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I do not know the whole story and it will not be my business to know the whole story, and I might be wrong, but I think one reason this issue is such a hot topic at the moment is because of who it was. People come and go all the the time on forums and get banned for different reasons. Team 360 was one of those you always saw post for all over the forums, so yeah when a big name gets banned it is going to raise some eyebrows.

 

Once again I do not know what happened but you can only test the guidelines so many times before you have to step up and accept what your actions bring you.

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Hard to define in any definitive way - but most of us know it when we see it.

 

Having said that - TPTB and moderators probably know it when they see it without any written directions. Without seeing the referenced materials - sounds like it should have been locked. IMHO.

ANd just how can you draw that conclusion without even having SEEN the referenced materials?

You asked for an opinion and received it. Don't get uppity just because it isn't what you expected.

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I get tired of people that complain about this site because they don't agree with how it's run. If you can make a better site...knock yourself out. You won't be the first to try or probably the last. This site has survived and is the top site for caching because of management, dedication, hard work, and the ability to operate for the majority rather than the minority.

 

Keep looking for the Great Pumpkin, Linus.

 

It wouldn't happen to be primarily because of the unstoppable force that corralling all of the data entitles you to, would it?

 

The moderation in this forum and decisions on who remains a member as a result of their actions in this forum is NOT a part of what makes this site the predominant market share of geocaching listing services.

 

You always trod out that diatribe of "go somewhere else or make your own" and you always ignore the fact that this is not a viable option/solution to the problem. The closest anyone has come to doing this is navicaching and terracaching (and this one was made after being *thrown* out here) and neither have anywhere near the concentration of caches (except in very minor pockets where an entire local caching community finally took offense to an action by Jeremy et al here and relocated en masse). Even in those areas, residual caches and new development has kept their GC.com concentrations up...and as fizzymagic has always shown, new caching is still by far the largest (and growing) percentage of caching. As long as the growth continues, they only need to make new people happy (and new people playing with a new toy hobby will frequently already be biased towards being entertained by the new-ness).

 

What all this means to the subject at hand is that the moderators aren't going to change anything about how well this site swallows down the market share hand over fist. Your strawman argument needs a brain, scarecrow. The idea that we should suck it up or move elsewhere because the decisions they make in all aspects of this site are what make it the best site are just balderdash. The moderators could delete every third post for fun and at most the forums would dry up, but new cachers would just learn to stay out of the forums...and yet the caching would continue because this is where new people sign up to geocache. Most of those people don't use the forums. This is where all (okay, you got me... 97.3% of all) the listings are.

 

"Don't you know who I am? I'm the Juggernaut, babe!" -- Groundspeak

 

(This quote has been edited for time and content and formatted to fit on your forum)

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I'd love for the mods to weigh in on this issue at any time. I would like to thank you for not locking this thread and allowing this discussion to proceed as it has. Feel free to add any insights you'd like to.

 

I have asked the moderators not to post to this topic. This issue is between Team360 and Groundspeak and will not be addressed in a public forum. I can assure you, however, that we are doing what we believe to be in the best interests of the geocaching community, as we always do.

Jeremy--

 

I was not looking for you to comment on the specifics of the issues with Team 360. What I would like to hear is some epxlanation as to why similar posts are not treated the same, specifically, my image, which I admit was in bad taste and should have been removed, was removed, but a text post dealing with the same matter, and linking to equally offensive material from another site, was NOT censored?

 

Odds are good, a post or thread gets canned when somebody reports it. Somebody reported your pic, nobody reported the text.

 

You wanna change things? Start reporting every offensive post or thread you come across. The mods will have to deal with it.

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I get tired of people that complain about this site because they don't agree with how it's run. If you can make a better site...knock yourself out. You won't be the first to try or probably the last. This site has survived and is the top site for caching because of management, dedication, hard work, and the ability to operate for the majority rather than the minority.

 

Keep looking for the Great Pumpkin, Linus.

 

It wouldn't happen to be primarily because of the unstoppable force that corralling all of the data entitles you to, would it?

 

The moderation in this forum and decisions on who remains a member as a result of their actions in this forum is NOT a part of what makes this site the predominant market share of geocaching listing services.

 

You always trod out that diatribe of "go somewhere else or make your own" and you always ignore the fact that this is not a viable option/solution to the problem. The closest anyone has come to doing this is navicaching and terracaching (and this one was made after being *thrown* out here) and neither have anywhere near the concentration of caches (except in very minor pockets where an entire local caching community finally took offense to an action by Jeremy et al here and relocated en masse). Even in those areas, residual caches and new development has kept their GC.com concentrations up...and as fizzymagic has always shown, new caching is still by far the largest (and growing) percentage of caching. As long as the growth continues, they only need to make new people happy (and new people playing with a new toy hobby will frequently already be biased towards being entertained by the new-ness).

