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This a Bit of a Rant


Idaho_Clovisman
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Life is about black and white there is no grey area..people have made it a grey area in todays society by not taking part by letting someone else carry the tourch etc.etc.you either stand for something or you don't

I couldn't disagree more. Have things gotten more complicated in today's society? Of course. But to say that everything is black or white is ignoring something very important. Some things are clearly black and white but many things are not.

 

To keep this on topic, you pointed out in another thread (clearly referring to this one) that a cacher who suggested scissors in caches was in violation of the rules. The truth is, while a hunting knife will almost certainly be rejected by a reviewer, scissors may not be. Why? For the same reason that my son is required to bring scissors to school, but would be suspended if he brought a hunting knife. Things aren't black and white, there are gray areas. There is a reason why there are 9 Justices on the Supreme Court and not just 1. And for that same reason, Groundspeak must take the gray areas into consideration as they "govern" their own little community. To understand that is not to give up your values or your power as a citizen... it's all about give and take, ying and yang, whatever you want to call it. Furthermore, as you pointed out, Groundspeak isn't an elected government. They are a business and have very different obligations.

 

And BTW, DiS02, great post. Very well put.

Edited by Cache Heads
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Thanks,

Unfortunitely I'm used to disagreements like this, when someone doesnt like the rules the online business had set in place to maintain a ERSB rating of E for Everyone.

 

Its called voting with your feet in my area. You dont like the rules especially if you pay for a service then you just stop going there or using it. Try to convince others to do the same, if they support your cause great, if not least you tried. Simple

 

I'm not saying anyone here is a bad person, far from it. There are ways to work around rules set in place in the very PC USA, as the sport is worldwide but GS/GC still can be sued in this all too happy sue world we now live in.

 

Since GS makes money, however little, I'd have to say in effect they are a business, regardless of business or not, TPTB can still be sued if its even 1 person. Look at what just happened up in PA, USA with the 5 little amish girls, family was just telling me they heard on the news the guys wife & family may get sued now over his rampage, which I'm guessing they didnt even have a clue of how bad he had twisted.

 

The world & the USA is not the same as I grew up in lil over 20 yrs ago, police in schools is not something I'm used too. Locking my doors at nite is not something I'm used too, either here or where I used to live in CT (another very small town).

But times have changed, maybe for the worse, for some maybe for the better... but times have changed.

 

I'm out.

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Unnhh IC, I really resent that statement that us easterners have no concept of what the great outdoors is like. Your vote works just the same as mine, carries the exact same weight with the elected officials of our gov't as mine so dont say that us easterners have made life in the midwest/west living hell for you.

And you are making a broad statement that does not apply to everyone who lives on the east coast, so I'd appreciate it if you keep that junk to yourself.

 

Geocaching is not just a sport in the USA, its also a sport in Europe & places like Australia who have much more stringent rules about any weapon then we here in the USA do. Try getting in the face of a British Bobby some day, they can make their sticks sing, or the German Polizi (Police) they will take your head off if you look at them crossly. I know from experience with both groups.

 

I understand your disappointment with the rules set up here, but there are reasons for those rules. You & I may not agree with them, or even like them but as we chose to be a part of this site we have to abide by them, if you dont like them so much do something then.. show your displeasure by leaving & see who else you can convince to leave also.

I'm gonna guess not to many people will leave GC.com over this matter.

 

As has been said, I dont know if you have seen it or not, or have chosen to ignore it. Put a note on your cache that the special buckle knife can be redeem by the FTF with a certificate number, or by some other means.

I've seen it done on other caches with questionable & even non-questionable material because the COwner wanted to make sure the FTF, STF & ThTF got them.

 

You dont like the rules in this sandbox, go make your own group (as others have) & make your own rules. But I sure as heck dont want my 11 yr old niece finding something in a box that could harm her, or any kid. And any parent can vouch that even watched kids can get in a hell of a lot of trouble, the hospital I used to work at can attest to that & I'm not even in a big city, just a small town.

 

Note: Spelling edit, couldnt spell 'may' right for some reason. Its fixed now.

 

You need to re read the post this is what i said <>people back east have no idea what it is like to hike at 7000 ft and have a resonable chance of meeting a grizzly bear,black bear moose etc and they have no idea of what to do except be scared.<> That is true you have no idea what it is to hike at 7000 feet )unless you have been here ) you will not see a grizzly bear back east unless it is in a zoo.please do not twist my words. you may come visit someplace out west where you might encounter one or more of these animals but you do not live here,and work and play in this enviroment everyday. Now on to the voting over 70% of the US poulation is east of the mississippi river nuff said! yes your votes over issues that only concern you effect us here in the west,simply a matter of numbers. and i am from the East North Carolina i have 100's of relatives there now i know of what i speak,i chose to move here in 1973.

 

Good example of a bad blanket law the people in those countries gave up the fight to keep and bear arms they are now ruled nations and there rules should have no effect on us . I agree their laws are much more strict in regards to weapons that is a issue for them and should have no bearing on us in this country,a great example of how two different sets of rules could apply well to different areas. and i am doing something i am voicing my opinion..i am not tucking tail and leaving ,i am not taking the quitters way out.

 

i understand the idea of the note and sending it to someone that is not the point of this thread is it? but i do understand it. also (and i am not judging you as a parent) but i never allowed my girls to EVER open something in the woods i myself had not first checked out it is called being responsible. and that is the point of this thread. yes kids can and do get into trouble but mostly it is when they are unsupervised...

