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GeoCoin Dispenser


TheAlabamaRambler

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Okay, geocache tinkerers, I need your help!

 

I like coin trading. I like geocaching. Coins in geocaches disappear in a hurry. Every geocoin cache that I know of has been plundered.

 

So, I want to create a geocoin dispenser that trades one for one - you deposit a geocoin and it dispenses one!

 

PLEASE keep this thread to how-to ideas - whether you like the idea, would or wouldn't hunt it, object to cameras, think the idea stinks - I do not care! Keep it to yourself!

 

If, on the other hand, you think it's interesting and want to submit ideas on how it might be done, thanks! Feel free to post!

 

Coins are not all the same weight or size, some are in plastic envelopes, some are not, so traditional dipensers won't work.

 

I want a camera focused on it that gets the trader's image, maybe even their car tag! Might use an existing webcam, might place one just for for the cache, dunno yet. Cameras being so cheap nowadays I might have one that gets the visitor and one focused tight on what they are leaving as a trade.

 

Camera or not anything we make will be easily defeated, so all I really want is a machine that accepts a single item and dispenses a single coin - we can't control what the visitor puts in.

 

The cache will likely be in my front yard, so electrics, electronics, even computer controls are not too far-fetched, though simpler is better.

 

Ideas?

 

Thanks!

Ed

 

EDIT - Moderator, while it's sorta about coins it's really about a geocache... I hope it's okay in this thread rather than geocoin. Thanks, Ed

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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I'm pretty imaginative, but I can't think of how to make a machine like that given the different sizes and shapes of the coins.

 

I know this may seem a bit simple, but if you want it in your front yard, why not just post coords and the coins you have to trade and invite people to come trade?

 

El Diablo

 

I want it to be available 24/7, and while I like me, think I am a pretty good feller, I know that not everyone wants to meet me, sit down for coffee!

 

I will take your suggestion, however, and leave an invite for anyone that wants to call, see if I am home, then come by and trade!

 

Ed

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I'm pretty imaginative, but I can't think of how to make a machine like that given the different sizes and shapes of the coins.

 

I know this may seem a bit simple, but if you want it in your front yard, why not just post coords and the coins you have to trade and invite people to come trade?

 

El Diablo

 

I want it to be available 24/7, and while I like me, think I am a pretty good feller, I know that not everyone wants to meet me, sit down for coffee!

 

I will take your suggestion, however, and leave an invite for anyone that wants to call, see if I am home, then come by and trade!

 

Ed

 

Having met you...I would think a lot of people would enjoy the experience to do so.

 

El Diablo

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We had a geocoin taken and not logged and the cache has a camera recording it.

 

So I saw who took it, I emailed them after they had it for some time. They were not very nice to the geocoin, I threatened to out them as a theif and they said they would realease the coin and they did after they cut it in half.

 

So just because you know who has the coin does not mean the coin will be ok.

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We had a geocoin taken and not logged and the cache has a camera recording it.

 

So I saw who took it, I emailed them after they had it for some time. They were not very nice to the geocoin, I threatened to out them as a theif and they said they would realease the coin and they did after they cut it in half.

 

So just because you know who has the coin does not mean the coin will be ok.

 

Bummer! I have your coin too, in fact I have two, I think! One will be in the machine.

 

Yes, it can be defeated, no, I can't protect it from bad guys, but most folk who know they are being photographed will behave - in fact I believe 99% of geocachers will behave anyway - it's that 1% I am trying to keep from raping the cache!

 

Have fun,

Ed

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If A TB / GEOCOIN trading cache is what you want to set up here is a suggestion: Have a cache that all can get to the log so if they dont have a bug / coin to trade they can still visit the cache site and log it, also at the cache site have a lock box with a combination lock and list in the cache description that if a coin or bug is going to be traded that the member wishing to trade email you for the combination. I myself would not visit a cache of this type or would I want my COIN or TB locked in someones cache, by doing this you would keep members who have never experienced finding a COIN / TB from getting one from your cache, If you wish to do It with Coins / TB you own so be it. Just my 2 cents but I'm sure others think the same way...

