Resetting GPSr to look at new WAAS birds

October 27, 2006

Good thread. I just did a hard reset on my Rino 120. Took a couple of tries to find the combo.

Hold the page and 'click stick' buttons down at the same time when powering up, and you'll get the prompt to erase all user settings.

It's sitting outside aquiring sats right now.

October 30, 2006

This is from www.nstb.tc.faa.gov:

New WAAS GEO Status as of 10/30/06

INTELSAT(PanAmSat), Galaxy-15, W133 deg, PRN -135 (48)

PRN-135 is currently in the process of being switched into the operational WAAS.

The current plan is take PRN-135 out of Message Type Zero Test Mode and

place it into normal operation on 11/3/06 about 08:00 UTC.

Once officially operational, PRN-135 status will no longer be provided by this

non-operational web site.

PRN-135 will operate for about the first 6 to 9 months as a data link of correction

and integrity information only. That is, the UDRE will be set to "not monitored".

This will result in it being displayed with a "hollow bar" on some receiver displays.

The ranging control loop for PRN-135 will be running, but the WAAS ground system

will not provide UDREs smaller than Not Monitored until the FAA's verification of

the integrity analyses for the ranging function have been completed as part of the

PRN-138 testing. (Data link only operation allowed the PRN-135 deployment to be

accelerated to compensate for the loss of PRN-122 in the North East)

October 30, 2006

This is from www.nstb.tc.faa.gov:

New WAAS GEO Status as of 10/30/06

INTELSAT(PanAmSat), Galaxy-15, W133 deg, PRN -135 (48)

PRN-135 is currently in the process of being switched into the operational WAAS.

The current plan is take PRN-135 out of Message Type Zero Test Mode and

place it into normal operation on 11/3/06 about 08:00 UTC.

Once officially operational, PRN-135 status will no longer be provided by this

non-operational web site.

PRN-135 will operate for about the first 6 to 9 months as a data link of correction

and integrity information only. That is, the UDRE will be set to "not monitored".

This will result in it being displayed with a "hollow bar" on some receiver displays.

The ranging control loop for PRN-135 will be running, but the WAAS ground system

will not provide UDREs smaller than Not Monitored until the FAA's verification of

the integrity analyses for the ranging function have been completed as part of the

PRN-138 testing. (Data link only operation allowed the PRN-135 deployment to be

accelerated to compensate for the loss of PRN-122 in the North East)

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

November 1, 2006

This is from www.nstb.tc.faa.gov:

New WAAS GEO Status as of 10/30/06

INTELSAT(PanAmSat), Galaxy-15, W133 deg, PRN -135 (48)

PRN-135 is currently in the process of being switched into the operational WAAS.

The current plan is take PRN-135 out of Message Type Zero Test Mode and

place it into normal operation on 11/3/06 about 08:00 UTC.

Once officially operational, PRN-135 status will no longer be provided by this

non-operational web site.

PRN-135 will operate for about the first 6 to 9 months as a data link of correction

and integrity information only. That is, the UDRE will be set to "not monitored".

This will result in it being displayed with a "hollow bar" on some receiver displays.

The ranging control loop for PRN-135 will be running, but the WAAS ground system

will not provide UDREs smaller than Not Monitored until the FAA's verification of

the integrity analyses for the ranging function have been completed as part of the

PRN-138 testing. (Data link only operation allowed the PRN-135 deployment to be

accelerated to compensate for the loss of PRN-122 in the North East)

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

Why worry about it if your gps is working properly?

November 1, 2006

This is from www.nstb.tc.faa.gov:

New WAAS GEO Status as of 10/30/06

INTELSAT(PanAmSat), Galaxy-15, W133 deg, PRN -135 (48)

PRN-135 is currently in the process of being switched into the operational WAAS.

The current plan is take PRN-135 out of Message Type Zero Test Mode and

place it into normal operation on 11/3/06 about 08:00 UTC.

Once officially operational, PRN-135 status will no longer be provided by this

non-operational web site.

