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New cachers who place geocaches with little or no experience


Highpointer

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Sometimes I see that there are new caches placed by new and inexperienced cachers who have only been geocaching for a few days and have very few caches finds. Many of these caches have quality-control problems such as being too exposed, trivially easy to find, located in a nondescript or questionable area, or using a container that is not suitable for the environment. Some caches, for example, have been placed by geocachers less than a week after they open their accounts, but many of these geocaches don't last very long. Since new geocachers have less experience using their GPS units, many new caches have inaccurate coordinates.

 

One piece of advice that someone gave me when I started geocaching is that I should find at least 15 caches before placing a cache. That was nearly five years ago, when there were far fewer caches. I expect that today, one should be geocaching for a while and, if one lives in a metropolitan area, should find at least 50 or 100 caches before placing a cache. Therefore, a new geocacher can see the variety of different caches and will better know what separates a good quality cache from a mediocre one, and will have a better chance of making a cache that will be durable and have a long life expectancy.

 

Therefore, what advice should we provide to new geocachers who are interested in placing a cache? Shouldn't geocachers gain some experience at geocaching before placing a cache?

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

Edited by Highpointer
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When Should you place your 1st cache?

 

Cache placing limitations

 

Cacher's stats are only one hidden

 

I have seen it both ways. The majority of caches that were placed in lame, illegal, trashy, or downright horrible locations, were hidden by cachers with at least 500 finds. I know of three newby cachers whose caches fit all the criteria I listed above. I even contacted one kid, and he refused to listen to any advice. As it stands, 3 of his 5 hides were archived within weeks.

 

On another note, I have found outstanding caches hidden in great locations, by cachers with less than ten finds.

Edited by Kit Fox
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Yes there are some very new Cachers who decide to place their first hide before they are ready. I had been using my GPS over a year and periodically lurked in the Forums for a few months before searching for my first Cache. Actually found a Benchmark to test my unit before ever stumbling on a GC.com link. So I would hope that your generalized "50 or 100 caches" would not have have strictly applied to me.

 

I think after a dozen Ammo Can finds I had a pretty good idea what was involved. I'm far short of 1000 finds, but if I had 1000 - I would still be a Micro novice. Don't care for them, generally avoid them. Would not have the faintest idea what constitutes a "good" urban micro. So now I am qualified to hide Ammo Cans, but not Micros? Every situation is different. We should not legislate this.

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There was a very similar thread to this one on the Geocaching Australia site a couple of weeks ago. Apparently the subject crops up every now and then. Now, being what would be called a "Newbie" with only 15 finds, I felt obliged to answer, as at one point of time we were all "Newbies" Its all well and good if you live in a metropolitan area, with heaps of caches every couple of miles on average, but what about rural areas, where it may be many k's or miles between caches. I have done all the local ones, within 100km anyhow, apart from one unavailable and one requiring a barge ride and 4wd expedition to reach. More finds for me require distance travel, which I am prepared to do, but it needs planning, and expense. Now I know there are a number of people in town who cache. I have hoped that by placing some caches of my own, the interest will be sparked in others to place some of their own, or for those that have already placed, they will place a few more. I havent received any negative comments about my caches. They vary from dead easy to pretty difficult. All are in areas of interest, highlighting features of our city. One container, my first, has required replacement, that was due to inexperience on my part. I also maintain my caches on a regular basis. If the "Find X number of caches before hiding one" rule applied, and it was 50 or 100, then I probably wouldn't have even bothered starting out in this game.

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Yes. There are some terrible caches hidden by newbies. The Chinese food container under the ten-pound rock was smashed very quickly. (One of a series of three. The second one lasted a month. The container for the third one was replaced by another geocacher, and has had 97 visits.)

But, in general, newbies do not read the fora, so they will not see any advice given here. The best place would be in the guidelines. INMO, good cache plaement takes a mixture of common sense, and creativity. and neither of those can be either dictated, or learned.

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Yes. There are some terrible caches hidden by newbies. The Chinese food container under the ten-pound rock was smashed very quickly. (One of a series of three. The second one lasted a month. The container for the third one was replaced by another geocacher, and has had 97 visits.)