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If A TB / GEOCOIN trading cache is what you want to set up here is a suggestion: Have a cache that all can get to the log so if they dont have a bug / coin to trade they can still visit the cache site and log it, also at the cache site have a lock box with a combination lock and list in the cache description that if a coin or bug is going to be traded that the member wishing to trade email you for the combination. I myself would not visit a cache of this type or would I want my COIN or TB locked in someones cache, by doing this you would keep members who have never experienced finding a COIN / TB from getting one from your cache, If you wish to do It with Coins / TB you own so be it. Just my 2 cents but I'm sure others think the same way...

The thief could just come back later or just give the combo to a friend.

Getting closer to an idea!

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eh, nevermind, if I thought this idea was based on reality I might have an opinion.

I seriously doubt that it would be of interest. Was this posted simply to insult me? Do you have any reason whatsoever to doubt me or my motivation?

 

An automated geocoin prison. What a great idea!

200 or so geocoins, mostly unactivated and uncirculated, sit in my collection and are traded at events and with friends - how exactly is that a prison? I trade 1 for 1 in person, or the machine trades 1 for 1 - where's the beef?

 

If A TB / GEOCOIN trading cache is what you want to set up here is a suggestion: Have a cache that all can get to the log so if they dont have a bug / coin to trade they can still visit the cache site and log it, also at the cache site have a lock box with a combination lock and list in the cache description that if a coin or bug is going to be traded that the member wishing to trade email you for the combination. I myself would not visit a cache of this type or would I want my COIN or TB locked in someones cache, by doing this you would keep members who have never experienced finding a COIN / TB from getting one from your cache, If you wish to do It with Coins / TB you own so be it. Just my 2 cents but I'm sure others think the same way...

Who said anything about TBs? This is a machine that allows geocachers to trade geocoins. If you are going to gripe about my idea, find something legitimate to gripe about!

 

Re all of these posts, what part of this, from my OP, don't you understand?

PLEASE keep this thread to how-to ideas - whether you like the idea, would or wouldn't hunt it, object to cameras, think the idea stinks - I do not care! Keep it to yourself!

 

If, on the other hand, you think it's interesting and want to submit ideas on how it might be done, thanks! Feel free to post!

 

Thank you to all legitimate posters!

Ed

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eh, nevermind, if I thought this idea was based on reality I might have an opinion.

I seriously doubt that it would be of interest. Was this posted simply to insult me? Do you have any reason whatsoever to doubt me or my motivation?

 

Doubt your motivation? No.

 

Question? Yes.

 

By the way, how's that world view thing working for ya.

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I enjoy to tinker, this one has got me thinking. Although I am not really crazy about the idea but to incorporate everything together and work may be complicated. Right off the top of my head would be some concerns. Is the camera running all the time (motion, electronic switch, CCTV, camcorder, digital manual). My first thought would be to have a cheap camcorder set up inside. Use a key drop box - something that has a tray that pulls out - install a electronic switch inside so when the tray is pulled out the camera starts to record (set it up with a timer so that when the tray is shut it will record additional time). Well that was the easy part - (getting the coin in) now to get one in return (give me some time).

 

One other thought would be an old vending machine that would (or could be easily modified) accept a large coin. Fill the container with containers that hold an individual coin. Install the camera on a motion sensor. The hard part would be to find the machine that is cheap and that would work outside and not have mechanical problems.

 

Any way you look at it this could be done but could be time consuming and expensive to get it working properly.

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An automated geocoin prison. What a great idea!

200 or so geocoins, mostly unactivated and uncirculated, sit in my collection and are traded at events and with friends - how exactly is that a prison? I trade 1 for 1 in person, or the machine trades 1 for 1 - where's the beef?

 

 

Since you asked, I'll answer. Forcing anyone to trade coins or bugs 1 for 1 restricts their movement. Hence the term Travel Bug Prison. A coin could be stuck for months in such a cache before it could be moved if people didn't have one to trade for it. You think that's why someone paid for and released a coin or TB, to have it sit trapped in a cache for months because some cache owner imposed his own rules on coins that weren't his own? No. And that's my beef.

 

Good TB Hotels

 

Bad TB Hotels (Prisons)

 

Your dispenser, as described, would end up on the second list.

