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cache in graveyard - is that OK?


xuxu_ns

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I just purchased a GPS and am very excited to start geocaching - however when looking at the caches near a place I was thinking of visiting, I saw one in an area I am familiar with - the graveyard where my grandparents are buried. The landmark for the cache is unmistakable.

 

Is this normal? I don't see graveyards as grim horrible places, or as places that are so consecrated you must never take them lightly, but I would like to think that if I or anyone else were there visiting the grave of a loved one - and maybe having a quiet moment - that it wouldn't be disturbed by people engaged in a hobby, no matter how enjoyable. I don't think I would be comfortable geocaching in a graveyard - only because these are not just stones in the ground, they are someone's family.

 

I dunnno, just seems to me there could be better places to geocache.

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we'd skip it if we saw people obviously having a moment at a nearby grave.

Yup. I appreciate the cemetery caches b/c they are a sort of tribute to the people who were buried there. In the town where my parents are (where I lived with them for 20+ yrs), I found an old slave cemetery less than 2 miles from where I grew up. I had no idea and I had a great experience just wandering around, taking it all in.

 

One cacher around here has a few cemetery caches set up as as a puzzle/multi type thing where you get some info off a headstone to get your final coords and then the cache itself is off cemetery property.

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I have the same view, and situation as immediately above. I have a multi in a cemetary, (Redside/Blueside) (GCXYBZ) where the clues come off headstones, but the cache itself is offsite. I have clearly stated in the clues that they all come from headstones in our old cemetary. I would hope that anyone who chooses to do this cache shows the appropriate due respect. I know I certainly did when setting it up. Even to the extent of being especially careful where I walked, as its obvious that there are a large number of unmarked graves. I would also hope that anyone who does this one takes the time to appreciate the older graves, especially those of the children from the late 1800/early 1900's.

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I love cemeteries. I'm not morbid, truely I'm not, and I am a fairly normal woman.

 

It's just that my grandmother instilled in all of her grandchildren this deep and abiding feeling of peace and tranquility in cemeteries. She took us along with her when she went to tend to the graves of family members. We helped her weed and carry away old flower arrangments, then we ran off extra energy while she place new arrangements and visited with other adults who were there to tend to their loved ones last resting places.

 

As an adult, I have spent a lot of time in cemeteries, looking at the stones and trying to learn more about my family history. In doing that, I have learned more about the history of the communities they lived in as well.

 

A few years ago, I chose cemeteries for a required research project in a Biology class. I wanted to find out how people had affected the natural sucession of plants in an area by creating cemeteries. (Succession: After a natural disaster like a fire clears an area of vegetation, there is a natural order in which the plants return--weeds, grasses, other wild flowers, small shrubs, trees, etc). One fascinating things that I learned is that most of the oldest cemeteries in Indiana were built on steep slopes or along ridge lines among stands of hardwood nut trees. That makes sense, when you think about it--the slopes were too steep to plow and farm easily, the ground under nut trees is not good for planting most crops because of tannic acid. But more than that, you can almost hear your great-great-granfather asking to be buried "up under the chestnut tree on the ridge, so I can see the old farm" and then you can see his daughters climbing the hill late in the afternoon on one of those dogs days in the late summer, and sitting there in the shade to enjoy the breeze, watching their children playing in the creek and their men finishing the long work day, before clambering back down the hill to finish up supper.

 

Yeah, I am getting carried away again--I always do that when I write about this. My point is, I know of few people so tacky that they wouldn't go quietly away if they went to a cemetery to geocache and found a service about to begin. I think of cemeteries as places to gather to remember the past. How much sadder it would be to think of all the cemeteries unvisited and forgotten.

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We love cemeteries...

...but we're ghosthunters.

 

As long as you have the cemetery's permission to place a cache, it doesn't disturb the landscape and function of the property in any way, and you include the visiting hours on the cache's page, there should be absolutely no problem whatsoever.

 

While you're there, bring a digital recorder and record your visit. When you get home, listen to the audio files to see if you've picked up any voices that weren't there at the time! :D

 

You can also pay attention to the gravemarkers to see if there's any you can waymark.

 

- HauntHunters

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How do you feel about photographers? Artists? Amateur genealogists? Any of these might be engaged in recreational activity in a graveyard.