But, in general, newbies do not read the fora, so they will not see any advice given here. The best place would be in the guidelines. INMO, good cache plaement takes a mixture of common sense, and creativity. and neither of those can be either dictated, or learned.

 

And, there are some terrible caches hidden by "veteran" cachers. To put a restriction on the number of finds you have before you are allowed to hide caches assumes that all newbies are incapable of a good hide before xx number of finds. I know people who are infinitely familiar with a GPSr, and just recently got into the sport of geocaching. Are they "newbies"? Hardly. Probably more capable than people with hundreds of finds.

 

You can't legislate common sense. Therefore, you shouldn't try.

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I didn't read the OP as saying to mandate the number of finds, but rather what advice should be given to a new cacher. I think that a freshman cacher should be encouraged to find a few caches before hiding any.

 

Yes, some great caches have been hidden by folks with few find. Yes, some of the worst have been hidden by cachers with hundreds of finds. But, these are the far ends of the spectrum. As with any endeavor experience helps improve our abilities.

 

To tell a beginner that they can't hide a cache till they have X number of finds would not ensure good cache hides. But encouraging a beginner to gain experience first can't hurt, as long as the encouragement is gentle. "It is a good idea to find some caches before you hide any. That way you know what types of caches you enjoy and will enjoy hiding." as opposed to "You can't hide any till you are an experienced cacher worthy of the privilege."

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This subject has already come up quite thoroughly in this now closed topic. Odds are most things that will be covered there are already covered here.

 

I know I for one have abandoned several cache locations because of topics like these. Where they good locations? Who knows... I never placed them since I just assume they'll be shouted down unless I have a 3-digit cache-find or something.

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Kabuthunk, don't let these forums stop you from enjoying the fun of Geocaching. If you feel ready to hide a cache then go for it. There is no rule I know of that says you need X number of finds to hide a cache.

 

My only point is that for most of us experience helps. I know it did for me. Two of my early caches have now been archived. Both of them left something to be desired. I learned from my mistakes and have improved the quality of my hides. Having found more caches has shown me why those two caches were destined to fail.

 

You may well be more of a natural at it than I. You are obviously creative in nature, as indicated by your sig. item. Do you make them yourself?

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The best medicine for lame placers is to let them know your true opinion. If the hider spent a little extra time making you look, or the cache has a little "WOW" factor, let them know that as well.

 

When I start placing caches, I want to stay away from the ordinary film can in a bush, I hope to get some logs that say "very imaginative hide", or "you had us wondering on this one". But of course, it seems that my area is blessed by some imaginative individuals already, so I will have to work to get my name recognized amoung theirs. The bar has been set, I can drink or fall down!

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Sometimes I see that there are new caches placed by new and inexperienced cachers who have only been geocaching for a few days and have very few caches finds. Many of these caches have quality-control problems such as being too exposed, trivially easy to find, located in a nondescript or questionable area, or using a container that is not suitable for the environment. Some caches, for example, have been placed by geocachers less than a week after they open their accounts, but many of these geocaches don't last very long. Since new geocachers have less experience using their GPS units, many new caches have inaccurate coordinates.

 

One piece of advice that someone gave me when I started geocaching is that I should find at least 15 caches before placing a cache. That was nearly five years ago, when there were far fewer caches. I expect that today, one should be geocaching for a while and, if one lives in a metropolitan area, should find at least 50 or 100 caches before placing a cache. Therefore, a new geocacher can see the variety of different caches and will better know what separates a good quality cache from a mediocre one, and will have a better chance of making a cache that will be durable and have a long life expectancy.

 

Therefore, what advice should we provide to new geocachers who are interested in placing a cache? Shouldn't geocachers gain some experience at geocaching before placing a cache?

 

Ken Akerman (a.k.a. Highpointer)

Im fairly new to the game and I agree completely.

Im going to realt study all the different caches and try to make it challenging and in an interesting spot.

Its just not the new guys either,Ive noticed some accomplished pros in my area (Central Texas) that are just saturating the area with pointless caches.I love micros in the woods for the challenge,but when a guy puts out hundreds of them in the same general area it a bit pointless.

Let some of the other cachers have a crack at some of the area to put some more interesting caches

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Yes. There are some terrible caches hidden by newbies. The Chinese food container under the ten-pound rock was smashed very quickly. (One of a series of three. The second one lasted a month. The container for the third one was replaced by another geocacher, and has had 97 visits.)