 

What all this means to the subject at hand is that the moderators aren't going to change anything about how well this site swallows down the market share hand over fist. Your strawman argument needs a brain, scarecrow. The idea that we should suck it up or move elsewhere because the decisions they make in all aspects of this site are what make it the best site are just balderdash. The moderators could delete every third post for fun and at most the forums would dry up, but new cachers would just learn to stay out of the forums...and yet the caching would continue because this is where new people sign up to geocache. Most of those people don't use the forums. This is where all (okay, you got me... 97.3% of all) the listings are.

 

"Don't you know who I am? I'm the Juggernaut, babe!" -- Groundspeak

 

(This quote has been edited for time and content and formatted to fit on your forum)

 

It may be true that creating a new geocaching site from scratch is not feasible, but there are many forums for discussing geocaching besides this one. Many regional organization have their own boards already. I actually got to see the cause of the present controversy when Team360 posted in one of them after his original post was locked and removed from this forum. Grounspeak and their moderators are free to moderate and censor when they think it neccessary. There are plenty of alternatives on the Internet for expressing opinions that aren't allowed here.

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"Don't you know who I am? I'm the Juggernaut, babe!" -- Groundspeak

 

Juggernaught implies that something has built momentum and is almost impossible to stop. Groundspeak's lead and momentum can and may be stopped by the first serious competitor. Navicache and its ilk are not serious competitors. Yahoo or Google may well be.

 

This is where innovators and first-to-market leaders get confused. Huge immediate success (and Groundspeak's achievements in less than ten years qualifies as that, though it may not appear to be very immediate to those who have busted their fanny for years to build it!) does not imply that that success is sustainable... note the known business cycle where an innovator brings a product or service to market, ramps up rapidly to accomodate a clamoring market, incurs huge debt and operarates on a shoe-string trying to better the product or service, and just as they get it right someone with deep pockets comes in and takes their football away.

 

You see it all the time - the developer makes the innovation and development investment and, once stable and potentially profitable, the savvy investor enters the market for far less investment and buys them out or simply drives them right out of the market. Microsoft and British Petroleum are examples of market leaders expert in capitalizing on other's investment and innovation in just this way.

 

From my limited outside view, it appears that Groundspeak has benefitted from some pretty unusual circumstances, from gaining control of the data and geocaching forum to being able to build a no-cost volunteer Reviewer community to run their business for them (one of the slickest moves I have ever seen, and the major reason no serious competitors exist today - their volunteer Reviewer community is worth many millions and may well be their biggest assett, and a competitor's biggest bar to entry in this market).

 

Now things appear relatively stable - the market for their service is proving a growth rate, Groundspeak is constantly improving its service, they have a loyal subscription base, and minimal overhead costs.

 

Appearances can be decieving, however, and that apparantly loyal subscription base may just be here because it's the best place to be at the moment - let a serious competitor come along that treats the customer with respect and we'll see how many are in fact loyal!

 

About now is when I expect a big-gun to step in - the hard work has been done, the concept and profit potential proven - anyone with deep pockets can ramp up and duplicate this service at almost a moments notice! Google, for example, could likely duplicate Groundspeak's current listing service in less than 90 days and simply walk off with the game, if they so desired.

 

I don't know Jeremy, never met the man, know nothing about him or his employed staff, but from the tone of some of his posts and the actions of some of his chosen volunteers I would guess that he thinks he's firmly in control... and is, at the moment. But when a serious competitor comes along, and I think it will, he may regret alienating so many of his customers with the 'it's my playground, I will do as I like" attitude that he and some Reviewers and Moderators perpetrate.

 

In my 38 years in business I have never seen a market leader succeed by belittling the customer. Maybe Groundspeak can, who knows?

 

Frankly, I like what we have now, I think Groundspeak staff and volunteers are doing a bang-up job, so don't let my acknowledgement of the business cycle be interpreted as criticism, it's more of a cautionary tale. I would like to think that if a real competitor comes along they'd fail, that we'd all stay here. That's not very likely, however, without a more warm and welcoming inclusive environment being developed here.

 

When someone with money, server capacity and a coding staff comes along and starts a listing site that reincarnates moving caches, locationless, virtuals and pocket caches I think they will have a huge head start up the ladder. Ten or so full-time minimally-paid employees could likely replace the entire volunteer Revieweing community. Giving back services the community valued would allow them to compete even at higher subscription rates.

