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One of the Sickest Caches in North America, With a Big Cash Prize!


Vinny & Sue Team
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A few days ago, I posted an update about PUC #13 on the local MGS forum in response to an inquiry from a poster on that forum about any news of recent or upcoming atempts to seek this cache. Some folks have suggested that I also post much the same report to the national forums as well, and so here is my update:

 

As is true with many caches, there were a number of "unofficial" never-logged DNFs -- all by out-of-state cache hunters -- on the PUC #13 cache during the first couple of months of its life. To my best knowledge, things have been very quiet on the PUC #13 front since the last week of October (there had been several failed attempts in early and mid-October, some of which I had witnessed from the shore.) As far as attempts for next year, Fergus told Sue at a recent event that he still wants to be the first to reach the cache via traditional climbing techniques, but that he needs to wait till late spring due to current water temperatures in the river. And, I think that Katie (the esteemed Katerbug) is still planning on tackling this one via climbing, if school-related chores do not get in the way (she attends a university which is located mere yards from the cache site.)

 

The team of two cachers from NJ -- who have accumulated about 3 or 4 unlogged DNFs on this cache -- has advised me that they plan to return in the spring to tackle PUC #13 via vertical rope work. The thing that has stymied them so far has been the task of getting the lead line (fishing line) over the top of the pylon. They have, to my knowldege, tried rockets (one of the pair is a high-school science teacher and the moderator of the school rocket club), tossed weights, and a bow and arrow (both of which were lost in the river in short order...). Recently, Larry (LPYankeefan) of Team Psycho (the FTF team) offered his assistance to any future seekers going after this cache, and I suspect that the NJ team will be eternally grateful if Larry and some of the other members of Team Psycho were willing to meet them onsite some weekend give them a hand in getting the lead line over the top!

 

Oh, and there are some rumors afoot -- largely among some members of Team Psycho -- that I may be contemplating placing another extreme Psycho Urban Cache or two in the near future... I deny everything! :laughing::laughing::laughing:

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When placing these caches I assume that there is no responsibility on the owners of the cache. For example if someone was seriously hurt or died they could not be taken to court? That is the only way I would ever consider hiding an extreme cache such as these.

The issue of potential liability has been discussed several times in past weeks on these forums, and the facts are simply as follows:

  • most serious extreme caches, including all of mine, display appropriate and accurate Difficulty and Terrain ratings on the cache listing page, along with warnings about many of the known dangers, hazards and special equipment or skills needed.
  • most extreme caches, including all of mine, have disclaimers of liability on the cache listing page, in addition to the standard geocaching.com waiver of liability. While some wags love to claim that such written disclaimers, waivers and cautions are not worth much if a person really wants to litigate, I personally feel that they still have some value, and at least I know that any cache seeker has been forewarned -- to me, that is only civil and polite.
  • with one minor possible recent exception in England recently (involving an injury received while hiking through a park to reach a cache), there is simply no known history of geocachers suing cache owners or property owners for injuries. While geocachers do incur some injuries at times while seeking caches, they accept that such risks are part of exploring the outdoors. This is also true of most participants in most outdoor adventure sports.
  • our sport is actually quite safe compared to some other outdoor adventure sports. As a rock climber, caver (spelunker), scuba diver, kayaker and private pilot, I can tell you that people die or incur severe injuries every week pursuing almost every one of these outdoor adventure activities, and yet very few of those incidents ever end up in litigation of any kind. Rather, most people pursuing potentially dangerous outdoor adventure activities tend to accept personal responsibility for their own well-being rather than blame others.
  • lets face it: people are injured or killed every day while walking or driving to the store. In other words, being alive is dangerous in itself, and each of us will eventually die. There are some risks to even being alive, and that is simply part of life! No one is ever totally safe, even if they are hiding under their bed.
  • and lets also face the fact that you are NEVER totally safe from exposure to litigation, even if you choose to spend the rest of your life hiding under your bed. In our modern litigious society, people have been sued because someone did not like the color of their house, or because of the way they mowed their lawn, or the fact that the litigant felt that the person looked at them wrongly. As I noted above, there are some risks to even being alive, and that is simply part of life! For one example of such matters, I am a research scientist who often works with developing new nutritional supplements. I was unexpectedly sued several years ago -- from totally out of the blue -- for 13 million dollars by a nutritional supplement company (with which I had no dealings or relationship at all) as a "preemptive proactive" measure to try to harrass me to prevent me from performing some research which I was doing in a newly-discovered niche in the realm of nutritional compounds; they were tyring to use the harrassment as a preemptive strike to limit potential competition. (If you are wondering about the outcome, I ignored the lawsuit and the company eventually came to its senses and their president personally called me to apologize and to tell me that he was retracting the civil lawsuit and firing the in-house attorney/legal adviser who had recommended the lawsuit to him.) My point is that we can incur civil lawsuits even by being alive and breathing! Why bother to worry about it?
  • in closing, and this is a point that several other cache owners have recently made on these forums as well, my own reality is that even if someone wanted to sue me, I have no assetts and no fancy possessions, and thus there is no financial incentive to sue; they would get nothing, even if they won.
  • lastly, my own point of view is that worrying (as in worrying about potential litigation) never solves nor cures nor prevents anything, and rather, it only leads to a myriad of problems, including unhappiness and poor health!

