Groundspeak Forum Suggestion

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Rants, Rages and Vents are hardly ever rational, well-researched or logically-based. They're typically emotional reactions to something. Some people are compelled to post a rant, rage or vent (however one wants to call it) to a large forum of people. In the Geocaching Topics section, these rants (even ones that are clearly labeled as rants) are greeted with a great deal of criticism. The OPs are usually aware that they're being unfair, emotional, short-sighted and that the topics have probably been brought up half a million times already when they're posting their rants, however they're posting them for the validation that something that makes them angry makes other people angry, too.

 

Would a section devoted to such posts be of use? If the identity of other cachers and specific geocache identifying were restricted, would the section be possible?

 

For example:

Unacceptable post: This newbie "username" plants "GCXXXX" and it sucks. Newbies shouldn't post caches!

Acceptable post: This newbie plants a cache in my area and it sucks. Newbies shouldn't post caches!

 

Such a post in Geocaching Topics would be open to criticism. (e.g. "Not all newbies post sucky caches", "I've seen an experienced cacher do a horrible hide." etc etc etc) In the ranting section, it would be understood that there is a rational and logical argument to whatever rant is being posted, but that the point is just for the OP to get some validation about something that's personally aggravating, for right or wrong.

 

What do y'all think?

 

- HauntHunters

[+BlueDeuce]

Rants, Rages and Vents are hardly ever rational, well-researched or logically-based.

- HauntHunters

 

Says you.

 

 

Edit: ok. I'll tone it down and be nice.

Edited September 10, 2006 by BlueDeuce

[+mtn-man]

What do y'all think?

No.

 

I would fight this with every fiber of my being.

 

I have enough to do keeping people civil in the Geocaching Topics forum. I would imagine that other moderators would agree with me on this line of thinking.

 

If you want to fight, take it to email, PM's or create your own forum or personal blog.

Edited September 10, 2006 by mtn-man

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

What do y'all think?

No.

 

I would fight this with every fiber of my being.

 

I have enough to do keeping people civil in the Geocaching Topics forum. I would imagine that other moderators would agree with me on this line of thinking.

 

If you want to fight, take it to email, PM's or create your own forum or personal blog.

 

First, it would be avoiding a fight by directing posts that bring typical and predictable fights to a section where arguing (or rationalizing) with the OP is disallowed.

 

And finally, there's no need to get personal with me. I've got a blog, thanks. It's a suggestion since I've seen it work wonderfully on other forums, not some crying desire within me that needs fulfillment.

 

- HauntHunters

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Rants, Rages and Vents are hardly ever rational, well-researched or logically-based.

- HauntHunters

 

Says you.

 

 

Edit: ok. I'll tone it down and be nice.

 

Hey! I laughed at your first version! I just didn't think "LOL" deserved a comment.

 

- HauntHunters

[+mtn-man]

You would not be avoiding a fight, you would be moving it to another part of the forum. Basically, you are asking for an editorial section? Is that right? Some people who post in the Geocaching Topics area don't read the forum guidelines. If there was a section as you describe, people would take it as a free-for-all area and would think they could get away with anything. To remain within the forum guidelines, this new section would have to be highly moderated. That is my problem with it. It also seems as if it isn't needed to me.

 

In essence that is what the Geocaching Topics Forum is now anyway. It is a forum that has rants and venting, is it not? We allow that, as long as you follow the guidelines. I see no need for an editorial section in these forums, nor do I desire to moderate it.

 

My comments are not personal. Don't read a tone into them. It is meant in a normal tone and as an honest opinion to your suggestion. I am surprised you would even say that... while you are proposing a rants and venting forum. If you don't want people to tell you what they think of your suggestions, then you might not want to post them and ask "What do y'all think?".

[+BlueDeuce]

You would not be avoiding a fight, you would be moving it to another part of the forum.

 

which is why I'm having trouble taking HauntHunters seriously.

