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What qualifies as a FTF?


nikcap

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In regards to this thread about someone trying to stick it to the FTF hounds.

 

I was always under the impression that this website played in integral role in Geocaching. Geocaching is more than going out there with your GPS and hunting treasure. The on-line log and community plays a significant role in Geocaching and is why this hobby is so successful and enjoyable.

Therefore, it is my perspective that in order to claim a FTF, you must not only find the cache and sign your name to the logbook, but also sign on-line before anyone else.

 

I've been informed by some that I am way off base, and probably suffer a mental disorder for believing my philosophy. <yes, I'm being outlandish and silly here>

 

Since FTF is too short of a phrase to search in these forums with, can someone Markwell me the discussion(s) where it has unanimously been decided what a FTF is and why my perspective of what a FTF is wrong.

 

If by some odd chance you share my opinion on this, I would love to hear your rational on this. :anitongue:

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In regards to this thread about someone trying to stick it to the FTF hounds.

 

I was always under the impression that this website played in integral role in Geocaching. Geocaching is more than going out there with your GPS and hunting treasure. The on-line log and community plays a significant role in Geocaching and is why this hobby is so successful and enjoyable.

Therefore, it is my perspective that in order to claim a FTF, you must not only find the cache and sign your name to the logbook, but also sign on-line before anyone else.

 

I've been informed by some that I am way off base, and probably suffer a mental disorder for believing my philosophy. <yes, I'm being outlandish and silly here>

 

Since FTF is too short of a phrase to search in these forums with, can someone Markwell me the discussion(s) where it has unanimously been decided what a FTF is and why my perspective of what a FTF is wrong.

 

If by some odd chance you share my opinion on this, I would love to hear your rational on this. :anitongue:

Let's be fair here. I wasn't trying to "stick it" to anyone. Heck, I'M ONE OF THOSE SAID FTF HOUNDS!!! Just look at the description belw my name in the left column.

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As far as I've always been concerned, FTF is the first person to find the cache. When he logs it online is irrelevant.

 

So getting the coordinates from the owner or anyone else via; email, invitation to beta-test, personal website, different caching website, Madame Cleo or trilateraling travel bugs, before the cache is published is acceptible. Finding the cache and signing the log first is what counts.

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As far as I've always been concerned, FTF is the first person to find the cache. When he logs it online is irrelevant.

 

So getting the coordinates from the owner or anyone else via; email, invitation to beta-test, personal website, different caching website, Madame Cleo or trilateraling travel bugs, before the cache is published is acceptible. Finding the cache and signing the log first is what counts.

 

Well... yes, but it would be unfair to advertise yourself as the "first to find" if you found it because the owner gave you the coordinates. Of COURSE you're first to find, you're the only one so far that knows it exists!

 

So the general convention is that such beta-testers do NOT claim FTF. They could, but it would be tacky.

 

I'm curious, in your philosophy, what happens if I am first to find the cache but someone else finds it second but is first to log the find online? Are neither of us "first to find" then? ... and then what becomes of the third finder who does find the cache and log it online?

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In my opinion, 'FTF' means that you found the cache, signed the log, and met whatever requirements enumerated on the cache page before anyone else. It does not mean that you logged your find on-line first.

 

That's interesting.

I posted a mystery cache last year that required the seeker to find four partial coordinates in four separate caches. One player coaxed clues from other players and found the final cache without finding the prerequisite four caches. This cacher was sure to brag about the FTF and added the cache to their FTF list.

Eventhough this seeker found the cache first and signed the log a day before anyone else, was it right for this user to claim a FTF?

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In my opinion, 'FTF' means that you found the cache, signed the log, and met whatever requirements enumerated on the cache page before anyone else. It does not mean that you logged your find on-line first.

 

That's interesting.

I posted a mystery cache last year that required the seeker to find four partial coordinates in four separate caches. One player coaxed clues from other players and found the final cache without finding the prerequisite four caches. This cacher was sure to brag about the FTF and added the cache to their FTF list.