 

If geocaching in a cemetery feels uncomfortable to you, don't do it. As for other cachers (and photographers, etc.), one can hope that they are sensitive to the purpose of a cemetery.

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Having done a large share of family history research, I have spent a fair amount of time in cemetaries, and don't have a problem with them at all. If the cache leads me to a point of interest, then I have no problem going into a cemetary to learn something. Personally, I love to read names, places, and histories while in cemetaries. In many ways, headstones are tributes to those who lie there.

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Hmmm...well i do not think that graveyards are places that are off limits. I visit my garndparents, and stroll around, seeing other people related and not. And I don't mind a stroll through graveyard where I do not know

anyone there - but I am mindful of the purpose of this place.

 

I don't think they are scary or ghoulish palces - we all die, that's normal. I think I see them as places where others have chosen to put the remains of their loved ones, and with no small measure of thought to their final place on earth. That's why I would hesitate too enjoy any hobby there.

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Hmmm...well i do not think that graveyards are places that are off limits. I visit my garndparents, and stroll around, seeing other people related and not. And I don't mind a stroll through graveyard where I do not know

anyone there - but I am mindful of the purpose of this place.

 

I don't think they are scary or ghoulish palces - we all die, that's normal. I think I see them as places where others have chosen to put the remains of their loved ones, and with no small measure of thought to their final place on earth. That's why I would hesitate too enjoy any hobby there.

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Neos2 wrote beautifully.

 

I have never been to a cemetery cache where there is a service going on. I would leave immediately out of respect. Mostly they are in older, little used cemeteries. I placed one in my town that offers up a lot of historical information. It was fascinating to research. I don't know, maybe in part it's my belief system - I don't figure anyone's soul and spirit is actually there, just thoughts and memories from those left behind.

 

HauntHunters ~ You need to come to Port Townsend, WA. I'll show you a ghost or two.

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HauntHunters, you must have some interesting recordings! please share some of them!

 

Some of the EVPs are on my website. http://www.earthmoonsky.com/paranormal

Check them out and let me know what you think!! :laughing:

 

Also for everyone: there is a cache nearby us that is hidden in a cemetery: GCRVK7. This is a memorial to a woman that we wouldn't have otherwise known.

 

- HauntHunters

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The OP was asking about their cemetery where their family is buried, not some slave cemetery or national or other type cemetery. Caching in private cemeteries without permission is illegal, against Geocaching policy and certainly disrespectful. It's not up to the cacher to decide what is tasteful and respectful or not since it's not your family that's buried there. You're an outsider. That thinking allows me to hide caches in posted woods under the theory that in my opinion a cache there does no one harm and the owner of the property should not mind. Where do we Americans who respect private property in all other ways get the idea that this is OK?

Edited by Alan2
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It depends, I don't think final cache location should be in the cemetary itself but a multi which requires finding data on gravestones has been done many times. The older the better, because I'm also not comfirtable with using a modern cemetery. Cachers in search mode dusturbing the recently bereaved or worse a commital ceremony is an ugly prospect utterly against the ethos of our activity.

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The OP was asking about their cemetery where their family is buried, not some slave cemetery or national or other type cemetery. Caching in private cemeteries without permission is illegal, against Geocaching policy and certainly disrespectful. It's not up to the cacher to decide what is tasteful and respectful or not since it's not your family that's buried there. You're an outsider. That thinking allows me to hide caches in posted woods under the theory that in my opinion a cache there does no one harm and the owner of the property should not mind. Where do we Americans who respect private property in all other ways get the idea that this is OK?

 

Holy jumping off the deep end. The OP didn't state it was THEIR cemetery, just the cemetery where their grandparents are buried. Just having family buried there doesn't make it their cemetery.

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The OP was asking about their cemetery where their family is buried, not some slave cemetery or national or other type cemetery. Caching in private cemeteries without permission is illegal, against Geocaching policy and certainly disrespectful. It's not up to the cacher to decide what is tasteful and respectful or not since it's not your family that's buried there. You're an outsider. That thinking allows me to hide caches in posted woods under the theory that in my opinion a cache there does no one harm and the owner of the property should not mind. Where do we Americans who respect private property in all other ways get the idea that this is OK?

