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Getting Lost vs. Being Disoriented


Team LaLonde

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The following is our DNF log from last night. The cache was located 1.8 miles away ATCF in a designated wilderness area that has a wolf pack, bears and coyotes. We wanted the FTF quite badly but it nearly got us lost in an area where you can go days without seeing other human beings. The reason I am posting this is not to show our stupidity, but to show people that orienteering and experience can get you out of a bad situation. Do NOT always rely on your GPSr! Warning, this is a long log.

 

Our adventure was doomed from the start. The two-track leading to the trailhead was blocked by a large fallen tree. This should have been our first clue to turn back. Fortunately we were test driving a Jeep (which we WILL buy) and there was an auxiliary trail that got us to the registration point.

Anne signed us in and I prepared the Camelbak and the trekking poles. It was about six o'clock in the evening by now and we were trying to beat nightfall. Spare batteries - check!; first aid kit - check!; flashlight - nope. Searching through my pack I could not find a flashlight. Then I remembered, one was in my camera bag and I took the other out of the pack the night before for some reason. This should have been the defining moment of retreat because I know better than to go into a dense, unfamiliar forest without a light especially at this hour. Greed urged us on for the FTF so we marched off into the woods planning to 'hurry'.

 

Geoffrey, our five-month-old German Shorthaired Pointer was happily running through the woods dragging his leash and marking his territory about every fifty yards. I jokingly made a comment about how that was good because he could then find his way back to the car. Oh, so many omens. . .

 

We crossed many streams and Anne temporarily lost a shoe in the mud We eventually lost the trail, causing us to bush whack for a half-mile. Eventually we found some waterfalls but the GPSr was telling us we were fourteen hundredths away. Darkness wasn't far off and we wasted at least fifteen minutes arguing about if and how we should continue. Geoffrey and I pressed on while Anne sat at the bottom of the falls. At one point I had a reading of 411 feet but the next step I took gave me a reading of .12 miles in the OPPOSITE direction. I knew it was wrong but it was we were losing light fast. I resigned a DNF and climbed back down the slope and gave Anne the bad news. At this point we discovered Geoffrey has lost his leash.

 

As we were heading back to the Jeep we figured we would try to find the trail on the way back so we could avoid bush whacking. We got turned around again when the GPSr lost reception. I was also using a compass for navigation and quickly realized we had turned 180 degrees. Visibility was diminishing to the point that I had to use the light from the Etrex to illuminate the compass on the end of the trekking pole. Geoffrey was in unfamiliar territory since we took a different path of return. Anne was getting scared and panic nearly swept over me as I came to the conclusion that we were going to have to make it out of the McCormick Wilderness in total darkness without a trail to follow.

 

Something took over and my brain started calculating. After some quick math we decided to follow the river to our original point of where we got lost. We picked up the trail and looked at our Garmin. Over one and a half miles to go in the pitch black. The moon wasn't even out to light the way. The coyotes were calling in the distance but they were far enough away that we figured it was safe. Besides, we had the almighty pepper spray! Anne has terrible night vision so I took off my belt and gave her one end and I held the other. Geoffrey took the lead, sniffing out his own urine trail. We followed the sound of his jingling dog tags through the blackness and used the light on the Etrex to identify trip hazards. The illumination was good up to about three feet so progress was slow. At one point Anne tripped and fell, which almost put her over the edge. After hearing something walking behind us off-trail we decided we needed to get out of the woods as quickly as possible. The track back feature on the Garmin worked so well I almost walked straight into the registration station at the parking area. It was ten o'clock in the evening and we have never been so happy to leave a cache! Thanks for the adventure!!

 

Perhaps I'll try this one with a friend in the daytime after the first snow.

 

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So which cache was it??? I want to go get it!!! j/k. Seriously, it's good to know that cooler heads prevailed in that situation and no one got hurt. Say what you want about GPSr's and technology, but sometimes it's amazing what a compass and a lot of little urine puddles can do.

 

Edited for Spelling & to remove quote since it's long...

Edited by mgbmusic
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A tad overconfident at the outset, I'd say. Aside from the obvious mistakes, which you're already aware of, you should never, NEVER leave your partner behind, even if you're only traveling just a few hundred paces. Finding your way back to a trail (a line) is easier than finding your way back to a person (a point), especially if the person decides to try to come and find you.

 

Well, that said, I'm glad you made it. I know the feeling of getting lost, which is why I bought a GPSr in the first place. I never want to feel that way again.

