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Why do people complain about micros...


BiT

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Micros are harder to find and can be hard on the surrounding environment when placed in an improper location. This also leads to other bashing of heads and ideas when said finding difficulty intersects with secrecy from muggles, etc.

 

I think those might be a few reasons. I haven't found any yet, but don't mind the search, or just ignore 'em if I don't want to.

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And very often, a micro is hidden somewhere to just be another smiley...and less about a neat location. That's not to say every micro is bad or that every regular size brings you to a breathtaking spot. But it's easier to drop a micro with 5 seconds of thought behind it and move along to the next hide.

 

I enjoy well done CACHES...regardless of size. Give me a neat container, or a nice spot, or an interesting walk, etc., etc.

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And very often, a micro is hidden somewhere to just be another smiley...and less about a neat location. That's not to say every micro is bad or that every regular size brings you to a breathtaking spot. But it's easier to drop a micro with 5 seconds of thought behind it and move along to the next hide.

 

I enjoy well done CACHES...regardless of size. Give me a neat container, or a nice spot, or an interesting walk, etc., etc.

 

You have a point, but I see it as an unstated complaint about time investment. It generally takes a little bit longer to find most micros given the various factors affecting your GPSr the hider's GPSr and the greatly increased number of possible hiding spots to check which equals less time to cram as many caches as you possibly can into the time allotted.

Edited by Snoogans
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Well this applies, to me it is rare for me to trade anything when at a cache, I don’t look for micros as more often than not, micros are hidden in a high muggle area and to me this is not where I want to be looking for a cache. I tend not to enjoy the need to be sneaky.

 

It is just I feel so out of place, and feel like everybody is looking at me and wondering what I am up to.

 

I have done a few and in the right area I might do a few more. I even did one in a parking lot once but I am not likely going to do another parking lot cache again.

 

I would not say that I hate micros. Just that I hate having to be sneaky while looking for them.

 

Jim

Kc8bdr

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Its not micros that people complain about, its thoughtlessly placed caches. Its just that the overwhelming majority of micros fall into this category. There are thoughtlessly placed regular caches too, but the percehtage seems to be far lower.

 

My guess is that if someone goes through the trouble of choosing a quality container and contents they are more likely to put some thought into where it's hidden.

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In my experience, more of the lame (my opinion of course) caches that we have found are micros. I agree with KoosKoos in why this happens so often.

 

As far as trading, when we first started that was something we loved doing but we tend not to trade very often now days. I'm sure i have left a TN/LN log in the past but i usually leave a little something to read at most every cache we visit!

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Just curious, why to people complain about micro all the time when they themselves just TNLN on small and regular caches?

 

I’m not sure that people hate micros. I certainly don’t. I’ve found some really cool micros! I think the biggest concern is what they’ve come to represent. Today it seems that the majority of micros are placed with no thought what so ever. They are placed under lamp post skirting in a parking lot, behind shopping centers near a dumpster, on the side of the road in the middle of no where, etc….

 

You will see the log TNLNSL on all types of caches. These usually represent the finder’s thoughts on the cache. Basically they didn’t find the cache challenging or interesting. Although some are just too lazy to write a decent log.

 

I think that the majority would like to place a cache that people would enjoy hunting, but the majority of good hiding places are taken. They are now left with hiding micros in some of the most unlikely places that a cacher would like to go. Although some cachers don’t care where the cache is hidden, they just want the smiley.

 

We have a relatively new cacher in the area that hid a micro for his first cache that was a challenge to find, but in a spot that wasn’t very interesting (Gas station), still not a bad cache. He gathered from the logs that people like this type of cache, so he just placed another that is on the side of the road in a trash filled area in the middle of no where. He also posted that he would be hiding these everywhere!

 

The bad part is as he starts placing these he will nullify good caching spots due to the distance limitations on cache placements. For every roadside cache he places, no one else can place a cache within .10 of a mile. The first one he placed at the gas station will nullify a great park across the road.

 

Bottom line is, I don’t hate micros, I just hate where they are placed.

 

El Diablo

Edited by El Diablo
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I feel that it all boils down to "time". It takes time to find the cache, it takes time to think and remember which cache you were at, and it takes time to create a thoughtful meaningful creative log.

 

In this era of disposable conveniences and quick rewards some folks just want that smile and if they have to write 30 meaningful logs to get 30 smiles what route do you think you would take - TNLN and now you have your smile.