 

Holy jumping off the deep end. The OP didn't state it was THEIR cemetery, just the cemetery where their grandparents are buried. Just having family buried there doesn't make it their cemetery.

Absolutely. Cachers have as much right to visit cemeteries as any of the hobbyists listed above. I know I've seen it listed more than once that a caretaker of a cemetery has actually come out and helped or has hunt with cachers in their cemetery.

 

My mere presence is not disrespecting of anything or anyone. It would be my actions that would be disrespectful and I take great pains to show respect.

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But the OP says and I agree that any caching you do in the cemetery where their family is buried is disrespectful to them. It's not up to you to decide what's disrespectful any more than it's OK for a trespasser to decide it's OK to cache on posted property. Private property is private property.

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But the OP says and I agree that any caching you do in the cemetery where their family is buried is disrespectful to them. It's not up to you to decide what's disrespectful any more than it's OK for a trespasser to decide it's OK to cache on posted property. Private property is private property.

 

And your opinion that it's disrespectful isn't any more fact or important than my opinion that it's not.

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thanks, the story was very interesting. i take it you and tom now search for ghosts! sorry to hear you had a rough marriage. do you still see these apprititions at your moms house when you visit? what was the history? who was that guy visiting you at night?

 

Thanks. That's just my story. Tom has his own and he's a bit sensitive to that. I've only experienced things that I think anyone else could experience if they were there with me to experience it. As for those experiences, I think my mom had invited several unproductive entities due to her private spiritual interests and one of them was curious in me. I rarely stay with my parents when I visit. I prefer hotels. They are in the same house and I haven't had any experiences in a long time, but I still don't stay there because I prefer the freedom and space of a hotel room.

 

Did you find the EVPs okay? The best way to listen to them is in a quiet room with headphones.

 

- HauntHunters

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But the OP says and I agree that any caching you do in the cemetery where their family is buried is disrespectful to them. It's not up to you to decide what's disrespectful any more than it's OK for a trespasser to decide it's OK to cache on posted property. Private property is private property.

 

This is why it's very important to always get the cemetery management's permission before placing a cache. When they agree for a cacher to hide a cache, they understand that they are agreeing to allow all cachers to find that cache, while obey all cemetery regulations (which are often posted clearly upon entrance of the resting place). There's never an excuse for a cacher to be disruptive and caching can be as docile and respectful as jogging, walking, photographing, or ghosthunting. My ten year-old loves cemeteries because of the history of them. When I go through Charlotte Harbor Cemetery, he finds the war veterans and sees how many survived the wars or perished in them. We find people who were intergrital in the development of our area. We wonder why Norma Koon's grave is so far away from everyone else's and why our ears pop every time we touch the tree she's buried under.

 

Capt Dale worked with my husband when he was a firefighter. Capt Dale died of cancer not six months after a chemical fire that they mistakenly began to fight before realizing they needed the hazmat team. He visits him. While others have been recorded talking to us, Dale's never talked back, but he still talks to him.

 

There's a gentleman who loved his Mustang so much that there's a likeness of it on his gravemarker and his family presents flowers with little Ford cards in them.

 

And the children... how old would each of them be today?

 

There are gravemarkers so old that wind and rain are wiping away the carvings, which were not very deep and solid to begin with, and with their descendants moved away and moved on, these people are at risk of having their last bit of identity being erased forever.

 

How can you pay more respect than to simply NOT FORGET someone, even if you never knew them?

 

- HauntHunters

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thanks, the story was very interesting. i take it you and tom now search for ghosts! sorry to hear you had a rough marriage. do you still see these apprititions at your moms house when you visit? what was the history? who was that guy visiting you at night?

 

Thanks. That's just my story. Tom has his own and he's a bit sensitive to that. I've only experienced things that I think anyone else could experience if they were there with me to experience it. As for those experiences, I think my mom had invited several unproductive entities due to her private spiritual interests and one of them was curious in me. I rarely stay with my parents when I visit. I prefer hotels. They are in the same house and I haven't had any experiences in a long time, but I still don't stay there because I prefer the freedom and space of a hotel room.

 

Did you find the EVPs okay? The best way to listen to them is in a quiet room with headphones.

 

- HauntHunters

 

did you tape your room?