Eventhough this seeker found the cache first and signed the log a day before anyone else, was it right for this user to claim a FTF?

Quite Tacky, but you must admit - he did find a way to be the first one to find the final cache and sign the log.

 

This site does not recognize a FTF for anything so I guess you are free to place any and all conditions you want on somebody claiming it for one of your caches. Really doesn't "mean" anything anyway. - For me - find it and sign the log before others do (after publishing of course) and I will congradulate you.

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That's interesting.

I posted a mystery cache last year that required the seeker to find four partial coordinates in four separate caches. One player coaxed clues from other players and found the final cache without finding the prerequisite four caches. This cacher was sure to brag about the FTF and added the cache to their FTF list.

Eventhough this seeker found the cache first and signed the log a day before anyone else, was it right for this user to claim a FTF?

 

Is it a legitimate FTF? Yes, because he found it first.

 

Was it fair to everyone else who had to work four times harder to get to your cache? Maybe not, but then again, the other players did give up the information he needed.

 

If you want to be absolutely explicit (but why would you be so worried about it?) you could add words to the effect of "In order to claim a find you MUST find the four partial coordinates" -- but then how would they prove it? Also, this starts to become a cache with "additional logging requirements" which is a whole other can of worms.

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In my opinion, 'FTF' means that you found the cache, signed the log, and met whatever requirements enumerated on the cache page before anyone else. It does not mean that you logged your find on-line first.

 

That's interesting.

I posted a mystery cache last year that required the seeker to find four partial coordinates in four separate caches. One player coaxed clues from other players and found the final cache without finding the prerequisite four caches. This cacher was sure to brag about the FTF and added the cache to their FTF list.

Eventhough this seeker found the cache first and signed the log a day before anyone else, was it right for this user to claim a FTF?

Quite Tacky, but you must admit - he did find a way to be the first one to find the final cache and sign the log.

 

This site does not recognize a FTF for anything so I guess you are free to place any and all conditions you want on somebody claiming it for one of your caches. Really doesn't "mean" anything anyway. - For me - find it and sign the log before others do (after publishing of course) and I will congradulate you.

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I'm curious, in your philosophy, what happens if I am first to find the cache but someone else finds it second but is first to log the find online? Are neither of us "first to find" then? ... and then what becomes of the third finder who does find the cache and log it online?

 

I thought I was pretty clear on this.

 

The first person to log the cache on-line after finding it is the FTF.

 

Ultimately, Geocaching is a technology based game. This means using technology to find the cache and documenting your accomplishment on-line.

I don't see how logging on-line can be so insignificant.

 

If a cache has a verification code, then wouldn't the person to first report the code to the CO get credit for the FTF?

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Yeah, those conditions where written in the cache description.

 

What I'm not understanding is if it's important that a cache can only be found after it's published on GC.com, why is it not important to log it first on GC.com?

Edited by ekitt10
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If a cache has a verification code, then wouldn't the person to first report the code to the CO get credit for the FTF?

All caches must have a logbook these days - no code word only caches - so a moot point. If the cache is found and the logbook signed first - then it is FTF even if it takes 6 months for him to send code word.

 

Under your logic - could I not just log it first online and then go out and find it later in the day? No way to tell the difference that I can see?

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We have several FTF hounds in the area, and this isn't a controversy since all of them adhere to the honor system that whoever finds the container and signed the log first is the FTF. People will disclose that (FTL but STF, etc.) to avoid any confusion.

 

I've found caches on one or two occasions BEFORE they were published, and I call that a ZTF (Zeroth To Find) but it was due to rumor and lucky guess, not from coercing the owner or from other "unfair" practices. :anitongue:

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I thought I was pretty clear on this.

 

The first person to log the cache on-line after finding it is the FTF.

 

As you can see from these posts, though, no one so far agrees with you on this.

 

Finding the container is a Find. Logging on-line is one of the most interesting parts of this game but it is not a Find. When we log it on-line we are simple telling the world it has been Found.