 

my parents allowed me to have and use a gun when i was 10 but i already knew the rules and how to be safe if i was not it would have been taken away,i also roamed the hills in NC hunting at that age.times have changed and we as parents have changed with them it is sad that our kids can not roam the woods and be safe that pains me very much ,but it is the way it is .as i have stated before i would NEVER put anything in a cache that could be found by any inocent person(child or otherwise) that would harm them..so we are back to sqaure 1.

 

Cache heads said<>Groundspeak must take the gray areas into consideration as they "govern" their own little community.<>

<> That is all i am asking for <>

Edited by Idaho_Clovisman
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Wait, how does hiking at 7,000 feet have ANYTHING to do with this topic? (But since you asked, I was hiking at 10,000 feet last weekend, and it's just like hiking at 1,000 feet, only a little chillier.) The fact that we're a gun-toting, shoot-em-up country and many other countries aren't has absolutely zero to do with geocaching either.

 

But now I'm left wondering...What was the point of this topic again?

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Unnhh IC, I really resent that statement that us easterners have no concept of what the great outdoors is like. Your vote works just the same as mine, carries the exact same weight with the elected officials of our gov't as mine so dont say that us easterners have made life in the midwest/west living hell for you.

And you are making a broad statement that does not apply to everyone who lives on the east coast, so I'd appreciate it if you keep that junk to yourself.

 

Geocaching is not just a sport in the USA, its also a sport in Europe & places like Australia who have much more stringent rules about any weapon then we here in the USA do. Try getting in the face of a British Bobby some day, they can make their sticks sing, or the German Polizi (Police) they will take your head off if you look at them crossly. I know from experience with both groups.

 

I understand your disappointment with the rules set up here, but there are reasons for those rules. You & I may not agree with them, or even like them but as we chose to be a part of this site we have to abide by them, if you dont like them so much do something then.. show your displeasure by leaving & see who else you can convince to leave also.

I'm gonna guess not to many people will leave GC.com over this matter.

 

As has been said, I dont know if you have seen it or not, or have chosen to ignore it. Put a note on your cache that the special buckle knife can be redeem by the FTF with a certificate number, or by some other means.

I've seen it done on other caches with questionable & even non-questionable material because the COwner wanted to make sure the FTF, STF & ThTF got them.

 

You dont like the rules in this sandbox, go make your own group (as others have) & make your own rules. But I sure as heck dont want my 11 yr old niece finding something in a box that could harm her, or any kid. And any parent can vouch that even watched kids can get in a hell of a lot of trouble, the hospital I used to work at can attest to that & I'm not even in a big city, just a small town.

 

Note: Spelling edit, couldnt spell 'may' right for some reason. Its fixed now.

 

You need to re read the post this is what i said <>people back east have no idea what it is like to hike at 7000 ft and have a resonable chance of meeting a grizzly bear,black bear moose etc and they have no idea of what to do except be scared.<> That is true you have no idea what it is to hike at 7000 feet )unless you have been here ) you will not see a grizzly bear back east unless it is in a zoo.please do not twist my words. you may come visit someplace out west where you might encounter one or more of these animals but you do not live here,and work and play in this enviroment everyday. Now on to the voting over 70% of the US poulation is east of the mississippi river nuff said! yes your votes over issues that only concern you effect us here in the west,simply a matter of numbers. and i am from the East North Carolina i have 100's of relatives there now i know of what i speak,i chose to move here in 1973.

 

Good example of a bad blanket law the people in those countries gave up the fight to keep and bear arms they are now ruled nations and there rules should have no effect on us . I agree their laws are much more strict in regards to weapons that is a issue for them and should have no bearing on us in this country,a great example of how two different sets of rules could apply well to different areas. and i am doing something i am voicing my opinion..i am not tucking tail and leaving ,i am not taking the quitters way out.

 

i understand the idea of the note and sending it to someone that is not the point of this thread is it? but i do understand it. also (and i am not judging you as a parent) but i never allowed my girls to EVER open something in the woods i myself had not first checked out it is called being responsible. and that is the point of this thread. yes kids can and do get into trouble but mostly it is when they are unsupervised...

 

my parents allowed me to have and use a gun when i was 10 but i already knew the rules and how to be safe if i was not it would have been taken away,i also roamed the hills in NC hunting at that age.times have changed and we as parents have changed with them it is sad that our kids can not roam the woods and be safe that pains me very much ,but it is the way it is .as i have stated before i would NEVER put anything in a cache that could be found by any inocent person(child or otherwise) that would harm them..so we are back to sqaure 1.

 

Cache heads said<>Groundspeak must take the gray areas into consideration as they "govern" their own little community.<>

<> That is all i am asking for <>

 

:D Ummmm, ya lost me. :D

Edited by Snoogans
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Since you've only been caching for a couple of months, I think you still have a bit of an inkling that these are treasure chests out there. I think in a couple of more months, you'll be satisfied with just signing the log and either taking nothing and leaving nothing or taking nothing and leaving a few choice items.

 

I think the guy (girl) has a valid point. I have all by quit geocaching (just stopped by tonight out of curiosity / boredom) for three reasons.

 

1) Moved from Californa to Georgia. Seems like GA is littered with lame caches. Sig logs in the piggly-wiggly are NO challenge yet there are more of those here than not. In Californa, I have multiple caches that were challenging. 6 hr hike w/ large alt. changes for two caches. GA. on the other hand.... Pack-n-go micro's have taken over. No challenge = no fun, and who the "heck" has a life so sad that driving through a Kroger parking lot is a "Thrill"? BTW. Several caches in my zipcode are based on Vandalism! In the park, the Cachers tagged benches, signs and street-poles with coordinates! Caching should not be Vandalism!