 

it was late last nite when i got to the thread, i will try for it again. i tried to find it. i will do so now!

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did you tape your room?

 

it was late last nite when i got to the thread, i will try for it again. i tried to find it. i will do so now!

 

No. The personal experiences were just personal experiences, many of those happening when I was a teenager, before I ever knew that there was a pseudo-science of paranormal investigation.

 

EVP is Electronic Voice Phenomenon, which is capturing a voice that has no known origin and no scientific explanation at the time of recording. The date and location when the EVPs were captured is noted with each wav file. EVPs that I had to clean up digitally also have the raw version along side it.

 

- HauntHunters

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It is silly to think of a cache in a cemetary as silly. Caches don't usually make noise, throw parties, toss litter, set things on fire or commit acts of vandalism.

 

The increased traffic from cachers coming through may well cause some of those who would take part in the above examples to move on. Those who misbehave usually don't like witnesses to their stupidity.

 

Remember, the cache, properly placed, could well be an asset to the cemetary. The people who seek it need to be sure to exhibit appropriate behavior.

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I just purchased a GPS and am very excited to start geocaching - however when looking at the caches near a place I was thinking of visiting, I saw one in an area I am familiar with - the graveyard where my grandparents are buried. The landmark for the cache is unmistakable.

 

Is this normal? I don't see graveyards as grim horrible places, or as places that are so consecrated you must never take them lightly, but I would like to think that if I or anyone else were there visiting the grave of a loved one - and maybe having a quiet moment - that it wouldn't be disturbed by people engaged in a hobby, no matter how enjoyable. I don't think I would be comfortable geocaching in a graveyard - only because these are not just stones in the ground, they are someone's family.

 

I dunnno, just seems to me there could be better places to geocache.

 

This thread inspired GCY4Y3. :blink:

 

- HauntHunters

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Wow - this was interesting. As I said, I am new to geocaching (in fact awaiting the arrival of my etrex in the mail so have not even started!) so I was wondering the policy most people have on this.

 

I like graveyards, and I don't mind people who enjoy them as long as they are mindful that they are not all just historical places. I liek that some people use them to teach history to children - those are the kids I think will be less likely to tip over a grave stone or something in the future.

 

I guess it woudl be like any other private property and if their policies are followed and consideration for others is given then it would be OK for some. Seems to me that geocachers are fairly thouguhtful about what they are doing and where, anyway!

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Caches in graveyards became such a major problem in South Carolina, the state legislature started drafting a law making it ILLEGAL to place caches in cemetaries and other historic areas. Some of this was in part to a handful of geocachers who would harm the area by tearing up bushes looking for micros, walking all over gravesites (footprints everywhere), and taking pictures disrespecting gravestones. (like taking pictures while laying on top of them).

 

The law didn't pass YET, in part to my fellow South Carolina geocachers pulling geocaches and geocaching.com banning all geocaches in cemetaries in SC.

 

A few stories about it.

 

http://www.jquinton.com/archives/002834.html

 

http://www.scbaptist.org/publicpolicy/arti...-1999359261.htm

 

I can post 100 more....

 

Therefore, I would advise not placing them in graveyards. While you think that cleverly hidden micro in a gravesite might be a good idea, everyone is going to tear up every little corner & opening up bushes trying to find it.

Edited by gpsblake
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There are gravemarkers so old that wind and rain are wiping away the carvings, which were not very deep and solid to begin with, and with their descendants moved away and moved on, these people are at risk of having their last bit of identity being erased forever.

 

How can you pay more respect than to simply NOT FORGET someone, even if you never knew them?

 

 

<APPLAUSE>

 

Beautifully and perfectly stated!

If you look at my profile page, you will see that one of my interests/hobbies is taphophilia. To save anyone having to look that up, it means "love of graveyards". Cemetaries and graveyards fascinate me, and always have; each stone represents a human being, reflects that person's life (death is just another stage of life) and the history of the area. Every stone or marker has a story to tell, if you pay attention.

 

I have no problem with caches in or near cemetaries, as long as

1. they are placed peripherally (e.g. in a tree, nearby woods, in or on a building, etc.)

2. the cemetary is one that is open to the public.