PRN-135 will operate for about the first 6 to 9 months as a data link of correction

and integrity information only. That is, the UDRE will be set to "not monitored".

This will result in it being displayed with a "hollow bar" on some receiver displays.

The ranging control loop for PRN-135 will be running, but the WAAS ground system

will not provide UDREs smaller than Not Monitored until the FAA's verification of

the integrity analyses for the ranging function have been completed as part of the

PRN-138 testing. (Data link only operation allowed the PRN-135 deployment to be

accelerated to compensate for the loss of PRN-122 in the North East)

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

Why worry about it if your gps is working properly?

My computer is working properly, should I not update Windows and other programs?

No one in this thread -needs- to do a full reset to get the new WAAS satellites, all of their units were working properly. Why did you wait until the 3rd page to give me crap about it??? Why not ask the other 103 people who posted to this thread why they are worried about it?

November 1, 2006

This is from www.nstb.tc.faa.gov:

New WAAS GEO Status as of 10/30/06

INTELSAT(PanAmSat), Galaxy-15, W133 deg, PRN -135 (48)

PRN-135 is currently in the process of being switched into the operational WAAS.

The current plan is take PRN-135 out of Message Type Zero Test Mode and

place it into normal operation on 11/3/06 about 08:00 UTC.

Once officially operational, PRN-135 status will no longer be provided by this

non-operational web site.

PRN-135 will operate for about the first 6 to 9 months as a data link of correction

and integrity information only. That is, the UDRE will be set to "not monitored".

This will result in it being displayed with a "hollow bar" on some receiver displays.

The ranging control loop for PRN-135 will be running, but the WAAS ground system

will not provide UDREs smaller than Not Monitored until the FAA's verification of

the integrity analyses for the ranging function have been completed as part of the

PRN-138 testing. (Data link only operation allowed the PRN-135 deployment to be

accelerated to compensate for the loss of PRN-122 in the North East)

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

Why worry about it if your gps is working properly?

My computer is working properly, should I not update Windows and other programs?

No one in this thread -needs- to do a full reset to get the new WAAS satellites, all of their units were working properly. Why did you wait until the 3rd page to give me crap about it??? Why not ask the other 103 people who posted to this thread why they are worried about it?

Even though today is Halloween and there are people wearing bent noses out there, we do not need them here.

My mind is fried from work but here goes. Some units have to have their almanacs cleared and reloaded from the sats. My GPS V is that way, methinks. So, in order to see the new WAAS birds, I had to prevent it from seeing 35 and being satisfied with that. That is why I started this thread. Now the GPSr can use all three WAAS birds and pick and choose.

Since this thread has evolved, there has been topic that some newer units have firmware coded almanacs. IMHO, a hindrance and a pain from this geek's point of view. This may require some units to have firmware upgrades. I realize that may make the units turn on quicker, but once the almanac is in, you are good to go. I do not know which versions of software, which manufacturers, or models need to load new software to work with the new birds.

IMO, the manufacturers should be posting on their websites in a reasonable place whether or not your particular model needs new software burned in. Maybe someone can post a spreadsheet on which of the newer firmware fixed units need upgrading.

Now back to my next adventure...figuring out how accurate my GPS V can be from the binary data stream......

November 1, 2006

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

If anyone could help with this (without trolling) I would appreciate it, thanks :blink:

November 1, 2006

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

If anyone could help with this (without trolling) I would appreciate it, thanks

HEre is the the listing of updates from Garmin and their website....

# Additional Software

* GPS Chipset Type G Ver. 2.70 as of Jul 19, 2006 Download

* USB Drivers Ver. 2.1 as of Aug 26, 2004 Download

* xImage Ver. 2.3 as of Mar 23, 2005 Download

# Unit Software

* GPSMAP 60Cx Ver. 3.00 as of Jul 19, 2006 Download

-----------

I would say that there is no need to update.