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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Just a quick note for those who have been asking: I plan to submit the cache listing page for Psycho Urban Cache #14 in the next 24 hours. It will be rather nasty, and use of climbing (vertical rope work) gear and related skills will be essential. However, it will not be anywhere near as daunting as PUC #13. Due to the safety issues, this will be very much an elitist "cream of the crop" cache, in that a prerequisite for receiving the actual waypoint coordinates for the first stage will be that each seeker must have found at least nine (9) of our Psycho Urban Caches. Without those prerequisite nine PUC finds, a cacher cannot receive the actual coordinates for the first stage. If the reviewer should decide to publish this cache, it may be listed within the next week, but it may remain inactive/disabled for a few days until I get some final logistics in order.

 

By the way, for those folks who have been asking, no, I have not given up geocaching, but rather, as always, I hide and seek caches only when I feel inspired to do so. I am not at all compulsive or obsessive about geocaching, and it is not a primary activity for me, and I will sometimes go three weeks without placing or seeking a single cache. Instead, I simply hide or seek caches only when I feel moved by what I will call Holy Spirit or the angels to do so, and that does not happen on a daily basis. My Aussie wife Sue, on the other hand, probably devotes four or more days per week to geocaching activities! On the other hand, I do enjoy geocaching very much, and in the past ten months I completed the infamous Quantum Leap in Texas, did some geocaching in central Wisconsin, found some caches in Western Michigan while on a visit there two months ago, and even managed to place a couple of new Psycho Urban Caches... And, I may be doing a consulting gig in southern India again in the next month or two, and plan to drop some TBs and hunt a few more caches there if I do so.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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I am a research scientist who often works with developing new nutritional supplements. I was unexpectedly sued several years ago -- from totally out of the blue -- for 13 million dollars by a nutritional supplement company (with which I had no dealings or relationship at all) as a "preemptive proactive" measure to try to harrass me to prevent me from performing some research which I was doing in a newly-discovered niche in the realm of nutritional compounds; they were tyring to use the harrassment as a preemptive strike to limit potential competition. (If you are wondering about the outcome, I ignored the lawsuit and the company eventually came to its senses and their president personally called me to apologize and to tell me that he was retracting the civil lawsuit and firing the in-house attorney/legal adviser who had recommended the lawsuit to him.)

 

Nice guy. I think you should invite him to do your cache. :ph34r:

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Just a quick update:

 

Cache listing for PUC #14 has been submitted as a three-stage multi. GC106R4

 

The screening prerequisite for seekers to access the true coordinates for stage one is that any prospective seeker must have logged legitimate finds on at least 9 caches in our PUC series.

 

This cache will require rock climbing and caving skills and gear. Three cave-like openings; one of them a real (not pristine) cave. One tall cliff with a tiny fracture cavern halfway up it.

 

Now I wait and see if the reviewer decides to publish it; this is a reviewer who has never before reviewed any of my caches. I am at peace with either possible outcome.

 

If and when the cache is published by the reviewer, cache listing will be disabled for the first few days while I complete final logistical steps.

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Just a quick update:

 

Cache listing for PUC #14 has been submitted as a three-stage multi. GC106R4

 

The screening prerequisite for seekers to access the true coordinates for stage one is that any prospective seeker must have logged legitimate finds on at least 9 caches in our PUC series.

 

This cache will require rock climbing and caving skills and gear. Three cave-like openings; one of them a real (not pristine) cave. One tall cliff with a tiny fracture cavern halfway up it.

 

Now I wait and see if the reviewer decides to publish it; this is a reviewer who has never before reviewed any of my caches. I am at peace with either possible outcome.

 

If and when the cache is published by the reviewer, cache listing will be disabled for the first few days while I complete final logistical steps.

 

You should hire a video crew to film Team Psycho doing each of your PUC series. Then put it out on DVD. Since I doubt I'll ever do any of them... I'd by the DVD :D

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You should hire a video crew to film Team Psycho doing each of your PUC series. Then put it out on DVD. Since I doubt I'll ever do any of them... I'd by the DVD :lol:

That would be a great idea for a cache like PUC #13, where the location and nature of the hide are fully disclosed, but, for most of our caches, such a video would contain numerous TOTAL spoilers, and would also reveal the locations of two caches (PUC #9 and the pending PUC #14) which are kept secret from the general geocaching public and rather are only shared with geocaches who have satisfied certain prerequisite requirements. Thus, distribution of such a video would totally destroy the nature of the hide.

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Just a quick update for those following the release of PUC #14, the sequel to PUC #13, and located only a few miles from the PUC #13 site:

 

The reviewer for PUC #14 has advised me that the reviewing process has been largely completed and that all necessary questions have been answered, all needed permissions have been obtained, and all needed exceptions to geocaching.com guidelines have been granted, and that PUC #14 - Cliffs and Catacombs, aka GC106R4, will be published late on Wednesday evening, 1/10/2007. For those who have not yet heard of this cache, it has been on the drawing board and in research/planning stages for many months -- it involves three caves and also heavy rock-climbing skills and will require a full complement of vertical rope work gear for descent down the face of a sheer 65 foot cliff to a cave mouth located at about midway up from ground level. I spent much of this afternoon dangling on a 10 mm rope on that cliff face!

 

All three stages of the cache are in place, and the cache is ready to go once published. An earlier caveat that the cache might be disabled for a few days after publication to allow for some logistics to be completed is no longer true, and rather, the cache will be active and up and running the moment that it is published.

 

Please remember the prerequisite screening requirement of nine Psycho Urban Cache finds to be able to receive waypoint coordinates for the first stage of this extreme cache.

