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What areas are off limits for placing a cache?


4 Walls

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There seems to be a wide variety of opinions on what kind of locations are ok to place caches in/on. Tell us what locations do feel are off limit without express permission of a person having the authority to give permission.

 

Don't forget to explain your reasons...........

 

Dan

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There seems to be a wide variety of opinions on what kind of locations are ok to place caches in/on. Tell us what locations do feel are off limit without express permission of a person having the authority to give permission.

 

Don't forget to explain your reasons...........

 

Dan

 

According to GC.com, you need "express permission" to place a cache.

 

Period.

 

 

(this doesn't seem to happen all the time though)

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...According to GC.com, you need "express permission" to place a cache....

 

That must be new. I had thought you needed adequate permission.

 

To answer the OP.

 

Any high risk terrorist target is a bad place to put a cache even if the owner or the person with authority says "sure no problem, ya want that in writring so you can show express permission?"

 

Any place that seekers will damage while looking for a cache. Don't place a hard find in a flower bed. Retaining walls suck. Finders can't put the bricks back right, then they look like crap and are never the same.

 

If it's not a high risk terrorist target but a bomb squad being called in will cause public disruption it's a bad spot for a cache. Any area with a high concentration of muggles especially kids is a bad spot. However the right kind of cache can make the possibility of being called in by an accidental finder very small. Any place the cache is likely to be found by muggles is a bad spot. However 10' over may be fine in this regard.

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...where do you think it's ok to place a cache without permission?

 

Without express permission? Anywhere where I won't mind talking to the owner about the cache being there even if they didn't know about it before.

 

That's just stupid. Apparently you don't live in an area where someone might take a shotgun to your abdomen while placing a cache on their property "even if they didn't know about it"...

 

????

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Without express permission? Anywhere where I won't mind talking to the owner about the cache being there even if they didn't know about it before.

 

huh?

 

I don't understand what that means. You would put a cache on private property without asking the owner?

It means I'm willing to place a cache where I would not mind getting a phone call from the land owner, land manager or any one else about that cache.

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I think everyone who has answered to this point shares pretty much the same opinion as me. Permmission is required for all private property. But I have seen time and time again caches being placed on private property and I have been unable to determine if permission has been granted. Also as stated on the http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#offlimit page

But this seems widely disregarded.

 

Dan

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...where do you think it's ok to place a cache without permission?

 

Without express permission? Anywhere where I won't mind talking to the owner about the cache being there even if they didn't know about it before.

 

That's just stupid. Apparently you don't live in an area where someone might take a shotgun to your abdomen while placing a cache on their property "even if they didn't know about it"...

 

????

I live in an area where someone might take a shotgun to me for being on "Their land" when it's BLM land for miles around. The BLM allows geocaching as an acceptable casual use of their lands. I talked to them a few weeks ago about caching in my area.

 

Further if the property isn't marked, is used by sportsman, cavers, hikers, and looks like and smells like public land for all intents and purposes it's public land. If I get that call I'm more than willing to talk to the owner.

 

Paranoid folks who threaten people with shotguns do tend to mark their property. I also live in the west and things are a bit more open around here. Maybe you are from the east where there is less elbow room?

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I think everyone who has answered to this point shares pretty much the same opinion as me. Permmission is required for all private property. But I have seen time and time again caches being placed on private property and I have been unable to determine if permission has been granted. Also as stated on the http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#offlimit page

But this seems widely disregarded.

 

Dan

Your job is to decide to seek the cache or walk away. I've walked a way, I've also driven miles on back roads then found a piece of paper face down in the mud "if you can read this you have been trespessing for a long ways. Threats followed on the paper, I turned back. Much later I found the right access and it was easy. (Not true the Army Corps blocked cars from that access and we had to hike but that's another thing).

 

Some of the Off limits are subject to intrepretation, others you can't know until after you placed the cache. When I spoke with the BLM we specificaly went over how they deal with Archaeological sites.

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Maybe you are from the east where there is less elbow room?

 

Not even close.

 

I live in northern Idaho (Idaho has 22 million acres of BLM land by the way) and have been in contact with the local Forest Service Ranger (who I've known for years) trying to figure out a way to keep Geocaching going in the Forest (they don't like it, I've been trying to convince them otherwise).

 

Elbow room? No. I have plenty.

 

I just don't agree with the current GC.com mentality that it's OK to put a chache anywhere that a person thinks they won't get "busted" for it. Caches placed in parking lots regardless of "good intentions" get on my nerves.

