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Cancer Cache


Totem Clan
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We are planning to place a cache in one of the local parks in the next few weeks. I just want to come here and see what some of you folks think of the idea.

 

The cache will be a theme cache of sorts. The theme is cancer awareness and survival, specifically breast cancer.

 

The container is a waterproof 1 gallon storage container that looks like a barrel. Before camo'ing it, we sprayed it pink. The pink show on the inside. Also we placed ribbon designs on the outside before painting it so that when removed it left pink ribbons on the outside.

 

We are planning on naming the cache "Save the TaTa's". It's our hope that the name will attract cachers to it and maybe educate them on cancer. Is the name over the top, or is it a good name for the cache?

 

The cache will be filled with cancer awareness pamphlets, ribbons, wrist bands and other such cancer awareness martial.

 

Although the cache is "dedicated" to breast cancer, it will also have info and martial from all types of cancer. We also want people to post their personal stories about cancer in the log and online.

 

Is this a good idea or not? Please let me know what you think of it.

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Great question, and a good example of a 'fuzzy' guideline that deserves clarification.

 

Take the man's suggestion and ask Grounsdpeak. The guideline reads:

Solicitations are also off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

As written an agenda is an example of and tied to solicitation, and I don't see any solicitation of any sort here.

 

Wikipedia defines agenda, in part, thusly:

Another definition of political agenda that often goes unrecognized in the individual is one's goals. A political agenda in this sense is one's own goals, whether they are moral, ethical, social or any number of other adjectives. The person who buys a plate for eating and serving food is likely to have agenda when walking into a store; we can guess that that person wants a place to eat food or that she is planning to host a social gathering. A strikingly large number of people act without recognizing their own (political) agendas, which is entirely questionable as history shows us that success is unlikely to be repeated without planning. This inattention to recognizing agendas and goals leads to stupidity and sometimes death [3].

 

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_agenda"

Under that definition every listing might have an agenda - introducing you to a mountain view is an agenda, as is the hidden agenda of promoting excercize for better health.

 

I would ask in what way this listing promotes what agenda. Is awareness and education an agenda?

 

Are themed caches by definition promoting an agenda?

 

As described it asks nothing of the finder - no contribution, no adoption of any belief, no oath of loyalty, no action or transaction of any sort is solicited of the finder. It doesn't even ask the finder to trade theme-related material.

 

The Reviewers have insight into a submitted cache listing's detail that we don't, so if a listing has been submitted it may be worded differently, but if the listing matches this description, I can't see its awareness and education theme as an agenda.

 

The pink ribbon thing might be close to the line, I don't know - It may represent a specific charitable organization... I think it's just a public-awareness icon for the whole topic of breast cancer, but I may be wrong.

 

If the pamphlets promote a particular breast cancer organization or charity, that could be a problem, but if the pamphlets run along the lines of "breast cancer is a danger, get checked early and often" they are education, not promotion.

 

Using a cache to promote awareness of breast cancer and its prevention is promoting what agenda? Educating cachers on the need for breast cancer awareness and prevention? This is different than promoting awareness of and education about the local courthouse's history in what way?

 

I am no expert, but this appears to be within the published guidelines as this geocacher understands them.

 

I would certainly ask for clarification.

 

Ed

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Within the past several weeks there was a cache just like what was described here, except for a different disease. No donations were requested. The cache page was chock full of educational information about the disease, and the cache contents were themed to awareness of that disease.

 

On appeal, Groundspeak denied posting this cache because promoting awareness of the disease constitutes an agenda. The owner then geocided very publicly in his local forum, and adopted out all his caches.

 

I am trying to deliver a straight, no-nonsense message because Totem Clan is a buddy of mine and I don't want to see any more geocides.

 

Here's a quote from Rothstafari from Groundspeak. The emphasis in bold was added by me, to illustrate that the guideline extends beyond charitable solicitations:

 

In keeping with Groundspeak’s policy of not permitting charity caches or caches that promote agendas or platforms, effective immediately, the two caches created recently [...] have been archived.

