Navigating routes exactly as created (no recalculation by unit)

[Fun Bunnies]

I want to create a route with MapSource and then use my Garmin xTrex Vista Cx

(on my bike) to navigate the roads EXACTLY as created them. When I click

navigate the device seems to want to use other roads. I don't want

'shortest' or 'fastest' I want the exact rout I created.

Any help will be appreciated.

[+Bus36]

I want to create a route with MapSource and then use my Garmin xTrex Vista Cx

(on my bike) to navigate the roads EXACTLY as created them. When I click

navigate the device seems to want to use other roads. I don't want

'shortest' or 'fastest' I want the exact rout I created.

Any help will be appreciated.

The way to do this is to use Mapsource and create a route. Then transfer this route to your unit. The go to the route page on your unit and navigate using the route.

[Fun Bunnies]

When I do what you suggest and then go to 'Routes' and bring up my newly-created route and click 'Navigate', I am given only two choices "Follow Road" and "Off Road". When I click "Follow Road" then I am give only two further options: "Faster Time" or "Shorter Distance". Either choice here instigates a "Calculation" by the unit which will most frequently OVER RIDE my selection of roads and turns etc and presuppose it knows a better or faster route. As I explained, I don't necessarily want 'better' or faster' - merely what I set out in MapSouce. This is important to anyone in a vehicle - car or a bicycle - who simply wants to create a scenic route following this and this river or by this and that farmhouse etc and have the directions played back as one travels.

I don't know that there is a work-around this over-zealous "route-calculation" of my particular Garmin.

Cliff

[CenTexDodger]

When I do what you suggest and then go to 'Routes' and bring up my newly-created route and click 'Navigate', I am given only two choices "Follow Road" and "Off Road". When I click "Follow Road" then I am give only two further options: "Faster Time" or "Shorter Distance". Either choice here instigates a "Calculation" by the unit which will most frequently OVER RIDE my selection of roads and turns etc and presuppose it knows a better or faster route. As I explained, I don't necessarily want 'better' or faster' - merely what I set out in MapSouce. This is important to anyone in a vehicle - car or a bicycle - who simply wants to create a scenic route following this and this river or by this and that farmhouse etc and have the directions played back as one travels.

I don't know that there is a work-around this over-zealous "route-calculation" of my particular Garmin.

Cliff

 

That is the way the Garmin autorouting handhelds work. If you send a route from Mapsource, the only thing the unit gets is the starting and ending points, and any intermediate points. It will calculate every time you tell it to route. To get it to do what you want it to do, you need to drop some intermediate points into the route. In Mapsource, build your route. Then using the arrow tool, highlight the route and drag it to the where you want it to go through. When you load it into the GPS and tell it to route, it will force the unit to route through those intermediate points.

[Fun Bunnies]

"Then using the arrow tool, highlight the route and drag it to the where you want it to go through" .

 

I'm sorry I'm fairly new to this and I'm not sure what you mean by the above.

 

When I use the arrow tool the route highlights in yellow a little selection box opens but it doesn't seem to drag anything. I see that when I right click various points on the route I can create "New Waypoint", but I'm wondering if what you suggest is less cumbersome?

[CenTexDodger]

"Then using the arrow tool, highlight the route and drag it to the where you want it to go through" .

 

I'm sorry I'm fairly new to this and I'm not sure what you mean by the above.

 

When I use the arrow tool the route highlights in yellow a little selection box opens but it doesn't seem to drag anything. I see that when I right click various points on the route I can create "New Waypoint", but I'm wondering if what you suggest is less cumbersome?

 

Sorry, I will try to be more explicit. Once you have a route, click it with the pointer tool It should turn yellow. then click and drag it to where you want it to go through. It should redraw going through your new point, and make a navigation point (like a waypoint) on the route. When you transfer this route to your GPS it will send the start and ending points along with all the intermediate points.