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All caches must have a logbook these days - no code word only caches - so a moot point. If the cache is found and the logbook signed first - then it is FTF even if it takes 6 months for him to send code word.

 

But not if sending the code word is part of the login requirement of the cache. ???

 

Under your logic - could I not just log it first online and then go out and find it later in the day? No way to tell the difference that I can see?

 

Sure, then again, as I brought up in the other thread, what stops a cacher from finding the cache several days after it's first published, signing the last page of the logbook, logging on to the GC.com site and claiming a FTF. (Predating their on-line log) When questioned, they can always claim ignorant that they signed the wrong side of the logbook. (Actually, since I see so many log books signed starting from the back, perhaps the real reward should go to the cache that signs the first page of the log book)

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Sure, then again, as I brought up in the other thread, what stops a cacher from finding the cache several days after it's first published, signing the last page of the logbook, logging on to the GC.com site and claiming a FTF. (Predating their on-line log) When questioned, they can always claim ignorant that they signed the wrong side of the logbook. (Actually, since I see so many log books signed starting from the back, perhaps the real reward should go to the cache that signs the first page of the log book)

Nothing stops that either. Just the honor system. Sorry, your arguments just don't persuade me in the least and ours clearly do not affect you - so I guess we can simply agree to disagree.

 

FTF is just a personal claim anyway - no prizes handed out for it by the web site.

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The way I see it, FTF is the first to find the cache and sign the log.

 

Most of the time, once I'm out caching, I like to pick up several caches in an area--or maybe even spend the whole day caching. No way am I going to freak out about rushing to fill out the electronic log. I'm never in a hurry to write up my log. I like to think over what I am going to write so I can say just the right thing.

 

Around here, most of us tend to wait to log until after FTF has logged the cache online, anyway--out of deference to their find. It isn't a hard and fast rule though, and many people like to claim FTL. FTL is the first to log the cache online.

 

I'd rather be FTF than FTL any day!

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... Sorry, your arguments just don't persuade me in the least and ours clearly do not affect you - so I guess we can simply agree to disagree.

 

The funny thing is that I never gave this issue much thought. At least, not until I saw the reply about people logging a cache before it was published. I guess what I don't understand is why waiting for a cache to be published is an important element of the FTF process and the on-line logging of the cache not.

 

FTF is just a personal claim anyway - no prizes handed out for it by the web site.

 

The why some people go on about it, you would think otherwise. :anitongue:

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As far as I've always been concerned, FTF is the first person to find the cache. When he logs it online is irrelevant.

 

So getting the coordinates from the owner or anyone else via; email, invitation to beta-test, personal website, different caching website, Madame Cleo or trilateraling travel bugs, before the cache is published is acceptible. Finding the cache and signing the log first is what counts.

 

Yes. It's first to find. I think that's pretty self explanitory. For instance if someone were to list a cache on Terracaching, then a year later list it here, the first finder after it's published here might actually be the 50th finder. If he wants to call himself the FTF let him, but he's still the 50th signature in that logbook and 50 people found the cache before him.

 

In any case, when it's logged online is irrelevant. If I find a cache first and I can't get to a PC for a day or two to log it, that doesn't mean I'm suddenly the second or third to find it.

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...What I'm not understanding is if it's important that a cache can only be found after it's published on GC.com, why is it not important to log it first on GC.com?

It's the concept of a level playing field. In this case, public access to the cache information page signals the start of the race. Consider two scenarios: Cacher 1 has email and internet access via his mobile phone and is cruising around waiting for notification. Cacher 2 doesn't have a mobile phone and is sitting at home or in an internet cafe waiting for notification. Both receive notification of the new listing at the same time. The time it takes to find the cache is a combination of where they are in relation to the cache when they receive the notification (luck of the draw) and their cache finding skills. The starting location advantage should average out over time, leaving skill as the primary determining factor. If you introduce the online logging requirement, however, you are in effect adding another leg to the race for cacher 2, and the playing field is no longer level. Cacher 1 has the distinct advantage by having the ability to immediately log his find online.
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If a cache has a verification code, then wouldn't the person to first report the code to the CO get credit for the FTF?