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A tad overconfident at the outset, I'd say. Aside from the obvious mistakes, which you're already aware of, you should never, NEVER leave your partner behind, even if you're only traveling just a few hundred paces. Finding your way back to a trail (a line) is easier than finding your way back to a person (a point), especially if the person decides to try to come and find you.

 

Well, that said, I'm glad you made it. I know the feeling of getting lost, which is why I bought a GPSr in the first place. I never want to feel that way again.

 

I felt confident in leaving her there only because I was in an aerial viewing position of her and could see and hear her the whole time. Normally we wouldn't split up. We actually discussed going back today but Geoffrey is way too tired. Maybe next weekend and earlier in the day?

Edited by Team LaLonde
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Lesson learned. ALWAYS have flashlights. If there is any chance at all we'll be out after dark should something go wrong we have our good LED lights. They are $35 at Target and very small to carry in a pack and put out an amazing amount of light. Plus, being LED they run for a long, long time on battery. We've been very glad to have them when a trip ran long.

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Your topic title reminded me of this anecdote:

 

When Chester Harding was painting Daniel Boone's portrait in 1820 (when Boone was nearly 86 years old), Harding asked Boone if he had ever been lost during his travels. Boone replied, " No, I can't say as ever I was lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."

 

I'm glad it didn't take you three days. :laughing:

Edited by worldtraveler
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The following is our DNF log from last night. The cache was located 1.8 miles away ATCF in a designated wilderness area that has a wolf pack, bears and coyotes.

[/i]

Well I thought Caches were taboo in Designated Wilderness Areas. So other than looking for one when its going to get dark and not being prepared, why look for it.

 

At least you made it out, I just hate having to do a S&R for some idiots.

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Flashlights seems to the popular response, but a flashlight will help you see where you're walking, see the compass or GPS, maybe even the trail.

 

What it won't neccesarily do is help you figure out where you are, or where to go.

 

Perhaps the best advice I can give folks in this condition is, stay calm. Panic will mess with your mind in incredible ways!

 

Sure, there's coyotes and bears and snakes and all manner of creepy-crawly things, and real and imagined things walking around - none of which is a threat to you! These irrational fears come from living in a city, where the woods are a deep dark unknown and the media makes much ado about every animal encounter.

 

A hiker's chances of being attacked by anything while sleeping at the base of a tree are so low as to be almost immeasuarble, certainly far far far less dangerous than the automobile drive which took you to the woods, which drive, percentage-wise, was incredibly dangerous yet bothered you not one bit!

 

It's all, as one geocacher is fond of reminding me, in your world-view! If you think you are supposed to be scared, you will be!

 

So, when lost in or near dark, stop. Don't seperate, don't wander about hoping to find the trail, just sit down somewhere, make a fire if you can, and wait for morning.

 

Yes, it gets cold, even in the summer. Yes, skeeters and ticks will bite you. But you are far safer sitting quietly than thrashing about the woods. Once you calm down you may even get some sleep!

 

I have spent many a night like this, in desert, swamp, forest and jungle. Camping gear isn't required, and your ancestors survived nicely doing exactly this.

 

Remember that all those movies are fiction, and Don't let your imagination get you hurt!

 

For geocachers who regularly go far into the woods (1/2 mile might be far if you're not used to it), consider a night out like this on purpose!

 

It will be an uncomfortable night, but it will show you that you are in no danger, and when the real lost time comes, you will know that you can sit out the night, no big deal!

 

Ed

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here's a dumb question from a city slicker.

 

Can coyotes hurt you?

 

I ask because my wife was awarded a 2 week residency at one of the Cape Cod National Seashore Dune Shacks. She greatly enjoyed it (ard wrote 150 pages on the typewriter we bought on ebay!)

 

But enough of her. There are coyotes on the Cape and she was disappointed to not have seen one. She didn't go walking at night, New England has had an exceptionally wet year and the bugs were horrible, they seem to enjoy DEET! (But the wild roses were the best in decades.)

 

So, would she have been in danger from them if she had gone out at night?

 

Oh, and to back on topic, I'm glad to see that you and your partner are safe!

 

Paul

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Flashlights seems to the popular response, but a flashlight will help you see where you're walking, see the compass or GPS, maybe even the trail.

 

What it won't neccesarily do is help you figure out where you are, or where to go.

 

Perhaps the best advice I can give folks in this condition is, stay calm. Panic will mess with your mind in incredible ways!

