New SiRF "entry level" receivers on the way?

[Alphawolf]

I heard "rumors" that Garmin is showing some new "entry level" SiRF receivers at the Outdoor Retailers Show going on in Salt Lake City this week. Has anyone else heard anything along these lines? I sooooo bad want to get a SiRF version of my Foretrex 101! That would be an awesome backpacking GPS receiver!

[OttoLund]

I've heard rumors earlier this year, about eTrex series with SiRF.

Edited August 13, 2006 by OttoLund

[+Sputnik 57]

Interesting if true. A Legend Cx with SiRF would make the 60Cx obsolete, IMHO.

[OttoLund]

I don't think the 60 x-models will be obsolete if eTrex models are equipped with SiRF. The 60 x-models have bigger display and possibility to connect an external antenna.

 

Said in another way, Garmin can't let the popular eTrex models have old technology in the future, IMHO.

Edited August 13, 2006 by OttoLund

[jay11]

I don't think the 60 x-models will be obsolete if eTrex models are equipped with SiRF. The 60 x-models have bigger display and possibility to connect an external antenna.

 

And RS-232 I/O.

[+jotne]

Hope they uses the new SiRF star III LT ship, that uses 50% less power compare to SiRF star III used in 60CSx and other Garmin units.

[+geognerd]

I'm not a fan of the 60/76 because of the size, and in the case of the 60, I don't like the antenna that sticks out. A Legend Cx or Venture Cx with SiRF processing would woo me away from Magellan. Garmin's been steadily chipping away at the advantages of the eXplorists. I like the size of the eXplorist, its expandable memory, and most importantly the performance of the GPS receiver. The Venture Cx is a good deal, having a color screen, expandable memory, and autorouting capability for like $160 after rebate right now. But the thing about it that kills the deal for me is that it is inferior to the eXplorist in terms of reception.

 

If the color eTrexes ever get a SiRF receiver, there would be little reason for me to stick with Magellan unless they manage to come up with something better or cheaper. I'm pretty curious about what kind of handhelds to expect from Magellan - there was an unsubstantiated rumor here not long ago that Magellan was getting out of handhelds. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there have been any new handhelds from Magellan this year. The eX210 came out last fall. The XL may have come out early this year, but I thought it was released late last year.

[+allory]

Not that its entirely new, but Magellan did announce the eXplorist 500 LE last week in Salt Lake.

[Rhialto]

Hope they uses the new SiRF star III LT ship, that uses 50% less power compare to SiRF star III used in 60CSx and other Garmin units.

I hope so and hope they will gradually put the LT everywhere...

[+own6volvos]

Also remember that eTrex's have used patch antennas while the larger 60/72's use quadhelix antennas which have better reception.

 

The 60/72 series also have larger screens, faster processors for quicker map redraws, and overall are built much nicer than any of the eTrek units. You don't see any rubber glued in place on the 60/72, but instead see screwed together halves with rubber gaskets.

[+BigLarry]

Also remember that eTrex's have used patch antennas while the larger 60/72's use quadhelix antennas which have better reception.

 

The 60/72 series also have larger screens, faster processors for quicker map redraws, and overall are built much nicer than any of the eTrek units. You don't see any rubber glued in place on the 60/72, but instead see screwed together halves with rubber gaskets.

 

The eTrex series is much more rugged for my mountain biking. The rubber glued on the side is for additional protection. My eTrex has done fine on my bars through all sorts of crashes for 3 years. My frame was replaced twice in that time, along with a lot of bike rebuilds.

 

My friend had a 60CSx on his bike handlebars for 2 months before it completely destroyed with the antennae sticking out like it does. First end-over the front, the antennae got nicked. On the next one it broke off. He returned it and got the Vista Cx. It's MUCH more rugged and doesn't get power off from battery bounce like the 60CSx.

 

Because of these issues, I carry TWO of the Garmin GPSr, my old B&W Vista on the bars for navigation, and the new 60CSx, with it's better reception for tracks, in the camelbak pack for safety. But then, on my second ride on the third day of having the 60CSx, I tumbled down a steep hill and snapped off two of the control buttons - while it was in a soft towell in the pack! My bike had $800 of damage, but the Vista was again untouched.