 

I agree with all the posts sofar.....FTF (first to FIND) yada yada yada yada logging irrelevent yada yada yada yada I agree with all that.

 

If you want code verification, or code-only caches to find then you should be looking into Terracaching :anitongue:

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The curious deal is this... some of us use the GeoStats program that looks through our logs and notices if we were the the first to log a find and then gives us credit for the FTF... its technology, honor system and being the first to find and log it would seem...

 

If I am looking through logs, I see who logged first and assume they are the FTF - i rarely notice the FTL but STF stuff - i just blow right by it and think wow, they found it first... its a race, a game and a heck of a lot fun... maybe some day I will get to argue about an FTF but for now I can only talk about it here... :anitongue:

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I think I'm in agreement with virtually everyone so far that FTF is first to sign the logbook and not the first to log online.

 

I also agree that it is not proper to claim the FTF if you're a pre-finder.

 

I will go further to say that it's not really a legitimate cache until it's published, and therefore a pre-finder didn't really even find a legitimate cache, so how can they be FTF.

 

In my area pre-finders are very rare, but in the few occaisions where it's happened, the cache owner has been quick to note that the pre-finder was NOT the FTF.

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Yeah, those conditions where written in the cache description.

 

What I'm not understanding is if it's important that a cache can only be found after it's published on GC.com, why is it not important to log it first on GC.com?

 

Because I went hunting other caches after I FTFed the cache? I did not go running back home to log the cache first, but I was the first to find the cache. First to Find is FTF, not First to Log On-line. (ftLOL!)

Beta-testers, and cache owners usually wait until someone else finds it before logging it.

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Yeah, those conditions where written in the cache description.

 

What I'm not understanding is if it's important that a cache can only be found after it's published on GC.com, why is it not important to log it first on GC.com?

 

There's only one "race" and that's to find the cache. The online part is to facilitate communication; that's it. Without it we wouldn't know where the caches are or who else found them.

 

Regarding being the first to find a beta cache, that's like winning a one-person sprint! Whoopeee!

 

-E

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I'm going have to go with the OP. If you don't log it online you haven't found the cache, you didn't get a smiley and your found count hasn't gone up. Therefore it only makes sense that you must log it online to complete your find. Ergo, FTF is the first person to log it online. I will continue to do my part to show that logging a find online is integral to geocaching by crossing out names I find in the physical logs on my caches that didn't log online. :anitongue:

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I'm going have to go with the OP. If you don't log it online you haven't found the cache, you didn't get a smiley and your found count hasn't gone up. Therefore it only makes sense that you must log it online to complete your find. Ergo, FTF is the first person to log it online. I will continue to do my part to show that logging a find online is integral to geocaching by crossing out names I find in the physical logs on my caches that didn't log online. :anitongue:

 

But isn't signing the logbook also integral to the find? Which one takes priority as FTF?

 

If I logged on-line, and then went out and found the cache after someone else, am I FTF because I logged on-line first?

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I think I'm in agreement with virtually everyone so far that FTF is first to sign the logbook and not the first to log online.

 

I also agree that it is not proper to claim the FTF if you're a pre-finder.

 

I will go further to say that it's not really a legitimate cache until it's published, and therefore a pre-finder didn't really even find a legitimate cache, so how can they be FTF.

 

In my area pre-finders are very rare, but in the few occaisions where it's happened, the cache owner has been quick to note that the pre-finder was NOT the FTF.

 

I agree with your first statement, but I do have some problem with the second and third comments. There are conditions where someone could find a cache and sign the log before it is published. It is a cache as soon as as it is hidden. It does not have to be published. If someone stumbles upon it and signs the log before it is published, it is still found-and presumably an FTF. It can't be logged online until published, but that doesn't mean it wasn't found. A cache owner can handle that situation anyway he or she likes. If it happened on one of my caches, it's an FTF.

