Your Opinion Please

[+Cuties_in_IL]

This weekend we went out caching. One of the last cache sites we visited we found used toilet paper near the cache location. At that time we figured it was a muggle that picked the wrong spot to do their business and then had the balls to leave their trash out in the woods.

Well, when we got home we logged our finds and realized that there was a DNF posted to the cache. We contacted the cacher, maybe they needed a helpful hint or something. They mentioned that they were looking for it an hour before we got to it. Which means........that was a cacher that left trash out in the woods!!! Plus, they did their business right by a cache location!!! That is sooooo not right!!! Would you mention to the cacher that you seen this and ask them not to do that again.....or do you just let it go cause it is an embarrasing subject?

This cacher is also new to the sport.

Edited October 17, 2006 by Cuties_in_IL

[+Stunod]

Wow, you paint them guilty on very little evidence...

[+Cuties_in_IL]

Okay, you are right....very little evidence that they did it. It could have been one of the hunters out in the park as well. I guess I thought about it to much .... but trashing out our parks ticks me off and to think a fellow cacher might have been the one was just hurtfull.

[+Renegade Knight]

Cachers are easy to blame. We write logs and have caches to mark where we have been and when. It's easy to point at these things and assume that something was done by the cacher just because there is evidence of them being in the vicinity.

 

However if anything I'd say we are less likely as a group to do harm to our world or take a dump by a cache than others. Remember, you too were by that cache around the time of the alleged dump.

 

Lastly, I like your attitude. With more poeple exerting more pressure on the morons who do, do things that do harm our world and cause activities to be banned maybe we can make some headway.

[+Bad_CRC]

someone left a USED diaper on the ground right next to a cache we went to.

 

pretty tough not to blame a cacher for that one.

[+MissJenn]

I've searched such wide areas for many caches - reception is poor, coords are not exactly right on the money, I am just blind some days, what have you: Ground Zero is almost never a pinpoint but rather an area. Most of us have done this.

 

So, I'm gonna say that most of us know better than to answer nature's call too close to a cache. I have a feeing, though, that there are those who think #1 is OK , just not #2.

On this note, I recently unearthed one of my favorite books. I started re-reading it again, and I'd like to recommend this great book to other geocachers. (This link is to the book's publisher, Ten Speed Press.) The author, Kathleen Meyer, was (is?) a professional river guide for many years, and had the wherewithall to write such a necessary book! Her concerns for Mother Nature, issues of practicality, important considerations for hygiene and her good humor combined to make a very educational and entertaining read. Check it out!

 

From the back of the book:

Written with an effervescent sense of humor, this is a book for anyone who wants to enjoy the outdoors responsibly.

That should be all of us.

 

edit for formatting

Edited October 19, 2006 by MissJenn

[+Criminal]

.... but trashing out our parks ticks me off and to think a fellow cacher might have been the one was just hurtfull.

I think I see the flaw in your thinking.

[+Cuties_in_IL]

My flaw in thinking? I can tell you what my flaw is....I think that everyone should know better than to throw trash on the ground. But I know I am wrong. Some don't know better and even more people don't even care. Some people know better but they don't come prepared. Really, who wants to stuff their used TP in their pocket and carry it back to the car with them?

 

Pretty much all cachers learn by experience on what they should and should not bring with them on caching trips/hikes. I don't even think we brought TP out in the woods with us the first time we went caching. Just a GPS & not enough water.

 

As we have experienced more, we learn more. Our caching trips are more planned out now than they were when we first started. And so is the contents of our backpacks. Now I take ziploc bags out with us to discard of the TP.

 

Hopefully this cacher will learn the same way. If not, then I have already decided we are going to make sure we have enough CITO bags packed in the backpack. Oh and a pair of disposable gloves for the used TP or diapers. (Thanks for the heads up on that experience)

 

No need to pick my brain apart. I am done with this subject.