November 1, 2006

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

If anyone could help with this (without trolling) I would appreciate it, thanks

HEre is the the listing of updates from Garmin and their website....

# Additional Software

* GPS Chipset Type G Ver. 2.70 as of Jul 19, 2006 Download

* USB Drivers Ver. 2.1 as of Aug 26, 2004 Download

* xImage Ver. 2.3 as of Mar 23, 2005 Download

# Unit Software

* GPSMAP 60Cx Ver. 3.00 as of Jul 19, 2006 Download

-----------

I would say that there is no need to update.

I know the updates (I frequent that page often, I'm waiting for them to get up to date with my GPS since I have a later version [2.80] then they offer ;-).

I am wondering if a full reset will help my unit.

November 1, 2006

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

If anyone could help with this (without trolling) I would appreciate it, thanks

HEre is the the listing of updates from Garmin and their website....

# Additional Software

* GPS Chipset Type G Ver. 2.70 as of Jul 19, 2006 Download

* USB Drivers Ver. 2.1 as of Aug 26, 2004 Download

* xImage Ver. 2.3 as of Mar 23, 2005 Download

# Unit Software

* GPSMAP 60Cx Ver. 3.00 as of Jul 19, 2006 Download

-----------

I would say that there is no need to update.

I know the updates (I frequent that page often, I'm waiting for them to get up to date with my GPS since I have a later version [2.80] then they offer ;-).

I am wondering if a full reset will help my unit.

It won't hurt the unit. It will be like starting up a brand new unit.

November 3, 2006

This is from www.nstb.tc.faa.gov:

New WAAS GEO Status as of 10/30/06

INTELSAT(PanAmSat), Galaxy-15, W133 deg, PRN -135 (48)

PRN-135 is currently in the process of being switched into the operational WAAS.

The current plan is take PRN-135 out of Message Type Zero Test Mode and

place it into normal operation on 11/3/06 about 08:00 UTC.

Once officially operational, PRN-135 status will no longer be provided by this

non-operational web site.

PRN-135 will operate for about the first 6 to 9 months as a data link of correction

and integrity information only. That is, the UDRE will be set to "not monitored".

This will result in it being displayed with a "hollow bar" on some receiver displays.

The ranging control loop for PRN-135 will be running, but the WAAS ground system

will not provide UDREs smaller than Not Monitored until the FAA's verification of

the integrity analyses for the ranging function have been completed as part of the

PRN-138 testing. (Data link only operation allowed the PRN-135 deployment to be

accelerated to compensate for the loss of PRN-122 in the North East)

A little over 3 1/2 hours until #48 is supposed to go into operational mode. 2AM CST.

November 3, 2006

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

If anyone could help with this (without trolling) I would appreciate it, thanks

Chipset ver 2.8 ? And what realease the Software ?

3.5k · November 3, 2006

When it goes operational you should see new england included in the coverage here: http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/vpl.html

November 3, 2006

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

If anyone could help with this (without trolling) I would appreciate it, thanks

Chipset ver 2.8 ? And what realease the Software ?

3.00

November 3, 2006

#48 was a no show in the morning drive at 7 am CST (13:00 UTC).

#35 was up alive and sending data. #51 was live but no data.

Oh, the agony of it all........

November 3, 2006

I had 51 this morning and the bar was full. When it's hollow that means it's not sending data?

November 3, 2006

No #48 for me either in Northwest Indiana.

I have a Holux 236 (sirfstar III), and I think it's only allowed to see a satellite when it's in operational mode. The only one I have ever seen is #35. I have the latest firmware that they have out. I would really like to know if someone can confirm when #48 has gone into operational mode.

Edited November 3, 2006 by apreslin@hotmail.com

November 3, 2006

IMO, the manufacturers should be posting on their websites in a reasonable place whether or not your particular model needs new software burned in. Maybe someone can post a spreadsheet on which of the newer firmware fixed units need upgrading. stream......

