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This a Bit of a Rant


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....i will go pull it and move it a bit and then register with terracachers as they have no such rules...

If there must be weapons in your caches, then I agree-- Geocaching.com is not the right place for you. Finding an alternative listing site that suits you is a much better idea than fighting to change a site that doesn't.

 

(Kind of like simply switching to Pepsi instead of constantly complaining to Coke that their soda isn't sweet enough :D)

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That is the route i followed i even listed the beltbuckle knife,in the listing as i wanted to be honest about it .and they disabled my cache becaue of the belt buckle knife i had placed in their for the first finder...so i guess i will go pull it and move it a bit and then register with terracachers as they have no such rules...i do not want any kid getting hurt either but i also know that their will be no kids at this cache (without adult help) so be it . the rules seem a bit geared toward the in experienced person,with no leeway for the ones with common sence...to bad
You know, that guideline was not put in just to protect the children of geocachers.
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I have to admit that the quality of things in a cache seemed to have dropped over the years. Some caches, it borders on "used toilet paper" and "used toothpicks". If you are setting a cache, at least put some effort into it, and not just used gum wrappers, vending machine plastic toys and a rock from the ground. Log only caches are fine, and I am not out to gain assets when I cache. But if I am going to leave a 10.00 pocket knife, it would be nice to have a 10.00 item to take. Granted, many cachers take a 10.00 item and leave a 10 cent item, and that is a VALID RANT. Those are the type of people that do not belong in our sport. But overall, it would be nice to see some nicer items for those that want to trade "like for like".

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I disagree with the statement that a cache 12 miles up in the mountains should be off limits to kids. When I was young, I spent most of my non-school, awake time 12 miles out in the wilderness - often with no adults for miles. Granted, these are different times, but back then the neighborhood kids spent more time out exploring abandoned mines and hiking up the sides of forested canyons rather than be indoors or out in paved over parks and such. I probably wouldn't like my son hiking out in the woods with the grizzlys and mountain lions, but from my own experience, there are certainly a lot of kids able to do a lot more strenuous hiking than most adults.

 

Funny thing is, back then I think a lot of those hikes were for treasure hunting - abandoned gold mines, airplane crash sites, chinese worker family stashes, stagecoach robbers buried treasure from Buillion Bend... all stuff we went well off the beaten path to try and find.

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But if I am going to leave a 10.00 pocket knife, it would be nice to have a 10.00 item to take. Granted, many cachers take a 10.00 item and leave a 10 cent item, and that is a VALID RANT. Those are the type of people that do not belong in our sport. But overall, it would be nice to see some nicer items for those that want to trade "like for like".

 

But you are citing the exact reason for your rant! I would have no problem leaving $10 swag items in caches if I knew that there were $10 swag items for me to take. Heck, I might even be generous and only take a $5 item. In an ideal world, this is how it would work.

 

But I leave my $10 item, the next guy trades it for his 10-cent item, and then you come along and complain that there's only crap in the cache. Well, that's not my fault anymore. :D

 

The problem lies squarely with greedy cachers. I have always stocked my caches with nice stuff, and when I make trades I always leave nice stuff, frequently taking nothing. If the cache is full of crap when you get there, there is a long list of people who could take the blame...

 

By the way, I thought pocket knives weren't allowed in caches... or is that another rant thread? :lol:

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I leave good swag and am usually disappointed that future finders rarely log what they actually take. Of the last 30 items I've left, less than half a dozen have been reported as removed. This also goes for the cache I own. Only twice has the item been listed as taken, despite 10-15 being placed in there. I check the cache today, and sure enough, all are gone.

 

I place a nice item for people to take. Since it is rather unusual swag, I would hope to get at least a comment. But for the most part no. I wonder why that is. Perhaps embarassment for trading it for a broken McToy?

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I have to admit that the quality of things in a cache seemed to have dropped over the years. Some caches, it borders on "used toilet paper" and "used toothpicks". If you are setting a cache, at least put some effort into it, and not just used gum wrappers, vending machine plastic toys and a rock from the ground. Log only caches are fine, and I am not out to gain assets when I cache. But if I am going to leave a 10.00 pocket knife, it would be nice to have a 10.00 item to take. Granted, many cachers take a 10.00 item and leave a 10 cent item, and that is a VALID RANT. Those are the type of people that do not belong in our sport. But overall, it would be nice to see some nicer items for those that want to trade "like for like".

 

My area tends to have the used toothpicks. After caching for awhile, I decided to make an "upper swag " cache. Part experiment, to see if that trade equal, trade up rule could last. I placed the cache in a place that wont get found often. In fact, I think there are only 3 finders in a year. THAT HAVE POSTED.....anyway.....It involves quite a drive in the foothills, and a walk in an interesting area.....the area was why I placed the OTHER cache there, and then noticed I could finally place my upper swag as well. Items average $8-10. Appeal to ANYONE. I mean, I have stuff for men, women, and children. Nothing less than $5 . This was noted on the cache page. The ftf took a carved rappala lure from Sweden......and left a sea shell from his pocket. At that point, I was thinking......ok, theory proven. But the next two didnt have fair items to trade so only signed the log. Maybe there ARE a few honest folks?

And the guy that left a sea shell? He owes me lunch! Said so himself! Im going with the surf and turf.

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A couple of things.

 

Believe it or not I have a daughter that occasinoally goes caching with me. She is my older daughter, the younger one goes with me all the time. Anyway, my older daughter is in that teenage angst stage and has a very strange attitude about things (go figure). We hit one cache down in TN and found a beat to hell barbie doll head. She said cool, took it and still has the thing. Why, I have no idea, but there you have it. As so many have said, one persons trash is anothers weird demented treasure.

 

As for caches that children should not go to, I feel if a child can make it up to a cache at 100,000 ft asl, more power to them. If an adult cacher can carry a child up to the same cache, more power to them. My younger daughter and I generally cycle to caches. She is in fifth grade and will do ten/twelve miles a day sometimes. We enjoy it. It is our thing. I won't tell her that she can't go on any caches.

 

Weapons, wether one should place weapons, knives, etc. in a cache, even if it is stated that it is an adult cache, etc. there is no time when this is suitable. Think of it from this angle. Lets say that someone runs across your cache, someone who does not cache. Every cache has a notice in the cache just in case that happens. What would happen if this were a child or a teenager and something unacceptable happened with that item. At the very least what kind of bad publicity would that event bring to caching? What would that do for the sport? Can you picture caching becoming illegal in an attempt to control this? (Granted this is a stretch, but stranger things have happened.)

 

I believe that any cache should be set up in such a way as to make people comfortable with it even if their 3 year old stumbled across it and opened it up by themselves, regardless of where it is located.

 

Just my opinion and my two cents worth.

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I place a nice item for people to take. Since it is rather unusual swag, I would hope to get at least a comment. But for the most part no. I wonder why that is. Perhaps embarrassment for trading it for a broken McToy?

 

I believe it is Greed that leads them to take the item and embarrassment for the trade that keeps them form mentioning the trade in the log book or online. In one of my caches, the people that left the used chapstick, pocket lint, or movie stubs never mentioned what they took.

 

I have noticed that many folks trade out of ignorance. I believe in "trading fair" Not all things have a set dollar value but they have a "coolness/interest value". There are cachers that treasure their signature items so much that I have seen a cacher take a $30 hand made bone, buffalo horn, brass and jade Indian style choker and a $10 hand carved Zuni bear charm and leave his painted rock and painted metal disk signature items. Too many times I have seen where someone leaves a 10 cent squishy lizard for a $1+ item because they wanted the item and knows their kid grabs every squishy lizard they see so some kid will really enjoy it when they find it???