 

Questions like, “Why can’t I do a cache for my charity?” or “I don't like this organization, why can’t we create a [cache] for a different organization” make a couple of things clear.

 

First, we do not want to have to admit/deny caches based upon our perceived merits of the specific agenda, position, organization or charitable cause. Most opinions vary when it comes to issues like these and we have no interest in hosting the battleground or becoming an arbiter.

 

Second, this web site is about geocaching and we do not wish to see it converted to a platform for issues, whether good, bad or otherwise.

 

There are plenty of ways to donate to charity and plenty of ways to help out. We encourage you to find them and participate to the extent you believe it is right. We certainly do.

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Within the past several weeks there was a cache just like what was described here, except for a different disease. No donations were requested. The cache page was chock full of educational information about the disease, and the cache contents were themed to awareness of that disease.

 

On appeal, Groundspeak denied posting this cache because promoting awareness of the disease constitutes an agenda. The owner then geocided very publicly in his local forum, and adopted out all his caches.

 

I am trying to deliver a straight, no-nonsense message because Totem Clan is a buddy of mine and I don't want to see any more geocides.

 

Here's a quote from Rothstafari from Groundspeak. The emphasis in bold was added by me, to illustrate that the guideline extends beyond charitable solicitations:

 

In keeping with Groundspeak’s policy of not permitting charity caches or caches that promote agendas or platforms, effective immediately, the two caches created recently [...] have been archived.

 

Questions like, “Why can’t I do a cache for my charity?” or “I don't like this organization, why can’t we create a [cache] for a different organization” make a couple of things clear.

 

First, we do not want to have to admit/deny caches based upon our perceived merits of the specific agenda, position, organization or charitable cause. Most opinions vary when it comes to issues like these and we have no interest in hosting the battleground or becoming an arbiter.

 

Second, this web site is about geocaching and we do not wish to see it converted to a platform for issues, whether good, bad or otherwise.

 

There are plenty of ways to donate to charity and plenty of ways to help out. We encourage you to find them and participate to the extent you believe it is right. We certainly do.

 

Thanks for the clarification!

 

To me the quoted answer still applies to caches that solicit or promote a specific organization - If the cache mentioned "Promote the American Breast Cancer Association" I would totally agree - but unless I am missing something it doesn't.

 

Anyhoo, though it still appears fuzzy to me, I thank you for answering.

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Great question, and a good example of a 'fuzzy' guideline that deserves clarification.

 

<Snipped>

 

The pink ribbon thing might be close to the line, I don't know - It may represent a specific charitable organization... I think it's just a public-awareness icon for the whole topic of breast cancer, but I may be wrong.

 

If the pamphlets promote a particular breast cancer organization or charity, that could be a problem, but if the pamphlets run along the lines of "breast cancer is a danger, get checked early and often" they are education, not promotion.

 

<Snipped>

 

I would certainly ask for clarification.

 

Ed

The cache has not yet been placed or submitted. This is the first cache that I have considered that would even brush up against the guidelines, much less cross them. That's the reason I came here first, to use this forum as a sounding board.

 

If the ribbons were not on the container, thus not connecting it to the Breast Cancer Society, would it still be promoting an agenda? We never intended to ask, or even make mention of giving to any charity in anyway with this cache.

 

As far as the pamphlets go, they would be just the generic pamphlets that any clinic would give out.

 

I would like to see this cache placed, but I want it to be place correctly if it ever is.

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Within the past several weeks there was a cache just like what was described here, except for a different disease. No donations were requested. The cache page was chock full of educational information about the disease, and the cache contents were themed to awareness of that disease.

 

On appeal, Groundspeak denied posting this cache because promoting awareness of the disease constitutes an agenda. The owner then geocided very publicly in his local forum, and adopted out all his caches.

 

I am trying to deliver a straight, no-nonsense message because Totem Clan is a buddy of mine and I don't want to see any more geocides.

