Signal Down Under

[wheetree]

Love the September desktop calendar.

I'm quite sure though that placing a geocache on Ayer's Rock is a major no-no. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong, but last I heard, non-aborigines cannot even touch the rock itself. Several campgrounds around it though - watch out for baby-stealing dingoes.

 

Is there a cache at the top of the Sydney bridge? Now that would be a fun urban micro!

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

Nope, not at all true about Ayres Rock (Uluru) The Rock has certain parts of it that are sacred to the local indigenous population. Certain areas that non indigenous people cannot go, (It was like this in 1974, the last time I was there) Tourists can still climb the Rock, although the local indigenous population "prefers" you dont, however its not illegal, ect. The area is a huge tourist drawcard, with a major part of that drawcard being the ability to climb the Rock.

 

As for the Coathanger, there is a company that organises bridge climbs, however for safety/insurance reasons, access to the climb, and where you can go on the bridge is strictly limited, and always in the company of many others, and tour guides. So I think the opportunity to place/look for a cache on top would be pretty much non existant.

[+Markwell]

I just wish the 800 width image was actually 800 pixels wide.

[wheetree]

Thanks for the info. What I had was based on what I'd seen on the Travel Channel on TV.

 

Any chance signal will go visit His Royal Highness Prince Leonard of Hutt River while on the Aussie continent?

 

That's one country with no caches yet. Maybe one can get placed there this month.

Edited September 2, 2006 by wheetree

[+TuuronTour]

Tourists can still climb the Rock, although the local indigenous population "prefers" you dont, however its not illegal, ect. The area is a huge tourist drawcard, with a major part of that drawcard being the ability to climb the Rock.

 

Why is the word "prefers" quoted? The Aboriginals won't prohibit it, but they really don't like tourists tramping around at their sacred mountain. Is it so hard to respect their feelings? In my opinion, walking around Uluru without climbing and then watching the sunset colouring the monolith is a nice enough experience. I am sure Signal would have loved quietly watching the sunset with an ammo at his feet

 

And while you are there, don't forget to take a detour to Kata Tjuta (aka the Olga's) - a less known place but as beautiful as Uluru and walking there isn't a problem.

Edited September 2, 2006 by TuuronTour

[+Hynr]

Is there a particular reason why there might not be any geocachers among those people who consider themselves to be aboriginal? Geocaching is for everyone.

[+ibycus]

Tourists can still climb the Rock, although the local indigenous population "prefers" you dont, however its not illegal, ect. The area is a huge tourist drawcard, with a major part of that drawcard being the ability to climb the Rock.

 

Why is the word "prefers" quoted? The Aboriginals won't prohibit it, but they really don't like tourists tramping around at their sacred mountain. Is it so hard to respect their feelings? In my opinion, walking around Uluru without climbing and then watching the sunset colouring the monolith is a nice enough experience. I am sure Signal would have loved quietly watching the sunset with an ammo at his feet

 

And while you are there, don't forget to take a detour to Kata Tjuta (aka the Olga's) - a less known place but as beautiful as Uluru and walking there isn't a problem.

 

I can think of lots of reasons why 'prefers' might be quoted.

Are you sure for example that all Aboriginals have the same preferences? (which is what you imply very strongly). Never been to Australia or met any of the Australian aboriginal population (at least not that I know of), but I imagine that just like any population of sufficient size, they probably have varying preferences. Quoting would simply be a way of stating an official/average position.

 

Now I'm sure that some of them really do have some pretty strong feelings about it, but I'd be willing to bet that some of them don't really care, and others probably feel they should care but don't really, and others that don't care, as long as you respect the environment/the land as you go up (I for one have very strong feelings about morons who climb rocks and leave their trash strewn about everywhere), and still others that actually prefer that people *do* climb it (to get the whole understanding of being there, and to fully apreciate their sacred place).

[terrible2u]

for aboriginals its considered a sacred place. so are churches for me since i am a catholic. i couldnt care less. still i would not go into a church and have a piss in the corner.

 

already assuming some would not care is so plain ignorant. no wonder the whole world hates some western countries guts. its a sacred place. you would not want one to step over your fathers grave, would you? just because some people dont care, it does not mean certain behaviour is respectful or not.. think about it!

[+Lil Devil]

for aboriginals its considered a sacred place. so are churches for me since i am a catholic. i couldnt care less. still i would not go into a church and have a piss in the corner.