 

Other cachers have a since of entitlement that they deserve something because they had to work to find the cache. I have been shocked at the logs that state that they were aware that they did not trade even but they had nothing of equal value but the cache was tough. These are likely the same people that steal office supplies and tools from their employer,make numerous personal phone calls, take extended breaks or spend time on the Internet at work because they do not feel they are adequately compensated for their time and effort.

 

I try to find things to trade that are unique and can't be purchased at walmart or the dollar store. Not all of them are greatly expensive items but they are hopefully interesting to most ages: hand carved fish, LED Dippin Dots finger lights, Totem Power Stones, Spirit Stone signature item, Golden Mouse signature pins for nice caches in the woods, miniature sample bricks from a brick company in VA, Old and Foreign coins, Elvis Tokens minted by the Elvis fan club in the 70's, Stones and minerals (Obsidian, Topaz, Apache Tear, Silver) I have collected from across the country, 1950's through 1990's baseball cards, Blinkers for nano caches, etc. Many of these items are not expensive when bought in bulk, or if I don't count the cost of the trip to Delta UT :laughing:. I like to know that others that find my caches or find a cache after I do have the chance to find a unique trade item. I hope to lead by example and inspire others to find more intersting trade items. I wish more people would start thinking out of the box and put more imagination into their trade items. Therefore, caches do not have to be full of knives and lighters to be interesting to adults, and many of these items are interesting to kids as well.

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Ok going to answer a few of these, but first the beltbuckle knife has been removed from the cache,so i did follow the rules in place but that does not mean they are good rules ,i do not enjoy anything in life that treats me like a child sorry been there done that...and too many of you are out of context about this thread it is NOT about what is traded into the cache but what you are allowed to put in the cache,in the first place,and the fact that their are no rules for adult caches where we can put nice things for other adults to find Geocaching is NOT all about Kids. But Kids are a huge part of it and there should be rules to protect them i am all for that but you can not have one set of rules to govern people from 3 to 90..sorry somejust do not apply.

 

Quote Cache Heads<> If there must be weapons in your caches, then I agree-- Geocaching.com is not the right place for you. Finding an alternative listing site that suits you is a much better idea than fighting to change a site that doesn't. End Quote<>

 

I am very sorry but it isbecause of attitudes like yours that we have stupid rules to protect people from themselves,i assume you just had to use the word WEAPON, which a 2 inch belt buckle knife in not ..it is infact a collectors item ...rolls eyes...

 

Quote sBell 111<> You know, that guideline was not put in just to protect the children of geocachers.end Quote<>

 

would you care to elaborate on who else it was put into place to protect?

 

Quote InMountains <> I have to admit that the quality of things in a cache seemed to have dropped over the years. Some caches, it borders on "used toilet paper" and "used toothpicks". If you are setting a cache, at least put some effort into it, and not just used gum wrappers, vending machine plastic toys and a rock from the ground. Log only caches are fine, and I am not out to gain assets when I cache. But if I am going to leave a 10.00 pocket knife, it would be nice to have a 10.00 item to take. Granted, many cachers take a 10.00 item and leave a 10 cent item, and that is a VALID RANT. Those are the type of people that do not belong in our sport. But overall, it would be nice to see some nicer items for those that want to trade "like for like".End Quote<>

 

I 100% agree with you thanks for the post..

 

Quote KKTH3 <> I disagree with the statement that a cache 12 miles up in the mountains should be off limits to kids.End Quote<>

 

Please reread the post i NEVER Said it should be off limits to kids ,i said that for a kid to get to this cache he would need adult assistance and if their was a adult present then he would be responsible for his childs actions..i assure you it would take a kid over 1 and 1/2 days to hike to this cache..i am all for kids caching.

 

Quote Biosearch<> A couple of things.

 

Believe it or not I have a daughter that occasinoally goes caching with me. She is my older daughter, the younger one goes with me all the time. Anyway, my older daughter is in that teenage angst stage and has a very strange attitude about things (go figure). We hit one cache down in TN and found a beat to hell barbie doll head. She said cool, took it and still has the thing. Why, I have no idea, but there you have it. As so many have said, one persons trash is anothers weird demented treasure.

 

As for caches that children should not go to, I feel if a child can make it up to a cache at 100,000 ft asl, more power to them. If an adult cacher can carry a child up to the same cache, more power to them. My younger daughter and I generally cycle to caches. She is in fifth grade and will do ten/twelve miles a day sometimes. We enjoy it. It is our thing. I won't tell her that she can't go on any caches.

 

Weapons, wether one should place weapons, knives, etc. in a cache, even if it is stated that it is an adult cache, etc. there is no time when this is suitable. Think of it from this angle. Lets say that someone runs across your cache, someone who does not cache. Every cache has a notice in the cache just in case that happens. What would happen if this were a child or a teenager and something unacceptable happened with that item. At the very least what kind of bad publicity would that event bring to caching? What would that do for the sport? Can you picture caching becoming illegal in an attempt to control this? (Granted this is a stretch, but stranger things have happened.)

 

I believe that any cache should be set up in such a way as to make people comfortable with it even if their 3 year old stumbled across it and opened it up by themselves, regardless of where it is located.

 

Just my opinion and my two cents worth.End Quote<>

 

Read the whole thread you are way off base and you are misrepresenting what i have said and you too are using the word WEAPONS for effect. LISTEN NO child would ever stumble on this cache in the manner you spoke of ..please read this entire thread before posting on it thank you...

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I'd like to throw in m 2 cents.

 

I thought Geocaching was about the challenge of looking for and finding caches using our GPS units and our wits, not about finding treasures. In my opinion, the finding itself is supposed to be the reward. Getting outside and hiking around and having fun is also supposed to be part of it. Geocaching is in my opinion, a great way to combine the great outdoors with high technology.

 

As for trading, sometimes if it's a themed cache, I might buy a small item that fits the cache theme. Some examples I can think of are when I went after a cache with a theme of peppers, I found a small refrigerator magnet that looked like a pepper to put in it. It was only a buck, but it fit the theme. When I do leave something behind, I will try to keep with the theme of the cache if possible.

 

The last time I did some caching, it seemed like most of the caches I was going after were micros. Seems like most of the new caches in my area are micros so all the finder could do was sign a logbook. In the one regular cache I found, I found some useful items, like a small screwdriver set and a glasses repair kit, but I took nothing but left a travelbug, which has already found it's way from Louisiana to Georgia.

 

Geocaching isn't about loot, it's about getting outdoors and using technology and our brains to find caches, and the finding is the real reward, not whatever is in the cache.

 

Just my opinion.

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Quote Cache Heads<> If there must be weapons in your caches, then I agree-- Geocaching.com is not the right place for you. Finding an alternative listing site that suits you is a much better idea than fighting to change a site that doesn't. End Quote<>

 

I am very sorry but it isbecause of attitudes like yours that we have stupid rules to protect people from themselves,i assume you just had to use the word WEAPON, which a 2 inch belt buckle knife in not ..it is infact a collectors item ...rolls eyes...

 

Idaho Clovisdude,

 

GC.com isn't the government. It's a BUSINESS that must protect its own interests.

 

You are going to find that crusading for change to happen in most businesses and having only one foot in the door to stand on will be met with at best apathy and at most the door smacking your behind as you are shown out.

 

I don't agree with every rule and guideline here and I don't disagree with everything you've said, but I've at least been around long enough to know where to stand fast in my belief that a change is in order and when I'm pounding my head on the concrete.

 

By my measure, you need an asprin or two. IMO :blink:

Edited by Snoogans
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I'd like to throw in m 2 cents.

 

I thought Geocaching was about the challenge of looking for and finding caches using our GPS units and our wits, not about finding treasures. In my opinion, the finding itself is supposed to be the reward. Getting outside and hiking around and having fun is also supposed to be part of it. Geocaching is in my opinion, a great way to combine the great outdoors with high technology.