[Laurontario]

Sorry, I will try to be more explicit. Once you have a route, click it with the pointer tool It should turn yellow. then click and drag it to where you want it to go through. It should redraw going through your new point, and make a navigation point (like a waypoint) on the route. When you transfer this route to your GPS it will send the start and ending points along with all the intermediate points.

 

CenTex,

 

What version of Mapsource do you have?

I have 6.11.3 and mine doesn't do what you say. The route does tunr yellow, as you say but when I try to drag it it only draws a rectangle, nothing more.

[Fun Bunnies]

Sorry, I will try to be more explicit. Once you have a route, click it with the pointer tool It should turn yellow. then click and drag it to where you want it to go through. It should redraw going through your new point, and make a navigation point (like a waypoint) on the route. When you transfer this route to your GPS it will send the start and ending points along with all the intermediate points.

 

CenTex,

 

What version of Mapsource do you have?

I have 6.11.3 and mine doesn't do what you say. The route does tunr yellow, as you say but when I try to drag it it only draws a rectangle, nothing more.

 

I agree with CenTex.

I have version 6.11.3 and when I try to upgrade it tells me there are no further upgrades.

I am unable to "drag" anything either.

[CenTexDodger]

Sorry, I will try to be more explicit. Once you have a route, click it with the pointer tool It should turn yellow. then click and drag it to where you want it to go through. It should redraw going through your new point, and make a navigation point (like a waypoint) on the route. When you transfer this route to your GPS it will send the start and ending points along with all the intermediate points.

 

CenTex,

 

What version of Mapsource do you have?

I have 6.11.3 and mine doesn't do what you say. The route does tunr yellow, as you say but when I try to drag it it only draws a rectangle, nothing more.

 

You'r right

 

You don't drag it. Once you highlight it click it again, and it will lock to your cursor (with a little move symbol beside it). Then you can move it around and when you get it to where you want it, click again and it will lock it there. Sorry about that!

[Laurontario]

OK, now it works.

 

Thanks for the tip.

[Fun Bunnies]

Yes I see that now - however I think the device will still "recalcualte" and override my road selection to achieve the "shortes" or "quickest" route from point A to pont B unless I go to the trouble of m,arking in 'Waypoints" at every road/turn. Correct ? I wanted to avoid all the calculation nonesense and just navigate as per my original route plan.

[Laurontario]

I also hate the differences in routing between Mapsource and GPSr.

 

You can do something else: click on the route tool (the three points connected together with a line) and click where you want to start your route, then keep going, adding points along your route, where you think the GPSr would change it. Pretty cumbersome but possible.

[CenTexDodger]

Yes I see that now - however I think the device will still "recalcualte" and override my road selection to achieve the "shortes" or "quickest" route from point A to pont B unless I go to the trouble of m,arking in 'Waypoints" at every road/turn. Correct ? I wanted to avoid all the calculation nonesense and just navigate as per my original route plan.

 

Sort of. It will still calculate a route (fastest or shortest). If you build a route from A to B with C, D, and E in the middle, it will go through C D and E to get to B. C D and E do not have to be Waypoints. If you manipulate the route as I have suggested, it will create routing points--they act like waypoints, but do not show up on your waypoints list and do not take away from your waypoint count.

[Fun Bunnies]

That's the only work-around I can figure out too.

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd be glad to hear .

It's too bad Garmin doesn't put a "no route calculation" option along with "fastest" "shortest"

Cliff

[Fun Bunnies]

Yes I see that now - however I think the device will still "recalcualte" and override my road selection to achieve the "shortes" or "quickest" route from point A to pont B unless I go to the trouble of m,arking in 'Waypoints" at every road/turn. Correct ? I wanted to avoid all the calculation nonesense and just navigate as per my original route plan.

 

Sort of. It will still calculate a route (fastest or shortest). If you build a route from A to B with C, D, and E in the middle, it will go through C D and E to get to B. C D and E do not have to be Waypoints. If you manipulate the route as I have suggested, it will create routing points--they act like waypoints, but do not show up on your waypoints list and do not take away from your waypoint count.