 

I REALLY wish they'd come out with a better receiver for the rugged eTrex line.

[+apersson850]

To me, it seems a straight-jacket would be a better piece of equipment for such a biker...

[+Fhantazm]

Ummm. Negaitve. This would be what some would call "wishful thinking" for those that cannot afford a $500 GPSr. I have both an eTrex Venture Cx and a 60csx and BOTH are built VERY well. If "your friends" antenna gets ate up from trees/crashes and such, stop crashing. Thats like complaining that your car antenna gets bent when you run it through a carwash. Do you call your car antenna less durable because of this? Doubtful. You MAY wanna keep from making such silly statements about a product that you do not own. That being said, Im not trying to flame you, but just making a friendly suggestion.

 

 

 

The eTrex series is much more rugged for my mountain biking. The rubber glued on the side is for additional protection. My eTrex has done fine on my bars through all sorts of crashes for 3 years. My frame was replaced twice in that time, along with a lot of bike rebuilds.

 

My friend had a 60CSx on his bike handlebars for 2 months before it completely destroyed with the antennae sticking out like it does. First end-over the front, the antennae got nicked. On the next one it broke off. He returned it and got the Vista Cx. It's MUCH more rugged and doesn't get power off from battery bounce like the 60CSx.

 

Because of these issues, I carry TWO of the Garmin GPSr, my old B&W Vista on the bars for navigation, and the new 60CSx, with it's better reception for tracks, in the camelbak pack for safety. But then, on my second ride on the third day of having the 60CSx, I tumbled down a steep hill and snapped off two of the control buttons - while it was in a soft towell in the pack! My bike had $800 of damage, but the Vista was again untouched.

 

I REALLY wish they'd come out with a better receiver for the rugged eTrex line.

Edited August 15, 2006 by Fhantazm

[+BigLarry]

Ummm. Negaitve. This would be what some would call "wishful thinking" for those that cannot afford a $500 GPSr. I have both an eTrex Venture Cx and a 60csx and BOTH are built VERY well. If "your friends" antenna gets ate up from trees/crashes and such, stop crashing. Thats like complaining that your car antenna gets bent when you run it through a carwash. Do you call your car antenna less durable because of this? Doubtful. You MAY wanna keep from making such silly statements about a product that you do not own. That being said, Im not trying to flame you, but just making a friendly suggestion.

 

 

 

The eTrex series is much more rugged for my mountain biking. The rubber glued on the side is for additional protection. My eTrex has done fine on my bars through all sorts of crashes for 3 years. My frame was replaced twice in that time, along with a lot of bike rebuilds.

 

My friend had a 60CSx on his bike handlebars for 2 months before it completely destroyed with the antennae sticking out like it does. First end-over the front, the antennae got nicked. On the next one it broke off. He returned it and got the Vista Cx. It's MUCH more rugged and doesn't get power off from battery bounce like the 60CSx.

 

Because of these issues, I carry TWO of the Garmin GPSr, my old B&W Vista on the bars for navigation, and the new 60CSx, with it's better reception for tracks, in the camelbak pack for safety. But then, on my second ride on the third day of having the 60CSx, I tumbled down a steep hill and snapped off two of the control buttons - while it was in a soft towell in the pack! My bike had $800 of damage, but the Vista was again untouched.

 

I REALLY wish they'd come out with a better receiver for the rugged eTrex line.

 

If you'd read my post, you may have seen I indeed own BOTH an eTrex Vista AND a GPSMap60CSx, and I use BOTH at the same time in my riding: my Vista on the handlebars and the 60CSx wrapped up in soft towels in the back pack to protect it better. My friend has also owned BOTH the 60CS AND the eTrex VistaCx, and has used them both on the handlebars at different times. So we are NOT "making such silly statements about a product that we do not own". I accurately reported our actual experience in the last three months on BOTH units THAT WE BOTH OWN.

