it's subjective. Some folks love nothing more than finding a soggy slip of paper in a film cannister hidden at Burger king. To each there own, I reckon. I still wouldn't advocate any official sanctions against micros, even the lame ones. :)

 

Edit to add: There is only one cache, (an ammo can), in this picture.

28066a78-9c26-4396-a70e-d22267f50c2e.jpg

Edited by Clan Riffster
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Some would suggest that a coffee can hidden under a pile of sticks full of broken McToys and a wet log is a lame cache.

 

Others would believe that a used gladware container in a wet, stinky trash bag is a lame cache.

 

I still think those that believe that micros tend to be more lame than larger caches should simply stop searching for micros.

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A cache is a cache is a cache. I enjoy looking for Ammo cans, and I also enjoy looking for *gasp* micro's. Micro's in the woods are especially fun as it usually takes a lot of time or skill to figure out where it's hidden.

 

I've placed micro's in woods, in cities (one is on the side of an opera house), and also in guardrails and lightpoles. In contrast, I've also placed ammo cans in the woods, and I even have an ammo can hidden in plane sight, in an old historic town, right on a residential street.

 

So why do I place micro's when I know how to hide an ammo can in a very public area? Because no one follow's the trade up, trade even, or don't trade rule. I've often thought about, and am still considering hiding a 7.62mm ammo can, and having a nano stuck to the lid simply for that reason.

 

Now that's not to say I don't hide well stocked caches. I'm just finishing up a 3 cache series, with the 3rd cache a bonus for the other two. This bonus cache is a large ammo can, it's about 3.5 feet tall. The FTF is getting a stocked 7.62mm ammo can. If I had to add up the cost of what everything is worth, it would be $60+, and I'm not even done adding swag to it yet. Are people going to follow the trade up-trade even rule? Nope. Do I really care? Obvoiusly not, as I already know nobody is going to be considerate in the swag they throw in and I'm putting all this money into it.

 

So why do I hide lightpole caches if I know how to hide a "real" cache? Because I like quick pointless micro's too. When I first started caching I went for quick easy finds, and I also did some challenging hikes for caches too. I like 'em all, and the ones I don't want to do, I simply DON'T DO!

 

I've never understood people who complain about micro's, especially in their find logs. No one made you go look for it but you. You were the driver of the vehicle, you chose to enter the coords into your gps, and you are the one who chose to search for it. If you don't want to look for a micro, then look at listed size of the cache first.

 

Now before someone jumps on me since I've freely admitted to having placed guardrail and lightpole caches, it's all been worth it. There is a cacher in my area that has a medical condition that prevents her from going on hikes a lot. On her good days she'll hike, on the bad days when she can't walk so much, she'll do the lightpole caches to get her caching fix. That has made it all worth it.

 

Not everyone likes the same type of cache or size of cache. I personally enjoy them all. Use the tools that are available and filter out what you don't want to look for. It's really that simple.

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OK, let's make this simple for everyone.

 

Micros are placed in urban, rural and wooded areas. Nothing is going to change that.

 

Larger hides are here. Not all, but many if not most do not follow proper trade etiquette.

 

Both have similar percentages of lame hides.

 

Both have similar percentages of WOW! type hides.

 

Neither cache size is going away nor will you be able to control the abuses or mis-uses of these or any other size or type of cache beyond what is already done through the guidelines.

 

No one wants more rule.

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