 

It could happen... and I am sure someone will try! I hope that I am wrong and Groundspeak can withstand the competition.

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About now is when I expect a big-gun to step in - the hard work has been done, the concept and profit potential proven - anyone with deep pockets can ramp up and duplicate this service at almost a moments notice! Google, for example, could likely duplicate Groundspeak's current listing service in less than 90 days and simply walk off with the game, if they so desired.

 

From the front page:

There are 298512 active caches in 222 countries.

In the last 7 days, there have been 208017 new logs written by 33932 account holders.

 

So, in a period less than 90 days, Google's front page could say the same thing, or better?

 

:laughing:

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In my 38 years in business I have never seen a market leader succeed by belittling the customer. Maybe Groundspeak can, who knows?

 

 

Your business analysis is spot on; however...

 

Regarding the extracted quote, you're missing the mark. The forums are a minuscule part of Geocaching. Most geocachers don't participate, and very, very few ever get the rough edge of Jeremy's tongue. And there are lots of businesses that succeed very well in spite of treating certain customers pretty harshly. Bars employ bouncers to keep rowdy patrons civil, and, if need be, throw them out. That's the role of the mods in these forums. Considering the alternative--an unmoderated free-for-all--the mods are a plus.

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"Don't you know who I am? I'm the Juggernaut, babe!" -- Groundspeak

 

Juggernaught implies that something has built momentum and is almost impossible to stop. Groundspeak's lead and momentum can and may be stopped by the first serious competitor. Navicache and its ilk are not serious competitors. Yahoo or Google may well be.

 

This is where innovators and first-to-market leaders get confused. Huge immediate success (and Groundspeak's achievements in less than ten years qualifies as that, though it may not appear to be very immediate to those who have busted their fanny for years to build it!) does not imply that that success is sustainable... note the known business cycle where an innovator brings a product or service to market, ramps up rapidly to accomodate a clamoring market, incurs huge debt and operarates on a shoe-string trying to better the product or service, and just as they get it right someone with deep pockets comes in and takes their football away.

 

You see it all the time - the developer makes the innovation and development investment and, once stable and potentially profitable, the savvy investor enters the market for far less investment and buys them out or simply drives them right out of the market. Microsoft and British Petroleum are examples of market leaders expert in capitalizing on other's investment and innovation in just this way.

 

From my limited outside view, it appears that Groundspeak has benefitted from some pretty unusual circumstances, from gaining control of the data and geocaching forum to being able to build a no-cost volunteer Reviewer community to run their business for them (one of the slickest moves I have ever seen, and the major reason no serious competitors exist today - their volunteer Reviewer community is worth many millions and may well be their biggest assett, and a competitor's biggest bar to entry in this market).

 

Now things appear relatively stable - the market for their service is proving a growth rate, Groundspeak is constantly improving its service, they have a loyal subscription base, and minimal overhead costs.

 

Appearances can be decieving, however, and that apparantly loyal subscription base may just be here because it's the best place to be at the moment - let a serious competitor come along that treats the customer with respect and we'll see how many are in fact loyal!

 

About now is when I expect a big-gun to step in - the hard work has been done, the concept and profit potential proven - anyone with deep pockets can ramp up and duplicate this service at almost a moments notice! Google, for example, could likely duplicate Groundspeak's current listing service in less than 90 days and simply walk off with the game, if they so desired.

 

I don't know Jeremy, never met the man, know nothing about him or his employed staff, but from the tone of some of his posts and the actions of some of his chosen volunteers I would guess that he thinks he's firmly in control... and is, at the moment. But when a serious competitor comes along, and I think it will, he may regret alienating so many of his customers with the 'it's my playground, I will do as I like" attitude that he and some Reviewers and Moderators perpetrate.

 

In my 38 years in business I have never seen a market leader succeed by belittling the customer. Maybe Groundspeak can, who knows?

 

Frankly, I like what we have now, I think Groundspeak staff and volunteers are doing a bang-up job, so don't let my acknowledgement of the business cycle be interpreted as criticism, it's more of a cautionary tale. I would like to think that if a real competitor comes along they'd fail, that we'd all stay here. That's not very likely, however, without a more warm and welcoming inclusive environment being developed here.

 

When someone with money, server capacity and a coding staff comes along and starts a listing site that reincarnates moving caches, locationless, virtuals and pocket caches I think they will have a huge head start up the ladder. Ten or so full-time minimally-paid employees could likely replace the entire volunteer Revieweing community. Giving back services the community valued would allow them to compete even at higher subscription rates.