Sirf used to have the info posted, but now you have to show need to know to view technical data. Maybe Sirf is shippimg chips preprogrammed with 2.80 and Garmin hasn't caught it. My question is, does having more than one WAAS sat help? Doesn't just one sat send all the correction data?

6.4k · November 3, 2006

Sirf used to have the info posted, but now you have to show need to know to view technical data. Maybe Sirf is shippimg chips preprogrammed with 2.80 and Garmin hasn't caught it. My question is, does having more than one WAAS sat help? Doesn't just one sat send all the correction data?

The reasoning for 2 WAAS channels is that if there is a short interuption in the data stream, the correction information needs to start over again. If you are locked on to two satellites, it is harder to lose both than just one.

November 3, 2006

Here's what I have for the last 24 hours (when I was looking anyway)

122(35) and 134(47): 135(48) is now showing in the almanac, but marked as unhealthy

135(48): untrackable (most likely transmitting with a non-standard PRN code so only TPTB can track it)

138(51): shows 135(48) in the almanac as healthy

2.9k · November 3, 2006

eXplorist XL is showing 122(35) as receiving data, and 135(48), as searching, and this is in an open field.

My Map60Cx is showing 122(35), but showed the others as intermittent.

3.5k · November 3, 2006

Sirf used to have the info posted, but now you have to show need to know to view technical data. Maybe Sirf is shippimg chips preprogrammed with 2.80 and Garmin hasn't caught it. My question is, does having more than one WAAS sat help? Doesn't just one sat send all the correction data?

The reasoning for 2 WAAS channels is that if there is a short interuption in the data stream, the correction information needs to start over again. If you are locked on to two satellites, it is harder to lose both than just one.

I don't believe this is true. First of all, all the WAAS sats send the same data, so you only need one. If there is an interuption in the data stream it does NOT need to start over, but picks up where it left off. At least that was true in the past. Maybe the sirf chips are different. Older units keep 2 slots for WAAS sats. If one is lost, the other fills in. My sirf chip unit 60cx, only shows one at a time.

My view this morning has picked up 35, 47, and 51. 48 is obviously late on being ready.

6.4k · November 3, 2006

Older units keep 2 slots for WAAS sats. If one is lost, the other fills in.

Yes, that is why they have two channels.

November 4, 2006

For what it's worth, my eXplorist 200 began, two days ago, displaying two W icons (for WAAS stations), both in the SW (California-ish?) part of the satellite screen. The two W's were pretty much overlapping. Out of curiosity, I did a hard (complete) reset. At first, the W appeared in the SE (where it likely was when the unit was manufactured). Then, after a couple hours in the open, while I was inside at work, the W switched back to the W coast, and was joined by its nearly-superimposed secondary W.

Has any other Magellan user experienced similar displays the past couple of days?

Performance-wise, things are working fine. I typically get anywhere from 9-13 satellites locked, w/ 7'-16' accuracy here in N Minnesota. I'm just curious as to others' recent experience.

November 4, 2006

For what it's worth, my eXplorist 200 began, two days ago, displaying two W icons (for WAAS stations), both in the SW (California-ish?) part of the satellite screen. The two W's were pretty much overlapping. Out of curiosity, I did a hard (complete) reset. At first, the W appeared in the SE (where it likely was when the unit was manufactured). Then, after a couple hours in the open, while I was inside at work, the W switched back to the W coast, and was joined by its nearly-superimposed secondary W.

Has any other Magellan user experienced similar displays the past couple of days?

Performance-wise, things are working fine. I typically get anywhere from 9-13 satellites locked, w/ 7'-16' accuracy here in N Minnesota. I'm just curious as to others' recent experience.

From Minnesota, the two W's in the southwest means that you are seeing good ol' 35 and 48. 51 is south and a bit west. I have the same pileup for both 35 and 48 here in Wisconsin.

November 4, 2006

Thanks for the reply, Itchyweed (and where did THAT handle originate?). Sounds like you've had a similar experience.

Have a good evening.

J.