3. The cache is not so difficult to find that the less reputable members of the caching community might do damage searching for it (IOW, I don't think micros are particularly appropriate)

4. the cache is not placed on a tomb or monument.

 

WRT cachers taking pictures of themselves lying on graves, that's got NOTHING to do with the sport of geocaching, and everything to do with being immature f***wits. People like that would behave that way regardless of whether or not it was caching that brought them near a cemetary, and they undoubtedly behave with similar disrespect in other caching situations.

Edited by cimawr
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Caches in graveyards became such a major problem in South Carolina, the state legislature started drafting a law making it ILLEGAL to place caches in cemetaries and other historic areas. Some of this was in part to a handful of geocachers who would harm the area by tearing up bushes looking for micros, walking all over gravesites (footprints everywhere), and taking pictures disrespecting gravestones. (like taking pictures while laying on top of them).

 

 

Gpsblake, like it says in your quote, "......a handful of geocachers......" It is unfortunate that a few are messing things up for the masses, but there is nothing unusual about that. Groundspeak and the SC cachers are to be commended for reacting to defuse the situation, hopefully the need for the legislation is no more.

 

As for the ones misbehaving, if they were dumb enough to post pictures on public domain where a police officer with a little guidance could find them, and there are existing laws on the books about defacing or disrespecting.............

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As for the ones misbehaving, if they were dumb enough to post pictures on public domain where a police officer with a little guidance could find them, and there are existing laws on the books about defacing or disrespecting.............

 

Exactly.

 

Also, reading the two articles about the SC controversy that were posted, it became immediately obvious that one of the problems there was racial - caches being placed in historical slave graveyards, for example - and that another was disrespect, or at least the perception of it, in the way the caches were POSTED.

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if i was resting in peace, i dont mind visitors paying their respect, but not to disturb my peace for other than to pay their respect. a cementary is for friends and relatives to visit the departed and reminece.

would you want some stranger walking over your mother's grave as they are reading a compass or gpsr?

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if i was resting in peace, i dont mind visitors paying their respect, but not to disturb my peace for other than to pay their respect. a cementary is for friends and relatives to visit the departed and reminece.

would you want some stranger walking over your mother's grave as they are reading a compass or gpsr?

 

This is a controversial topic for good reasons. The first time I became aware there were cemetary caches I was put off. Offended even. Cemetaries are for the living to pay respect to the dead, not to play games in.

 

Then I did a cache that I didn't realize until I was there was a cemetary cache.

 

I couldn't help but pay respect to the dead. The cemetary was small and nobody noteworthy was buried there (as far as I know). At the top of the hill was a bush with the cache tucked underneath.

 

As I walked along I noted that this was an older cemetary and many of the tombstones had weathered to the point they were unreadable. This gave me pause. Nobody living cared enough to maintain many of these grave sites. In all likelyhood I was one of the few people to even see the grave site and try to make out the writing on the tombstone. One gravestone was being taken over by soil/grass and I took the time to peel it away from the stone so it would not be covered over and lost forever.

 

I was touched in an indescribable way as I saw stones listing the buried as children who died 100 or more years ago. How/why did they die? Birth defect? Some illness that today could be cured with a $3 shot in the arm? Gave me pause.

 

I stopped for awhile and just sat and contemplated life and it's brevity. The fact that when I die I won't be long remembered, but I can do deeds that will leave a longer lasting impact. If I am ambitious or lucky perhaps I can do something that will give reason to a future cache placer to include my tombstone as a waypoint on their multi.

 

In short, the cemetary cache had me doing more thinking than most any cache I have done to date.

 

I can't imagine anyone finding my visit in the least disrespectful.

 

I have since done other caches that took me to cemetaries and all were respectfully done. One took me to the site of a family burial plot where the entire family were survivors of the Titanic. Definitely historical value there and worth slowing down and reflecting on an historical event.

 

I no longer have a problem with cemetary caches, although I did before I actually did one.

Edited by DaveA
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While in Alexandria, VA I went in search of CatTail a micro in a local park. While walking toward the cache I noticed several old headstones on either side of the walkway (see pictures on cache page). Really made me stop and take the time to read and investigate the origins of the park itself. This park is constantly in use and the headstones are teaching points not an issue. Across the canal are multiple cemeteries to include on of our National Cemeteries. I spent many hours walking through each of these cemeteries discovering and learning. One of the cemeteries had a virtual which told of local lore and the National Cemetery host a lot of history to include the graves of the four Soldiers who died in pursuit of Booth after the assignation of Lincoln. I would have never found any of this if not for those two caches. Disrespectful? I would say not.