 

I pay taxes for public land, as well as my own land, and times are a changin. GC.com putting it's collective head in the sand when it comes to "permission" will be it's downfall.

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I think everyone who has answered to this point shares pretty much the same opinion as me. Permmission is required for all private property. But I have seen time and time again caches being placed on private property and I have been unable to determine if permission has been granted. Also as stated on the http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#offlimit page

But this seems widely disregarded.

 

Dan

Your job is to decide to seek the cache or walk away. I've walked a way, I've also driven miles on back roads then found a piece of paper face down in the mud "if you can read this you have been trespessing for a long ways. Threats followed on the paper, I turned back. Much later I found the right access and it was easy. (Not true the Army Corps blocked cars from that access and we had to hike but that's another thing).

 

Some of the Off limits are subject to intrepretation, others you can't know until after you placed the cache. When I spoke with the BLM we specificaly went over how they deal with Archaeological sites.

 

Your job is to know before you place a cache and it is the seekers responsibility to know before they look. Its a two-way street. It is irresponsible to place caches and then expect to find out after the fact if it was a legitimate placement or not.

 

Just because there is no sign does not mean you are not trespassing.

 

This type of irresponsible cache placement will cause restriction after restriction to be placed on caching and will ultimately help lead to the end of geocaching and all that will be left will be virtuals.........

 

Dan

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...I live in northern Idaho (Idaho has 22 million acres of BLM land by the way) and have been in contact with the local Forest Service Ranger (who I've known for years) trying to figure out a way to keep Geocaching going in the Forest (they don't like it, I've been trying to convince them otherwise).

 

Elbow room? No. I have plenty.

 

I just don't agree with the current GC.com mentality that it's OK to put a chache anywhere that a person thinks they won't get "busted" for it. Caches placed in parking lots regardless of "good intentions" get on my nerves.

 

I pay taxes for public land, as well as my own land, and times are a changin. GC.com putting it's collective head in the sand when it comes to "permission" will be it's downfall.

 

With your attitude, I'd really rather you stayed away from talking to the forest service. You don't post like you actually have a feel for what caching truly is. There are a lot of able cachers in your part of the state who would do a far better job. Your bias will reinforce your friends bias.

 

Unless you have a hidden account with hundreds more finds, you are wet behind the ears and biased belond belief. If you did have this experience you would have a lot better idea about why people place caches. Why they place them sets where they place them. I've never seen a single cache placed because "they won't get busted".

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...Just because there is no sign does not mean you are not trespassing....

 

I took a hunter safety course not so long ago. They had good advice on when to ask to be on land. Specificly posted and cultivated are the lands you need to seek permission to be on. Naturally hunters don't hunt in urban areas. Overall though it's good advice when in a non urban area.

 

You are confusing tresspassing with private property. If the land accomodates the public you are not tresspassing. Public accomodation means the public is invited. If you are asked to leave, then you are trespassing but not until then.

 

You are making up too many things and posting as if they are law, and posting too may of your own personal rules as if they are enforcable in court.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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With your attitude, I'd really rather you stayed away from talking to the forest service. You don't post like you actually have a feel for what caching truly is. There are a lot of able cachers in your part of the state who would do a far better job. Your bias will reinforce your friends bias.

 

Unless you have a hidden account with hundreds more finds, you are wet behind the ears and biased belond belief. If you did have this experience you would have a lot better idea about why people place caches. Why they place them sets where they place them. I've never seen a single cache placed because "they won't get busted".

 

But that's the attitude I'm getting from you.

 

You're judging me the same way you're accusing me of judging you and your geocaching.

 

I'm not going to bother explaining myself to you and you can make your own mind up on what my "feel for caching truly is".

 

Thank you for pointing out the other cachers in my "part of the state" who could do a better job - a few of them are my sponsors on another site with a better history that yours.

 

Sorry that I came across as irritating to you. But my main argument stands: There's no excuse for placing 'caches "just because we think we can".

 

later.

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Areas that are almost ALWAYS off limits:

 

1. National Parks

2. National Rec Areas administered by the NPS (Dept of the Interior)

3. National Wildlife Refuges

 

The US Army Corp of Enginners permits caches provided a permit is obtained first.

 

The US Bureau of Land Management (BLM) Public Lands allow geocaching.

 

Just about everthing else varies from place to place, including National Forests, State Forests, State Parks, County Parks, City Parks... etc etc etc

Edited by Right Wing Wacko
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Keystone posted this about permission.