Edited November 4, 2006 by jacques0

November 4, 2006

Thanks for the reply, Itchyweed (and where did THAT handle originate?). Sounds like you've had a similar experience.

Have a good evening.

J.

I was given that nickname aeons ago in highschool and I do not remember by whom. I just like it and it has stay with me for years and years.

November 5, 2006

Sirf used to have the info posted, but now you have to show need to know to view technical data. Maybe Sirf is shippimg chips preprogrammed with 2.80 and Garmin hasn't caught it. My question is, does having more than one WAAS sat help? Doesn't just one sat send all the correction data?

The reasoning for 2 WAAS channels is that if there is a short interuption in the data stream, the correction information needs to start over again. If you are locked on to two satellites, it is harder to lose both than just one.

I don't believe this is true. First of all, all the WAAS sats send the same data, so you only need one. If there is an interuption in the data stream it does NOT need to start over, but picks up where it left off. At least that was true in the past. Maybe the sirf chips are different. Older units keep 2 slots for WAAS sats. If one is lost, the other fills in. My sirf chip unit 60cx, only shows one at a time.

My view this morning has picked up 35, 47, and 51. 48 is obviously late on being ready.

Two questiois:

A. If all the WAAS sats are sending the same info, why would the GPRs care where the sattelite is?

B. Let's say the GPSr does needs the position of the WAAS sats, I seriously doubt the almanac would be hard programmed into the GPSr's software. Where did this info come from(link please)?

I am missing something about almanac usage, I guess.

3.5k · November 5, 2006

A. If all the WAAS sats are sending the same info, why would the GPRs care where the sattelite is?

B. Let's say the GPSr does needs the position of the WAAS sats, I seriously doubt the almanac would be hard programmed into the GPSr's software. Where did this info come from(link please)?

I am missing something about almanac usage, I guess.

The WAAS sats send the same correction info for a wide correction zone. This correction info provides info to correct the GPS sats for timing and position errors, and also a correction model for the inonosphere whereby your GPS figures out what part of that model to use depending on your own position. The WAAS sats can also be used for rangeing (as part of your position solution) and certainly for that reason at least the GPS would need to know where to look for them.

B. The WAAS sats are geosynchronis and pretty much stay in the same place in the sky, but that is not good enough because things do drift. My understanding is that all the sats send a postion signal to the ground where it is monitored, and in fact these signals are then used as and psdo-ranging signal in the WAAS sats for a poisition solution in your gps (the reason why they are not as good for rangeing as regular GPS sat). The newer GPS sats also keep track of other sats positions and help in building the almanac. At any rate the simple answer is there are ground stations all over the world keeping track of these sats and the almanac is broadcast through a data stream from the GPS sats I believe every 12 minutes telling your GPS where to look for them. Thus once you get one GPS sat it begins to send the almanac telling you where and what other sats to look for.

I'm no expert but that is my understanding and though I understand you need for a link, it is too late tonight to go searching for them. Maybe tomorrow.

3.5k · November 5, 2006

Ok, here's one link on how the almanac works: http://gpsinformation.net/main/almanac.txt

Also read the section on the almanac here: http://www.gpsinformation.org/dale/dgps.htm#waas

Note that the WAAS almanac is not preloaded, and the GPS almanac is preloaded; but the GPS almanac is also updated all the time. Every 12 minutes I think. They speak of the WAAS almanac as fairly static (they are speaking of the WAAS sat position) but the WAAS correction almanac for the GPS sats is updated something like every 5 minutes in 5 second bursts, if I recall correctly.

Edited November 5, 2006 by EraSeek

November 5, 2006

Just to be sure... Even with the news above, I still don't have to reset my GPSMAP 60Cx which came with chipset software 2.80? Is that correct?

If anyone could help with this (without trolling) I would appreciate it, thanks

Volt,

you have the latest software versions and you should be set to see #51 in New Jersey. I routinely pick up #51 with a dark bar, but no D. As I understand other postings here, that is because #51 is sending the WAAS correction data but not data useful for determining your location (ranging data).