 

2) Pure trash in the caches. No, I'm not looking for "The Lost Duchman's Gold", let's be fair. I did however want to trade little "trophies" / Momentos. It got to the point, all that was there was soggy logs and broken McToys. Where's the fun anymore in that?

 

3) Cache-Nannies. A Micro-Tool is not a WMD. If you have so little controll of your spawn that you can make them pick from the "Child prizes" and not go off the handle that someone chose to leave something BETTER for adults to trade, you're darn kid shouldn't be let out of the house at all.

 

Sorry if you take this as a rant, but if the pro-mc-toy crowd gets a say the folks bored out of the sport/game should too.

 

Be well all.

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While I'm not going to be as rude as ADKcache....

 

I like to think that sometimes my commentary has an edge. I really don't mean to be rude. I find it very tiring when people complain.

 

That's why I have an edge. Grow up people!

"Sit down and shut up", is no way to improve / resolve problems.

 

Why is it you're allowed to complain about those who offer improvements? Should we not tire of you? If opinons bother you so, perhaps in-tar-net-for-ums ain't a place for you.

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I'd like to throw in m 2 cents.

 

I thought Geocaching was about the challenge of looking for and finding caches using our GPS units and our wits, not about finding treasures.

If that's true, we need to rename the game geo-spotting.

 

cache  /kæʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[kash] Pronunciation Key - noun, verb, cached, cach‧ing.

–noun

1. a hiding place, esp. one in the ground, for ammunition, food, treasures, etc.: She hid her jewelry in a little cache in the cellar.

 

It was about the findings. No flame, words however do have meaning.

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What he says is true and probably better out than me but the fact remains there is a problem and we need to resolve it so no side is left out remember it is for all..and i know it is not supposed to be "litter and a log" better things can and should be put in appropriate caches if you know what is in there and you do not think it is for your family don't goafter all it is our choice.

Edited by Idaho_Clovisman
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1) Moved from Californa to Georgia. Seems like GA is littered with lame caches. Sig logs in the piggly-wiggly are NO challenge yet there are more of those here than not. In Californa, I have multiple caches that were challenging. 6 hr hike w/ large alt. changes for two caches. GA. on the other hand.... Pack-n-go micro's have taken over. No challenge = no fun, and who the "heck" has a life so sad that driving through a Kroger parking lot is a "Thrill"? BTW. Several caches in my zipcode are based on Vandalism! In the park, the Cachers tagged benches, signs and street-poles with coordinates! Caching should not be Vandalism!
From your post, I think you would be happier if you chose caches with a higher terrain rating and filtered out micro caches.
2) Pure trash in the caches. No, I'm not looking for "The Lost Duchman's Gold", let's be fair. I did however want to trade little "trophies" / Momentos. It got to the point, all that was there was soggy logs and broken McToys. Where's the fun anymore in that?
It has been my experience that the contents of all caches degrade over time. For those people who really like the trading aspect of the game, you still have options.
  • Caches with higher difficulty/terrain ratings degrade slower because they get fewer finds and fewer finds from 'casual' geocachers.
  • If you make an effort to search out newer caches, you will be more likely to find it before the contents degrade.
  • Some cachers make an effort to restock their caches to counter the degrading process. Once you learn which cachers do this in your area, you can target their caches.

3) Cache-Nannies. A Micro-Tool is not a WMD. If you have so little controll of your spawn that you can make them pick from the "Child prizes" and not go off the handle that someone chose to leave something BETTER for adults to trade, you're darn kid shouldn't be let out of the house at all.
As explained earlier in this thread, the protection of geocaching children is not the only reason for the exclusion of knives.
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While I'm not going to be as rude as ADKcache....

 

I like to think that sometimes my commentary has an edge. I really don't mean to be rude. I find it very tiring when people complain.

 

That's why I have an edge. Grow up people!

"Sit down and shut up", is no way to improve / resolve problems.

 

Why is it you're allowed to complain about those who offer improvements? Should we not tire of you? If opinons bother you so, perhaps in-tar-net-for-ums ain't a place for you.

 

I'm sorry that you're having trouble wrapping your mind around my point, which seems to have been edited out of my above quote.

 

Complaints are one thing, numerous threads about the same complaints are the troubling issue for me. It seems to make more sense to search for a thread about substandard swag and add to that one instead of starting yet another complaint thread about the very same topic.

 

You'll also find numerous threads asking questions about the following:

 

Flashlights

Backpacks

Hiking Boots

Cacher's Ages

Lame Micros

Lame Rules

Cacher's Jobs (any caching firefighters or actuaries out there?)

Caching Dogs

Caching Vehicles

 

It seems like people think they're going to ask something very thought provoking, when the truth is that's it's all been asked and done before, just take the time to do a search. Perhaps the answers will be found without stirring up a hornet's nest.

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Ok now before you go looking for a rope to hang me,i will explain.Geo caching is fun and the wife and i do it together,great huh? But we do not enjoy opening a cache and finding 2.00's worth of junk,not only that but used junk...Now i am not anti kids not by any means in fact the more the merrier but some caches should be for adults (no sexual content) but nice things in a cache.So why not have them labeled adult or Kids caches?And please do not tell me it would be a pain in the but itm could be done at the time of the cach publishing.