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I'm going have to go with the OP. If you don't log it online you haven't found the cache, you didn't get a smiley and your found count hasn't gone up. Therefore it only makes sense that you must log it online to complete your find. Ergo, FTF is the first person to log it online. I will continue to do my part to show that logging a find online is integral to geocaching by crossing out names I find in the physical logs on my caches that didn't log online. :anitongue:

 

I tend to agree with many of your posts in other threads, but here I part company. Logging the find online may be integral to playing the game, although many choose not to do so; but, it is not integral to finding the cache. A person who finds the cache before anyone else and signs the log, and does not log it online, is still FTF.

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I think I'm in agreement with virtually everyone so far that FTF is first to sign the logbook and not the first to log online.

 

I also agree that it is not proper to claim the FTF if you're a pre-finder.

 

I will go further to say that it's not really a legitimate cache until it's published, and therefore a pre-finder didn't really even find a legitimate cache, so how can they be FTF.

 

In my area pre-finders are very rare, but in the few occaisions where it's happened, the cache owner has been quick to note that the pre-finder was NOT the FTF.

 

I agree with your first statement, but I do have some problem with the second and third comments. There are conditions where someone could find a cache and sign the log before it is published. It is a cache as soon as as it is hidden. It does not have to be published. If someone stumbles upon it and signs the log before it is published, it is still found-and presumably an FTF. It can't be logged online until published, but that doesn't mean it wasn't found. A cache owner can handle that situation anyway he or she likes. If it happened on one of my caches, it's an FTF.

I could agree with you if the pre-finder found it as a fluke with no advance knowledge (I've seen it happen) - I know this contradicts what I've said above, but it's such an unlikely event it should be rewarded.

 

I realize that many people don't care about FTFs, but for those that do, it's a race. Getting a head start seems unfair.

 

If I was ever FTF on one of your caches, but you had given a pre-finder a heads-up and they found it prior to it being posted, I'd still claim the FTF. You could consider the pre-finder the FTF, but I'd put it my own list of FTFs and be happy with that. Most, if not all, of the FTF cachers in my area would quickly dismiss the pre-finder's claim as FTF.

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I agree with Boda entirely, but with one addendum to it.

 

If said "FTFer prior to publication" only found it because they physically saw you hide it (were with you at the time, happened to see you, etc, etc), then they shouldn't be allowed to be the FTFer, as they didn't so much find it than collect what they knew to already be there.

 

If that situation were to happen to me, I'd probably approach said hider and say something "Cool spot (or whatever). Looks like I probably won't get to claim a 'find' on this one, since I already know where it is", and generally chat it up. Probably post a note online saying I inadvertantly saw it's location or something.

Edited by Kabuthunk
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I could agree with you if the pre-finder found it as a fluke with no advance knowledge (I've seen it happen) - I know this contradicts what I've said above, but it's such an unlikely event it should be rewarded.

 

I realize that many people don't care about FTFs, but for those that do, it's a race. Getting a head start seems unfair.

 

If I was ever FTF on one of your caches, but you had given a pre-finder a heads-up and they found it prior to it being posted, I'd still claim the FTF. You could consider the pre-finder the FTF, but I'd put it my own list of FTFs and be happy with that. Most, if not all, of the FTF cachers in my area would quickly dismiss the pre-finder's claim as FTF.

 

I agree with Boda entirely, but with one addendum to it.

 

If said "FTFer prior to publication" only found it because they physically saw you hide it (were with you at the time, happened to see you, etc, etc), then they shouldn't be allowed to be the FTFer, as they didn't so much find it than collect what they knew to already be there.

 

If that situation were to happen to me, I'd probably approach said hider and say something "Cool spot (or whatever). Looks like I probably won't get to claim a 'find' on this one, since I already know where it is", and generally chat it up. Probably post a note online saying I inadvertantly saw it's location or something.I agree with Boda entirely, but with one addendum to it.

 

I guess I wasn't as clear as I should have been. My example assumed a random discovery. I don't feel that someone given an unfair advantage should be the FTF.

 

BTW Cedar Grove Seekers brings up another point. An FTF list is your list. It represents how you feel about your finds. If some disagrees with you, it is still your list.

