Another 'rant'

[+Happy Humphrey]

I don't believe it takes any more skill to hide a 35mm film pot than it does to satisfactorily hide a regular size ammo can. In the woodland locations that I've been decrying, it takes considerably less. True, there are some very skillfully hidden urban micros, but wouldn't it take even more skill to hide a regular cache in the same location?

Perhaps this is the problem with the micros you've been encountering. Firstly, they appear to all be 35mm film containers, which are not the best micro containers when used unmodified. Secondly, they haven't been hidden with skill so you don't enjoy them. It's easy enough in a woodland location to just chuck a tupperware container in a shrub and bung some sticks on top. Much harder to hide a tiny box so that it's findable without a frustrating random search, but can't be seen by muggles.

 

I think that you're demonstrating how hard it is to hide a micro by your frustration with the ones you've tried.

 

Perhaps we need a "how to hide a micro" sticky thread!

 

I say "setting" rather than "hiding", because the hide may be OK but could be spoilt if the cache description isn't well thought out.

 

Surely this applies to all caches, not just micros?

Yes, but it applies more to micros, as the description needs to give the location more precisely without actually giving away the hide technique. For instance, if it's hidden inside a log, or camouflaged and attached to a tree, or hanging inside a pole (typical countryside micros) - you have to say exactly which log, tree or pole to give people a fair chance of finding it. With an ammo box, the GPS coordinates are going to be enough so you can get away without taking so much care.

 

HH

[+Jango & Boba Fett]

Perhaps we need a "how to hide a micro" sticky thread!

Excellent idea, though to be fair a "cache etiquette" thread with positve suggestions,examples of etc might be more usefull. I'm aware that there are other "no sticky" threads in the General Geocaching Discusions areas but you have to go and hunt these down.

 

IMHO though to work any how to hide a cache sticky thread would have to be astrictly no spitting zone and all the llamas would have to accept that any rants posted in there would be swiftly deleted. Ah that brobably means we'd get more rant threads, or would it?

 

[+bhodisatva]

Whilst writing a "Cache placement etiquette" thread would someone also like to write a "trading etiquette" thread too, both are issues which need to be addressed IMHO.

[+Icenians]

Why not make your feeling known? The game is geoCACHING and a small box with nothing but a log is minimally more than a virtual.

Whereas am ammo can half full of useless and broken tat is infinitely more than a virtual?, sorry beg to differ. As i've already stated, i would rather find a well hidden and thought out micro than an ammo can bunged just anywhere because it could be, for some people it's the thrill of the hunt rather than what they might be able to swop that's the attraction, everyone plays the game differently, don't denigrate others just because you want to play it your way..

 

Numbers may well be important to you but there are not important to everyone.

Very true, just as trading useless bits of junk isn't important to everyone, again it's how the individual wants to play the game.

 

The biggest proplem with micro's is that you cannot get TB's in most of them.

Simple solution then, go find a cache that will accept the size TB that you want to place in it. TB's managed to move around before people started placing micros so really that's an invalid argument.

 

The prolification of micros is probably the biggest change I have noticed since returning to caching. I currently carry a TB that will not fit into most of the caches I have visited recently, that are anywhere near it's goal. I'm with Pharsee on this one. There are way too many micros. Cachers really should try for quality of hide.

Quality of hide or capacity? i really think you need to define this statement better. I've visited several "quality" ammo cans, i've visited several "quality" micros, i've also visited many "large capacity" caches that if truth be known wouldn't suffer from being exchanged for micros, why? because of the crap they seem to attract in trade items, increasing the cache container size doesn't neccessary follow that the quality of the cache will rise. Just imagine if everyone really did practice cache in trash out - most ammo cans would be devoid of any trade items whatsoever as the majority of times trades have only ended up in the cache because the "trader" would be too embarrassed to put the stuff into their own bin at home (Hmm, maybe that's a whole new idea for a "rant" thread, unless of course it's been done before).

 

Possibly you are reading a little too much into my reply. I obviously haven't lost the unfortunate trait to come across wrong in my abscence.

 

In my reply I was saying that

a. People should be able to make their feelings known. It can get very boring if too much is off limits in a forum like this.

 

b. I was trying to point out that the game is about hunting a cache. A cache is by it's very nature something that contains something and a log book is not what I would define as a cache.

 

c. Numbers are important, trading is important, the hunt is important, the location is important. The use of a traditional cache container gives more opportunity of all of these important aspects to the game to be met. A micro usually illiminates the trading part and the TB movement part.

 

Quality is about just that quality. It can mean many things. A quality location needs any kind of cache as its purpose is to bring you there. A quality puzzle needs imagination and containers that suit the puzzle. A quality hide may be just that. A great hidey hole that determines the size of the cache.

 

I'm not disputing that quality micros exist nor that crap ammo tins exist. Only last week I visited a very well hidden micro. Effort had gone into it but the hide was simply for the sake of the hide. There was nothing notable about the location itself and so the cache hide was the point. I also visited fairly soso normal caches but the location was a great eye opener to me.