 

We have BOTH found that the 60CSx, although built strong and built well, is substantially less rugged than the seemingly bulletproof Vista, and the 60CSx broke in short order under our harsh biking application. The 60CSx also had much more problems with power off from battery bounce and other issues I didn't report in the post before. Also note the 60CSx is one of the few GPSr that Garmin doesn't rate at 6G dynamics like the others. My friend broke his antennae TWICE in two months, as it sticks out and breaks easily when dropped or tossed as happens more frequently and perhaps more harshly for us bikers than normal people walking around. But it wasn't a freak accident.

 

By comparison, the Vista has lasted 3 years for me exposed on the handlebars, and months now for my friend in the same situation with it flying off the bars perhaps 100 times (no exageration unfortunately). The Vista also survived just fine falling off the top of my car and bouncing down the road (twice stupidly), which is more likely to happen to geocachers. The Vista also survived when I dropped it 10 feet face down on to a rock, with only a little nick on the glass face. Mountain biking is a rough application for GPSr's, but a good test bed for the worst ruggedness requirements. The Vista indeed held up to the test.

 

If you're in a car or walking around geocaching, it's a different situation. I agree, our use of the GPS is very harsh, and beyond the normal limits of geocaching use, for which either GPSr unit should be very adequate. But as for ruggedness, my Vista held up to biking for 3 years in the toughest situations, yet the 60CSx are failing in a couple weeks (twice for my friend) or days (my experience) even though at the very same time the Vista was unharmed on the bars and the 60CSx was "protected" in my pack. This is our real experience being reported.

 

Also, our desire for an eTrex line with SiRF is solely for the Vista ruggedness with good reception of the SiRF. I own several GPSr, including the 60CSx too. So affordability has nothing to do with it. Both of us have owned or still own the 60CSx.

 

And finally, the 60CSx is a great GPSr that will serve most all geocacher's well. I indeed love the great capabilty of the 60CSx, especially it's reception in the thick foilage of CA. That's why I continue to carry it as a second GPSr unit, protected as best I can. But if I had an eTrex VistaCx with the SiRF receiver, I'd only need to carry one GPSr. As then the VistaCx would be much like a smaller rugged version of the 60CSx.

[+own6volvos]

The eTrex series is much more rugged for my mountain biking. The rubber glued on the side is for additional protection. My eTrex has done fine on my bars through all sorts of crashes for 3 years. My frame was replaced twice in that time, along with a lot of bike rebuilds.

 

The rubber glued on the side is part of the material that it uses to seal out water. Its halves are connected right under that by little plastic tabs.

 

Now I have owned a eTrex Lengex since 2004, and had the 60cx since the beginning of last week, and the 60 just seems much nicer and more rugged on each thing compared to the eTrex. Here is a little list of things that are built better on the 60/76 over the eTrex line.

 

1. That battery cover metal post "T" shaft. It holds into the GPSr by turning 90 degrees and holding against the inside cover. On the 60/76 it is braced by a metal tab inside for repeated battery use, and long term durability. On the eTrex, it only has the units plastic back holding it on the inside. Not a strong, not rated for as much holding force.

 

2. Every port and section is gasketed. All ports have rubber caps, and on the inside they are also sealed by an oring or epoxy. The half is gasketed, and held together with screws to allow easy servicing if required, and keep water out longer (year wise, not speaking of waterproof certification). The eTrex has plastic clips holding it together, and a rubber grip glued in place to seal the seams and also provide a gripping surface. Over time the grip can also become loose and wiggle around as the glue becomes old. The 60/76 uses chemically bonded neoprene that is molded as one piece with the plastic for its lower grip, no glue to wear out over time or lose hold.

 

3. 60/76 provide a very durable connector for external power and serial hookups. Again, designed for durabilty and longevity from multiple connect/disconnect cycles.

 

4. 60/76 has a reinforced metal threaed insert to screw a mounting post into for belt clips and other accesories. eTrex models rely on the battery cover (no metal backing on that mentioned above).

