Cache Maintenance - Let me get this straight

October 2, 2006

So, I've just gotten back from a 1000 mile road trip, and I placed 2 caches. I get home (like any good geek / geocacher, I was logging found caches, and the caches I placed from the road - using unsecured wireless connections – I love people that leave their networks wide open!) and I get this:

"September 29 by Nomex (0 found)

Hi DatumDude ,

Thank you for your cache submission. One of the things we look at when reviewing a cache is the owner's ability to perform maintenance on a cache..."

So, you (Geocaching) mean to tell me that when I travel, I can’t place a new cache????

So, I decided to read the “rules”, I’m sure everyone has read them word for word (um, yea), and I see this:

“Cache Maintenance - As the cache owner, you are also responsible for physically checking your cache periodically...”

So, I guess you CAN’T leave a cache in a new, unique place, if you can’t get back to it in “a reasonable time – normally a few weeks – in which to arrange a visit to your cache.”. Well, it will likely be a year before I’d get back to the several caches I just placed.

Oh well, I guess my original thinking about Geocaching was right... You are really just littering.

Oh well... Maybe I’ve come up with a new game... I use www.geocaching.com to find litter (caches) left by others, and toss them in the trash.

Fun for me, I still get to go out and find the litter (I mean, caches), AND I get the good vibe of cleaning up, for the most part, un-maintained trash.

What do you all think?

9.2k · October 2, 2006

The primary purpose of the vacation cache guideline (which you did not quote) is to *prevent* geo-litter like what you just dropped. The thinking is, you are more likely to maintain a cache 20 miles or 75 miles from home than you are if you drop it off 1,000 miles away during your summer roadtrip across the country. Let the locals show off the cool spots by hiding caches for you to find when you visit. You do the same in your home area, for when they visit.

Speaking of locals, may I suggest contacting the owner of a cache near each one that you dropped off? If you have a local maintainer or someone local to adopt the cache, you can get it published.

October 2, 2006

The primary purpose of the vacation cache guideline (which you did not quote) is to *prevent* geo-litter like what you just dropped. The thinking is, you are more likely to maintain a cache 20 miles or 75 miles from home than you are if you drop it off 1,000 miles away during your summer roadtrip across the country. Let the locals show off the cool spots by hiding caches for you to find when you visit. You do the same in your home area, for when they visit.

Speaking of locals, may I suggest contacting the owner of a cache near each one that you dropped off? If you have a local maintainer or someone local to adopt the cache, you can get it published.

Well then, there is some "trash" between Los Angeles, CA and Bridgport, CA (by way of Death Valley, CA), oh yea, and some in New Zeland I placed last December. Its on the South Island.

Ugh.

3.9k · October 2, 2006

Let me get this straight.... You've been a member of this sport/game/hobby for 3 years. and you didn't know it was against guidelines to place a cache that far from home? Or you didn't know that when you place a cache you have the responsibility to maintain it?

El Diablo

38.2k · October 2, 2006

I think that you should have read the guidelines BEFORE you placed your caches.

Not a getting started issue. moving to the appropriate forum.

Edited October 2, 2006 by briansnat

October 2, 2006

Aren't there boxes to check stating that you read and agree to the guidelines in order to be able to submit a new cache?

October 2, 2006

I think that you should have read the guidelines BEFORE you placed your caches.

Not a getting started issue. moving to the appropriate forum.

Yea, well, I'm not quite the Geocaching geek you are - with 20k postings.

Sorry, I'm a "weekend cacher". I read the guidelines THREE YEARS AGO, thank you, and just this past weekend thought it might be fun to "play" a little while on a 4 day get-a-way. Now, in the past hour, maybe I'm becoming a Geotrasher?

yea - geocaching!

October 2, 2006

Aren't there boxes to check stating that you read and agree to the guidelines in order to be able to submit a new cache?

Yep.

38.2k · October 2, 2006

Now, in the past hour, maybe I'm becoming a Geotrasher?

How adult of you.

3.9k · October 2, 2006

I think that you should have read the guidelines BEFORE you placed your caches.

Not a getting started issue. moving to the appropriate forum.

Yea, well, I'm not quite the Geocaching geek you are - with 20k postings.

Sorry, I'm a "weekend cacher". I read the guidelines THREE YEARS AGO, thank you, and just this past weekend thought it might be fun to "play" a little while on a 4 day get-a-way. Now, in the past hour, maybe I'm becoming a Geotrasher?

yea - geocaching!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that vacation caches were prohibited 3 years ago also.