 

It could happen... and I am sure someone will try! I hope that I am wrong and Groundspeak can withstand the competition.

I've never figured out why people keep calling Dr. Laura when they know that she's just going to belittle them and put them down. But they keep calling! Jeremy's mild next to her. :laughing: And funny, too.

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In my 38 years in business I have never seen a market leader succeed by belittling the customer.

 

You've never dealt with Computer Associates.

 

LOL - Actually, I have, extensively! I implemented their CA-Sort on mini-computers and later their AllFusion Life Cycle Management, Harvest Change Manager and Advantage Data Management and Application Development tools in mainframe and distributed environments in the State of Alabama, BellSouth and UPS, among others.

 

Never once did Charles Wang or Sanjay Kumar come into their support forum and take a shot at anyone!

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About now is when I expect a big-gun to step in - the hard work has been done, the concept and profit potential proven - anyone with deep pockets can ramp up and duplicate this service at almost a moments notice! Google, for example, could likely duplicate Groundspeak's current listing service in less than 90 days and simply walk off with the game, if they so desired.

 

From the front page:

There are 298512 active caches in 222 countries.

In the last 7 days, there have been 208017 new logs written by 33932 account holders.

 

So, in a period less than 90 days, Google's front page could say the same thing, or better?

 

:laughing:

 

Nope, not what I said - I said that once a product or service is created it is easy to duplicate - Google, for example, could stand up a listing service that rivals Groundspeak's capability quickly - I did not say that they could get the customers!

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I really didn't mean that to be an attack on Jeremy or Groundspeak - I started out answering the post above mine, maybe I didn't word it well and got off-track. Sorry. Really - no offense meant.

 

Things like not allowing a geocaching event to be part of another event, the banning of certain types of caches that had a following, allowing so much bashing and angst in the forums, that sort of stuff is more what I had in mind when I say Groundspeak isn't the most warm and welcoming. I have been to three GeoWoodStocks, the MidwestGeoBash and dozens of smaller events, and other than a few hats and maybe Reviewers and employees attending can't see that Groundspeak does much to actually interact with and support their customer base. Perhaps they do and I've just not noticed.

 

To my mind TPTB want Groundspeak run their way, instead of how the customer base wants it. That means the customers will be shopping for someone that will give them what they want when and if it appears.

 

That's what I was trying to say, that these things leave the door open for someone with the ability and resources to stand up a competitive listing site and have an immediate base, something Groundspeak could prevent or at least reduce by building more loyalty to and with its customers.

 

As far as the forums representing geocaching, fortunately, they do not. I know hundreds of cachers and rarely see but one or two of them in here. The forums are, however, the public face of Groundspeak - something quite different.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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Jeremy isn't Hitler. He's a website owner that has set down guidelines and recruited people to help him maintain those guidelines. This is his sandbox. Play by his rules or go someplace else.

 

I get tired of people that complain about this site because they don't agree with how it's run. If you can make a better site...knock yourself out. You won't be the first to try or probably the last. This site has survived and is the top site for caching because of management, dedication, hard work, and the ability to operate for the majority rather than the minority.

 

The site isn't perfect, and isn't run by perfect people. It is however run by people that do what they think is best for the community overall.

 

I also wish the Moderaters could post here because you don't have a clue as to what they go through for little or no reward at all. These are your fellow cachers that have dedicated their time to make this an enjoyable experience for all. They have crawled out on a limb trying to good and hoping the malcontent doesn't saw it off behind them.

 

I could say more...but I would get in trouble for attacking. However I will accept PM's from anyone that disagrees with me. There you can say what you want just between us.

 

El Diablo

 

Thanks for saying that El Diablo. People can't leave well enough alone. The "proposed" 360 coin was not cool, and the picture of the squirrel was inappropriate. Children may not understand the word Cojones but they can sure see a picture.

 

I applaud the way it has been handled and I think it's time to move on!

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I said that once a product or service is created it is easy to duplicate - Google, for example, could stand up a listing service that rivals Groundspeak's capability quickly - I did not say that they could get the customers!
Any good programmer with a website could build a site with great capability. That would not make them competitive because they wouldn't have the caches listed.
... I have been to three GeoWoodStocks, the MidwestGeoBash and dozens of smaller events, and other than a few hats and maybe Reviewers and employees attending can't see that Groundspeak does much to actually interact with and support their customer base. Perhaps they do and I've just not noticed.
I've noticed. When I statred playing, the site had really good functionality. It would remember where I lived and what caches I'd found. It would give me a list of caches that I could find in my area. It was great.