 

Saying the 60 is less durable because the antenna keeps snaping off from crashes is pretty foolish. What if every fall was onto a rock that hit the screen directly? Would the 60 be to blame for shotty manufacturing if it couldn't hold up to a boulder at high speed?

[+BigLarry]

Saying the 60 is less durable because the antenna keeps snaping off from crashes is pretty foolish. What if every fall was onto a rock that hit the screen directly? Would the 60 be to blame for shotty manufacturing if it couldn't hold up to a boulder at high speed?

 

I posted why I wanted an eTrex with a better receiver for my use. Not why the Vista is the perfect unit for everyone. Obviously, Garmin sells a lot of very different units to a lot of people for their purpose, each customized to their need, and a poor fit outside that application. Those not doing All Mountain biking won't have my issues. I never implied they would.

 

Actually, it wasn't just the antenna on my friend's 60CSx that cracked. Two buttons also cracked off my 60CSx while it was wrapped in my backpack. My friend's 60CSx also has horrible battery bounce with power off from the intense vibrations on the handlebars. He had to stop and turn it back on every few minutes. Between that and the cracked antennae is why I decided to carry mine wrapped softly in the back pack rather than on the bars where I can use it, like I do with my Vista.

 

You mention battery cover and post mounts being more rugged. That may be true, but that wasn't an issue in my 3 years with the Vista. It held tight on the handlebars with many G forces of going over rock gardens and drops. The only time it came off the bars (at the bar clip, not the internal posts you mention) was when my knee smashed into the Vista as I also was going over the bars. In spite of your engineering detail, my friend found the 60CSx has much worse battery bounce causing power off than the Vista from handlebar vibration. And in spite of the stronger posts, the 60CSx has fell off the mount just as easily or more than my Vista, which is why the antenae broke, not from smashing into a tree. The battery cover and tie-in mounts were never an issue in either case. They're strong on both the Vista and the 60CSx. If anyone would see a strength problem there, I think I would have already.

 

You also mention the waterproofing not as good on the Vista. The rubber sides on my Vista did crack, loosen, and wear off after a couple years of hard use. I got the whole unit refurbished about a year ago, along with removal of the nick on the screen. Still working great since. I don't use it for boating and worry about that water proof standard. But I use the Vista frequently in the rain and riding through streams. Never had an issue with water. Don't know why, but it's true.

 

Actually, rather than continue this argument, I'd like to hear more about getting a nice SiRF receiver in an eTrex sort of GPSr for my use, the original intent of this thread.

 

I'll leave you with a picture of my friend Dan on his bike last month, with the new Vista on the bars (barely visible past the hand). For more pictures and videos of our rides, see this web site of another friend.

[+Fhantazm]

My apologies. You are correct, I misread your post about you actually owning the 60csx. But most people who hate on the 60csx are ones that do not actually own it. What I said, otherwise still stands though. Just becuase you have had better luck not tearing up an etrex does not mean its anymore rugged than another model. I have an old 1999 Garmin that has NO rubber on it, thats been beat through hell and back and still works like a champ.

 

Ummm. Negaitve. This would be what some would call "wishful thinking" for those that cannot afford a $500 GPSr. I have both an eTrex Venture Cx and a 60csx and BOTH are built VERY well. If "your friends" antenna gets ate up from trees/crashes and such, stop crashing. Thats like complaining that your car antenna gets bent when you run it through a carwash. Do you call your car antenna less durable because of this? Doubtful. You MAY wanna keep from making such silly statements about a product that you do not own. That being said, Im not trying to flame you, but just making a friendly suggestion.

 

 

 

The eTrex series is much more rugged for my mountain biking. The rubber glued on the side is for additional protection. My eTrex has done fine on my bars through all sorts of crashes for 3 years. My frame was replaced twice in that time, along with a lot of bike rebuilds.