 

When i hide a cache at over 6000 feet in the mountains of Idaho (my first cache has still not been found) i am NOT intending it for kids AND if there are kids going to it they will have to have adults with them to get them there...so they can take responsibility for their kids to not abuse anything in the cache and the adults can get a nice gift from the cache... your thoughts please.. thank you.

I know they should at least have a "teen" cache. Im 13 and i don't just want boring old things like pez and stuff.

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While I'm not going to be as rude as ADKcache....

 

I like to think that sometimes my commentary has an edge. I really don't mean to be rude. I find it very tiring when people complain.

 

That's why I have an edge. Grow up people!

"Sit down and shut up", is no way to improve / resolve problems.

 

Why is it you're allowed to complain about those who offer improvements? Should we not tire of you? If opinons bother you so, perhaps in-tar-net-for-ums ain't a place for you.

 

I'm sorry that you're having trouble wrapping your mind around my point, which seems to have been edited out of my above quote.

 

Complaints are one thing, numerous threads about the same complaints are the troubling issue for me. It seems to make more sense to search for a thread about substandard swag and add to that one instead of starting yet another complaint thread about the very same topic.

 

You'll also find numerous threads asking questions about the following:

 

Flashlights

Backpacks

Hiking Boots

Cacher's Ages

Lame Micros

Lame Rules

Cacher's Jobs (any caching firefighters or actuaries out there?)

Caching Dogs

Caching Vehicles

 

It seems like people think they're going to ask something very thought provoking, when the truth is that's it's all been asked and done before, just take the time to do a search. Perhaps the answers will be found without stirring up a hornet's nest.

 

HMMMMLike a bad dream you came back ok lets talk,what bugs me are people who complain about complaint threads...just look for a thread where someone is already complaining about soeone else complaining and add to it...and i am not trying to be rude but you add a big zero to this thread except for your drivel...

 

Also the reason people start their own thread it so that their point is clear and not added tosomeone elses point further clouding the matter...now you should take your own advice and do a search and add your thoughts to another thread about complaints and please stay out of this one and did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason the same subject keeps popping up is that it is a valid complaint? looking up someone elses post does not answer mine..if people want to talk like adults about this subject let them in peace...thank you have a great day...;):o:D

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While I'm not going to be as rude as ADKcache....

 

I like to think that sometimes my commentary has an edge. I really don't mean to be rude. I find it very tiring when people complain.

 

What's worse is that this is another of the topics that have been discussed into the ground in multiple posts. There are probably five general themes here that are chewed on ad nauseam.

 

That's why I have an edge. Grow up people!

 

I would suggest you have forum burn out. Anytime a person more or less says 'I am tired of seeing multiple threads on the same old topic.' it is a sure sign that person is spending more time at the forum than is healthy.

 

See, *you* are whining about what *you* don't like and then complaining about someone else expressing their dislike of something that you have read before.

 

Anyway, please take the above in a friendly manner. I have certainly experienced forum burnout before and the best cure is to find a new forum to haunt for awhile and come back after a sabbatical.

 

______ segue _________

 

I also like to find nice swag, but I almost never do. By nice swag I am not talking about a coupon for a free Mercedes at the nearby dealership, just something that isn't rubber balls, army men, MC toys and the like. My 7 year old doesn't even like finding such things.

 

I am getting used to reading the logs for nearby caches and seeing adult cachers who don't even have kids leave such items.

 

Not a big deal, I certainly can't change that.

 

My approach is to adopt the philosophy that it is better to give than receive. So, I leave decent swag and then put the cache on my watchlist to see if someone logs taking it. (the taker logs the take 25% of the time :o ). Again, nothing I can do about it, so I live with it.

 

I do find it fun though to read the log for that 25% who do log that they took the item.

 

The thing that gives me a slight pause is seeing cachers who put out TBs at a minimum cost of $4 each and geocoins at $8-16 each, but they don't leave any decent swag. Certainly it isn't an issue of affordability for them. To each their own certainly though. If *all* cachers gave up TBs and geocoins and invested the same annual amount into geo swag these topics would never come up. Never happen though, so move along, nothing to see here. ;)

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The thing that gives me a slight pause is seeing cachers who put out TBs at a minimum cost of $4 each and geocoins at $8-16 each, but they don't leave any decent swag. Certainly it isn't an issue of affordability for them. To each their own certainly though. If *all* cachers gave up TBs and geocoins and invested the same annual amount into geo swag these topics would never come up. Never happen though, so move along, nothing to see here. :D

Not sure I get the math here. ;) Lets say someone puts out 10 geocoins in a year at $8 each; that's $80. And lets say they find 250 caches that same year (I know ... that's a lot for some people, but just a good month for others). If they take the $80 that they spent on geocoins and use it to put swag in the caches instead, that works out to $.32 per cache. :o Can't even buy that swag at the dollar store.

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Whats really bad is people that have more posts then caches found. They have time to sit around and complain but dont take the time to go out and do some caching.

 

If I had a nickel for every time I heard….

 

Oh wait, I do.

 

(clink)

 

Hmmmm, too bad I’m only up to thirty cents. <_<

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The thing that gives me a slight pause is seeing cachers who put out TBs at a minimum cost of $4 each and geocoins at $8-16 each, but they don't leave any decent swag. Certainly it isn't an issue of affordability for them. To each their own certainly though. If *all* cachers gave up TBs and geocoins and invested the same annual amount into geo swag these topics would never come up. Never happen though, so move along, nothing to see here. :unsure:

Not sure I get the math here. <_< Lets say someone puts out 10 geocoins in a year at $8 each; that's $80. And lets say they find 250 caches that same year (I know ... that's a lot for some people, but just a good month for others). If they take the $80 that they spent on geocoins and use it to put swag in the caches instead, that works out to $.32 per cache. <_< Can't even buy that swag at the dollar store.