 

No, this isn't a viable solution for any situation.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

My comments are not personal. Don't read a tone into them.

 

You stated:

If you want to fight, take it to email, PM's or create your own forum or personal blog.

 

If you meant that in a general 'you' sense, fine, but you could specify that. Without any specification as to whether you meant a general 'you' or you meant me, I had to clarify the purpose and intentions of my post. As I said, it's been successful on other forums. I don't think geocachers are incapable of the same level of correspondence on forums as those set up for other hobbies.

 

In essence that is what the Geocaching Topics Forum is now anyway.

 

It doesn't run the way a rants section would run. Rants on Geocaching Topics go as follows:

OP: I'm mad about ABC.

Comment: You shouldn't be mad about ABC because DEF and GHI.

Comment: If you don't like ABC, ignore ABC.

Comment: People who say they hate ABC really love ABC.

Comment: I'm going to talk about XYZ instead.

Comment: I'm going to comment to the person who said XYZ because I'd rather talk about that, too.

Comment: Don't we already have a million posts about ABC?!

Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

 

Rants forums go as follows:

OP: I'm mad about ABC.

Comment: Yeah, that sucks.

Comment: No doubt, especially when DEF and GHI.

Comment: I totally agree. I do XYZ to feel better afterwards.

Comment: This was my experience with ABC.

Repeat.

 

If you don't like the idea, you don't like it. I want to make sure you're not liking what I'm actually talking about.

 

Some people who post in the Geocaching Topics area don't read the forum guidelines.

 

We did.

 

- HauntHunters

[+mtn-man]

 

So, what you are saying is that a rants section would only allow one side of an argument?

 

 

Like I say, it sounds like a moderator's nightmare.

 

Rants forums will *probably* go as follows:

OP: I'm mad about ABC.

Comment: Yeah, that sucks.

Comment: No doubt, especially when DEF and GHI.

Comment: I totally agree. I do XYZ to feel better afterwards.

Comment: This was my experience with ABC.

Comment: If you don't like ABC, ignore ABC.

Moderator: Sorry, you cannot post unless you are mad about ABC.

Comment: But I want to say I like ABC!

Comment: I'm going to talk about XYZ instead.

Comment: I'm going to comment to the person who said XYZ because I'd rather talk about that, too.

Moderator: Sorry, but you cannot post in this topic unless you are mad about ABC.

Comment: I like girls, I like them a lot.

Comment: Ticks are everywhere this year, I see log after log mentioning them.

Moderator: Please stay on topic.

Repeat.

 

I just don't see the need for a whole forum dedicated to people saying "yeah, yeah, what he said" with no actual discussion beyond what is said in the first post of a topic. Tell me what I'm missing here.

[+tozainamboku]

If this were a rants forum HauntHunters could post that she (I don't have to put vie because she revealed her gender in another post and I was paying attention ) thinks that there should be a place in the forum where she could suggest we have a rants section in the forum and we would wouldn't be able to make snarky comments or even reply nicely why we think its a bad idea. We would be restricted to providing confirmation to the OP. I actually think this is a good idea. I could put the whole rants section on my ignore list.

[CoyoteRed]

I think it a bad idea. It works for some sites that are more informal. This is a business site. Let's not encourage fighting which is what it would really do.

[+Deliveryguy428]

Isn't this not a rant about why we need a rant section??

 

I agree with well...everyone else on this, you have to take the good with the bad that come on any forum of this size, it is just part of it.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

I just don't see the need for a whole forum dedicated to people saying "yeah, yeah, what he said" with no actual discussion beyond what is said in the first post of a topic. Tell me what I'm missing here.

 

Because when rants are treated like actual discussion posts, you get the "there are a million posts about this" and other arguments. When they're handled in the way that they're meant, there is no argument. "One side of the argument" isn't relevant because there is no argument, there are no "sides". We already know the logical and rational arguments against the rant, but that's not the point. The point is just for the OP to rant.