 

My friend had a 60CSx on his bike handlebars for 2 months before it completely destroyed with the antennae sticking out like it does. First end-over the front, the antennae got nicked. On the next one it broke off. He returned it and got the Vista Cx. It's MUCH more rugged and doesn't get power off from battery bounce like the 60CSx.

 

Because of these issues, I carry TWO of the Garmin GPSr, my old B&W Vista on the bars for navigation, and the new 60CSx, with it's better reception for tracks, in the camelbak pack for safety. But then, on my second ride on the third day of having the 60CSx, I tumbled down a steep hill and snapped off two of the control buttons - while it was in a soft towell in the pack! My bike had $800 of damage, but the Vista was again untouched.

 

I REALLY wish they'd come out with a better receiver for the rugged eTrex line.

 

If you'd read my post, you may have seen I indeed own BOTH an eTrex Vista AND a GPSMap60CSx, and I use BOTH at the same time in my riding: my Vista on the handlebars and the 60CSx wrapped up in soft towels in the back pack to protect it better. My friend has also owned BOTH the 60CS AND the eTrex VistaCx, and has used them both on the handlebars at different times. So we are NOT "making such silly statements about a product that we do not own". I accurately reported our actual experience in the last three months on BOTH units THAT WE BOTH OWN.

 

We have BOTH found that the 60CSx, although built strong and built well, is substantially less rugged than the seemingly bulletproof Vista, and the 60CSx broke in short order under our harsh biking application. The 60CSx also had much more problems with power off from battery bounce and other issues I didn't report in the post before. Also note the 60CSx is one of the few GPSr that Garmin doesn't rate at 6G dynamics like the others. My friend broke his antennae TWICE in two months, as it sticks out and breaks easily when dropped or tossed as happens more frequently and perhaps more harshly for us bikers than normal people walking around. But it wasn't a freak accident.

 

By comparison, the Vista has lasted 3 years for me exposed on the handlebars, and months now for my friend in the same situation with it flying off the bars perhaps 100 times (no exageration unfortunately). The Vista also survived just fine falling off the top of my car and bouncing down the road (twice stupidly), which is more likely to happen to geocachers. The Vista also survived when I dropped it 10 feet face down on to a rock, with only a little nick on the glass face. Mountain biking is a rough application for GPSr's, but a good test bed for the worst ruggedness requirements. The Vista indeed held up to the test.

 

If you're in a car or walking around geocaching, it's a different situation. I agree, our use of the GPS is very harsh, and beyond the normal limits of geocaching use, for which either GPSr unit should be very adequate. But as for ruggedness, my Vista held up to biking for 3 years in the toughest situations, yet the 60CSx are failing in a couple weeks (twice for my friend) or days (my experience) even though at the very same time the Vista was unharmed on the bars and the 60CSx was "protected" in my pack. This is our real experience being reported.

 

Also, our desire for an eTrex line with SiRF is solely for the Vista ruggedness with good reception of the SiRF. I own several GPSr, including the 60CSx too. So affordability has nothing to do with it. Both of us have owned or still own the 60CSx.

 

And finally, the 60CSx is a great GPSr that will serve most all geocacher's well. I indeed love the great capabilty of the 60CSx, especially it's reception in the thick foilage of CA. That's why I continue to carry it as a second GPSr unit, protected as best I can. But if I had an eTrex VistaCx with the SiRF receiver, I'd only need to carry one GPSr. As then the VistaCx would be much like a smaller rugged version of the 60CSx.

[+Happy Humphrey]

So...does anyone have any rumours or news about a new Garmin Foretrex with SiRF III?

 

That's all I'm waiting for, as I'm not interested in heavyweight / large size GPS units. I have a Foretrex 201 at the moment which is excellent for geocaching and hiking, except for the tree cover / urban canyon problem. I also have a blutooth GPSr with SiRF III, and this unit demonstrates that the SiRF III chipset solves the latter problem.

 

Now I need to get the two together: a wristwatch GPSr with SiRF III - the perfect geocaching / hiking unit! Rely on my oreder, Mr. Garmin...

[WR8Y]

So...does anyone have any rumours or news about a new Garmin Foretrex with SiRF III?