 

As for trading, sometimes if it's a themed cache, I might buy a small item that fits the cache theme. Some examples I can think of are when I went after a cache with a theme of peppers, I found a small refrigerator magnet that looked like a pepper to put in it. It was only a buck, but it fit the theme. When I do leave something behind, I will try to keep with the theme of the cache if possible.

 

The last time I did some caching, it seemed like most of the caches I was going after were micros. Seems like most of the new caches in my area are micros so all the finder could do was sign a logbook. In the one regular cache I found, I found some useful items, like a small screwdriver set and a glasses repair kit, but I took nothing but left a travelbug, which has already found it's way from Louisiana to Georgia.

 

Geocaching isn't about loot, it's about getting outdoors and using technology and our brains to find caches, and the finding is the real reward, not whatever is in the cache.

 

Just my opinion.

 

I do not disagree with your post at all but what geocaching is to you and what it is to me are two different things i agree i love the hunt but to be truthfull at 98% of the caches i can find them without a GPS just read the discription and follow the trail to the cache anyone with any woods skills will notice one sticking out like a sore thumb..but that is just me that does not mean everyone should try to do it that way... also i loath Micros,again just me.

 

So i hike where few people go and i put caches where few people will find them,but when they do i like to say job well done and reward their effort with something nice.In this paticular cache since it is in a very well know hunting area i wanted to put the collector beltbuckle knife in..ok i took it out to follow the rules,it does not mean i agree with the rule or that i will just say to heck with it and not do my best to have it changed or in someway accomodate adult item caches. you want to get good? leave the GPS at home and go hunting for them...i agree it is not about the loot it is about the effort put forth (for me) and i like to reward people for a good effort not insult them with a kids toy...

 

Snoogansdude...maybe you just give up to easy...anything worth having is worth working for ...they may not be the goverment ,but they are setting the playing field and if they are indeed a business set up to make money off us then they better listen to their customers...seriously how hard would it be parents are the ones who take their kids geocaching so how hard would it be to have a checkbox one for adult items and one for family really how hard is that?

Edited by Idaho_Clovisman
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I'd like to throw in m 2 cents.

 

I thought Geocaching was about the challenge of looking for and finding caches using our GPS units and our wits, not about finding treasures. In my opinion, the finding itself is supposed to be the reward. Getting outside and hiking around and having fun is also supposed to be part of it. Geocaching is in my opinion, a great way to combine the great outdoors with high technology.

 

As for trading, sometimes if it's a themed cache, I might buy a small item that fits the cache theme. Some examples I can think of are when I went after a cache with a theme of peppers, I found a small refrigerator magnet that looked like a pepper to put in it. It was only a buck, but it fit the theme. When I do leave something behind, I will try to keep with the theme of the cache if possible.

 

The last time I did some caching, it seemed like most of the caches I was going after were micros. Seems like most of the new caches in my area are micros so all the finder could do was sign a logbook. In the one regular cache I found, I found some useful items, like a small screwdriver set and a glasses repair kit, but I took nothing but left a travelbug, which has already found it's way from Louisiana to Georgia.

 

Geocaching isn't about loot, it's about getting outdoors and using technology and our brains to find caches, and the finding is the real reward, not whatever is in the cache.

 

Just my opinion.

 

When I was almost drifting off to sleep...the voice of reason shouted "Geocaching isn't about loot!" and the world was good.

 

Cheese and Crackers...I don't shop at fancy places or buy in bulk unless it's geocaching patches (they're really cool *and* cheap.) I DO shop at Wal-Mart though. I work there and I get good deals. If you don't like the Wally World crap, it's clearly marked, so don't take it. I refuse to go out of my way to buy "nice" things because of what has been stated here and other threads. Say I buy a $5.00 item, and place it in a cache that I own. The finder (an honest one) likes the item and trades "up" for a $6.00 item that he has been carrying. Where will this all end if all if the so called "honest" cachers do what is expected? It's a good theory, but not one that can be executed at all times. Before you know it, *everyone* will be signing the log TNLN, because they have nothing of equal value. I never carry more than a $1.00 item but I won't take a $5.00 item either. This is where I'll state TNLNSL. TFTC. Take the value of the item you are placing in the cache with care. If there is nothing in the cache affordable to take, leave it. Personally, I still try to leave something...even if it's from the dreaded Wally World or General Dollar store.

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Quote sBell 111<> You know, that guideline was not put in just to protect the children of geocachers.end Quote<>

 

would you care to elaborate on who else it was put into place to protect?

It was put in place to protect the game.

 

It was a long time ago and I'm fuzzy on the details, but as I recall, there was a park system (I think it was in Georgia) that used inmates to do maintenance. There was a concern that na inmate would happen upon a cache and find a knife. The inmate could then use the knife for badness. This resulted in the parks deciding that geocaching was not appropriate.

 

By forbidding knives, we (hopefully) got to keep playing our game in their parks.

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Quote sBell 111<> You know, that guideline was not put in just to protect the children of geocachers.end Quote<>

 

would you care to elaborate on who else it was put into place to protect?

It was put in place to protect the game.

 

It was a long time ago and I'm fuzzy on the details, but as I recall, there was a park system (I think it was in Georgia) that used inmates to do maintenance. There was a concern that na inmate would happen upon a cache and find a knife. The inmate could then use the knife for badness. This resulted in the parks deciding that geocaching was not appropriate.

 

By forbidding knives, we (hopefully) got to keep playing our game in their parks.

 

Wouldn't that inmate be using a shovel or rake anyway? Those are pretty dangerous weapons.

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Quote sBell 111<> You know, that guideline was not put in just to protect the children of geocachers.end Quote<>

 

would you care to elaborate on who else it was put into place to protect?

It was put in place to protect the game.

 

It was a long time ago and I'm fuzzy on the details, but as I recall, there was a park system (I think it was in Georgia) that used inmates to do maintenance. There was a concern that na inmate would happen upon a cache and find a knife. The inmate could then use the knife for badness. This resulted in the parks deciding that geocaching was not appropriate.

 

By forbidding knives, we (hopefully) got to keep playing our game in their parks.

 

Wouldn't that inmate be using a shovel or rake anyway? Those are pretty dangerous weapons.

 

But have you ever tried shoving a shovel "up there" to sneak it into prison? Me neither, but I imagine it's not as comfortable as a folded pocketknife would be. Regardless, weapons are a bad idea, and there's really no reason to have them in caches. Are people really that hard up for a $5 pocketknife that they feel they must be able to get them out of caches?

Edited by ThePropers
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Quote sBell 111<> You know, that guideline was not put in just to protect the children of geocachers.end Quote<>

 

would you care to elaborate on who else it was put into place to protect?

It was put in place to protect the game.

 

It was a long time ago and I'm fuzzy on the details, but as I recall, there was a park system (I think it was in Georgia) that used inmates to do maintenance. There was a concern that na inmate would happen upon a cache and find a knife. The inmate could then use the knife for badness. This resulted in the parks deciding that geocaching was not appropriate.

 

By forbidding knives, we (hopefully) got to keep playing our game in their parks.

 

Wouldn't that inmate be using a shovel or rake anyway? Those are pretty dangerous weapons.

 

But have you ever tried shoving a shovel "up there" to sneak it into prison? Me neither, but I imagine it's not as comfortable as a folded pocketknife would be. Regardless, weapons are a bad idea, and there's really no reason to have them in caches. Are people really that hard up for a $5 pocketknife that they feel they must be able to get them out of caches?