 

Have fun! <_<:tired::laughing:

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A brief update:

 

Keystone has just published Psycho Urban Cache #14 - Cliffside Catacombs, aka GC106R4. It is located a few miles from PUC #13.

 

Please remember that a prerequisite screening requirement for receiving the actual coordinates for the first stage of PUC #14 is that a cacher must meet either of the following requirements:

  • must have logged legitimate finds on at least nine caches from our Psycho Urban Cache series
  • OR
  • must have logged legitimate finds on PUC #13 and at least two other caches from our Psycho Urban Cache series

Lastly, I note that Keystone, when he published the cache, included a remark in his log note about a special exception (in the first sentence), which makes the cache sound rather mysterious; a copy of his log note follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Log Date: 1/10/2007

I am pleased to publish this cache under an exception to the listing guidelines, in light of its special nature. Good luck to the finders, and thank you Vinny & Sue Team for setting it up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

In reality, the special exception is the prerequisite screening requirment and the owner-disclosure of the waypoint coordinates via email, PM or telephone to qualified seekers.

 

Enjoy!

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A cache SO extreme that Vinny made me sign a release form before I could even open up the cache page to review it. In addition to my customary flak jacket and lab coat, under the terms of the release I had to wear protective eyewear until I was finished.

 

803f98fd-2874-4c32-bc4e-e485a5d61852.jpg

Keystone, what you report is entirely true, along with the fact that I demanded that you sign our standard non-disclosure agreement (NDA) before you would be allowed to view the cache listing page. However, please rest assured that you were not singled out for any special treatment or requirements, and you need to realize that Quiggle (our MD reviewer) was forced to sign the same NDA and release form as well before being allowed to review any of our Psycho Urban caches.

 

Thank you for your assistance on this matter; it was a pleasure working with you! Well, from my vantage point, it looks like we have completed all the hard work on placing this cache, and now it is just time for me to sit back and relax and read the obituary notices find logs for each of the seekers as they attempt to tackle this cache! :):)

 

:)

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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Several people have expressed dismay that the listing for #13 is for members only. I just started geocaching, and am curious what this is all about, but was bummed not to be able to read the description....

 

Seems like you choose not to reply to the people who aren't members and would like to read about #13.

 

Cathy

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Several people have expressed dismay that the listing for #13 is for members only. I just started geocaching, and am curious what this is all about, but was bummed not to be able to read the description....

 

Seems like you choose not to reply to the people who aren't members and would like to read about #13.

 

Cathy

The fact of the matter is that for ANY cache ever discussed for more than five minutes on the national forums which happens to be a Premium Member Only Cache (PMOC), there are always a few people who will write a post saying that they are dissapointed that the cache is a PMOC and that they wish that they could read the cache listing page. It is inevitable as night and day, as sunrise and sunset. It is not worth the effort to answer such posts most of the time. In the case of this particular cache (PUC #13), converting it to non-PMOC status for more than a day or two is not an option, and we already converted it to non-PMOC status once for three days to allow non-PMOC geocachers to view it. I really have no wish to do that again. Cathy, if you are REALLY REALLY REALLY wanting to see the cache listing page for PUC #13 so badly, why not spend $3 and purchase a one-month memership?

 

And, for our newest Psycho cache, PUC #14, converting it to non-PMOC status for even a short time, such as one day, is simply not an option due to the very special and sensitive nature of all three stages of the cache.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but you do have plenty of other options here in the case of these two PMOC caches!

:D

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While I haven't read this entire thread - I'll go back to the original comments about this being one of the most difficult caches in North America.

 

I wonder? The technical climbing seems to be rather challeging and never having climbed a bridge pillar myself I cannot imagine what the difficulty rating on the climb itself would be. (you mentioned an overhang)

 

As for extremest of the extreme? I wonder if this would be some of the caches that require multi-day hikes? Scuba? or activities such as splunking or even climbing (with harder rated climbs on natural rock). There's one cache I am thinking of that I will try to post the listing for in a moment.

 

Anyone else? What are the most difficult caches in North America? Also, what determines the the "difficulty" of a cache (which is more important) terrain or find/concel?

 

Neat cache though!

 

Here's the one I was thinking of. It doesn't seem difficult in some respects, but it's very remote and it seems to have lasted several years without any finds -- or even attempted finds? Does that make it an "extreme" cache?

 

Sea Cave

or On top of a mountain

Edited by Lemon Fresh Dog
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Several people have expressed dismay that the listing for #13 is for members only. I just started geocaching, and am curious what this is all about, but was bummed not to be able to read the description....

 

Seems like you choose not to reply to the people who aren't members and would like to read about #13.

 

Cathy

The fact of the matter is that for ANY cache ever discussed for more than five minutes on the national forums which happens to be a Premium Member Only Cache (PMOC), there are always a few people who will write a post saying that they are dissapointed that the cache is a PMOC and that they wish that they could read the cache listing page. It is inevitable as night and day, as sunrise and sunset. It is not worth the effort to answer such posts most of the time. In the case of this particular cache (PUC #13), converting it to non-PMOC status for more than a day or two is not an option, and we already converted it to non-PMOC status once for three days to allow non-PMOC geocachers to view it. I really have no wish to do that again. Cathy, if you are REALLY REALLY REALLY wanting to see the cache listing page for PUC #13 so badly, why not spend $3 and purchase a one-month memership?