 

Permission is not "express" but "adequate". And that's the cacher's call, unless the reviewer has to cause to become concerned about the placement.

 

If you're placing a cache in Florida, you might check out my profile which will provide you with various public policy info about geocaching. If you post a cache to one of those places, I'm gonna ask you if you've met their requirements (permission). Some other reviewers have similar profile pages. My favorite is Prime Reviewer's.

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But that's the attitude I'm getting from you.

 

You're judging me the same way you're accusing me of judging you and your geocaching.

 

I'm not going to bother explaining myself to you and you can make your own mind up on what my "feel for caching truly is".

 

Thank you for pointing out the other cachers in my "part of the state" who could do a better job - a few of them are my sponsors on another site with a better history that yours.

 

Sorry that I came across as irritating to you. But my main argument stands: There's no excuse for placing 'caches "just because we think we can".

 

later.

Do me a favor and reread your posts to this thread. From your first one, I had two perceptions of you. First, that you had an agenda. You share that agenda with others, but it is still irritating. A quick search of the forums will find many threads in which this issue has been discussed at leagth. Second, you were willing to twist statements to support your agenda. Take a look at your first post which I've included below. Even though most participants on this forum know what GC.com's position on permission is (from reading the guidelines and the previous threads on this subject), you chose to distort it.

According to GC.com, you need "express permission" to place a cache.

 

Period.

 

 

(this doesn't seem to happen all the time though)

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There seems to be a wide variety of opinions on what kind of locations are ok to place caches in/on. Tell us what locations do feel are off limit without express permission of a person having the authority to give permission.

 

Don't forget to explain your reasons...........

 

Dan

Locations:

  • [*The cache is not in a park or other area where the land manager has banned geocaching, such as US National Parks and US National Wildlife Refuges.
  • The cache is not buried.
  • The cache is not near a sensitive archaelogical or historic site.
  • The cache is not placed in a railroad right of way (150 feet "safety zone")
  • The cache is not placed on or near a military installation.
  • The cache is not placed near or under a public structure deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks, including but not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports.
  • If the cache is placed on private property, the cache page states that permission from the owner has been obtained.
  • If the cache is placed in a park or other area where the land manager has established a permit system for geocaches, the cache page states that the permit has been obtained.
  • The cache doesn't require going into a commercial business, buying a product, paying an entrance fee, etc., so that it would be "commercial" in nature (intentionally or not).

Reason:

 

The Listing Guidelines.

 

'Nuff said.

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If you are asked to leave, then you are trespassing but not until then.

 

Not in Wisconsin, if you are on private land without permission you are trespassing, no need for signs, paint marks, or fences. If you cause damage you are liable, if you trip over something and break your arm it is your problem. The only requirement is that the landowner not set traps with the intent to injure.

It is up to you to know were you are, not up to the land owner to have to tell you. And that is the way it should be.

http://www.aae.wisc.edu/aae336/Readings/TRESPASS.pdf

_____________

Andre' B.

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If you are asked to leave, then you are trespassing but not until then.
Not in Wisconsin, if you are on private land without permission you are trespassing, no need for signs, paint marks, or fences. If you cause damage you are liable, if you trip over something and break your arm it is your problem. The only requirement is that the landowner not set traps with the intent to injure.

It is up to you to know were you are, not up to the land owner to have to tell you. And that is the way it should be.

http://www.aae.wisc.edu/aae336/Readings/TRESPASS.pdf

_____________

Andre' B.

RK was discussing 'public accomodation' areas, such as parking lots.

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But that's the attitude I'm getting from you.

 

You're judging me the same way you're accusing me of judging you and your geocaching.

 

I'm not going to bother explaining myself to you and you can make your own mind up on what my "feel for caching truly is".

 

Thank you for pointing out the other cachers in my "part of the state" who could do a better job - a few of them are my sponsors on another site with a better history that yours.

 

Sorry that I came across as irritating to you. But my main argument stands: There's no excuse for placing 'caches "just because we think we can".

 

later.

This was from 2003, little has changed. Somebody new comes along and tries to change the game.

 

Permission has reared its ugly head again and another new cacher has decided he/she has a better way of playing the game. I’ve started a new thread because I will cover this so thoroughly that it will appear, at times, to be off topic.