 

There may be one rant about why newbies suck. Then there's another about how number players are snobs. And none of it matters because they're not accomplishing anything, they're just ranting. It's just full of crap... instead of the Topics being full of "zomg!y 4 r we speek ov this agin" crap.

 

Moderating would be required, of course, however it doesn't take long for people to catch on to the purpose of the section. Deleted comments are a good way to remind people. Perhaps the current, more active members who enjoy arguing as much as possible will have trouble letting go of a section that doesn't allow that. The rest of the members and new members would not have problems with this format. In contrary to the beliefs expressed by the other people in this thread, this forum isn't a unique little snowflake. I'm a bit suspicious that some of them aren't familiar with other forums to know how others operate. This one is a bit of a free-for-all in all sections, where moderators 1. warn, 2. move, 3. close. My suggestion is meant to alleviate some of the aggravation without increasing the need for moderation. A moderator may have to be more heavy handed in the section, but it would eventually lessen the need for moderatoring these types of posts in the Topics section, where the actions have been warning and closing.

 

- HauntHunters

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Isn't this not a rant about why we need a rant section??

 

How do you figure? What about my post seemed like a rant? How is it more of a rant than a suggestion for a forum improvement? Tell me. I'd like to know how my post even vaguely resembled a rant, especially since I have nothing to rant about and was posting in the consideration of other people I've seen post to the Topics section.

 

- HauntHunters

[+mtn-man]

OK, I get it. It is exactly what I said. It is a "yeah yeah, what he said" forum.

 

In my opinion, that is a blog. They are free. You manage it any way you want.

You just want a bigger audience and want us to manage it for you.

 

You are asking that this web site manage a free space so you can vent (moan and complain) and then not put up with actual discussion, which this web site would have to take resources and time to manage to keep it in line.

 

It would have a ton of additional rules ("OMG, MORE RULES!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!"). Post would be deleted. (Geez, that's a whole forum section of ranting in itself. "My post was on topic, but some moderator deleted it. I want to rant about that, and the moderator cannot argue against my rant! Bwahahaha." We very rarely delete posts in this forum, by the way. We edit them down, but we do not delete them.) No actual discussion is allowed, it sounds like, just agreement with the original post. All 172,966 members of this forum would have to learn the new rules and the moderators have to deal with those who didn't for what ever reason. (Yes, I know they don't all post... but we see people with one post entering the forums all the time.)

 

My opinion is that it isn't needed. I am glad I can give my opinion on the matter.

I frankly would rather read substance than a whole forum that is "just full of crap".

 

(Edited to add a few quotation marks so it makes more sense.)

Edited September 10, 2006 by mtn-man

[+Deliveryguy428]

Isn't this not a rant about why we need a rant section??

 

How do you figure? What about my post seemed like a rant? How is it more of a rant than a suggestion for a forum improvement? Tell me. I'd like to know how my post even vaguely resembled a rant, especially since I have nothing to rant about and was posting in the consideration of other people I've seen post to the Topics section.

 

- HauntHunters

 

+ Geoholic28 posts=SARCASIM

 

Like I said before, we have to take the good with the bad. I do see where you are coming from and I do understand where your coming from with your suggestions

[+Glenn]

What do y'all think?

No.

 

I would fight this with every fiber of my being.

 

I have enough to do keeping people civil in the Geocaching Topics forum. I would imagine that other moderators would agree with me on this line of thinking.

 

If you want to fight, take it to email, PM's or create your own forum or personal blog.

 

First, it would be avoiding a fight by directing posts that bring typical and predictable fights to a section where arguing (or rationalizing) with the OP is disallowed.

 

And finally, there's no need to get personal with me. I've got a blog, thanks. It's a suggestion since I've seen it work wonderfully on other forums, not some crying desire within me that needs fulfillment.