Either way I don't understand why you are bitter and calling caches trash just because you didn't read the current guidelines. I'm confused by this. But I've been confused all weekend. Just ask Cachew Nut. :rolleyes:

El Diablo

October 2, 2006

Now, in the past hour, maybe I'm becoming a Geotrasher?

How adult of you.

Let's see... Let's see what constructive help I’ve received here?

Only The Leprechauns had anything consturctive to say.

P

Modirator, please deleat / remove my account – DatumDude.

1.5k · October 2, 2006

Whether you read or not, didn't you ever stop and think about how you would maintain these caches? Or, did you never have any intentions of taking care of the caches that you placed? You don't have to be a big numbers person on the board or in finds to realize that caches need maintenance and one that is a thousand miles away or across the ocean won't get the intention it needs from you. Don't hate the game, this rule makes perfect common sense.

As said earlier, try hooking up with a cacher in that area via email and maybe they can publish it and adopt it if you will.

October 2, 2006

Let's see... Let's see what constructive help I’ve received here?

Only The Leprechauns had anything consturctive to say.

P

Modirator, please deleat / remove my account – DatumDude.

Dude, sounds like youve had too much to drink and need a nanny nap.

Simple: go to and actuall READ the CURRENT guidelines for placing a cache, and maintaining it, then if your caches abide by these guidelines then list them, if not then contact someone in the local area of your caches and ask them to do MAINTENANCE on your behalf, then relist the cache/s!

October 2, 2006

Fun for me, I still get to go out and find the litter (I mean, caches), AND I get the good vibe of cleaning up, for the most part, un-maintained trash.

The point of the guidelines is so that caches aren't "un-maintained trash." It's so cachers place caches in places where they can be checked on by the owner regularly.

From your tone one would think you believe all (or the majority) of caches are placed on vacation, and thus unmaintianable. The guidelines ensure this is not true.

October 2, 2006

I think that you should have read the guidelines BEFORE you placed your caches.

Not a getting started issue. moving to the appropriate forum.

Yea, well, I'm not quite the Geocaching geek you are - with 20k postings.

Sorry, I'm a "weekend cacher". I read the guidelines THREE YEARS AGO, thank you, and just this past weekend thought it might be fun to "play" a little while on a 4 day get-a-way. Now, in the past hour, maybe I'm becoming a Geotrasher?

yea - geocaching!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that vacation caches were prohibited 3 years ago also.

Either way I don't understand why you are bitter and calling caches trash just because you didn't read the current guidelines. I'm confused by this. But I've been confused all weekend. Just ask Cachew Nut.

El Diablo

Sorry El Diablo... You are right. Really, I'm not poaking fun at you. Lets see, I just got home from being on the road for 4 days, having fun finding (and placing - what has gotten me into trouble) caches, while being in the most beautiful part of California. I haven’t done anything Geocache wise in years, I come home finding a message that a cache I placed won’t be listed because I can’t maintain it, I ask questions (maybe a bit hot headed) and them I get s*** on by everyone, including a moderator.

Yea, this is fun... wow, why have I been a way from Geocaching for so long?

3.9k · October 2, 2006

Now, in the past hour, maybe I'm becoming a Geotrasher?

How adult of you.

Let's see... Let's see what constructive help I’ve received here?

Only The Leprechauns had anything consturctive to say.

P

Modirator, please deleat / remove my account – DatumDude.

What did you expect? You came in here with a negative attitude attacking a game that most of us love. What you should have done was posted that you need help from local cachers to help maintain some caches that you placed that are outside your normal area that you didn't know was no longer permitted. You would have gotten lots of help, and still can.

El Diablo

3.3k · October 2, 2006

Modirator, please deleat / remove my account – DatumDude.

:rolleyes: A real Geocide, we haven't had one of those in a long time.

I read the entire thread, and you sir, came off with an attitude. You insulted other cachers, and got defensive whenever anyone disagreed with you. Time to step of the high horse and call it a night.

October 2, 2006

I totally understand your being bummed about the caches not be listed. Sure, you should have read all the guidelines first and all that, but stuff happens. Who wants to read all that anyway?

Still, you did come over fairly defensive (offensive actually).

No worries, stuff happens.