 

This is what I learned in the Air Force: There are two types of people in the AF (and the world in general). The first believes they can do nothing without explicit permission. They will not act unless they know factually that the act is an approved act. If they have the slightest doubt, they will find someone to ask for permission. The second type of person believes they can do anything unless they are aware of a prohibition specifically against the act. They see the lack of prohibition as implicit permission.

 

The difference between the two is all about freedom. Before I discuss freedom, let me first explain the severe danger of asking permission. People, in general terms, like to avoid conflict, they like their jobs and their lives to be as simple and trouble free as possible. They want routine. They don’t want some anal retentive worry wart to come along and start making demands for permission or authorization to do something they never heard of. So there you go, feeling warm and smug, asking Joe Flunky park employee if you can hide a geocache in a park over which he has some degree of authority. He’s never heard of it, can’t understand even the most eloquent explanation you offer, and will become annoyed. Why? Because you’ve just destroyed his whole sense of routine. Now he has to go find information about an activity he doesn’t comprehend. He knows that if he asks his boss, he’ll sound like a stuttering idiot trying to explain it. What will he do? He will deny your request, because that’s the easiest way to get back to his routine while exposing him to no risk. Before you asked, you had implicit permission at least, and deniability nonetheless. Now you have been specifically prohibited and have effectively given away some of your freedom. Unfortunately, there are any number of whiners and pantywastes who find it impossible to enjoy such a “rouge” game and try to change the game to suite them, instead of changing their own philosophy to agree with the game.

 

And that’s what it’s all about, freedom. I gave 20 years for it, some gave nothing, and others gave everything they could. You didn’t get your freedom from the constitution; rather, that document merely affirms your freedom. If you can’t understand the difference, I’m sorry, I don’t have the time or space here to educate you. Why do you obey laws? Really, ask yourself why you obey the laws? If your answer is, “to avoid punishment” you are not free. You are a slave to the law and slaves are not free. Ask me why I obey laws and I’ll tell you it’s because I believe in the limits imposed to ensure a civilized society. Now here’s the catch, I reserve the right to disobey any law at my whim. Don’t be shocked, because therein lies my freedom; I could break the law, but I have made the free will decision not to. I know how to pick locks, I am comfortable moving about in the dark without external lighting and can do so almost without making a sound, I have knowledge of how certain equipment works and how to circumvent its intent. I choose not to.

 

Sadly, freedom is an addictive drug. I will, without fail, fight tooth and nail against anyone who tries to take even the most miniscule portion of my freedom from me. It’s a very insidious disease. It never strike catastrophically, rather, it sneaks in a little at a time. I don’t and won’t ask permission unless I am aware of a prohibition. I refuse to surrender any of my freedom. Guess what? This philosophy is in full compliance with the guidelines of this site! You are fully expected to obtain permission wherever permission is required. So to the person (now and later) who thinks geocaching.com should require a lengthy procedure to ensure permission is granted before approving a cache, F you. Shut up and enjoy the game. If you cannot enjoy the game, play something else.

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a few of them are my sponsors on another site with a better history that yours.

Would that "other site" you allude to begin with a "T"? After I joined TC, I looked for their guidelines/rules/etc, and all I could find was this statement from a person named LowRacer:

 

"I'm often asked these kinds of questions when someone on my downline wants to post a new cache:

 

...closer than 528 feet? ...virtual at a 9/11 monument ...locationless? ...temporary? ...vacation? ...an event cache where we won't be talking about geocaching? ...secret code word instead of a logbook? ...the finders have to find it 'au naturel?'

 

My answer to these and many other such questions is YES, it's OK.

Forget what you learned about arbitrary cache placement guidelines on other sites (especially geocaching.com).

 

Personally, my two rules for approving (and other sponsors may differ here) are:

 

Are you sure it won't cause any problems with "The Law?"

 

Is it only listed here on TC.com?"

 

The way I interpret that is, any cache that is not a violation of law is OK. If those pesky GC guidelines won't let you hide a cache under an Interstate bridge, no problem, go list it on your "other" site. If those pesky GC guidelines won't let you hide a cache outside a federal courthouse, no problem, go list it on your "other" site. If those pesky GC guidelines won't let you hide a cache on a piece of public land where "geo"caches are forbidden, no problem, go list it on your "other" site. This somehow positively impacts caching overall? I'm thankful we have our guidelines, and I strongly disagree with the TC view that they are "arbitrary". I see the GC guidelines as being the one thing that might save caching for future generations. Most orginizations learn that if they don't police themselves, someone else will police them. I guess TC hasn't gotten that particular memo yet. GC has guidelines designed to protect our favorite hobby, TC has none, yet you believe the TC method is better?