 

Here's a quote from Rothstafari from Groundspeak. The emphasis in bold was added by me, to illustrate that the guideline extends beyond charitable solicitations:

 

In keeping with Groundspeak’s policy of not permitting charity caches or caches that promote agendas or platforms, effective immediately, the two caches created recently [...] have been archived.

 

Questions like, “Why can’t I do a cache for my charity?” or “I don't like this organization, why can’t we create a [cache] for a different organization” make a couple of things clear.

 

First, we do not want to have to admit/deny caches based upon our perceived merits of the specific agenda, position, organization or charitable cause. Most opinions vary when it comes to issues like these and we have no interest in hosting the battleground or becoming an arbiter.

 

Second, this web site is about geocaching and we do not wish to see it converted to a platform for issues, whether good, bad or otherwise.

 

There are plenty of ways to donate to charity and plenty of ways to help out. We encourage you to find them and participate to the extent you believe it is right. We certainly do.

Trust me geocide would not be an option for me. :D

 

 

 

 

I'd just hunt down a reviewer... like Keystone, and take my pound of flesh that way. :):):D:)

 

Seriously though, thanks for the advice.

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My best advice to make a cache idea like this one work would be to focus on the person, not the illness. If you're motivated to hide an awareness cache for disease X, you probably have been affected personally, by a person close to you either surviving the fight against the disease, or succumbing to it. Make the cache a tribute to that person. The cache page could talk about how Aunt Susan is a wonderful, caring person of strength, and the cache is placed at one of her favorite spots to go and meditate in a natural setting. In that context, it ought to be fine to mention that the person being honored by the cache is/was afflicted with disease X. This is informational, and doesn't dominate the cache page to the point where it crosses the line into promoting an agenda. The overall focus is on Aunt Susan and why her favorite park is a cool place to visit. :D

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My best advice to make a cache idea like this one work would be to focus on the person, not the illness. If you're motivated to hide an awareness cache for disease X, you probably have been affected personally, by a person close to you either surviving the fight against the disease, or succumbing to it. Make the cache a tribute to that person. The cache page could talk about how Aunt Susan is a wonderful, caring person of strength, and the cache is placed at one of her favorite spots to go and meditate in a natural setting. In that context, it ought to be fine to mention that the person being honored by the cache is/was afflicted with disease X. This is informational, and doesn't dominate the cache page to the point where it crosses the line into promoting an agenda. The overall focus is on Aunt Susan and why her favorite park is a cool place to visit. :D

 

Now that's a great Reviewer answer! It helps understand the issue and suggests ways to fix it, as opposed to simply 'Not Allowed'.

 

Thanks!

Ed

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Thank you for the kind words. I know that the same advice was given to the person I described in my earlier post about a different cache. But at that point he had already written up his cache page and hidden a cache full of nothing but disease-awareness trade items, and there was no listening to suggestions. That is a sad thing. If you ask early, like Totem Clan did, then hopefully there is less cause for disappointment.

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Out of curiosity, supposing I (as a geocacher) was on an awareness crusade for disease X, and decided that my signature items would be colored ribbons, informational pamphlets, etc., which I left at caches I visited:

 

Is that frowned upon?

Edited by GreyingJay
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My best advice to make a cache idea like this one work would be to focus on the person, not the illness. If you're motivated to hide an awareness cache for disease X, you probably have been affected personally, by a person close to you either surviving the fight against the disease, or succumbing to it. Make the cache a tribute to that person. The cache page could talk about how Aunt Susan is a wonderful, caring person of strength, and the cache is placed at one of her favorite spots to go and meditate in a natural setting. In that context, it ought to be fine to mention that the person being honored by the cache is/was afflicted with disease X. This is informational, and doesn't dominate the cache page to the point where it crosses the line into promoting an agenda. The overall focus is on Aunt Susan and why her favorite park is a cool place to visit. :D

Wow. I *just* listed a cache exactly like this a couple of weeks ago. At first, it heavily promoted the illness with a tribute also. I asked for the illness part to be toned way down and to focus on the tribute. The cache was very well done and it was a pleasure to list it.