 

FOrget that! Do you really live on the Isle of Man???

[+budd-rdc]

So...does anyone have any rumours or news about a new Garmin Foretrex with SiRF III?

 

That's all I'm waiting for, as I'm not interested in heavyweight / large size GPS units. I have a Foretrex 201 at the moment which is excellent for geocaching and hiking, except for the tree cover / urban canyon problem. I also have a blutooth GPSr with SiRF III, and this unit demonstrates that the SiRF III chipset solves the latter problem.

 

Now I need to get the two together: a wristwatch GPSr with SiRF III - the perfect geocaching / hiking unit! Rely on my oreder, Mr. Garmin...

Rumor is that the new Forerunner/Foretrex series in color boxes use SiRF Star III, and priced accordingly ($300-$400). The rumor isn't a stretch, because many smaller BlueTooth and PDA GPSr's also use SiRF Star III.

 

I haven't bought one, nor have I played with one, so I'm just passing along a rumor I heard from a dealer.

[robertlipe]

Rumor is that the new Forerunner/Foretrex series in color boxes use SiRF Star III, and priced accordingly ($300-$400). The rumor isn't a stretch, because many smaller BlueTooth and PDA GPSr's also use SiRF Star III

I don't know about color boxes, but my super secret Garmin model spy decoder ring tells me that fitness units whose model number ends in a 5 use Sirf III. (Edge|Forerunner)(205|305)

 

These units are very good in their intended uses, but I'm not sure I'd consider them fantasy geocaching units.

[+Searching_ut]

 

Now I need to get the two together: a wristwatch GPSr with SiRF III - the perfect geocaching / hiking unit! Rely on my oreder, Mr. Garmin...

 

The Forerunner 205 and 305's have the sirf III chip, and look and wear like a big wristwatch. I got a couple 305's for the wife and I as replacements to the 201's we were using for running. They only hold 100 waypoints, but do have a compass screen and crude map page. They work okay for geocaching, but I wouldn't recommend them if that would be your primary use. The compass update is slow and they can be a little awkward to do any precision navigation with. Great unit for what it was intended for though, especially when used with programs like Sportraks

 

As for what garmin has in the pipeline, hopefully upgrades to all the units. I like a good assortment for different purposes, and much prefer the littler units over the big monsters like the 60 and 72 series.

[+Happy Humphrey]

FOrget that! Do you really live on the Isle of Man???

Sure do!

 

The Forerunner 205 and 305's have the sirf III chip, and look and wear like a big wristwatch. I got a couple 305's for the wife and I as replacements to the 201's we were using for running. They only hold 100 waypoints, but do have a compass screen and crude map page. They work okay for geocaching, but I wouldn't recommend them if that would be your primary use. The compass update is slow and they can be a little awkward to do any precision navigation with. Great unit for what it was intended for though, especially when used with programs like Sportraks

 

As for what garmin has in the pipeline, hopefully upgrades to all the units. I like a good assortment for different purposes, and much prefer the littler units over the big monsters like the 60 and 72 series.

100 waypoints is no good, and I don't need a compass or maps (I use a PDA for mapping: in conjunction with the Bluetooth GPS and 1:25000 maps). But for geocaching and hiking, a wrist-mounted GPSr is ideal. The current Foretrex couldn't be better (except for the old chipset). It sounds like I'll have to wait a while for an upgrade!

 

HH

[+egami]

The eTrex series is much more rugged for my mountain biking. The rubber glued on the side is for additional protection. My eTrex has done fine on my bars through all sorts of crashes for 3 years. My frame was replaced twice in that time, along with a lot of bike rebuilds...

 

Hey, don't worry...I thought it was geocrashing for the longest time too.

[GeoBobC]

OK - what is the cheapest (least expensive) SiRF GPS that is CURRENTLY available?

[+egami]

I was trying to figure out if there was a listing of SiRF powered GPSr's as well....let me know if you find one.

 

This thread may have some useful info. though...it did for me since I lean toward Garmin: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=141513