But, in general, newbies do not read the fora, so they will not see any advice given here. The best place would be in the guidelines. INMO, good cache plaement takes a mixture of common sense, and creativity. and neither of those can be either dictated, or learned.

 

And, there are some terrible caches hidden by "veteran" cachers. To put a restriction on the number of finds you have before you are allowed to hide caches assumes that all newbies are incapable of a good hide before xx number of finds. I know people who are infinitely familiar with a GPSr, and just recently got into the sport of geocaching. Are they "newbies"? Hardly. Probably more capable than people with hundreds of finds.

 

You can't legislate common sense. Therefore, you shouldn't try.

 

Alas. All too true. I know of one or more cachers, with far more finds than I, who put out poor caches that are quickly muggled, and archived. (If it were worth putting out, isn't it worth replacing, or improving? Guess not.) But the question was how to help new cachers. A little experience would not hurt.

But, as we agree, we cannot legislate common sense.

Bad caches usually disappear quickly.

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I hid my first cache after finding just over 10 caches myself. It's still going strong. Why? I chose a safe spot in a nice park that was farrr from the main attraction at that park. Finding caches didn't help me pick the right spot. Common sense did.

 

Finding any number of caches doesn't give one common sense on either side of the coin. You are born with your wits and you can sharpen them if you choose to. Some don't. <_<

 

Why blame the hider for taking you someplace that YOU consider lame. I don't care if you're a hardcore FTF hound....Nobody MADE you hunt for a cache. A little homework will save you the trip.

 

If the cache was posted and was actually STILL within guidelines when you got there, it's your own fault for being disappointed.

 

One person's dingy vacant lot is another's great night hunt adventure. It's all relative.

 

DON'T log the next cache you consider lame. That'll show 'em. :blink:

Edited by Snoogans
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I hid my first cache with only one find under my belt. The only things I learned since were that I didn't have to put so much thought into the location, container and contents. I didn't realize at the time I could have gotten away with sticking a slip of paper in a film canister and tossing it in the bushes outside Burger King.

 

If a novice comes along and has some great ideas, why poison his mind by having him find a dozen lamp post skirt and guardrail micros before he can hide his own?

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I don't think the OP was even remotely suggesting any official legislation from The Powers That Be. I believe he was making a suggestion on what advice an experienced cacher could offer to a noob regarding when to place their first hide. When I introduce folks to geocaching, I offer similar advice, based upon my own caching history. My first two caches were very basic, just ammo cans in some fairly uninspired woods. Since then, I've found some truly amazing hides, and my own hides have improved as a result.

 

True, there are some amazingly creative folks out there who could put together a "Wow" cache after only one find, but they tend to be the exception, not the rule. Those inspiring geniuses will still be inspiring geniuses after they have a few finds under their belts.

 

My standard noob advice is:

1) Once you start finding these things, you're gonna be all revved up to go hide one yourself. Take a deep breath. Pick a number as a goal, somewhere between 20 and 50. The actual number is less important than having a goal and striving for it. Find that many caches before making your first hide. At each find, ask yourself how you would improve the hide, then apply those lessons at your first hide.

2) Make your container suitable for the location. Don't hide a micro in a place that would support an ammo can.

3) Use only quality containers. Ammo cans, decon kits, lock & locks and bison tubes come to mind, and are readily available. Gladware, or other similar, thin plastic containers, are not suitable.

4) Read the guidelines! Twice!

 

Obviously this advice is incredibly biased, and I openly acknowledge said bias. I'm not looking to impose any of these as rules.

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ill agree woth the newbies thing cause i made alot of early placement misteaks. i think i have gotten a little better i think i have placed some good caches on my last two or three placements. i tried using common sense but it failed me a few times, just think before you place what could happen and if your not sure just ask a few people for ideas, you dont need to be the most experienced cacher just a smart one

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I am a fairly new cacher. I have about 84 finds and 3 of my own hides (caches). Two of my caches are reasonably handicapped accessible (one requires that you can reach the ground). My third cache keeps on popping out of its hiding place. I do not know why. All three are rated easy (1-½) finds. I wish that I could locate a cache that would really challenge our better local cachers. The thing is; today, a mother and here children completed my newest cache. They needed a hint. There find made me happy.

