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Stupid Lowrance Question


WR8Y

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I know this was discussed before, but I CAN NOT find the thread.

 

What SD or MMC cards are to be avoided with a Lowrance (Expedition C in my case) GPSr??

 

I know someone once told me that certain brands didn't seem to work well, while others do. I intend to go to WalMart or where ever after work and get a 128mb card for my next vacation...

 

Thanks for any input!

 

Mark

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WR8Y,

It seemed real hit or miss on what cards had problems when I was reading about that. I know a few had problems w/ Kingston (which is a decent brand). A Ritek 1Gb I have worked fine for one card. I fixed the whole deal and bought a 1Gb SanDisk on sale at Circuit City for $24.

 

Z

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Hit or Miss? <--- Yea, that's what I remember, too!

 

TigerGPS is selling Delkins as accessories to Lowrance GPSrs, and I do remember hearing that SanDisk works.

 

But that's all I can remember. There WAS a post from one or two guys that had tried several, but I don't remember where it was and couldn't find it.

 

I'm gonna go to WalMart at lunch and see what they sell. But I am gonna get it clear with them if they will take it back if it won't work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by WR8Y
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I remember you, AirMapper!

 

So, since you are here, what would you suggest for an external antenna for the Expedition C?

 

90 degree or straight antenna connector????? (I know I want a Gillson antenna, but have heard conflicting advice on the 90 degree connector.)

 

Thanks

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90 degree or straight antenna connector????? (I know I want a Gillson antenna, but have heard conflicting advice on the 90 degree connector.)

 

Thanks

W...,

The antenna that I (and Airmapper I believe) have is the one included w/ the aviation units from Lowrance. It is active, and has the 90 deg connector. It fits well with the RAM mount and lays flat on a surface outside the mount. I would guess the straight plug would protrude at least 1/2"-3/4" including the strain relief. Something to plan for. The connector snaps in nice and tight.

 

Z

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I remember you, AirMapper!

 

So, since you are here, what would you suggest for an external antenna for the Expedition C?

 

90 degree or straight antenna connector????? (I know I want a Gillson antenna, but have heard conflicting advice on the 90 degree connector.)

 

Thanks

 

Looks like I missed your post, but CO-Zman has you covered.

 

He's right, I have an RAA-3, It's probably close if not identical to his. I have heard that a Gillison will work with a Lowrance, I'd give it a closer look. I think the 90 deg would be better, a straight one might pull out all the time.

 

Lowrance has 4 different models, but I think only 2 of them are compatible with the common handhelds, the RAA-3 is Amplified, but I don't think the FA-8 is.

 

LEI Extras:

Lowrance RAA-3= $103.95

Lowrance FA-8 = $91.95

 

I seen an amplified Gillison for around $20 HERE But have no ideaof the quality.

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1) Well, I bought a SanDisk 256M SD card at WalMart last night for $18.88 - and it works just fine.

 

2) I did order the Gillson antenna, found one for $28.54 including "Priority US Mail Shipping", but took some possibly bad advice and got the strait connector. If I think it works well, I will order another with the 90 degree connector. (I have use for two antennas, anyway.) If it doesn't not act like I think it should, I will order the active antenna from LEI. I thought that for under $30 it was worth the risk of an off-brand antenna, and besides, I HAVE read some positive stuff here about the Gillson antennas.

 

But thanks a bunch for your (all/both of you) input!!!!

 

This place is a treasure-trove of advice, knowledge and experience.

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2) I did order the Gillson antenna, found one for $28.54 including "Priority US Mail Shipping", but took some possibly bad advice and got the strait connector. If I think it works well, I will order another with the 90 degree connector. (I have use for two antennas, anyway.) If it doesn't not act like I think it should, I will order the active antenna from LEI. I thought that for under $30 it was worth the risk of an off-brand antenna, and besides, I HAVE read some positive stuff here about the Gillson antennas.

I have seen plenty of positives on the Gillson brand antennas. I'm pretty confident you will be happy...and $90+ richer by not buying the LEI one :blink:

 

Z

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Mine came yesterday - two days in shipment by USPS for $8.45 - and that's from CA to GA !!