 

And, for our newest Psycho cache, PUC #14, converting it to non-PMOC status for even a short time, such as one day, is simply not an option due to the very special and sensitive nature of all three stages of the cache.

 

Sorry to disappoint you, but you do have plenty of other options here in the case of these two PMOC caches!

:D

 

So, being new here, can you tell me what the point is of PMOC caches? Just to raise money for the site? Because if anyone can become a member, then I don't see how making it PMOC would protect the "very special and sensitive nature" of the cache.

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While I haven't read this entire thread - I'll go back to the original comments about this being one of the most difficult caches in North America.

 

As a finder of this cache “PUC13” this it by far the most difficult cache I have done, and "one" of the most difficult caches I have ever seen. I am sure there are caches out there that are harder to retrieve then this one, but if I had to guess I would place this one somewhere in the top 1% of caches as far as being extremely inaccessible. Now if I where a skilled rock climber or could afford other specialized equipment, I might think this cache was easier. I guess difficulty is really in the perception of the finders.

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So, being new here, can you tell me what the point is of PMOC caches? Just to raise money for the site? Because if anyone can become a member, then I don't see how making it PMOC would protect the "very special and sensitive nature" of the cache.

 

Premium Member Only caches are caches that the cache owner has placed and restricted to Premium Members - end of story.

 

There are MANY threads that argue the virtues and non-virtues of them. (as there are threads on micros, nanos, containers, etc, etc).

 

I think this thread was about whether the cache placed by the Original Poster (OP) was one of the most difficult in North America.

Edited by Lemon Fresh Dog
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So, being new here, can you tell me what the point is of PMOC caches? Just to raise money for the site? Because if anyone can become a member, then I don't see how making it PMOC would protect the "very special and sensitive nature" of the cache.

 

There are many threads where this topic is discussed, I personally like the PMOC caches because you can view who has looked at the cache and how often.

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While I haven't read this entire thread - I'll go back to the original comments about this being one of the most difficult caches in North America.

 

As a finder of this cache “PUC13” this it by far the most difficult cache I have done, and "one" of the most difficult caches I have ever seen. I am sure there are caches out there that are harder to retrieve then this one, but if I had to guess I would place this one somewhere in the top 1% of caches as far as being extremely inaccessible. Now if I where a skilled rock climber or could afford other specialized equipment, I might think this cache was easier. I guess difficulty is really in the perception of the finders.

 

I agree - it looks like a tough one!

Is it "Top 5"? I think you are correct in placing it in the top 1% I haven't done this, but if you take the 100 nearest caches to it, I bet they are all easier.

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I think you are correct in placing it in the top 1% I haven't done this, but if you take the 100 nearest caches to it, I bet they are all easier.

Well put that way I could easily make a case for this cache being in the top .1% of caches. I like those two caches you listed, I wish they were a little closer to Maryland.

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While I haven't read this entire thread - I'll go back to the original comments about this being one of the most difficult caches in North America.

 

The objective difficulty doesn't look too bad, but I understand that the reason Vinny likes to know about upcoming attempts is in order to man the machine-gun emplacement across the river. I believe one of the pictures shows a pedestal-mounted Browning Automatic Rifle, though the caption suggested that it was a coin-operated telescope. Riiiight.

 

Those caches you linked look like real challenges, but part of the reason they're so lonely is their relative isolation.

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While I haven't read this entire thread - I'll go back to the original comments about this being one of the most difficult caches in North America.

 

The objective difficulty doesn't look too bad, but I understand that the reason Vinny likes to know about upcoming attempts is in order to man the machine-gun emplacement across the river. I believe one of the pictures shows a pedestal-mounted Browning Automatic Rifle, though the caption suggested that it was a coin-operated telescope. Riiiight.

 

Those caches you linked look like real challenges, but part of the reason they're so lonely is their relative isolation.

 

That's sort of what I was thinking about. Is isolation a measre of difficulty? The cache listed here is "in you face" difficult. The ones I listed are more "expedition" difficult. Both have merits of course!

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While I haven't read this entire thread - I'll go back to the original comments about this being one of the most difficult caches in North America.

 

I wonder? The technical climbing seems to be rather challeging and never having climbed a bridge pillar myself I cannot imagine what the difficulty rating on the climb itself would be. (you mentioned an overhang)

 

As for extremest of the extreme? I wonder if this would be some of the caches that require multi-day hikes? Scuba? or activities such as splunking or even climbing (with harder rated climbs on natural rock). There's one cache I am thinking of that I will try to post the listing for in a moment.

 

Anyone else? What are the most difficult caches in North America? Also, what determines the the "difficulty" of a cache (which is more important) terrain or find/concel?

 

Neat cache though!

 

Here's the one I was thinking of. It doesn't seem difficult in some respects, but it's very remote and it seems to have lasted several years without any finds -- or even attempted finds? Does that make it an "extreme" cache?

 

Sea Cave

or On top of a mountain

I agree with you that there can be many different standards for determining what are the most difficult extreme terrain caches. However, based upon all of the feedback that I have received from the finders so far (only members of Team Psycho, and no one else yet) and also from over 18 other cachers who have visited the site, I still tend to stand by my statement that this is likely one of the five most difficult extreme terrain caches in North America.