Now, let's move on to something more constructive. You have 2 caches placed and this site won't let you list them. That effectively makes them geotrash which I consider a problem and my guess is you do as well.

Your (responsible) options at this point are A. Solicit help from locals via these forums to adopt the caches and to give you credit for placing them. B. Go to one of the smaller caching sites and see if you can get your caches listed there. If you choose the latter option I would still suggest trying to find someone willing to pop in on them once in awhile to see if they need TLC.

Thank you for taking the time to place a couple caches, you did a good thing.

October 2, 2006

Modirator, please deleat / remove my account – DatumDude.

A real Geocide, we haven't had one of those in a long time.

I read the entire thread, and you sir, came off with an attitude. You insulted other cachers, and got defensive whenever anyone disagreed with you. Time to step of the high horse and call it a night.

He's so cute.

See ya around the Mo Jab.

October 2, 2006

...

What do you all think?

I think you're embarrassed and just digging yourself in deeper.

2.7k · October 2, 2006

Hey Dude, if you want something constructive, can the drama and just contact a local cacher at each place where you dropped your self-professed "geo litter" and ask them to maintain them for you. Perhaps then you will rise above all of us evil cache litterbugs.

It is really no big deal and the answer is so simple. You are making SO much more of it than it needs to be.

Does anyone smell a troll here? :rolleyes:

October 2, 2006

Does anyone smell a troll here?

I'm not so sure about "troll," but I'm definitely getting a strong whiff of something.

October 2, 2006

I think y'all being harsh with the OP are feeding what may become a highly motivated cache pirate.

3.9k · October 2, 2006

I think y'all being harsh with the OP are feeding what may become a highly motivated cache pirate.

I don't think anyone is being harsh. I also doubt that he's highly motiviated. 9 finds in 3 years and 6 of those in the last month. I've sent him a PM offerring to help him find a solution to his problem, but no response yet.

I understand his frustrations, but that's no reason to take the attidude that he has to this point. He has let emotions control his posts so far. I can't fault him for that, I've done the same thing. However I've learned from experience that isn't always a good thing.

El Diablo

1.1k · October 2, 2006

wow, anger management issues much?

jesus dude.

I'd recommend taking a while to yourself and quietly calm down a bit, and once you come back and understand how juvenile you are acting, quietly clean up your mess and stop acting like a spoiled child.

The fact that it's inconvenient to go pick up your misplaced caches is exactly why they aren't allowed. This is nobody's fault but your own, and trying to pretend it is is kind of sad on your part... think about it.

If the approver for the area is reading this thread, I hope they will attempt to find someone who is nearby and generous enough to go clean up this spoiled kids mess.

1.5k · October 2, 2006

Ok, not helping CRC, I think he's been lectured enough.

3.9k · October 2, 2006

Ok, not helping CRC, I think he's been lectured enough.

I agree. Now lets try to help him if he wants the help. It's up to you Dude...you want us to help?

El Diablo

9.3k · October 2, 2006

Let's see... Let's see what constructive help I’ve received here?

Why would you expect any constructive advice when you start your post by threatening other people's caches? You're ranting like a 4 year old. I keep expecting you to type, "OK, Fine! I'll just hold my breath till I turn blue!". If you are unwilling to follow the (reasonably simple) guidelines included in this hobby, maybe you should take up knitting.

Modirator, please deleat / remove my account – DatumDude.

Yes. Please.

October 2, 2006

It is only 7:00 on the Pacific coast, they need time to get to work and check for problems.

October 2, 2006

Can't we all just get along? :rolleyes:

October 2, 2006

Can't we all just get along?

you must be new here

October 2, 2006

Do these exchanges happen often?

Can't we all just get along?

you must be new here

October 2, 2006

Do these exchanges happen often?

No, they don't. Not very often anyways but there's always a couple of bad apples in the bunch.

I did start a thread over here asking about legal procedures regarding this thread, if say, a certain person might want to pursue something with the guy for posting stuff about his kid earlier (the offending post has been removed).

Edited October 2, 2006 by ThePropers

2.1k · October 2, 2006

Oh well... Maybe I’ve come up with a new game... I use www.geocaching.com to find litter (caches) left by others, and toss them in the trash.

Fun for me, I still get to go out and find the litter (I mean, caches), AND I get the good vibe of cleaning up, for the most part, un-maintained trash.

What do you all think?

an appeal for help with threats included...how nice...