 

I was one an outdoorsman. Now I am middle aged and overweight. Geocaching gets both me and my wife outside, walking around. Why is this relevant? Most of us get slammed at work; we do not need to be slammed at play. Not all caches need to be hard. Not all caches need to be at the top of a mountain. This is a voluntary game, and every one is invited to do their best. Our energy is better spent trying to help, those who need help, to get better.

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As a reviewer (theUMP), I see both good and bad caches from placers with very few finds.

 

I generally check that they've got a logbook and such, and have a much closer look at the maps to make sure that the placement seems sensible (e.g. in the park they mentioned, not a street a hundred metres away)

 

I'm also careful to introduce myself, so they don't wonder why someone's sending them emails asking about logbooks and waterproof containers and WGS84 and such!

 

Overall, though, I'm fairly impressed at the quality of newbie's caches.

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Nothing wrong with giving advice. My experience though is if they didn't ask for it, or already have a lot of respect for you and your opinion, they are either going to tell you to take a hike or politely acknowledge it and then do what they wanted any way. I have not hidden a cache yet because I wanted to learn more and see if I was going to continue to have an interest in caching first. Biggest problem I have seen with newbies is they grow bored with the sport and then the cache becomes trashed out unless someone else unofficially adopts it. I have recently adopted a pretty nice cache (officially after the owner moved out of state) and am working on my first real hide now that I think I will stay with the sport for a while.

 

Make it a rule? We have enough rules in the world now. The nice thing about caching is it is so veried that anyone can do it the way they want. Like hiking in the mountains? We got one for you. Like to brag about numbers? Go for it. Don't much care for hunting one of these things but really enjoy confusing and confounding people with your puzzles? Have fun!

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I say survival of the fittest. If it's a good cache, it will get lots of visits and last a long time. If it's not, it will get muggled or destroyed by elements or something.

 

(Briefly entertains the thought of hiring muggle "hit men" to "accidentally" dispose of an undesirable cache.. but that wouldn't be nice... :D )

 

The worst cache I ever tried to find was in an open area with tall grass, lots of trash, and dog poop everywhere. I never did find it. The cache was called Tree Hole and was hidden by a cacher with about 3 finds. There was neither a tree nor a hole involved, and from what I can tell the container was a cardboard box. You could tell from previous logs that finders weren't impressed. The cache was archived an hour after I posted my DNF, with the reviewer saying "It looks like this one's gone, judging from the DNF's and the container". Even he knew this cache wouldn't be long for this world.

 

There are others in my area who've just recently started and have saturated the city with 30, 40, 50 caches. Some of them are beginning to get tiresome, and what's more, they are taking up all of the spots where I was going to put out some really cool caches! :D:D

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Imagination and hard work play a larger role in cache placement than experience (IMHO).

 

One way I have seen inexperience show up is in the description on the cache page. I enjoy a good search for a cache, therefore I look for those that are different or challenging, no matter what size they are. When I see a description that talks about how exotic a particular cache is, and with an elevated difficulty rating, I look forward to seeking it.

 

Two caches, in particular, illustrate the point: rated 3 for difficulty, both were fence post hides that I went right too within seconds of coming to GZ. Both were well-done showing some hard work, but obviously inexperience caused an inflated difficulty rating. I appreciate that the hiders took pride in their work and did a good job; it just seemed anticlimatic when I found the cache. Other finders don't often comment on this in their logs. In one case I was FTF, so no previous logs to examine.

 

It's not the biggest problem in the world, but just a little bump on the road of life.

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I didn't read the OP as saying to mandate the number of finds, but rather what advice should be given to a new cacher. I think that a freshman cacher should be encouraged to find a few caches before hiding any.

 

Yes, some great caches have been hidden by folks with few find. Yes, some of the worst have been hidden by cachers with hundreds of finds. But, these are the far ends of the spectrum. As with any endeavor experience helps improve our abilities.

 

To tell a beginner that they can't hide a cache till they have X number of finds would not ensure good cache hides. But encouraging a beginner to gain experience first can't hurt, as long as the encouragement is gentle. "It is a good idea to find some caches before you hide any. That way you know what types of caches you enjoy and will enjoy hiding." as opposed to "You can't hide any till you are an experienced cacher worthy of the privilege."