[+Criminal]

My flaw in thinking? I can tell you what my flaw is....I think that everyone should know better than to throw trash on the ground. But I know I am wrong. Some don't know better and even more people don't even care. Some people know better but they don't come prepared. Really, who wants to stuff their used TP in their pocket and carry it back to the car with them?

 

Pretty much all cachers learn by experience on what they should and should not bring with them on caching trips/hikes. I don't even think we brought TP out in the woods with us the first time we went caching. Just a GPS & not enough water.

 

As we have experienced more, we learn more. Our caching trips are more planned out now than they were when we first started. And so is the contents of our backpacks. Now I take ziploc bags out with us to discard of the TP.

 

Hopefully this cacher will learn the same way. If not, then I have already decided we are going to make sure we have enough CITO bags packed in the backpack. Oh and a pair of disposable gloves for the used TP or diapers. (Thanks for the heads up on that experience)

 

No need to pick my brain apart. I am done with this subject.

I’m stunned that you stood idly by while another geocacher crapped in the woods and left their TP. You must have seen them if you are so sure it was a geocacher.

 

Ironically, the features that make a good hide place for a geocache are also a good place for a geo-toilet.

[+...The Girl]

If you have questions about leaving no trace ... check out this website.

[+Cuties_in_IL]

If you have questions about leaving no trace ... check out this website.

 

 

Great info there....thank you for sharing.

[+Isonzo Karst]

When we first started caching we saw a lot of latrine hides....bits of user trail back into some cover in the woods around the edges of parks. Those trails exist in the first place because of people seeking a place to "go". Then some dumb-bunny cacher notices the trail and puts a cache there.

 

I don't see so much of this anymore, but I also don't cache in suburban or urban parks either.

[+tumnus777]

ewwww

[+Renegade Knight]

If you have questions about leaving no trace ... check out this website.

 

 

Great info there....thank you for sharing.

If you dig deeper the LNT folks admit that what they reccomend for dealing with fecal matter is not the best method. It's what is palitable to most of us.

[+ibycus]

I have to admit, I'm a little confused by all the concern over 'human waste'. What makes our poo and pee so much worse than an animal's? T.P? Sure not a good thing, but the actual wastes?

 

Sure its gross finding a pile of human poop in the bushes (and I've found my fair share, in somewhat... unlikely locations, having a dog that loves to eat human plop) but environmentally, I don't see how it can be any worse than any other number of types animal waste out there.

[+welch]

I have to admit, I'm a little confused by all the concern over 'human waste'. What makes our poo and pee so much worse than an animal's? T.P? Sure not a good thing, but the actual wastes?

 

Sure its gross finding a pile of human poop in the bushes (and I've found my fair share, in somewhat... unlikely locations, having a dog that loves to eat human plop) but environmentally, I don't see how it can be any worse than any other number of types animal waste out there.

 

Waste can pollution water sources and spread diseases.

It may not be 'worse' than other animals, but why add to it? Especially when people are supposed to be smarter than most animals .

[+ibycus]

I have to admit, I'm a little confused by all the concern over 'human waste'. What makes our poo and pee so much worse than an animal's? T.P? Sure not a good thing, but the actual wastes?

 

Sure its gross finding a pile of human poop in the bushes (and I've found my fair share, in somewhat... unlikely locations, having a dog that loves to eat human plop) but environmentally, I don't see how it can be any worse than any other number of types animal waste out there.

 

Waste can pollution water sources and spread diseases.

It may not be 'worse' than other animals, but why add to it? Especially when people are supposed to be smarter than most animals .

 

Do you think any human addition will be significant (in most areas). If we're talking a high density of people, maybe, (like a city park) or maybe a low animal life (like a desert) but I for one don't often poop in city parks . As far as desert goes, I honestly don't have any experience with desert conditions, so I wouldn't know.

 

I'm reminded of a case not too long ago when I came across some wild stawberries in the local dog park. The dog was loving them, but I called him away. When he was willing to go, he lifted a leg, and 'marked' his place. A few minutes later we were passing by the same place, and I saw a woman picking them to take home with her .... Sometimes ignorance is bliss .