 

Agreed, it was a semi lame point I made. Just taking the opportunity to whine a little bit. :blink:

 

OTOH, if a person spends $80/year on coins/TBs and they visit 80 caches per year (seems a more 'typical' number than 250, although certainly there are those who find many more than that) then that is $1 per trade item. If they find 40/yr it is $2 etc.

 

Besides, there is absolutely nothing stopping those who like trackables and collectables from putting numbers on their swag and a note asking the swag to be logged at any of the sites that offer tracking/logging services.

 

I am certainly not saying anyone *must* do this as this is definitely a 'to each their own' activity, I am just tossing it out there for thought.

 

For those who find hundreds of caches per year I certainly understand not wanting to spend much money on trade items, but for those who find say 100 or less per year and presently put in stuff that pretty much everyone would agree is either junk or an item only a kid would like (and only for the first 10 minutes at that) I say "c'mon, fellow cacher, consider stepping it up a small notch".

 

An example of a great swag item that is very inexpensive would be this: cheap swag

 

The link is time sensitive so depending on when you view it the item may no longer be offered. Nevertheless this is a site where you can get good quality keychain flashlights for 49 cents each and that price includes shipping. Granted it takes about a month to get the items since they are shipped from China, but the point is it doesn't take much money to put some decent swag into a cache, it just takes a little bit of bargain hunting. Something someone will actually use and each time they use it they will remember the cache experience.

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HMMMMLike a bad dream you came back ok lets talk,what bugs me are people who complain about complaint threads...just look for a thread where someone is already complaining about soeone else complaining and add to it...and i am not trying to be rude but you add a big zero to this thread except for your drivel...

 

Also the reason people start their own thread it so that their point is clear and not added tosomeone elses point further clouding the matter...now you should take your own advice and do a search and add your thoughts to another thread about complaints and please stay out of this one and did it ever occur to you that maybe the reason the same subject keeps popping up is that it is a valid complaint? looking up someone elses post does not answer mine..if people want to talk like adults about this subject let them in peace...thank you have a great day...<_< <_< :unsure:

 

OK Clovisman, I've had my fun anyway.

 

Now, hopefully you can appreciate that I'm going to show you some respect and bail on this thread.

 

Good luck!

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Clovisman, the rules are only stated for the protection of those who may find your cache and you, and to provide guidelines that property owners, parents caching with children, and others can rely on about what could be found. Just because your cache is placed 12 miles from town doesn't mean a family couldn't find it. Just because someone puts "ADULTS ONLY" on a cache listing doesn't mean only adults will discover it.

 

An example..... you wish to place a tobacco based cache, and stuff it with cigarettes. If a juvenile finds the cache, even though it is 12 miles from town and clearly marked "ADULTS ONLY" on the page and on the outside of the cache, do you think for a moment that someone wouldn't want you to be charged for providing smokes to a child?

 

There is nothing, unless you are there watching it, to keep some youngsters, with or without parents along, from going to your cache. With horses or ATVs, it wouldn't be hard to make it a pleasant day in the outdoors. Please continue to respect the cache guidelines. If you wish something special for one of the adult finders, mail it to them later.

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Whats really bad is people that have more posts then caches found. They have time to sit around and complain but dont take the time to go out and do some caching.

<_<

Do me a favor and take a couple seconds to think about how long it takes you to find an average cache. Keep that number in your head and think about how long it took you to make your last post in the forums. I bet you'll find that the cache took 50 to 1000 times longer than the post. Therefore, you can't really compare them one-to-one.

 

Now consider that most caches are solitary events. What I mean is that you can go out and find one cache and be done. Posting to a thread, however, is more like a conversation. Depending on the thread, you might post 1, 5, 10, or more times. Each post isn't a solitary event because it is part of an ongoing conversation. Therefore, a player may have many more posts than finds.

 

Finally, consider the circumstances around when people post compared to when they cache. Many of us post in the forums during times when we are basically tied to our computers, anyway. We do not have the flexibility to go out and cache during these times.

 

Of course, I have more posts than finds. Perhaps, I'm just rationalizing. You decide.

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Clovisman, the rules are only stated for the protection of those who may find your cache and you, and to provide guidelines that property owners, parents caching with children, and others can rely on about what could be found. Just because your cache is placed 12 miles from town doesn't mean a family couldn't find it. Just because someone puts "ADULTS ONLY" on a cache listing doesn't mean only adults will discover it.

 

An example..... you wish to place a tobacco based cache, and stuff it with cigarettes. If a juvenile finds the cache, even though it is 12 miles from town and clearly marked "ADULTS ONLY" on the page and on the outside of the cache, do you think for a moment that someone wouldn't want you to be charged for providing smokes to a child?

 

There is nothing, unless you are there watching it, to keep some youngsters, with or without parents along, from going to your cache. With horses or ATVs, it wouldn't be hard to make it a pleasant day in the outdoors. Please continue to respect the cache guidelines. If you wish something special for one of the adult finders, mail it to them later.