 

Now it's even better. Jeremy and team have worked hard to continually provide better and more functionality. Heck, he even sends me emails of the caches I am interested in finding so all I have to do is dump them into my PDA and GPSr. He went further and gave me a way to quickly identify caches along a route. However, I have yet to see him at an event. Big deal. :laughing:

To my mind TPTB want Groundspeak run their way, instead of how the customer base wants it.
I can't agree with that. TPTB have had to make difficult decisions about the direction of their company. Those decisions pleased some and displeased some. That's why they are called 'difficult'.
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As far as the forums representing geocaching, fortunately, they do not. I know hundreds of cachers and rarely see but one or two of them in here. The forums are, however, the public face of Groundspeak - something quite different.

This last paragraph doesn't make sense. If only a single-digit percentage of cachers ever come into the forums, how can the forums be "the public face of Groundspeak"?

 

On the contrary, I would think the main page at geocaching.com is the public face.

 

Edit for clarity.

Edited by Lil Devil
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Thanks for saying that El Diablo. People can't leave well enough alone. The "proposed" 360 coin was not cool, and the picture of the squirrel was inappropriate. Children may not understand the word Cojones but they can sure see a picture.

 

I applaud the way it has been handled and I think it's time to move on!

 

It's my guess that 50% of the child population have seen Cojones before. Being afraid of squirrels and their stash sounds a bit protective. How many kids have dogs? And they never noticed the dangling participles?

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As far as the forums representing geocaching, fortunately, they do not. I know hundreds of cachers and rarely see but one or two of them in here. The forums are, however, the public face of Groundspeak - something quite different.

This last paragraph doesn't make sense. If only a single-digit percentage of cachers ever come into the forums, how can the forums be "the public face of Groundspeak"?

 

On the contrary, I would think the main page at geocaching.com is the public face.

 

Edit for clarity.

 

You are right, it is. I tend to get focused on my agenda! Of course the home page is the public face most people see, I guess I was trying to say that the forums are the publics only mode of actually interfacing and interacting with Groundspeak. Or something. I'll shut up now before this hole gets any deeper!

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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This topic is starting to drift.

 

Yes the mods should be consistent in what they allow/disallow. I've seen stuff shut down for seemingly mild reasons. I've see stuff that should've been shut down and wasn't.

 

Yes, this forum is the public face of the company. ANY page that a user can get to from the home page is the public face of the company. And forums ARE where many folks learn about the hobby, though they may not get accounts. It's called lurking.

 

And yes, Jeremy should probably bite his tongue or curb his tone when responding to things. He is a visible representative of his company. I can't comment on forums for my company (or about my company) for the same reasons. A professional demeanor must be maintained in public. Basically, any post he makes here, should be written as a tech support response. Polite, to the point, and thanking them for their feedback (if he won't use an idea, should seldom be commented on)).

 

In that same vein, folks have lots of ideas for games using GPS. Geocaching can mean a can with a logbook in the woods, or it can be an appellation on a whole series of GPS games. When new game ideas come out, it is wise to see what works, and incorporate those game ideas as new entries in the system. Refusing to consider them makes the company look narrow minded, and opens the door to other sites taking over some day.

 

It would take some work to design a database to handle the size of the data, and types of new game ideas that might come along, and handle the load. It would take a lot of work to build a nice interface (web site design is an art). But it could be done. And strip mining the gc.com database is also doable. Heck, a site that unifies ALL GPS games would be pretty handy. Getting users is the trick, in other busineses, it's all about replicating existing service, supplying more, and taking over.

 

I think just about everything's been said.

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Jeremy isn't Hitler. He's a website owner that has set down guidelines and recruited people to help him maintain those guidelines. This is his sandbox. Play by his rules or go someplace else.

 

I get tired of people that complain about this site because they don't agree with how it's run. If you can make a better site...knock yourself out. You won't be the first to try or probably the last. This site has survived and is the top site for caching because of management, dedication, hard work, and the ability to operate for the majority rather than the minority.

 

The site isn't perfect, and isn't run by perfect people. It is however run by people that do what they think is best for the community overall.

 

I also wish the Moderaters could post here because you don't have a clue as to what they go through for little or no reward at all. These are your fellow cachers that have dedicated their time to make this an enjoyable experience for all. They have crawled out on a limb trying to good and hoping the malcontent doesn't saw it off behind them.

 

I could say more...but I would get in trouble for attacking. However I will accept PM's from anyone that disagrees with me. There you can say what you want just between us.