 

What I mean is, I'm sure other dogs had peed on those bushes before, and I'm sure people have eaten the berries right off the plant before, without getting even remotely sick from it, but if you knew, would you pick berries there?

 

Animals will frequently pee and poop directly *in* the water source (to heck with a few meters away), fish obviously have no choice. This has been going on for millions of years. I'm tempted to say, its our delicate sensibilities that are offended, more than any real biological threat. (obviously the same argument doesn't apply to high density/high use areas, the grass in my back yard has seen better days, and its mostly the fault of the dogs peeing there every morning.... somehow though, the strawberries have never grown better )

[+welch]

I have to admit, I'm a little confused by all the concern over 'human waste'. What makes our poo and pee so much worse than an animal's? T.P? Sure not a good thing, but the actual wastes?

 

Sure its gross finding a pile of human poop in the bushes (and I've found my fair share, in somewhat... unlikely locations, having a dog that loves to eat human plop) but environmentally, I don't see how it can be any worse than any other number of types animal waste out there.

 

Waste can pollution water sources and spread diseases.

It may not be 'worse' than other animals, but why add to it? Especially when people are supposed to be smarter than most animals .

 

Do you think any human addition will be significant (in most areas). If we're talking a high density of people, maybe, (like a city park) or maybe a low animal life (like a desert) but I for one don't often poop in city parks . As far as desert goes, I honestly don't have any experience with desert conditions, so I wouldn't know.

 

I'm reminded of a case not too long ago when I came across some wild stawberries in the local dog park. The dog was loving them, but I called him away. When he was willing to go, he lifted a leg, and 'marked' his place. A few minutes later we were passing by the same place, and I saw a woman picking them to take home with her .... Sometimes ignorance is bliss .

 

What I mean is, I'm sure other dogs had peed on those bushes before, and I'm sure people have eaten the berries right off the plant before, without getting even remotely sick from it, but if you knew, would you pick berries there?

 

Animals will frequently pee and poop directly *in* the water source (to heck with a few meters away), fish obviously have no choice. This has been going on for millions of years. I'm tempted to say, its our delicate sensibilities that are offended, more than any real biological threat. (obviously the same argument doesn't apply to high density/high use areas, the grass in my back yard has seen better days, and its mostly the fault of the dogs peeing there every morning.... somehow though, the strawberries have never grown better )

 

Each additional poo is another potential source for water contamination and/or spreading of disease.

If I can poop in the woods, why not the city park too?

 

Would I eat your strawberries, probably not. However if one had to pick, urine would be preferred to dog logs. Feces is loaded with bacteria, while urine is largely water, salts, and some uric acid & ammonia. Also, I don't see any way you could know with certainty that people eating those berries got sick or not.

 

If you want to drink directly out of the stream, go for it. But eventually you'll get something out of there besides thirst you don't want. Also, next time your at you local library please see if they have this book. That way you'll at least dig your catholes in the better spots .

[+MissJenn]

Also, next time your at you local library please see if they have this book. That way you'll at least dig your catholes in the better spots .

That the exact same book I pointed to above in a post from a short while ago.

I love that book.

[+ibycus]

Each additional poo is another potential source for water contamination and/or spreading of disease.

If I can poop in the woods, why not the city park too?

 

It also returns nutrients to the soil. Its all a mater of density.

 

Would I eat your strawberries, probably not. However if one had to pick, urine would be preferred to dog logs. Feces is loaded with bacteria, while urine is largely water, salts, and some uric acid & ammonia. Also, I don't see any way you could know with certainty that people eating those berries got sick or not.

 

Depends on the urine, and the feces. There are plenty of bacteria that can live in urine (I'm working with one right now in my cell biology lab). Then there are plenty of benign (and not so benign) bacteria that live just about everywhere. In theory, I suppose you might actually be inhibiting the growth of some nasties, by adding feces (by changing pH or salt or whatever). Anyone know anything about the chemical properties of your average dump?