 

BTW, thank you very much for offering those two links to your nominees for extreme terrain caches! Much appreciated! :)

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Here are a few updates on our newest Psycho Urban cache, Psycho Urban Cache #14 - Cliffside Catacombs, located just a couple of miles from PUC #13, and also rather extreme, which was published two nights ago:

 

First, as I have reported before elsewhere, four FTF finders (two from Team Extreme and two from Team Psycho) found the cache just 17 hours after it was published, and Sue and I were there to watch and take photos. I have posted to the cache listing page a photo of three of the four FTF finders, taken outside the mouth of the stage one cave. As for further attempts, we have been advised that a very large contingent from Team Psycho will be tackling the cache tomorrow morning, and a smaller contingent the following weekend. Sue and I will likely be out there tomorrow morning to meet the cache hunters.

 

Next, to help you better visualize the stage with the vertical cliff descent/climb to the cave mouth below, and the rigging (for rappelling, etc.) thereof, I have just added several photos, complete with captions, to the cache listing page, showing the rigging of my static line at clifftop for rappelling and showing me going over the edge of the cliff to start my descent while placing the stage container.

 

Lastly, in response to a request received from a couple of prospective seekers yesterday, I compiled an email detailing how I strung the 66 foot sheer vertical cliff for the rappelling descent to the cave (located in the cliff face, halfway down), along with some pointers on the exact gear I used and some site-specific safety hints. If you are a seeker who meets the prescreening requirements, please feel free to email me or PM me asking for a copy of that letter, and I will forward it to you. It may help to give you a better picture of what you are facing. You will also wish to see the above-mentioned fotos of the topside rigging, now to be found on the cache listing page.

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Our newest Psycho Urban Cache, with three caves and a nasty rappelling challenge (and located only a few miles from PUC #13), Psycho Urban Cache #14 - Cliffside Catacombs, fell to five more finders, all of them members of Team Psycho, over the weekend, and Sue and I were there to watch. I also rigged the final stage cliff for rappellling, and, after Team Psycho had completed their find, I rappelled down to the cache location within in the cave-like opening in order to do some cache maintenance (I needed to replace the bright yellow Otter box with a black one, so that it could not be seen from the ground even in perfect lighting conditions.)

 

After the Team Psycho members had completed their find, three of us (Vyper4, Snurt and myself) decided to re-enter the stage one cave to take a trek to the underground pond at the far end of the cave, and we all emerged a half hour later rather battered and bruised and bloody from negotiating the tight underground crevasse!

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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Our newest Psycho Urban Cache, with three caves and a nasty rappelling challenge (and located only a few miles from PUC #13), Psycho Urban Cache #14 - Cliffside Catacombs, fell to five more finders, all of them members of Team Psycho, over the weekend, and Sue and I were there to watch. I also rigged the final stage cliff for rappellling, and, after Team Psycho had completed their find, I rappelled down to the cache location within in the cave-like opening in order to do some cache maintenance (I needed to replace the bright yellow Otter box with a black one, so that it could not be seen from the ground even in perfect lighting conditions.)

 

After the Team Psycho members had completed their find, three of us (Vyper4, Snurt and myself) decided to re-enter the stage one cave to take a trek to the underground pond at the far end of the cave, and we all emerged a half hour later rather battered and bruised from negotiating the tight underground crevasse!

You guys, IMHO, are NUTS . But I sure do like the stories.

:)

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Hey Vinny, I CITO’d the cave at stage one of PUC14 today; you might want to change the name to Psycho Backcountry Cache 5 now, it is looking nice. You don’t need to worry though, I left the protector of the parking lot, there was no way I was touching that one.

 

I know this belongs in another tread but I just had to say it, “You might be a redneck if you leave a dear carcass in front of a cache.”

 

I keep waiting to hear someone playing a banjo here.

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Hey Vinny, I CITO’d the cave at stage one of PUC14 today; you might want to change the name to Psycho Backcountry Cache 5 now, it is looking nice. You don’t need to worry though, I left the protector of the parking lot, there was no way I was touching that one.

 

I know this belongs in another tread but I just had to say it, “You might be a redneck if you leave a deer carcass in front of a cache.”

 

I keep waiting to hear someone playing a banjo here.

David, thank you for the CITO effort, and I am sure that the cave and all future visitors to the cave thank you as well! :)

I am likely heading out to the PUC #14 cache site in a couple of hours to watch the effort being made today by the latest team of seekers.

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. . .I am likely heading out to the PUC #14 cache site in a couple of hours to watch the effort being made today by the latest team of seekers.

Well, I did go out to the PUC #14 cache site, in a snowstorm and 15 F temperatures, to watch GoGayleGo and Indy-MD tackle PUC #14! This morning I uploaded, to my 1/21/07 log entry on the cache listing page, three fotos of the pair rappelling down the cliff face to the cave where the cache container was in residence. I have reproduced one of those fotos here (below.) The photo below shows them at the cave mouth, suspended on their rappelling static lines on the sheer 66 foot vertical cliff face.

 

d6a4281f-3a76-4888-9a9f-c468d589792f.jpg

 

LPyankeefan and Vyper4, both previous finders of this cache, were also on hand to watch and to help the duo. A fun and frigid time was had by all! After the adventure was over, we each faced a very long drive home on snow-covered roads in the area's first snowstorm of the year! :huh:

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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Hey V&S...that looks like great fun!!! I'm assuming (without opening the cache page) that this cache requires the use of climbing gear?? I have none of that as I don't use gear for my climbing...maybe I'll have to take a course in climbing before I attempt this one??

 

Sure looks fun to me!!!