 

I have to go out now - but I will try what you suggest and thank you and everyone else for their kind input.

Cliff

[+JanniCash]

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd be glad to hear .

It sounds like you want the behaviour of a non-routing unit, like the Legend. There is a little checkbox "Include route calculation data" on the maps tab. Maybe you can force a routing unit to do what you want by not including that data.

It's too bad Garmin doesn't put a "no route calculation" option along with "fastest" "shortest"

Cliff

Agreed.

 

Jan

[CenTexDodger]

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd be glad to hear .

It sounds like you want the behaviour of a non-routing unit, like the Legend. There is a little checkbox "Include route calculation data" on the maps tab. Maybe you can force a routing unit to do what you want by not including that data.

It's too bad Garmin doesn't put a "no route calculation" option along with "fastest" "shortest"

Cliff

Agreed.

 

Jan

 

Actually that will cause it to route on the routable basemap, which will produce some really weird results!

[+JanniCash]

Oh, you're right. Forgot about that basemap.

 

Jan

[+Red90]

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd be glad to hear .

It sounds like you want the behaviour of a non-routing unit, like the Legend. There is a little checkbox "Include route calculation data" on the maps tab. Maybe you can force a routing unit to do what you want by not including that data.

It's too bad Garmin doesn't put a "no route calculation" option along with "fastest" "shortest"

Cliff

Agreed.

 

Jan

 

What??? I am confused. "No Route Calculation" = "Off Road"

 

Look guys, I don't think you have read the earlier post clearly. When you send a route to a GPS, it sends ONLY waypoints of all marked points along the route. That is it. It CAN NOT SEND ROAD INFORMATION. The reason it CAN NOT do this is there is no way to ensure that the GPSr has the same road data as the map you are viewing in Mapsource.

[+apersson850]

The only Garmin unit that actually will do exactly what you want is the not yet released Zumo 550. There it will indeed follow exactly the same route as you've set up in Mapsource, when you download this route to a card, then plug the card into the Zumo.

[+JanniCash]

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd be glad to hear .

It sounds like you want the behaviour of a non-routing unit, like the Legend. There is a little checkbox "Include route calculation data" on the maps tab. Maybe you can force a routing unit to do what you want by not including that data.

It's too bad Garmin doesn't put a "no route calculation" option along with "fastest" "shortest"

Cliff

Agreed.

 

Jan

 

What??? I am confused. "No Route Calculation" = "Off Road"

 

Look guys, I don't think you have read the earlier post clearly. When you send a route to a GPS, it sends ONLY waypoints of all marked points along the route. That is it. It CAN NOT SEND ROAD INFORMATION. The reason it CAN NOT do this is there is no way to ensure that the GPSr has the same road data as the map you are viewing in Mapsource.

You might think that, but you're quite wrong.

 

I take it you never had an eTrex Legend. When you plan a route for that in MetroGuide 6, MapSource will insert a lot of route points (seems like one for every intersection). What happens then when you "navigate" that route is that it shows it like it looked on the PC. It will lead you from turn to turn, even showing you "upcoming turn" and switches to the next turn after you passed one. All that matches precisely the route as it was planned on the PC. As I understood the original question, that is exactly what is wanted.

 

Drawback is of course if you miss a turn, it can't reroute and can only show you how far away and in which direction the next route point is.

 

The best solution would be to have a setting that dumbs the unit down to the navigation mode of a Legend.

 

Jan

[CenTexDodger]

If anyone else has any suggestions I'd be glad to hear .

It sounds like you want the behaviour of a non-routing unit, like the Legend. There is a little checkbox "Include route calculation data" on the maps tab. Maybe you can force a routing unit to do what you want by not including that data.

It's too bad Garmin doesn't put a "no route calculation" option along with "fastest" "shortest"

Cliff

Agreed.