 

If you want to drink directly out of the stream, go for it. But eventually you'll get something out of there besides thirst you don't want. Also, next time your at you local library please see if they have this book. That way you'll at least dig your catholes in the better spots .

 

Pretty sure I'd be more likely to drink from water I brought in, if at all possible. If not, I'd be set up to take a reasonable crack at sterilizing what is there.

[+Muddy Chris]

Leave nothing (except well placed footprints), take nothing (except pictures and trash.)

 

Pretty safe to assume then that approach doesn't cause more impact than necessary. We can make exceptions to the rule all day long if we like ... just means were lazy. It's neither easy nor fun to carry out our waste ... but we should. All of it.

 

Chris

Edited February 9, 2007 by Muddy Chris

[+ibycus]

Leave nothing (except well placed footprints), take nothing (except pictures and trash.)

 

Pretty safe to assume then that approach doesn't cause more impact than necessary. We can make exceptions to the rule all day long if we like ... just means were lazy. It's neither easy nor fun to carry out our waste ... but we should. All of it.

 

Chris

 

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Really. You really think we should be peeing in to bottles, and carrying out feces in plastic baggies?

 

Should the deer, bears, coyotes, etc. start doing the same thing?

 

Obviously don't take a dump mid-trail. Go off somewhere reasonably private if you have to. Other than that, I don't have a problem.

[+welch]

Its my birthday and I'll Poo if I want to

Edited February 12, 2007 by welch

[+Muddy Chris]

Leave nothing (except well placed footprints), take nothing (except pictures and trash.)

 

Pretty safe to assume then that approach doesn't cause more impact than necessary. We can make exceptions to the rule all day long if we like ... just means were lazy. It's neither easy nor fun to carry out our waste ... but we should. All of it.

 

Chris

 

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Really. You really think we should be peeing in to bottles, and carrying out feces in plastic baggies?

 

Should the deer, bears, coyotes, etc. start doing the same thing?

 

Obviously don't take a dump mid-trail. Go off somewhere reasonably private if you have to. Other than that, I don't have a problem.

 

Yup, that is exactly what i'm saying. Not that we necessarily will do it, but that we should. We are not naturally placed here like deer and bear ... we have invaded this land, it it will only take care of us as long as we take care of it. We are stupid to think otherwise and eventually it will be our ruin. Be that as it may, I say we should do our best to take nothing/leave nothing just like I already mentioned ... if we don't it just means we are lazy.

 

Chris

[+ReadyOrNot]

We have invaded this land

 

What, what what?!?! I agree that a big pile of poo sitting next to the cache is a bit on the disgusting side. And there's quite a bit of difference between a deer poop and a human poop (I won't go into details, most everyone is aware of the differences)... But I think as long as you try to find a good spot to go, wipe with some leaves or something, it's not a big deal. Although my brother wiped with poison oak one time, but that's a different story.

 

What do you mean we invaded this land? This land is your land, this land is my land. Not sure if I'm ready to relinquish control to a fuzzy critter quite yet.

[+Muddy Chris]

We have invaded this land

What do you mean we invaded this land? This land is your land, this land is my land. Not sure if I'm ready to relinquish control to a fuzzy critter quite yet.

 

We don't have to relinquish control, time will take care of that for us. This land is your land, this land is my land .... for the last few thousand years anyway. All I'm really saying is we should impact the place as little as possible if we want this earth to continue to take care of us. Agree to disagree

 

Chris

Edited February 13, 2007 by Muddy Chris

[+ReadyOrNot]

We have invaded this land

What do you mean we invaded this land? This land is your land, this land is my land. Not sure if I'm ready to relinquish control to a fuzzy critter quite yet.

 

We don't have to relinquish control, time will take care of that for us. This land is your land, this land is my land .... for the last few thousand years anyway. All I'm really saying is we should impact the place as little as possible if we want this earth to continue to take care of us. Agree to disagree

 

Chris

 

Not sure that we are disagreeing. I just don't view my presence on this planet as an invasion

[+TrailGators]

I would be surprised that a geocacher would poop so close to the coords of a cache. Seems like a geocacher would know that others would be walking around in that area in the near future.