 

Now this does not happen all the time but it does none the less even on some of the "epic" caches. I have left short notes, you have left short notes - I was miffed, tired, got busted or whatever reason.

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You can't trade travel bugs in micro - irritating when you have to drop one off!

 

Why would you be irritated? It usually says on the listing that it's a micro. It stands to reason that you would take time to hunt an appropriate cache to help that TB if that was truly your intent.... Does the mountain always need to come to you?

Edited by Snoogans
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I'll offer a perspective from the other side of things too, which asks "Why do people just TNLN?"

 

My idea of a perfect cache is one where I am reasonably isolated when I find it (say, at least 50 feet off the trail in dense enough woods that if I am sitting down by the cache, people will not see me). It is bone dry inside. There are no broken toys, soggy logbooks, moldy badges, bits of grass or dead bugs, etc. Ideally, it's a warm sunny day and the bugs aren't too bad.

 

When I find the perfect cache, I sit down. I leaf through the logbook reading about the exploits of those that came before me. I sift through the cache contents and make a trade. I take pictures. I admire the scenery.

 

But if the log book is soggy, the place is swamped with bugs, the swag is crappy, soggy, or moldy, or there's too much risk someone will find me while I'm still in there, then I just sign the log and get the heck out. TNLN.

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You can't trade travel bugs in micro - irritating when you have to drop one off!

 

Thats not true. You just have to do a little bit of work. All you really need to make a tb is the number. if you modify the tag the bug is still trackable so you just cut off the number and add that to your small TB. Most of the time you can fit this type of modified TB in a 35mm canister or small tubes. there are even some very creative ones out there that the tage its self has been modiied and turned int a TB

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In general I don't hate micros - they have there place and I have had a lot of fun finding many of them.

 

My complaint about them is two fold.

1 - Very little thought or effort is put into many of them - what I call the film-can-in-a-bush syndrome.

2 - They are often used as a cheap (inexpensive) substitute in areas where a larger cache is more appropriate. This leads to uneccessary damage to some areas and just plain frustration when seekers realize that a larger cache could easily be hidden in the same general area.

 

Having said that - I have been to many fine examples of excellent and well thought out micros. Just wish I could say that about many more of them.

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Glancing through the recent posts, I found a couple of points that are frequently made in this type of thread.

 

The first point is that a micro in a horrible location blocks a cache from being placed in a good spot. I've got to say that I believe that this problem is very rare. I doubt that there are very many great spots that are within .10 mile of horrible spots. Further, how many of these great spots are completely within that small amount of area 'blocked' by the bad location? Very, very few, I bet.

 

The second point deals with the belief that most micros are placed thoughtlessly, while most larger caches are not. While I want to just say 'Bull Pucky!', that would be doing a disservice to the issue.

 

Certainly, when I first started geocaching one of the things I liked about the game was wandering along a trail to find a box next to a tree. However, that wasn't my primary driver and, frankly, there are only so many caches that can be placed along local trails. This changed the game, somewhat. Caches began to be hidden in smaller parks and 'alternative areas'. These new areas included areas that could not support regular-sized caches. Micros were born. Micros could be hidden in urban locations and were found (and accepted) by new geocachers. Many of these new geocachers have no interest in hiking or trading. They like the caches they have found and hide caches that are similar. Those that only like the game for the hikes and the toys will find these caches to be lame. Others will disagree.

 

I should have stuck with 'Bull Pucky!'. It was plenty descriptive and much more concise.

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SWAG MAN! Iffin it ain't got no SWAG.........why bother!!!!???

 

Us pirates gotta have SWAG to loosen our joints (wish I had a joint!)...oil our hinges and smooth

the way over all that bush-whacking! :laughing:

 

If that is the case you must be a junk collector. The only things i have found in caches that i take are travel bugs and there are ways to make them for micros. the rest of it is usually usless peices of junk.

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2 - They are often used as a cheap (inexpensive) substitute in areas where a larger cache is more appropriate. This leads to uneccessary damage to some areas and just plain frustration when seekers realize that a larger cache could easily be hidden in the same general area.

So a cacher goes to an area, finds a micro, realizes a larger cache could have been placed, and gets so frustrated that he decides to trash the place?

 

That's absurd.

 

I can think of only one CacheR in these forums that might feel strong enough about cache size to do that, but I doubt he'd actually damage an area after finding a micro.