 

Jan

 

What??? I am confused. "No Route Calculation" = "Off Road"

 

Look guys, I don't think you have read the earlier post clearly. When you send a route to a GPS, it sends ONLY waypoints of all marked points along the route. That is it. It CAN NOT SEND ROAD INFORMATION. The reason it CAN NOT do this is there is no way to ensure that the GPSr has the same road data as the map you are viewing in Mapsource.

You might think that, but you're quite wrong.

 

I take it you never had an eTrex Legend. When you plan a route for that in MetroGuide 6, MapSource will insert a lot of route points (seems like one for every intersection). What happens then when you "navigate" that route is that it shows it like it looked on the PC. It will lead you from turn to turn, even showing you "upcoming turn" and switches to the next turn after you passed one. All that matches precisely the route as it was planned on the PC. As I understood the original question, that is exactly what is wanted.

 

Drawback is of course if you miss a turn, it can't reroute and can only show you how far away and in which direction the next route point is.

 

The best solution would be to have a setting that dumbs the unit down to the navigation mode of a Legend.

 

Jan

 

I had an eMap that worked just like your Legend. When they went to autorouting units, they changed the way it operated. Like I said earlier, if you put intermediate points (not true waypoints) it will load those into the GPS, and when it calculates a route it will force the route through those intermediate points.

[+JanniCash]

I had an eMap that worked just like your Legend. When they went to autorouting units, they changed the way it operated. Like I said earlier, if you put intermediate points (not true waypoints) it will load those into the GPS, and when it calculates a route it will force the route through those intermediate points.

Now we're on the same page.

 

Your method works. The problem is that one never knows how many of those extra route points are needed to get the unit to do what you want.

 

That is annoying, especially if you know that the data is still there! Just create any small route in MapSource and save it as GPX file. Look at it with notepad and you'll see that it saved dozens of extra gpxx:rtp objects. Those are the route points, non-autorouting capable units like the Legend or eMap are using. The autorouting units like VistaCS (had one of those too) and my current 60CSx simply ignore these points.

 

Jan

[+apersson850]

What you refer to, for the Legend and the eMap, is something entirely different. In such a case, an autoroute created on the PC is converted to an off-road route, which passes the same turns as the autoroute would do.

It is not at all the same thing. The route on the Legend will show you straight lines between the turns, not lines following the roads. The ETA calculation will not be based on the learned speeds for the roads (there aren't any), the turn arrow will not point in the direction of the turn, but in the direction of the next turn, something that may not at all be the same thing.

 

In the Zumo, however, it works the way you want it to do.

[CenTexDodger]

What you refer to, for the Legend and the eMap, is something entirely different. In such a case, an autoroute created on the PC is converted to an off-road route, which passes the same turns as the autoroute would do.

It is not at all the same thing. The route on the Legend will show you straight lines between the turns, not lines following the roads. The ETA calculation will not be based on the learned speeds for the roads (there aren't any), the turn arrow will not point in the direction of the turn, but in the direction of the next turn, something that may not at all be the same thing.

 

In the Zumo, however, it works the way you want it to do.

 

Good point that neither of us clarified. The eMap route was more of a "connect the dots" that did not follow the roads. It would, however, draw a "connect the dots" route that was roughly the same as the MapSource route. What the OP and others are correctly pointing out is that the 60 series, although it uses the same routing information as MapSource, often builds a different route than the one you created in MapSource because on the handheld you are not able to customize the way it will treat certain road types, such as "prefer minor roads" rather than "prefer highways".

 

The work around mentioned above (creating navigation points along a route) is the only way I know to get the GPS to build a route that will mirror MapSource routes, particularly if you are taking the "scenic route."

[Fun Bunnies]

I hope the Garmin folks read these forums.

It would be nice if they modified their firmware and software to reflect this need.

After reading the many replies to my question I gather the consesus is that, my machine nayhow, the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx will only create a defined route if routing, navigation or waypoints are created at every interesection.