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Caches in graveyards became such a major problem in South Carolina...

 

I'm probably as fluent in the subject as anyone yet this whole post has me shaking my head.

 

It would probably be a very good idea to not write about that which you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Most of your points are wrong. None of the "facts" presented by the proponents of the bill could be substantiated, nor could these facts stand scrutiny in the light of day. The only thing that was left was opinion and it boiled down to the definition of "disrespect." (Here I could sling some mud as it could certainly be argued the two main proponents did not show respect to their respective spouses--if you know what I mean. No, this not supposition, but now a matter of public record.)

 

Anyway, the pictures of folks laying gravestones, in graves, holding skulls, selling artifacts on ebay, painting gravestones and more never saw the light of day as they never existed. Nor did any evidence of walking over grave sites or the tearing up of bushes. If these did exist it wouldn't have been very hard to run out with a camera to document, but they couldn't because it didn't happen.

 

Let me make this perfectly clear, every single allegation made by the proponents of the bill against geocachers--except maybe permission--was complete bunk.

 

Please refrain from spreading this bunk--especially presenting it as fact which it is not.

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would you want some stranger walking over your mother's grave as they are reading a compass or gpsr?

 

 

Mam would enjoy the company, actually. <_<

 

More seriously, your comment goes back to mine about placement; the graveyard caches I have done have been placed so that it's not necessary to "walk over a grave" to figure out where they are.

Additionally, people who are drawn to caches intended to introduce a historical or signficant graveyard are, IMO, more likely than JQP to understand the concept of not walking directly over graves, regardless of the direction the GPS is pointing. We don't drive off the street and over people's lawns to access caches, we circle around on the roads until we figure out where the road or trail is, and the same concept applies to caching in or near a cemetary.

Edited by cimawr
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Caches in graveyards became such a major problem in South Carolina, the state legislature started drafting a law making it ILLEGAL to place caches in cemetaries and other historic areas. Some of this was in part to a handful of geocachers who would harm the area by tearing up bushes looking for micros, walking all over gravesites (footprints everywhere), and taking pictures disrespecting gravestones. (like taking pictures while laying on top of them).

 

The only problem was in the mind of one obsessed legislator, who got her staff to comb through logs and take statements and photos out of context, twisting them to make relatively benign acts to look like people were doing wrong. The one photo where someone posed laying on the ground apparently next to a headstone was in fact not even taken next a grave site, but at a memorial where nobody was buried.

 

There was never a single instance where geocachers were known to have done any of what you attributed to them, except maybe walking on graves. But if that is a crime then everybody who ever visited a cemetery is guilty.

 

The truth is that cemeteries are used every day by joggers, dog walkers, bird watchers, bicycleists, painters, historians, photographers, gravestone rubbers, geneologists, nature lovers and more. They are places that are chock full of history and are often fascinating places. Just the kind of place that interest many geocachers. There is no reason that geocachers can't be among the many respectful users of cemeteries.

 

The idea that cemeteries are reserved only for mourners is relatively new. Up until about the middle of the last century they were often places for family outings. In fact many cemeteries still have picnic tables.

 

If it wasn't for a cemetery cache, I never would have had this experience. I'm thankful that the owner placed a cache there.

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a friend of mine many years ago was led blindfolded to a cemetary across from her dorm as part of her initiation for a soroity. she was to kneel there for some specified time by herself before she could remove the blind. and when she did she was facing some tombstone. she cried in fear, motionless for a long time, left an indelible impression for a very long time!

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There's a cache near me, placed with permission in a cemetery. Sadly, a member of the team which placed the cache is now buried in the same cemetery: The cache page asks visiting cachers to say hello to Bob on their way through. On a recent cache-meet, a tour of the area ended at this cemetery so Bob's friends could do his cache, if they hadn't already, and visit his resting place.

 

Caches in cemeteries CAN be disrespectful, but one placed with permission is unlikely to be: It certainly isn't true that they all are.

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