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2 - They are often used as a cheap (inexpensive) substitute in areas where a larger cache is more appropriate. This leads to uneccessary damage to some areas and just plain frustration when seekers realize that a larger cache could easily be hidden in the same general area.

So a cacher goes to an area, finds a micro, realizes a larger cache could have been placed, and gets so frustrated that he decides to trash the place?

 

That's absurd.

 

I can think of only one CacheR in these forums that might feel strong enough about cache size to do that, but I doubt he'd actually damage an area after finding a micro.

Clarification....

 

Damage due to excess searching for a small cache container in an inappropriate area not damage due to frustration over finding it.

 

less absurd now?

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I think that both hiders and seekers should be responsible to ensure that no damage is done. While some hide techniques are more likely to result in some damage and therefore, more maintenance, that does not necessarily make those techniques or the size of the caches bad.

 

BTW, I always laugh when I read the 'inexpensive' argument. Very frequently, people pay me from ten to twenty dollars for a micro cache container. Most regular caches I've found were junk drawer items hidden in a used bowl from the kitchen cabinet or a coffee can (or similar item) that would have gone into the trash. The total cost approaching $0.

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Is the TNLN in question in the online log or in the logbook? I generally only sign my name and date in the logbook because my handwriting is so bad but I write much more online, regardless of the size of the cache.

 

<rant>On a related note, I'm very tired of the "TNLNSL" online logs on caches. This is a very lazy and lame practice! If you can't come up with something, *anything*, descriptive to write about a cache then maybe you shouldn't log caches online. </rant>

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Just curious, why to people complain about micro all the time when they themselves just TNLN on small and regular caches?

 

Depends not all micros are bad, they have a location and a place, but two kinds i don't particularly care for are when: (1) they are located in uninspiring locations --- such as in parking lots. (2) placed in the woods where a larger cache would fit and suffice.

 

I think people don't trade now since they hit so many micros when they come to a regular size cache they forget to bring swag to trade. ;)

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1) Micros take longer to find.

Takes me about 5 seconds to find a 35mm film can under a lamppost cover. Typical ammo can takes 20 mins to hike to cache, 10 minutes to search for UPS, a few minutes to look through the swag and find the log to sign, a minute to rehide the cache (got to get those sticks just right), 20 minutes to hike back. For me there are times when even a well camo'ed cleverly hidden micro can take less time than regular or small in the same location. I usually can find a micro hidden in the woods faster than larger caches by thinking about where it might be hidden. The only exception are needle-in-the-haystack type hide which could take a long time, but one of the toughest one of these that I've done was an ammo can hidded in the riff-raff along the river.

 

2) Micros are poorly thought out, lame, or cheap caches.

They can be. They can also be some of the most cleaver, devious, and challenging hides. And some times you just want to find another lamppost micro - nothing wrong with a real easy one now and then. I understand those that complain about location on some of these, but I believe that geocaching attracts different people. Some prefer a long hike, others prefer grabing a few caches on the shopping run to Wal*Mart. Edit: I've also seen plenty of Gladware or used food containers with one or two broken toys hiddden in trash shrewn bushes. It doesn't have to be a micro to be lame or cheap.

 

3) People tear up the environment looking for micros

Shame on them. The fact that the cache is a micro (even a needle-in-the-haystack variety) is no excuse to tear up the environment. If the cache was hidden without tearing up the environment, it can be found without tearing up the environment. It may be a regional thing - but here in So. California, regular caches are hidden under bushes, on hillsides, with hundreds of bushes to look under. I do considerable more damage looking for regular caches than I do if I know its a micro. In that case, I use my eyes and my brain and a more methodical search that has no impact on the environment.

Edited by tozainamboku
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Just curious, why to people complain about micro all the time when they themselves just TNLN on small and regular caches?

 

I TNLN because I don't really care about the contents of the cache. On occasion I'll look through the stuff out of curiosity, but aside from a tiny compressed gas cylinder that struck me as a bad idea, I've never taken anything from a cache. And since I haven't found any Cool Loot that I would consider buying to place in a cache, I haven't left anything either.

 

And I like micros. So far, in fact, I like them better than regular size caches. I enjoy trying to figure out where the sneaky so-and-so might have hidden an urban micro, especially where countless people walk by it every day, none the wiser.

