Did I do the right thing to log these as finds?

[+cloversmom]

These match the description, but after reading a different log, I realized that the actual benchmark is probably below ground, not just the post. So, I have probably just seen a cover and not the benchmark...

 

Are these just not findable by a layman, or what is the deal?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=HT1010

 

http://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=HT1009

 

Thanks for your help!

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

It looks like you found the covers to two monument wells as you thought. You most likely found the proper locations, but in order to verify them, you'll need lift the covers. The layman can do this, as there's no law against it, but it may draw some unwanted attention.

 

Lifting the lids could be a simple process and they could come up easily, but when these lids aren't frequently opened, it can be a bit more difficult. Care must be taken: they are commonly cast iron and can get brittle with age. I've broken more than one trying to open them.

 

- Kewaneh

[+Black Dog Trackers]

cloversmom -

 

What you have found is exactly as you have figured out - those are merely covers for the holes the actual disks are in. In order to log a find on such things, one must open the cover and photograph the actual disk. This is because there is a probability (very low, of course) that what is under the cover is either not the correct disk or something else altogether.

 

I imagine you will need a screwdriver to open the cover. Then you would likely have to clean out the hole and the disk so that a picture of it will show the Designation "31 D C OF O" and "31 E C OF O". This might be more trouble than you want to take with these marks. There are plenty of others.

 

If you choose not to try to open the covers, I would suggest posting a note for these. Some would post Didn't Find It, but I generally will use Write Note when I go near the mark, but, for whatever reason, don't actually look for it.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Heh, 2 posts at the same time!

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Heh, 2 posts at the same time!

Yeah.... kind of E.S.P.ish too.

[AZcachemeister]

Well, it looks as if you found a good possibility of the mark location, under the round covers.

 

In my understanding of the activity (or at least for MY logs) a photo of the actual disc is needed. Preferably with the identification stamping on the disc readable, and with your GPSr in the photo, showing the co-ordinates (hopefully also readable).

 

These marks in question seem to be in fairly public places, and you may or may not need to go to some lengths to get the 'required' pictures. If it's a low-traffic area, you might get away with prying the cover up, laying the GPSr down near the opening and snapping a picture. If a high-traffic area, you may need to dress the part, and wear work clothes, a safety vest, hardhat, carry a clipboard, and be very confident in your explanation that you are documenting survey markers (which is the truth, yes?).

 

I'm sure somebody will say the pictures you posted are good enough, and in the end it really depends on how you want to play. I have seen plenty of 'Found It' logs with no photo whatsoever.

[+cloversmom]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I am going to change my logs to notes and try to open them when I am near there next week. One is in an area that it probably wouldn't attract too much attention.

 

I also didn't know about the GPS being in the picture!!

[Bill93]

I think photos are good, but not essential. Verifying that it is the right disk is essential for a FOUND report.

 

If you can safely peek under the covers and read the disk that's enough for me--don't worry about a photo with the GPS in it. Watch out for critters in any hole you poke in. Don't try this in the middle of a street. The pros with all their barricades and safety gear sometimes have dangerous encounters with traffic.

[+cloversmom]

I think photos are good, but not essential. Verifying that it is the right disk is essential for a FOUND report.

 

If you can safely peek under the covers and read the disk that's enough for me--don't worry about a photo with the GPS in it. Watch out for critters in any hole you poke in. Don't try this in the middle of a street. The pros with all their barricades and safety gear sometimes have dangerous encounters with traffic.

 

Thanks Bill,

 

These are on the sidewalk. Even an obsession with geocaching isn't worth getting run over by a car!!

[+Black Dog Trackers]

My opinion is that a GPS receiver in the closeup picture of the disk is unnecessary and significantly detracts from the picture of the disk so I never do it. Certainly the NGS has no such requirement for disk photos submitted to them.

 

A look at the Benchmark Gallery showing the latest efforts of benchmark hunters will show that:

1. most people don't bother with the GPS in the picture

2. the best closeup pictures of disks are without the GPS in the picture

[StripeMark]

I also would say to not bother with getting the GPS in the photo.

 

I usually don't have the GPS with me anyway!

 

It also is a good idea to have an area view included.

Edited August 21, 2006 by StripeMark

[sixthings]

How about if the designation was stamped on the cover? I recall a thread (from several years ago) where most agreed that a metal cover or logo cap with the designation stamped on it did not require an opening and internal examination to constitute a righteous find.

