eTrex "Yellow" vs. Moisture

[Hapaki]

I am on my 3rd eTrex basic yellow, this one the "B' version. We hike twice/wk. at ~4000' where relative humidity is usually much lower than at our 640' location ~ 2 mile from the ocean. As I type this, in-room RH is 83%, kinda normal for a sunny day. We get a LOT of heavy rain @N19.71844, W155.11962.

 

Our gps's have and are now failing, apparently from moisture. Signal acquisition and retention are poor at specific locations where no probs in the immediate past. I think they are sucking/blowing air/mositure from the tiny vent hole in the back of the case. Setting the gps on top of the car to acquire is a mistake due to large temp variations over short periods. (Moisture condenses on the screen inner face when dewpoint is reached?)

 

Long story short...readings disappear or get erratic. I have a walking land speed record: 456mph in 1/2 mile.

 

Anyone tried drying their unit and then sealing that nasty vent? Suggestions?

 

I find putting a 'dry' unit in a small zip-lock helps. My big concern is trusting my gps when track-back is a real safety issue.

 

I have started a dialogue with Garmin support and will report back.

[+Red90]

I've never seen or heard of this. I had an etrex for 5 years and no problems. Lots of rough abuse, rain, snow whatever.

[Hapaki]

I've never seen or heard of this. I had an etrex for 5 years and no problems. Lots of rough abuse, rain, snow whatever.

Thank you.

 

Had a great train roundtrip through your area on the old Canadian Pacific and Canadian National in 1946..wild and beautiful then.

 

Was your eTrex used in fairly steady altitude/humidity/temp. conditions? What gps do you like now?

 

And your avatar looks like my beloved 67 Toy. Landcruiser that finally rusted to death here years ago.

 

Aloha,

Herb

[+Klatch]

I've never seen or heard of this. I had an etrex for 5 years and no problems. Lots of rough abuse, rain, snow whatever.

Thank you.

 

Had a great train roundtrip through your area on the old Canadian Pacific and Canadian National in 1946..wild and beautiful then.

 

Was your eTrex used in fairly steady altitude/humidity/temp. conditions? What gps do you like now?

 

And your avatar looks like my beloved 67 Toy. Landcruiser that finally rusted to death here years ago.

 

Aloha,

Herb

I have a blue Etrex Legend and after three or four years of use and abuse it never had any problems with condensation. I would say our weather in PA has more variability than in HI. I use a 76CS now and had it on Hawaii, Maui and Oahu this summer with no problems.

And I did SO crave a Defender 90 back in my younger days!

[Hapaki]

I have a blue Etrex Legend and after three or four years of use and abuse it never had any problems with condensation. I would say our weather in PA has more variability than in HI. I use a 76CS now and had it on Hawaii, Maui and Oahu this summer with no problems.

And I did SO crave a Defender 90 back in my younger days!

Agree with your overall longer term weather variability. Lived in Lewiston, NY, below Niagara Falls until 1946. Hated shoveling snow and coal and hauling ashes when I was a kid.

 

I think my trouble is the fast change going from sea level rain at 75*F at 7am to snow at 9am at 13000'+(worst case) and then letting the direct sun raise the gps temp too fast while I mess about getting ready to hike. I think I took the waterproofness too seriously. Underwater at 3' doesn't subject much pressure.

 

I also have a fancy hiking watch that's "waterproof" to a much greater (long forgotten) depth that wet it's face at 4000' sitting beside the gps on the suv roof in a cold rain. (I am a hopeless gadget nut...wanna buy some compasses?...backpacks?...headlamps? )

 

 

Aloha,

Herb

[+ThePropers]

I used a yellow for about 2 1/2 years with no problems. I'd leave it strapped to the shoulder strap of my backpack during rainstorms and even dropped it in a creek once. Never had any trouble with moisture.

Edited September 28, 2006 by ThePropers

[+Prime Suspect]

Your unit doesn't have an altimeter, so there's no "vent hole". I'm not sure what you're referring to.

 

Most likely, something has happened to compromise the unit's IPX7 level watertightness. What you're experiencing isn't normal.

[moonpup]

Anyone tried drying their unit and then sealing that nasty vent? Suggestions?

Can you post a picture of this so called vent hole?

[Tahawas]

Not the same thing, but my GPS IIIplus has been in the rain many times over many years, and submerged in salt water. No moisture or corrosion problem.

[Hapaki]

Your unit doesn't have an altimeter, so there's no "vent hole". I'm not sure what you're referring to.

 

Most likely, something has happened to compromise the unit's IPX7 level watertightness. What you're experiencing isn't normal.

Both the 'early' yellows and the later "B" versions (my newest one) do have a vent hole as the case is shared with the upscale version (forget the number) that has a barometric altimeter and electronic compass.

 

The hole is in the back center recessed yellow portion ~1/2" above the battery gatch.

 

Garmin Support suggested a drying oven followed by plugging the hole as it is not needed on the yellows. They also suggested a ziplok baggy, which I have been using and seems to help. I asked if the internals are somehow coated to prevent corrosion, shorting, etc. once humidity gets in. They suggested sending it back for factory service "as the battery will be degraded"...whatever that means.