 

Sure, there's coyotes and bears and snakes and all manner of creepy-crawly things, and real and imagined things walking around - none of which is a threat to you! These irrational fears come from living in a city, where the woods are a deep dark unknown and the media makes much ado about every animal encounter.

 

A hiker's chances of being attacked by anything while sleeping at the base of a tree are so low as to be almost immeasuarble, certainly far far far less dangerous than the automobile drive which took you to the woods, which drive, percentage-wise, was incredibly dangerous yet bothered you not one bit!

 

It's all, as one geocacher is fond of reminding me, in your world-view! If you think you are supposed to be scared, you will be!

 

So, when lost in or near dark, stop. Don't seperate, don't wander about hoping to find the trail, just sit down somewhere, make a fire if you can, and wait for morning.

 

Yes, it gets cold, even in the summer. Yes, skeeters and ticks will bite you. But you are far safer sitting quietly than thrashing about the woods. Once you calm down you may even get some sleep!

 

I have spent many a night like this, in desert, swamp, forest and jungle. Camping gear isn't required, and your ancestors survived nicely doing exactly this.

 

Remember that all those movies are fiction, and Don't let your imagination get you hurt!

 

For geocachers who regularly go far into the woods (1/2 mile might be far if you're not used to it), consider a night out like this on purpose!

 

It will be an uncomfortable night, but it will show you that you are in no danger, and when the real lost time comes, you will know that you can sit out the night, no big deal!

 

Ed

I am very happy that the OP and his family got back to their vehicle safely, but what Ed writes is absolutely true: there are plenty of people who live in forests in close proximity to allthe animals named by the OP, and, for the most part, they do not pose any threat. And, our ancestors lived in such situations all the time. I have camped even in winter in deep snow without a tent, and I have slept in a flimsy tent in wilderness portions of Yellowstone within ten feet of a trial made by a giant female grizzly bear on her nightly rounds, and I awakended before dawn one morning to leave my tent and forage for puffballs in her territory. In each of these situations, all went well, and nothing bad happened.

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here's a dumb question from a city slicker.

 

Can coyotes hurt you?

I've been very close to coyotes several times both at night and in the daytime, by chance. To tell you the truth they seemed a bit safer than a domestic dog. I did get a little nervous when I saw one running down the path at me once, but it was running from a bicyclist and veered off the path at the last moment. They're more of a threat to any pets you might have. One tried to kill a puppy once at my parents place, but their golden retriever came to the rescue.

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here's a dumb question from a city slicker.

 

Can coyotes hurt you?

I've been very close to coyotes several times both at night and in the daytime, by chance. To tell you the truth they seemed a bit safer than a domestic dog. I did get a little nervous when I saw one running down the path at me once, but it was running from a bicyclist and veered off the path at the last moment. They're more of a threat to any pets you might have. One tried to kill a puppy once at my parents place, but their golden retriever came to the rescue.

 

You hear of them attacking humans from time to time; I haven't seen any stats but suspect it's rare.

 

A friend and I spent a long cold night lost in the desert in the foothills of the Superstition Mountains (car broke, we walked away, stupid) outside Mesa, Az, surrounded by coyotes - you could see their glowing eyes every time we stoked the fire. They gave us no trouble.

 

The fact that we'd been out that night specifically to shoot coyotes that were killing the landowners animals was NOT of any comfort!

 

Ed

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here's a dumb question from a city slicker.

 

Can coyotes hurt you?

I've been very close to coyotes several times both at night and in the daytime, by chance. To tell you the truth they seemed a bit safer than a domestic dog. I did get a little nervous when I saw one running down the path at me once, but it was running from a bicyclist and veered off the path at the last moment. They're more of a threat to any pets you might have. One tried to kill a puppy once at my parents place, but their golden retriever came to the rescue.

 

You hear of them attacking humans from time to time; I haven't seen any stats but suspect it's rare.

 

A friend and I spent a long cold night lost in the desert in the foothills of the Superstition Mountains (car broke, we walked away, stupid) outside Mesa, Az, surrounded by coyotes - you could see their glowing eyes every time we stoked the fire. They gave us no trouble.

 

The fact that we'd been out that night specifically to shoot coyotes that were killing the landowners animals was NOT of any comfort!

 

Ed

 

Around here it's rare to ever see one, they are far to wary of people to spend much time in the open. There is one that seems to have a den not far from my house though, we see it every spring in the same place, and it even walked across my yard one morning, my Lab ran it off.

 

To the one who asked, No, as a rule Coyotes won't bother people, but remember for every rule there is an exception so take sensible precautions.