 

That is some of the biggest load of Crap i have ever heard and does not in any way shape of form apply to Idaho's wilderness areas in fact it is just plain stupid..to use that line of reasoning then if someone hunted in the same parks or forest and then they could leave a gun or dynamite for a prisoner to find and then he could really wreck Havoc...plain stupid IMO

 

and i did not put a 5.00 knifei n my cache the one i took out of the cache is valued at over 100.00 dollars...this drivel is just more of the attitude of non hunters and flower lovers ,and tree huggers,(no offence meant to you personely) it is like a virus..People who have no clue about something then fear it and in doing so ruin it for everyone...

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That is some of the biggest load of Crap i have ever heard and does not in any way shape of form apply to Idaho's wilderness areas in fact it is just plain stupid..to use that line of reasoning then if someone hunted in the same parks or forest and then they could leave a gun or dynamite for a prisoner to find and then he could really wreck Havoc...plain stupid IMO

 

Of course you aren't going to find Idaho inmates up in the wilderness, accidentally finding your cache. The rule applies to all areas. A big portion of geocaching guidelines were created to appease and assure the land managers of the East and North East areas.

 

The issues aren't the same for the wide open west where you and I live. That being said, the rules are the same, regardless where the cache was left. Be thankful that you don't live in a state where a permit is required to hide a cache on managed land.

 

 

and i did not put a 5.00 knifei n my cache the one i took out of the cache is valued at over 100.00 dollars...this drivel is just more of the attitude of non hunters and flower lovers ,and tree huggers,(no offence meant to you personely) it is like a virus..People who have no clue about something then fear it and in doing so ruin it for everyone...

 

I'm a hunter, fisherman, and avid outdoorsman, and comments like that do nothing to further our cause. I might not agree with every policy regarding cache placement, but I follow them nonetheless.

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That is some of the biggest load of Crap i have ever heard and does not in any way shape of form apply to Idaho's wilderness areas in fact it is just plain stupid..to use that line of reasoning then if someone hunted in the same parks or forest and then they could leave a gun or dynamite for a prisoner to find and then he could really wreck Havoc...plain stupid IMO

 

Of course you aren't going to find Idaho inmates up in the wilderness, accidentally finding your cache. The rule applies to all areas. A big portion of geocaching guidelines were created to appease and assure the land managers of the East and North East areas.

 

The issues aren't the same for the wide open west where you and I live. That being said, the rules are the same, regardless where the cache was left. Be thankful that you don't live in a state where a permit is required to hide a cache on managed land.

 

 

and i did not put a 5.00 knifei n my cache the one i took out of the cache is valued at over 100.00 dollars...this drivel is just more of the attitude of non hunters and flower lovers ,and tree huggers,(no offence meant to you personely) it is like a virus..People who have no clue about something then fear it and in doing so ruin it for everyone...

 

I'm a hunter, fisherman, and avid outdoorsman, and comments like that do nothing to further our cause. I might not agree with every policy regarding cache placement, but I follow them nonetheless.

 

I agree with you, that sort of statement does not further our cause but really i am just stating the truth,how else does one call it .As you so well pointed out we here in the west are goverened by rules that have absolutly nothing to do with where we live, now just how is that not the attitude of people with lets say a softer outlook on life? i am sorry the more i find out about geo caching the more it looks like a front for anti hunting and conservetive attitudes.

 

So that i am sure i am understanding this right ,because the north east has less public lands we here in the west our goverened by the rules that they have to live by? how in the world is that fair? Texas has less than 3 % public lands where are caches put in texas? i give up you can have it ...

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That is some of the biggest load of Crap i have ever heard and does not in any way shape of form apply to Idaho's wilderness areas in fact it is just plain stupid..to use that line of reasoning then if someone hunted in the same parks or forest and then they could leave a gun or dynamite for a prisoner to find and then he could really wreck Havoc...plain stupid IMO

 

Of course you aren't going to find Idaho inmates up in the wilderness, accidentally finding your cache. The rule applies to all areas. A big portion of geocaching guidelines were created to appease and assure the land managers of the East and North East areas.

 

The issues aren't the same for the wide open west where you and I live. That being said, the rules are the same, regardless where the cache was left. Be thankful that you don't live in a state where a permit is required to hide a cache on managed land.

 

 

and i did not put a 5.00 knifei n my cache the one i took out of the cache is valued at over 100.00 dollars...this drivel is just more of the attitude of non hunters and flower lovers ,and tree huggers,(no offence meant to you personely) it is like a virus..People who have no clue about something then fear it and in doing so ruin it for everyone...

 

I'm a hunter, fisherman, and avid outdoorsman, and comments like that do nothing to further our cause. I might not agree with every policy regarding cache placement, but I follow them nonetheless.

 

I agree with you, that sort of statement does not further our cause but really i am just stating the truth,how else does one call it .As you so well pointed out we here in the west are goverened by rules that have absolutly nothing to do with where we live, now just how is that not the attitude of people with lets say a softer outlook on life? i am sorry the more i find out about geo caching the more it looks like a front for anti hunting and conservetive attitudes.

 

So that i am sure i am understanding this right ,because the north east has less public lands we here in the west our goverened by the rules that they have to live by? how in the world is that fair? Texas has less than 3 % public lands where are caches put in texas? i give up you can have it ...

 

Simply because they (Texans) all have this idea in theirmind that they have to buy all of Colorado to make up for this loss of public land.

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That is some of the biggest load of Crap i have ever heard and does not in any way shape of form apply to Idaho's wilderness areas in fact it is just plain stupid..to use that line of reasoning then if someone hunted in the same parks or forest and then they could leave a gun or dynamite for a prisoner to find and then he could really wreck Havoc...plain stupid IMO
I assume that if hunters were in the habit of leaving their weapons in the woods, the land managers would have something to say about it. I don't see what this has to do with geocaching.
and i did not put a 5.00 knifei n my cache the one i took out of the cache is valued at over 100.00 dollars...this drivel is just more of the attitude of non hunters and flower lovers ,and tree huggers,(no offence meant to you personely) it is like a virus..People who have no clue about something then fear it and in doing so ruin it for everyone...
I don't get how you arrived at the conclusion that the rule was made by 'non hunters and flower lovers ,and tree huggers'. It was a practical decision based on the desires of land managers. Since knives have nothing to do with the actual game of geocaching, what's the big deal if they are not traded in caches?
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I agree with you, that sort of statement does not further our cause but really i am just stating the truth,how else does one call it .As you so well pointed out we here in the west are goverened by rules that have absolutly nothing to do with where we live, now just how is that not the attitude of people with lets say a softer outlook on life? i am sorry the more i find out about geo caching the more it looks like a front for anti hunting and conservetive attitudes.

 

Geocaching appeals to a broad group, Christians, Atheists, Heterosexuals, Homosexuals, Conservatives, Liberals. I leave politics, and religion out when I go caching. I do it for the fun, and play the game, in the manner that makes me happy. I also abide by the rules, whether I agree with them or not. I too would have loved to place a survival type cache, with items useful to the outdoorsman, but a good portion of these items are "off limits," so I skipped the idea.

 

Geocaching is actually a shunned activity by the extreme environmentalist, because they view the increased traffic in "wild areas" as detrimental. They don't want people tromping through the forest in search of "treasure."

 

Make the best out of this activity, work within the rules, and have a great day.

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I agree with you, that sort of statement does not further our cause but really i am just stating the truth,how else does one call it .As you so well pointed out we here in the west are goverened by rules that have absolutly nothing to do with where we live, now just how is that not the attitude of people with lets say a softer outlook on life? i am sorry the more i find out about geo caching the more it looks like a front for anti hunting and conservetive attitudes.

 

Geocaching appeals to a broad group, Christians, Atheists, Heterosexuals, Homosexuals, Conservatives, Liberals. I leave politics, and religion out when I go caching. I do it for the fun, and play the game, in the manner that makes me happy. I also abide by the rules, whether I agree with them or not. I too would have loved to place a survival type cache, with items useful to the outdoorsman, but a good portion of these items are "off limits," so I skipped the idea.