Edited February 13, 2007 by TrailGators

[+ibycus]

I'm sorry, I'm not buying it. Really. You really think we should be peeing in to bottles, and carrying out feces in plastic baggies?

 

Yup, that is exactly what i'm saying. Not that we necessarily will do it, but that we should. We are not naturally placed here like deer and bear ... we have invaded this land, it it will only take care of us as long as we take care of it. We are stupid to think otherwise and eventually it will be our ruin. Be that as it may, I say we should do our best to take nothing/leave nothing just like I already mentioned ... if we don't it just means we are lazy.

 

Chris

 

So... do you practice what you preach? If nature calls, and your in the woods, do you go in a bottle?

 

So what's so different between human pee and bear pee? The only possible difference I can think of is density. Our population density is much higher than most animal populations, which is why we have to take special sanitation measures in the first place (i.e. why we don't just poop in the street), but once the density of population in an area drops enough, the impact is no more than that of the animal population in the area.

[+Muddy Chris]

Be that as it may, I say we should do our best to take nothing/leave nothing just like I already mentioned ... if we don't it just means we are lazy.

 

Chris

 

So... do you practice what you preach? If nature calls, and your in the woods, do you go in a bottle?

 

So what's so different between human pee and bear pee? The only possible difference I can think of is density. Our population density is much higher than most animal populations, which is why we have to take special sanitation measures in the first place (i.e. why we don't just poop in the street), but once the density of population in an area drops enough, the impact is no more than that of the animal population in the area.

 

Yes .... I practice what I preach (though I bolded relevant text in my quote.) Poop goes in a "burrito bag" (you can look it up on-line or I can explain it to you if you like) and, dependant on the sensitivity of the area I am in, I only urinate if I cant wait or get to a restroom or don't have a bottle (20 or 32 oz. gatorade bottles with the wide opening work best.) I don't consider any of this extreme, I consider it responsible and it offsets the actions of those that don't give a crap about the world in which they live.

 

I also go running around picking up trash and removing spray paint graffiti ... would anyone care to make fun of that, too please? Have a nice day and feel comfortable in the fact that you will never have to fret about running across my excrement in the woods.

 

Chris

 

- edit to add this smiley. I didn't mean to seem rude as I understand your opinion too.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Muddy Chris

[+Bill Kettler]

We fully understand and posted this as our opinion to it all

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=157088

[vtmtnman]

LOL....

 

If you're in a public park ...use some common sense.

 

If you're in the woods...walk FAR away from the cache and let er' fly.

 

It's not rocket science.Humans have been doing their business in the woods since creation.Scratch a hole in the dirt,poop,use leaves,bury it,and be on your way.This enviromental sensitivity stuff is hilarious sometimes.

 

It's poop,not nuclear waste.

 

we have invaded this land

 

LOL...humans are animals too,not aliens(But that's in another debate in another forum).

Edited April 9, 2007 by vtmtnman

[erduggan]

While I certainly don't encourage leaving piles of human excrement, in most regions (not desert or high elevation, though) it will break down quite fast. Toilet paper is a different story, and I have seen altogether too many trails that are positively littered with the stuff. TP should certainly be carried out in a baggie or (if conditions are such that there's no chance of starting a fire) carefully burned. It is very slow to break down on the surface, and doesn't do at all well buried, either.

 

I do trail maintenance as a volunteer and the number one litter type are candy wrapper fragments. Number two is TP, number three cigarette butts. The oddest item of "litter" I have seen was a virtually brand-new folding chair, the kind with a beer holder in the arm and a NASCAR emblem (I am not making this up ) that I found in a col on a fairly demanding trail. I couldn't carry it out, but a friend was leading a hike through that location the following day. I alerted her and one of her party took it gladly, though how he managed on the couple of tricky rock walls on this trail I have NO idea.

 

Ted.