That's not an equivalent comparison. It's more like someone wants to come and climb my church's steeple. In that case I'd probably say "sure, go ahead." I'd probably join them.

 

its a sacred place. you would not want one to step over your fathers grave, would you?

My father is not objecting to it. Why should I?

[+ibycus]

for aboriginals its considered a sacred place. so are churches for me since i am a catholic. i couldnt care less. still i would not go into a church and have a piss in the corner.

 

already assuming some would not care is so plain ignorant. no wonder the whole world hates some western countries guts. its a sacred place. you would not want one to step over your fathers grave, would you? just because some people dont care, it does not mean certain behaviour is respectful or not.. think about it!

 

I'm assuming the above is directed at me. Personally I'd say assuming that everyone feels the same way is a darn site more ignorant than assuming that there is some difference in opinion, but hey that's just me.

 

Who says the placement of the cache can't be done in a respectful manner? Highlighting why its a sacred place, and educating people a little bit about the meaning of the rock to the native people?

 

There are plenty of caches in and around cemetaries, some respectful, some not so much. There was one I did in Gatineau, that was particularly good, highlighting some of the history of the area. It was very well done. I didn't feel that the cache was disrespectful in the slightest.

[wheetree]

Wow, I never thought this would be an angst thread. Sheeesh.

[terrible2u]

u guys might not have a girlfriend that used to guide around ayers rock. and which got upset a lot about people.

 

i think the white man gave enough pain to not only aboriginals. i think we should respect their culture. and as said, they dont want us to put our clean feet on their rock. if you want to place a cache around there. there is enough desert around it, where nobody will care. and looking at ayers rock is far more beautiful than climbing it. i am a climber, i know. if you do, no one will stop you from doing so. but everybody there will hate your guts. well, before this is really getting an angst thread, think about how americans are looked at in big parts of the world. do you want to spread that even further? it is ignorant and arrogant. if you want to do something cool, place one on top of everest. then you're the man. and it wont attract hords of people, trampling around on other peoples feelings and culture. my .02$!

 

BTW: some things are not about opinions. its about respect. if you dont have it, you will never understand. but hey, thats just mine..

[+BelKen]

One of the things people try and do albeit badly at times is try to reduce a complex culture into their own paradigm and thus fail to understand the underlying nuance of that culture.

 

Australian Aboriginals have over 250 different languages with another 700 dialects. They did not initially have a European sense of ownership although they have clear boundaries of belonging. So you would be correct that a traditional Aborigine from the shores of what we know as Sydney Harbour would not “care” about Uluru as such but would definitely understand the significance.

 

To try and put the sentence that the traditional people of Uluru prefer you do not climb the rock in context, think about inviting guests into your house. You are polite and show them around your home and say that one of your rooms is important to you and please do not enter. In a society of respect and understanding you should not need to say anymore. If the guests decided to ignore your polite request how would you feel?

 

It may be easy now to say that maybe they should word it more strongly. Not so in a culture where, whilst you have a guest you show them respect and courtesy. If you saw a sign at the base of the rock saying No Entry Trespassers prosecuted you may get the message but that would seem rather uncouth and an impolite way of talking to your guest

[+Bunya]

Excellently put, BelKen.

 

Any chance of the September Desktop being removed/changed?

 

A tiny bit of research would have shown how inappropriate it is.

[+Bear_Left]

Maybe Signal's just removing one of the fairly regular 'vacation caches' that get littered around Australia's tourist spots by tourists!

 

I haven't had any for awhile now, but I've seen a few doozies while wearing my reviewer hat (the one with the green antenna on it!)

 

(My favourite was the one that was wrongly listed and turned out to be 20+ miles from the second nearest cache and about 30 feet from the nearest one!)

[+Snuva]

It's been almost 10 years since I was at Uluru, but I remember the sign where the climb starts. The traditional owners do not climb Uluru because of its spiritual significance. They request that visitors don't either because of 1) how close the track goes to a traditional dream-time sites and 2) feeling a sense of responsibility for visitors to their land. Many visitors come to Uluru with 'lifelong dreams' of climbing it, however don't understand the climate in the Red Centre, the extreme desert heat, which is then reflected back at you if you are walking in the heat of the day without shade (and there's no shade on Uluru!). It is not uncommon for people to die of heat exhaustion, etc - someone had a heart attack on Uluru and died while I was there. Someone else had died the week before. And this was autumn, not even the height of summer! (I was happy not to climb - any excuse really - I love climbing but the heat was insane!) There are plaques to the memories of some of the people who have died during the climb, which together with the warning sign you would think would keep people off it! Climbing access rights were a condition before title was given back to the traditional owners.