I agree with gof1 because I am freshman cacher with only 53 found/2 hidden. I found 26 caches before hiding my first cache so I think some experience will help a newbe cacher.

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I hid my first cache with only one find under my belt. The only things I learned since were that I didn't have to put so much thought into the location, container and contents. I didn't realize at the time I could have gotten away with sticking a slip of paper in a film canister and tossing it in the bushes outside Burger King.

 

If a novice comes along and has some great ideas, why poison his mind by having him find a dozen lamp post skirt and guardrail micros before he can hide his own?

ditto....

 

New cachers tend to but together very creative and thoughtful hides most of the time around here, I don't think experience makes the others care any more.

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im a fairly new geocacher, only started in July, and so far im at 15 finds and 2 hides. one of my hides is a multi in a cemetery, which i dont think i did right, since ive only found one multi so far..........and my other one is a form of a guardrail cache, its not in it, but by it. im holding back to put out more until i get 25 finds, i already know where id like to place more, but like i said, im holding back

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Lets not negate the potential for learning that making mistakes provides.

 

When I discovered caching just a few months ago, I felt like a whole new world had been opened up to me. I couldn't believe people were doing this in all these parks that I frequented and I knew nothing about it. After my first couple of finds, I could hardly wait to hide my own caches. Of course, with very little experience myself, my enthusiasm outpaced my knowledge and I did a poor job on a couple of very quickly placed caches.

 

What I found to be most helpful was getting messages from a couple of local more experienced cachers, not in a tone of negative criticism, but in more of a helpful "friendly advice" tone. These cachers helped me to understand what I could have done better and gave me a welcome introduction to the local caching community.

 

My advice is to be patient with local "noobs". Welcome them to your community and offer them a helping hand with their first caching experiences. Similar friendly correspondence also helped me to understand how to properly move and record travel bugs etc. Don't assume everyone that gets caching understands or has read everything there is to read. Remember when your were new yourself and think how you would have liked to have been treated.

 

The new hider making mistakes today just might be the local to provide you with some great caches in the future.

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I even contacted one kid, and he refused to listen to any advice. As it stands, 3 of his 5 hides were archived within weeks.

 

I've come across some doozies while reading through your "Cache at your own risk" bookmark list and just about died reading some of the log entries. I don't know if I'm sorry at the small number of entries on your list (less things to laugh at) or glad that there aren't more of these clueless hiders. :anitongue:

Edited by adjensen
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I just started caching last month, and have just reached 130 caches found. I was really excited to start hiding my own caches early on but wanted to see a variety of other caches/locations to give me some guidance and inspiration. I took note of which caches I enjoyed finding, and which ones others enjoyed finding, and sort of based mine that way. My first cache was published yesterday, and has 2 finds, the first one about 25 min. after publication. (and this is quite a rural area) I even started with a multicache/puzzle, just with simple math. The FTF log said they enjoyed it, and that co ords were right on. That was my biggest worry, so I made sure (and hoped) I had accurate waypoints.

 

I am already planning a few more caches for the same area, as there are not many around here. Now as I place more, I will get better at hiding them and making them more interesting. Practice makes perfect, right?

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In a similar vein, a cache was published Sataurday morning. I received notification at 7:43 AM. WE went looking for it that afternoon, and spent an hour or so looking, about 4 PM. I went to log the DNF when I got home about 5 PM. Saw this note after another DNF "Sorry about that. It will be there this afternoon. We going out the door now to place it. Had not been put in place prior to approval, due to previous attempts rejection."

My DNF "Gee thanks. I hate wasting an hour on a cache that hasn't even been hidden yet! We could not find it as of 4 PM. Hide cache. Then get it published. Doh."

Cache was finally hidden about 8 PM. Received this e-mail: Sorry but last time I hid a cache first it got rejected... so I first get it published and then hide it.

I lectured that by submitting the cache, it is verified to be in place. Five cachers watching it, so probably five or six people wasted time looking for a cache that was not even there. And that I probably would not be looking for any more of his caches if he has that little respect for other cachers.

He responded "Thank you!"

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