I am new to GPSing and I wonder if someone might advise the easiest way to create these points. Also I wonder if one has to turn off"Re-calculate" option in Setup ?

[CenTexDodger]

I hope the Garmin folks read these forums.

It would be nice if they modified their firmware and software to reflect this need.

After reading the many replies to my question I gather the consesus is that, my machine nayhow, the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx will only create a defined route if routing, navigation or waypoints are created at every interesection.

I am new to GPSing and I wonder if someone might advise the easiest way to create these points. Also I wonder if one has to turn off"Re-calculate" option in Setup ?

 

First. Lets clear something up. Red90 mentioned direct routes (off road routes). That is straight line connecting 2 or more points. If you want, you can set a waypoint at every intersection and draw a route connecting the dots. That will give you a route similar to what we discussed with the eMap/B&W Legend.

 

Then there is Autorouting. Autorouting is the calculation of a route by the GPS the way it thinks you should go As you said, there are only two options--faster or shorter. That is not quite true, you can also tell it to avoid highways, toll roads, dirt roads and a few others. If you create a route in MapSource and then lock it to some intermediate points (the above mentioned work-around), it should go the way you want it to. Now, that does not mean you have to drop a point at every intersection, but rather a few placed along the way will force the GPS to follow your route, particularly if you choose shorter distance. It will build a "shorter distance" route that will calculate the shortest distance between the intermediate points that you have preselected. It already knows how to navigate intersections, and it will if you tell it to be on a particular road.

 

I hope that does not sound too garbled. I will be happy to clarify any point here.

 

If you turn the "off-route recalculation" off, it will leave the route as is once it is created. I have not worked with this feature, so I don't know what it will do if you get off your route.

 

Edited to add: MapSource calls those intermediate points "Via Points". They are not true waypoints, but they act like waypoints and are included in the route, and will be included in the route calculation that the GPS performs.

Edited September 22, 2006 by CenTexDodger

[Fun Bunnies]

I hope the Garmin folks read these forums.

It would be nice if they modified their firmware and software to reflect this need.

After reading the many replies to my question I gather the consesus is that, my machine nayhow, the Garmin eTrex Vista Cx will only create a defined route if routing, navigation or waypoints are created at every interesection.

I am new to GPSing and I wonder if someone might advise the easiest way to create these points. Also I wonder if one has to turn off"Re-calculate" option in Setup ?

 

First. Lets clear something up. Red90 mentioned direct routes (off road routes). That is straight line connecting 2 or more points. If you want, you can set a waypoint at every intersection and draw a route connecting the dots. That will give you a route similar to what we discussed with the eMap/B&W Legend.

 

Then there is Autorouting. Autorouting is the calculation of a route by the GPS the way it thinks you should go As you said, there are only two options--faster or shorter. That is not quite true, you can also tell it to avoid highways, toll roads, dirt roads and a few others. If you create a route in MapSource and then lock it to some intermediate points (the above mentioned work-around), it should go the way you want it to. Now, that does not mean you have to drop a point at every intersection, but rather a few placed along the way will force the GPS to follow your route, particularly if you choose shorter distance. It will build a "shorter distance" route that will calculate the shortest distance between the intermediate points that you have preselected. It already knows how to navigate intersections, and it will if you tell it to be on a particular road.

 

I hope that does not sound too garbled. I will be happy to clarify any point here.

 

If you turn the "off-route recalculation" off, it will leave the route as is once it is created. I have not worked with this feature, so I don't know what it will do if you get off your route.

 

Edited to add: MapSource calls those intermediate points "Via Points". They are not true waypoints, but they act like waypoints and are included in the route, and will be included in the route calculation that the GPS performs.

 

Thanks for this.