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When I first started caching I would read the description and every single log on a cache trying to determine what SWAG was in it so I could take appropriate SWAG with me to trade up without carrying the whole store along. I quickly discovered that although most hiders are great about listing original contents, few finders are, so the items I would be hoping to find, like coins from other countries, were always missing with no clue who took what. For that reason I finally gave up on trading and just sign the log with TNLN. Online I'll post a brief descriptive log for an "uninspriring" cache and the best log I can think up for quality caches.

If I do encounter an item in a cache I really like I just leave money now, like in this cache.

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Its not micros that people complain about...
No, I know quite a few people who complain about and ignore micros. I laugh when I see them logging an occasional micro.

 

I'm surprised at how many cachers put a lot of importance on swag trading. If I put all of the geocache swag I have ever grabbed in one hand (it would probably fit) and sell it for top dollar, it wouldn't pay my gas to any cache near me.

 

For me, it's all about the hunt, and a well-placed micro is as much fun as a well-placed ammo can. The key is "well-placed." I've seen WAIH* caches of all sizes.

 

* WAIH = Why Am I Here?

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Just curious, why to people complain about micro all the time when they themselves just TNLN on small and regular caches?

 

Many know, as I have said many times, that I simply prefer micros to ammo cans - just my preference. The truth is that most on my online logs are larger than the micros that I found . . . have never used the TNLNSL thingy as I believe that anyone who took the time, went to the expense and made the effort to give me a cache to find and a smiley to earn deserves more.

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I'm surprised at how many cachers put a lot of importance on swag trading. If I put all of the geocache swag I have ever grabbed in one hand (it would probably fit) and sell it for top dollar, it wouldn't pay my gas to any cache near me.

If you took all of the photographs of your family that you own and tried to sell them, you probably wouldn't make much money either. It's the not market value of the trade items that's important. I like how they remind me of caches I've been to, just like I like how old family pictures remind me of stuff that happened a long time ago.

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Well, I would never say that I HATE micros, but they're certainly not my first choice when picking caches to find. Primarily this is because I've developed an addiction to finding signature items (yep, it's an irrational rush to open a lock'n'lock and discover somebody's painted rock or wooden nickel, heh), and the chances of nabbing one from a micro are fairly slim. Also, urban micros are often hidden in heavily trafficked locations, and it's difficult to find the proverbial needle in the haystack when Questionable Hygiene Man and the Crackhead Kid are watching your every move.

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I guess we all have our favorite type of Geocache with a preference for container, hide difficulty and hike. I think an ammo can, reasonably well hidden with 1-3km return hike to a real pretty or unusual spot is my favorite. I am not a fan of Multi's especially the ones with over two stages and no real point to any of the stages, some can be well done though. Not real excited about puzzle caches unless they show/tell me something about the Geocache area and are done on the hunt vs at home before the hunt. Micros are not really a favorite of mine but can be some of the most clever, devious, and challenging hides. In a way I sort of like the very public ones that you have to be discreet logging. As for the lamp post/guardrail micro - nothing wrong with a real easy find now and then. I believe that Geocaching is done by different people with different likes. Some prefer a hike, others prefer a stop and grab. All that said if there is only one Geocache in town you know who is going to be looking for it.

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Just curious, why to people complain about micro all the time when they themselves just TNLN on small and regular caches?

I don't understand it at sll either. Micros aew coolif you ask me even the ones in lampools. I think there is jusr to much junk in them to trade for so they complain about that. People probaply complain about minnies just to have something to rgue about. lol I lick them all.

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Its not micros that people complain about, its thoughtlessly placed caches. Its just that the overwhelming majority of micros fall into this category. There are thoughtlessly placed regular caches too, but the percehtage seems to be far lower.

 

My guess is that if someone goes through the trouble of choosing a quality container and contents they are more likely to put some thought into where it's hidden.

I would add that a thoughtlessly placed urban regular is more likely to get axed by a muggle than a thoughtlessly placed micro. Hence, micros tend to have a higher lame-to-good ratio, so to speak. On the one hand there's people who, quite literally, drive around with a glove compartment full of identical micros that they place at random in the exact same way...until the city is thoroughly filled with them. Then there are those like one I got a couple of days ago where the owner emailed me to tell me of the unbelievably elaborate technique she and her husband used to make it :o . Both survive without a hitch. It seems to be the regulars that drop off the radar.

 

A second point I might add is that I personally feel foolish if I think I put more effort into finding the flippin' thing than the owner put into hiding it. That happens more often with micros because they're easier to hide and harder to find. It's like a dog jumping through hoops to please his lazy master, in the hope for a doggie biscuit.