RR, yes, the cache is three stages, each a non-pristine cave, and the final stage is in a cave located halfway up a 66 foot sheer vertical cliff, and so climbing (rappelling) gear is needed. And, of course, some minimal caving gear, such as coveralls or synthetic dry-fast clothing, a helmet with headlamp, and two waterproof flashlights are needed as well. Any coursework you take should be focused not on rock-climging in general, but rather specifically on how to put on your harness and on how to rappell down a sheer 66 foot cliff, and also on how to rig the rappelling static line by anchoring it to multiple trees (via slings) on the slope above. And, there are a number of past finders of this cache who may be willing and able to come out and help you to some extent if they know when you plan to tackle it, but they may not be in a postion to loan you any gear, since most of them own little gear.

 

. . .Of course, you really[/i] know that all of our Psycho caches are actually tall tale caches, don't you? :huh:B)B)

 

 

 

B)B)

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Lastly, I note that Keystone, when he published the cache, included a remark in his log note about a special exception (in the first sentence), which makes the cache sound rather mysterious; a copy of his log note follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Log Date: 1/10/2007

I am pleased to publish this cache under an exception to the listing guidelines, in light of its special nature. Good luck to the finders, and thank you Vinny & Sue Team for setting it up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

In reality, the special exception is the prerequisite screening requirment and the owner-disclosure of the waypoint coordinates via email, PM or telephone to qualified seekers.

 

harumph, not very likely. I suspect that the "exception" and "special nature" had much more to do with the intense negotiations on the customary "courtesy donation".

 

(Negotiating fees with an attorney/reviewer - now that IS psycho).

:huh:

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Lastly, I note that Keystone, when he published the cache, included a remark in his log note about a special exception (in the first sentence), which makes the cache sound rather mysterious; a copy of his log note follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Log Date: 1/10/2007

I am pleased to publish this cache under an exception to the listing guidelines, in light of its special nature. Good luck to the finders, and thank you Vinny & Sue Team for setting it up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

In reality, the special exception is the prerequisite screening requirment and the owner-disclosure of the waypoint coordinates via email, PM or telephone to qualified seekers.

 

harumph, not very likely. I suspect that the "exception" and "special nature" had much more to do with the intense negotiations on the URL REDACTED

 

(Negotiating fees with an attorney/reviewer - now that IS psycho).

B)

I am EXTREMELY red-faced and embarrassed that you managed to find and cite that obscure and ill-advised admission on my part! Please, I beg you, please, for my sake as well as that of Keystone and Quiggle (and for the sake of Signal the Frog, who has a crush on Keystone), please edit your post and remove that link before we all end up in federal geo-prison for our shameful shennanigans!

 

 

:huh:

 

 

 

B)

 

 

B)

 

 

:P:)B)B)

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. . .I am likely heading out to the PUC #14 cache site in a couple of hours to watch the effort being made today by the latest team of seekers.

Well, I did go out to the PUC #14 cache site, in a snowstorm and 15 F temperatures, to watch GoGayleGo and Indy-MD tackle PUC #14! This morning I uploaded, to my 1/21/07 log entry on the cache listing page, three fotos of the pair rappelling down the cliff face to the cave where the cache container was in residence. I have reproduced one of those fotos here (below.) The photo below shows them at the cave mouth, suspended on their rappelling static lines on the sheer 66 foot vertical cliff face.

 

d6a4281f-3a76-4888-9a9f-c468d589792f.jpg

 

LPyankeefan and Vyper4, both previous finders of this cache, were also on hand to watch and to help the duo. A fun and frigid time was had by all! After the adventure was over, we each faced a very long drive home on snow-covered roads in the area's first snowstorm of the year! :D

 

Lots of fun had by all! GoGayleGo is a friend and has been there for Psycho caches quite a few times. Meeting Indy-Md was an added bonus! Nice to meet you Indy!!!

 

Hey V&S...that looks like great fun!!! I'm assuming (without opening the cache page) that this cache requires the use of climbing gear?? I have none of that as I don't use gear for my climbing...maybe I'll have to take a course in climbing before I attempt this one??

 

Sure looks fun to me!!!

RR, yes, the cache is three stages, each a non-pristine cave, and the final stage is in a cave located halfway up a 66 foot sheer vertical cliff, and so climbing (rappelling) gear is needed. And, of course, some minimal caving gear, such as coveralls or synthetic dry-fast clothing, a helmet with headlamp, and two waterproof flashlights are needed as well. Any coursework you take should be focused not on rock-climging in general, but rather specifically on how to put on your harness and on how to rappell down a sheer 66 foot cliff, and also on how to rig the rappelling static line by anchoring it to multiple trees (via slings) on the slope above. And, there are a number of past finders of this cache who may be willing and able to come out and help you to some extent if they know when you plan to tackle it, but they may not be in a postion to loan you any gear, since most of them own little gear.

 

. . .Of course, you really[/i] know that all of our Psycho caches are actually tall tale caches, don't you? :D:D:D

 

 

 

:D:D

 

Vinny, vinny, vinny.......Now how do I prove that they're REAL caches!! :D Of course, I keep wondering why we keep running out every time a new one is published!

 

I have an interest in finding out just how TALL a tale these are!! :D This will be some time from now as I am currently locked in a battle for custody of my God-Son...mom found out she'd have to pay child support and she's just not liking it!!

 

Maybe this year some time though!!!

 

Hey Rockin Roddy, PM me or send me an e-mail with particulars. I may be able to help out when you come to the area. Suggestions are free, as always! Good luck with custody.