 

There is obviously a place for micros. But in the last 3 years there seems to have been a great increase in lame duck micros that would probably have been fairly lame normal caches as well. At least a normal cache in a location that can support it give those that have other important aspects to the game than numbers to play.

[+Johnmelad]

Could Some micros be put out by people who can't afford to fill an ammo box etc? Just a thought

Edited August 9, 2006 by Johnmelad

[+t.a.folk]

 

 

b. I was trying to point out that the game is about hunting a cache. A cache is by it's very nature something that contains something and a log book is not what I would define as a cache.

 

 

 

I got told by a non-cacher that the definition of the word "cache" is "to hide"

and our(old) French /English dictionary gives the definition n.f. "hiding place" .

[+Kitty Hawk]

Could Some micros be put out by people who can't afford to fill an ammo box etc? Just a thought

 

A point I noted above, but poverty is no excuse for placing a lame micro - even someone on a shoestring can place a good micro.

[+currykev]

Could Some micros be put out by people who can't afford to fill an ammo box etc? Just a thought

 

Firstly,I have "loads of money"...and I have "loads of money" because I put out cheap micros rather than expensive ammos!

 

Secondly,Johnmelad,now that I can see a true picture of yourself.... I'm surprised you haven't changed your name too.

[+jerryo]

I used to dislike micros but as they are all optional and I've never seen one in a flamin' plastic bag, I quite like some of them now.

[+Father Jack]

for me its the walk to the cache that I enjoy, granted caches like GCVHNV, GCKW6C or GCVFP5 could of been ammo cans but that would spoil the fun of finding the cache.

[markandlynn]

I will say that all of the micros we found hidden by HH in the last two weeks were of a very high quality even the kids started looking forward to finding these small and micro caches which is some feat.

One of our favourite caches is River Rubbings yet another micro.

I believe the "must clear my area" can lead to frustration with microspew Personally we tend to ignore the majority and will do one on our way back home just to keep clearing them up.

Micro spew will unfortunatley reach USA levels eventually as more places become occupied by caches.

[+Kelsborrow Wayfinders]

While I agree that there are a lot of excellent micros out there (one of my favourite caches is a micro) in my experience there is a much higher proportion of useless micros compared with traditionals. However my main concern is the impact they have on new cachers. When describing geocaching to other people how many say it is the art of finding a tupperware container and then exchanging items? I would suggest that most of the people who have posted on here are experienced cachers and know how to ignore micros. However a new cacher would probably look for their nearest cache at the first attempt and there is an increased chance that this would be a micro. Certainly if some of the recent micros I have done had been my first then I would probably have had second thoughts about continuing. It seems to me that a lot of micros these days are placed purely for numbers and I wonder about the impact on newcomers.

[+Happy Humphrey]

in my experience there is a much higher proportion of useless micros compared with traditionals. However my main concern is the impact they have on new cachers. ...

It seems to me that a lot of micros these days are placed purely for numbers and I wonder about the impact on newcomers.

What if the newcomer chooses a multicache and find that it takes too long? Or a really difficult cache that they can't find at all? Perhaps that will also put them off, but I'm sure you won't be concerned about those caches.

 

On the other hand, what if the newcomer isn't like you and he/she is tickled pink to find a craftily-hidden micro at the back of a car park? Or what if the newbie team are attracted to the idea of spending all day buzzing around the area finding easy micros and counting up the numbers?

 

What is a "useless" micro, anyway (aren't all caches more or less useless)?. I've never found one yet. I suspect that if you gave a few examples, there would be some geocachers that enjoyed finding them (at least a little bit!). If there are any that are really that bad, a quick glance at the recent logs would be enough to put you off.

 

HH

[+The Bolas Heathens]

Caching is different things to different people - I'm not convinced all this talk has any merit whatsoever. Some cachers like finding micros and other's do not. There is no rule that you have to find every cache out there so it's a simple matter of choosing which caches you want to do selectively if you need to .

 

The UK is a big place and there is plenty of space for all types of caches as long as the cache setters think considerately of other cache setters so they do not bag all the prime locations with badly thought out caches that could otherwise have been made very special with a well thought out cache.

 

We don't like micro's much ourselves and prefer a larger cache but having just been in the USA for two weeks we've done a LOT of micros recently.

 

The worst type are the Wal-Mart car park ones as you know they will be in the place they "always" are (under the skirt of a lamp post in the car park) and so the challenge of the find is actually finding a moment to retrieve the cache without anyone seeing you. After the fun of being stealthy at the first one or two of these it soon becomes tedious.