DatumDude...if you're still reading this, you should follow the advice given higher up in the thread, and post the coordinates of the caches you hid during your road trip on a board local to the area(s) in which you hid them...I'm sure that a local cacher will be able to either list them as their own for you or pick them up so that they do not become geolitter...

I hope that this frustrating experience with the guidelines/forums does not permanently turn you off as regards geocaching...it's really a great game and is filled with wonderful people...

Jamie - NFA

October 2, 2006

an appeal for help with threats included...how nice...

DatumDude...if you're still reading this, you should follow the advice given higher up in the thread, and post the coordinates of the caches you hid during your road trip on a board local to the area(s) in which you hid them...I'm sure that a local cacher will be able to either list them as their own for you or pick them up so that they do not become geolitter...

I hope that this frustrating experience with the guidelines/forums does not permanently turn you off as regards geocaching...it's really a great game and is filled with wonderful people...

Jamie - NFA

You're late to the game...he's already been banned, and with very good reason. Good riddance.

Not even sure why this thread is still here.

Edited October 2, 2006 by ThePropers

October 2, 2006

Do these exchanges happen often?

No, they don't. Not very often anyways but there's always a couple of bad apples in the bunch.

I did start a thread over here asking about legal procedures regarding this thread, if say, a certain person might want to pursue something with the guy for posting stuff about his kid earlier (the offending post has been removed).

I was un fortunate enough to follow those posts as they came in. I agree with you about the posting that has since been removed. I understand that he was trying to be banned but that was too far.

DatumDude...if you're still reading this, and you've calmed down...an apology IS in order.

18.9k · October 2, 2006

If you check a box that says you read something - make sure you actually read it.

Where I work, we ask customers to sign a document attesting that a package never left thier sight until it was sealed with tamper resistent tape. Hardly a week goes by that at least one person tries to argue that it was out of sight. We always ask why they signed it --- sigh.

5.2k · October 3, 2006

If the approver for the area is reading this thread, I hope they will attempt to find someone who is nearby and generous enough to go clean up this spoiled kids mess.

It's not the reviewer's job to find a maintainer for the cache. That responsibility falls solely on the hider.

I've hidden a few caches thousands of miles from home and have never had a problem finding a local cacher to watch over those caches for me.

22k · October 3, 2006

If the approver for the area is reading this thread, I hope they will attempt to find someone who is nearby and generous enough to go clean up this spoiled kids mess.

It's not the reviewer's job to find a maintainer for the cache. That responsibility falls solely on the hider.

...snip

Not likely to happen. If gc.com can forward me the cache info I'll go find somebody to remove the trash.

Edited October 3, 2006 by BlueDeuce

20.7k · October 3, 2006

If the approver for the area is reading this thread, I hope they will attempt to find someone who is nearby and generous enough to go clean up this spoiled kids mess.
It's not the reviewer's job to find a maintainer for the cache. That responsibility falls solely on the hider.

I've hidden a few caches thousands of miles from home and have never had a problem finding a local cacher to watch over those caches for me.

True, but there are only two people who have the specifics on these caches; DatumDude and the reviewer. Frankly, I don't see DatumDude following through on this.

24.7k · October 3, 2006

...What do you all think?

What I think is that you didn't have a question so much as a troll.

If you wanted the "problem" solved you would have asked how.

If you wanted to go pick up all the trash, you wouldn't have time to post.

If you wanted to know what we really thought you wouldn't be trolling so hard.

Good luck.

October 3, 2006

The primary purpose of the vacation cache guideline (which you did not quote) is to *prevent* geo-litter like what you just dropped.

Just curious - are "vacation caches" allowed if the hider stipulates that someone local will maintain the cache?

Reason I ask is that there's a cache at a truck stop 3 miles from my S.O.s house in Maryland (he's also a cacher, goes by "Fandrel") which was placed by someone who lives in Kansas, according to the profile. The listing states that the hider's brother lives a mile away and agreed to maintain the cache. Things apparently went well for about 18 months, although there aren't any maintenance logs.

However, the cache was destroyed by renovation of the landscaping on either June 30 or July 1 (based on the logs), and reported missing on July 4 by a trucker who had previously found it and had re-visited several times to drop of TBs. IOW, there's no question that the cache is in fact destroyed.

But nothing was done about it.....

It's been bugging me, primarly because I'm AT that truck stop several times a week , so about a week ago, I finally decided to mention the situation to the MD reviewer, who has disabled the cache; so far, still no action, looks like it'll probably get archived.