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Folks, just an update on Psycho Urban Cache #13 - Impossible! Give Up Now! (which, after all, is the sick cache which was the original focus of this thread!):

 

A local team of extreme geocachers known as Team Extreme had stated their intent back in early January to tackle this cache within the upcoming few weeks, largely as part of a personal challenge (regarding one of our other PUCs which they have asked us to unarchive.) However, while I do note that Team Extreme did manage to share FTF on our new Psycho Urban Cache #14 - Cliffside Catacombs cache with the ever-present Team Psycho, there has been no recent news from Team Extreme on their planned/claimed PUC #13 effort! As a reminder, there is still the First Finder After Team Psycho prize to be claimed as well, which, if I remember correctly, is a $20 bill, a geocoin and an imprinted PUC T-shirt, to be awarded to whomever finds this cache next.

 

In fact, we are temporarily raising the cash amount for the First Finder After Team Psycho prize on PUC #13 to $100 (from $20) for the first finder who finds this cache between now and (midnight) February 26, 2007! Please understand that we are not offering this prize as an incentive to tackle the cache in the current very challenging and very dangerous (for those who are unprepared) cold-water conditions, but rather as an extra reward for the (potential) next finder who does have the skills and equipment to tackle this one safely, and who manages to find it before the deadline. :)

 

Please remember that this cache is located in the middle of a river whose waters are very cold right now, with water temperatures well in the danger zone if you are not wearing protective gear (i.e., PFD along with suitable wetsuit and/or boater's drysuit), and thus, if you plan to tackle this cache by the water route (i.e., boating out to the stone pier), please wear sufficient and suitable protective gear -- this will likely save your life if you should take an accidental spill in the cold water! In fact, the current cold water temperatures make an approach to the cache by helicopter or other kind of aircraft or airship all the more attractive right now!

 

So, bottom line on this one is this: If you do choose to seek this cache in the next couple of months while water temperatures are still cold, have fun, but please stay safe by using and wearing appropriate gear!

 

Have fun! :)

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Why do I live so far down south, so many miles from the Psycho Urban Series. One summer, I will have to vacation in the area and hunt for as many as possible. #13's going on my watchlist. It looks like great fun. Thanks for putting it out there!

Thank you. You are welcome! As you have likely guessed, I place these things for the joy of hearing the tales of the seekers who go after them (or maybe even getting to watch the adventure as I sit on the sidelines), regardless of whether their adventure ends in a DNF or in a find. And, if you ever come up to this area to hunt this cache, I wish you the very best and will offer you every assistance that I can, as I offer to all seekers!

 

Have to add my 2 cents. First, Cool place to place a cache. Hope I'm up there sometime, I'll definetly do it.

I have to disagree on the 5 difficulty, In the open a 1 unless there is some sort of puzzle. 5 terrain, no doubt. This is no different than http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC7A11 (GC7A11) (which I've done) and they didn't give the hide a 5.. Maybe if you put a nano on 1 of the 3 towers and you didn't know which tower, then the difficulty would be a 5. Anyway, it still looks pretty cool.

Edited by Frogmen83
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Have to add my 2 cents. First, Cool place to place a cache. Hope I'm up there sometime, I'll definetly do it.

I have to disagree on the 5 difficulty, In the open a 1 unless there is some sort of puzzle. 5 terrain, no doubt. This is no different than http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC7A11 (GC7A11) (which I've done) and they didn't give the hide a 5.. Maybe if you put a nano on 1 of the 3 towers and you didn't know which tower, then the difficulty would be a 5. Anyway, it still looks pretty cool.

You have raised an interesting question -- that of how closely the Difficulty rating should be married to Terrain rating on very tough terrain caches where lots of time, effort and blood, sweat and tears are required. And, this is a question on which the geo community seems to be pretty much divided into two camps, one which believes that if the T rating is a 5 and if getting to the cache will also require lots of time, effort, sweat and pain, then the D rating should also concomitantly be high as well, and another camp which believes that the D and T ratings should be entirely independent, and the D rating should only apply to how hard it is to spot (that is, to see) the cache container itself once you have gotten to within a foot or two of its actual hide spot. Obviously, I fall into the former camp, as do the vast majority of the finders of our more extreme terrain caches (i.e., our Psycho Urban and Psycho Backcountry caches) and as do the hiders of many extreme terrain caches, as witnessed by the D ratings on their Terrain 5 (or 4.5) caches. In any case, this is a topic to which entire threads have been dedicated, and thus -- for this thread at least -- I prefer to leave it at my simple acknowledgement (made herein) that there are indeed two schools of thought on this matter! :huh: Incidentally, the automated D/T ranking software tool offered as a guide to D/T rating when you are creating a cache listing page at geocaching.com seems to lean more toward the first camp rather than the second camp, since it asks about total time/effort required to find the cache and uses that to determine the D rating. In any case, the bottom line is that that there are at least two main camps in the geo community on this topic, arrayed as I have sketched above, and also a few more camps scattered between these poles, and I am quite at peace with all of that! :D I am a person who can tolerate quite a bit of ambiguity in life! :D

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Folks, the warm weather is fast approaching, and several local teams and several out-of-state teams have advised me over the past few months that they plan to tackle this cache once spring and warmer river waters arrive. And, in that veing:

Larry (LPYankeefan) has just posted a log note on the cache listing page for this cache (that is, Psycho Urban Cache #13 - Impossible! Give Up Now!) reminding seekers that he and several other core members of Team Psycho (the FTF team and the only finders so far of this cache) are willing and able to assist any future seekers who may choose to go after this admittedly very difficult cache. If you wish to ask these Team Psycho membres for a bit of assistance, you may contact LPYankeefan (Larry) via PM. If you should encounter any problems contacting him, please contact me and I will be happy to put you in touch with Larry. Have fun!