 

The micro's we did enjoy were on a power trail of 35-40 caches all strung out along three roads in the middle of nowhere. Yes, they were easy finds, but it was very satisfying from a numbers point of view and we saw some fantastic wildlife along the way which we really enjoyed. I know power trails are not for everyone but we'd be more than happy to see a few properly thought out ones using micro's (or whatever) in the UK. Obviously these may be in places more out of the way, where there is no real reason for a normal cache and I'd like to think the cache owner would be more than happy to archive one of the series if they got a reasonable request for the location from another cache setter (e.g. like the owner of this one in Florida states in small print on the cache page: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...c-35050ab5b1f2)

 

We also enjoyed the micro's where they were very well disguised and very tricky to find. There is a series of caches disguised as sprinkler heads in Florida. They are in flower beds in muggle dense areas where there are genuine sprinkler heads so they look totally natural to the eye. They took some finding (lots of mulch on the flower beds makes it tricky, along with the risk of Black Widow spiders, so a normal finger tip search is out of the question) and numerous visits but the feeling of satisfaction when finding one is very much worth the effort.

Edited August 14, 2006 by The Bolas Heathens

[markandlynn]

 

power trails are not for everyone but we'd be more than happy to see a few properly thought out ones using micro's (or whatever) in the UK.

 

I believe power trails are not allowed to be set anymore.

 

As has been said before you dont have to clear the area

[+Kelsborrow Wayfinders]

What if the newcomer chooses a multicache and find that it takes too long? Or a really difficult cache that they can't find at all? Perhaps that will also put them off, but I'm sure you won't be concerned about those caches.

 

On the other hand, what if the newcomer isn't like you and he/she is tickled pink to find a craftily-hidden micro at the back of a car park? Or what if the newbie team are attracted to the idea of spending all day buzzing around the area finding easy micros and counting up the numbers?

 

I can't disagree with the points you make and I'm not saying any method of caching is right or wrong. It has been proved in this thread that there are arguments for and against I was just trying to express a nagging feeling at the back of my mind and hoping that people would understand the general point I was trying to make. I could well be wrong, I was just trying to look at it from the viewpoint of a first timer who perhaps hasn't got the knowledge of an experienced cacher.

[+The Bolas Heathens]

I'm not saying they should be set, but would not be too upset if one or two were (I know we'd certainly look at them). If they obey the 0.1 mile rule then there's no reason for them not to be allowed. The one we did in Florida varied in distance between caches but was generally about 0.5 miles between caches and was great fun.

 

Totally agree about the you do not have to do all caches comment. Everyone plays this game differently and it's good to see a wide variety of caches and type of caches out there IMHO .

 

p.s. just read about your accident in the IOM - hope nobody got hurt

 

I believe power trails are not allowed to be set anymore.

Edited August 14, 2006 by The Bolas Heathens

[+Happy Humphrey]

Caching is different things to different people - I'm not convinced all this talk has any merit whatsoever. Some cachers like finding micros and other's do not. There is no rule that you have to find every cache out there so it's a simple matter of choosing which caches you want to do selectively if you need to .

I think that the discussion has merit, if only to make people think about the type of caches they like (or don't like), and why they are so annoying. If you hate micros so much that you feel the need to rant about them, it's only natural that someone will enquire whether you've tried just ignoring them, for instance .

 

I was just trying to express a nagging feeling at the back of my mind and hoping that people would understand the general point I was trying to make. I could well be wrong, I was just trying to look at it from the viewpoint of a first timer who perhaps hasn't got the knowledge of an experienced cacher.

Understood: and I wasn't trying to criticise you for making the point, which was an interesting one.

 

HH

 

I will say that all of the micros we found hidden by HH in the last two weeks were of a very high quality even the kids started looking forward to finding these small and micro caches which is some feat.

Thanks...!

[+The Wombles]

It's a challenge to hide the biggest cache possible at any location. My kids like caches big enough to contain toys and are reluctant to visit micros. This means less caching for me

 

I will just say the most visited cache in the UK is a micro.

.............. An urban setting where it would be extremely difficult to hide anything larger............

 

That's one of my micros and it's the biggest cache possible for the location [bTW, thanks to Pharisee for replacing it last year ].

 

............ middle of no-where= 5 gallon bucket (it could happen )........................

 

Got one of those too, it was a very satisfying hide and an extremely well visited cache two hundred yards from the M4.

 

A quick look in the excellent resource :- UK Stats

 

,and yes I know its all subjective , suggests that there isn't a micro in the top 28 most popular caches....

 

Perhaps messrs Hunter and Teasel will be intrigued into providing some further analysis

......

 

...................So is the No. 1 cache the one with the most valuable contents - or is it merely the biggest container? ....................

 

 

The No. 1 cache is also mine and it's got neither the most valuable contents or the biggest container. As HH observes, it is a challenge and I considered it essential to end in a decent sized ammo box. Whilst a huge container wasn't essential here, I believe that people wouldn't go to all that trouble for a micro.

 

In summary, I agree with many others here that there is a place for a micro but that it should be a second choice to a toy-sized cache.

 

Whilst I'm here, I'd just like to mention a virtual in the middle of an Army Firing Range on Salisbury Plain......