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I'm going have to go with the OP. If you don't log it online you haven't found the cache, you didn't get a smiley and your found count hasn't gone up. Therefore it only makes sense that you must log it online to complete your find. Ergo, FTF is the first person to log it online. I will continue to do my part to show that logging a find online is integral to geocaching by crossing out names I find in the physical logs on my caches that didn't log online. ;)

 

wrong! I may be travelling, I may camping, I may busy with the family delaying my post. I still found the cache.

 

Since when did geocaching become a competitive sport? If that's the way you play the game, you can have it! If your "I win, I win, I win" attitude boosts your fragile ego, then have at it.

 

Hmmm... what's next? Full contact geocaching?

 

If it helps, you may have my FTF's. I don't need them. Leave me alone and let me enjoy the outdoors in a relaxing manner!

Edited by fndrs-kprs
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I'm going have to go with the OP. If you don't log it online you haven't found the cache, you didn't get a smiley and your found count hasn't gone up. Therefore it only makes sense that you must log it online to complete your find. Ergo, FTF is the first person to log it online. I will continue to do my part to show that logging a find online is integral to geocaching by crossing out names I find in the physical logs on my caches that didn't log online. ;)

And you guys thought ekitt10 was alone in their way of thinking! But this takes it even further! ;) I have a friend that has literally found hundreds of caches, yet has only four smiley's online ... yes, four. To him, as with many others including myself, geocaching has nothing to do with the number listed after your name and everything to do with the fun of the hunt. But that's another topic.

 

As illustrated by my avatar, I've been known to go after an FTF or two. And there have been many times that I didn't get back to a computer to log the find before another cacher logged their find first ... sometimes 2 or 3 others. But the fact remains that my name is in the logbook first and that's what matters to an FTFer.

 

This thread reminds me ... I found a few caches yesterday that I still haven't logged. :D Gotta go!

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I could agree with you if the pre-finder found it as a fluke with no advance knowledge (I've seen it happen) - I know this contradicts what I've said above, but it's such an unlikely event it should be rewarded.

 

I realize that many people don't care about FTFs, but for those that do, it's a race. Getting a head start seems unfair.

 

If I was ever FTF on one of your caches, but you had given a pre-finder a heads-up and they found it prior to it being posted, I'd still claim the FTF. You could consider the pre-finder the FTF, but I'd put it my own list of FTFs and be happy with that. Most, if not all, of the FTF cachers in my area would quickly dismiss the pre-finder's claim as FTF.

 

I agree with Boda entirely, but with one addendum to it.

 

If said "FTFer prior to publication" only found it because they physically saw you hide it (were with you at the time, happened to see you, etc, etc), then they shouldn't be allowed to be the FTFer, as they didn't so much find it than collect what they knew to already be there.

 

If that situation were to happen to me, I'd probably approach said hider and say something "Cool spot (or whatever). Looks like I probably won't get to claim a 'find' on this one, since I already know where it is", and generally chat it up. Probably post a note online saying I inadvertantly saw it's location or something.I agree with Boda entirely, but with one addendum to it.

 

I guess I wasn't as clear as I should have been. My example assumed a random discovery. I don't feel that someone given an unfair advantage should be the FTF.

 

BTW Cedar Grove Seekers brings up another point. An FTF list is your list. It represents how you feel about your finds. If some disagrees with you, it is still your list.

In re-reading your original response to mine, it seems clear that you meant random discovery, I just didn't read it that way at first. My apologies.

 

I will also add that although it is my own list of FTFs that I maintain, I would probably be irked if I someone else illegitimately claimed my FTF. I'd probably kick their a** next time I ran into them ;)

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To anyone who feels that logging on-line determines FTF over someone who actually found the cache and signed the logbook first, I am curious what the practice is in your area?

 

I am familiar with FTF races in a handful of areas, and in all of them the practice is the first to sign the logbook is FTF.

 

Does anyone know of an area where the practice is clearly who logs on-line first?