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As some of you may already know, Snurt -- who was a member of the FTF find team called Team Psycho -- posted a cryptic note this morning on the PUC #13 cache listing page announcing that two cachers had reported to him that they had found PUC #13 yesterday. Here is my response to that intriguing and mystifying note; please see below...

 

As of 3 PM Saturday, no one from either of the accounts mentioned by Snurt has contacted us directly with proof of a find, and no one has logged their find online or sent us the secret code number from the logbook needed to prove the validity of their find. I would be a bit tempted to dismiss Snurt's log note as a joke, except for the fact that I received a rather "bad" (noisy and confusing) cell phone call at about 9 AM this morning from a less-than-forthcoming man who claimed that he and two other cachers had found the cache yesterday and would be logging the find online upon their return home (which seemed to be southwestern West Virginia, but there was a lot of mystery there...) However, the connection was poor, he provided me with no GC account names, and our call ended in very short order as his cell phone faded out of range. It will be remain to be seen whether someone does file a valid online find log on this cache in the upcoming days.

 

BTW, the ONLY find to date on this cache has been the FTF find scored by about eight or nine members of Team Psycho in late 2006. While there have been plenty of DNFs (or, as Phideo has noted wryly, "Did Not Retrieve" [aka DNR]) reports for this cache, some logged online and some relayed more informally, no one else has since scored a find nor claimed the "First to Find After Team Psycho" prize.

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A late update... Snurt (of BJ&Snurt101) posted a log note, along with a photo, this morning on the cache listing page; as his note states, the photo shows that the cache container has been moved about four feet from its normal perch atop the pier in the middle of the Potomac River. I can attest that the cache was in its normal spot at the center of the apron atop the pier just a few weeks ago, as my friend Taj (handle Tajie, from Western Michigan) and I stopped by the Rumsey Monument park (which overlooks the piers from atop a high riverside bluff) to check on it in late April while we were in Shepherdstown. Snurt's report of the cache having moved is perhaps somewhat consonant with two separate and very mangled reports which I have received lately about likely-abortive attempts to retrieve this cache. The first such report was a really poor-quality cell phone call around May 11 (and which I reported in an earlier note), wherein an out-of-state cacher claimed that his team had found the cache (there were never any followup logs or further reports from this person), and then, more recently, on Saturday morning, I heard a story through the local aviation grapevine of an abortive retrieval attempt on Friday evening from a helicopter where the cacher (apparently a VA cacher) reportedly snagged the cache for a brief period of time and then lost it. However, I have received no clear and unambiguous reports of either putative attempt. I will post any updates as and when I learn anything more.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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Just a quick note: I have just learned that a team of top-rope assisted climbers will be tackling this cache early on Sunday morning, June 17, 2007 with some assistance from at least two core members of the FTF team, Team Psycho, along on the team to help in getting the ropes over the top of the pier. A good spot from which to watch such efforts is from either the MD or WVA riverbanks just upstream from the pier, or best, from the bluff at Rumsey Memorial Park in Shepherdstown, WV overlooking the piers. Please be advised that if you have any interest in attempting to join this effort, it is important to first contact one of the three organizers for permission/logistics via PM or email; they are: Indy-Md (Mk), LPYankeefan (Larry) and BJ&Snurt101 (Snurt).

 

I wish everyone involved in this effort the best! This is a formidable cache to tackle, and I personally know of many failed find efforts (although few led to formal DNF logs..!) If I were in the area, I would surely be onsite to watch, likely from the bluff at Rumsey park, but I will be in Arizona on a 9-day research-related field trip, and so will be absent from the party!

 

To the team that will be making the attempt this weekend, and to any observers: Have fun! :D:D

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Right you are Vinny. And thanks for the words of support. Shame you cannot be present for this effort. E-mails are flying at a furious rate, firming up logistic and support details. Fingers are crossed for good weather, but it looks pretty good.

Edited by BJ&Snurt101
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Just a quick update... The earlier effort of about two weeks ago by the team led by Indy-MD and Snurt ultimately did not succeed, and the team gave up after about six hours of trying and decided to tackle the cache again on another day; the main challenges that they hit seemed to be due to some equipment deficiencies. And, per Indy-MD's note posted a few hours minutes ago on the PUC #13 website, the same team will once again be tackling this cache today via the climbing/rope route, starting early this morning. I am told that the best views of the climbers will be from the MD shore of the Potomac River, as the climbers have determined that it will work best to climb the face of the pillar facing the MD shore.

 

Sue and I wish the team the very best in tackling this one! This cache has defeated many seekers since it was placed, due to sheer inaccessibility.

 

BTW, the team tackling the cache today has made clear that they are currently a "closed" team and that they cannot accept any additional members on their team for today's effort. However, they have made clear that they welcome anyone who wishes to show up and watch! If Sue and I manage to get over to the river to watch, we will likely divide our time between the MD shore and the bluff/balustrade at the Rumsey Park monument on WV side which overlooks the pillar. I am hoping to be there with Sue to watch this massive and heroic effort, but I am not sure if we will make it, as I am still playing catch-up from my recent 9-day research field trip to Arizona.

Edited by Vinny & Sue Team
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