 

Geocaching is actually a shunned activity by the extreme environmentalist, because they view the increased traffic in "wild areas" as detrimental. They don't want people tromping through the forest in search of "treasure."

 

Make the best out of this activity, work within the rules, and have a great day.

 

Like a good friend of mine used to say (he passed away from cancer) a true environmentalist would comit suicide because the very gas he passes from eating polutes the planet...i just can not believe that people reading this thread just do not get it...the knife in question was not placed in a survival cache,it was placed in a traditional cache as a reward to the person who was FTF,since it was in a good hunting area it would have been a nice addition to someones collection...

 

Some one please explain to me what the heck a land manager is....we the people are the land managers we all equally own the Forest Servive, BLM,and all public lands..i am seriously not familiar with the term land manager....if we are talking about someone who manages private land then it is even more absurd that there are not rules in plave that apply to different parts of this country,certainly anyone can see that what applies in Texas ,or north Carolina ,or New york does not apply in Idaho Montana utah,etc...

 

Sbell111 says Quote<> I don't get how you arrived at the conclusion that the rule was made by 'non hunters and flower lovers ,and tree huggers'. It was a practical decision based on the desires of land managers. Since knives have nothing to do with the actual game of geocaching, what's the big deal if they are not traded in caches?

 

<><> a knife has about as muchto do with the game as a broken toy car or a used sticker or gumby doll that is NOTHING! it is simply a thing left in a cache like any other. and this practical decision you speak of what land managers in the west voted for a set of rules like this ?? please name them or were all the rules made by people who do not live in the west?

Edited by Idaho_Clovisman
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The words 'dead horse' keep springing to mind here. Let it go...

 

Word to ya mutha! :laughing::rolleyes:

 

I don't agree with every rule and guideline here and I don't disagree with everything you've said, but I've at least been around long enough to know where to stand fast in my belief that a change is in order and when I'm pounding my head on the concrete.

 

By my measure, you need an asprin or two. IMO :lol:

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Since this thread has degenerated into senseless political babble and will probably soon be locked, it seems like a perfect time to test out my new smiley Firefox extension! (all smilies will be fairly tasteful and relevant to the quoted post, in adherence to forum guidelines)

 

a true environmentalist would comit suicide because the very gas he passes from eating polutes the planet...
clever6613.gif

 

i just can not believe that people reading this thread just do not get it...the knife in question was not placed in a survival cache,it was placed in a traditional cache as a reward to the person who was FTF,since it was in a good hunting area it would have been a nice addition to someones collection...
beathorse.gifdeadhorse.gifdeadhorse.gif1beb8b2ae6d61633f35d740313c6c610.gif

 

 

Some one please explain to me what the heck a land manager is....
jawdrop7rg.gif

 

we the people are the land managers we all equally own the Forest Servive, BLM,and all public lands..i am seriously not familiar with the term land manager....if we are talking about someone who manages private land then it is even more absurd that there are not rules in plave that apply to different parts of this country,certainly anyone can see that what applies in Texas ,or north Carolina ,or New york does not apply in Idaho Montana utah,etc...
h9yboredom.gificon_rolleyes.gifi7pfrusty.gif

 

And finally.... locked2.gif

Edited by Cache Heads
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Ok i am the bad guy yet cache heads you post nothing but flame bait instead of addressing the points i ask about ..why are my questions so amusing ,Oh you live in SOcal..ok you have alot of Forest service and BLM ground there do you have land managers?and snoogans does the armpit have them??sioneva do you have them in OH sorry you did not post where you live ok do they have them there..? Hmmmmm all primium members and they have nothing to tell the new guy...interesting...in all seriousness i have yet to see but a handfull post in this thread something with substance besides complaining about my complaint...come on and i am the bad guy ?/right.

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Ok i am the bad guy yet cache heads you post nothing but flame bait instead of addressing the points i ask about ..why are my questions so amusing ,Oh you live in SOcal..ok you have alot of Forest service and BLM ground there do you have land managers?and snoogans does the armpit have them??sioneva do you have them in OH sorry you did not post where you live ok do they have them there..? Hmmmmm all primium members and they have nothing to tell the new guy...interesting...in all seriousness i have yet to see but a handfull post in this thread something with substance besides complaining about my complaint...come on and i am the bad guy ?/right.

I don't think you're a bad guy.... I just disagree with you. I did answer your argument 40 posts ago, and the others have too... don't get so upset. We just don't know what else to say to you! Nobody agrees with you on this point. So, if you are going to keep hammering in on the same argument, after everyone has given you valid answers, we're going to tell you that you're beating a dead horse (admittedly, I may have used one too many smilies... :laughing: ). Like the others said... just give it up. Either you like caching or you don't, but if you do you are going to have to live with the fact that weapons just aren't allowed.

 

How about putting a gift certificate to a hunting store in your cache? That would be cool... and within the guidelines.

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Ok i am the bad guy yet cache heads you post nothing but flame bait instead of addressing the points i ask about ..why are my questions so amusing ,Oh you live in SOcal..ok you have alot of Forest service and BLM ground there do you have land managers?and snoogans does the armpit have them??sioneva do you have them in OH sorry you did not post where you live ok do they have them there..? Hmmmmm all primium members and they have nothing to tell the new guy...interesting...in all seriousness i have yet to see but a handfull post in this thread something with substance besides complaining about my complaint...come on and i am the bad guy ?/right.

If I had an attitude like that, I wouldn't be too shocked if I got more than a few snide retorts.

 

How about putting a gift certificate to a hunting store in your cache? That would be cool... and within the guidelines.

Or heck, how about a certificate for the FTF to redeem the knife directly through the cache owner? There are easy workarounds that don't involve violating the cache listing guidelines. I don't agree with every rule on this site, but if I want to play in this sandbox, I have to follow each and every one of them...not just the ones I like.

 

I've met many of the land managers the OP seems quite eager to deprecate, and I can assure you that the listing rules are what keeps many of these guys from saying "no" to geocaches on their lands. If given the choice between either 1) allowing you to hide a knife in a cache or 2) my local forest officials banning geocaching, I think it's pretty obvious what my decision would be.

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Ok i am the bad guy yet cache heads you post nothing but flame bait instead of addressing the points i ask about ..why are my questions so amusing ,Oh you live in SOcal..ok you have alot of Forest service and BLM ground there do you have land managers?and snoogans does the armpit have them??sioneva do you have them in OH sorry you did not post where you live ok do they have them there..? Hmmmmm all primium members and they have nothing to tell the new guy...interesting...in all seriousness i have yet to see but a handfull post in this thread something with substance besides complaining about my complaint...come on and i am the bad guy ?/right.

If I had an attitude like that, I wouldn't be too shocked if I got more than a few snide retorts.

 

How about putting a gift certificate to a hunting store in your cache? That would be cool... and within the guidelines.

Or heck, how about a certificate for the FTF to redeem the knife directly through the cache owner? There are easy workarounds that don't involve violating the cache listing guidelines. I don't agree with every rule on this site, but if I want to play in this sandbox, I have to follow each and every one of them...not just the ones I like.

 

I've met many of the land managers the OP seems quite eager to deprecate, and I can assure you that the listing rules are what keeps many of these guys from saying "no" to geocaches on their lands. If given the choice between either 1) allowing you to hide a knife in a cache or 2) my local forest officials banning geocaching, I think it's pretty obvious what my decision would be.