 

At any rate, they said all their units are moisture resistant to 3' immersion for 30 min. Resistance to static immersion at 3' for 30 min. is far different than the affect of an almost 2 psi differential at almost 100% RH as you go from sea level to 4000' and return.

 

I always assumed the internals were actually sealed. The battery box is. The rest is really pretty well protected but not tight. Now that I know the possible affects, the ziplok will handle most cases. Sudden wet weather white-outs in dangerous volcanic areas? Hope they don't happen to me again. If I can't see the markers, I will have to sit down and wait it out.

 

I think the Garmins give the most bang for the bucks, so don't plan to change.

 

BTW, SPF lotions and OFF mosquito sprays will make the adhesive securing the black rubber 'button strap' around the case seam go gummy, and may cause the rubber to stretch. And will take baseplate lettering off Brunton and Silva compasses. And will surface damage '99 Toyota RAV4 steering wheels.

 

Thanks to you all. I'll be back if sumpin of interest occurs. I love gadgets..perhaps a dessicator.....

[+Prime Suspect]

Your unit doesn't have an altimeter, so there's no "vent hole". I'm not sure what you're referring to.

 

Most likely, something has happened to compromise the unit's IPX7 level watertightness. What you're experiencing isn't normal.

Both the 'early' yellows and the later "B" versions (my newest one) do have a vent hole as the case is shared with the upscale version (forget the number) that has a barometric altimeter and electronic compass.

Perhaps the back half of the shell is, but obviously not the entire shell. The Yellows have no click-stick.

 

The hole is in the back center recessed yellow portion ~1/2" above the battery gatch.

 

Garmin Support suggested a drying oven followed by plugging the hole as it is not needed on the yellows. They also suggested a ziplok baggy, which I have been using and seems to help. I asked if the internals are somehow coated to prevent corrosion, shorting, etc. once humidity gets in. They suggested sending it back for factory service "as the battery will be degraded"...whatever that means.

 

At any rate, they said all their units are moisture resistant to 3' immersion for 30 min. Resistance to static immersion at 3' for 30 min. is far different than the affect of an almost 2 psi differential at almost 100% RH as you go from sea level to 4000' and return.

 

I always assumed the internals were actually sealed. The battery box is. The rest is really pretty well protected but not tight. Now that I know the possible affects, the ziplok will handle most cases. Sudden wet weather white-outs in dangerous volcanic areas? Hope they don't happen to me again. If I can't see the markers, I will have to sit down and wait it out.

 

I think the Garmins give the most bang for the bucks, so don't plan to change.

 

BTW, SPF lotions and OFF mosquito sprays will make the adhesive securing the black rubber 'button strap' around the case seam go gummy, and may cause the rubber to stretch. And will take baseplate lettering off Brunton and Silva compasses. And will surface damage '99 Toyota RAV4 steering wheels.

 

Thanks to you all. I'll be back if sumpin of interest occurs. I love gadgets..perhaps a dessicator.....

The "vent hole" you're describing is the port for the barometric pressure sensor. Since your model doesn't have a barometric sensor, it should be sealed off. Even in the units that do have a barometric sensor, it's internally isolated from the rest of the unit. Water cannot go from the port to the screen, unless the unit has been compromised in some way.

[Hapaki]

Your unit doesn't have an altimeter, so there's no "vent hole". I'm not sure what you're referring to.

 

Most likely, something has happened to compromise the unit's IPX7 level watertightness. What you're experiencing isn't normal.

Both the 'early' yellows and the later "B" versions (my newest one) do have a vent hole as the case is shared with the upscale version (forget the number) that has a barometric altimeter and electronic compass.

Perhaps the back half of the shell is, but obviously not the entire shell. The Yellows have no click-stick.

 

The hole is in the back center recessed yellow portion ~1/2" above the battery gatch.

 

Garmin Support suggested a drying oven followed by plugging the hole as it is not needed on the yellows. They also suggested a ziplok baggy, which I have been using and seems to help. I asked if the internals are somehow coated to prevent corrosion, shorting, etc. once humidity gets in. They suggested sending it back for factory service "as the battery will be degraded"...whatever that means.

 

At any rate, they said all their units are moisture resistant to 3' immersion for 30 min. Resistance to static immersion at 3' for 30 min. is far different than the affect of an almost 2 psi differential at almost 100% RH as you go from sea level to 4000' and return.

 

I always assumed the internals were actually sealed. The battery box is. The rest is really pretty well protected but not tight. Now that I know the possible affects, the ziplok will handle most cases. Sudden wet weather white-outs in dangerous volcanic areas? Hope they don't happen to me again. If I can't see the markers, I will have to sit down and wait it out.

 

I think the Garmins give the most bang for the bucks, so don't plan to change.