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"You think that's why someone paid for and released a coin or TB, to have it sit trapped in a cache for months because some cache owner imposed his own rules on coins that weren't his own? No. And that's my beef."

 

Part of the problem with your scenario is that geocoins are different than ordinary travel bugs. There are even separate sections for each. People are less inclined to make off with a whole box of travel bugs than they are geocoins. If you read the geocoin forums, there have been several cachers that have put out geocoin caches to have all the coins taken by someone. Personally I don't appreciate having my coins placed in a person's pocket after spending several hundreds of dollars on them. For example, I placed three of my coins in one cache, I am now missing two coins.

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"You think that's why someone paid for and released a coin or TB, to have it sit trapped in a cache for months because some cache owner imposed his own rules on coins that weren't his own? No. And that's my beef."

 

Part of the problem with your scenario is that geocoins are different than ordinary travel bugs. There are even separate sections for each. People are less inclined to make off with a whole box of travel bugs than they are geocoins. If you read the geocoin forums, there have been several cachers that have put out geocoin caches to have all the coins taken by someone. Personally I don't appreciate having my coins placed in a person's pocket after spending several hundreds of dollars on them. For example, I placed three of my coins in one cache, I am now missing two coins.

 

Coin theft will happen. I've had them get stolen too. It's unfortunate, but by releassing a coin it's the risk we take. Coins are released for one reason - to move from cache to cache. That's the point of a geocoin. By restricting their movement, you're going against the wishes of the person who released the coin. That is my point, and is one major problem with the design of the machine being discussed here. As a TB and coin owner, I would not want one of my coins in a cache such as this. Remove the 1 for 1 trade requirement, and I'd have no problem with it, as it could potentially help prevent coin theft... at least in TAR's yard.

 

Edit to remain on topic: the MACHINE shouldn't be DESIGNED around a 1 for 1 trade restriction. But it should probably run on 110 AC current. :laughing:

Edited by DocDiTTo
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I think people are missing what Alabama Rambler is trying to say. He is not going to put someones coin in there that is activated. He is going to put his doubles in there and when you find the coin machine you deposit a coin that you want to trade into the machine and get one. This is no different than me taking coins that I have purchased two of and trading with someone at an event. Atleast that is how I took what he was saying to mean Alabama Rambler if I'm wrong please say so. If that is what you are trying to do I think it is a cool idea but i'm not sure how to make it come to life.

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I enjoy to tinker, this one has got me thinking. Although I am not really crazy about the idea but to incorporate everything together and work may be complicated. Right off the top of my head would be some concerns. Is the camera running all the time (motion, electronic switch, CCTV, camcorder, digital manual). My first thought would be to have a cheap camcorder set up inside. Use a key drop box - something that has a tray that pulls out - install a electronic switch inside so when the tray is pulled out the camera starts to record (set it up with a timer so that when the tray is shut it will record additional time). Well that was the easy part - (getting the coin in) now to get one in return (give me some time).

 

One other thought would be an old vending machine that would (or could be easily modified) accept a large coin. Fill the container with containers that hold an individual coin. Install the camera on a motion sensor. The hard part would be to find the machine that is cheap and that would work outside and not have mechanical problems.

 

Any way you look at it this could be done but could be time consuming and expensive to get it working properly.

 

I said webcam, but I was thinking digital still images, where when, say, a drawer or door is opened it fires two cameras, one on the visitor and one on the item being deposited.

 

So, the visitor opens a door and deposits a coin, the visitor and deposit are photographed.

 

A tube with a servo-operated door at the bottom could open at the same time to release a coin.

 

Since geocoins are such a hot issue, let's call it a geo-swag vending machine. Place any item of geo-swag and get one in trade.

 

Thanks for the ideas!

Ed

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Pardon my ignorance, but having never traded a coin I'd like to know if they're all the same size and weight, because that could make such a machine feasable. If not, then I have trouble seeing a way through this one. For the most part geocaching is anonymous. You'll never see my picture posted on this website, so if your camera photos me at the cache you may not know who it is. I find that people often target a specific cache just for the geocoin, which leads me to believe that if they've grown to expect a camera, then they might come prepared :D . You'd almost need something with a wireless internet connection to connect with GC.com so that the person could enter their name and password securely, then have the recieved coin photographed to verify that it isn't just a slug, should some future individual discover the false swap. Then, if it does turn out to be a false swap, there's the question of who's going to play the role of geo-cop?