 

El Diablo

 

Thanks for saying that El Diablo. People can't leave well enough alone. The "proposed" 360 coin was not cool, and the picture of the squirrel was inappropriate. Children may not understand the word Cojones but they can sure see a picture.

 

I applaud the way it has been handled and I think it's time to move on!

 

Ditto that! The coin idea sounds rediculous and would not be appropriate to put out in circulation. I'm an adult and i have to tolerate rudeness, crudeness, and just plain old bad morality from others while dealing with daily life. Geocaching is a family oriented activity and GC.com is a family oriented site. I don't want or expect to see it here! :laughing:

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....I could say more...but I would get in trouble for attacking. However I will accept PM's from anyone that disagrees with me. There you can say what you want just between us....

 

It doesn't work that way. PM's can also get you banned from the forums.

 

As for this site, it does have the right to censor, delete, ban in any way it see's fit. That doesn't make it the right thing, the best thing, or even a moderatly good thing. It's also not automaticly a bad thing. We users have to look at what's going on and make up our minds. This site has to look at what it want's to be when it grows up and what kind of reputation it's going to have. Hopefully they make the right decisions.

 

That it will be discussed in the forums or out of them, one way or the other helps at least make them think a little about things. That's a good thing. :laughing:

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<snip>

 

Ditto that! The coin idea sounds rediculous and would not be appropriate to put out in circulation. I'm an adult and i have to tolerate rudeness, crudeness, and just plain old bad morality from others while dealing with daily life. Geocaching is a family oriented activity and GC.com is a family oriented site. I don't want or expect to see it here! :laughing:

 

Actually, I'm kinda hoping Team 360 does make one. Just because it's not PC doesn't make it immoral. But I won't climb any further onto that soapbox.

 

People are too sensitive, that's all.

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Any good programmer with a website could build a site with great capability. That would not make them competitive because they wouldn't have the caches listed.

 

From the seeker's point of view, I still don't understand this emphasis on quantity.

If there were 10 different listing services, each with 3 caches in my area, then I'd go seek all 30 of them.

 

I have sought caches on 3 different listing services now. Why the brand name loyalty?

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Any good programmer with a website could build a site with great capability. That would not make them competitive because they wouldn't have the caches listed.

 

From the seeker's point of view, I still don't understand this emphasis on quantity.

If there were 10 different listing services, each with 3 caches in my area, then I'd go seek all 30 of them.

 

I have sought caches on 3 different listing services now. Why the brand name loyalty?

 

Well, that was sorta my point - as cachers we want competition, we want multiple listing sites that have to cater to us to stay in business. We want to be able to take our football and go away if we feel unwanted or mistreated.

 

Groundspeak (I assume), like any other business, wants just the opposite. No business owner in their right minds wants competition, no matter how much free-market capitalism is touted. If I own a business I want to own the market. I want to quash any competition that raises it's ugly head. I don't want my customers to be able to leave at will, or even to want to.

 

That's the very heart of my previous contention - right now there is no viable competition. What will happen when there is?

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I kind of like it when Jeremy pops in and pops off. It makes me feel like I'm in at the ground level of Microsoft. Please don't ban me for comparing you to Bill Gates, J-money! (and please don't shut off my computer for talking ill of Microsoft, Billy G!)

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This site has to look at what it want's to be when it grows up and what kind of reputation it's going to have. Hopefully they make the right decisions.

 

If geocaching were to grow up and become "Main Stream," the smart decision (don't know 'bout right) would be to sell to the highest bidder and laugh all the way to the bank, 'cuz this whole shootin' match wouldn't be worth the hassle or the team of lawers they'd need to back it up. The general public will eff up a free lunch.... Better to cut and run.

 

Honestly, in some cases, I think we might be better served were that to happen, BUT I'd rather stick with the devil I know. :laughing:

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The OP emails me:

 

You have driven my original topic way off course. I would appreciate it if you would say as much in my thread, and then steer back the topic to where it should be. And apologize for trying to hijack my thread.

 

Okay, I thought the title was Forum Censorship, and the discusion that followed has directly to do with that, and I didn't start the course variation, so I don't think *I* drove your topic off course or tried to hijack it, but hey, I am easy - I apologize anyway.

 

Posters, set a course for the original topic!

 

Happy?

 

Ed Out

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That's the very heart of my previous contention - right now there is no viable competition. What will happen when there is?

 

Yeah, but that's kind of my point: There is viable competition! What constitutes viable? If a service has 3 caches in my area, I'll go find them. As a seeker, that's a viable service.