Which it probably would have even if the cacher WAS local, since the place it was hidden in was destroyed.

Edited October 3, 2006 by cimawr

October 3, 2006

Doh!! Should have followed the link to the "Vacation Caches Guide" first, shouldn't I? :laughing:

Still, I wonder how the brother was supposed to maintain the cache when he apparently wasn't a cacher... he never did do any maintenance during the 18 months it was up, nor did anyone respond to the posts about it being missing.

20.7k · October 3, 2006

Doh!! Should have followed the link to the "Vacation Caches Guide" first, shouldn't I?

Still, I wonder how the brother was supposed to maintain the cache when he apparently wasn't a cacher... he never did do any maintenance during the 18 months it was up, nor did anyone respond to the posts about it being missing.

That's the problem with vacation caches. Too often they are babysitted by non-cachers who often could care less about the responsibility.

9.4k · October 3, 2006

"OK, Fine! I'll just hold my breath till I turn blue!"

9.3k · October 3, 2006

Silly Smurf, caches are for cachers! :laughing:

October 3, 2006

he never did do any maintenance during the 18 months it was up

Did it need maintenance? If not, it was probably not necessary for him to pop by. Until there's a problem, I don't know that we need to be nursemaiding a box. You hear it's missing, or the log is full, or someone put a porno mag in it, yeah, you want to be Johnny-On-The-Spot to resolve it, but beyond that, I don't know that it requires any attention.

October 3, 2006

Did it need maintenance? If not, it was probably not necessary for him to pop by.

That's a good point, and I should have mentioned that the the FTF post (by an experienced cacher) says "may need some care soon". :laughing:

Post #3 says "Velcro isn't holding up very well, I had to prop it up with a rock". (It was an Altoids type tin, which, near as I can figure out, attached to some ground cover material with Velcro.)

Post #11 (15 days after the cache was first posted) says it's wet.

And there are repeated notes saying it's sitting on the ground because the glued-on Velcro has come loose, and/or that it's getting rusty.... then again, nobody ever posted an official "needs maintenance" log, either. It definitely would helped if the person who reported it missing had done it as a "Needs maintenance" or an SBA rather than just a note.

However, given that the person supposedly caring for it lives a mile away, seems like if somebody was watching the logs, they'd have checked it at SOME point.... doesn't really matter all that much, other than it would be nice to free the site, or one near it, for another cache. (I will force myself to refrain from putting a micro in the lamp post skirt that's 40 feet from the original hide spot, especially since there's a Wally World lamp skirt hide 3/4 of a mile away. :rolleyes: )

Edited October 3, 2006 by cimawr

October 3, 2006

Did it need maintenance? If not, it was probably not necessary for him to pop by.

That's a good point, and I should have mentioned that the the FTF post (by an experienced cacher) says "may need some care soon".

So it was a crappy hide anyway. :rolleyes:

Probably says a lot more about the hider than the brother, though. Unless the brother had an account and monitored the online listing, he would never know to go look at it. The owner, on the other hand, got the notices and, at the very least, should have posted a note saying "sorry, I'll have the maintainer go look at it," regardless of whether he did or didn't. Not to have done so just seems inept.

October 4, 2006

So it was a crappy hide anyway.

Well, it does sound like the execution left a bit to be desired, although the hider gets points in my book for NOT using the nearby lamp skirt. :laughing:

Probably says a lot more about the hider than the brother, though. Unless the brother had an account and monitored the online listing, he would never know to go look at it.

Yup. I did a bit more looking at the hider's profile, and it looks like s/he may have originally lived in the area and then moved away; also, it appears that the account was originally a conglomerate one. Which may explain why the profile page says "Kansas", but the account's 13 placed caches are :

7 in Massachusetts, 3 of which are archived

5 in Maryland - 2 archived, 1 disabled and on the way to archived, and one of the remaining two somewhat in need of maintenance. That one, which I've found, is a micro which was originally attached to a tree in a busy area of a park, and is now just lying on the ground under it - didn't realize until I looked up the profile that it belongs to this same account.

The other's a TB hotel which, according to the logs, has been maintained by the finders, but has had a bunch of TBs go missing from it....

And cache #13 is in Kansas - a Wally World lampskirt micro.

Edited October 4, 2006 by cimawr

Cache Maintenance - Let me get this straight

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