 

My last cache I just placed had three certificates for 1,2,3 finders in it. They had to email certificates numbers to redeem them and I would mail the prize to them. I agree that it is sometimes disappointing to get to a cache somewhere and find junk in it. This is why I made sure mine was not going to be a junk cache. I plan on removing the junk if any and replacing the swag every so often. I probably spent $60 on all the bonus prizes and to stock the box. I also placed in the logbook a no junk sticker. Hopefully people will not place junk in the box.

 

Storm180

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do you have land managers?and snoogans does the armpit have them??

 

Hmmmmm all primium members and they have nothing to tell the new guy...interesting...in all seriousness i have yet to see but a handfull post in this thread something with substance besides complaining about my complaint...come on and i am the bad guy ?/right.

 

We have plenty of land managers here in the pit. They are called; The Missouri City Parks Dept., The Sugarland Parks Dept., The Alvin Parks Dept., The Clear Lake City Parks Dept., etc. Various title companies have vacant land holdings that can grant permission for geocaching too. One of my BEST caches is on PRIVATE land with the permission of the land owner.

 

we the people are the land managers we all equally own the Forest Servive, BLM,and all public lands..

 

Hyaaaa, ummmm, NOPE. Would that it were so simple.

 

As for BLM land, there is an official geocaching policy. (link somebody) Quite a few of my caches are on BLM land.

 

Try camping in one spot on BLM land for longer than a month. The person or persons who come check your fire permit and tell ya to move on down the road after a month..... Those people (FS usually) could also be called land managers.

 

Try giving a Forest Service Official an order next time you see one. You'll find out very quickly that you don't own the FS. You just pay the taxes that make the FS possible.

Edited by Snoogans
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we the people are the land managers we all equally own the Forest Servive, BLM,and all public lands..

 

Hyaaaa, ummmm, NOPE. Would that it were so simple.

 

As for BLM land, there is an official geocaching policy. (link somebody) Quite a few of my caches are on BLM land.

 

Try camping in one spot on BLM land for longer than a month. The person or persons who come check your fire permit and tell ya to move on down the road after a month..... Those people (FS usually) could also be called land managers.

 

Try giving a Forest Service Official an order next time you see one. You'll find out very quickly that you don't own the FS. You just pay the taxes that make the FS possible.

 

Oh wow, I think this is the first time I've had to strongly disagree with you Snoogans. He's right on this one. The people own these lands. The people's money pays for them. Of course we also pay for their maintenance and caretakers as well as pay the people who set the rules according to our wishes. We pay to have those rules set to protect us as well as serve us. You can give a Forestry Service Official an order by using the proper channels. You do own the FS, you just don't own the individual right to have things your own way. If you have a strong feeling that a rule needs to change and can convince others, you can use the proper channels to "have it your way". I don't like a police officer handing me a ticket, but I do pay him to protect me even if it's from myself. :laughing:

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When I look for them its the challenge of the hide, some place that has a nice hike and or view. I'm not the least bit interested in what is in a cache, its the location that counts.

 

For my hides they get loaded up for the initial placement, then after that its what ever is in the cache, So if they trade down or trade up I don't care, they found the cache. And beleive me some of them are not easy to find so the quality of trade items does stay fairly stable.

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we the people are the land managers we all equally own the Forest Servive, BLM,and all public lands..

 

Hyaaaa, ummmm, NOPE. Would that it were so simple.

 

As for BLM land, there is an official geocaching policy. (link somebody) Quite a few of my caches are on BLM land.

 

Try camping in one spot on BLM land for longer than a month. The person or persons who come check your fire permit and tell ya to move on down the road after a month..... Those people (FS usually) could also be called land managers.

 

Try giving a Forest Service Official an order next time you see one. You'll find out very quickly that you don't own the FS. You just pay the taxes that make the FS possible.

 

Oh wow, I think this is the first time I've had to strongly disagree with you Snoogans. He's right on this one. The people own these lands. The people's money pays for them. Of course we also pay for their maintenance and caretakers as well as pay the people who set the rules according to our wishes. We pay to have those rules set to protect us as well as serve us. You can give a Forestry Service Official an order by using the proper channels. You do own the FS, you just don't own the individual right to have things your own way. If you have a strong feeling that a rule needs to change and can convince others, you can use the proper channels to "have it your way". I don't like a police officer handing me a ticket, but I do pay him to protect me even if it's from myself. :laughing:

 

My point was that just because we pay taxes, it doesn't mean we can do as we please. We are on the same page.

 

I think the perceived idea of ownership is a bit too literal on IC's part.

 

BUT, as I stated earlier in the thread and others have pointed out, GC.com isn't a government institution. We have no real rights here. You follow the rules or you go elsewhere unless there is a mass call for change. I don't see too many folks beating the same drum as IC. All I see is a bloody forehead and some red stained concrete.

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we the people are the land managers we all equally own the Forest Servive, BLM,and all public lands..

 

Hyaaaa, ummmm, NOPE. Would that it were so simple.

 

As for BLM land, there is an official geocaching policy. (link somebody) Quite a few of my caches are on BLM land.

 

Try camping in one spot on BLM land for longer than a month. The person or persons who come check your fire permit and tell ya to move on down the road after a month..... Those people (FS usually) could also be called land managers.

 

Try giving a Forest Service Official an order next time you see one. You'll find out very quickly that you don't own the FS. You just pay the taxes that make the FS possible.

 

Oh wow, I think this is the first time I've had to strongly disagree with you Snoogans. He's right on this one. The people own these lands. The people's money pays for them. Of course we also pay for their maintenance and caretakers as well as pay the people who set the rules according to our wishes. We pay to have those rules set to protect us as well as serve us. You can give a Forestry Service Official an order by using the proper channels. You do own the FS, you just don't own the individual right to have things your own way. If you have a strong feeling that a rule needs to change and can convince others, you can use the proper channels to "have it your way". I don't like a police officer handing me a ticket, but I do pay him to protect me even if it's from myself. :D

 

Thank you one and all for very good posts about the subject the above 5 or six posts are more like it i am not a troll and i am not looking for a flamewar..thank you for posting like adults...Fox is correct we the people own the forest service the BLM the DNR and we are the ones who set the goals and services in those divisions by our voting if you have a forest service offical who is lets say creating his own agenda call your senator and congressman believe me things will change it is done all the time in Idaho.Outdoor sports and recreation is idaho.The west is a lot different place than Mossouri or Arkansas or texas.. as a example you can carry a loaded gun in this state in your vehicle now maybe that works here but it would not work in say New York or los angeles,the point is one set of rules for a multi continent game is not very good planning.

 

The point is i do not want weapons in caches i do not want drugs or porn in caches,But there are times when something is not exactly what a rule says it is and this was one of them.I posted in my cache discription exactly what it was a Beltbuckle that also was a knife .a collectors novelty not something someone would cut rope with.Also no kids would be at this cache site without a adults supervision,also clearly stated in the cache discription...still it was not allowed..ok fine i pulled it and i am going to pull the cache as well..the rules you folks play by are way to strict,and the post is about cachers being responsible,if you just want to pass the buck and say follow the rules or else then you are not taking being responsible seriously,you are just leting someone else run your life for you so that you do not have to...that may be ok for you but it is not for me there are other options in the caching world and i will explore them because i am responsible for my actions and i take what i do seriously. You know what happens when you do nothing? Nothing! stand up be accountable for something no matter what it is get off your duff and be accountable.thanks and peace to all of you i will not bother you any more.

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IC, perception is everything in this game.

 

Picture this: Groundspeak says "Okay, knives are banned in caches except in Idaho." When my local parks department hears about geocaching and goes to the website, what they'll read is "Weapons are allowed in geocaches!" Won't go over well, but could be solved after lengthy explanations.

 

But then, after I finally convince our park ranger he has nothing to worry about, let's say our caching friend "IdahoJoe" goes on vacation and finds a few caches while he's in town. Since knives are okay in caches in Idaho, he assumes they're okay in California, and leaves a few cool knives in some local caches.