 

As a hider, it depends on how much traffic you want, I guess. But there's no reason I can't list on one site, and seek on another. Or list on several sites for different kinds of caches.

Edited by headybrew
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The OP emails me:

 

You have driven my original topic way off course. I would appreciate it if you would say as much in my thread, and then steer back the topic to where it should be. And apologize for trying to hijack my thread.

 

Okay, I thought the title was Forum Censorship, and the discusion that followed has directly to do with that, and I didn't start the course variation, so I don't think *I* drove your topic off course or tried to hijack it, but hey, I am easy - I apologize anyway.

 

Posters, set a course for the original topic!

 

Happy?

 

Ed Out

 

Oops. Sorry.

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....I could say more...but I would get in trouble for attacking. However I will accept PM's from anyone that disagrees with me. There you can say what you want just between us....

 

It doesn't work that way. PM's can also get you banned from the forums.

 

As for this site, it does have the right to censor, delete, ban in any way it see's fit. That doesn't make it the right thing, the best thing, or even a moderatly good thing. It's also not automaticly a bad thing. We users have to look at what's going on and make up our minds. This site has to look at what it want's to be when it grows up and what kind of reputation it's going to have. Hopefully they make the right decisions.

 

That it will be discussed in the forums or out of them, one way or the other helps at least make them think a little about things. That's a good thing. :laughing:

 

RK you know you can say anything to me in a PM and it will be between us.

 

El Diablo

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All I can add is that there really is a big difference in reading the written word "cojones" and seeing an actual picture of "cojones'. (I've seen the pic before and thought it was, uh, tacky. Perhaps not having any cojones myself predisposes me to be disgusted by them :laughing: )

 

Anyway, a picture is worth a thousand words, eh?

 

That's funny! It always surprises me when I realize I have placed a gender to someone's Geo-Nick, and then find out I am wrong!

 

I don't know why I made the assumption with you, but until I read this post, I didn't know you were a woman. (Well, truth be told, after the post, you still could have been a eunich, but I clicked to your webpage and saw your name. :laughing: )

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OK, maybe instead of blindly popping (spouting, fuming, erupting) off like we have a tendancy to do, maybe folks should READ THE STINKING GUIDELINES!

 

"Groundspeak Forum Guidelines

 

The goal of the Groundspeak Forum is to promote the activity of Geocaching and GPS Usage. It is an open forum sponsored by Groundspeak Inc. for discussing all aspects of Geocaching, Benchmark hunting, GPS Usage and Groundspeak related GPS Gaming.

 

There are certain guidelines you should be aware of before you post messages to this Discussion Forum. It is important there are some basic guidelines of conduct. While most people are courteous and polite; there are some individuals that choose to behave in a disrespectful and irresponsible manner. Unlike other public discussion boards, Groundspeak will take appropriate steps to keep our discussion in line with these guidelines and with good taste.

 

In general we will leave it to you the community, to police yourselves. Treat others with respect. Remember that this is a public venue read by many people spanning all walks of life. If you question a post please use the ‘report this post’ icon in the lower right hand corner.

 

Please understand that we are not attempting to censor any messages or opinions posted, but this is a moderated discussion forum. We simply want to preserve the spirit of an open, interactive discussion without offending participants. This means that we (Groundspeak and the volunteers for Groundspeak) reserve the right to edit/remove inappropriate messages, or to lock a discussion thread. Before taking any of these actions, a moderator will attempt to steer the discussion back to the topic, if this is possible and appropriate. The additional step of editing or deleting a post will only be taken in appropriate circumstances; again, the intent is not to censor legitimate discussion or to change the meaning of any post. If we edit a post and you do not like the changes please feel free to notify us and we will delete your post. Examples of posts that may be edited or deleted include posts containing profanity, chain letter and other spam postings, posts that disclose the tracking number codes for Groundspeak travel bugs or posts that reveal private information about another community member. Other examples are discussed in the guidelines below.

 

Some things to keep in mind when posting:

 

Respect: Respect the guidelines for forum usage, and site usage. Respect Groundspeak, its employees, volunteers, yourself, fellow community members, and guests on these boards. Whether a community member has one post or 5,000 posts, they deserve the same respect.

 

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Private Discussions: Sometimes, a discussion thread strays off into a friendly dialogue or a heated debate among a very small number of users. For these exchanges, use the private discussion feature that is provided through the Groundspeak forums, or the Geocaching.com e-mail system. Public forum posts should be reserved for matters of interest to the general community.

 

Posting Messages: Posting the same message to many topics or boards is considered spam. Duplicate messages will be deleted or consolidated by our moderators. Please do your best to post new topics to the appropriate forum board, moderators will move topics that are posted inappropriately.