[+BelKen]

Climbing access rights were a condition before title was given back to the traditional owners.

 

Yes one of our finest hours.

 

Mr Abroginal you have no form of ownership so by King George we must own it. Now we will give it back to you but beware tourism is important to our culture so don't interfere with that.

[terrible2u]

nice, there is still people with a sense in them around..

 

might go climbing whoever wants. i hope they all drop dead from the rock, i couldnt care less, but it would make my day and put a smile on my face.. they get what they deserve.

[Pipanella]

What an interesting thread. I'm not from Australia and have never been there, but hope to visit someday. We have friends in Bangor (Sydney). I don't know if I'll ever visit Ayers Rock, but I'd love it if I get the opportunity, and I do appreciate the information presented here, even though there's obviously disagreement about things. If I ever do get there, I wouldn't climb it, I'd simply admire it and be in awe of it.

 

By the way, my real first name means 'boomerang' in Aborigine.

[uperdooper]

remove the wallpaper? you've got to be kidding?

 

IT'S A FRIGGIN' CARTOON!!!!

 

if you don't like it, don't download it, but don't push your agenda on me.

 

 

 

BTW. i'm getting a whiff of socks.

[Jeremy]

I just wish the 800 width image was actually 800 pixels wide.

 

We fixed it. Thanks.

 

As for the wallpaper, to clarify, both Signal and the Travel Bug are actually not touching the rock itself but floating above the rock. Additionally Signal is retrieving the bug that was improperly placed by Dr. No, an evil cartoon villian who enjoys doing non PC things. The frame after this both Signal and the Travel Bug are fending off non-aboriginies from climbing the rock. Sadly our illustrator's machine crashed and we lost these panels.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Jeremy

[+Hoppingcrow]

[+Bunya]

Forget it.

Edited September 8, 2006 by Bunya

[+Riblit]

There appears to be a bit of interest in this so I'll pass on the feelings of the traditional owners as found on their imformative web page Kata Tjuta National Park

 

Please Don't Climb Uluru

 

Nganana Tatintja Wiya - 'We Never Climb'

 

The Uluru climb is the traditional route taken by ancestral Mala men upon their arrival to Uluru. Anangu do not climb Uluru because of its great spiritual significance.

 

UluruAnangu have not closed the climb. They prefer that you - out of education and understanding - choose to respect their law and culture by not climbing. Remember that you are a guest on Anangu land.

 

Also, Anangu traditionally have a duty to safeguard visitors to their land. They feel great sadness when a person dies or is hurt.

 

Hynr asked if there is a particular why there might not be aboriginal geocachers. There is no reason, in fact there are geocachers of aboriginal descent.

 

There are a lot of sacred sites here, Uluru is probably the best known from a tourist viewpoint.

 

As an aside, I wonder how may people read the front page text here and try to find the mythical state of Uluru?

[+Bundyrumandcoke]

I'll take a large serve of that pie, thanks, with a little humble topping on top.

[+Bear_Left]

... the bug that was improperly placed by Dr. No, an evil cartoon villian who enjoys doing non PC things.

 

I look forward to the US leg of the round-the-world trip!

 

Will it be up one of the President's noses at Mount Rushmore? Under the skirts of the Statue of Liberty? Disguised as a cross in Arlington National Cemetary?

 

The anticipation of seeing what that sensibility-trampling Dr. No gets up to next is thrilling!

[+mtn-man]

You blinked and missed it. It was July and it was the Statue of Liberty. Well, Signal was the Statue of Liberty, that is. FYI... Signal coins are following the wallpaper for a while. July's wallpaper looked like the July coin.

 

http://signalgeocoinstore.com/index.php?ma...;products_id=11

[Aushiker]

G'day

 

Well I have set it as my desktop for the month ....as it is only a cartoon but it does not hurt in my view to be considerate and tolerant of other's culturals and for that matter to be a bit more informed about them before passing judgement.

 

Regards

Andrew

Edited September 9, 2006 by Aushiker