 

Thanks for the post Trucker i understand your reasoning but i am sorry it does NOT apply to where this cache is,ATV's can not get near it even horses would have a very very hard time (but possible),and no child will be anywhere near it without the hlp of a adult .It is in Wilderness there is no trail to it,and if a adult let their child take the car and drive into the wilderness and then if the child was lucky enough to get a good enough signal to find it then those parents are exactly what i am talking about ..and they need to take responsiblity for the kids it is not up to me i have placed it ina place that no child will ever get to...but it is all a moot point as i have archived all my caches and moved on to another caching site that better suits my way and where i live ..so it is safe to go back into the woods...:anibad:

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I get what you're saying, but we can't have one rule for the few very remote caches and one rule for all the rest. It would make management of the rule very difficult and it would be confusing to the casual player, leading to unacceptable items being placed in non-remote caches.

 

I understand but again the casual player will NEVER be going to one of my wilderness caches,and nothing is confusing for those that take the time to read what it is they are getting into ..but i do understand your point and the rules have to babysit even those not capable of governing their own particapation in a game they choose to play..:rolleyes:

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Ok now before you go looking for a rope to hang me,i will explain.Geo caching is fun and the wife and i do it together,great huh? But we do not enjoy opening a cache and finding 2.00's worth of junk,not only that but used junk...Now i am not anti kids not by any means in fact the more the merrier but some caches should be for adults (no sexual content) but nice things in a cache.So why not have them labeled adult or Kids caches?And please do not tell me it would be a pain in the but itm could be done at the time of the cach publishing.

 

When i hide a cache at over 6000 feet in the mountains of Idaho (my first cache has still not been found) i am NOT intending it for kids AND if there are kids going to it they will have to have adults with them to get them there...so they can take responsibility for their kids to not abuse anything in the cache and the adults can get a nice gift from the cache... your thoughts please.. thank you.

 

Geocaching gets me out with my kids on long walks in search for caches and we get our chance to talk about anything or nothing. I get to spend time with my kids, gets them out of the house, gets us out in nature, away from phones, computers and ps/2's. Priceless!

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That is some of the biggest load of Crap i have ever heard and does not in any way shape of form apply to Idaho's wilderness areas in fact it is just plain stupid..to use that line of reasoning then if someone hunted in the same parks or forest and then they could leave a gun or dynamite for a prisoner to find and then he could really wreck Havoc...plain stupid IMO

Ok. I can't believe noone caught this.

 

Why on earth would a HUNTER be carrying dynamite?

 

FISHERMEN use dynamite!

 

GET IT RIGHT, MAN!

:DB)B):DB)

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I get what you're saying, but we can't have one rule for the few very remote caches and one rule for all the rest. It would make management of the rule very difficult and it would be confusing to the casual player, leading to unacceptable items being placed in non-remote caches.

 

I understand but again the casual player will NEVER be going to one of my wilderness caches,and nothing is confusing for those that take the time to read what it is they are getting into ..but i do understand your point and the rules have to babysit even those not capable of governing their own particapation in a game they choose to play..B)

 

At the risk of stirring up a North Korea sized hornet's nest you do realize GC.com is just a listing site and has no control whatsoever over your cache other than to list or not to list right?

 

I mean if you have some remote cache and you want to put items in it that aren't intended for kids, just put a note in your cache description to the effect that "This cache is not intended for children" and leave it at that.

 

Fair warning is given.

 

From that point who is to say you or a visitor put the fifth of Jack Daniels or pack of Marlboros or old copy of Hustler in the cache?

 

I mean I am certainly not encouraging you to abuse the system, but at the same time if there is something you really feel the need to put into a cache there is nothing stopping you from doing so.

 

I encourage you to be safe, be responsible and legal, but if you are all that and you still wish to have something in a cache that isn't always universally agreed upon as kosher, there is nothing stopping you from putting it in your or someone else's cache.

 

One of the things I find really funny is reading the logs where someone finds a utility knife in a cache. The logs often read like this "L <stupid trade item> and noticed a highly dangerous and offensive swiss army knife type thing in the cache and so I dutifully removed it ASAP." Well you just know the person was tickled pink with the find and is having fun on the log page in a 'wink wink' manner.

 

Go to a caching event and talk to people and I think you will find folks are far more open minded than what is represented on the forums.

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I get what you're saying, but we can't have one rule for the few very remote caches and one rule for all the rest. It would make management of the rule very difficult and it would be confusing to the casual player, leading to unacceptable items being placed in non-remote caches.

 

I understand but again the casual player will NEVER be going to one of my wilderness caches,and nothing is confusing for those that take the time to read what it is they are getting into ..but i do understand your point and the rules have to babysit even those not capable of governing their own particapation in a game they choose to play..B)

 

At the risk of stirring up a North Korea sized hornet's nest you do realize GC.com is just a listing site and has no control whatsoever over your cache other than to list or not to list right?

 

I mean if you have some remote cache and you want to put items in it that aren't intended for kids, just put a note in your cache description to the effect that "This cache is not intended for children" and leave it at that.

 

Fair warning is given.

 

From that point who is to say you or a visitor put the fifth of Jack Daniels or pack of Marlboros or old copy of Hustler in the cache?

 

I mean I am certainly not encouraging you to abuse the system, but at the same time if there is something you really feel the need to put into a cache there is nothing stopping you from doing so.

 

I encourage you to be safe, be responsible and legal, but if you are all that and you still wish to have something in a cache that isn't always universally agreed upon as kosher, there is nothing stopping you from putting it in your or someone else's cache.

 

One of the things I find really funny is reading the logs where someone finds a utility knife in a cache. The logs often read like this "L <stupid trade item> and noticed a highly dangerous and offensive swiss army knife type thing in the cache and so I dutifully removed it ASAP." Well you just know the person was tickled pink with the find and is having fun on the log page in a 'wink wink' manner.