 

Of course, if you're not refering to Terracaching, then my whole rant has been wasted. I made that assumption based upon not knowing any other cache listing sites which required "sponsors", and the fact that their is a conradv from Clark Fork, ID listed there, who uses the same avatar picture as you.

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If you are asked to leave, then you are trespassing but not until then.

 

Not in Wisconsin, if you are on private land without permission you are trespassing, no need for signs, paint marks, or fences. If you cause damage you are liable, if you trip over something and break your arm it is your problem. The only requirement is that the landowner not set traps with the intent to injure.

It is up to you to know were you are, not up to the land owner to have to tell you. And that is the way it should be.

http://www.aae.wisc.edu/aae336/Readings/TRESPASS.pdf

_____________

Andre' B.

 

Permission is assumed and implied in may cases. It would be impossible to do business (BrianSnat's grocery store example) or to get on with life in many cases. Read the law including case law. It would not hurt if everone had to take a class in Business Law.

 

Implied permission is how you can visit your friend, say hello to your neighbors, and how the meter readers can get on your property to do their jobs and a host of other things.

 

This is true even in Wisconsin even with the law you pointed out.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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... my main argument stands: There's no excuse for placing 'caches "just because we think we can".

 

later.

 

Why would we place a cache that we think we can't place? I tend to place caches where I think I can place a cache. So do most people. That's how it's supposed to be.

 

My judgment on your perception of geocaching is based on your conversations in this thread and others. My assessment of your skill level is based on your finds on this site. Better information would lead to a better assessment. My thoughts that you have a bias is based on your posts. My idea that you don't really have enough knowledge of the law and other issues is based on you posting your opinion on the law as a recognized truth when reality is quite to the contrary. There are a thousand interpretations of the finer points of law. It's why we have lawyers. However one heck of a lot of things are very well established and those are where you are perhaps misguided or misinformed, or just don't have the background. My job gives me a lot of experience, a lot of insight, and a lot of access to both policy makers, and land mangers. It also gives me access to experts in wildlife, wetlands, archaeology, historical architecture and other areas. Lastly it also gives me access to essentially all state and Federal Agencies such as the BLM, Forest Service, EPA, State Department of Environmental Quality, Army Corps of Engineers and so on. I may not have direct access to key decision makers in many cases, but I do have access to people who do and who can help, and sometimes best of all give me better information than I have.

 

You don’t irritate me, you just have the ability to do more harm than good for geocaching, though you don’t yet understand why.

 

I would advice you to get on Idahogeocachers and talk about things with other cachers from your area. I've come to respect them quite a bit and they are a close knit group. You will learn a lot. Northern Idaho is some of the prettiest country on gods green earth and it's what I was thinking I would see when I came to Southern Idaho and was surprised by sagebrush.

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Permission is assumed and implied in may cases. It would be impossible to do business (BrianSnat's grocery store example) or to get on with life in many cases. Read the law including case law. It would not hurt if everone had to take a class in Business Law.

 

Implied permission is how you can visit your friend, say hello to your neighbors, and how the meter readers can get on your property to do their jobs and a host of other things.

 

This is true even in Wisconsin even with the law you pointed out.

 

Yes, driving or walking in to what is obviously a driveway to a residence, knocking on a door and leaving as soon as you realize no one is home is one thing.

Lifting trashcan lids, peaking in all the windows you can reach, checking to see if car doors are locked, or stopping on the side of a road and walking across a hay field to check out a tractor rusting away on the tree line are very different. :)

 

My friends know they have permission, most have a key, if their status changes it will be made clear to them.

 

I have no meters to be read, PV a wind generator, and wood heat. Helps that my house is 1/4 mile off the road thru a woods, cannot see it from the road most of the time only in winter and even then only if you are very observant or know where to look, also have a PO Box so no mailbox .

 

Used to get a few teenage couples driving back now and then looking for a private spot, kind of fun watching them turn red when I told them there was a dead end road a mile over just perfect for what they want. Now days I think they just tell the parents not to disturb them for a few hours.

_____________

Andre' B.

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with people who feel they have a right to throw caches on anyone's property anytime they feel like it, I'm darn suprised the hobby has lasted as long as it has.

 

I would think people like that do great harm to geocaching, and risk "ruining it for everyone"

 

 

but what do I know, I'm just a noob.