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Pardon my ignorance, but having never traded a coin I'd like to know if they're all the same size and weight, because that could make such a machine feasable. If not, then I have trouble seeing a way through this one. For the most part geocaching is anonymous. You'll never see my picture posted on this website, so if your camera photos me at the cache you may not know who it is. I find that people often target a specific cache just for the geocoin, which leads me to believe that if they've grown to expect a camera, then they might come prepared :D . You'd almost need something with a wireless internet connection to connect with GC.com so that the person could enter their name and password securely, then have the recieved coin photographed to verify that it isn't just a slug, should some future individual discover the false swap. Then, if it does turn out to be a false swap, there's the question of who's going to play the role of geo-cop?

 

Nah, not at all interested in playing geocop! I just think folks act better when they know they are being watched, is all.

 

Anyone can defeat whatever machine I might build, so I won't even try at enforcement.

 

Remote cameras such as those for wildlife trails are cheap, I have seen them for $35, buit I wouldn't take anyone's picture without stating it on the cache listing, and even on the dispinsing machine.

 

I might even place visible cameras that don't work, as the pics themselves are of no value whatsoever, unless I post them on the cache page as a visitors scrapdook!

 

Kinda like a geocache with a camera in it, as long as there is an opt-out, like a warning on the listing page and dispenser that says "Don't come unless you want your picture taken and posted!"

 

Fortunately we have a wonderful geocaching community here in Alabama, and have very few issues. Taking all the available geocoins, unfortunately, is one we have had.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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How about building a machine with two drawers in it. Each drawer has a hole in the bottom about 1/4 inch in diameter. Put an electro magnet lock on each drawer. A simple photo led could create logic for whether the hole is covered or not. Build a circuit that allows the following parameters to be meet.

 

1+1 (Both holes covered) Either drawer can be opened.

1+0 only the right drawer can be opened

0+1 only the left drawer can be opened.

 

Also when ever the circuit detects a 1+1 condition it takes a picture of each drawer and the droppee. If you used a webcam you could even link the most recent pictures to the cache page. That way an instant identification of the droppee would be public knowledge.

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Wow!

 

Is ANYONE capable of discussing the machine?

 

That's the topic of this thread - ideas about making a geocoin dipenser machine.

 

Can we please stick to that?

 

Thank you,

Ed

 

I think what you are trying to do is impossible. What is to keep someone from putting in a quarter or a half dollar or something?

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Wow!

 

Is ANYONE capable of discussing the machine?

 

That's the topic of this thread - ideas about making a geocoin dipenser machine.

 

Can we please stick to that?

 

Thank you,

Ed

 

I think what you are trying to do is impossible. What is to keep someone from putting in a quarter or a half dollar or something?

 

Nothing. And I don't care. Read the thread! Do you have any IDEAS to post?

 

Thanks,

Ed

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I have an idea about the hypothetical machine in question.

 

I think it's a bad idea. While you might initially stock it with unregistered coins that you own, what's to stop people from trading registered, traveling coins? This will serve to trap TBs that should be moving freely from cache to cache.

 

Beyond that, shouldn't this thread be moved to the 'Geocoin Discussions' area of the forums?

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I just looked at Ebay under dispensing machines. I saw several rather cheap possibilities. Some are kind of large though. You would have to find a way of modifying the coin intake size though. Which gave me another thought. Maybe you know someone with a comercial business that would allow you to place it inside?

 

El Diablo

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I had a gumball machine when I was young that operated on any coin (it was more of a bank than a vending machine). I'm sure you can get something like that and then put the coins into the plastic shells that toy vending machines use. Put in a coin, turn the crank, ball drops out and inside is the next geocoin. The person then should be asked to leave the shell (for refilling the machine with the input geocoins waiting inside the base of the machine).

 

The downfalls are that you need to outlay for the machine and plastic supplies as well as have enough coins to fill the machine for the first run.