 

The postal service has improved, hasn't it? ;)

 

The antenna works fairly well on it's own, but when used with at least a 8 inch diameter steel 'ground plane', the improvement is surprising. I did some experiments at the house, yes indoors, and signal level improvement on the (hidden) sat data screen showed 10-16 db increase in most signal's signal-to-noise ratio.

 

For under $30 with shipping, I am very impressed. Had I not found this forum, I'd have shelled out $100+ for the RAA3!

 

(I still wonder how much difference there would be between Gillson's antenna and the RAA-3. :o If any money falls from the sky, I"m gonna get one just to experiment!)

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I was worried about cable loss, so I went with the 9 foot model.

 

But cable loss is probably no big deal - my GPSr doen'st work well in the Ranger, as I have it 'hidden' from the windows too much. ANY antenna on the roof will help!

 

Amazing what you can get for $25 these days (unless you are buying gas....)

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I think you'll be ok. I think that cable is RG-174, and has a loss of something like 17 db per 100 feet at 1.5 gHz.

 

So you'd be looking at 3-4 db loss, that's a lot, but given that the amp is good for 10-25 db gain AND antenna placement is EVERYTHING - I think you are just fine! If you loose 4 db in the cable, but get 10 or 20 db more at the antenna due to a better location and it's gain - then you are way ahead, anyway! :o

 

I just ordered another Gillson with 9' cable from GPSGeek, this time with the 90 degree connector.

 

Now to wait for the heat to subside and head out to the woods... (Just started building a backpack adapter/groundplane to mount the antenna on for the trail.)

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I don't get it guys. Granted, I don't know anything about using GPS in flight, so maybe an external antenna is necessary there. But, why do you need to rig one up for the woods? Are you having reception issues? Heck, I get signal in my family room at home and if I'm just adding waypoints I don't really even need a signal. You can set the Lowrance to use without it trying to get a signal.

 

Now, if you're just trying to push the limits and see 12+ sats everywhere, then carry on as I'm sure super-charging your GPS is probably fun. However, it almost appears that you're rigging up the external because of reception problems.

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My unit is not blessed with the latest Sirf chip, having the external on it does give it better signal in any conditions.

 

As for on a backpack, the unit will loose it's signal strength when you stuff it in a pocket, and unless you want to hold it during the entire hike, having the external antenna will let you have good signal while you have the unit tucked away. And with that, a good trail.

 

Edit: Wording

Edited by Airmapper
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I have a Gilsson straight external antenna that I used with my old Whistler Galileo Elite 200. For various reasons a 90-degree right angle antenna won't work with that unit, the plug doesn't go in well. I've since swapped it for a Lowrance IWay 100M. While both types will work in that unit (the straight plug snaps in and stays quite snug), I would suggest the right angle. What I find with the straight is that it keeps the port cover quite a ways out and I imagine after awhile of use the cover won't go back in as well. I may even eBay my antenna and swap it for a right angle one.

 

Of course, the new Lowrance units are SiRF and may not need the antenna anyway. Good luck!

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I am glad some of the comments made in the past 6 posts were made. This gives me a chance to address some issues.

 

I wish I had pictures, but I don't - anyway, here we go..........

 

I have a Lowrance Expedition C, and the biggest thing I do with it is record trails of the hiking paths in every state park within ($3 a gallon :) ) driving range of the house. I got my GPSr in March of this year and started recording trails right away. No problems, I DID notice that by turning off "Track Smoothing" I got nicer, more accurate trails. (Track Smoothing is a topic for another thread, but I thought I"d mention it.)

 

Anyway, by the end of May I noticed that, under the THICK tree cover of summer, that on some trails I was seeing some accuracy issues. One trail that I recorded early in the year came up over 125 feet off as I used this trail to get to a 'new area'! By stopping and letting the GPSr think and calculate - the cursor moved to where it was in the early spring. Also, I saw some odd "jumps" in recorded trails. These were not severe, but the trail would 'jump' left or right by 30 feet or so at times - again, under heavy tree cover.