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Wow... you have a distorted view of first to "FIND." Who found it first? end of story... I could care less if the geocacher never logged the find. The website is a tool, the hunt is the game!

 

Frankly, your obsession with a FTF is a bit disturbing. Relax! Enjoy the game...

 

YIKES!!! ;) Dude, is that directed towards me?

 

I have absolutely no obsession with FTFs. I don't think I've actually hunted for a FTF in a couple years.

 

 

To anyone who feels that logging on-line determines FTF over someone who actually found the cache and signed the logbook first, I am curious what the practice is in your area?

...

Does anyone know of an area where the practice is clearly who logs on-line first?

 

Well, there was a time in Central NJ that this was the case.

 

No more than a year ago, I got a scolding from a local FTF hound that I didn't log my find quickly enough to keep him from wasting his time on searching for his own FTF.

 

My response to this was to ignore newly posted caches and wait for him to log them. I figure this worked out good for both of us, he got the FTF uncontested and I was able to find the cache and log it on-line at my leisure.

 

... I have a friend that has literally found hundreds of caches, yet has only four smiley's online ... yes, four. To him, as with many others including myself, geocaching has nothing to do with the number listed after your name and everything to do with the fun of the hunt.

 

I suspect that my approach to the game is similiar to Aquacache's friend.

OK, I must confess, that to some I've been play devil's advocate here. But in all seriousness, I always thought that finding the cache and then logging it on-line equaled a FTF.

I didn't realize that the logging on-line aspect of Geocaching was insignificant.

Edited by ekitt10
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I didn't realize that the logging on-line aspect of Geocaching was insignificant.

It's insignificant to those who aren't interested in the numbers. For others, logging online and getting another smiley is what it's all about. I must admit though, this is the first I've heard of an FTL equaling an FTF. Not long ago, a friend of mine posted the first log on a new multi claiming that he was FTA (First To Arrive) but STF. I showed up and found both stages while he was backtracking to get a better signal and make another attempt.

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I didn't realize that the logging online aspect of Geocaching was insignificant.

I feel you are deliberately twisting this phrase. Logging online is significant in some ways--but not as a function of claiming FTF.

 

Logging on-line is a vital part of the game overall. Being able to read other people logs before you hunt has enticed many a cacher to a particular spot. It's fantastic to be able to vicariously experience the caches that I will probably never visit--because they are too distant or too difficult for me. It's also a great pleasure to read the logs of those who visit a cache after I do, to see if they had the same experience I did.

 

Seeing the online logs of a particular cache is fun, but it's also useful. For me, being able to have the caches I have visted accounted for automatically is handy, just because I am a science person and I like data. It's also useful (to those who like to hide caches) to have number of visits listed on each cache-- to help determine which types of caches in your area attract the most visitors. It's great that most folks do log electronically, as it gives the folks who come along later an idea of what to expect, when the cache was last found, whether they need to bring along certain items and so forth.

 

I could rave on and on, but the point is the significance of the electronic log has ties to many aspects of the overall geocaching experience, both personal and social--but the online log is not crucial to being able to claim First to Find.

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I guess I'm confussed. Ekitt10, you say you don't understand what a FTF is but you are a charter member, have found lots of caches, hosted events, hidden 64 caches, and have over 500 posts in the forums. I find it unbelieveable that with that level of experience that you haven't figured out what an FTF is. Especially when you have posted:

"No more than a year ago, I got a scolding from a local FTF hound that I didn't log my find quickly enough to keep him from wasting his time on searching for his own FTF.

 

My response to this was to ignore newly posted caches and wait for him to log them. I figure this worked out good for both of us, he got the FTF uncontested and I was able to find the cache and log it on-line at my leisure.

That indicates you knew at least a year ago (if not before even though you have also said: "I have absolutely no obsession with FTFs. I don't think I've actually hunted for a FTF in a couple years.") that the person who signs the physical log first is FTF, not the person who logs online. So what is the point you are trying to make by starting this thread? There has to be an interesting reason so could you please let us know what it is.
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