 

Another potential problem (which exist regardless of what option you choose) are that the variety in geocoins will mean that your machine might need to accept such a wide range of coin (size/weight/etc) that many other coins (like pennies or nickels) will suffice to trigger the machine....leading to coins out for pennies.

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I like the idea of the machine as a trade item dispenser. My $.02 are - instead of stealing only coins the thiefs would steal the entire machine and the camera and my daughter who does not get out to cache very often likes the discover feature. She can see the coin, get the icon, and not have to worry about moving it along. She would be all for your idea though because her Travel Bug has been "missing" for months.

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Some great ideas coming in, Thanks!

 

I think I will focus its contents on geoswag since geocoins seemed to be so controversial, and Ju66ler's post feeds into that kind of machine.

 

So, same basic mission, just a geoswag dispenser that can recieve / dispense anything up to a certain logical size.

 

Keep on brainstorming!

 

Thanks again

Ed

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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I kind of like the idea. Seeeing a coin in a cache, what an idea. In close to 400 finds I have never once seen a coin in a cache. I have see them in nice binders at events where I could discover them. Allthough making people trade for them goes against the idea behind them.

 

Now for the idea. you would have to have several containers all the same size. Put a few empty ones on the side of the cache. Put a coin in one and put it in the machine. Than the machine dispenses one container containg a coin. Should be fairly simple to rig up.

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I think the best way to trade geocoins since they are not the same size and some come with plastic envelopes, etc. is that one might only be able to trade coins enclosed in a specific coin holder (uniform size for regular coins, uniform size for micros).

Then comes the problem of those who are less than honest about trading and put a washer or bus token in the coin case.

It's pretty difficult to make a machine that keeps dishonest folk honest.

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I'm not specifically into geocoins, however in reading this thread, I came up with a machine design that would both allow a geocoin to only be released if another one is put in it's place, and allow the person to choose between coins to take of the ones there. The problem is that it would only fit like... 10 coins or less.

 

Now imagine this. Think of something like the game "Connect 4". Only, only the bottom row is showing, and there's slots above each of them. You could easily set a mechanical system where if a coin is dropped into a slot, it will release the coin currently there (by hitting a lever on the way down the slot). After the first coin leaves, a spring returns the 'pin' holding the coin in place, stopping the coin dropped in from leaving.

 

The only way to break this system (well... aside from breaking the machine as well) would be that it would have no way of telling what's a washer/flat chunk of metal/etc and what's a coin. The 'lever' that the dropped coin hits could be designed in such a way (ie: slanted down, but flat bottom)that if you had a thin magnet on a string, you wouldn't be able to pull anything up from the top.

 

It'd take some trial and error to get it to work with the different sizes/shapes of coins, but if you place the 'lever' and 'release pin' so that it will reach up to near the center of the coin slot, it should be able to take any size/shape (up to the max size of the slot).

 

So yeah... idea for that. I don't have the materials or tools to build it myself (and as stated, I'm not a geocoin fanatic either :laughing:), but figured I'd toss the idea around to anyone who wants to try it.

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OK I can't tell you how this works and I didn't read all the replies, but I heard once of someone (not a cacher) who's house was about a mile from the road, so he had installed one of those bank tubes for his mail so he didn't have to drive out to the mailbox everyday.

 

Yeah I know that's probably expensive but maybe there is someway to duplicate that mechanism? Then you can set it up on some sort of automated thing that sends the coin when a coin is placed in it...ie. the trade coin comes first then yours goes out?

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Cool Idea.

 

I suspect that auctually having a system that is automated that could tell the difference between a geocoin and some other item someone could try to pass for a geocoin would be pretty near impossible. Geocoins come in all shapes and sizes. I do really like the idea. I suspect any system would not be completely fraud proof and would need to depend on a little bit of the honor system. But I suspect there may be ways to put something out to minimize your risk of theft.

 

Of course you could always get one of these machines.

 

c4a66d78-b0f8-4418-ac09-49681026ac78.jpg

 

You would be limited to trading for a certain kind of "coins" or of course dollars but that would be kind of cool

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I think forget security and work on the machine...as I mentioned above there's no way to stop a cheat.