 

- HauntHunters

I did a google search on RANT FOURM and from what I saw it makes the forum a free for all. Could you provide links to forums where you have see this work the way you describe?

[+CO Admin]

Rants, Rages and Vents are hardly ever rational, well-researched or logically-based. They're typically emotional reactions to something. Some people are compelled to post a rant, rage or vent (however one wants to call it) to a large forum of people. In the Geocaching Topics section, these rants (even ones that are clearly labeled as rants) are greeted with a great deal of criticism. The OPs are usually aware that they're being unfair, emotional, short-sighted and that the topics have probably been brought up half a million times already when they're posting their rants, however they're posting them for the validation that something that makes them angry makes other people angry, too.

 

Would a section devoted to such posts be of use? If the identity of other cachers and specific geocache identifying were restricted, would the section be possible?

 

For example:

Unacceptable post: This newbie "username" plants "GCXXXX" and it sucks. Newbies shouldn't post caches!

Acceptable post: This newbie plants a cache in my area and it sucks. Newbies shouldn't post caches!

 

Such a post in Geocaching Topics would be open to criticism. (e.g. "Not all newbies post sucky caches", "I've seen an experienced cacher do a horrible hide." etc etc etc) In the ranting section, it would be understood that there is a rational and logical argument to whatever rant is being posted, but that the point is just for the OP to get some validation about something that's personally aggravating, for right or wrong.

 

What do y'all think?

 

- HauntHunters

NO!

[+Ambrosia]

Well, I think that was pretty clear.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Isn't this not a rant about why we need a rant section??

 

How do you figure? What about my post seemed like a rant? How is it more of a rant than a suggestion for a forum improvement? Tell me. I'd like to know how my post even vaguely resembled a rant, especially since I have nothing to rant about and was posting in the consideration of other people I've seen post to the Topics section.

 

- HauntHunters

 

+ Geoholic28 posts=SARCASIM

 

Like I said before, we have to take the good with the bad. I do see where you are coming from and I do understand where your coming from with your suggestions

 

Thanks for that. I'm glad somebody gets it. Everyone's pretty convinced it won't work, the forum's too big, people are allergic to learning, it's a waste of resources and the earth will implode. It obviously won't happen. Your joke hit me a little off because I had taken special care to make sure my post didn't give the impression that my suggestion was for my personal benefit. I didn't want the thread digressing into "HauntHunters just wants a place to bitch and moan without people arguing with her" when I was posting based off of numerous posts that I've seen in the Topics section. But it's cool.

 

- HauntHunters

[+mtn-man]

...people are allergic to learning...

Comments like that don't help your cause.

Since no one seems to agree with you, I guess we are all allergic to learning.

 

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Since no one seems to agree with you, I guess we are all allergic to learning.

 

You keep making this personal. Why? My comment about people being "allergic to learning" came from your assertion that the existing members could not learn new/different forum rules. Apparently this topic is a great deal more important to you than it is to me.

 

- HauntHunters

 

[+Ambrosia]

If anyone is making it personal, it's you, HH by the comments you make. Don't get on someone's case for responding to any strong comments that you may make.

 

And I don't think that this topic can or should be more important to anyone else but the topic owner. Why else did you start it?

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

If anyone is making it personal, it's you, HH by the comments you make. Don't get on someone's case for responding to any strong comments that you may make.

 

Nah, what I said about the allergies and the earth imploding was tongue-in-cheek. Right now I just see mountains from molehills and I'm taking them with a grain of salt.

 

And I don't think that this topic can or should be more important to anyone else but the topic owner. Why else did you start it?

 

To help! Hahaha! No good deed goes unpunished!

 

- HauntHunters

[+Ambrosia]

I feel like going caching.

[+New England n00b]

Since no one seems to agree with you, I guess we are all allergic to learning.

 

You keep making this personal. Why? My comment about people being "allergic to learning" came from your assertion that the existing members could not learn new/different forum rules. Apparently this topic is a great deal more important to you than it is to me.