I did not need to do anything for my 60CSx to find the new satellites. Others with different units have had different experiences, but I assume since we both have the same hardware, software and live in the same part of the country, we should have similar experiences.

When I was in Kansas a few weeks ago my 60CSx (with 3.00 and 2.8 versions just like yours) was using #48 for correction data. I don't recall seeing #48 here on the east coast, but #51 routinely.

As an aside, my ol' GPS V also picks up #51 and I never did anything to the unit for it to get it. When this thread started weeks ago, I booted 'er up that night and there was #51 was on the sat page. Interestingly, the V displays a D on #51.

November 5, 2006

Thank you sir!

I might just be going crazy, but I could have sworn that I saw #48 here in northern NJ a few weeks ago when I was paying more attention. Not sure.

3.5k · November 5, 2006

You'll see a D on 51 on some units because it is using ranging sometimes in test mode. The 60cx series does not show D's on any WAAS sat.

48 is visible across all of the US, when it is operational. Right now it is betwwen test mode and fully operational, so no one is seeing it. Maybe they'll fix it monday. At any rate, it is a hurry up job to get the NE some coverage. It will not do ranging for some time yet.

November 6, 2006

Now 48 is scheduled to go operational this Friday 11/10:

INTELSAT(PanAmSat), Galaxy-15, W133 deg, PRN -135 (48)

PRN-135 is currently in the process of being switched into the operational WAAS.

The current plan is take PRN-135 out of Message Type Zero Test Mode and

place it into normal operation on before 11/10. (delayed a week from original

11/3 estimated date).

http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/incoming/New_WAAS_Geo_Status.pdf

Edited November 6, 2006 by apreslin@hotmail.com

November 6, 2006

I have an older Garmin Vista so will I be able to pick up the new satelites even though I don't have 48 or 51 listed on my unit? Or do they show up in the 2 blank spots at the end of the other satelite spaces?

November 6, 2006

No #48 for me either in Northwest Indiana.

I have a Holux 236 (sirfstar III), and I think it's only allowed to see a satellite when it's in operational mode. The only one I have ever seen is #35. I have the latest firmware that they have out. I would really like to know if someone can confirm when #48 has gone into operational mode.

Can you update the FW on the 236? I have yet to get it to see any WAAS birds, let alone do anything with them. I've tried SirfDemo as well as a few other programs.

Works okay without WAAS but if it's getting fully operational it sure would be nice to be able to take advantage of it.

November 6, 2006

No #48 for me either in Northwest Indiana.

I have a Holux 236 (sirfstar III), and I think it's only allowed to see a satellite when it's in operational mode. The only one I have ever seen is #35. I have the latest firmware that they have out. I would really like to know if someone can confirm when #48 has gone into operational mode.

Can you update the FW on the 236? I have yet to get it to see any WAAS birds, let alone do anything with them. I've tried SirfDemo as well as a few other programs.

Works okay without WAAS but if it's getting fully operational it sure would be nice to be able to take advantage of it.

The following thread will tell you everything you need to know to see if you are running the most current firmware that is out there.

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/modules.php?...pic&t=42774

The latest version is 3.1.1, which is what I have on mine (and came on mine)

Once you are sure you are running that firmware, use GPS Viewer to enable it. You can also do it in Sirfdemo. If you need more detailed explanations, let me know.

Also, where do you live? This will impact which satellite(s) you would be able to see.

Edited November 7, 2006 by apreslin@hotmail.com

November 9, 2006

According to this, PRN 135 (48) is now out of test mode and is operational since 2:00 CST this morning:

http://www.nstb.tc.faa.gov/incoming/New_WAAS_Geo_Status.pdf

New WAAS GEO Status as of 11/9/06

INTELSAT(PanAmSat), Galaxy-15, W133 deg, PRN -135 (48)

PRN-135 was taken out of "Test Mode" and placed in normal mode at 08:00 UTC

on 11/9.