 

Someone can swap a washer, slug, rock or sack of dog poo and there's no way to stop them, so I won't even try, other than having a camera!

 

Kabuthunk's idea sounds like something to work on maybe!

 

I changed it to the idea of geoswag in general instead of just geocoins, so slot coin vending machines are pretty much out.

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<snip>

 

The only way to break this system (well... aside from breaking the machine as well) would be that it would have no way of telling what's a washer/flat chunk of metal/etc and what's a coin. The 'lever' that the dropped coin hits could be designed in such a way (ie: slanted down, but flat bottom)that if you had a thin magnet on a string, you wouldn't be able to pull anything up from the top.

 

<snip>

None of my geocoins ae magnetic... Sounds pretty cool to me tho!

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I think forget security and work on the machine...as I mentioned above there's no way to stop a cheat.

 

Someone can swap a washer, slug, rock or sack of dog poo and there's no way to stop them, so I won't even try, other than having a camera!

 

Kabuthunk's idea sounds like something to work on maybe!

 

I changed it to the idea of geoswag in general instead of just geocoins, so slot coin vending machines are pretty much out.

Caching is a honor system as it is anyway there is always a chance of someone stealing coins / swag. Since the idea is now not only coins, they have those machines that dispense sandwiches etc , would be possible to place a TB's in one of those boxes, and with a camera trigger could discourage theft, some thoughts, Glenn

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I think forget security and work on the machine...as I mentioned above there's no way to stop a cheat.

 

Someone can swap a washer, slug, rock or sack of dog poo and there's no way to stop them, so I won't even try, other than having a camera!

 

Kabuthunk's idea sounds like something to work on maybe!

 

I changed it to the idea of geoswag in general instead of just geocoins, so slot coin vending machines are pretty much out.

Caching is a honor system as it is anyway there is always a chance of someone stealing coins / swag. Since the idea is now not only coins, they have those machines that dispense sandwiches etc , would be possible to place a TB's in one of those boxes, and with a camera trigger could discourage theft, some thoughts, Glenn

 

When I owned a comic book store we bought a small vending machine, about 1.5 feet high by 2 feet wide. It had a single row for smaller snacks. How about putting coins into something like that? I am not sure you would be able to pay by a geocoin though, unless it had a tracking number scanner as you 'paid' :(

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I kind of like the idea. Seeeing a coin in a cache, what an idea. In close to 400 finds I have never once seen a coin in a cache. I have see them in nice binders at events where I could discover them. Allthough making people trade for them goes against the idea behind them.

 

Now for the idea. you would have to have several containers all the same size. Put a few empty ones on the side of the cache. Put a coin in one and put it in the machine. Than the machine dispenses one container containg a coin. Should be fairly simple to rig up.

 

Never once found a coin!?

 

Come to our area,they are all over!

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I can see your dilemma. I like to share coins at more than events so have so far made 2 display caches and I have a coin trade cache available 24/7 - it's coords are only given out by email after a circuitous hunt. Probably too secure - no visitors! so they all mostly go in and out by post; even the traveling coins arrive by post!

 

but probably the best solution I have seen is the Trove travel bug. It's an ammo can for sig items that is passed mostly hand to hand around australia collecting sigitems. It's trackable. You could stock one and watch it go and mission it to return in a year bearing goodness knows what coins :(

 

PS. sorry it's not an automatic machine but so far the concept is actually working.

Edited by forthferalz
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PLEASE keep this thread to how-to ideas - whether you like the idea, would or wouldn't hunt it, object to cameras, think the idea stinks - I do not care! Keep it to yourself!

 

The only idea I have is to post an armed guard by the cache to make sure the trades happen. Otherwise everything will just get stolen.

 

Good luck.

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I found a vending machine chatroom, maybe you could ask the people who are in the business for any advice they might have?

 

My only other idea was to have a note in the cache asking cachers to ring the doorbell, but you probably aren't home enough for that. You're a geocacher after all.

 

My bad idea was too frustrating. Get one of those machines that has the claw and cachers have to try to grab a coin, but it would never be able to pick up a coin. It would be fun to watch from your window though.

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