 

Now, a 30 foot jump is nothing, and on the grand scheme of things, even having a trail off 150 feet in a 10,000 acre park is no big deal - but Pizzaguy has always been an obsessive perfectionist! :P

 

So, I wanted to see if I can make accurate trails in the dead of summer. I thought, judging from the weak signals (as displayed on the sat screen) under tree cover, that maybe an amplified antenna would help.

 

Also, perhaps an amplified antenna would enable me to tuck the GPSr away as I walked, without worry about it not 'seeing' the sats.

 

So, I bought one of those "Gilson" antennas that you can find on eBay, GPSGeek, etc.

 

I played around with it in the house (where I can usually get a lock anyway...) and noticed that it DID provide considerable gain! I also noticed that, using the antenna by itself provided about 3-8 db gain, putting it on a 7-8 inch diameter metal disk, it's gain almost doubled! I then noticed that increasing the size of the metal disk beyond this had VERY LITTLE effect.

 

So, how do I provide a metal disk on the trial?????????? The answer was at a local Lowe's "Home Improvement Center". I bought 10 feet of 3/4" PVC pipe and a BUNCH of elbows, t's and splices. (I already had the PVC cement from a plumbing job 2 years ago...)

 

I grabbed an old can of stain that had gone bad and took it's lid. This lid is 7-8 inches in diameter and made of metal. I used some old L-brackets and screws and mounted the lid to the end of a 16" length of PVC pipe. I put a hole in the lid to pass the cable thru and stuck the antenna to the lid. The next step was to make a PVC pipe frame that would fit thru the straps of my hydration backpack. The center top of this frame had a PVC Tee in it. The antenna assembly is plugged into the Tee and the pack is thrown on my back. I now have an antenna sticking up behind my head, about 4 inches above my scalp - totally in the clear of my head or body!

 

So, how does it work? Did I get anywhere? Well, I hiked three times this weekend, totalling just over 9 miles. I certainly see MUCH BETTER signals! I hiked the 1.85 mile loop in High Falls State park twice - once with the external antenna and once without it.

 

Results????????????????

 

Both tracks were accurate, but the non-external antenna one had several 'jumps' or corrections in it. Also, when I stopped to let the dog do what dogs do, the track stayed still on the external antenna - but with no external antenna, the GPSr made a little 'squiggle' as it tried to calculate on the weaker signals.

 

In summary, I don't think the external antenna is needed for the average hiker/geocacher/etc.

 

But if you are a techie-type, or an obsessed perfectionist, or you like looking odd as you walk the trail with a paint-can-lid-GPS-antenna - then the effort is worth it! :) Seriously - the external antenna removes the problem of always having to keep the GPSr out where it can 'see' the sky; I can tuck the GPSr away and not worry about it - that alone is worth the effort of the external antenna to me!

 

Two more things: PVC pipe is white, I painted the pipe, can lid and all brackets black to make them a bit less ugly or obvious. Also, I will TRY to post some pictures tomorrow IF it looks like anyone is interested.

 

Mark

Edited by WR8Y
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Thanks for sharing the information, Mark. :P If you are willing to post picture, I'm certainly interested!

 

My iFinder GO performs much better in the forest with Track Smoothing OFF also, even though this should be a topic in another thread. It also exhibits many of the symptoms you mention, where it starts to guess in environment hostile to reception. In my area, redwood forests pose quite a challenge. Unlike my eTrex, though, it retains lock so once I reach an area with better reception, it "snaps back" to accuracy.

 

I've seen how a Gilsson significantly improves reception for Garmin GPSMap 60c, a unit notorious for giving up too easily in tree cover. The drain in battery life is noticeable, too.

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BTW, Lowrance's response to the "What size SD card can be used in the iFinder series FPS's"

 

Thank you for your inquiry. The biggest we recommend is a 512mb. There have been some people who have tried to use a 1gig and had a bunch of troubles. If you have any further questions feel free to contact us.

 

Thank you for choosing Lowrance Products.

 

Lowrance Electronics

12000 E. Skelly Dr.

Tulsa, OK 74128

800-324-1356

 

LEI Extras - Accessories

http://www.lei-extras.com

800-324-0045

Edited by ic3scrap3r
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Ok, here are some not-very-good pictures, but maybe they will make clear what I built.