 

:)

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with people who feel they have a right to throw caches on anyone's property anytime they feel like it, I'm darn suprised the hobby has lasted as long as it has.

 

I would think people like that do great harm to geocaching, and risk "ruining it for everyone"

 

 

but what do I know, I'm just a noob.

 

:)

Property owned by an individual (private property) is an entirely different subject.

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...Lifting trashcan lids, peaking in all the windows you can reach, checking to see if car doors are locked, or stopping on the side of a road and walking across a hay field to check out a tractor rusting away on the tree line are very different. :)...

 

Interesting you use the trashcan example since by law in most locations your trash is public domain. That doesn't legalize sifting through your trash for credit card numbers but it's interesting none the less.

 

As for your friends knowing they have permission, that's a great example of implied permission. You never explicitly told them they did, they just assume it.

 

If you were a collector of rusted tracters (my personal theory on the replacment for wagons in people yards as decoration) and made the farmer an offer odds are he'd forgive you for taking a peak at the tractor. However running acrossthe hayfield to get that peak isn't exactly good practice as it's a cultivated field and the assumption is it's private property and you need to seek permission. Hayfields are not normally places of public accomodation...though they can be.

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with people who feel they have a right to throw caches on anyone's property anytime they feel like it, I'm darn suprised the hobby has lasted as long as it has.

 

I would think people like that do great harm to geocaching, and risk "ruining it for everyone"

 

 

but what do I know, I'm just a noob.

 

:)

 

They belong in the same group as the 4x4 freaks who tear up trails, people who haul their trash out intot he woods and just dump it and so on. Every group has it's morons who will ruin it for all because they were not mistaken for baby seals at birth and clubbed.

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...Lifting trashcan lids, peaking in all the windows you can reach, checking to see if car doors are locked, or stopping on the side of a road and walking across a hay field to check out a tractor rusting away on the tree line are very different. :unsure:...

 

Interesting you use the trashcan example since by law in most locations your trash is public domain. .

 

Keeping the statement about looking trashcans in context, tells me it was not necessarily placed on the curb for collection. It may be on side of the house or garage. If it has not been placed out for collection then you or anyone else has no right to go through it. without a search warrant.

 

If this was not the context intended by the original poster let me know.

 

Dan

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people who haul their trash out intot he woods and just dump it

 

What is with those people? How can people do this?

 

The one that gets me is people who dump christmas trees... it's supposed to be a symbol of good things, but people just throw them on the side of the road or in parks. And in my town there is a place that takes them for free... the people would just have to drive an extra 5 minutes to properly get rid of them.

 

We were at a cache site a few weeks ago, and someone had left a full diaper right next to the cache, (I think it may have been a geocacher) animals had chewed into the 'deposit' and the whole area was one big dump. Someone else left a deer carcass nearby (had been butchered and cleaned). Would take 100 cachers days to clean up the mess, and it would just be filled up again within a week. So hopeless to see all that, and in what could be a beautiful area.

Edited by Bad_CRC
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GCXFWE This cache does not follow the rules of express permission, my wife and I were chased off by security and we called and asked the manager if the cache was ok and he said NO that Walmart would never allow such a thing. and since we posted our log about being chased off, many people have gone, so I guess not too many care about following this rule.

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GCXFWE This cache does not follow the rules of express permission, my wife and I were chased off by security and we called and asked the manager if the cache was ok and he said NO that Walmart would never allow such a thing. and since we posted our log about being chased off, many people have gone, so I guess not too many care about following this rule.

Oddly enough, walmart allows people in RV's to spend the night in their lots. If they had any clue how many were geocachers they would sing a different tune.

 

With a company like WalMart the left hand right hand thing can be an issue. Just because the manager said no doesn't mean the assistant manager didn't say yes, or that the cache wasn't placed by an employee after talking to their much lower level supervisor. Your log was good, it's good information for the cache owner to know they do have a problem to fix.

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Ditto what RK said about left hand, right hand.

 

I recently listed a cache in a state park. Those caches require park manager's permission. The cache had that permission. The first hunters of the cache were approached by a ranger and asked what they were doing - when they explained that they were geocaching, he asked them to leave! They'd paid $4 each to enter the park.

 

They complained to me, to the cache owner and in their log. Can't say as I blame them.

 

The cache owners called the park manager who evidently got the word out to his staff. But too late for those cachers wanting the first to find.

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