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Out of curiosity, supposing I (as a geocacher) was on an awareness crusade for disease X, and decided that my signature items would be colored ribbons, informational pamphlets, etc., which I left at caches I visited:

 

Is that frowned upon?

I think that would be fine.

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A crusade is just another word for an agenda. The placement of materials in other caches means cachers don't have a choice about whether they or their childrena are exposed to the material. Some people regard caching as a place apart from real life to where they can escape and may not wish some of the realities of life to intrude. So yes, some people will object to this. A cache dedicated to a person allows cachers to choose to visit, knowing what to expect when they get there, and is a much better way to get the message across.

 

{url=http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=1c302773-6512-468b-84da-56cf5d9a9527&log=}see here{/url}

 

edited for bad html (probably still bad) can somebody please remind me how to do this

Edited by McKryton
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My best advice to make a cache idea like this one work would be to focus on the person, not the illness. If you're motivated to hide an awareness cache for disease X, you probably have been affected personally, by a person close to you either surviving the fight against the disease, or succumbing to it. Make the cache a tribute to that person. The cache page could talk about how Aunt Susan is a wonderful, caring person of strength, and the cache is placed at one of her favorite spots to go and meditate in a natural setting. In that context, it ought to be fine to mention that the person being honored by the cache is/was afflicted with disease X. This is informational, and doesn't dominate the cache page to the point where it crosses the line into promoting an agenda. The overall focus is on Aunt Susan and why her favorite park is a cool place to visit. :D

I remember first reading about Aunt Susan a couple years ago. She sounds like a woman I'd have love to meet.

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I think you got your answer regarding guidelines. Personally, I think your choice of a title for such a sensitive subject is poor - having lost several special women in my family to the disease and having had a few scares myself. I am by no means a prude, just bet you could come up with something a little more appropriate. A cache in memory of someone would be nice if you have had this affect your life or someone you love. Just my opinion, good luck.

Edited by lonesumdove
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I think you got your answer regarding guidelines. Personally, I think your choice of a title for such a sensitive subject is poor - having lost several special women in my family to the disease and having had a few scares myself. I am by no means a prude, just bet you could come up with something a little more appropriate. A cache in memory of someone would be nice if you have had this affect your life or someone you love. Just my opinion, good luck.

It came from a Breast Cancer Research Foundation T-shirt.

 

Shirt Link.

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I think the name could be something more powerful. The title you suggested might be offensive or distasteful to some people and having folks comment or argue about the name would just water down your message.

 

Instead of being provocative, why not create a name that is powerful and evocative?

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I think the name could be something more powerful. The title you suggested might be offensive or distasteful to some people and having folks comment or argue about the name would just water down your message.

 

Instead of being provocative, why not create a name that is powerful and evocative?

 

What, you don't think this link http://www.savethetatas.com/ta-tascares.htm is powerful and evocative? :ph34r:

 

If you are going to address young people you need to address them on their terms.

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I think you got your answer regarding guidelines. Personally, I think your choice of a title for such a sensitive subject is poor - having lost several special women in my family to the disease and having had a few scares myself. I am by no means a prude, just bet you could come up with something a little more appropriate. A cache in memory of someone would be nice if you have had this affect your life or someone you love. Just my opinion, good luck.

 

Yes. The language policeman in me is cringing. Good taste should come in here, somewhere. I received a print-out at work that Mrs. R is participating in a 'Walk For Breast Cancer', sponsored by a large corporation. I would have thought that breast cancer was something that 100% of the population opposed. Why would anyone walk for it?

I can understand TPTB not wanting to have geocaching associated with any agendum. Even one that 100% of the population agree with. Someone sponsoring an agendum supported by 98% comes next. Then 50%. The line does need to be drawn.