 

A view of the completed frame and antenna - not attached to the hydration pack, of course!

a_32.jpg

 

The Antenna on it's mount.

a_36.jpg

 

The 2 piece frame.

a_35.jpg

The bottom part is cemented together, but I just stick it onto the rest of the frame so

that the assembly comes apart from the backpack. The antenna assembly is also just stuck into the main frame the same way. The PVC pipe is white - I spray painted everything black but had to sand off the paint of any mating surfaces so they'd go together - you can see this in the pictures.

Edited by WR8Y
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Here's a close up of the paint-can-lid mount, it's brackets and the PVC pipe mast.

a_33.jpg

 

I could not get the lighting right (need a new camera), but here's the frame (without antenna) strapped to the pack.

a_37.jpg

 

How about just putting the metal disk and antennae on top of a boonie hat?

 

Probably would work, but the antenna mounted to the disk doesn't pick up well unless it's kept pretty level with the horizon. I like to look up at the sky, watch birds, etc., and thought that this was a good "never have to bother with it" solution.

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I didn't know that the angle to the horizon made that big a difference.

It does - and I base that not on something I read, but by what the GPSr did when I bent down to go under a tree limb.

 

I then did some experiments in the clear, out by the road. I duplicated what I saw in the woods, and that was with a clear view of MOST of the sky!

 

Yea, it wasn't as compact in version #1 - a version that didn't make it out of my yard! I cut things down a lot - and tha'ts why you see unpainted parts in the frame - I didn't have time to paint again before hiking saturday, and have not bothered since then.

 

Now, to go get a better camera...

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ok, got my gilson 25' antenna monday, hooked it up to my M&M using an 1gb OCZ sd card.

the map came out, it displayed the streets. however, the "?" icon continued to flash. i wasnt outside because it was raining, i was partially outside, the arrows did however, move which is a good sign.

 

i have a question, what are those two screws for? there are two holes on the magnetic base, wont go all the way in w/o excessive force or w/o a screw driver. i have not screwd them in. should i?

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ok, got my gilson 25' antenna monday, hooked it up to my M&M using an 1gb OCZ sd card.

the map came out, it displayed the streets. however, the "?" icon continued to flash. i wasnt outside because it was raining, i was partially outside, the arrows did however, move which is a good sign.

What kinda building were you in? My GPSr works inside, and REALLY WORKS GOOD INSIDE on the Gillson antenna when on it's mount. But my house is one story and all wood.

 

i have a question, what are those two screws for? there are two holes on the magnetic base, wont go all the way in w/o excessive force or w/o a screw driver. i have not screwd them in. should i?

THey are for mounting the antenna permanently to a roof, etc. I threw them away.

 

(On some Gillson's, you can remove the magnets, too - I read that here, somewhere. Not that I ever would, but I THINK any antenna that ships with screws has removable magnets.)

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ok, got my gilson 25' antenna monday, hooked it up to my M&M using an 1gb OCZ sd card.

the map came out, it displayed the streets. however, the "?" icon continued to flash. i wasnt outside because it was raining, i was partially outside, the arrows did however, move which is a good sign.

What kinda building were you in? My GPSr works inside, and REALLY WORKS GOOD INSIDE on the Gillson antenna when on it's mount. But my house is one story and all wood.

 

i first tested the gilson at my mom's house(split level three story house, i was partially outside, because it was raining, i just stood by the doorway and sticking the antenna outside, then just now inside a 6 story apt. i live on the 5th floor. i attached the antenna on a coffee can and placed it by the edge touching the screen. still no reception. i however, did not unroll the cable. incidentally how was your antenna packed? mine was crudely packed in a bubblewrap!

 

 

i have a question, what are those two screws for? there are two holes on the magnetic base, wont go all the way in w/o excessive force or w/o a screw driver. i have not screwd them in. should i?

THey are for mounting the antenna permanently to a roof, etc. I threw them away.

 

(On some Gillson's, you can remove the magnets, too - I read that here, somewhere. Not that I ever would, but I THINK any antenna that ships with screws has removable magnets.)

 

with the screw holes arent you worried about water seeping in?

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with the screw holes arent you worried about water seeping in?