 

Oh, yes, and there's the "great big present under the tree" feeling I get from bigger caches. I know it's irrational. I once got an ammo box on a mountain top and loved it, then hiked down the hill and found a micro stuffed into a reflector: which do you suppose I enjoyed more.

 

Why do we complain? I try not to, generally, because a seemingly thoughtlessly placed cache may actually turn out to be someone's pride and joy. You knever know :ph34r:

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As a relative newbie, I have been hunting the ones in my neighborhood so far. I enjoy finding a micro and haven't yet gotten into hiking for larger caches.

 

As others have said, micros can be hidden in urban areas. Try leaving an ammo box in a park around here and you'll come back to find the bomb squad robot x-raying it to see what is inside.

 

A few of the micros I found were extremely inventive hides that exhibited great ingenuity in creating and hiding them. Others were just 35 mm film containers, but it is still exciting to find them.

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As a relative newbie to caching (got involved less than two months ago), I'm finding this thread quite interesting. Here are my thoughts/reactions to points made by other posters.

 

1. I have to agree on the idea that some urban micros are on the lame side. The first cache I was introduced to was a film-can-in-a-lamp (yes, at a Wal-Mart! <G>), and I thought it was pretty cool. However, even after such a short time, my reaction on finding my GPSr pointing at a lamp post is already starting to be "Groan, not another boring film can in a lamp skirt".

 

2. I'm also rapidly growing less tolerant of urban hides in dirty and/or unsafe places.

It's one thing to find a cleverly-hidden micro (or any other size cache) in a CLEAN AND SAFE spot behind or near a store or shopping center, and another to be searching in an area which has trash, broken bottles, containers of rat poison, reeks of human urine, shows signs of homeless occupation, shows signs of being a drug user hangout, etc.

Not to mention that some hiders seem to be oblivious to the clear signs of rat occupation often found in landscaped areas at shopping centers. Hello, if there are RAT SIZED HOLES all through the area, there's a rat colony. I cache with my dogs, and more than once the lurcher (who used to rat hunt with my Jack Russell) has alerted me that Mr. Rat is at home... in fact, she once nearly pulled me off my feet trying to get a rat that scuttled out from the bushes two feet from a hide.

 

3. On "TNLNSL" - I usually write at least a couple of sentences. However, sometimes, I have nothing good to say about a cache. Sometimes, I'm in a hurry when logging. And sometimes, I was caching with others, and they actually located the cache, so there's not much else to say. <G>

 

4. On swag - I've only got a paltry 30 caches to my credit, but I have to agree on the lameness of the trade items in a lot of caches. Doesn't bother me, since the main enjoyment for me is the hunt, but I DO like it when a cache actually has some cool or handy items in it. Even if I don't trade anything, I like looking at it.

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With a micro, you pretty much know going in that you will TNLN.

 

With a regular, you go with the expectation that there might be something cool in it (even though experience says there probably won't be). It is that expectation that adds just a little bit to the hunt.

 

With a regular, at least you can imagine that you might find something interesting inside.

 

I TNLN because I generally don't find anything I want or I don't have anything to trade.

 

But then, I don't often complain about micros either so maybe I'm not the one to ask.

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Re: TBs. I know exactly what the writer was talking about. You've got a TB to drop off and everything even remotely near you all of a sudden became micros!

 

Re: Lame micros. I love micros. We've found them in tree knotholes, bricks, even pretending to be the period at the end of a sentence. But I took a bunch of kids caching a couple weeks ago and 3 out of the 5 caches we found were those *&^%* lampost hides. Lampost hides need to be banned if they are as common as is implied on here. Or have their own notation that lets you know before you even click on the link what they are. By the third one even the kids were bored and went straight to it. The "hunt" is supposed to be part of the fun. There's no hunt and no fun if you know where the thing is before you even get pulled into the parking lot. That's not geocaching, that's geojunking.

 

Re: Swag. I always figured the SWAG was for the kids and never expected it to be of any great use. Trade McD toys for more McD toys. My little geo-buddy (aka Number One Son) doesn't like micros nearly as much as regular caches because it's that whole "treasure chest" feeling. The cache could be full of gravel and he'd Ooooh and Aaaah over every stone (and want to take them all home with us). I do take issue with owners who don't pay attention and won't clean up their caches when someone logs that their cache is soaking wet. Maintenance, People!

 

My two cents worth.

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