That being said, excellent examples have been given: A memorial cache, for one. I see lots of bracelets in caches. Or a travel bug like: FURBY - has a message!. Oops, that ended up in someone's trunk for over a year... :ph34r:

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This is becoming confusing or I'm just thick. What is the difference now between an agenda cache and an educational cache? Are all education-themed caches considered an agenda cache? Two specific examples that I've been bopping around in my head for some time. I wanted to do an alligator-themed multi-cache. The cache page would be all about Alligator mississippiensis . Would this be somehow considered an agenda cache promoting the saving of alligators or something? If there was a themed one for the Atwater Prairie chicken? Especially since it's endangered, this might be considered an agenda? I just thought they would be interesting.

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This is becoming confusing or I'm just thick. What is the difference now between an agenda cache and an educational cache? Are all education-themed caches considered an agenda cache? Two specific examples that I've been bopping around in my head for some time. I wanted to do an alligator-themed multi-cache. The cache page would be all about Alligator mississippiensis . Would this be somehow considered an agenda cache promoting the saving of alligators or something? If there was a themed one for the Atwater Prairie chicken? Especially since it's endangered, this might be considered an agenda? I just thought they would be interesting.

I agree with you Jimmy, I'm sure it's a hard call for GC. They are doing what they believe is best for the community in the long run while putting personal feelings aside.

 

I have a grandaughter with cancer (in remission now.) and I ran a yearly contest here to raise money for make a wish foundation for 2 years running and raised a lot of money. When I asked to do a 3rd I was denied. I completely understood. I'm sure it was a hard call for GC. They have taken a stance not to allow their site to promote any specific agenda as to politics, or charities. It's a good stance. There are many ways outside of this sport/game/hobby to support worthy causes.

 

You can bring information to people through caches, and might reach a 100 or so people in a year. You can go door to door and accomplish the same thing in a day. In other words, this isn't the best place to promote awareness to a cause even if it were allowed.

 

I applaud people that undertake to job to raise awareness to a cause. However this really is a poor venue even if allowed.

 

El Diablo

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Open the rules for one group and you have to open it up for all. As harsh it sounds it is a reality. Once the rules are breached for a single group you will open yourself up to every other group that may want the same. These groups may be very offensive to a great majority of the membership.

 

So no matter how harsh the rules seem in this case they are justified and only trying to limit exposure of the rest of us to more offensive ideals.

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Not to add to the fray, but I had a similar question. I posted a question about a Peace Corps themed cache series. Mtn-man, a moderator, stated that it would be against these same rules. While understanding this, I am also confused. The basic gist of my idea was to connect with other Returned Peace Corps Volunteers (RPCVs) (by the way, so far, I've met none who also are cachers :ph34r: ) who would then place caches titled "Peace Corps: country of service X" and then tell a little bit about their experiences while living abroad. Required in the regular sized cache would be a few pictures... then regular trade items. Hopefully, the caches would be placed in more interesting locations that provide a bit of an education, but the education could be anything from a neat statue, to a cool nature trail or whatever. This sharing of experiences is part of the third goal of Peace Corps. As PC is not a political or religious group, we don't promote anything ... other than the ability to tell stories ad naseum of places most people have never heard of. The caches that would be placed in this series would be limited only to being placed only by returned volunteers.

 

There's no awareness of a cause, no promoting of Peace Corps other than stating that we were a volunteer and here's a little bit of our story. It would be a way to honor volunteers (by saying, hey, this is me!) in a way that is seldom done anywhere in the country and would help connect the few RPCVs in GC. So, other than the fact that Peace Corps is a volunteer organization, I am confussed as to how this is any different than the many cemetary cache series that tell stories about various famous people burried there or the now being formed 42 Presidents Through History cache series.

 

While I would love for my idea to become a reality, I do admit the lack of other volunteers is rather limiting... ;) But still, is there a rule break for what I've described? And, anyone know of any RPCVs (or current volunteers) who also are cachers?

Edited by Wile E. Dragonfly
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