 

BTW, SPF lotions and OFF mosquito sprays will make the adhesive securing the black rubber 'button strap' around the case seam go gummy, and may cause the rubber to stretch. And will take baseplate lettering off Brunton and Silva compasses. And will surface damage '99 Toyota RAV4 steering wheels.

 

Thanks to you all. I'll be back if sumpin of interest occurs. I love gadgets..perhaps a dessicator.....

The "vent hole" you're describing is the port for the barometric pressure sensor. Since your model doesn't have a barometric sensor, it should be sealed off. Even in the units that do have a barometric sensor, it's internally isolated from the rest of the unit. Water cannot go from the port to the screen, unless the unit has been compromised in some way.

Thanks, Prime Suspect

 

Just saying what the tech rep said to me. I now understand the "hole by any other name" is for the baro sensor. I did not know the rest of the unit was isolated.

 

I've had the black button band off my dead 4 year old one and the button seals are damaged, but I haven't opened the case.

 

I'm trying to get my head around what one looks like split open, and what isolation and protection materials/techniques Garmin uses. This will help me to better protect this one and my next one, and to safely dry it if it does get moistureized (my wife's term, not mine).

 

Would like any detail you can provide.

[+PDOP's]

Your unit doesn't have an altimeter, so there's no "vent hole". I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Even units without an altimeter have a vent to equalize pressure (or at least they did). (link)

 

Watertight also means airtight. When temperature and pressure changes act on a watertight (airtight) unit, pressure differentials develop. Undesired effects can occur, like the buttons being drawn down inside of the unit, or the lens over the display bowing out and potentially cracking.

 

During further process improvements, it became necessary to allow the unit to "vent", to prevent these undesired effects from occurring. To accomplish this "venting", we drilled a small (1mm) hole in the case of the unit and covered the hole with a hydrophobic membrane. This membrane allows air to pass but not water, resulting in a unit that is still waterproof, but one that can also equalize pressure differentials.

[Hapaki]

Your unit doesn't have an altimeter, so there's no "vent hole". I'm not sure what you're referring to.

Even units without an altimeter have a vent to equalize pressure (or at least they did). (link)

 

Watertight also means airtight. When temperature and pressure changes act on a watertight (airtight) unit, pressure differentials develop. Undesired effects can occur, like the buttons being drawn down inside of the unit, or the lens over the display bowing out and potentially cracking.

 

During further process improvements, it became necessary to allow the unit to "vent", to prevent these undesired effects from occurring. To accomplish this "venting", we drilled a small (1mm) hole in the case of the unit and covered the hole with a hydrophobic membrane. This membrane allows air to pass but not water, resulting in a unit that is still waterproof, but one that can also equalize pressure differentials.

Thanks, PDOP. Just what I was after...diferential effects on the GPS and the varying materials, and the membrane info. Instead of tightly sealing the vent, which I assumed was just an open hole, I'm going with a ziplok that is close in width and thickness to the GPS, but longer to better handle the differential in a somewhat protected zone.

 

Are/were you directly involved in the development? (unless you have a NDA tight-lip thingie, of course).

 

B'marked your site and will spend some time there...thanks for the link.

 

Aloha,

Herb

[+forcesofnature]

Just thought I'd say I have a yellow Garmin eTrex and as well as using it for geocaching I also use it as a speedometer whilst windsurfing so its waterproof qualities get plenty of testing. I usually put it inside a little aquapac bag when I'm windsuring, but that has split on several occassions so the unit has had a proper dunking. It also goes from the hot interior of my car where it often sits on the dashbard, straight into pretty cold temps, and so far there have been no problems.

 

I've had it about 2 years and so far no water has entered the case and it is working fine.... It even seems to take high-speed crashes in its stride, it certainly copes with some of them better than I do!!!

 

Al.

[240GL]

GPS units and moisture problems were discussed by canoers/kayakers at the paddling.net forum this summer, and quite a few were not happy with their eTrex units in this respect.

 

Erling.

[Hapaki]

Thanks, all.

 

And Erling, the paddling link was especially helpful. I'm sold on the plastic bag and looking for reuseable silica packs. And the explanation of what happens when a drop of water evaporates in a sealed bag or container...I have had it happen...how could I forget?...<slaps self on forehead>.

 

I may take my dead one apart like one of the paddlers did just to see whazzup. Maybe corrosion that can be mitigated. Nothing to lose as long as wife doesn't see me standing over it, sawzall at the ready.

 

Aloha,

Herb

[+hogrod]

I really liked my etrex legendC, until the one day I used it for about 6hours in a slight rain. the next day I noticed all the rubber around the unit was loose. I called garmin and they replaced it with no problems.

 

I decided that I didn't want to go though that again so I bought a lexan box about the size of the etrex, the lexan box is water proof, crush proof, and floats. all I had to do was add a little foam to hold the etrex in place, you can see the etrex when it's inside, and the box doesn't seem to effect reception one bit.

The company who makes the box is GSI outdoors, I used the smallest size box they make. you can find them on the bottom of this page. http://www.gsioutdoors.com/Products/LexanR...otherStuff.html

 

Edited October 5, 2006 by hogrod