 

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Classifieds advertising is permitted in the ‘GPS Garage Sale’ Forum. (Geocaching.com is not involved in these transactions) Abuse of this forum will be not be tolerated.

 

About our Moderators: Forum Moderators are community volunteers that give up their time to help build a better community. They will assist with focusing topics and enforcing guidelines. They have the ability to edit/delete posts, to move, close or delete topics, and to temporarily moderate users’ posts. Our moderators are equipped with Kevlar flak jackets and an unlimited supply of admin bricks. Do not attempt to engage them in direct combat."

 

It's kinda like the noob thread (getting started) where the same questions pop up every week and noone takes the time to read the stickies at the top, Which should read "LOOK HERE FIRST STUPID!!!"

 

done

sorry

long day at work and low tolerance for fools today :laughing::laughing:

 

nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented or motivated fool.

Edited by Jhwk
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And yes, Jeremy should probably bite his tongue or curb his tone when responding to things. He is a visible representative of his company. I can't comment on forums for my company (or about my company) for the same reasons. A professional demeanor must be maintained in public. Basically, any post he makes here, should be written as a tech support response. Polite, to the point, and thanking them for their feedback (if he won't use an idea, should seldom be commented on)).

 

 

Ugg. I'm glad I don't work at your company.

 

I'm passionate about what I do. I'd hope the same for any company. You don't have to be a cardboard cutout you know.

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And yes, Jeremy should probably bite his tongue or curb his tone when responding to things. He is a visible representative of his company. I can't comment on forums for my company (or about my company) for the same reasons. A professional demeanor must be maintained in public. Basically, any post he makes here, should be written as a tech support response. Polite, to the point, and thanking them for their feedback (if he won't use an idea, should seldom be commented on)).

 

 

Ugg. I'm glad I don't work at your company.

 

I'm passionate about what I do. I'd hope the same for any company. You don't have to be a cardboard cutout you know.

 

Jeremy,

 

Your website is the 800 pound gorilla of cache listing sites, because you consistantly change and improve.

 

The majority of your customers never experience your passion quite like we do here in the forums.

 

I've said this before...... Active geocachers are now equal in number to that of a large town, or a small city. YOU are the Mayor of Geocaching Town like it or not. AS SUCH, you should be above using sarcasm and derision toward the citizens of Geocaching Town for the common good.

 

I believe THAT is what Janx was trying to communicate and I agree.

Edited by Snoogans
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I've said this before...... Active geocachers are now equal in number to that of a large town, or a small city. YOU are the Mayor of Geocaching Town like it or not. AS SUCH, you should be above using sarcasm and derision toward the citizens of Geocaching Town for the common good.

 

 

And here I thought I've been the kindler gentler Jeremy lately. I gotta fire my image consultant.

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I've said this before...... Active geocachers are now equal in number to that of a large town, or a small city. YOU are the Mayor of Geocaching Town like it or not. AS SUCH, you should be above using sarcasm and derision toward the citizens of Geocaching Town for the common good.

 

 

And here I thought I've been the kindler gentler Jeremy lately. I gotta fire my image consultant.

You need to add to your sigline, "Mayor of Geocachingburg". :laughing: Hmmm...that's a mouthfull. How 'bout, "Geoburg". I like that. :laughing:

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And yes, Jeremy should probably bite his tongue or curb his tone when responding to things. He is a visible representative of his company. I can't comment on forums for my company (or about my company) for the same reasons. A professional demeanor must be maintained in public. Basically, any post he makes here, should be written as a tech support response. Polite, to the point, and thanking them for their feedback (if he won't use an idea, should seldom be commented on)).

 

 

Ugg. I'm glad I don't work at your company.

 

I'm passionate about what I do. I'd hope the same for any company. You don't have to be a cardboard cutout you know.

 

Jeremy,

 

Your website is the 800 pound gorilla of cache listing sites, because you consistantly change and improve.

 

The majority of your customers never experience your passion quite like we do here in the forums.

 

I've said this before...... Active geocachers are now equal in number to that of a large town, or a small city. YOU are the Mayor of Geocaching Town like it or not. AS SUCH, you should be above using sarcasm and derision toward the citizens of Geocaching Town for the common good.

 

I believe THAT is what Janx was trying to communicate and I agree.

 

 

I don't know if you really want to tell Jeremy to act like, "The Mayor of Geocaching Town."

 

Just last month at our city council meeting, a lady was voicing a complaint to the mayor. He told her to "Go home and clean your house."

 

:laughing:

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