 

We are planning a little bike ride from Mission, B.C. to Bellingham, Wa through Abbotsford and Sumas - a trip that should be approx 41 mi. Even adding waypoints as suggested, after my Garmin is through with it (ie creating in MapSource, transfering to the eTrex and instructing it to navigate the route) it adds about 10 more miles and has us going way out of our way across a ferry etc. Very complicated and disappoining when all I want it to do is direct us as we cycle along country road in our area. I actually tried telling the dadgum thing we were using a bicycle and wanted to avoid highways and dirt roads and the milage came out at over 80!)

The machine has no idea about topography yet directs us up and down, ignoring roads I have clearly designated in it's mindless recalcualtion.

I'll have to play around with it a bit more - or perhaps better yet, leave the Garmin home and buy a map. )

[Laurontario]

I'll have to play around with it a bit more - or perhaps better yet, leave the Garmin home and buy a map. )

 

Why don't you create your route as I mentioned before, using the route tool?

You could add via points at each intersection, this way your GPSr will be forced to follow your route since you won't give him the chance to stray from course.

 

This might be a bit cumbersome but will work. Until Garmin finds a solution to fix this.

 

By the way... anyone tried to contact Garmin about this? did they provided an explanation?

[dhatw]

I may be wrong about this but I discovered that you can create tracks with mapsourse. The part that I might be wrong about is, can you not draw a track and navigate it in the GPS? There is no recalculation of a track I believe. Could this not work for what you want?

 

Okay, I tried it and it seems to work. I did not have a signal lock but when I tried to navigate it only asked if I wanted to lock on road or navigate route. You can draw a detailed track with a pencil icon or click on each intersection that you would like to turn at. You can also reverse the track of course.

Edited September 24, 2006 by dhatw

[Fun Bunnies]

I'll have to play around with it a bit more - or perhaps better yet, leave the Garmin home and buy a map. )

 

Why don't you create your route as I mentioned before, using the route tool?

You could add via points at each intersection, this way your GPSr will be forced to follow your route since you won't give him the chance to stray from course.

 

This might be a bit cumbersome but will work. Until Garmin finds a solution to fix this.

 

By the way... anyone tried to contact Garmin about this? did they provided an explanation?

 

Yes this does seem to work if click each intersection with the selection tool as you suggest. I created a route through our neighbourhood with a myriad of turns and the graphic depiction of the route held fast in Navigation - although the little pop-up indicators of approaching turns were inconsistant and simply notofied the name of the street I was travelling on rather than directing a turn. It may be a matter of exactly where one creates the via point - ie where you clcik with the selection tool and I'll practice a bit more. Getting this far though is very helpful !

I did write Garment referring them to this forum and what seems to be a desire for a firmware upgrade in this area - but who knows.

Thanks

[Fun Bunnies]

I may be wrong about this but I discovered that you can create tracks with mapsourse. The part that I might be wrong about is, can you not draw a track and navigate it in the GPS? There is no recalculation of a track I believe. Could this not work for what you want?

 

Okay, I tried it and it seems to work. I did not have a signal lock but when I tried to navigate it only asked if I wanted to lock on road or navigate route. You can draw a detailed track with a pencil icon or click on each intersection that you would like to turn at. You can also reverse the track of course.

 

Thanks dhatw, I'll give this a try as well.

I had no idea you could do this !

[+SparkyInCali]

I know you wanted to use mapsourse but you can easily do this using expertgps.It will allow you to create a track which you can upload to your gps.Next go to menu -->tracks select the track you made then click on the trackback button.It will ask you what point you want to trackback to.Select the end or whatever point you want to go to.It will then ask if you want to follow the road or the track select follow track and this will force you to follow the track as made.You now can just follow where the arrow points

[dhatw]

I know you wanted to use mapsourse but you can easily do this using expertgps.It will allow you to create a track which you can upload to your gps.Next go to menu -->tracks select the track you made then click on the trackback button.It will ask you what point you want to trackback to.Select the end or whatever point you want to go to.It will then ask if you want to follow the road or the track select follow track and this will force you to follow the track as made.You now can just follow where the arrow points

 

As far as I see you can do exactly the same with Mapsource.