 

- HauntHunters

 

Well, DUH. He is a moderator, and would have to deal with the crap-flying fest such a forum would engender.

 

And having been here awhile, I can attest to the 'transcript' mtn-man posted as being highly likely. No moderator is going to want to step into that can of worms.

 

And I like girls. I like them a lot.

Edited September 10, 2006 by New England n00b

[+mtn-man]

Thanks n00b. I would have thought the blue "MODERATOR" icon under my name and my Group being listed as "Site Wide Moderators" would have been something of a hint as to why I was interested in the topic.

 

And ticks are everywhere this year, I see log after log mentioning them.

 

(I'm surprised Criminal hasn't ribbed me for stealing the "girls" line, lol.)

[+Glenn]

<snip>

It's a suggestion since I've seen it work wonderfully on other forums

<snip>

- HauntHunters

Can you provide a link to these other forums that it works for. I'd like to see an example because I've tried a google search and come up with nothing that looked like it was working like you said.

[+New England n00b]

Thanks n00b. I would have thought the blue "MODERATOR" icon under my name and my Group being listed as "Site Wide Moderators" would have been something of a hint as to why I was interested in the topic.

 

And ticks are everywhere this year, I see log after log mentioning them.

 

(I'm surprised Criminal hasn't ribbed me for stealing the "girls" line, lol.)

Heh, no prob. What good is it being a fanboy if I can't show it once in a while.

 

I did note that my previous post seemed a bit snarkier than I intended. Sorry to the OP and everyone else for that. I kinda meant it to be more tongue-in-cheek. Hope no offense was taken.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Can you provide a link to these other forums that it works for. I'd like to see an example because I've tried a google search and come up with nothing that looked like it was working like you said.

 

archinect.com

nationalcontractors.com

safeplaceforum.com

strategytalk.org

icpir.org via ezboards.

 

Those are the ones I know about. I hope that helps.

 

- HauntHunters

[+Hula Bum]

Ok, to me it looks like you're comparing apples and oranges here. I went on a few of your sites you mentioned and the contractor one for instance has a tiny base of people in it with many topics not having been touched for months. That in itself is going to keep things quieter.

Then I went to the safe place forum and here was part of their opening paragraph "We are a new mental and emotional health support forum, but already we have a comfortable and supportive place, where ALL members feel safe to talk about any issues they may be coping with and are responded to with care, compassion and respect. " You're talking about a totally different mind set of people. While it sounds very relaxing and peaceful that is not the kind of people you have here on these forums, as evident if you read many posts in here. I'm sure we have those, but my bet is they decide these forums are not for them.

I stopped after those two, so maybe the rest are a more equal comparison, if not then, well, nothing, cuz I don't think you'll find something similar where what you're talking about works.

[+sbell111]

Thanks for sharing your ideas, but I prefer that we pass on this one.

[+carleenp]

And ticks are everywhere this year, I see log after log mentioning them.

 

So I hear......

 

To be on topic: I don't think such a forum is needed. I also think it would be a huge headache for moderators. I question if anyone would even be willing to moderate it. And if they were willing, then I would question their sanity!

 

I suppose some sort of free for all forum without moderation could be made, but that is at odds with the long ago decision of this site to have moderated forums to begin with.

[+geoSquid]

I've never seen a rants section on any message board/system/forum in the last 14 years that was anything other than childish, bollocksy garbage that was totally unnecessary and irrelevant to the subject matter of the forum of which it was part.

 

As a user, I would loudly oppose the creation of a rants forum. People who want to rant can go somewhere else to do it.

[+BlueDeuce]

As a user, I would loudly oppose the creation of a rants forum. People who want to rant can go somewhere else to do it.

 

ayep.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

People who want to rant can go somewhere else to do it.

 

Yep. Right now they go to the Topics forum.