 

Go to a caching event and talk to people and I think you will find folks are far more open minded than what is represented on the forums.

 

Very good post dave kudos to you ...i did exactly what you said i mentioned in my cache listing it was not intended for childrenand i listed what i put into it,they would not approve my cache..and you are correct that these items are left in caches and they are removed by (big brother) LOL i tried following the rules i placed my cache in a place that would NEVER be visited by a child without parent supervision and i was shot down so i archived it and went elsewhere..:D

 

Confucius' Cat SHHHHHH no one caught it and it is near my favorite fishing hole ...Mum is the word.... B):DB):D

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With the exception of 4 or 5 posters in this thread there sure are alot of folks kinda laying it on thick and that i am wrong or a total noob....well fine i can take that but it does not address the question .."Why can there not be caches for all sorts of folks and children..why?

Well, here's my answer: because you can't control what other people do, you can only control what you do and how you react to what other people do. Sure, you could make adults/kids-only caches, and I think in theory that's not a bad idea, but how would you enforce it? You could just as easily make a note in the description communicating your intent, but you're still at the mercy of people who find it.

 

Personally, I'm with the others who have said they are in it for the hunt. But obviously, that's not true of everyone. I cache with the kids and I don't think I've taken anything for myself yet, but what I'm enforcing with them is to leave something of similar value to what they take, or to take nothing at all. I'm new to the sport and have not set up my own caches yet. When I do, I will probably put a mix of "good" vs. "toy" items in, request a like for like trade in the description, and hope for the best. But I know that the reality is I can't enforce anything, and if I can't accept that, then I won't place the cache in the first place. No need to set myself up for unnecessary disappointment. :D

 

And for the people who use broken stuff/used dental floss, that's just gross. I don't understand why people would do something like that. ;)

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And for the people who use broken stuff/used dental floss, that's just gross. I don't understand why people would do something like that. ;)

I think I can shed some light on that.

 

It is human nature to lie. But it is also human nature to know that lying is wrong. Therefore if one trades something (albeit TRASH), one can say, with an element of truth, that one "traded" for the item.

 

People will rarely just flat-out lie about anything. There is usually the "skin of the truth, stuffed with a lie". In fact, the lack of any element of truth makes for a lousy (and unbelievable) lie.

 

So, bottom line, it is human nature to take advantage of "opportunities" of which "something for nothing" is perhaps THE prime "opportunity". But an "honest" person (please pardon the expression in this context!) does not want people to think they have traded unfairly, so they will "spin" (wow! That's a common word these days, aint it?) :D their log so as to look "honest". Or they will deny their trade altogether in the log. Therefore, cache quality will inevitibly diminish as long as caching is practised by humans.

 

Many strive to rise above their basal nature, but there will always be those who would rather take advantage of "opportunities".

 

Not much you can do to change it.

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I think many caches with trinkets are aimed at kids because they're the ones most likely to need a reward for finding the cache. Most adults realize that whatevers in the box probably wasn't the point of the cache, and if they really want something they could go buy it themselves (and get in their favorite color or whatever too!).

 

However, if you want to encourage more adult stuff (minding the forbidden stuff of course), keep doing what your doing. When you visit caches, take out one used kids toy and put in some cool 'adult' thing. And when you place caches put lots of adult stuff in them.

 

Exactly! You wrote exactly what I was thinking... :laughing:

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Since you've only been caching for a couple of months, I think you still have a bit of an inkling that these are treasure chests out there. I think in a couple of more months, you'll be satisfied with just signing the log and either taking nothing and leaving nothing or taking nothing and leaving a few choice items.

 

It took me about 3 months or so before I got tired of trading for trinkets that I wasn't really interested in anyway and now I look for TBs and coins to move about and am satisfied with just signing the log. I'll still carry a few things like hand warmers (in the winter) and a few nice trinkets, just in case I find something in a cache that I just can't do without (hasn't happened yet).

Yeah, I agree...TB's and coins are most definately what I crave! (and the hunt)! But my daughter gets a kick outta trading "junk", so its ok to me. I just get a kick outta seeing her being so indecisive on what to take and what to leave! Same feelings about the nice trinkets too. I struggled for a bit with the swag issue...but now...it really doesn't matter!
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IC, The fact is, you could place a cache in the most remote location possible, but GC.com cannot confirm that without actually going out there and checking up on it, nor can they guarantee that youngsters can not reach it. YOU can say that it is not reachable by kids, and while that might be true, but it is also true that OTHERS can make that same claim and be lying. There is no reasonable way that GC.com can check each instance. They have to take your word for it.

 

So, if they approve your cache, knowing that it contained a banned item, then you can count on others figuring out that they can place whatever they want in their caches since GC.com approved this one.

 

I understand your point of view, and had actually considered using decorative knives as prizes before finding out that it was against GC.com's rules (Though mine were not that expensive). However, I suggest that if you really want to hand out a knife as a reward, then there have been a couple of reasonable suggestions on how that can be done and still follow the guidelines. That would be a compromise between doing exactly what you want, and what GC.com requires.

 

Of course, you can do what you want, whether that be posting the cache on your own website, posting on another caching site, or simply not mentioning "precisely" what the FTF prize was. Fact of the matter is, GC.com did what was best for this site IMO, and that was to have fairly open guidelines (only a few items are actually banned) while appeasing those who would fear lawsuits due to the negligence of others. By banning items that those people, who are vital to the sport, consider innapropriate to a "family-friendly" activity, they reached an agreement with those people so that people can use those lands.