 

I better take another look. I assumed (oh, there I go again) that the screw holes are just that - holes in the base but not that they are 'open' to the inside. I'll look tonight again.

 

(But I do have several types of caulk I can use anyway.)

 

Thanks for the 'heads up'.

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how was your gilson packed? mine was just wrapped in a bubble pack. i really dont get much improvement with the 25'. maybe i should've gotten the 9'. would unravelling the coil help"

Mine was in a bubble wrap then in a box.

 

Coiled coax cable is no problem - so don't worry about that.

 

I WISH I could attach pictures of the screens w/ and w/o the antenna ... but using the 'secret' button presses that give you the sat sigs page (you can find that in this forum, somewhere) you can get a constantly-updating chart that gives you the sig-to-noise ratios for each sat. THAT is where I got my estimates of gain.

 

I just cannot believe that 16 feet of cable would make THAT much difference.

 

Can SOMEONE else chime in here???? Has anyone else used 25 feet of cable on an external antenna???

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The book says 3 mA. Not much to worry about BUT, I am working on using the 12v adapter on the hiking trail! HOW? With a 12 volt battery in the backpack - of course! When I get THAT built, I'll post pictures.

 

I mean, face it, the backlight is the battery hog!

 

(I also meant to bring the GPSr to work and set it up on the bench and measure the battery drain:

 

Alone.

Alone with backlight on.

With external antenna.

With external antenna AND backlight on.

 

If I can run home at lunch, I'll bring it in, test it, and post the results - that is, IF things stay slow around here!

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Slightly OT question, but how much do they charge for shipping? I'm wanting to buy a data cable from them. They appear to be a reputable company.

 

Airmapper,

Did you find a Lowrance data cable there...I can't. I want to get an aftermarket power/data cable combo.

 

Z

 

No, I need a Garmin cable. :laughing: The Lowrance cables were $40 before shipping at LEI, and all I need is something to feed NMEA to a laptop, so I'm looking at a $20 Power/ Data combo cable for my Garmin 72. I wish they made aftermarket for Lowrance, they are expensive from the company.

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Slightly OT question, but how much do they charge for shipping? I'm wanting to buy a data cable from them. They appear to be a reputable company.

 

Airmapper,

Did you find a Lowrance data cable there...I can't. I want to get an aftermarket power/data cable combo.

 

Z

 

No, I need a Garmin cable. :) The Lowrance cables were $40 before shipping at LEI, and all I need is something to feed NMEA to a laptop, so I'm looking at a $20 Power/ Data combo cable for my Garmin 72. I wish they made aftermarket for Lowrance, they are expensive from the company.

 

you might want to check these out, however they use serial cables http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-Interface-Cable-for...5QQcmdZViewItem

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So does this draw its power from your GPSr's batteries?

 

I suppose in the car I'd have it running from the DC power cable. But when outdoors how much does it add to battery consumption?

 

I did some experiments this weekend.

I left my notes home, later today or tomorrow I will post the results. But for now, the GPSr consumed about 120 mA (.12 amp) and about 145 with backlight on.

 

Adding the external antenna added something like 15 mA (.015 amp). So, I'd say about 10% greater drain on the batteries.

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Got my notes at lunchtime...

 

Power up and for the first 15 seconds: 230 mA

 

Normal operation with no backlight and no external antenna: 125 mA

 

Normal operation with backlight on: 140 mA

 

In every case, adding the Gillson External amplified antenna ran the current up by almost 20 mA.

 

A note about battery capacity:

You would think that an additional drain of 20 mA would not matter much - but regular, non-recharable batteries like to supply LITTLE CURRENT for a LONG TIME.

 

That is to say, if you draw, say, 100 mA from a generic, dime-store battery - you might get 12 hours.

Now, if you draw 200 mA you might THINK you'd get 6 hours - but likely, you'd get about 3 to 4!

 

I have noticed that leaving my backlight on will cut battery life IN HALF, even tho the math doesn't predict such a thing. This is why those battery ads say, "our battery will give 20% more time in this toy, 50% more time in your flashlight, and 150% more time in your smoke alarm"... it's 'cause battery chemistry is kinda complicated. (You know - like a woman! :P )

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