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I suppose that's one good thing about living in the midwest, if I ever got *really* lost, I'd just have to walk in a straight line for a half hour, and I'd be out of the woods and into a highway or farm. :D

 

You're assuming that in pitch black with no navigation equipment (gps, compass) you can walk a straight line. Stand in an open, empty field, choose a point several hundred yards away, blindfold yourself and walk towards it. You won't stay on the path. If you're right handed, you'll veer slightly to the left--your dominant side is stronger, and subconsiously takes longer, more powerful strides.

 

If you can find a fencerow to walk, you're good.

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I suppose that's one good thing about living in the midwest, if I ever got *really* lost, I'd just have to walk in a straight line for a half hour, and I'd be out of the woods and into a highway or farm. :D

 

You're assuming that in pitch black with no navigation equipment (gps, compass) you can walk a straight line. Stand in an open, empty field, choose a point several hundred yards away, blindfold yourself and walk towards it. You won't stay on the path. If you're right handed, you'll veer slightly to the left--your dominant side is stronger, and subconsiously takes longer, more powerful strides.

 

If you can find a fencerow to walk, you're good.

 

It's never pitch black in the Midwest, to darn many lights, even from 30 miles away I can see the glow from Indianapolis at night. In the woods though it will be to dark to walk on a dark night, I've felt my way along before in woods I know intimately.

His point though is that you can't get lost here if you stop and think, you can always hear a nearby highway or see a radio tower, or find a field which always has an access to either a road or the farmers home.

Fields are easy to spot from the woods without a light, look for the light, fields are brighter at night and are easy to see where they are, the woods aren't as dark in that direction. Follow a stream to a highway bridge, walk with the wind hitting you from the same side. When I used to hunt at night I always checked wind direction before I started out, makes it easier to keep from getting lost.

Long before GPS I was walking long distances through unfamiler woods at night, never in a straight line for long, and always finding my way back to the truck. You may get temporarily confused, but you can't get lost here if you stop and think.

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here's a dumb question from a city slicker.

 

Can coyotes hurt you?

 

They certainly can. Will they? Highly unlikely.

 

Coyotes Growing Bolder

 

In April, two young children reportedly were bitten by coyotes in Bellevue. State wildlife officials believe those are the first documented attacks on humans in Washington's history.
Edited by Right Wing Wacko
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I always mark a waypoint at my car before heading out, always bring a flashlight, and always have a bug-out bearing in mind (a compass bearing along which I could travel using my compass, if the GPS breaks, that would without fail bring me to a road or powerline)...

 

Jamie - NFA

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here's a dumb question from a city slicker.

 

Can coyotes hurt you?

 

 

They have teeth and claws, so yes, they CAN hurt you; so can hampsters, if you handle them wrong. :D

 

WILL they attempt to harm a human? Not likely, unless you are disabled and they're starving.

 

However: They can and do go after domestic animals, including dogs - many people living in suburban and urban areas that have coyote populations have lost dogs, cats, and small-animal pets to coyotes.

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here's a dumb question from a city slicker.

 

Can coyotes hurt you?

 

 

Yes but not very likely. Coyotes tend to be pack hunters and when seen alone are much more likely to be scared of you then you of them. As with most wild animals - don't irritate them or corner them and they will probably move along.

 

I see them frequently while out caching in rural areas around here. Even found one curled up next to a cache on a cold winter night once. Nearby rocks radiated a bit of heat and area was sheltered from wind. My flashlight and startled movement had us both jumping.

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Flashlights seems to the popular response, but a flashlight will help you see where you're walking, see the compass or GPS, maybe even the trail.

 

What it won't neccesarily do is help you figure out where you are, or where to go.

 

Perhaps the best advice I can give folks in this condition is, stay calm. Panic will mess with your mind in incredible ways!

 

Sure, there's coyotes and bears and snakes and all manner of creepy-crawly things, and real and imagined things walking around - none of which is a threat to you! These irrational fears come from living in a city, where the woods are a deep dark unknown and the media makes much ado about every animal encounter.

 

A hiker's chances of being attacked by anything while sleeping at the base of a tree are so low as to be almost immeasuarble, certainly far far far less dangerous than the automobile drive which took you to the woods, which drive, percentage-wise, was incredibly dangerous yet bothered you not one bit!

 

It's all, as one geocacher is fond of reminding me, in your world-view! If you think you are supposed to be scared, you will be!