 

Is my recollection correct?

 

6

[mloser]

I don't recall discussing the admission of lids with indications as valid proof that the mark was inside, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I do know that if such a discussion took place it didn't affect me. I won't consider a mark found until I have seen it. If that means opening a lid in a public place then I will (and have) done it. And I recall one case where a metal rod I found inside the cover seemed bent a bit, so opening the top seemed to be valuable.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

I think I can provide the distinction on this.

 

There are 2 kinds of marks with lids.

 

1. A disk in a hole covered by a lid.

There certainly never was a 'rule' that said it was OK to log a find by just taking a picture of such a lid. A picture should be taken of the disk itself, just like with any other disk.

 

2. A rod marker in a hole covered by a lid.

There was a topic of discussion on this type a year or so ago. It was pretty much decided among participants of the discussion that, for this kind of situation, 3 kinds of closeup pictures is the ideal:

a. a closeup of the lid closed to see how it looks on the ground,

b. an extreme closeup if possible of the designation. On such marks the designation is written on the rim next to the lid; there is nothing written on the rod itself.

c. a closeup picture of the rod (with the lid open, of course).

 

In both cases, the idea is that it is only a valid find if you open the lid and take a picture of the mark under it. The lid doesn't count as a find. Alternatively, using Bill93's point, you must at least open the lid and confirm that the correct mark is underneath it.

Edited August 21, 2006 by Black Dog Trackers

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Here is the old topic.

[sixthings]

Got it.

Thanks

[2oldfarts (the rockhounders)]

We always have the GPSr in the close-up of the benchmark. It serves the purpose of having a permanent record of what the coordinates are at that particular benchmark. (of course you do have to be able to read the coordinates and designation on the benchmark.) It makes logging them easier since both disk (designation) and coordinates are in the same picture.

 

It also helps others who may look at the picture to narrow the search for the mark.

 

John

[+ClickChik]

I think photos are good, but not essential. Verifying that it is the right disk is essential for a FOUND report.

 

If you can safely peek under the covers and read the disk that's enough for me--don't worry about a photo with the GPS in it. Watch out for critters in any hole you poke in. Don't try this in the middle of a street. The pros with all their barricades and safety gear sometimes have dangerous encounters with traffic.

 

That's the problem with this mark 760 ADJ Reset. There -is- a round cover, but its out in the middle of a very busy intersection of two 4 lane roads.... Only time I would feel safe at that corner in the street is about 4:00 AM, and I think the kind officers of Gurnee would not be amused.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

ClickChik -

 

Forget about that one! There are 700,000 others to look for!

[+YeOleImposter]

Does anyone have a special tool to lift these lids?

 

When we were on vacation I found that all of the disks along 2 roads had these kinds of lids. I used a screw driver on the last 2 I found and it took a lot of work. The cast iron lids must have weighed 2 pounds and could trying to get a a grip on them was next to impossible.

 

The center hole in the lid makes it appear that a simple tool could have lifted it straight out. Even a bolt on a piece of nylon twine might work. Just wondered what others were using and will add it to my 'tool box'.

[StripeMark]

I usually use a screwdriver, or the handle of a pliers works well also. Just be very careful with your fingers. I've opened a few of these up before that have had some nasty critters inside (and I've always wondered how they get in there in the first place!).

[+m&h]

Those iron lids with the center hole can sometimes be rusted into the top of the pipe that protects the mark. We found quite a number of them in coastal Washington and Oregon a few months ago, and got a lot of help here with the question where the stamping was (on the outer lip of the pipe, visible even with the lid in place, after the rim is cleaned off). We've had the most luck opening them with an L-shaped tire iron. The short leg is only a couple of inches long, so it slides into the hole easily. If gentle leverage on the hole is not enough to tip the lid loose, we put a pair of vise-grips (snap-plars, they called them where we grew up) up on the long end where we could tap it with a hammer, with the tire iron pulled firmly up against the underside of the lid. One or two taps will usually loosen the lid enough to go back to the gentle leverage.

 

There's a temptation to just slide the iron up and down so the short end smacks the underside of the lid. It might work, but cast iron can be surprisingly easy to crack that way. Not that we've seen it happen.