 

Some others have mentioned that there are other sites that do not have those rules in place. Fact is that there are a LOT of people who appreciate those rules, judging by the number of people who use GC.com as a listing service, as opposed to those who use other sites.

 

(Edit to delete a quote I did not mean to have in there)

Edited by Team JKKnK
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With the exception of 4 or 5 posters in this thread there sure are alot of folks kinda laying it on thick and that i am wrong or a total noob....well fine i can take that but it does not address the question .."Why can there not be caches for all sorts of folks and children..why?

Well, here's my answer: because you can't control what other people do, you can only control what you do and how you react to what other people do. Sure, you could make adults/kids-only caches, and I think in theory that's not a bad idea, but how would you enforce it? You could just as easily make a note in the description communicating your intent, but you're still at the mercy of people who find it.

 

Personally, I'm with the others who have said they are in it for the hunt. But obviously, that's not true of everyone. I cache with the kids and I don't think I've taken anything for myself yet, but what I'm enforcing with them is to leave something of similar value to what they take, or to take nothing at all. I'm new to the sport and have not set up my own caches yet. When I do, I will probably put a mix of "good" vs. "toy" items in, request a like for like trade in the description, and hope for the best. But I know that the reality is I can't enforce anything, and if I can't accept that, then I won't place the cache in the first place. No need to set myself up for unnecessary disappointment. <_<

 

And for the people who use broken stuff/used dental floss, that's just gross. I don't understand why people would do something like that. ;)

 

I'm with you 100%. I have low-cost items in the car for hunts, and while they may not be of much value, they are certainly more valuable than the 90%+ junk that is usually in there. I usually don't trade myself, but if I did come across something interesting, I would still TNLN, and curse myself for not preparing for that cool trade.

 

I would hope that finders who come across any of my caches (When I get the set up) would simply take the junk out of there, and only leave items with value. Practically, I can see a few plastic toys for the kids, and of course anything interesting to an adult, but anything dirty, broken, or just plain gross, can be thrown away, and I'd trust finders to make their own judgement on that. There have been many times I've wanted to just scoop up the "crap" and throw it away, but never have because I don't know if the cache owner would be happy or upset.

 

FWIW - My first cache should be a very challenging puzzle cache, designed to appeal to people who like to figure out puzzles. The prizes I expect to put in there will hopefully be nice enough to equal the challenge of the hunt, and I hope that people who hunt for it will either trade appropriately, or not trade at all, but there is no way for me to control it, so I understand that I'm basically spending my money for other people's enjoyment. I guess that's my decision.

 

We are way off topic now, so that is all...

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SOoooo, anyhow, back on topic,

I appreciate you trying to create an adult type cache, but in reality, this is a family friendly

sport and all caches should be geared that way. If your adult type theme is to have some

nicer things for adults, your just looking to get ransacked (not all cachers are honest).

Many adult cachers don't trade up or even either. I do not believe that caches are there to trade

expensive items, just items of low or no real monitary value (which at times these things

are quite useful if you have the need for something). I don't cache to find nice swag, I cache

for the sport, for the find, and for the nature and fun times that go along with caching.

With your hide 6000 ft in the mountains, good luck with that. Most parents take responsiblity

for their children regardless, but there will always be the irresponsible ones that let their

kids do what they want, no matter if it is an urban (1/1) or 6000 ft in the mountains.

You can try to label it kid or adult, but I don't think it will stay that way. That just isn't the nature of

this sport.

Truly, no bad intent meant on what I said, that's just my thought on the subject.

I'd like to hear you report back when your cache is

published for 6 months to a year or so. I would be curious to see if you were successful.

 

 

Ok now before you go looking for a rope to hang me,i will explain.Geo caching is fun and the wife and i do it together,great huh? But we do not enjoy opening a cache and finding 2.00's worth of junk,not only that but used junk...Now i am not anti kids not by any means in fact the more the merrier but some caches should be for adults (no sexual content) but nice things in a cache.So why not have them labeled adult or Kids caches?And please do not tell me it would be a pain in the but itm could be done at the time of the cach publishing.

 

When i hide a cache at over 6000 feet in the mountains of Idaho (my first cache has still not been found) i am NOT intending it for kids AND if there are kids going to it they will have to have adults with them to get them there...so they can take responsibility for their kids to not abuse anything in the cache and the adults can get a nice gift from the cache... your thoughts please.. thank you.

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The key problem is that all caches listed here are for all folks, and all finders be they cachers or accidental.

 

That means you have to use the lowest common denominator. In turn that means you have to assume that kids will find the cache regardless if how remote the cache is.

 

As for SWAG, it's the perception that's written in the guidlines, not the reality. Land managers don't like the idea of certain items in the caches that are fine in reality. This site toes the line rather than risk cache bans from those land managers.

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No Problem folks,i understand all the reasons and whys,and why nots,i chose as i said earlier to take my caching experience elsewhere..not that geo caching is bad ,it is just not a game i am interested in playing i may do no more than 10 caches a year but they are long hikes into remote places here in Idaho and the west where i can leave different types of items and no one thinks ill of it .,..

 

Maybe i expected more than i should have from geo caching in truth i had no idea it was such a childrens game the wife and i went to like 25 caches in a very short time and of them all only 2 were nice at all the others were filled with junk..so anyway ya'll have fun and so will I...see ya on the trail..

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