 

So when my local park ranger hears about this, how do I refute his argument that geocaching is dangerous and should not be permitted in his park system?

 

Likely? Maybe not, but certainly possible. And geocaching nearly got banned entirely in South Carolina because of the perception that geocachers were disturbing grave markers and damaging historical sites, based on even less plausible theoretical scenarios. Government officials--and ESPECIALLY lawmakers--will use any opportunity to distort the truth in their favor. Why give them more reason?

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IC, perception is everything in this game.

 

Picture this: Groundspeak says "Okay, knives are banned in caches except in Idaho." When my local parks department hears about geocaching and goes to the website, what they'll read is "Weapons are allowed in geocaches!" Won't go over well, but could be solved after lengthy explanations.

 

But then, after I finally convince our park ranger he has nothing to worry about, let's say our caching friend "IdahoJoe" goes on vacation and finds a few caches while he's in town. Since knives are okay in caches in Idaho, he assumes they're okay in California, and leaves a few cool knives in some local caches.

 

So when my local park ranger hears about this, how do I refute his argument that geocaching is dangerous and should not be permitted in his park system?

 

Likely? Maybe not, but certainly possible. And geocaching nearly got banned entirely in South Carolina because of the perception that geocachers were disturbing grave markers and damaging historical sites, based on even less plausible theoretical scenarios. Government officials--and ESPECIALLY lawmakers--will use any opportunity to distort the truth in their favor. Why give them more reason?

 

I never asked for idaho caches to have "Knives" there should be some way responsible people can act accordingly..we can make up senerio's forever well what if the sky fell and killed us all?? you know the point i am making you have to make the decision to be part of the solution or part of the problem...If you fear your lawmakers vote them out..they are supposed to be serving you ,you pay their salary..stand up and be counted or stand back and be led..it is all your choice.

On that note i think all bases and points of view have been covered remember i can not choose for you you have to do that part..thanks ..

 

Moderators Please close this thread thank you...

Edited by Idaho_Clovisman
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I think the basic point that I disagree with you on is that I believe that Groundspeak made a responsible decision in banning knives from caches, whereas you seem to feel that the responsible thing to do is for let each of us to decide for ourselves.

 

I don't believe that there is middle ground in this issue.

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I think the basic point that I disagree with you on is that I believe that Groundspeak made a responsible decision in banning knives from caches, whereas you seem to feel that the responsible thing to do is for let each of us to decide for ourselves.

 

I don't believe that there is middle ground in this issue.

 

Yeah, the gods forbid we have an open debate on a reasonable question or that any cacher be responsible for themselves and their actions. Why just last week I almost ran with a pair of scissors. I'm going to go sue the scissor company now for not putting a warning on them. :D I believe forums are here for just these kinds of questions. I think the basic point I disagree with you on is that we shouldn't accept responsibility for our actions, whereas you seem to feel the responsible thing to do is let Groundspeak make all your decisions for you (therby accepting liability for yours and anyone else's actions). I don't see why your opinion is more valid than his and as such there is no middle ground on this issue. If everything is so black and white, maybe an open forum isn't the best idea afterall. :D:D

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Yeah, the gods forbid we have an open debate on a reasonable question or that any cacher be responsible for themselves and their actions. Why just last week I almost ran with a pair of scissors. I'm going to go sue the scissor company now for not putting a warning on them. :D I believe forums are here for just these kinds of questions. I think the basic point I disagree with you on is that we shouldn't accept responsibility for our actions, whereas you seem to feel the responsible thing to do is let Groundspeak make all your decisions for you (therby accepting liability for yours and anyone else's actions). I don't see why your opinion is more valid than his and as such there is no middle ground on this issue. If everything is so black and white, maybe an open forum isn't the best idea afterall. :D:D

I think you misunderstand my position. I think I've been clear in my stated position over the years that we should all be responsible for ourselves. That position should not be mistaken for the belief that society does not need rules to protect itself from those that are not as responsible as you or I might be.

Edited by sbell111
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Yeah, the gods forbid we have an open debate on a reasonable question or that any cacher be responsible for themselves and their actions. Why just last week I almost ran with a pair of scissors. I'm going to go sue the scissor company now for not putting a warning on them. :D I believe forums are here for just these kinds of questions. I think the basic point I disagree with you on is that we shouldn't accept responsibility for our actions, whereas you seem to feel the responsible thing to do is let Groundspeak make all your decisions for you (therby accepting liability for yours and anyone else's actions). I don't see why your opinion is more valid than his and as such there is no middle ground on this issue. If everything is so black and white, maybe an open forum isn't the best idea afterall. :D:D

I think you misunderstand my position. I think I've been clear in my stated position over the years that we should all be responsible for ourselves. That position should not be mistaken for the belief that society does not need rules to protect itself from those that are not as responsible as you or I might be.

 

No attack on you SBell. I do know your stand from your well spoken assertions of the past, just poking fun at how we seem to draw such severe lines in the sand and say there's no room for debate in an open debate forum. The essential question being asked here, as I understand it, is how self-responsible should we be as cachers.

 

He stated that he no way advocated knives being thrown in any and all caches. He's talking about a gimmick for FTF in a hard to get to and out of the way cache. It's akin to saying that no blades of any kind are allowed in caches. That means of course we're restricted (like the airlines) to no scissors, nail clippers, etc., etc. While that's fine for the airlines, we're not exactly in a hijacking situation at 6000 feet on top of mountain. It's 99% likely that someone making it to the top of that hill is probably carrying just such an item when they get there. So he has asked for opinions in open debate on how we should handle special situations.

 

I don't think knives in a cache are a good idea. I do think knives, fuel, multi-tools, etc. are a very, very good idea at 6000ft up a mountain. So is there a middle ground that solves the problem? Probably, but not if we start by stating "there is no middleground". :D

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I don't think knives in a cache are a good idea. I do think knives, fuel, multi-tools, etc. are a very, very good idea at 6000ft up a mountain. So is there a middle ground that solves the problem? Probably, but not if we start by stating "there is no middleground". :D

The middle ground in your scenario is to do what you and I already do. Keep a multitool in our pack.

 

However, If his firm position is that we should not have a firm guideline against knives in caches, I don't believe that there is a middle ground with my belief that the guideline forbidding knives is good policy.

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I don't think knives in a cache are a good idea. I do think knives, fuel, multi-tools, etc. are a very, very good idea at 6000ft up a mountain. So is there a middle ground that solves the problem? Probably, but not if we start by stating "there is no middleground". :D

The middle ground in your scenario is to do what you and I already do. Keep a multitool in our pack.

 

However, If his firm position is that we should not have a firm guideline against knives in caches, I don't believe that there is a middle ground with my belief that the guideline forbidding knives is good policy.

 

Touche! :D

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IC, perception is everything in this game.

 

Picture this: Groundspeak says "Okay, knives are banned in caches except in Idaho." When my local parks department hears about geocaching and goes to the website, what they'll read is "Weapons are allowed in geocaches!" Won't go over well, but could be solved after lengthy explanations.

 

But then, after I finally convince our park ranger he has nothing to worry about, let's say our caching friend "IdahoJoe" goes on vacation and finds a few caches while he's in town. Since knives are okay in caches in Idaho, he assumes they're okay in California, and leaves a few cool knives in some local caches.

 

So when my local park ranger hears about this, how do I refute his argument that geocaching is dangerous and should not be permitted in his park system?

 

Likely? Maybe not, but certainly possible. And geocaching nearly got banned entirely in South Carolina because of the perception that geocachers were disturbing grave markers and damaging historical sites, based on even less plausible theoretical scenarios. Government officials--and ESPECIALLY lawmakers--will use any opportunity to distort the truth in their favor. Why give them more reason?