 

So, when lost in or near dark, stop. Don't seperate, don't wander about hoping to find the trail, just sit down somewhere, make a fire if you can, and wait for morning.

 

Yes, it gets cold, even in the summer. Yes, skeeters and ticks will bite you. But you are far safer sitting quietly than thrashing about the woods. Once you calm down you may even get some sleep!

 

I have spent many a night like this, in desert, swamp, forest and jungle. Camping gear isn't required, and your ancestors survived nicely doing exactly this.

 

Remember that all those movies are fiction, and Don't let your imagination get you hurt!

 

For geocachers who regularly go far into the woods (1/2 mile might be far if you're not used to it), consider a night out like this on purpose!

 

It will be an uncomfortable night, but it will show you that you are in no danger, and when the real lost time comes, you will know that you can sit out the night, no big deal!

 

Ed

 

My bigest fear is that I'll worry my family if I wind up getting lost for any long period of time, especially overnight. To just sit back and go to sleep overnight just doesn't seem the right thing to do.. Plus, how embarrassing! So I try my damdest to get out of there. Fortunately my hikes usually have some road somewheres nearby so it's more a moment of panic.

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:laughing: The critter that scares me more than a lone coyote here in Oregon is the cougar. If you hear one of them at night, he/she can be on top of you in about 4 seconds. I have seen the tracks in snow and in sand while caching. I did see a coyote crossing the highway this spring. I saw a bear on a F.S. road this summer.

Be aware that any mammal, from bats to squirrels and wild dogs can have rabies.

I always have a glow-stick in my pack in case the flashlight fails. Unless you know that bad weather is coming in overnight, pick a safe wind-protected spot, build a fire if you can and wait for morning. You may meet some well intentioned rescuers near your vehicle in the morning. Just pretend that you intended to spend the night out there and be sure to tell them truthfully that you put out your warming fire. :rolleyes:

Heck, you may even have a better sat fix and go back and FTF the cache in the morning!

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They have teeth and claws, so yes, they CAN hurt you; so can hampsters, if you handle them wrong. :D

 

However: They can and do go after domestic animals, including dogs - many people living in suburban and urban areas that have coyote populations have lost dogs, cats, and small-animal pets to coyotes.

 

Is that hampers or hamsters? I guess I could get my arm caught in a hamper if I mishandle it.... :(

 

As for the coyotes....yep, no threat to humans but definitely to small animals. I lost my favorite cat to coyotes a few months after I moved into my new house, which backs on a greenbelt. :D

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Is that hampers or hamsters? I guess I could get my arm caught in a hamper if I mishandle it.... :D

 

Heh. Hamster, as in small furry antisocial rodent** with sharp teeth, not hamper as in where to put the dirty laundry. For some reason, I have a tendency to typo the word. :D

 

**They're solitary in nature, except when mating. Rats, being highly social animals, make MUCH better small animal pets.

 

As for the coyotes....yep, no threat to humans but definitely to small animals. I lost my favorite cat to coyotes a few months after I moved into my new house, which backs on a greenbelt. :(

 

My condolences (seriously!).

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I almost hate telling this. About 5 or 6 years ago I got my first handheld GPS. I had a GPS in my airplane so I was confident I could use the handheld version quite easily. I was elk hunting in an area that I which I was very familar. I punched in my truck co-ordinates and proceeded to spend the day hunting. As it got dark, I decided to continue hunting a bit longer figuring that I would test out my new GPS on the way back. When I started back I became fixated on the GPS and really didn't spend any attention to where I was heading. Before I knew it, I had lost reception in the dense forest cover and I had to use my backlight in order to see the screen which quickly killed my batteries. There I was, 40 years of hunting experience under my belt, ex-surveyor, ex-artillery fire direction controller, and dadgum lost. I had pretty much decided I was going to spend an evening in the woods before a rising moon got me oriented and I walked out within a 100 feet of my car. The next day I went to REI and picked up an instructional tape from Garmin. GPS's are great but only if you know how to use them. And, I might add, maps and compasses don't need batteries. Carry them when you're geocaching in the forest.

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The Alabama Rambler's post about spending the night in the Superstition Mts in AZ reminded me of a time in my hippy-dippy days when I walked into the Superstitions with a day pack, precious little water and no food. Spent 6 days out there. A local had told me where to find water, and I just fasted. My "survival gear" was a compass and a space blanket. Matches. In the scenario of the OP, I expect I'd just hunker and wait for daylight, rather than run the risk of walking off/into something.

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