 

- HauntHunters

[+Always & Forever 5]

HauntHunters said: How do you figure? What about my post seemed like a rant? How is it more of a rant than a suggestion for a forum improvement? Tell me. I'd like to know how my post even vaguely resembled a rant, especially since I have nothing to rant about and was posting in the consideration of other people I've seen post to the Topics section.

 

 

Actually, I don't really like the idea of a rant page in the forums. From what I've seen, it would be full of typical 'fly-off-the-handle' responses like this one. The only ones complaining about not having a rant forums are the ones continually ranting in all the threads.

 

Sheesh...relax a little. If you feel the need to bellyache about every single topic, my suggestion to you would be stay off the forums.

 

Yep. That's personal.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

I was going to respond to your comment seriously, but this concerns me:

 

Yep. That's personal.

 

Why do you enjoy making an a** out of yourself? What do you get out of it? You don't bother me in the slightest and can pretty much type away with whatever you want to write because (like above) it never seems to mean anything, but amounting from everything I've read on these forums from you to people, I have absolutely no respect for you. Does acting this way fulfill something for you? Why do you strive to humiliate yourself over and over again?

 

- HH

[+Always & Forever 5]

Why do you enjoy making an a** out of yourself?

 

All I can say, is "Pot, meet kettle".

 

Have a wonderful day!

[+Isonzo Karst]

Hey, HauntHunters, I see you've joined the FGA - there's a loooooooong running thread there called (drum roll, please) GRIPES - (which has never been moderated, even when it wandered waay off topic into discussions of when the baby was due) try it, you'll like it.

 

I oughta go there and GRIPE some now.

[+Proud Soccer Mom]

Hey, HauntHunters, I see you've joined the FGA - there's a loooooooong running thread there called (drum roll, please) GRIPES - (which has never been moderated, even when it wandered waay off topic into discussions of when the baby was due) try it, you'll like it.

 

I oughta go there and GRIPE some now.

 

I will if I ever have something to gripe about! Thanks! I was just trying to help out the Topics section on this forum.

 

After reading through a lot of posts on the FGA forum, I don't see where such a section would be necessary. Everybody knows how to behave themselves! I'll probably reproduce a couple of my questions there to get a more regional-specific answer in a calm environment.

 

- HauntHunters

[+mtn-man]

I was going to respond to your comment seriously, but this concerns me:

Yep. That's personal.

Why do you enjoy making an (removed) out of yourself? What do you get out of it? You don't bother me in the slightest and can pretty much type away with whatever you want to write because (like above) it never seems to mean anything, but amounting from everything I've read on these forums from you to people, I have absolutely no respect for you. Does acting this way fulfill something for you? Why do you strive to humiliate yourself over and over again?

I removed the profanity from your quote. Good thing they don't bother you, huh.

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?act=boardrules

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

Foul Language and obscene images will not be tolerated. This site is family friendly, and all posts and posters must respect the integrity of the site.

 

Personal Attacks and Flames will not be tolerated. If you want to praise or criticize, give examples as to why it is good or bad, general attacks on a person or idea will not be tolerated.

 

Back to the topic...

 

I did look at the links, except the EZBoard one. My global EZBoard registration died when their entire site had the catastrophic failure a short time back. I saw no need to re-up it since their boards are so weak. Our local group dropped them years ago. I saw very low membership on all the boards you linked. Managing 150, 425 or 1,000 members would be very easy. This board has 173,000+ members. As noted above, I also saw little activity on some, probably since they don't have many members. If you could maybe link to a board that had even 25,000 or 50,000 members, maybe that would be getting a little more close to reality regarding your suggestion.

 

And yeah, right now rants do go to the Geocaching Topics Forum. The nice thing is that all users can actually have a discussion and might actually show the person who is ranting that they may be in error. With the rants section, they continue to be upset when their grief may not even be justified. There have been plenty of times when we hear:

 

Emily Litella voice: "Oh. I'm sorry. Never mind."