 

I never asked for idaho caches to have "Knives" there should be some way responsible people can act accordingly..we can make up senerio's forever well what if the sky fell and killed us all?? you know the point i am making you have to make the decision to be part of the solution or part of the problem...If you fear your lawmakers vote them out..they are supposed to be serving you ,you pay their salary..stand up and be counted or stand back and be led..it is all your choice.

On that note i think all bases and points of view have been covered remember i can not choose for you you have to do that part..thanks ..

 

Moderators Please close this thread thank you...

 

I assume I'm also either with the President or with the terrorists too, eh? Lovely rhetoric, but ultimately meaningless. Life ain't all black and white, and there are many other people in the process of establishing reasonable geocaching guidelines--most of whom I'm not in the position to "vote out" (as if my one vote is going to scream out among the millions of other voters anyhow) because I don't necessarily live in the same state/district/whatever (folks in my area are generally supportive of geocaching and aside from NPS lands, only a few specific state parks/national forests have formal policies regarding the game). Yeah, I don't support the guidelines for my own benefit. I support them for myself AND everyone else's ability to play the game.

 

You're fairly new to geocaching, so you might not be fully aware of the many years' worth of constant struggling between geocachers and skeptical land managers/legislators. Many of these have played out very publicly in these forums, but there have been many other more private battles that have had to be fought to retain the right to enjoy this game in our public lands. As with any sport/hobby, those who refuse to accept a few simple rules (IC, I'm not referring to you) make everyone who enjoys that sport/hobby look bad. As I already stated, the perception that people don't follow the rules is enough to accomplish that.

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IC, perception is everything in this game.

 

Picture this: Groundspeak says "Okay, knives are banned in caches except in Idaho." When my local parks department hears about geocaching and goes to the website, what they'll read is "Weapons are allowed in geocaches!" Won't go over well, but could be solved after lengthy explanations.

 

But then, after I finally convince our park ranger he has nothing to worry about, let's say our caching friend "IdahoJoe" goes on vacation and finds a few caches while he's in town. Since knives are okay in caches in Idaho, he assumes they're okay in California, and leaves a few cool knives in some local caches.

 

So when my local park ranger hears about this, how do I refute his argument that geocaching is dangerous and should not be permitted in his park system?

 

Likely? Maybe not, but certainly possible. And geocaching nearly got banned entirely in South Carolina because of the perception that geocachers were disturbing grave markers and damaging historical sites, based on even less plausible theoretical scenarios. Government officials--and ESPECIALLY lawmakers--will use any opportunity to distort the truth in their favor. Why give them more reason?

 

I never asked for idaho caches to have "Knives" there should be some way responsible people can act accordingly..we can make up senerio's forever well what if the sky fell and killed us all?? you know the point i am making you have to make the decision to be part of the solution or part of the problem...If you fear your lawmakers vote them out..they are supposed to be serving you ,you pay their salary..stand up and be counted or stand back and be led..it is all your choice.

On that note i think all bases and points of view have been covered remember i can not choose for you you have to do that part..thanks ..

 

Moderators Please close this thread thank you...

 

I assume I'm also either with the President or with the terrorists too, eh? Lovely rhetoric, but ultimately meaningless. Life ain't all black and white, and there are many other people in the process of establishing reasonable geocaching guidelines--most of whom I'm not in the position to "vote out" (as if my one vote is going to scream out among the millions of other voters anyhow) because I don't necessarily live in the same state/district/whatever (folks in my area are generally supportive of geocaching and aside from NPS lands, only a few specific state parks/national forests have formal policies regarding the game). Yeah, I don't support the guidelines for my own benefit. I support them for myself AND everyone else's ability to play the game.

 

You're fairly new to geocaching, so you might not be fully aware of the many years' worth of constant struggling between geocachers and skeptical land managers/legislators. Many of these have played out very publicly in these forums, but there have been many other more private battles that have had to be fought to retain the right to enjoy this game in our public lands. As with any sport/hobby, those who refuse to accept a few simple rules (IC, I'm not referring to you) make everyone who enjoys that sport/hobby look bad. As I already stated, the perception that people don't follow the rules is enough to accomplish that.

 

At least the thread is getting better....<> but ultimately meaningless. Life ain't all black and white,<> and in that statement you show how wrong you are Life is about black and white there is no grey area..people have made it a grey area in todays society by not taking part by letting someone else carry the tourch etc.etc.you either stand for something or you don't,also as you say <>(as if my one vote is going to scream out among the millions of other voters anyhow)<> typical of todays voters why vote my vote won't matter..Hmmmm well to bad you do not see things important enough to put the effort forth to get results....Geo caching .com is not a gov't institution but you can get their attention by not using their service ,by not purchasing their retail goods,and by asking others to do the same...one vote one person can make a huge difference.(i am not saying my complaint is worthy of such meathods) but tell me why in simple english a set of rules to protect those that can not protect themselves is a good thing? that is modern mans problem today he has passed the buck so long he has no idea how to get anything done or is to lazy.people back east have no idea what it is like to hike at 7000 ft and have a resonable chance of meeting a grizzly bear,black bear moose etc and they have no idea of what to do except be scared..yet they vote to ban guns,and now we responsible members of society have to pay for their nievity.SP...

 

I am sorry for the rant but people have to stand up and be counted(be responsible yes even Cachers) no matter what the cause..i just found it silly and funny that i could not put a simple item in a cache when the guy standing next to the cache is carrying a gun... :D peace

 

There is no better or worse, only different. The difference has to be respected whether it's skin color, way of life, or ideas. The Chumash have a story about this. It begins with a worm who is eaten by a bird. The bird is eaten by a cat whose self-satisfaction is disrupted by a mean-looking dog. After devouring the cat, the dog is killed by a grizzly bear who congratulates himself for being the strongest of all. About that time comes a man who kills the bear and climbs a mountain to proclaim his ultimate superiority. He ran so hard up the mountain that he died at the top. Before long the worm crawled out of his body.

 

Kote Kotah - Chumash

Edited by Idaho_Clovisman
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Unnhh IC, I really resent that statement that us easterners have no concept of what the great outdoors is like. Your vote works just the same as mine, carries the exact same weight with the elected officials of our gov't as mine so dont say that us easterners have made life in the midwest/west living hell for you.

And you are making a broad statement that does not apply to everyone who lives on the east coast, so I'd appreciate it if you keep that junk to yourself.

 

Geocaching is not just a sport in the USA, its also a sport in Europe & places like Australia who have much more stringent rules about any weapon then we here in the USA do. Try getting in the face of a British Bobby some day, they can make their sticks sing, or the German Polizi (Police) they will take your head off if you look at them crossly. I know from experience with both groups.

 

I understand your disappointment with the rules set up here, but there are reasons for those rules. You & I may not agree with them, or even like them but as we chose to be a part of this site we have to abide by them, if you dont like them so much do something then.. show your displeasure by leaving & see who else you can convince to leave also.

I'm gonna guess not to many people will leave GC.com over this matter.

 

As has been said, I dont know if you have seen it or not, or have chosen to ignore it. Put a note on your cache that the special buckle knife can be redeem by the FTF with a certificate number, or by some other means.

I've seen it done on other caches with questionable & even non-questionable material because the COwner wanted to make sure the FTF, STF & ThTF got them.

 

You dont like the rules in this sandbox, go make your own group (as others have) & make your own rules. But I sure as heck dont want my 11 yr old niece finding something in a box that could harm her, or any kid. And any parent can vouch that even watched kids can get in a hell of a lot of trouble, the hospital I used to work at can attest to that & I'm not even in a big city, just a small town.

 

Note: Spelling edit, couldnt spell 'may' right for some reason. Its fixed now.

Edited by DiS02
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